This Impeachment Initiative: Hurt or Help Trump in the 2020 Election
- The Minstrelposted 3 years ago
0I think it will help rather than hurt his chances of winning re-election. What do you think?
I think the majority of the American public can see what the Democrats are doing despite the propaganda being pushed by CNN, MSNBC, CBS, and ABC. To have only 90 percent and above negative coverage on President Trump over the last three years by these networks seems a little biased if you ask me. Yet, 51 percent of Americans do not want President Trump impeached. Again, a majority of America can see through all the deceptions and will make their voices known in 2020. Trump will win re-election! He will win it decisively!
I think the only thing that will matter to most this next election is how has Trump affected their lives. In the end, most look at how things are going in their own lives, their own homes. At this point even with all the crazy investigations and impeachment. Trump continues to work on some long-time problems. All is looking pretty dam good in the country. It makes me confident we have a president although very different than any we have ever had, one that is got the country on a better path. I am not willing to tear down his progress due to some not satisfied with the last election. He has proved to be a hard-working problem-solving President.
Yes, if you wish to ignore his effect on civility, honesty, and the Constitution. But then, these aren't very important qualities to some people.
You know what always gets me with the people on the left? These are people who looked the other way and rationalized their president getting a BJ in the oval office from a white house intern. Where were the women on the left against sexual harassment of women in the workplace? Their president lies under oath about it, loses his law license as well as lawsuits against him for sexual harassment and they have no idea he did anything wrong. Hillary incompetence gets military people killed in Benghazi, deletes 30,000 emails, has a private server she uses for secretary of state business and the left can't comprehend she did anything wrong.
Obama has at least half a dozen scandals and the media ignores them and the left rationalizes them.
So far the IG report showed we had FISA warrants based on false information from the FBI. At least 17 incidences of FBI competence.
The Russian conspiracy has been proven to be a hoax. The impeachment is a total hoax.
I think its interesting how Democrats commit real crimes and their side ignores it.
President Donald Trump does nothing wrong so they create one hoax after another to get him out of office.
What a bunch of double standard hypocrites. They are fun to laugh at when they try to defend their many hoaxes.Pssstt. Mike! Clinton was impeached 20 years ago. You didn't know any of us then so how do you know what we thought? Besides, it's actually possible for a reasonable person to agree with impeachment in one case but not another. That thought might come in handy some day if a Democrat does something impeachable.
Psssstt. PP The same people who defended Clinton are attacking President Donald Trump. I don't think they care there is no impeachable offense. There is just smoke, mirrors and a desire to get even for Clinton impeachment. This is nothing more than a personal vendetta.
That is called hypocrisy.
See, when I talk about people on the left, I'm talking about people at that time and not referring to anyone on HB at this time.And the same people who were defending Dubya are now defending Trump. WMDs and all....
You have summed it up in a nutshell... However, there will always be this sort of individual that uses little common sense, has an easier time just joining into a group that accepts just about anything if it suits their agenda. Groupthink is not new, it's just more contagious at this point.
Thank goodness this type is in the minority.
It's a long way to the election. At this point I couldn't guess.
- PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago0
I think very few people will be swayed in any direction by impeachment. Most people have firmly decided that either they won't tolerate a lying POS who abuses his presidential power and thinks he is above the law, or, they don't care if he is a lying POS who abuses presidential power and thinks he is above the law.
Either you think it's okay or you don't.No chance that there is a segment that doesn't think "he is a lying POS who abuses presidential power and thinks he is above the law."?
GAOh, sure, there are some people who think he is an honest man of sterling character (as opposed to a lying POS) who upholds the Constitution while complying with all laws of the United States (as opposed to thinking he is above the law).
Wilderness? Sharlee? Ken? Do you think so?
GA, I don't think even his supporters believe he is an honest man who cares about the Constitution and the rule of law. But,maybe I'm wrong and they will let us know.That wasn't an honest response Sandy. Of your to categories you gave the choices of believing "he is a lying POS who abuses presidential power and thinks he is above the law." and tolerating it, or those who won't tolerate it.
But, my question was really a rhetorical one. I understand that you cannot fathom anyone not seeing that "he is a lying POS who abuses presidential power and thinks he is above the law."
I do think there is a possibility that such a segment of voters exists.
GACan you find me one? Because every one of them I've talked to acknowledge that he lies, admit he is not of good character, and are aware of at least some of his unlawful activities (such as the charity fraud and the university fraud).
They don't care.Panther, the question remains, " why don't they care"? They cling to the man regardless of what he is accused of or what he has done.
How wise is it to give that kind of loyalty to any mere mortal?
The idea of " Trump haters" is an oxymoron, no different than my opinion regarding Nixon during the Watergate Affair. If you break the law or consistently operate in unethical territory, I am going to have problems regardless of who you are.The question is not "Why don't they care?", but why do some insist others "don't care" when they know that those others see worse in the other choices to be had? Millions of people voted for Trump, knowing he was not what they wanted but believing the alternative was worse. Yet here we see that "They don't care!" - why would anyone make such a foolish claim? It's like claiming that someone drove into the ditch because they didn't care if they wrecked their car and were injured, when the alternative was a head on collision with a truck.
That these people disagree that there was a truck coming does not mean that they cannot understand that others do see a truck. Perhaps the "don't care" applies to them, not those that accept Trump's faults because the alternative is much worse?So you do care if Trump abused his power and obstructed Congress? Or you simply believed he didn't?
That only makes sense if you had only two.options. Republicans started with 16 options and they chose Trump. At that point, there were four options: Trump, Clinton, Johnson, and Stein. Or, even a fifth option: none of the above.
However, I have forgiven the original vote for Trump, as it was reasonable to hope he would discard the worst of himself and focus on his work. What I cannot fathom, or forgive, is continuing support after all that Trump has done since.People vote with their wallet. Always have. Always will. The end justifies the means and all that. It's actually pretty simple right now. If the economy were in the toilet, things would be different.
You guys slay me. Let me put it in a nutshell. Hold the politicians accountable but if you choose not to don't then pick and choose who is going to be held accountable.
I have given up on them and am working hard to get rid of him. It is obvious Mitch and the GOP are not going to do their jobs so it's up to us. We must trounce him in the election.. A too-close election could be decided by the Russians.
I doubt the Russians will decide anything. But dead "voters" and illegal aliens, already registered and voting in the elections, might. Better start on getting them out!
"Why they don't care"... I can only speak for myself. However, I can give you a very simple answer. I have sat by and witnessed from the time Trump tossed his hat in, a form of hysteria that is almost unexplainable. It has been fueled by innuendos of crimes, and many other wrongdoings on the part of the president. None that anyone could simply and calmly with a bit of researched debunk. WAPO keeps a tally of what they call lies. One only needs to pick any one lie and do rudimentary research to find that lie was actually a statement taken out of context or a simple mistake of words. The keyword in why some don't care, think "common sense. It's as simple as that. People with common sense don't, as a rule, become fooled or wrapped in a blanket of hysteria. We look into allegations, taking time to have a solid look at a given allegation in its entirety.
For instance, just during the impeachment process, Trump has been accused of Tesson, bribery, quid pro quo. obstruction of justice... In the end, there was not one bit of factual evidence presented, only more opinion, innuendo. His name was slandered with all these very unproven charges. Charges that will be held against him even though he was not charged with one of those accusations.
And what were the final articles his crimes... high crimes and misdemeanors, and construction of Congress? Two crimes that are vague, and more likely articles they will not prove with any form of facts.
So, why some don't care? Because this is the kind of unproven innuendoes we have endured for many years now. It has become discussing, hard to comprehend how some find this kind of injustice acceptable? Each time Trump is accused of crimes we see the hysteria build, without any proof of a crime or wrongdoing. Some just add it all to an ongoing unproven list of crimes.
We see this president working to solve long-time problems, and putting the country on better footing. Common sense is what will get him reelected. You use the word clinging. We need not cling we only need to have a look at his job performance to know we made need to "hold" onto a president that is doing a great job, even under unfair scrutiny.Thanks for the clarification, Sharlee
I can't debate with you over subjects where we simply have differing points of opinion. That optical illusion a few years ago about seeing either a blue or yellow dress within the same picture comes to mind.
You, Yourself have expressed doubts about Trump being on the "up and up" in all the controversies.
IMHO, Trump, long before his candidacy has been a party to many unethical activities. His approval rating has remain quite low over the duration of his term when compared with his more recent predecessors. In spite of his "achievements", he is not receiving the corresponding confidence from a large number.
The Ukrainian affair still reeks for many of us and that he is unaware of the what transpired there or asking us all the believe a string of unlikely coincidences regarding his involvement relative to a clear political rival is stretching things.
We know the Senate would never convict Trump regardless of what he had done, as its representatives continue to remind us of this. I did not want this course as I knew the outcome and i do not think that Pelosi was anxious to engage at this level either. It is just that Trump is the sort that will take a mile when given an inch. The House could not just sit there and let the accusations go and not have them be investigated.
,"The Ukrainian affair still reeks for many of us and that he is unaware of the what transpired there or asking us all the believe a string of unlikely coincidences regarding his involvement relative to a clear political rival is stretching things."
Whether you believe those "coincidences" or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is if you know that the alternative is true. Not guess it is, not assume it is, not assign it truth because you don't believe the opposite, but know it to be true. And that can be a tough nut to crack; all the evidence to date doesn't come close.
"We know the Senate would never convict Trump regardless of what he had done, as its representatives continue to remind us of this."
This, I believe, is quite true. Just as we know the House would ever fail to impeach before the election, whether there was an actually impeachable event or not. Neither is palatable; both are true and both are a major reason Trump sits in the White House today. I'd go so far as to say that if the Democrats failed to impeach, but let it be known they thought there had been malfeasance but could not prove it to the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt", laying out their reasoning, they could be far ahead politically. But they won't; they will declare they do know, without evidence, that a crime was committed. And years of that is the sort of thing is what won Trump the election.I believe the Senate would impeach, if there was an impeachable offense presented, such as what Nixon did. Not such as what Clinton did.
It isn't really surprising that behavior by Trump, displayed by many other presidents without comment, gets put forth as 'impeachable'. But, it seems to me that there seem to be quite a few impeachment enthusiasts who want to emulate Bill Clinton, a la argue what 'is' means. And change definitions to suit politics.We are in such partisan territory today that Trump could not be convicted by the GOP controlled Senate even if he had someone killed.
There still is a big different between a GOP house after Clinton basically for whom he sleeps with and the charges that Trump is being "accused" of at this time.
I wish that the courts would step in to provide a definitive judgement one way or the other.I disagree. I hear similar comments from the left, often. 'Trump could commit murder and his supporters wouldn't care.'
I just don't think that is true of regular people or the Senate.
What we have as evidence is a lot of disagreement, disgruntled employees, muddled facts and a refusal to look at the big picture on the left of the House, and many on the left.
Prove a crime. A real crime. Not an 'I hate Donald Trump so let's make it a crime, crime' and I think you'd see many agree with you. I know I would.
But judging by what I've seen this far, my opinion remains unchanged.Would you be fine with Bolton and Pompeo answering questions under oath?
I'm anxious to hear all information. In the open. Not selectively leaked tidbits from behind closed doors.
Would you be ok with a rep from Ukraine, from the current administration, being called to testify? Would you be ok if Biden and his son were compelled to appear and testify?
"There still is a big different between a GOP house after Clinton basically for whom he sleeps with and the charges that Trump is being "accused" of at this time."
That's odd - the articles of impeachment against Clinton did not mention anyone he slept with. Instead they listed, as article one, that he perjured himself in front of the grand jury by giving false and misleading testimony.
Why do you say it was who he slept with?
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/346 … ost4110367Misleading testimony regarding a topic that was none of anybody's business in the first place. Sex scandals do not challenge fundamental tenets of the Constitution, like the issues that surrounded Nixon, and what it is that Trump is currently accused of.
And it goes on and on... I for one am tired of all the divisiveness. From the moment Trump won, it's been all-out war. And most likely will be for four more years.
"The House could not just sit there and let the accusations go and not have them be investigated."
Do you think Trump will not feel the same in regards to the "Biden and his Son saga"? Most likely he will go on to demand it be investigated.
Do all of these investigations, and now impeachment serve any of us well? All I have noted id that our Government went out of their way to investigate a president, and have come up with no evidence of a crime. However, it produced innuendo to further divide the country... I have said over and over if Trump committed a crime, and it could be proved he deserved to be impeached.
Now we have a dark light shed on the FBI, and there is evidence of abuse to the FISA court. All due to some in Government trying to undo an election by the people.
Time to step back, and just look at the fact. Some just could not accept the voice of the people, and won't next time around.I am afraid we are hopelessly divisive, the difference between conservative and liberals have become a chasm in recent years and I am pessimistic that it will ever be breached in the foreseeable future.
Trump is free to investigate Biden, just as the House is free to investigate him. Checks and balances....
I don't think that the Government has "gone out of its way to harass Trump". He does some stupid things, never taking the time to contemplate results of missteps before he takes them. He is self promoting and arrogant, which constitutes some of the reasons why I dislike personally.
How do we get from partisan wrangling to a definitive solution that is considered final and impartial? The Courts may have to step in and impartially evaluate evidence and come to a decision.
Trump accuses all the government agencies under his purview of stabbing him in the back. So, everybody is now out to get Trump? That is a convenient excuse. None of his recent predecessors have responded in this way. How has Trump become so large of a target for so many?
Would you acknowledge the "voice of the people" if a Democrat wins in 2020?
"I can't debate with you over subjects where we simply have differing points of opinion. "
Yes, this statement rings very true. We all have our own opinions, especially when it comes to politics. We are all coming from different life experiences that have given us unique ways of looking at things. And yes I have condoned and disavowed Trump's actions as I felt appropriate. As I have with all other presidents.
I voted twice for President Obama feeling he was going to offer something new to our Government. He came out firing on all cylinders. helping save the auto industry and the banks... Then fell flat. In the end, I was disappointed with him. he was clearly a lovely kind human being, and I felt he did his best.his best just was not good enough. He flew below the radar. He never said an embarrassing word or brought scandal to his office. But in my opinion, he was ill equipt to be president the country was stagnant.
After Obama, I reevaluated what I thought the country needed at that time. I felt the country could benefit from a businessman, with a very progresses pro-America agenda. The country was falling behind in trade deals, our military was being ignored, immigration was a mess, SS was all but broke. I was aware of Trump's scandals, and his outgoing sometimes crude demeanor. I chose to vote for him in hopes he would do a good job at solving problems. I am at this point very satisfied with his job performance, and the direction the country is headed. Weighing it all, I think his personality needs lots of work. However, his job performance is excellent. He gets things done. And all the other unproven crimes are just that unproven. I would certainly feel different if he commits a crime that is clearly a crime. All the smoke that surrounds him just has no produced a gun.
In regards to not letting the accusations go uninvestigated. I have no problem with investigating accusations. The allegations were investigated to the best of the Congress's ability. However, in the end it should have stopped at he investigation. There was no factual evidence uncovered. And I do realize the WH would used executive privilege and would not cooperate with Congress. They should have taken it to the Supreme Court for their opinion. They did not... At that point, the impeachment should have been dropped. The outcome is written in stone.
If this by chance goes to trial Trump will then open the Biden can of worms... I think we have all had enough. Do we need another political scandal? Do we need a president that may have set his son up with favors to the WH? Please note the words may have... Because those words clearly apply to all of the innuendoes that surrounds Trump.
Time for all to pick up the marbles and move on.The trial in the senate will be as short as Moscow Mitch can make it, Shar. He certainly doesn't want Bolton or Mulvaney to testify under oath.
I agree the trial most likely will be short if any is held. I am also sure Trump would not let anyone in his cabinet testify, using executive privilege. The only recourse the Dems would have to get anyone from his cabinet to testify would be to the Supreme Court. Which would draw this trial out for a very long time?
As I have said we the people deserve a trial. This mess needs clarifying once and for all. But you do realize, Trump will pull in Schiff, Pelosi, Biden, as well as his son. We will have a new can of worms... I want a trial it's time to do housecleaning on all of them...
What discussed me both sides knew where this would end up -- nowhere. This was just a political ploy, and we paid for it. And it has worked to further the great divide.
True again, Sharlee, my background and experiences drive my values and preferences in a totally different direction from yours.
Obama, while an improvement over his predecessor, George Bush, was ill equipped to go beyond the center left tradition of the party. A stubborn Republican Congress went a long way in his not being as effective as I would like. Now, I need more in candidates, centrists will not do.
Sadly, there will alwaysbe those who ignore reason in order to hate. Those are the ones with TDS, orange man bad syndrome. They'll assume all who look at facts in order to come to conclusions don't care; simply because they can't be bullied into catching TDS, orange man bad syndrome
Those people definitely couldn't be swayed.Cool.
When a future Democrat POTUS ignores all subpoenas in a future investigation, you'll be fine with that.
Good to.know.I don't know, if Trump escapes being thrown out office, he can then refuse to ever leave. What can we do about it as he's above the law according to the AG?
Back to the hate calling. Just like Sean and Rush using this tired response because they have no valid answers.
At first, I hesitated to respond. Judging from the name-calling, ALL-CAPS, and 'either or' comments it seems like emotions in this thread have gone over the top.
What changed? Is it that impeachment is finally in sight, that the articles of impeachment aren't as severe as expected, or frustration that all signs point to it being unsuccessful for removal?
GAFor me, it is horrifying and sickening to see people still supporting him after all he has done.
I understand. However, for me, although I wouldn't use the word horrifying, it is disturbing to see folks I view as sensible resorting to name-calling and vitriolic ALL-CAPS exclamations to make the points of their comments.
Remember that adage about yelling being the last resort . . . ?
GA
- The Minstrelposted 3 years ago0
It's obvious that on this thread and others, the political divide is as a deep and wide as the Marianas Trench. There is no common ground, but only abysmal vitriol and disdain.
One blames the other of being brain washed by their respected new's stations and visa versa; thus, nullifying any healthy debate because we believe the other is operating on false information/propaganda.
How about we look at it this way. There are good reasons to not like Trump and there are good reasons to like Trump. One camp sees him as a racist, a liar, a misogynisti, and the most vilest creature to ever sit in the white house. Maybe some don't see him in that extreme a light, but they will still not vote for Trump because they simply don't like him and what he is doing.
The other camp sees him as a not-so-perfect leader who works hard and keeps his promises. Again, maybe some see him as a the-lesser-than-two-evils candidate when comparing him to Hillary or others. Whatever the case, there are primarily two camps that have their reasons for why they will or will not vote for Trump (I am sorry if I did not state your reason). I am cool with this. People have a right to like or not like someone. They have their reasons, some good and some bad.
However, I have a problem when one camp believes their good reasons are superior to the other camp's good reasons and they then label them as idiots or fools for not siding with them. When this happens, it makes me wonder about the other camp's sanity, especially in the light of concrete facts.
I will vote for Trump again because he has made good on many of his promises that I deem important as a voter (deregulation of businesses and taxes, immigration reform, renegotiating unfair trade agreements, making NATO pay their fair share, rebuilding the military, bolstering ties with Israel, bringing jobs back to America, and many more). These fulfilled promises are irrefutable. It's concrete. These are good reasons. I think it's kind of refreshing for a politician to fulfill their promises. He promised and fulfilled. He has my vote.
The other camp doesn't like Trump because of past indiscretions, crudeness, being overly sensitive to criticism, hurtful language, and they simply don't like his policy initiatives. They also think he has added considerably to the division in our nation, even though the other side has done their fair share in bringing division, too. Whatever the case, these are some good reasons for that camp not to vote for Trump. I may not agree that these things would be the deal breaker for me, but I don't think they are idiots or fools. They have their concrete evidence for why they don't like Trump. Therefore, truth is important. Facts are important. Evidence is important.
That is why Trump will win reelection in 2020. The impeachment is not based on any first hand evidence or facts, and the American public sees right through the deception. If what happened in England with the recent vote is a barometer for our 2020 elections, then the Democrats have something to worry about. Moreoever, their MSM is way more antagonist to Conservative candidates then what we have here in the USA. They were not swayed by the barage of leftist propaganda.
Sadly, if the Democrats took a more moderate approach and fielded better candidates that actually did not use a quid pro quo to influence a nation, they would stand a better chance of winning in 2020. Instead, they are banking on this non-bipartisan, non-evidence, and non-crime impeachment to try to win. Sorry, they just sealed their coffin in 2020.I applaud this response. You stated the obvious well!
The Republican strategy for every issue is to flip the narrative and use the language of the Democrats ("quid pro quo") thereby confusing every debate.
It's not at all clear you understand the meaning of the phrase.
That said, I agree with most of your observations. I think if the economy is strong, it will be Trump's election to lose. The ends justify the means. People don't care about the journey. They care about the results. The economy is almost always #1 in voters' minds. This is how it works in most businesses and how it works in politics. It may not be "ideal" (imagine a liberal spouting about how things "should" work), but it's the truth.
Yup, this impeachment initiative by the Democrats is ultimately hurting them and the rest of our country. Going after Trump by trampling over the Constitution and fairness sets the bar for anyone to bring a charge of impeachment for almost anything.
What will hurt badly is the Republican party not holding the President accountable, because when Trump's doppleganger on the Dem side comes to power, he will behave the same way and it will be a very bad time for the country.
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