Religiosity

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   gmwilliamsposted 11 months ago

   
   Has religion helped or harmed people?   Does religion promote a poor sense of self?  Does religion teach self-abnegation?  Why does religion discourage a high sense of self?  Why does religion encourage a mass mentality?   What are YOUR views of religion?  Has religion been used as a sociopolitical tool throughout history?

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      Nathanvilleposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Coming from a secular society (Britain, not Northern Ireland); I shall follow the views of Americans with interest.

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         MizBejabbersposted 11 months agoin reply to this

         Interesting, With the exception of a couple of Frenchmen, or maybe just one of them, my ancestors came to this country so they could exercise their religion freely and in peace. Their religions included, but were not limited to, Quakers, Lutherans, and Seventh Day Baptists. Later on in the 1700s some were Huguenots, Presbyterians, Methodists, and Baptists. Unfortunately a couple or maybe more of those very early religions became oppressors of people themselves. Remember stories of Salem? And then there were those who oppressed the Native Americans by trying to force Christianity on them.

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            Nathanvilleposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            My maternal great-grandparents (on my grandmother’s side) had a Quaker wedding in Bristol, with one of their quests (who signed the wedding certificate) being a Fry, the Bristol Fry’s (a Quaker family) being famous at the time for owning the ‘Fry’s Chocolate Factory’ in Bristol.  I don’t know if you’ve ever seen or had Fry’s chocolate?  https://youtu.be/r5Cx9HzjDtU
            
            Yes, what you say is the impression I get, in that early settlers immigrated to America to escape religious persecution from Britain and Europe.  The Mayflower set sail on 16th September 1620 from Plymouth, England, to voyage to America.  During that time period Christianity in Britain was split into two main streams - Catholicism, which was discriminated against, and Protestantism.
            
            During the 1660s and 1670s a series of penal laws were enacted which persecuted both Catholics and members of the various nonconformist groups. Enforcement of these laws unleashed a period of violent religious disturbance and hatred across England, Scotland and Wales.
            
            These days’ it’s a much different picture, except for in Northern Ireland:
            
            In England, Wales and Scotland today:
            
            •    Over 53% of the British population describe themselves as having ‘no religion’.
            •    13.7% are Church of England (Protestant).
            •    8.7% are Catholic.
            •    13.2% are other Christians
            •    6.7% Islam
            •    3.6% are other religions
            
            In Northern Ireland:-
            
            •    45.7% of people in Northern Ireland are Catholic, and
            •    43.5% of people in Northern Ireland are Protestant.
            
            As you may know, the split in Northern Ireland causes a lot of religious tension, with the peace walls dividing the two communities helping to keep an uneasy peace:
            
            Northern Ireland's 'Peace Walls’ https://youtu.be/rdKOKrEAmSI

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      tsmogposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      " What are your views of religion?" And, perhaps, "Has religion been used as a sociopolitical tool throughout history", yet looking at recent history.
      
      Grace, what your presented is enough for an interested person to write an article if so inclined. Perhaps even a book. I'll start off with I look upon religion in perhaps an odd way, though I know what your intent is. However, I think your questions can still be applied to how I view it. I am sure others will say hogwash.
      
      I look upon this definition for religion; "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance" Using that I have pondered if, for some,the NFL, MLB, NBA, or even fishing is in a strong sense a religion for many. Give it some thought.
      
      For me, it would be the National Hot Rod Association (NHRA). As an example, I have over 50 diecast cars of either my favorite drivers or demonstrating the changes in car type in a specific class over history.  I won't go into hats and T-shirts I have. I watch the broadcast races and I don't know how many websites/forums I follow 'religiously'.
      
      Going along with the religiosity theme I ponder a biblical scripture, Exodus 20:3-5:
      
      3. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
      
      4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
      
      5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me"
      
      Regarding being used as a sociopolitical tool I quote from an article I shared in a different forum post regarding the book 1984 by George Orwell. It is:
      
      "6. Mass Entertainment
      
      "One of the predictions from Orwell’s 1984 which has turned prophetic is that the proletariat doesn’t need to be under surveillance- as long as they are kept well-fed, well-intoxicated, and well-pleasured. (Think of the usage of my acceptance of the definition of religion). This was Orwell’s way of explaining that as long as the superficialities of life were fulfilled for the extremely downtrodden, they wouldn’t focus on the truly important. (Define downtrodden?) If we search Google Trends today, we would probably come up with thousands of Page Six articles, a couple of Vogue recipes, and a few Cosmopolitan suggestions- but nothing really of note. Maybe it was Orwell talking about how we were losing touch with reality- as we were consumed by the facade of luxury."
      
      Well, my answer/reply is just some wandering a bit. They, in my mind, are entwined to some extent. Of course, there is some dependence on personal 'belief systems and ideologies' as well as advocated by organizations of this and that.

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         MizBejabbersposted 11 months agoin reply to this

         I liked your answer, T, but I interpreted her definition of religion to be the most common one. But "religion" without definition is an ambiguous word.

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            tsmogposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            

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               gmwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

               I will narrow religion to mean organized religion.

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                  tsmogposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  I plan to add a different post focused on Christianity's influences at a later time from my perspective (Life experience tossed in) and more from the gut, maybe. I am still pondering the questions. And, try to keep it to short concise replies to each individual question. I get wordy at times.

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                     gmwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                     I love wordiness.

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      MizBejabbersposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Grace, I believe that you should narrow your definition of religion to include what religion because you named several questions that all religions do not fall under. For instance there is such a polarity between western world religions like Christianity and eastern religions like Buddhism and Hinduism that they can't fall under the same umbrella. They do teach similar things up to a point, including love, kindness, patience, generosity and compassion but there the similarity ends. Since we are in the western world, I believe that you are speaking of western religions.
      
      The three western religions: monotheistic, (one god) but most Christian churches teach the three in one concept of god the father, god the son, and god the holy spirit. They also teach a heaven, hell and earth concept, and that believing in the one god and accepting his son as a personal savior keeps the loving, but jealous bipolar "God" from sending you to the eternal fires and damnation. This god is the egocentric male head of male dominance who demands worship and adoration, and at one time, even human sacrifice (Old Testament) Otherwise he's a loving compassionate god. This has been used for centuries to keep the masses in line, and it has also been a leading source of revenue for the means to do so.
      The idea of being in this god's favor is comforting to those of the "faith", and I use the term literally as there is no proof of this god's existence as much of his wrath has been scientifically proven to be from natural causes. Three religions stem from the root belief, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In the thousands of years of the existence of these three, wars have been fought over beliefs, territories and various jealousies. It is a male dominated religion whose proponents have kept people in bondage, promoted racism and misogyny and that women and children are possessions just the same as animals, while at the same time proclaiming "I am a good person because I am a Christian (Muslim, Jew).  They teach low self esteem and self loathing without "their" god's forgiveness and tell you how to get to heaven through grace, but still never be worthy of their god's love.
      It is my personal belief that while the benefits may be comforting to some individuals, the harmful effects of these three religions outweigh the benefits to humanity as a whole. I grew up on one of the most conservative of them. I was told that I was unworthy, lower than low, and that was compounded because I was a female. I left that church while in my mid-30s. As I tell people, I grew up a Baptist, but I got over it.
      
      I studied the world religions while I was a freshman in college (6 sem. hrs.) I don't think all religions are created equal as some eastern religions like Buddhism and Hinduism promote love and self esteem. I've studied Hinduism, but not it's effects on its communities and practitioners so I choose not to speak on eastern religions.

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         tsmogposted 11 months agoin reply to this

         From your contribution to the dialogue, " but jealous bipolar "God", triggered my memory banks of an article from The Onion. If you are not familiar with The Onion it offers satirical articles on pretty much everything. It is titled God Diagnosed With Bipolar Disorder (May 2, 2001). I found it interesting as I have had a bipolar diagnosis since '94. It gave me a good chuckle while I pondered blasphemy. Worth reading for a chuckle and, too, perspective. The link follows.
         
         https://www.theonion.com/god-diagnosed- … 1819566045

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            MizBejabbersposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            T, I am familiar with The Onion, but I confess that I don't get to read it often enough. I had not read this piece of satire. I found it most hilarious. but very satisfying. Thank you for sharing.

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               tsmogposted 11 months agoin reply to this

               Just tossing this out for fun. TSMOG is my name initials and 'OG' is Old Guy or Old Gangsta' from my waning days when I worked and in a live chat forum, I participated. Anyway, my first name shortened is Tim. Close to 'T'. TSMOG also is - Texas Sports Medicine and Orthopaedic Group.
               
               From the old chat room days BBL or Be Back Later

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      Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Religion provides me personally with a sense of community, moral guidance, and a source of comfort and hope in today's society.
      
      In my view, religion's impact on an individual's sense of self can vary widely depending on personal beliefs and experiences.  For me, religion provides a strong sense of identity, purpose, and self-worth.  It fosters a deep connection to a community and a higher power, which tends to enhance my self-esteem.
      
      However, I realize that rigid religious doctrines or social pressures within some religions may lead to feelings of guilt, shame, or low self-esteem. Ultimately, the effect of religion on one's sense of self is highly individual.
      
      "Has religion been used as a sociopolitical tool throughout history?"
      
      In my view yes, religion has been used as a sociopolitical tool throughout our world history in various ways and by different societies and leaders. Religion has often been intertwined with politics to legitimize the authority of rulers, justify wars,  and control or manipulate populations. It has been employed to divide communities, enforce a ruler's social norms, and influence laws.

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         MizBejabbersposted 11 months agoin reply to this

         I am glad that you find it personally satisfying. You obviously were not raised a Southern Baptist. That religion teaches that humans are of no value unless they turn themselves over to Jesus and are saved by his blood. I got tired of being told how low I was and all the other descriptions of mankind designed to lower one's self esteem and keep the masses in submission to the religious hierarchy. Apparently my sons, did, too.
         After my divorce from their father, I took my two boys, at that time ages approximately 13 and 10 to church on a regular basis. By that time, I had already decided that the church was not for me, but I wanted the boys to make their own decisions. Many years later, my older son, now twice married, each time to a devout Christian woman, shuned religion and did not attend church with his second wife and their two children. He attended church with the first wife, whom he later divorced. After that I think he had received his fill of organized religion. My younger son, now deceased from an inherited auto immune disease, was a good musician. In his 20s, he joined a rock band that turned out to be a group of young men from a more liberal religion, Episcopal. For awhile I thought he was going to be a regular church goer, while he did not, he never wavered from his belief in God.

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            Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

            I deeply appreciate your willingness to share your personal journey with religion. In my family, we have a rich Catholic heritage that I've upheld by raising my two children within the Catholic faith. Both my kids attended Catholic schools.   Interestingly, my daughter, after marrying an atheist she met in college, chose not to practice any form of religion. Her perspective was similar to yours – she wanted her children to have the freedom to make their own choices regarding faith. However, her children never gravitated towards any religious background.
            
            Now, at the age of 56, my daughter has returned to the Catholic church. after 33 years of marriage, her husband and she grew apart and divorced.  She found she needed what she had given up on many years ago.   
            On the other hand, my son, now 54, never strayed from the church. He married a Christian woman who also attends his church, and they are raising their child within the Catholic faith. Their son is currently enrolled in a Catholic school and wholeheartedly embraces the church's teachings. It's evident to me that he finds immense joy in the sense of community and tradition within the church, similar to the profound sense of belonging and cherished traditions I've always treasured about being Catholic.
            
            My son has shared a poignant insight during his travels – no matter where he finds himself on a Sunday, stepping into any Catholic church makes him feel at home. He believes that the very walls of these churches extend a warm welcome, creating a comforting sense of belonging.
            
            In the grand scheme of things, I believe that religion provides a unique mindset of being part of something greater – a vast family that seeks solace and guidance from God through prayer, akin to a form of meditation that clears the mind for greater clarity.  I feel I am somewhat blessed to have a true need for religion.
            
            Your last statement says it all -- "he never wavered from his belief
            in God"
            
            In my view -  So, deep inside is part of a huge support system. He can find the same feeling of belonging anywhere, it need not be in a church.

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               MizBejabbersposted 11 months agoin reply to this

               Thank you, Sharlee. I never lost my belief in a creator. I found spiritual fulfillment and a lot of freedom in meditation, and I do belong to a couple of groups with whom I share meditation and have discussions, but we are not obligated to any organized religion. I probably should have added that to my response. I'm glad that you and your family enjoy your church.

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                  tsmogposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  That kind of goes along the lines of my 'spiritual' life. I meditate daily, most of the time. I also use mindfulness techniques. Those have provided me with 'balance'. I also do personal studies of this and that with a mix of Western and Eastern thought. In college, I took a class on the Bible as Literature. That was eye-opening and gave me new insights.

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   IslandBitesposted 11 months ago

   Has religion helped or harmed people?
   
   Both.

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      MizBejabbersposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      I agree. I think it helps a lot of people psychologically, but it can be used as a means of control that harms them.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months ago

   Religion is helpful/vital in guiding us toward realizing the truth of the existence of God. That we are God's children and that God has a plan for us. If we become conscious of God through loving Him as Father/Mother and follow his/her will, it will bring about joy and happiness on earth ...
   as in heaven.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months ago

   https://hubpages.com/religion-philosoph … f-religion
   
   

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      tsmogposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Good example of the old days!! And, remembrance of the characters at play.

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