GOP Past Versus GOP Future: Who Wins?

1. 78

   Valeantposted 3 years ago

   
   Right now, there appears to be a battle being waged in the Republican Party in two different factions.
   
   The first faction is the Mitch McConnell wing, who has clearly moved on from the 2020 election and has accepted what happened on January 6 and wants to shine the spotlight on weak areas within the Biden administration.  He is looking to the future.
   
   The second faction is the Donald Trump wing, who is singularly focused on rewriting history to erase his crushing defeat from 2020 and trying to convince people to live in his alternate reality.  He is looking to the past.
   
   Trump still has the majority of the base.  But cracks have shown as Pence, Christie, Cheney, and McConnell have shown no fear of publicly rebuking Trump's attempt to convince people of that alternate reality.
   
   The question becomes who wins this fight and will the losing side accept the view of the winner?

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2. 78

   Valeantposted 3 years ago

   This article makes the case:
   https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/0 … e-00005867

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   1. 69

      Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I think this misses what is going on in our politics enterely.
      
      The transition took a long time but most Americans especially those under age 60 have become aware of it.
      
      Republicans used to be the party of the corporations, bankers, businessmen... They are transitioning to represent the Middle Class.  The working class, blue collar, and in particular the Hispanic population is shifting to Republican.
      
      The Democrats used to represent the Middle Class, but unless we are talking big Unions, they couldn't care less about working people today.  The Democrats now, more than the Republicans ever did, represent the Elite, the 1 percent, the Bill Gates, Oprah Winfrey types, the Mass Media moguls from Disney to Google.
      
      The Democrats only care about those dependent on the government for survival and those entities and individuals with the mega-bucks.
      
      They despise those in between, they are the deplorables, those individuals that want to keep what they work for, want to own a home, car, have a yard with a white picket fence and enjoy a quiet retirement that doesn't require them to work past 65.
      
      The Democrats support the Global Reset. The idea that you will own nothing and like it.  They are the party that wants to change the core foundation of what made America, from the electoral process to constitutional amendments that protect free speech, arms, and assembly.
      
      The Republican Party is changing to become the Workers, the Nuclear Family, the Liberty and Freedoms party, because those Americans who believe in such things have no where else to go.

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      1. 76

         wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         "The Republican Party is changing to become the Workers, the Nuclear Family, the Liberty and Freedoms party, because those Americans who believe in such things have no where else to go."
         
         Yes and no.  I think the Republican party always was about that, at least in my lifetime.  Supporting "corporations, bankers, businessmen" in an effort to give the workers and nuclear family a way to get that " home, car, and yard with a white picket fence" does not and never did mean that those corporations were the bottom line in what mattered.
         
         The big exception, of course, is the tie between Republicans and the Christian religion that has always sought to control the masses according to the then-current philosophies of that religion.  In that regard the Party does not concern itself with Liberty and Freedom and still does not.  Instead we must depend on the Democrat Party to keep that part of the Republican agenda in check.

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         1. 69

            Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            If that were true, we would be losing them in short order.
            
            It is the Dems that are working overtime to curb free speech, to remove your ability to own arms, etc.

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         2. 0

            savvydatingposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Our republic was built upon Christian principles, and that is why we enjoy democracy in its truest form. Once precepts of Christianity fail to be revered by our nation, we will experience our demise. Consequently, I wholeheartedly reject your premise that "Republicans and Christian religion..." sought to control the masses"
            
            .Nothing could be further from the truth.
            
            In your free time, you might check out, The Rage Against God by Peter Hitchens.

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            1. 76

               wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               "Nothing could be further from the truth"
               
               Think back to prohibition.  Think of the blue laws, a few of which are still in operation.  Think of the fight against abortion and that it is lead and fueled by the Christian Right.  Think of all the laws against "indecent exposure".  Think about the fight to put prayer in schools.  Think about the words on our money "In God We Trust".  Think about the addition of the words "Under God" in our Pledge of Allegiance that was repeated by millions of school children.  Think about the religious icons and statues on our public lands, including the first 4 of the 10 Commandments. 
               
               Then consider that the first colonies were either penal institutions or religions running from other religions and then clamping down on everyone they could (such as the Puritans).  Consider just how far our forefathers went to deny the ability of churches to control the country...and why they found it necessary to do so.
               
               Then explain that none of that is an attempt to "control the masses".

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               1. 69

                  Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  I must give credit where credit is due, you have made a valid point.
                  
                  But at this juncture in our society, we have moved far from that.
                  
                  We have done things that until very recently were unthinkable.
                  
                  We have open debate about your sex being a feeling, not a physical reality.
                  
                  We have a government that stripped property owner's rights away, refusing them the ability to control who they allowed to live in their rentals and why.
                  
                  We have States that give homeless and squatters more rights to the property they choose to occupy than the owners of those properties.
                  
                  We have State leadership that say rioting and occupying parts of their cities is OK, that looting stores is not a crime.
                  
                  We are watching the deconstruction of our society right in front of our eyes, and you are harkening back to things that were predominant more than 40 years ago... that most people below the age of 50 can't even remember.
                  
                  We have a country today that is divided... you have "Far Right News" that according to the "Far Left News" is lying, while those on the opposing side note the Left's "Fabrication, Falsehoods and selection of Facts" doesn't measure up to what is actually going on.
                  
                  The News sources are divided, opposing opinions are considered "threatening" or "treasonous" and needing to be "censored" on Social Media platforms, straying from the accepted "truth" leads to being banned.
                  
                  These are very different times.
                  
                  The Republican Party is in transition and will represent in its majority something very different from its more Puritan Past, it has to, because the Democratic Party has gone so far down the rabbit hole it is no longer welcoming to people who don't want to be dependent on their government, who believe actions should have consequences, that sex isn't how you feel that morning, etc. etc.
                  
                  There is a difference at the Federal level, and the country has caught on, we will see this in the Mid-Terms and that is why you have the likes of Biden already saying the Mid-Term elections could ""easily be illegitimate" paving the way for them to do whatever is next in their playbook to retain control.

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                  1. 76

                     wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                     "...that is why you have the likes of Biden already saying the Mid-Term elections could ""easily be illegitimate" paving the way for them to do whatever is next in their playbook to retain control."
                     
                     Does that remind you of someone else, someone that said the only way he could lose was if the other side cheated?  I expect a great furor this midterm everywhere a Democrat loses, large numbers of demands for a recount and huge numbers of claims of fraud.

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                     1. 81

                        Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        I don't, only Republicans and right wing types behave this way.

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                     2. 69

                        Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        Some of the changes made to the election process last year ARE the reason why Biden got the win in at least two states.
                        
                        What are the odds that President Trump has a 700,000 vote lead in Pennsylvania by midnight on election night and then he loses by 60,000?
                        
                        Pennsylvania Court later declared the State’s Mail Voting Law (created for the 2020 election) Unconstitutional, so does that constitute the other side cheating?
                        
                        Georgia just last month confirmed over 100,000 Ballots in the Georgia 2020 Election were missing valid Chain of Custody Documentation, remember, Biden was given the state by only a 12,000 vote margin.  Does that count as cheating?
                        
                        If you don't mind hundreds of thousands of ballots that have no proof of who signed them, being counted and deciding who your President is, then I guess you are fine with the election results.

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                        1. 78

                           Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                           The Pennsylvania law was passed by both parties and the unconstitutional ruling is expected to be reversed by higher courts.
                           
                           And your claims about Georgia are from VoterGA, not from Georgia.  Saying a partisan group backing Trump's big lie is a state entity is false.

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3. 81

   Credence2posted 3 years ago

   Cracks become a fissure and a fissure can become a chasm. A weakened GOP can do nothing but help.

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   1. 78

      Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Trump learned nothing in 2020 by continuing to play only to his base.  The hope continues to be to siphon off those Republicans that can see his crimes against Democracy and will vote across party lines to defeat Trump-endorsed candidates should they win their primary races.

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   2. 69

      Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      This Presidency is a dangerous one, in some ways more dangerous than Trump was considered.
      
      Trump was obvious, he was blunt, direct, a man of many faults that turned many against him.
      
      Biden hides sinister machinations in his "Opey Dopey"-ness, while at other times he is just as brash, threatening and unhinged as Trump ever was.
      
      "- it's not just my belief. It's the beating heart of our American idea --- our bold experiment in self-government. It's the conviction that we are all created equal, endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, among them life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It's the insistence that these rights, while self-evident, have never been self-executing; that We, the People, through the instrument of our democracy, can form a more perfect union."
      
      That didn't come from Trump and it didn't come from Biden (and won't).
      
      Biden is not up to the tough times ahead, the sooner we move on from this Administration the better for all.

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      1. 81

         Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

         "our bold experiment in self-government. It's the conviction that we are all created equal, endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, among them life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It's the insistence that these rights, while self-evident, have never been self-executing; that We, the People, through the instrument of our democracy, can form a more perfect union"
         
         When we get closer to living up to it with ceaseless effort, I will be the first one to stop bitching.
         
         Trump remains a tyrant in my mind opposed to or oblivious to the meaning of democracy and democratic governance. A man whose faults far out weigh any virtue anybody could really acknowledge.
         
         But, again, that is just my opinion.
         
         Biden is slow on the uptake in many areas, but I prefer democracy over the tyranny presented by one man. I will take my chances with the former over the latter.

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         1. 69

            Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            I don't consider Biden a representative of Democracy, I see him as a representative of the corrupt machinations that have taken a stranglehold control of our government over the decades being returned to power.
            
            They spit on Democracy, they denigrate or sabotage the likes of Gabbard or Sanders to ensure their puppet (Biden) is put in place.
            
            I have no problems moving on from Trump... and I earnestly look forward to the day when Biden is gone, taking that lunatic VP with him.

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            1. 78

               Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               We can agree on Biden not getting a second term, and even taking Harris with him.
               
               Do you think a Gabbard or a Sanders would have beaten Trump in 2020?  Because for our party, the strategy seemed to be about who could siphon the most votes off of the GOP to win.  And in those terms, the strategy was a success, even if Biden hasn't been so successful himself since being elected.
               
               It was about excising someone working against our own government from within by ruining our alliances with other democratic nations and coddling autocratic ones.  It was about removing someone openly flaunting the ignorance of our laws pertaining to emoluments, nepotism, campaign finance, campaigning (Hatch Act), and immigration when he separated children.  It was about electing someone who had experience in dealing with a pandemic as Biden had seen two during his terms as Vice President, successfully stopping the second from impacting our nation.
               
               Putting up a candidate with swing state roots and not someone who represented perimeter states like Hawaii or New Hampshire.
               
               Electing a moderate seemed to be the best strategy for achieving the stated goals of removing Trump from doing more damage to America.  One who could likely carry an important state like Pennsylvania.  And in that, the party got it right.

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               1. 69

                  Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  In that perspective, of getting Trump out, they succeeded.
                  
                  In the goal of making sure they had someone who would restore the direction the country had been taking (a slow steady decline of individual liberty and economic freedom as the corporate hegemony dominates our politics, laws and lives) and who was in control (the corrupt cronies, not the people) they were successful.
                  
                  If you haven't read it already, may I suggest: Globalization And Hegemony Shift: Are States Merely Agents Of Corporate Capitalism?
                  
                  The corporations influence on a global scale through multinational corporations. In America none are more powerful than the collective Military Industrial Complex.
                  
                  Since the fall of the Soviet Union, the spread of technology, the advent of multinational corporations have led to a new order where corporate capitalism has become the primary force in international law and our foreign policy.
                  
                  Corporations no longer serve the Government, or answer to it, they are more powerful than any nation or any national law.
                  
                  We saw how they could silence a sitting President and his supporters, trust me, that is not something they will do only to Trump.  It was a sign of just how weak our government has become, it now serves corporate interests... not the other way around.
                  
                  Biden is nothing more than the front man for the subjugation of the people to the tyranny of corporate interests.  I wrote about it years ago: The Rise of the International Capitalist State, and the Return of Subjugation.

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4. 84

   Readmikenowposted 3 years ago

   As someone who knows the Republican party, I can tell you when the Republicans take back the Senate, it is highly unlikely that Mitch McConnell will still be the senate majority leader. 
   
   I don't agree with the article.  There is a strong move to purge the party of RINOs.  I think this is a good thing.
   
   Everything from polling to fundraising indicates the Republicans will take back the Senate and the Congress in the midterms.  If this happens and the Congress is "veto proof" (something that hasn't happened since obama's first term) I think the Democrats and liberals will be quite upset.
   
   Biden won't be able to veto any laws put forth by Congress.

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   1. 71

      abwilliamsposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      {hashtag} purge the RINOs!

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5. 84

   Sharlee01posted 3 years ago

   You said a mouthful Ken... So agree

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6. 78

   Valeantposted 3 years ago

   I find it fascinating that you believe that electing the head of a tyrannical business organization and the policies that he passed that directly benefitted that organization make him separate and not even more corrupt than a career politician in Biden.
   
   I like the show Jericho, which tackled the corporations versus government aspect and made you think about the power balance between the two entities.
   
   I definitely think you're looking too far into why Biden was chosen when considering the limitations of the other candidates in the field.  Moderate, old, white, Pennsylvania ties, experience.  Pretty simple really.

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   1. 69

      Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Why would you think THAT description is what made him appealing to voters?
      
      Certainly not to Progressives.
      
      Not to Conservatives, who knew too well what he was, 40 years in DC does that.
      
      Not to young voters.
      
      That description should have had him losing in a landslide.
      
      He is the opposite of Obama in every way, old vs. young, stuck in the past vs. new hope and progressive ideas.
      
      Biden never once was able to fill a Theatre, let alone a stadium like Trump, or Obama.
      
      Biden won only because the American people had been beaten down for a year by covid, lockdowns, riots, and constant negative media about Trump (while his supporters were silenced).
      
      In essence, a corpse could have been put up to run against him and probably would have had the same results.
      
      Considering Trump officially only got about 75 million votes... But still lost the election, some weeks later.

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      1. 78

         Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         When given a choice between Biden and Trump for progressives, there are zero reasons for progressive to vote for Trump in that case.  Especially when Sanders and Warren were standing with Biden.
         
         Young voters given a choice between two seventy-somethings.  Not sure why you brought that into it since it's a wash.
         
         You think the media was negative.  I'd say Trump was the negative one.  Using child-like insults since he came down the elevator.  Calling the media the enemy of the people.
         
         And yes, with all of Trump's failings with Covid, the left was looking for anyone else.  What Biden's nomination did is it gave Trump's campaign a lot less ammo than misogyny and socialism.  And it allowed moderate Republicans to have an option that wasn't too far left.  Trump got 75 million votes, but was probably responsible to 60 million going to Biden too by being really unlikeable and showing the country how a leader works against the best interests of a nation.
         
         Trump went too far right, as shown when he failed to condemn white supremacists during the debates.  And the party is still really far right to the point where Liz Cheney is called a RINO.  Instead of learning from 2020 and coming back to centrist conservativism, they abandoned the middle and allowed the fringe to be the driving force in the party.  It could end the same way in the 2022 midterms as moderate republicans who see their preferred candidates defeated in primaries might feel more comfortable with moderate Democratic candidates than with Trump-endorsed ones.  Considering that the GOP is the smallest group of registered voters when looking at Democrats and Independents, that might doom their chances of taking back control of Congress.

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         1. 69

            Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            I agree with just about all of that.
            
            I don't think Trump being involved in politics, or supporting any politician does ANY good at all.
            
            That doesn't mean I approve of Biden or where he is taking us.
            
            Trump right now might be the best thing the Dem Party has going for it come 2022 ... but for the 2024 elections, very hard to tell... that can change with how bad things get over the next couple of years.
            
            I hate to say this, but I do think it is true... IF inflation gets worse... IF energy prices continue to go up... IF Biden gets us involved in a serious war (after tucking tail and running out of Afghanistan)... then Trump may have a very large, very demanding wave of people at his back in 2024.
            
            And I think the biggest demographic shift in his favor in such a case will not be with White people, it will be with the Hispanic population, especially those from Cuba, Venezuela, and any other nation that suffered Socialism and/or extreme inflation that crippled their economy (as happened in Mexico and Columbia more than once).
            
            Biden is a failure, he was a useful tool in the Senate and even as VP for powerful interests, but as a leader and decision maker, he is not up to the task of being President, and his VP even less so.
            
            Biden is a worse version of Carter in the sense that he doesn't belong leading the nation at home, or making foreign policy decisions for it abroad... the majority of America will despise him and Harris come 2024.

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            1. 78

               Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               I could also agree with much of that.  But would want to give Biden through this year to work on the inflation issue.  If it persists into 2023, then I might be able to buy into the failure narrative.

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               1. 69

                  Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  We each have our own ways of evaluating and determining success or failure.
                  
                  I consider the continual bottleneck of trade goods that he has chosen to ignore, many will remain ignorant that he could have alleviated the crisis.
                  
                  I consider the effort to mandate vaccines and to continue the ban on evictions in one way, while another person will look at these efforts in a completely different way.
                  
                  Ultimately he will be judged most of all by how people's pocketbooks have been effected, and secondly by issues of infringement on personal freedoms (such as his support of mandates, lockdowns, etc.).
                  
                  My concern is who will be replacing him... How competent they may be, how devisive.

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