Someone should say a few words . . .
Someone should say a few words before the grave is covered
For more than a decade the jousts were lively and the points were sharp. The roster of champions was a steady core of 'regulars' that constantly pulsed with new entrants and spasms of 'one-nighters' taking their turn at the rail.
Idiots were named and points were dissected down to their roots. The jousts could be bruising. Points were scored and mea culpas offered, but 'agreeing to disagree' wasn't an ending. Horses were flogged until the last 'yeah, but . . . ' was pierced.
It was fun, entertaining, and often offered personally profitable perspective adjustments. And, no one got offended. No one turned to the King for redress.
Discussions weren't 'views', they were perspectives that were discussed and debated or affirmed. The paths could lead anywhere, but they seldom led to a closed door or a cry of foul.
And then . . . "views" became sacrosanct. Threads became choir rooms. Dissenting views became offensive. Tangents were poo-pooed and chidings were presumptuously made. Opposing opinions became an arch enemy instead of an arch-rival. Loins were girded. Reports were made to the King.
And now . . . the tournament field is empty.
These few words are for the last coals of the Politics and Social Issues forum. Someone else can cover the corpse.
GAA newspaper wrongly thought that he had died, and published his obituary in their next issue. Mark Twain heard about this, and wrote to the newspaper, saying the aforementioned 'The rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated. '......
He also said something about arguing with idiots . . .
Wait . . .
Wait . . .
Okay, for any who think they felt the prick of a point, you're wrong. That "idiot" wasn't pointed at anyone (especially not you, I know about your sharpened quill, and I haven't girded my loins this morning). "Idiot" is a category descriptor that covers the nuts and the irrational. ;-o
GA
It's clear that you're reflecting on the vibrant history of the chat, and there's no denying the shift in its tone and atmosphere over time, due to a great deep split in ideologies. Your sarcasm and disappointment are palpable, and I understand your sentiments. It's a poignant eulogy for a time when discussions were intense, viewpoints were examined rigorously, and agreement to disagree was more than just a phrase.
However, I'd like to add that not all of us have retreated or bowed to the changing dynamics. Many, have remained steadfast in the face of evolving norms and stuck to the principle of open dialogue. In a world where conversations have become polarized and, at times, rigid.
While it may feel like the tournament field is empty, (many have retreated) remember that there are still those who continue to participate, engage, and strive for meaningful discourse. It might not be as loud or as lively as before, but it's not entirely silent. It's a testament to your courage and the resilience of thoughtful conversations. So, let us not entirely cover the grave but rather nurture the coals that still smolder, waiting for the spark of renewed conversation.
Also, we need no one who retreated to climb over the fence and toss dirt into a grave. We who stayed are all survivors. Even if we turn put down our weapons and walk away.Gus,
It was a pleasure, you were one of the finest 'debaters' on these forums without question.
You had the inescapable ability to keep the focus on topic, no matter how much many of us wanted to stray into the weeds.
As for the cause of the demise/decline... it is a culmination of matters with two issues being primary:
Everything has its day. These forums were once easy to find and partake in, our articles once had comment sections. When they made the forums hard for those not looking for them to find, and when they took comments away from articles, HubPages facilitated the demise of the debates and the interest from people looking for a way of expressing and challenging the topic proffered. What once made this place special, the ability to interact with the author was gone.
Politics are now more of a faith and less of a platform of ideas when the president gets in front of the American public on a nationally televised speech with ominous lighting, military standing at the ready, in front of a sacred national place and calls the opposition terrorists and traitors to Democracy, it might getting to one of those historical moments that we heard about or read about when younger, those times harkening back to the 30s and 40s.
Ah well, nothing lasts forever. Those were the days.Hold on now, what do you mean "were one of the finest . . ."?
Your last thought was the most accurate. Blind faith.
GA ;-o
Well, now, GA, I admire your crafty wordsmithing! I read it twice. However, why no homage to those who fell in battle here no longer? Or, is that one point you are making?
I say it would be appropriate for a moment to tip our hats to them with honor and respect. No matter their reputation or how far afoul they may have transgressed they were allies and friends to some extent.
Thinking of Randy for one just now. How about Stevennix2001, Pretty Panther, Live to Learn, and more? So, many have passed through the halls of delight and merriment.
"And now . . . the tournament field is empty."
Have you walked the hallowed halls of the HubPages forums both here in the topic choice section as well as The HubPages Forum? Seems there are three main groups each with a group of a dozen or so loyalist to their niche. Why . . . there are some who double dip in two or all three of them.
There are:
** Those who make a home here in the Politics and Social Issues topic
** Those creative writers at Books, Literature, and Writing
** And, the hardcore content writers in the HubPages forums. Whizzes at SEO practices and experts on Google algorithms. Yes, an adventurer from afar passes through seeking help to pass the QAP too with their crafted article. Alas, here then gone for whatever reason.
Just my two pennies. Thanks for the opportunity!Your mention of past names turned those "two pennies" into gold. I remember them all. I even talked with Randy about stopping by for some target shooting on a trip to Florida. Imagine that, an enthusiastic (I started with "rabid" as a descriptor, but thought it fit 'Jake' better) Democrat liberal and a conservative with guns in their hands arguing about the 'Nanny' state. ;-)
I had a great rapport with PrettyPanther. I even chided her husband for switching from Republican to Democrat. He had to leave the Republicans, but he should have gone to Independent. *Since they were compadres, I should toss in the time when the still present Islandbites became Islandmom.
I'm also one of those who passed through the writer's forums for QAP tips. There are some knowledgeable and helpful folks there.
GAYes, fond memories. Though I was not an active poster beginning 2015 until the most recent years I read the forum daily. I am sure there were/are others like that. It was/is a learning instrument.
Did you know these forums are indexed on Google and available to the world to be read? I have done my due diligence checking OP titles and some key phrases discovering, Yes, there it is indexed on page so and so in the Search Engine Results Page (SERP).
So, many here perhaps have a reputation with world recognition as well as past members. Most recently I checked for Eso's OP: What are the Great Things President Joe Biden Has Done While President with over 6,000 posts. It appeared on the sixth page for me in the Serps.
As can be surmised someone discovering such a thread may wish to post. They have to join HP to do so. So, does that explain the obscure poster in this forum with no publications on their profile?Beats me. Sounds reasonable.
As a note, there was a moment when a faction used the forum indexing issue as support for a ban or censoring of 'extremist disinformation' posts because HP shouldn't want its name linked to such deplorable cult conspiracy postings.
GAThat makes sense for banning or censoring if one is so inclined. I have never understood reporting people for their views. I do understand personal attacks. However, I toss and turn on that as it has a subjective element, doesn't it? Some people are very good at wrapping an insult or attack in satin with a lace bow too.
I draw the line at a personal insult, and I have always been upfront when reporting someone. I also feel the moderator picks up when someone may be breaking a rule. A few months ago I was banned for a month due to using AI when writing a Hub. I did not realize they forbid that tool.
I do appreciate rules, otherwise can't imagine the frustration one would incur here. I don't feel my posts have been censored for my view. I think that one can share views here openly. The problems occur with other users that don't share one another's views. Some get personal. Not cool in my opinion. Het debate a thought all day long, and I will come back to you. But gets too personal, just not part of debating.I fall pretty much in line with your thoughts. No need to make it personal.
Yeah, months back in the HubPages forums there was discussion of AI and usage. It still pops up now and then. Some had shared their experience as yours using AI.
HP addressed it in a newsletter. They said using it as a tool or as a personal assistant was okay. Next, is the link to the newsletter.
How Can ChatGPT Help You With Your Articles?
https://hubpages.com/about/newsletter/2023-01-25I was banned for a month and was warned not to use it. I went back and forth with the monitor and used it as a tool, changing most of what AI produced. I am not about to try using it again. I was warned not to. I use Grammarly. Have you used AI here on HPs to write an article? Now Curious.
Thanks for the link, I wish I had kept up on policy. I will read it in full.Sorry about the ban! I have heard of such stark news in the other HP forum area too by some writers.
I have Grammarly Basic downloaded onto my PC at home. It also floats with me on the internet. Like here in these forums, it points out my spelling errors while offering an opportunity for them to correct them. Punctuation too. But, it is constantly showing a pop-up for the premium version at a cost.
I have not used it for writing an article or the Bing version on their home page. I have asked it questions. I did ask Grammarly to write three paragraphs to share with GA at a Forum OP I posted. GA was the first post to the OP and I posted a reply to that with those paragraphs in it. That OP is:
Politics and AI. Are you prepared?
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/359 … u-prepared
Do I lament what has happened to our forums? Yes.
So, we are determined and adamant in our views, but if we were not, are there not better things that we could do with our time?
I have posted before about the cry babies that are terrified over the exchange of opposing ideas which is inherently not always going to be cordial, but this is an adult forum not Romper Room. I have cross swords with Hub Pages Central over banning policies and some members' constant feigning of offense for every word from an opposing view which would make them uncomfortable.
Rather than suffer bullies, control freaks and fools, one takes a position stands by it and should not feel intimidated when asked to to provide verifiable data to support it. One should be open to being persuaded, but such should not mean that his or her opinion would change. And if we don't agree, fine, it should not be a reason to "have a cow".
One person's "rant" is another person reasoned explanation. I don't know of anyone here so smart as to have all the answers and who is inherently foolproof and without error in regard to their perceptions and ideas relative those of others.
Intolerance is a troubling trend that seems to be afflicting the nation at large. Who truly is qualified to speak on a position sacrosanct from their point of view without having worn the other man's shoes? That word, arrogance, is almost as bad as intolerance. Humility is a positive word that I believe that would benefit more people than otherwise.
I just hope to see more "fresh blood" come into the forums soon.So Cred looks like we have an elite-type forum, that still offers us few a place to share. I am not turning the lights out --- are you? -- And GA who? He has not been truly active here for some time. I doubt if he needs to skulk around at the light switch. The hypocrisy is fluffy up in here.
Chat forums often decline and die due to a combination of factors. Firstly, a lack of active irrelevant content, which can deter users and erode the quality of discussions. For example --- Trump Trump Trump... Additionally, other social media platforms can divert people's attention away from traditional forums. Due to more current and interesting subjects being posted. I can honestly say, that this forum is very stagnant and has been for years. We smack each other over and over on the same subjects. In my view, conversing over current issues draws more users.
Sometimes, a toxic or unwelcoming atmosphere can also drive people away, leading to a decline in participation. I have witnessed that here. In essence, the decline here may be due to evolving user preferences, and community dynamics.
We still have a few here that add interesting threads. Threads that offer food for thought, and should attract conversation. But, it appears few are left that care to add input.
In regard to having a King overlooking our conversations. HP's is free, and rules have been set, as they are on all chats. Take AOL, the comment sections are well-used and offer constantly updated news. The most popular chats that hold users are forums that offer current events. Also one experiences (as a rule) comments that have "teeth", not a one-liner that indicates little to no thought has gone into their comment. This form of fence-sitting is very evident here on the HP forum. I mean why offer a glib oneliner? It is clear this forum has fizzled out.
I stop in daily to enjoy the survivors, many of whom are what attracted me to the site. Note, they are the ones who truely take time to converse and share their time and views. I noted we see fewer one-liners much anymore...Well, that didn't take long. Unless I misinterpreted your words, here's what came across . . .
" . . .looks like we have an elite-type forum . . .", "not been truly active here for some time.", "skulk around at the light switch. "The hypocrisy is fluffy up in here."
Is it a misinterpretation to read that as addressing the OP through a response to Cred's points? If not, it reads like you're describing the OP thought as one of an outsider elitist hypocrite who trolls the forum for mindless one-line zinger opportunities. Too lazy to ask Google for some 'research' to buttress a preconceived notion and too stuffy to use AI for 'polish.'
I've never been accused of being a 'one-liner' before.
GAI've expressed my thoughts, and I believe the context of my comment was evident. I took care not to single out any specific user, but it's likely apparent to everyone that we occasionally have users who post very brief comments.
My intention was to share my perspective with Cred regarding your OP. I also want to highlight that there are still some users who appreciate this forum, even though it's true that the forum has seen better days. I must admit that I found your OP to be fluffy.
I still believe that there is hope. The problem is that we have reached the point where we are each familiar with our relative stance and positions and can probably anticipate the kind of response that any of the regulars would give to a question posed to them.
We are at opposing points attempting to find common ground on which we can agree. That is where the challenge is. And that is sparse at best.
You research things so well before you post, who can debate someone with all their ducks in a row? I might question the source of your affirming material, and your conclusions given that there is enough space to challenge them. Trump, by his very nature, is the center of much controversy and will, in one form or the other, always be in the news.
The news and controversy world wide, keeps coming. There always remain subjects to be discussed.
You have been with AOL, how has it compared with this forum? Did you like it? I can swing a lot of freight over that way as well.
We will keep the lines of communication open.You're absolutely right, and as I mentioned earlier, many social media platforms thrive on delivering up-to-the-minute news. Take AOL, for instance; it's a prime example of this. I'm personally attracted to AOL because of its emphasis on current events.
In addition, Truth Social is another great platform for conversations. It tends to host more conservative and independent voices, which provides a refreshing break from the constant bickering you often encounter on other platforms.
Furthermore, I have a fondness for Quora. It provides a welcoming space for people from all backgrounds to share their thoughts without the usual venomous exchanges that can be found elsewhere.
I believe that the vitality of a chat site largely hinges on its ability to engage users with day-to-day events. However, this also necessitates having a user base that is genuinely interested in staying up-to-date with these events. In the past, such engagement was more prevalent here on HPs, but it seems that now, some threads receive little response, as if the community has grown weary of the constant stream of current news.
So, what's the typical response when one posts a current event? Often, it's just a shake of the head (SMH), an emoji, or a brief one-liner. What we're left with now on this platform are a few that never mind putting in time and effort to offer thoughtful perspectives, and yes, conduct some research. It might not be everyone's cup of tea, but in my view, that's what fosters truly engaging discussions. That's why some chats thrive, and some don't.
Once more, I believe that those of us who have continued to frequent this space are a select few. It's a testament to our commitment to keep coming back and engaging in conversations.You said it yourself, " I believe that those of us who have continued to frequent this space are a select few." All the other sites you compare HP to have a base for a colloquial term that is humungous.
** AOL has 1.5 million paying users
** Quora has 300 million monthly active users
** Truth Social has more than 2 million active users
For perspective, X has 450 million users and Facebook has 2.9 billion
HubPages has 35,918 published users. And, it is a writing site not a forum site.
Granted one would think with that many published users there would be more than a dozen or so in the politics and social issues topic. It is about the same with the books, literature, and writing topics for participants interacting. The Hubpages forums section may reach upward to twenty or more depending on how many enter seeking help for an article. I participate in all three, so I can attest to that.
As you said, once upon a time there were many more active in this topic area. However, I am sure most know HP themselves have changed their business direction.
For me, the first sign things were changing maybe ten years ago was when they eliminated the Question section for community activity. I was more active there than in the Forums. Plus, they eliminated comments on our articles. Yes, they did active Rojo for commenting at some of the niche sites, but it is not aimed at community activity.
People have defected from HP in droves and in waves that were community-minded. I have dozens of friends on Facebook who have left HP. Quite a few of those were active in this topic.
Also, in my HP feed the new users I see with articles are mainly from other countries, so I doubt they are interested in our politics much less the forums. They are here trying to make a buck.
A little bit of a rant. Oops!!
I as others am here to stay. I learn daily from the interactions in all three of those areas that have interactions. I am just now spreading my wings in this topic area. I am now beginning to write articles again, though some are poems.Times and technology evolve...
X/Twitter fills the niche for political debate that was not really available a decade ago. It has been expanded under Musk's ownership to allow for longer posts, video inserts, more control of ads and subscriptions, etc.
Contrary to X's growth HubPages has contracted, how it operated a decade ago, with more control over ad placement, more income for articles, more interaction (comments) with readers, more easily accessible (easy to find) forums, etc.
A decade ago I believe reading such sites on a cell phone was a novelty, today every such site needs to be phone friendly or face extinction.
People have moved away from this venue of interaction and communication the way they moved away from physical newspapers a decade ago. Its easier to reach people on things like X, TikTok, Instagram... two of the three I admit to never trying, but still, they are used by hundreds of millions.
My use of X allows for me to link my articles. If I ever become seriously active again writing articles on HubPages it will be because I can link them to other sites like X... a decade ago, it was HubPages getting views without such linkage, based on how search engines operated.
That is not really the problem. You and I could sit down and find solutions to a great many problems, despite our differences, if it were up to just you and I to solve them.
The problem, as I have tried to point out, is We the People are given people to choose that are not going to solve our problems. If anything, they only worsen the divide.
I spent a part of my day today watching some interesting reporting, on how Ukrainian refugees are faring both in Russia and the UK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAL01ya3r8w
These are normal people being treated well in both nations... how is it that Russia can treat them so well, and the UK can treat them so well, yet our nations can't work things out and find peace?
Its the same reasons why we clearly have politicians and media that stirs and creates the divides within our society, rather than working things out to resolve the matters.
Some people don't want peace, don't want resolutions, they want revenge, they want power, they want conflict. Too many of those people today are the ones making the decisions the rest of us must suffer.Of course, two people could sit down and perhaps find compromise for over the most retractable positions.
Politics are politics, Ken, when has that ever been different? There was controversy during the 1930s regarding American intervention in international affairs. What would the debate have looked like then? Since the advent of the Cold War, we have had this military industrial complex with the Republicans/conservatives being its greatest advocates. So, who are the warmongers? I don't know specifically, but I do know which groups have been the more supportive of "machine" and its appetites. Even within the prescribed choices we may have, I still want the right to select from among them not trusting any alternative to my involvement and participation in that choice as a viable solution.
Yes, in order to keep the "machine" functioning it requires copious amount of military hardware, blood and sacrifice from our young men. As a result, we have been brought into alliances that are politically difficult to renege upon.
We bang the drum about anti-Communism, anti-socialism, while supporting many regimes who exist contrary to our professed values in the international sphere. The idea of the U.S operating unilaterally in the international arena has its dangers as reckless and irresponsible. Alliances deter aggression.
Our divides have been ongoing, ignoring them and dismissing them are not a solution. Seriously start working on the divides and then there will be less for the media to stir up.
Well, that took a while. Unless I misinterpreted your words . . .
. . . paragraph by paragraph, and almost point by point . . . Yep, that's what I said.
GA
It's quite a poignant reflection on the transformation of the forum over the years. The vivid description of passionate and lively discussions evolving into more divided and sensitive exchanges resonates with many online spaces today. It's a reminder of how online discourse can change and the importance of maintaining open, respectful debates. The closing lines capture the nostalgia and loss experienced by those who enjoyed the vibrant forum in its prime.
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