Oh MY We Could Have A Dem As House Speaker

1. 86

   Sharlee01posted 2 years ago

   
   
   What are your thoughts on this Republican Sh-t Show?  How many votes will be taken before Kevin tosses in the towel, and if he does step away, who will pick up that towel? 
   
   It looks like the Republicans may shoot themselves in a foot due to their very lofty principles.
   
   Will the Republican's blow-up pedestal have a little bitty pin stuck in it?
   
   Any predictions?

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      Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I think that it is great and I anticipated such before. The hard and ridiculous right faction is going to hold McCarthy hostage. They may never be able to vote in unison over anything which gives Democrats the win by default, such an outcome perks up the ears of the progressives and make his and her eyes shine......
      
      Then in affect, we get control of both houses. Republicans may well note the old adage, " only fools fight within a burning House", no pun intended.

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      1. 86

         Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         In my view, it's called freedom of speech at its very best. In the end, if the GOP can't come up with a mutual candidate or agree to vote for McCarthy, they will need to consider losing the Speakership or compromising. However, I am very pleased to see the freedom caucus speak up.  I think McCarthy will be the next speaker, but he will walk into his position knowing there is a large faction of Citizens that expect him to carry on with what he promised and the America First agenda. I think he gets the message loud and clear.

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      tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Hot off the Daily Caller press. ‘VOTE FOR KEVIN’: Trump Doubles Down On McCarthy’s Speaker Bid. (01/4 8:25 am ET)
      
      https://dailycaller.com/2023/01/04/dona … YwEYj7zfvD

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         Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Hilarious, especially after he is the one that brought  the chaos caucus to life. He created the beast that will now eat them alive.  Just another one of his failures.

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         Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         This does not surprise me. Trump and McCarthy are good friends, and McCarthy has adopted Trump's America First policies. Trump also may be thinking that the Republicans need to stand united. Feeling if they don't Jeffries in the end will be the new speaker.  Trump's view seems logical.
         
         I am enjoying watching pure democracy on the House floor, I have not seen this in a very long time.  I think we all know in the end we will have a new speaker. The media is hyping the dysfunction. They should be touting the true democracy that we are witnessing.

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2. 72

   abwilliamsposted 2 years ago

   I understand it!
   Year after year, decade after decade, Republicans repeatedly shy away from what they proclaim they believe in, what they campaign on...conservative values!!
   Year after year, decade after decade, we the people say, oh okay, they are playing it safe, once again, seeking middle ground, with a moderate, a middle-grounder, once again, (for some unknown reason!!)
   
   Conservatives are sticking to their guns this time. I get it. They are tired of this moderate, middle of the ground place where the McCarthys, the Boehners, the Ryans, reside, it gets us nowhere, every time.
   
   I don't know what will happen or where this goes, but I understand it.

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      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      So well said. I want new, someone that will push ahead and continue America first. I am, and will never again be for the status quo. McCarthy is Pelosi in a suit, his history precedes him. I pray the 19 stick to their guns.

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   Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years ago

   How long will Republicans hold up the business of government with this nonsense?  These 19 in opposition to Mr. McCarthy are the far right fringe .  It is obvious that the Republican Party at this point is deeply fractured in a most likely  irreparable manner.  Even if Mr McCarthy makes a deal with the rebel faction how will this play out over the next 2 years? My guess is disastrous and nothing gets done. Probably time for the freedom caucus to branch out into their own party.  There's not a snowballs chance in hell any of them will become speaker. If anything, Republicans will coalesce around another moderate candidate.
   The Republican Party has become an absolute shambles.

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4. 72

   abwilliamsposted 2 years ago

   I don’t see any evidence of “fracture” or “shambles”, I do see evidence of individualism, standing on principle, making a point, which is unrecognizable on the left side of the aisle.

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      Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      A fracture is when you have 90% of your caucus supporting one candidate but they can't get him over the finish line.   That's a chasm.  Welcome to the post Trump Republican Party.  But honestly this whole speaker vote is ceremonial. They should have had this wrapped up weeks ago. The house is inoperable, members can't even be sworn in until these people stop fighting.  Not sure that bodes well for the country over the next two years.
      Today we saw a party pull the pin of a grenade and toss it amongst themselves.

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      1. 86

         Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         "But honestly this whole speaker vote is ceremonial. They should have had this wrapped up weeks ago"
         
         It well appears they could not come to an agreement in the previous weeks and have brought their grievances to the House Floor. Is this not true democracy?  Yes, you are seeing a split party, and both sides have the right to be heard.  You may not like it, but that is the way democracy works. We send Representatives to Washington to be heard...To share our voices. All voices, not just the ones we prefer to hear.

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            Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            I send my Representatives to Washington to do their job not hold up government for no reason. Their job is to compromise and negotiate toward the best outcome possible. It isn't too stubbornly push a minority view to the point that it obstructs all progress.   Again, they should form their own party

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               Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

               Part of the job in this case is voting for a new speaker, it is their job to point out any and all problems they see in the candidate. This is the time to have these forms of back and forths.  As I said I think we need to see what comes today. They were heard, and it will be up to these 20 to work with the majority to come to some compromise. perhaps that will come today.

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5. 72

   abwilliamsposted 2 years ago

   All we really need representing us in D.C. are warm bodies, told what to do and how to do it and when to do it, by the powers-that-be {not We the People}
   Until these warm bodies can ALL fall in line and act and behave in one particular manner, you'll be the one to call them out!?

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6. 72

   abwilliamsposted 2 years ago

   I, for one, love this.
   Let's keep them busy and on their toes, that way their hands are out of our pockets.

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   1. 86

      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      This is democracy. This is what many have forgotten about.  This is an example of free speech, unfettered. Many can't recognize this, that is what is odd, and sad.

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7. 60

   Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years ago

   This group of 20 seems to prefer the comfort of being in the minority and raging impotently, rather than facing the hard work and difficult compromises that are a requirement of operating in a governing majority.
   We are not based on minoritarian rule, do they not understand that?  They have shifted one  branch of government  into neutral. And for what?  A bit of spotlight? What are the principles they're standing on other than sheer grievance??  The anti-McCarthy crowd is pushing for the election of a guy who doesn’t want the job!
   what’s the point of this fight?
   I feel like the group of 20, as some of them have commented, would be happier with a Democrat as speaker.  They’re so used to being outsiders and railing against the system that they’re uncomfortable running the system.  You can only see more chaos coming over the next two years

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   1. 86

      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      In the end, a majority will win in this crisis. I see that as a given. However, the minority needs to be heard. Not sure where you feel this is unacceptable.  yesterday the minority was heard, it remains to be seen if they will stand with the majority in the end.  I am willing to remain calm and see what today brings.
      
      They shared their grievances in regard to McCarthy, and we will see what will come today.

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8. 86

   Sharlee01posted 2 years ago

   I have been perusing social media to get an idea of how the general public feels about what we are seeing on the House floor trying to vote for the new speaker.
   
   Yes, we are seeing confusion, and yes we are seeing disruption. However, are we not seeing democracy at its best?  We have 20 congresspersons holding out, presenting other candidates, and sharing clear reasons why they feel McCarthy is not the man for the job.
   
   Yet, these few are being called every name in the book, just for speaking their truth... If one listens to what is being said, none of what these few are saying sounds so wrong. Much of their words seem very much common sense. Yet, I have not witnessed anyone quoting words they find objective. Only indignation against the 20 persons that are holding out.
   
   So, is this bunch wrong for holding out, or are they just standing up for the people that sent them to Washington? I think many may have forgotten Trump although losing the 2020 election, it was only by about 7,000 voters. The midterms in my view. sort of once again proved we have a split society. So, is it so odd that some congresspersons might speak up for the "other side"? I mean is this not what democracy is all about? Yet, I must admit it truely appears in this incident both sides are dissatisfied with the delay in voting for a new House speaker.  Can we not accept different views on the Congressional floor?  We send our individual Representatives to Washington. Is it not acceptible that they will represent different opinions, due to the state they represent? 
   
   Media is pushing the narrative of a messed up Congressional House, and not making any mention that this is exactly how democracy works.
   
   Social media has eaten up the whole pie, and are indignant about the disruption on the House floor, they sort of tucked democracy in a hole, and covered it up.
   
   For me, I still prefer free speech, to closed mouths, and closed minds.

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      Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Democracy and The Business of the house cannot proceed until the speaker is elected. So, essentially these 20 have disabled that body.  Representatives can't even be sworn in.
      And now the freedom caucus is railing behind Donalds??? Again, what is the point of all of this? Mr McCarthy is anointed by Donald Trump so where's the issue here??  How long should 20 with minority views hold the country hostage?

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      1. 86

         Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         In my view, which is all I have at this point, the Republican's that fall further right and taking this opportunity to be heard.  They have made different points today than yesterday. Clearly, it was pointed out that Byron D. Is new, and they consider him outside the Washington Swamy politicians. They want to point out the holdouts want something new, not the same old.  If one thinks, this is not all bad. Their reasonings seem to be just making a point.
         
         It is obvious that they want McCarthy to step away, and a new candidate is put forth. I think in the end this will not happen, the 20 will either vote majority or Republicans will lose the House speaker seat.  This will certainly be detrimental to the Republican party. What will it show? It shows me, this bunch stood on principle and dammed the party.
         
         I would think more would realize Trump no longer carries the power he once did.  However, I feel his agenda does, and that is why we are seeing this display. However,  It is clear this small split party could doom the Republicans. There is no doubt about that.

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            peoplepower73posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            I think obstructing congress and causing it to become dysfunctional is selfishness to the nth degree. You said they are standing on their principal.  Can you list what their principals are other than shutdown the business of the government.  You said they want to be heard...what do they want to tell the public?

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               peoplepower73posted 2 years agoin reply to this

               Sharlee:  Don't bother to answer.  I found the answer myself.  A majority of them believe the election was stolen by Biden.  It's all here.
               
               https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 … 2e1c7daa33

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                  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Please consider this --- Trump in the last few days has tried to rally his supporters to vote for McCarthy.

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                     wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                     Sorry, the answer already came down on stone tablets, so to speak.  The NYT speaks for God, don't ya know?

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                  GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  I think there are many things this group of 20 may be reasonably criticized for. Still, those things are primarily subjective and highly partisan so it should be easy to see the possibility of a different perspective.
                  
                  I have the luxury of only knowing what the media is showing and it is, as Sharlee noted, 'democracy in action.' We should be glad we have it. That is relative to the process we're seeing: a minority forcing a majority to hear their voice. Whether they are election-deniers or philosophers is secondary.
                  
                  Your question about "principles" is a fair one. I don't agree with election deniers, but that label needs a qualifier. I don't agree with Trump-level election deniers. I think it is foolish to declare no election fraud in a nationwide voting system like ours, but Trump's claims are a different thing.
                  
                  I'm not looking into those folks' characters or motives either, they will shake out in the end and we will know whether this is an example of democracy at work or a selfish and damaging stunt that should give them the return they deserve.
                  
                  GA

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            2. 72

               abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               “Causing it to become dysfunctional”, priceless.

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                  abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  It has been “dysfunctional“ for a long time, Nancy ran it as IF it was her Castle (not the People’s House) and she was the Queen.
                  Nearly everyone (with the exception of…oh let's say 20 or so) yelled “how high” every time she told them to “jump”.
                  We the People have been the last thing on the minds of the House and of House Speakers for quite some time. I’d call that “dysfunctional”. Something needs to change, something needs to give and a few that have some power to enact change, have tried their darndest. This historic moment will be remembered for that, IMHO.

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                     wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                     You're right about Pelosi, but I would have mentioned the two impeachments.  Both, the most important and severe thing the House could do, no more than dog and pony, circus media shows for political purposes.

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            3. 86

               Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

               I believe these 20 representatives are standing on their individual principles. I have listened to most in the past two days, and all seem to provide reasons they feel McCarthy is not the man for speaker. Do I myself agree with each individual's reasons --- no. I do agree with their right to free speech on the floor of Congress. I like you feel very frustrated watching this procedure drag on. 
               
               I certainly can't repeat what many of this bunch have offered up in the last two days. I can say I picked up their concerns over these pasted few days.
               Again, each that came up to the podium gave riveting speeches.
               
               I feel they have had their opportunities to offer their grievances. Most are calling for change, and the fact nothing is getting done due to dyed-in-the-wool politicians.  And that the people of America are not being represented.  They claim they stand for change and are no longer willing to be part of a broken Washington.
               
               I do believe in Majority, and you well know. I also believe in free speech.
               It is clear we the GOP have voted, and we have a great majority, and those that are in the minority have been given the floor and shared their concerns, using free speech   It is now time for the minority to capitulate to the majority. 
               
               I don't feel this display was disruptive or dysfunctional. In fact, we have for some decades witnessed a  dysfunctional congress. So, I think the time is overdue for a shake-up such as we are witnessing today.
               
               In my view it allowed democracy to play out before our eyes. However, if these 20 won't come around, I feel they are giving democracy a black eye by not giving the majority its due.
               
               So where one might see dysfunction with this ongoing process, I see democracy playing out. I think many of us have come to think democracy is easy, unfortunately, it appears it is no longer easy, status quo, but can be messy.  Change does not always come easy.  Many are craving change, hence our huge societal split.  I don't think we that want change will stop pushing for change, no matter what. If one thing comes out of all of this, that sentiment should stand out very clearly.

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                  wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  "In my view it allowed democracy to play out before our eyes."
                  
                  It seems a good example of at least some politicians refusing to toe the party line.  Now if we could only get a couple of hundred of them...
                  
                  On another note, those Republicans NOT toeing the line are a good example to Democrats that still do.  How about some Democrats voting for what the majority want?  Or must they toe their own line regardless of the example being set of what politicians should be?

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9. 86

   Sharlee01posted 2 years ago

   Update ---   " House votes to adjourn until Thursday
   Shortly after the House reconvened, Rep. Tom Cole of Oklahoma made a motion for the House to adjourn until 12 p.m. Thursday. Democrats were urged to vote "no" on the motion to adjourn, according to a notice from Democratic Whip Katherine Clark.
   
   Amid shouts of "aye" and "no" from members on the floor, Rep. Pete Aguilar asked for a roll call vote.
   
   The motion passed 216 to 214. All Democrats and four Republicans — Reps. Andy Biggs, Lauren Boebert, Eli Crane, and Matt Gaetz — opposed the request to adjourn until Thursday.
   
   "This House stands adjourned until noon tomorrow," the House clerk said."
   https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/ho … 022-01-04/
   
   It would seem the 20 holdouts have had ample time to share their grievances on the
   House Floor.  I would hope it is time to find solutions and start considering the majority's views.
   
   Will these 20 hold out and force the option of a straight-up majority rule vote?
   
   My own hopes are they respect their Republican colleague's views, and vote for their party. It would seem this bunch needs to consider the consequences of cutting off their noses to spite their faces.  They had the opportunity to share their concerns. They had the great benefits of freedom of speech. Will the holdouts move into a right to protest ultimately using their votes? Will they do so at the cost of Republicans losing the speakership?

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      abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Yes absolutely hold out, McCarthy should have bowed out, long before it goes to the 8th vote or whatever it now is! He IS the status quo. He is a moderate rino and not much better than Mitch in the Senate.

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         Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         The man has been completely  aligned with Mr Trump. He has publicly bent the knee and kissed the ring countless times. How is he now considered a RINO??

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            abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Because he will "bend a knee" to whomever he needs at any particular time.

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               Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

               He does have a history of doing so... His history shows this time and time again.

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                  abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Although, John James (whom I love) gave quite the compelling speech on behalf of McCarthy.

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                     Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes, he did. John James represents my district in Michigan. I could not be more pleased that we sent him to Washington.

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                        abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                        He's a keeper!

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      peoplepower73posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Sharlee: 
      
      Right now the government cannot function until the new members of the house are sworn in by whomever becomes speaker of the house.
      
      Whatever the outcome is, the real test is going to be how well the GOP plays together when it comes time to fund the budget and the national debt.  Let's see if they hold out and shutdown the government until they get what they want.
      
      Those bills have to be paid for the last fiscal year and funded for the next fiscal year or the government cannot function. Let's see if they hold out until our credit rating is affected, like what they have done in the past.

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         Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         This will bare watching. I would predict they will buck an open-ended type of spending as they have in the past.
         
         I have read the Republicans are looking clean debt limit increase.
         
         Consecutive that are holding up the vote on the new  Speaker, say he must insist on using the debt limit as leverage to enact major spending reforms — something that Senate Democrats have dismissed as a non-starter over the past decade. 
         
         So, I would think we will see once again a fight.
         
         I must take the time to wish you a Happy New Year.

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10. 72

    abwilliamsposted 2 years ago

    I'm conservative, I am not a Republican. I don't give them a pass willy-nilly. That's what Dems do.
    Just fyi & as a reminder.

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11. 68

    IslandBitesposted 2 years ago

    After he mocked Trump' "sad" plea for McCarthy. Is Gaetz trying to appease Trump and his followers fury, or is he still trolling him? Keep reminding him he is no longer in control? A sad lonely vote, again and again?

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    Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years ago

    How Republicans in Congress unraveled isn’t a mystery. There’s a straight line from Newt Gingrich to the Tea Party to Donald Trump to Lauren Boebert saying she wants a “single-member motion to vacate.” Such a motion would mean that any member of the House, at any time, could call a new Speaker election. In other words: The Speakership would be held hostage by whichever congressperson was feeling craziest that day. Mr. McCarthy has already agreed to a five-member threshold for a motion to vacate, which means that five members can get together and throw sand in the gears whenever they want. Not exactly a recipe for legislative success.
    
    This is the stench of Trumpism being laid bare before America. Republicans created a cult of personality around Trump. And now that Trump is off the main stage, the cult no longer has a personality. It’s just a cult with lots of zealotry but no actual tenets or beliefs. And even if  Mr. McCarthy does eventually prevail, the chaos gripping the House GOP is just a symptom of a larger problem. The Republican Party isn’t really a governing party anymore. It’s an incubator for right-wing celebrities. Republicans didn’t even bother writing a new convention platform in 2020, relying on its reality television host’s demented 'charisma'. And when that didn’t work, and Joe Biden decisively beat Trump, the majority of House Republicans tried overturning the election.
    
    This intrinsic weakness in the GOP allowed the base to run wild, embracing everything from anti-science stupidity to paranoid conspiracy theories. Perhaps, in 2015, Trump led the base. But by 2020, He had lost control of the monster he created. The base decided to reward social media stunts with small-dollar donations. Fox News and the right-wing internet ecosystem created a world of mini Trumps, little congressional bomb-throwers like Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Matt Gaetz. More motivated by fame than governing, these members seem to want what Real Housewives want: to build their brands. These congressional Kardashians don’t have a governing principle beyond obstruction and attention, of which they’ve all been getting amid this week’s party meltdown. 
    
    Whether or not Mr.  McCarthy eventually wins the Speakership, this ugly episode is sure to do lasting damage to the party. Republicans are in disarray, and the more they pretend they aren’t, the more clueless they look. Trump and Trumpism have now lost Republicans three elections, but still the party refuses to learn anything from its mistakes. Republicans are scared to take the perhaps short-term political hit to disavow the ash heap of Trumpism. If anything, they seem to be looking for another cult leader to lead them. The party that was once hostage to Trump is now hostage to Lauren Boebert and Matt Gaetz and his merry band of misfit toys.
    
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/01 … p-trumpism

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       abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

       TDS.

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    Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years ago

    This GOP is  a motley collection of traditionalists, extremists and chaosmongers failing repeatedly and historically to choose a House speaker. Sadly this is previewing two years of even worse: incompetence, immaturity and irresponsibility that will hammer the whole country. We’ve learned a lot this week. We’ve learned that House Republicans can’t count votes, they can’t solve problems and they apparently can’t abide each other.
    If Republicans care about leading  and convincing voters they are capable of doing so  they should use this time to show the country what they could do if they regain control of Washington.
    
    So far, they’ve failed.  Come on already, I've got better odds at winning the mega millions jackpot tonight than does Mr McCarthy  at winning the speakership.

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       abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

       This "motley" crew are the only ones in D.C. (since Trump) looking out for the best interest of the American people. Until real change comes, nothing good will come to the American people. The divide between the haves and the have nots will grow. Our Nation will wither to the point of no return.
       I admire any individual or motley crew or whatever/who ever....that dares to take a stand and seeks to make a difference within our lives, for our well-being and for the well-being of this once proud and mighty Nation.

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          peoplepower73posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          ab: I hate to tell you this. What you wrote is nothing more than political buzzwords and platitudes with no substance as to what is really taking place.  It's like a politicians speech speaking in gross generalities. Do you even understand what the freedom caucus is really about, other than they want change...change to what?

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             abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

             How about Government of, by and for the people, mixed in with measured reason and common sense, not Government on steroids doing as it pleases, with power-hungry, controlling, politicians feeding the beast...for starters!

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                abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                My words are from my observations, always have been, always will be!

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                gmwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                I second this statement.  Government is way out of control.

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    Sharlee01posted 2 years ago

    The 20 holdouts certainly have pointed out the fact that the Government is well-broken, and has been for a long time. They are pointing out the corruption that has long occurred. They are saying (no matter if we want to hear it ) the buck stops here.  If one is willing to listen, these Congresspersons, for the better part, are pointing out problems, and the need for change. The problems they speak of are old lingering problems, complaints many of us have surely shared.
    
    I guess we need to ask ourselves, do we see the problem that our present way of doing business has caused?  Just a week ago we watched a huge massive $1.7 trillion omnibus bill. We watched congresspersons admitting it was dumped on them 48 hours before it needed to be signed. We have now learned that the bill held over 1000 earmarks (added by both parties) that many were considered to be frivolous.
    
    The media hyped a Government shutdown if the bill was not shoved through within hours of Congress receiving the huge bill.   How often have we witnessed this kind of total
    incompetence?     This is the status quo in congress. And we the People seem to care little about anything but unfortunately what the media says we should be concentrating on. In this case push through a speaker --- we need to have Congress working right now!
    
    So, how long do we not address the status quo problems that
    we see our congress committing? Not reading bills, adding ridiculous earmarks to already bloated funding bills?  How long do we pay for all their earmarks? Until we go bankrupt...
    
    So, the 20 that are holding out, and making some very uncomfortable facts known to We The People --- may be time to stop spinning and have another look at what we are seeing, and maybe realize it is us that have perpetuated this day. The very day some stood up and said -- The Buck Stops Here.
    
    I think this is historical, and I think we will get a new speaker, but we should also get a wake-up call.  We are a big part of the problem. We want it all, and we want it now, as the media has directed us to.
    
    It seems we don't care about the problems anymore, just the inconvenience of having them. Do we want the Representatives to sign bills without having the opportunity to read the bill? 
    
    
    Maybe time to slow down, and really think about fixing problems, instead of adding to them.
    
    It may be time to really bite the bullet and realize we the people need to face up to the mess and start to clean it up. That rug we have been shoving all under is about to implode.

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       Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

       But they're holding up these proceedings asking for key committee positions for themselves  and allowing just one member launch a motion to vacate??  Yes they are saying some of what you mentioned in their flowery nominating speeches but ultimately their real goals seem to be self-serving.  How is this fixing anything? The motion to vacate seems like an open invitation to chaos at every turn. That seems to be all that this 20 wants.

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          Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          I have not heard that the holdouts are asking for positions for themselves. I don't think that the motion to vacate thing is a big deal. I mean yes, one can stand up with a motion, but that motion still is put to a vote. So, I would think this might be a good thing. The majority would still rule, and plus it could work to point out problems in Congress.
          
          I think one needs to understand the Freedom Caucus. They have simple, but actually common sense ideas. One such idea is term limits. I think many of us here have agreed that term limits might be a positive thing.
          
          They represent some pretty good changes. However, these changes have rubbed many in Washington the wrong way. They don't want the status quo. I think we all could agree our present Congress does not work, it is broken.
          https://perry.house.gov/uploadedfiles/h … 5.2022.pdf
          
          I will say I hope all in Congress is taking note, that we do have an element that is willing to fight for some changes. I hope McCarthy will also realize he can be a speaker that needs to listen and realize he will be pointed out every time he is not working for we the people but working for the Washington swamp people.
          
          A great watchdog can keep the fox out of the hen house.

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             wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

             On the whole, I like the program in the link you gave.  Not sure of #1, perhaps because it looks like an increase in partisanship, but I may not understand the effect, either.
             
             I particularly like the demands on spending bills.  We desperately need to rein in the massive overspending, and that includes that of both parties.  The current method of ensuring "loyalty", of both people and states, is to fund state's needs - needs that they should be doing themselves, and that must end if we are to survive financially and with a massive nanny state controlling everything in sight.

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                Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                I am so pleased to realize you had a look at the link. No really, I don't think that many know what ideas the Freedom Caucus represents. Many are very common sense ideas, and many here on HP have even mentioned some of these ideas themselves as being positive.
                
                I mean could it hurt to have someone in Congress holding some feet to the fire?  It almost seems some here are more upset about the few days of a setback than really seeing change. Like the confusion has them in a frenzy. More or less off balance due to the --- I want it now syndrome that the media is pretty much pushing at this point. 
                
                It's almost like some can't see through the fog anymore... Or just don't want to.

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                   peoplepower73posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                   Sharlee:  Thank you for the link.  I read it and in my view, I think it is a proposal for policy and procedures, and mission statement for the GOP "Peoples House." I posted specifics of what I think, they want to accomplish, but no one has replied except ab. So I'm posting them here as well. By the way, Happy New Years to you  as well.
                   
                   Here are a list of things I think they want:
                   
                   Impeach Biden and Kamala Harris - So they want whomever is speaker to then become POTUS. Prove that Hunter Biden and his dad are involved in the alleged Burisma conspiracy deal.
                   
                   Lower the national debt - Each president inherits the debt of the previous president when they take office. It will never be lowered
                   
                   Reduce the funding of the fiscal budget. - Whether we like it or not, we have to pay for debt that was incurred in the previous fiscal year and fund the government for the next fiscal year.
                   
                   We have to pay the interest incurred on the national debt. I don't care how long the government is shutdown, the debt has to be paid. The longer it's shutdown, the lower are credit rating becomes in the world's financial  markets.
                   
                   Stop funding Ukraine and giving them arms to fight Putin's Russia. - We are funding them in a proxy war.  If we didn't, we would have to go to war with Russia ourselves.
                   
                   Lower the interest rate- The interest rate is controlled by the Fed's not the president or congress.
                   
                   Privatize social security- That's been tried before too many retirees are dependent on social security.
                   
                   Remove Obama Care - Tried before, it didn't work because it is more than an insurance policy.  It is has policies and procedures that are interconnected to to the entire health care industry.  It can't be replaced with a 19 page insurance policy as was tried by Paul Ryan when he was speaker of the house
                   
                   Shutdown the southern border to any and all immigrants who try to cross the border.
                   
                   These are some of the things I think they want.  Please tell me if I'm right or wrong and give me an articulated list of what you think they want, not just change and no status quo.

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                   wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                   Maybe that's why so few know; they are common sense.  One of the most uncommon things in the country today.

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             GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

             You made me peek. I didn't dive in but I did look around. From your link's description of the caucus' official purpose, I think they could speak for a lot of people—not just Republican conservatives, even moderate Conservative people.
             
             Congress's approval rating should be proof that folks think legislative actions need to change—not just the people but the workings. The most recent Omnibus bill looks like glaring proof of the need to reduce the Speaker's control of the handling of legislation.
             
             As an entity, I like their description of the problems, (Perry's "Top Line:" list), and their goals but, some of the people of that entity are way too radical for me, and even worse, many of those 'radicals' are idiot radicals: the election denier-types et al. And even 'worser', many of that many smell like ambitious politicians, not ambitious legislators.
             
             The 'rules' changes they forced during this Leadership battle look positive to me.
             
             GA

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                Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                Hard to get beyond the fact that absolutely all of them voted not to certify The 2020 election while advancing multiple conspiracy theories and Q concepts. In my book, these people aren't tethered to reality.
                I don't think Mr Paul Gosar is mentally intact.
                
                I predict that Mr Kevin will be strung up for a vote on the motion to vacate within the month.
                https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat … frame.html

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                   GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                   Yep, getting past their election denials is hard. At this point, their Trump-level denial is nuts. But, relative to the caucus itself, the election-deniers of the '20' look like a minority.
                   
                   GA

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                Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                Can't say how pleased I am you had a look-see at the link I offered.
                
                I have similar thoughts in regard to a few of the members, I am sure you know of whom I speak.  I voted for change in 2016, I voted for a man I knew from the start would be a disruptor. I feel I got my money's worth. Yes, we have witnessed unbelievable turmoil, but has it not worked to wake up a public that needed to pay more attention to what is going on in Government?   Have we not been in a status quo coma for some time?
                
                I think this week (although nerve-racking) has proved once again, some will not return to the status quo, or at best they will kick and scream all the way. Could this not be a good thing?  Do we need political parties that just vote party, and not move away from the crowd? Is it not more beneficial to have many views presented, and many avenues to explore, than a one-way street?
                
                The Freedom Caucus will be made the new enemy number one. I am sure as I write this very comment,  the little fingers of the left are in overdrive this am.
                
                I will be delving into the members and making an attempt to learn all I can about the Freedom Caucus agenda. Thus far, as have learned they have hopes of mending a broken Congress, and that some of their ideas for rule changes mimic many of my own. I will add many of these ideas have been discussed right here on Hubpages as being positive ideas.
                
                I think this week actually showed me once again how our democracy still works. I think many have forgotten just how our democracy works. It works by giving us the right to free speech, debate, and negotiations, not by beating down opposing views, and canceling them out, but by reasoning, and respecting others' rights to share opposing views.
                
                I am very pleased this morning, I have a bit more hope for the Country.

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    Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years ago

    Doesn't matter who the speaker is at this point. The freedom caucus is going to render that individual absolutely useless. If it's McCarthy? We will see the weakest leader in history.  Essentially a puppet of the loud mouth, conspiracy spewing, Q touting, election deniers  on the  far right.  Settle in folks, the payback circus is about to begin.

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       wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

       I think you're right - the circus is about to begin.  Personally I expect to see Biden impeached, maybe several times.  I expect his kids to be hounded half to death.  I expect other upper Democrats to suffer the same fate.  All for no more than political revenge.
       
       I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see any good coming out of DC for some time.  Not bi-partisan border control, not bi-partisan crime fighting, not bi-partisan economic sense, nothing at all.

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       Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

       I think you are correct in your view that we will see some payback will begin. In my view, this is something the Dems' will not take well. They tend to be hypocrites.  They can dish it out, but show little common sense when it comes to understanding why what's good for one side is also good for the other.

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    Readmikenowposted 2 years ago

    Interesting response on this thread.  I don't think any of you know exactly what you are talking about.  It is entertaining to read.
    
    I'm a Republican.  I've been involved in Republican politics for decades.
    
    1. Many people in the Republican party are cheering these holdouts.  After the election, McCarthy was told this would happen. He ignored it and thought everyone would just fall into place and he could ignore their concerns.  He was wrong.
    
    2. Many of us believe this is going to be an important correction within the Republican party.  Too many Republican leaders have given into the Democrats and not stood their ground.  McCarthy handling of the Jan. 6 commission and the Republicans put on it is one of many examples.  This, and many other things he has done, enraged many of us.
    
    3. Now that those Republicans holdouts have forced so many votes, conservative concerns are being heard.  The committee chairmanships are now more in line with the makeup of the party.  McCarthy will eventually win the speakership.  He will know conservatives can and will work together to remove him.
    
    4. This is a good thing for the Republican party.
    
    5. After having years of biden/harris in charge of things there may be nothing our country can't endure.  This country has proven it can handle many things.  The speakership is a mild thing compared to our current executive branch.

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       peoplepower73posted 2 years agoin reply to this

       I have tried researching what the 20 holdouts want, but have not been able to find what they are really asking for except change.  Is there anybody on this forum who can list what they are really asking for other than not the status quo and change in the business of governing?
       
       Here are a list of things I think they want:
       
       Impeach Biden and Kamala Harris - So they want whomever is speaker to then become POTUS. Prove that Hunter Biden and his dad are involved in the Burisma conspiracy deal.
       
       Lower the national debt - Each president inherits the debt of the previous president when they take office. It will never be lowered
       
       Reduce the funding of the fiscal budget. - Whether we like it or not, we have to pay for debt that was incurred in the previous fiscal year and fund the government for the next fiscal year.
       
       We have to pay the interest incurred on the national debt. I don't care how long the government is shutdown, the debt has to be paid. The longer it's shutdown, the lower are credit rating becomes in the world's financial  markets.
       
       Stop funding Ukraine and giving them arms to fight Putin's Russia. - We are funding them in a proxy war.  If we didn't, we would have to go to war with Russia ourselves.
       
       Lower the interest rate- The interest rate is controlled by the Fed's not the president or congress.
       
       Privatize social security- That's been tried before too many retirees are dependent on social security.
       
       Remove Obama Care - Tried before, it didn't work because it is more than an insurance policy.  It is has policies and procedures that are interconnected to to the entire health care industry.  It can't be replaced with a 19 page insurance policy as was tried by Paul Ryan when he was speaker of the house
       Shutdown the southern border to any and all immigrants who try to cross the border.
       
       These are some of the things I think they want.  Please tell me if I'm right or wrong and give me an articulated list of what you think they want, not just change and no status quo.

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          abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Here's my list:
          
          Accountability

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             peoplepower73posted 2 years agoin reply to this

             That's nice.  How about accountability for Trump, Jan. 6 and secret documents that he stole?

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          Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          It really doesn't involve any of those issues.
          
          The Speaker of the House determines who can be the chairman of the various Congressional Committees.  Everything from the rules committee, budget committee, etc.
          
          Too many times McCarthy has let the RINO wing of the part be on the important committees.  Individuals who never challenged anything the democrats did.
          
          McCarthy needed to know that the conservative part of the Republican party will be made chairman of various committees.  The conservatives are now the majority.
          
          He also knows if he caves into the democrats, as he has in the past, there will be consequences.
          
          So, many of the Republicans who have been in Congress too long and just go with the flow are going to have to change.
          
          This is what the American people voted to have and there are now Republicans in Congress who plan to deliver.
          
          I think the struggle for McCarthy to get a majority after so many votes has been a good thing for the Republican party as well as the country.

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    tsmogposted 2 years ago

    Regarding the Freedom Caucus, I discovered what they sent to new members. It is very thorough laying it out from ground zero. Definitely educational to those who know less than others. And, it can be seen as the skinny of things, the rules of how to play the game, or a 'Platform' of sorts. Worth a skim and a bookmark.
    
    A Road Map for Incoming Republican Members of Congress 
    https://aboutblaw.com/5EV

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       Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

       Scott Perry has little to no credibility.
       Starting immediately after the 2020 presidential election, Rep. Perry pushed conspiracy theories about election fraud to anyone who would listen, and importantly, to Mark Meadows. He wanted U. S. intelligence agencies to investigate Dominion voting machines for signs of voter fraud or foreign interference. He told Meadows the British and Italian governments were manipulating U.S. elections via satellites, and alleged CIA Director Gina Haspel had conspired with them. Perry has a long history of supporting conspiracy theories, including some from QAnon.
       
       https://www.politicspa.com/report-meado … at/116349/

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          tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          So? That has no bearing on that it was sent out, does it? Did you read it? What about it do you disagree with? As a learner, I would be interested as I do respect your knowledge and position.

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          Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          This media report was fact-checked in regard to 'He told Meadows the British and Italian governments were manipulating U.S. elections via satellites,"
          https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac … 970957002/
          
          Nothing but a cheap media  left ploy.

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             Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

             Mr Perry has a long history of crazy commentary. His text exchanges with Mr Meadows that were brought forward by the January 6th committee show the detachment from reality. The man even asked for a pardon.   But yet he is only one troubling member of the freedom caucus. They all have a history of colorful fantastical statements.

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                Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                I don't think it was ever proved factually that Perry asked to be Pardoned. I do know ---
                
                'In her opening statements at the fifth House January 6th Select Committee hearing, Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney teased proof that some of her GOP House colleagues sought “pardons for their conduct” from former President Trump in the days following the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol."
                
                "“Mr. Perry asked for a pardon, too,” Hutchinson said.
                
                When asked if Perry talked to her directly, she responded, “Yes, he did.”
                
                This contradicts denials from Perry that he ever requested a pardon. Following Hutchinson’s sworn deposition, he referred to the situation as a “false pardon narrative.”
                
                “I stand by my statement that I never sought a Presidential pardon for myself or other Members of Congress,” a Perry spokesman wrote in a statement. “At no time did I speak with Miss Hutchinson, a White House scheduler, nor any White House staff about a pardon for myself or any other Member of Congress — this never happened.”
                https://www.wesa.fm/politics-government … surrection
                
                So who to beleive?

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                   Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                   https://www.penncapital-star.com/campai … -analysis/
                   
                   "More than a month later, Perry texted Meadows a YouTube link detailing another conspiracy theory: that votes were changed by Italian satellites.
                   
                   "Why can't we just work with the Italian government?" Perry wrote. According to the text logs, Meadows does not appear to have responded to that message, emails released by the Senate Judiciary Committee last year show he did forward the same video link to then-acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen hours later."

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                      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                      I don't think I can say Perry was not one that felt there was election fraud. However, his emails just show him concerned and offer suggestions on how to go about preserving information, and yes a few off-the-handle views.  And he denies ever asking the President for a pardon.
                      "The notion that I ever sought a Presidential pardon for myself or other Members of Congress is an absolute, shameless, and soulless lie," Perry wrote on Twitter on Friday."
                      
                      I would be more interested to see some true factual quotes from this man today about his views in regard to the  2020 election.

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                Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                You perhaps need to offer a link that Perry is quoted. He has denied much of what the media has put out. So a quote would help.

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                   Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                   https://www.penncapital-star.com/campai … -analysis/
                   
                   https://www.ydr.com/story/news/politics … 363103007/

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                      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                      You know Faye, not sure how we came to be talking about one member of the freedom caucus, and not the subject presented, which want the caucus itself represents. 
                      
                      Do you find what they are proposing in their agenda harmful? 
                      
                      I am not up to ripping apart each member.  My point in bringing up the Freedom Caucus was to point out that they have some very good ideas. And hope to work on many of the problems many of us here have been bitching about for years. (that includes our friends on the left) I see this past week as David running toward Goliath time and time again and winning.  A big win against the Washington status quo. So, no not up to canceling anyone out. I will leave that up to the media.
                      
                      I am not up for ripping up the Freedom Caucus member one by one.
                      
                      Me, I am putting on rose-colored glasses, and am willing to give them a chance, and hope they fight like hell to make things better in Congress. Because right now, I see it as corrupt and broken. I love change, and those brave enough to fight for it.

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          GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          What if a hypothetical agreement was given about your criticisms of Perry? How would you dissect the stated goals of the caucus to find his hand behind them? Which of the goals do think are wrong, (or nefarious)?
          
          As stated, they mostly sound like good ideas to me. There were some with concerning wording, but the direction of their intent seems right. These questions to you aren't confrontational, they're discussion points.
          
          Ga

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       Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you for this link. I will read it from start to finish.

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          tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          For me, it was very informative providing a timeline of sorts for what will happen for what or who with explanations for function. In other words, how the flow goes for setting up a new congress. Though I may or may not agree with the changes they prefer and why, I can't argue with the facts presented.
          
          The segment for new members on how to set themself up to function, e.g. organizing a staff, opened my eyes to the responsibilities congresspersons have.
          
          I suspect it is similar to a new Democrat congress process. I would like something similar from them as it does give a hint about the power structure and organization of the party.

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       GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

       That was a good read tsmog, a long one, but informative.
       
       I bet if anti-Freedom Caucus folks read it they would find a lot of common ground to discuss—before any participant names are included, of course. ;-)
       
       GA

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          tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, most definitely, a lengthy read, but in my mind after reading it well worth it!!! I just now skimmed through it to see how much I retained overnight. You know, old guy stuff ha-ha In the future I may read it again.
          
          To me, it drilled the importance of procedure (Rules) while having somewhat of an emphasis on the importance of the voice of a representative, any representative. A somewhat gut reaction is the question, "Do I send 'my' representative to congress to simply rubber stamp what the leadership's position is without consideration . . . any consideration?"
          
          I would think that is of importance for any citizen no matter what party. In other words, is my representative representing me?
          
          Still being a gut reaction I truly got a real glimpse of how the game is played at least by the Republican party seeing the power structure and organization. Can I draw parallels with the Democratic party?
          
          The bottom line for me though I knew there was complexity, I in essence just assumed it. Now, I have a 'glimpse' and greater curiosity about it.

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    tsmogposted 2 years ago

    Just for giggles McCarthy on Twitter as of 26 minutes ago (Now 9:13 Pacific coast) was in the 31st spot. What is being said is below:
    
    https://twitter.com/search?q=%22Speaker+McCarthy%22

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       Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

       Mikel Jollett
       @Mikel_Jollett
       ·
       12h
       So all it took for Kevin McCarthy to become Speaker was to concede massive power to the people who tried to overthrow the US government on the f*cking anniversary of the day it happened
       
       Agreed!

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          tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          I found it interesting with the opposing perspectives and got some giggles too with the witty posts of some. That is why I like comedians revealing stark truths over the years such as George Carlin or Lenny Bruce. Gives one pause to reflect after a good chuckle.
          
          10 Best Political Comedians Of All Time
          https://www.mic.com/articles/56107/10-b … f-all-time

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          abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Hear, hear!

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             abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

             This tweet and the fact that you thought it required sharing, makes as much sense as my response to it.

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          Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Cute tweet, but not too imaginative.  However, very good sloppy feed.
          
          Concede or perhaps compromise?  It is clear the FC does not march to the same Congressionaltune -    let's keep it just like it is, broken and not working for the people, but working out well for us" 
          
          The FC was heard and proved they could get some changes agreed upon.  In my view, that is progress in itself.

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    abwilliamsposted 2 years ago

    Hear, hear!

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       gmwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

       Kevin McCarthy was just elected House Speaker.

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       Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

       I guess I am one of the people that hope the Freedom Caucus might give me a voice as an American. I feel that Washington does not represent me any longer. The FC clearly supports open, accountable and limited government, the Constitution and the rule of law, and policies that promote the liberty, safety, and prosperity of all Americans.  So, in a nutshell, they support a pure form of conservative values.  This is pleasing to me.

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          Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Based on the history of nearly all of its members, the freedom caucus motives are highly suspect.  A few years ago they were supporting the overthrowing of the government. They were supporting the blocking of a peaceful transfer of power. They supported election denial and all of them voted not to certify the 2020 election.  Mr Ralph Norman of South Carolina wanted to invoke martial law. Mr Perry wanted to seize voting machines. None of this is normal or ok. 
          It's difficult to see these people as anything other than extremists.

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             abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

             It is perfectly normal and okay when a core group of powerful and corrupt individuals are working against the will of the people.

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             Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

             Right after the Jan 6th riot much was said by many that were born out of frustration, and not knowing or comprehending the situation. If one researches the comment made by Ralph Norman, the context of his words may not be as hyperbolic.
             
             I know the Perry information that the media offered was well twisted out of proportion.   
             
             Was it normal or business as usual for a president, and many of our Government officials to claim there may have been fraud? No, it was not. Do I feel it was uncalled for, no?  I think many felt, and still feel fraud occurred. 
             
             I think we have seen enough corruption from the Democratic party by 2020 that it was not out of the ballpark that they would pull election fraud.
             
             IMO, They are pure slime.

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                peoplepower73posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                Sharlee:  Claiming there was fraud and obstructing the peaceful transfer of power to a duly elected president are two different things.  And now the excuses start about Jan. 6, when in fact, Trump is at the center of the whole thing. 
                
                You can try to minimize the truth, but the truth is the truth. He is now playing the role of the god father by influencing the outcome of the house speaker election process. Trump is a civilian and has no right calling in to talk to Gaetz and others to influence the vote while the house is in session, in my view.

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                   Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                   I was simply pointing out that right after the 2020 elections accusations were being made by many, including Trump, and many in the Republican party. many were pushing for investigations, and many lawsuits were being filed. Many may have said things out of frustration, and hopefully to take time to consider if fraud had occurred. I am with you that by the time Jan 6t h came around it was time to move on, and accept no fraud was proven.
                   
                   I am not minimizing the truth, only pointing out possibilities for some actions.
                   
                   It is clear, after hearing House Speaker McCarthy thank Trump for his help, and touting his support, Trump does have some influence over the party. Yes, Trump is a civilian,  he has the right to call anyone, as anyone has the right not to take his call. Was he calling congresspeople while they were in the House?  I had not heard that. I know he was leaving remarks on Truth Social, as he does daily. I think Trump is here to say.
                   
                   It appears Trump is not backing away from running thus far, and he does have influence with many Republicans. If he is charged with a crime he can still run. Although, I would think he would lose if convicted of a crime.
                   
                   I am pulling for two new candidates. We need change.

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                      Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                      Why would Mr McCarthy bother thanking Mr Trump for anything?  He looks like an unbelievable suck up. Mr Trump had been urging members to vote for McCarthy for a week or more with no result.    Again, in my opinion Mr McCarthy is a man who stands for nothing except his own self-interest.  I'd give him less than a month before he's strung up for a vote by the freedom caucus.

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    GA Andersonposted 2 years ago

    Here ya go, Happy Sunday morning to all the folks that think the sky is falling and the crazies are running the asylum.
    
    I think this was my first-ever retweet:
    
    Everything changes once you know what McCarthy and Gaetz were actually saying
    
    GA

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       abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

       OMG too funny. Thanks for providing the Sunday Comics.

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       Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

       I absolutely love the person that concocted this tweet. So funny. I would so love to know what was said in that exchange. I mean whatever it was caused Congressman Rogers to try to physically attack Gaetz.
       
       I would more like to know what was said when Gaetz later shook McCarthy's hand, after voting Nay to adjourn.

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