Could Rush be right (for once)?

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   Credence2posted 4 years ago

   I am picking this up from a comment that Grace made on another thread and it got me thinking.
   
   Rush may well be right about the political fortunes of Mayor Pete. The scuttlebutt that I hear in the Barbershop from a bunch of older black guys say that his avowed homosexuality is a problem. This may well be a underlying reason why this man has not done well with the Black community.
   
   I remain the voice of dissention among them, not so quick to cling to Biden just because he was VP under Obama whom we all voted for and supported. I am not into identity politics and look to the man or woman willing the make the sweeping changes that I would like to see. Still, these guys see things in terms of "good white folks vs bad white folks" in just getting rid of Trump.  I may be missing something. They may well recognize the futility of getting "the man" and "his system" to commit to any real change, no more than you can expect a polar bear to use the toilet. So, it is what it is.....
   
   Let's face it, this prude culture still debates the idea of a female as President of the United States, ignoring the fact that half of this country is female and haved served and are serving in all three major branches of government at the highest levels with distinction. In 2020, none of this should continue to be "controversial".
   
   Barrack Obama won in 2008 against a basically good and decent man, John McCain. But, McCain was the poster boy from the 2008 economic tsunami whether he wanted it or not. Not much different than Herbert Hoover in 1932, a basically decent man caught up in events and circumstances that he could not control. In spite of all this, Obama won only because of overwhelming non-white support. So, when we talk about progress, we do well to measure it with the proper implements to gauge an accurate assessment of what it really means.
   
   I think that we are being toyed with by the media, etc giving Mayor Pete more of a boost than he could actually have in reality.
   
   But, I could be wrong, it has happened before.
   
   Your thoughts....

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      Ken Burgessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      In the Thread you mentioned, I brought up some Pew figures.
      
      The bottom line of which is that 40% of the nation is not accepting of gays.
      
      The interesting thing about Mayor Pete is that because of his essential lack of political history (on BIG/FEDERAL matters) and having no track record on anything relating to D.C. politics he is not carrying any baggage regarding issues.
      
      Obviously a few things are a given, he is for LGBTQ rights and he is anti-Trump.  But whether he will be a corporate/wall st. hack, or a globalist frontman, or hard-core anti-religious, or none of the above, will take weeks of scrutiny to determine, and hopefully some of what he really believes surfaces... right now its mostly generic and safe stances he has taken.
      
      I've come to the conclusion that none of the options the Democrats are feilding right now seem good or have enough support to depose Trump.
      
      Mayor Pete may seem to have a lot of the Obama qualities that made him a good candidate... he is young, fresh, has almost no political history making him a blank slate that people can pin their hopes and dreams on, when in reality he may represent none of what they hope for.
      
      But where Obama's "minority" status served him in a positive way, motivating millions to come out and vote for him that may not have come out to vote for a non-minority candidate... I don't think that will work in Mayor Pete's favor.
      
      Not when a solid 40% of the nation is not accepting of his sexual preferences, and this 40% is not isolated to any particular race or sex.  That is a huge hole to start out in, even larger than the one Trump will have, by a significant amount.

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         Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Ken,
         
         Yes, not being homophobic, my problem with Mayor Pete is his relative lack of political experience and my concern that he will not run with the ball far enough before he becomes mesmerized by those committed to retaining the status quo. As the oligarchs and the corporate class are ruthless and I need a heavyweight to go to battle against them.
         
         The struggle for dominance between the centrists and the left leaning candidates may well create a schism allowing Trump to win and that is my greatest fear.
         
         Being homosexual is much more controversial in this society over race and gender.

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            gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Ken, being homosexual in American society is view as the big taboo.  There are many Americans who are quite aghast at the prospect of homosexuality.  There seem to be a fear of homosexuality in American society, excluding the East & West Coasts, especially in the Midwest & South.  The South has deep ingrained prejudices against homosexuality, seeing it some sort of aberration-the way Southerners view those who are not traditionally religious.  The South is the most conservative, if not reactionary region in America.

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               Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               And the most religious! Which seems antithetical to Trump.

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                  gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  The South is the most fanatically religious of all America.  The South isn't called the Bible Belt for nothing.   My late mother comes from the South, from a religious family.  My maternal family, for the most part, are religious addicts.  My mother was raised on religion & the bible which I rebelled against at 16.  Most of my maternal family are religious addicts of one form or another.

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                     Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     I'm right in the midst of it, Grace! Seems like there's one church for ever 10 Xtians down here. The nearest town has one stoplight, and over 10 churches to choose from. Most of them Baptist of some sort. And this isn't counting the country churches nearby.

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            Eastwardposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            ^ This is exactly my concern with Mayor Pete, Cred. His gender or sexual preference are irrelevant to me. Unfortunately, I agree that homosexuality is still controversial with a significant percentage of the US population. Rush wasn't wrong in acknowledging this, though the manner in which he did so was inappropriate.

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               gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               America, especially Midwest & Southern, aren't ready for a gay, atheistic, or a female president.   Midwestern & Southern Americans, for the most part, want a Caucasian Christian male for president.  Hell, it was hard enough for a Black man to be president.  There were those who were QUITE UNCOMFORTABLE w/Obama as president....

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                  Eastwardposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  It's sad but true. Head out to a few popular bar/restaurant combos in the rural Midwest and diplomatically offer a criticism of an Obama policy. I'd bet good money you'll find yourself subjected to a racist tirade 7 out of 10 times. I'm not even sure how this can be improved in such heterogeneous areas, but improvements in the education system have to play at least one leading role.

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                     gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     The Midwest & South are the last traditional regions in America.  The Midwest & South are known for homespun, traditional family values.  It is church, home, & family in the Midwest & South.  The South is even more extreme than the Midwest.  The South is at least 20-30 years behind the rest of America & that includes the Midwest.  Someone suggested that I go South after retirement, I let out some expletives.  Hell to the no,  I wouldn't fit in the South.   I would ruffle quite a few feather.   Any Southerner please forgive me for what I am going to say, the South is the most backward region in the United States.  I am from New York, one of the most progressive regions in America.  I wouldn't live in the South for anything...……...I am a NEW YORK GAL!  New York is hip, cool, & quite unconventional.   Leave New York for the South?????? Are you kidding me?????

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                        Eastwardposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        I guess I've spent too much time living in big cities among people of every race, religion, sexual orientation, and otherwise to imagine living in a close minded community too. I'll take hip, cool, and quite unconventional any day of the week

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                           Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           That's not it EW, I've lived in a rural environment all of my life and see diversity as a plus, whatever it may be. We all need to remember how quickly things can change when we aren't limited to a tunnel vision goal.
                           
                           The American experiment proves this concisely as we became the most powerful and respected nation on earth. And then Trump rears his ugly head....

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                              Eastwardposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              Agreed, Randy. I think that if these rural inhabitants were exposed to diversity in a more natural way (not some government program that plucks minorities from the criminal justice system in a big city and dumps them in a rural community they have no experience with or ties to), attitudes and perceptions would change substantially. And good point about the rise of the American experiment. Hopefully we can get back to that point of being respected in the international community. As my friends like to remind me, even post-Trump we'll have a lot of work to do to rehabilitate our image.

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                                 Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                 True, EW. The longer Trump is in office, the more we have to repair after he's gone.

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                        Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        Grace,
                        
                        I have lived all over America and I can't easily dismiss any specific geographic region  for being "behind", even if they are predominantly conservative. I have irreconcilable issues wth any conservative or right winger whether they live in Selma or New York City. I have lived in Florida for 5 years and the most obnoxious people here are the New York transplants. I am a Westerner and am not easily impressed.
                        
                        What is "behind" can be considered relative, it depends on what you are seeking. I have lived in LA and I know about the fast life, but I deliberately chose to not make that my way.

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                           Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           I agree Cred, it only takes the ability to see right from wrong if you believe everyone is equal under our Constitution. Everything is else is needless.

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                  Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  I think that you are taking too broad a brush. Obama did well enough winning two terms so I could question where you put the geographic dividing lines assumption. So, you don't think that a bias that support only straight whites males is not a serious bias considering the diversity that is the growing trend? That is the Rightwinger for you....

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         crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Being gay is not a preference. You're just revealing your bigotry there. Liking blonds over brunettes is a preference.

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            PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            I find Trump's sexual "preferences" far more offensive than Mayor Pete's.
            
            I've chosen to stay away from posting on the forums the last few days because I am surprised and saddened by what I have been reading.

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               gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Pretty Panther, many Americans lend to the centrist, if not the conservative side.   There are Americans who are aghast of the LBGTQ community.  They see the LBGTQ people as outsiders or worse.   Truly liberal Americans are in the minority, not the majority.   Even people who claim themselves as liberal are aghast regarding the LBGTQ community.  They may not voice it publicly but...…...PRIVATELY, they VOICE their bias...….

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                  crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  People reject what they don't understand. Are you just saying that most of America is prejudiced against gay people? I would think a lot of religious people don't understand homosexuality, believing it to be a choice, which is ridiculous.

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                  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Well, I don't consider prejudice, which is based in ignorance and fear, to be a conservative or liberal position, though I agree that it seems more prevalent among conservatives.

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      GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      I mentioned a similar perspective in another thread. I don't think it went over very well.
      
      I agreed with the criticism of Rush's dialogue, but also offered the 'What if he is right?' thought.
      
      I think your anecdotal perspective is a true reflection of our society.
      
      GA

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         Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Good, I am glad that you can see it this way.

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      gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Ah...hmmm...………..most of Americans AREN'T ready for an LBGTQ president, especially in the Midwest & South.  Even in cities such as New York, there are communities in which being LBGTQ is viewed as abnormal, if not a mortal transgression.   Most Americans, at this point, aren't comfortable w/ having an LBGTQ president as they aren't comfortable having an atheistic or a non-traditional religious president.  It was HARD ENOUGH for some Americans to accept a Black president.....

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         Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Point well taken, I can't leave out the church goers and the evangelicals. But, you don't have to be a rightwing evangelical to have problems with the concept of homosexuality within most Jude's-Christian religion.
         
         Who is selling us on the possibility that such a candidate has any chance in today's political climate?

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      jackclee lmposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      You under estimate Rush. He has been right 99.4% of the times when it comes to politics...
      America is not ready for a gay president. Mayor Pete is too young and too green for this job. The other problem is the current economy under Trump is too good. Why would anyone change pitchers during a winning season?

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         Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Rush says what whoever pays him the most wants him to say.

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            jackclee lmposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Rush is an entertainer and a political commentator. He can say whatever he wants, it is called freedom of speech.
            He has an excellent record of predicting results.
            He is also astute at evaluating political liabilities.
            He is a conservative.

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               Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               "Rush is an entertainer"
               
               If you stopped right there we could agree, Jack. He has an excellent record for spreading fake conspiracy theories, as well.
               
               Trump can say what ever he wants and it's free speech. Unfortunately,. this doesn't make it true.

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                  gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Rush is a showman in the tradition of P.T. Barnum.    Rush knows how to push buttons so people can respond.   Very few people take Rush seriously.  Rush is entertainment, no more no less.  Rush isn't a deep person.

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         Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

         No, as far as Rush Limbaugh is concerned, I was overly generous with my words. He is the last person who should have received an award.
         
         Corporate America pays Limburger the big bucks to dupe the man in the street into believing that they actually have common interests.

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   PrettyPantherposted 4 years ago

   How old are you all?  lol

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      Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Cmon, Panther, not that much older than you.....

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         gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Our average ages are from 50s-60s.   However, the issue isn't age at all but SOCIOPOLITICAL IDEOLOGY.  There are YOUNG Americans who aren't accepting of anyone who have a different lifestyle, ideology, nor purview than they have.  There are YOUNG Americans who are not receptive to the LBGTQ community, Blacks, Latinos, Asians, the broadening of gender roles, & those who are outside traditional religious purviews.

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            Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

            True, but the young are generally more receptive to new ideas and concepts.

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      gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Pretty, America, excluding the East & West Coasts, are pretty centrist, if not conservative.   Many Americans find LBGTQ people to be quite strange, if not abhorrent.   These same Americans find atheistic & non-traditional spiritual people to be weird or even worse.  Many Americans are quite aghast at those who are different from their purview.   America is not as liberal nor progressive as some would surmise. America is basically conservative in its lifestyles, beliefs, & ideologies.  In some parts of America, there are CONSERVATIVE Democrats, believe it or not.  Not all Democrats are liberals or leftists.

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