Cornel West Came Out Swinging Against The Democratic Party

1. 85

   Sharlee01posted 12 months ago

   
   
   Third-party 'spoiler' candidate Cornel West says Democratic Party is 'beyond redemption'
   
   Green Party presidential candidate Cornel West came out swinging against the Democratic Party establishment and progressive Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., for endorsing President Biden.
   
   West — a high-profile racial activist and academic who Democrats worry may spoil Biden's re-election bid in 2024 — remarked that the Democratic Party is "beyond redemption," during an interview Tuesday with The Hill’s "Rising." The Green Party candidate added that Sanders' recent argument that Biden represents progressives' best hope to stave off authoritarianism wasn't persuasive.
   
   "I think that Brother Bernie’s being consistent. He has said that all along, and I can understand the argument. I think it’s a plausible argument. I just don’t think it’s a persuasive one," West said. "I think that the argument he’s making means that there’s never any possibility for breaking from the corporate duopoly, there’s never any possibility of trying to speak to the needs of poor working people."
   
   "I think deep down in his heart he knows that the Democratic Party has no fundamental intention of speaking to the needs of poor people and working people," he continued. "They are dominated by their corporate wing, they're dominated by the militarists when it comes to foreign policy. He and [Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez] and the others are going to be, in a certain sense, window dressing."
   
   West further argued that the Democratic Party cannot be saved from certain forces within and that voters should be given an alternative to established parties.
   
   "The Democratic Party is beyond redemption at this point when it comes to seriously speaking to the needs of poor and working people," West stated. "The neofascism that's escalating is predicated on the rottenness of a system in which the Democratic Party facilitates frustration and desperation because it can't present an alternative. If America is not able to present an alternative to the Democratic Party, then we're going fascism.
   
   "Now, Brother Bernie understands that, don't get me wrong, he's on my side in that sense. But at this particular historical moment, he's on the side of the Democratic establishment rather than the critics of that establishment trying to generate an alternative."
   
   West's comments come as national polling continues to show him taking a key share of the vote from Biden.
   
   According to a poll conducted last week by the Emerson College Polling Center, in a head-to-head matchup between former President Donald Trump and Biden, Trump would receive 44%, Biden would receive 39% and West would receive 4% of the vote. The margin is significantly smaller without West in the race, the survey showed.
   
   West first announced his candidacy in June, running originally for the People’s Party before switching to the Green Party.
   
   Since then, as West has gained support, Democrats like Sanders and Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., and Jim McGovern, D-Mass., have expressed concern about his ability to potentially hurt Biden's re-election chances."
   https://www.foxnews.com/politics/third- … redemption
   
   " If America is not able to present an alternative to the Democratic Party, then we're going fascism." Cornel West
   
   Does this statement ring true, in your view?
   
   It is obvious that Cornel is grabbing some Democrats ' attention, will he take needed votes from  Biden?  For that matter will Robert F. Kennedy Jr. also grab a few votes away from Biden?

   replyreport
   1. 61

      Willowarborposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Some excerpts from an interview with West:
      
      Q: The concern that America is drifting towards some form of fascism, how real is that?
      
      West: Oh, it's very real. It's very real.
      
      I called Trump a neo-fascist gangster about five years ago and people were coming down so hard on me. Now they're using the same language, given the fact that he's calling into question legitimacy of the elections. He's got mechanisms of suppression of the vote.
      We know he's got a disregard towards rule of law. He talks about law and order: it's a joke because he's been running from the law for the last 40-some years trying not to get caught. He's already defunded any regulation of corporations when it comes to the environment and workers' rights and so forth. So you've got all the elements in place of an American-style fascism, there's no doubt about it."
      
      Q: What would American fascism look like compared to German or Italian fascism?
      
      West: "German fascism had vicious, vicious forms of anti-Jewish policies as its public face, whereas the United States would be white supremacy targeting Black folk and brown and Indigenous — but especially Black folk. (For example), the Klan and neo-Nazis and others, those who we confronted in Charlottesville, as you know. But those would be the real public, visible faces of American fascism.
      
      But there would be some similarities in terms of the militarism, the narrow patriotism, the scapegoating of the most vulnerable, the degrading of others in such a way that you unite your white right wing over the non-whites."
      
      I agree with him on his assessment that we could be moving toward fascism under Trump.
      
      He continues with, in my opinion, a great observation:
      
      "If our greed and our hatred and our avarice and our contempt for one another cut so deep that we'd rather have the whole planet go under than to treat each other with some kind of decency, then that's the question of Jonathan Swift and the late Mark Twain: that human beings were just the kind of species that didn't have what it takes to avoid extinction."
      
      Yes I've been reading more about him, I agree with much of what he has to say. He is progressive and philosophical. Those two traits will guarantee he doesn't pick up traction. Far too many Americans prefer more simplistic, linear thinking. 
      
      West's intellectual performance does not fit neatly into the usual academic categories. One of his stated  goals from the beginning, as he himself repeatedly attests, has been "to examine critically the soul of American civilization.". I love it.
      I think he is far too esoteric for mainstream America.
      
      Could he gain some votes? Yes, probably on elite liberal university campuses.

      replyreport
   2. 79

      Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Sharlee,
      
      West is a spoiler, he has no more credibility with the electorate than Pat Paulson had when he ran for President.
      
      He won't be taken seriously. While he complains about the Democratic Party, he complains from a point well to the left of the mainstream. So, the Republicans certainly are not a reasonable alternative. Neither West nor RFK, Jr are acceptable candidates for opposite reasons.
      
      We are watching the GOP, can Mr. Trump avoid conviction and incarceration prior to "Super Tuesday"? In all the confusion, who becomes the viable GOP candidate? Hopefully, I will get to see what remains of the GOP scatters to the 4 winds.
      
      There has been an article that warns our group to watch out for the GOP an its attempt to get Black votes...
      
      https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/why-mag … 00065.html

      replyreport
      1. 85

         Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

         The primary purpose behind my post was to highlight the potential impact of figures like West and RFK, Jr. on diverting Democratic votes from Biden.
         
         From what I've observed, there's no evidence suggesting that the GOP is actively targeting Black voters to a greater extent.
         
         However, I do think that the GOP is focusing on expanding its support among Hispanic voters. They have long appeared to recognize the loyalty of Black citizens to the Democratic Party.
         
         From my view, it seems that residents of Black communities in major cities might be becoming more aware of the surges in crime and drug-related issues. They could be developing a sense that Biden and the Democratic Party are not adequately addressing these growing problems. Additionally, it's important to acknowledge that economically disadvantaged Black individuals are being significantly impacted by the rising monthly living expenses. So, I could see more blacks voting the other way in 2024. One could say, "what do they have to lose"?

         replyreport
         1. 79

            Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

            "The primary purpose behind my post was to highlight the potential impact of figures like West and RFK, Jr. on diverting Democratic votes from Biden."
            
            Yeah, I sort of thought that this what you were alluding to....
            
            As for Hispanic voters, I have heard of GOP outreach regarding them, we will have to see at election time how successful that will actually be.
            
            Black urban dwellers have been aware of crime related problems in certain communities, it is not so much that they are not exasperated with Democrats more than believing that  Republicans would only make serious problems even worse. Trump invited us all in stating what do you have to lose in 2016? Well, the problems we have had with Trump, MAGA and Republican public office holders in the last 7 years tells the tale well enough. You can have that which you presently have taken away from you, we are not going to risk that by throwing away votes to the GOP.

            replyreport
            1. 85

               Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

               Unemployment rates for Blacks hovered for months at or near historic lows. Workers with less than a high school diploma and criminal records left the sidelines of the workforce.
               
               Before the coronavirus, the labor force participation rates of Blacks, prime-age workers 25 to 54, and women ticked up from Obama-era lows. Even years into the Obama economic recovery, these workers were still leaving the labor force.
               
               The Census Bureau just released stunning statistics about the economic well-being of Americans in 2019. Minority groups benefited greatly from the remarkable labor market that preceded the coronavirus epidemic.  https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Cens … 60-270.pdf
               
               President Donald Trump on Oct. 17, 2020, in Norton Shores, Michigan.
               Unemployment rates for Blacks hovered for months at or near historic lows. Workers with less than a high school diploma and criminal records left the sidelines of the workforce.
               
               Before the coronavirus, the labor force participation rates of Blacks, prime-age workers 25 to 54, and women ticked up from Obama-era lows. Even years into the Obama economic recovery, these workers were still leaving the labor force.
               
               High employment under Trump led to minorities experiencing the largest income gains. Real median income grew by 7.9% for Blacks in 2019. That outpaced 2018’s income growth of 2.6% and 2017’s income decline of -2.4%. Notably, Black median income growth last year surpassed income growth rates under the Obama administration. There’s still more work to do though. Although Black median income hit a new high, Blacks earned the lowest income level of all groups (just over $45,000 a year).
               
               Income gains for Blacks translated into real economic mobility. Not only did the poverty rate for Blacks fall to an all time record low in 2019, but it also dipped below 20% for the first time. At the other end of the economic scale, more Black households earned six-figure incomes than the year before.  If Interested read more ---    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ … 081310002/
               
               What did Trump do for education?
               President Trump has led a national conversation on expanding school choice and introduced the most transformative education funding proposal ever, Education Freedom Scholarships. President Trump has twice signed legislation re-authorizing the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship program.Dec 28, 2020
               
               Promise made and kept  --
               
               "President Donald Trump on Thursday signed a bipartisan bill that will permanently provide more than $250 million a year to the nation’s historically black colleges and universities, along with dozens of other institutions that serve large shares of minority students.
               
               In signing the bill, Trump said historically black schools have “never had better champions in the White House.”
               
               “When I took office, I promised to fight for HBCUs, and my administration continues to deliver,” Trump said. “A few months ago, funding for HBCUs was in jeopardy. But the White House and Congress came together and reached a historic agreement.”
               https://apnews.com/article/c4834e48841d … b1bf75302a
               
               Not sure what you feel the Democrats have done for Black people in many decades. In fact, I don't think there is much you could point out that they have done in the past 40 years.

               replyreport
               1. 61

                  Willowarborposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  "Not sure what you feel the Democrats have done for Black people in many decades. In fact, I don't think there is much you could point out that they have done in the past 40 years."
                  
                  Actually..
                  
                  Researchers,  Zoltan Hajnal and Jeremy Horowitz took  a close look at both parties’ records on improving the economic situation for minorities, and found that under Democratic presidents, blacks and other minority groups saw rising wages, falling poverty and unemployment rates, and that they tend to lose ground under Republican administrations. They also find that whites make similar gains under Democratic presidents.
                  
                  This is an abbreviated blog discussion of their findings and I will also link the actual study write up which is about 19 pages long.
                  https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2014/ … do-whites/
                  
                  Racial Winners and Losers in American Party Politics https://ccis.ucsd.edu/_files/journals/2 … litics.pdf

                  replyreport
                  1. 85

                     Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                     My conversation with Cred is just all about now, what we are dealing with today. All about the upcoming 2024 election, and the black vote. I am not about to delve into what party has benefited black people. This discussion would be very tedious, and unnecessary. I posed the question to Cred and asked him what he felt the Democrats have done that was not done decades ago. I am sure he will provide an answer.  Hopefully, it is not 19 pages long. Just not up for that conversation on a chat.
                     
                     My comment to Cred is an extension of  this comment
                     https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/359 … ost4305393

                     replyreport
                     1. 61

                        Willowarborposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                        Your statement:
                        "I don't think there is much you could point out that they have done in the past 40 years"
                        
                        I added back in response:
                        
                        A link to a comprehensive study that answers that question exactly.
                        It's an actual data point on which an opinion can be based. That being said, I know that many prefer not to have such data points.

                        replyreport
                        1. 85

                           Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                           I could have been more precise in my question to Cred I offered several of Trump's accomplishments that I felt were good for black citizens...   
                           
                           I certainly offered this as a Trump accomplishment  "Unemployment rates for Blacks hovered for months at or near historic lows. Workers with less than a high school diploma and criminal records left the sidelines of the workforce.
                           
                           Before the coronavirus, the labor force participation rates of Blacks, prime-age workers 25 to 54, and women ticked up from Obama-era lows. Even years into the Obama economic recovery, these workers were still leaving the labor force.
                           
                           The Census Bureau just released stunning statistics about the economic well-being of Americans in 2019. Minority groups benefited greatly from the remarkable labor market that preceded the coronavirus epidemic."
                           
                           I do feel Trump did well keeping unemployment down. Source on unemployment by presidents. I think it is obvious he did a good job until COVID hit.  The charts per president are very telling. 
                           https://historyinpieces.com/research/us … -president
                           
                           I by no means brought up a comparison of Democratic presidents versus Republican presidents.  Nor do I care to compare. I look at each president for their accomplishments. A bit back on HPs I shared I felt Johnson was most likely the best president in my time. Not interested in comparing presidents.

                           replyreport
                           1. 61

                              Willowarborposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                              When Trump took office in January 2017, the black unemployment rate was 7.8 percent, the lowest it had been in nearly 10 years, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Under Trump, it dropped a full percentage point to 6.8 percent in December. That’s the lowest rate since the bureau began regularly breaking out unemployment rates by race in 1972.
                              
                              A similar drop of 1 percentage point was recorded during the same 11-month period in 2016. The drop was even more pronounced in each of the three years before that. It fell 1.9 percentage points in 2015, 1.5 percentage points in 2014 and 1.8 percentage points in 2013.
                              
                              In other words, the downward trend has continued under Trump, albeit at a slower pace than in recent years.
                              
                              The black unemployment rate had been in a years-long downward trend that continued under Trump.  The number of employed black Americans rose by 354,000 in the first 11 months under Trump. But that rise is dwarfed by the gains in the previous three years: 541,000 in 2016, 767,000 in 2015 and 710,000 in 2014.
                              
                              It's positive that he could keep that going. But I am not convinced that there was a legislative effort to do so.  I think it's very tough to ultimately evaluate a one-term president. So much of the first year Can and  does have impacts from the previous administration. Where that administration's policies are actually coming to bear on current circumstances.  And then of course we had the pandemic which upended everything.  I really think we actually didn't get to see much of what he may have done.
                              
                              
                              
                              https://www.factcheck.org/2018/01/trump … mployment/

                              replyreport
                              1. 85

                                 Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                                 I certainly did not ever compare the unemployment rates of previous presidents. I just pointed out Trump's record on unemployment. I don't dispute that Obama was successful in bringing unemployment down. I voted for Obama in his first term. I was pleased with his record on unemployment.

                                 replyreport
               2. 79

                  Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  The trend, the mend of the economy, should be given to Barrack Obama as turning the tide from the disasterous 2008 downturn. But, of course, Trump will take credit for it.
                  
                  Which specific policy directive can Trump take credit for above and beyond the effort from the Obama administration that can be directly attributed to lower black unemployment rates?
                  
                  I have generally been opposed to gutting public schools in favor of private ones, as I believe that the disparity in educational outcomes for those student not from rich families would be perilous in the big picture.
                  
                  Trump has also said that he was the least racist guy, I certainly cant believe that with his background.
                  
                  Much of it is what Democrats haven't done, they haven't hidden racism and race visiting behind concepts like"Woke". They are not trying to silence the voices of our literary intellectuals. And as was mentioned by Willow, blacks have always done better economically under Democrat administrations.
                  
                  Republicans talk about their policies while disrespecting our people and their voices. There is a lot to say about what Democrats generally have not been doing over the last 40 years, making difficult situations that much worse. There is a reason that almost 90 percent of African Americans vote for Democrats, anyone of them can point to specific reasons. In your town, what did your Black associates tell you?
                  
                  Oh, thanks for the links, I will take a close look.
                  ---------
                  Over the course of 7 years, the Obama Administration has invested more than $4 billion in HBCUs, because these institutions are vital engines of economic growth and proven ladders of advancement for generations of African Americans.
                  
                  Looking at the sheer dollars of commitment, Obama was a "better friend".

                  replyreport
                  1. 85

                     Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                     "Which specific policy directive can Trump take credit for above and beyond the effort from the Obama administration that can be directly attributed to lower black unemployment rates?"
                     
                     I feel the issue of lower black unemployment rates is influenced by a wide range of economic factors and policies, and it is important to note that presidents inherit economic conditions and policies from their predecessors. When discussing the decrease in black unemployment rates during the Trump administration compared to the Obama administration, several factors and policies that I feel could have contributed to the decrease in unemployment for blacks under Trump.
                     The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, signed into law by President Trump in December 2017, reduced corporate tax rates and provided tax cuts for individuals. Proponents argued that these tax cuts stimulated economic growth and job creation, which could benefit all racial groups, including black Americans.
                     
                     The Trump administration pursued a policy of reducing government regulations across various industries, with the aim of spurring business growth and job creation.  In my view, this approach could have a positive impact on job opportunities for black Americans, actually all Americans.
                     
                     The Trump administration signed the First Step Act into law in December 2018, which aimed to reform the criminal justice system, reduce recidivism, and provide opportunities for former inmates.  This policy could also have indirectly contributed to reducing unemployment rates among black Americans by increasing their chances of finding employment after incarceration.
                     
                     Overall, the black unemployment rate tends to be influenced by broader economic trends, in my view.  During the Trump administration, the United States experienced a period of economic expansion before the COVID-19 pandemic hit in early 2020. These favorable economic conditions likely contributed to lower unemployment rates for all racial groups, including black Americans. This takes nothing away from the good job that Obama did in his second term to get the economy headed in the right direction.
                     
                     I see no reason to give one credit and not the other.
                     
                     "Willow, blacks have always done better economically under Democrat administrations."
                     
                     Please note that Willow was offering an article that was published in 2014.  It was a well-researched article and pointed out Democratic presidents did very well in boosting employment for black citizens. However, these stats are from before Trump took office. Thus far he holds the record for the lowest  African-American unemployment rate.  It hit a record low in December of 2018.
                     
                     Not sure why this would not be well appreciated by any and all Americans.
                     
                     President Donald Trump on Thursday signed a bipartisan bill that will PERMANENTLY provide more than $250 million a year to the nation’s historically black colleges and universities, along with dozens of other institutions that serve large shares of minority students.
                     
                     I think it fair to look at a president's job performance, and what they did while in office. I need not compare one against the other until I am pretty much required to.  I try to be nonbiased when it comes to comparing a president's record.  For example, I did not vote for Johnson, but I feel he has been the best president in my time, in regard to job performance. I did not like his demeanor. I feel Trump holds a second to Johnson, due to job performance. I put all other judgments aside. I want a guy that can dod the job.
                     
                     I am not sure what incidents have left you feeling Trump himself is racist. So I will not respond. I have not witnessed him being racist or saying something that could be taken as a racist slur.

                     replyreport
                  2. 85

                     Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                     "Which specific policy directive can Trump take credit for above and beyond the effort from the Obama administration that can be directly attributed to lower black unemployment rates?"
                     
                     I feel the issue of lower black unemployment rates is influenced by a wide range of economic factors and policies, and it is important to note that presidents inherit economic conditions and policies from their predecessors. When discussing the decrease in black unemployment rates during the Trump administration compared to the Obama administration, several factors and policies that I feel could have contributed to the decrease in unemployment for blacks under Trump.
                     The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, signed into law by President Trump in December 2017, reduced corporate tax rates and provided tax cuts for individuals. Proponents argued that these tax cuts stimulated economic growth and job creation, which could benefit all racial groups, including black Americans.
                     
                     The Trump administration pursued a policy of reducing government regulations across various industries, with the aim of spurring business growth and job creation.  In my view, this approach could have a positive impact on job opportunities for black Americans, actually all Americans.
                     
                     The Trump administration signed the First Step Act into law in December 2018, which aimed to reform the criminal justice system, reduce recidivism, and provide opportunities for former inmates.  This policy could also have indirectly contributed to reducing unemployment rates among black Americans by increasing their chances of finding employment after incarceration.
                     
                     Overall, the black unemployment rate tends to be influenced by broader economic trends, in my view.  During the Trump administration, the United States experienced a period of economic expansion before the COVID-19 pandemic hit in early 2020. These favorable economic conditions likely contributed to lower unemployment rates for all racial groups, including black Americans. This takes nothing away from the good job that Obama did in his second term to get the economy headed in the right direction.
                     
                     I see no reason to give one credit and not the other.
                     
                     "Willow, blacks have always done better economically under Democrat administrations."
                     
                     Please note that Willow was offering an article that was published in 2014.  It was a well-researched article and pointed out Democratic presidents did very well in boosting employment for black citizens. However, these stats are from before Trump took office. Thus far he holds the record for the lowest  African-American unemployment rate.  It hit a record low in December of 2018.
                     
                     Not sure why this would not be well appreciated by any and all Americans.
                     
                     President Donald Trump on Thursday signed a bipartisan bill that will PERMANENTLY provide more than $250 million a year to the nation’s historically black colleges and universities, along with dozens of other institutions that serve large shares of minority students.
                     I think it fair to look at a president's job performance, and what they did while in office. I need not compare one against the other until I am pretty much required to.  I try to be nonbiased when it comes to comparing a president's record. 
                     
                     I am not sure what incidents have left you feeling Trump himself is racist. So I will not respond. I have not witnessed him being racist or saying something that could be taken as a racist slur.

                     replyreport
                     1. 79

                        Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                        Sharlee, in this article below I attempt to answer the question as to why Trump is not given more credit for lower black unemployment rates by the Black Community at large.
                        
                        Some of the incidents that has put Trump off with our group was his involvement in the 1989 incarceration of 4 innocent black men accused of sexual assualt on a white female in New York. The other was the unprovoked attack on Barrack Obama's  citizenship and origins. Obama had my support and that of the African American community and we could not be expected to take kindly to that. Another may be his attack on a Hispanic judge in 2015 as being unqualified to comment on Trump's anti-immigration, nativist policies precisely because he was Hispanic. Trump does not give minorities the respect of doing their jobs in an impartial manner and keeping personal or racial vendettas under control. Why? Because Trump himself does not do that.
                        
                        LBJ was not just placating the Black Community but was the impetus of a new course. Always being somewhat of a coarse and vulgar man, he surprised my parents as to his heartfelt commitment to Civil Rights during a period when we expected that Kennedy's death would bring that to an end. He got skin in the game by challenging his southern allies toward a new path. Trump is no LBJ.
                        
                        Our very existence in American society has always hinged upon civil rights and equal opportunity. The commitment of any leader toward that end is going to evaluated as first and foremost.
                        
                        https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … -disagree/

                        replyreport
            2. 99

               DrMark1961posted 12 months agoin reply to this

               Sorry Sharlee this has nothing to do with this thread but I could not find the thread where we discussed the cholesterol issue.
               Credence, I thought you would want to see this video. This guy explains all the current research and thinking on LDLs and is much more articulate than I am. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swc4ps4iPXs&t=2320s
               
               It is only a few weeks old so pretty current info.

               replyreport
               1. 79

                  Credence2posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  I do and I will check it out, thanks, Doc

                  replyreport