Forum Bans

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  1. GA Anderson profile image92
    GA Andersonposted 11 months ago

    I recently received communications that several of the voices missing from our forum are gone because they have been banned.

    I am speaking of the Politics and Social issues forum, not a place you would expect choir room conversations.

    One example should tell the story for regulars of this forum: PrettyPanther.

    Is the writing on the wall? Should we all be looking for another forum venue? Are our visits and clicks totally unimportant to HP?  Would our absence, both in the forums and articles section of the site be a non-issue for HP?

    I view my HP article income as a passive income.  It will be there—until it isn't, regardless of my forum participation. But, without this forum, I have one less reason to visit and contribute to this site. Am I that unimportant to Hubpages?

    GA

    1. Credence2 profile image82
      Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Damn it, I miss Panther. The forum is my life blood. I missed so many of the progressives that had my back.

      I think the exchanges have been educational and to have you folks around weighing in with your opinions has been crucial.

      I hate to have to go the course that you suggest, but if everyone is going to be so touchy.....

      1. GA Anderson profile image92
        GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Yeah, I feel the same. Apparently we may have worn out our welcome.

        I am contemplating adding a forum function to one of my sites just so we can have a place to continue our discussions.

        I have been on these forums for over 10 years and have built up some valued relationships. Yours included. I would hate to lose the venue.

        GA

    2. Sharlee01 profile image85
      Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

      I also received communications from a user that was ban permanently.   This made me really think about my own place here on HP.  Not sure why this gentleman was banned, but I can honestly say I miss him... We had heated back and forths, but I respected his view, and in the long run, even though we had different political opinions, as a rule, we had many other things in common.  I would hope HP would lighten up on some of the forum rules. In the end, I think we all can handle heated political discussions. I can see many have decided to just stop participating in the political forum, this is unfortunate.  I believe in free speech, even if it gets a bit rough.  Let's face it we all have unique personalities, but that's what kept this forum interesting. 

      Are we unimportant to Hubpages? I would think we are, due to the income we provide with our articles.  However, they make the rules, and with these latest bans, they have sent a very clear message of just that.

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image53
        Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Like killing the goose that lay the golden egg?

    3. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Some have been temporarily banned from the forums while there are others who are permanently banned entirely from Hubpages.  Randy Godwin has been permanently banned entirely from Hubpages.

      1. peterstreep profile image81
        peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        What!!! Randy has been banned entirely. What did he do? Shoot a fellow Hubber? That's sad news as well.

        1. GA Anderson profile image92
          GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Here's more to add to the 'conspiracy'.

          According to a source, he was just a few days from finishing his last ban when he was permanently banned, and in that same time frame, PrettyPanther and a couple of other voices were also banned. Hmm . . .

          Could HP be part of the Deep State?"(*he says in a whisper) ;-)

          GA

          1. Sharlee01 profile image85
            Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Do you know if they were all in a heated dispute on the forum or were they just banned without a reason?

            It is odd, I am here most days, and I never witnessed any conversation that would have resulted in a mass banning.

            It's unfortunate, the forum has become very quiet. Hopefully, some will return. However, if they choose to stay away by choice, that's their prerogative. The forum itself may have become tiresome to some. The back and forth bickering was getting toxic.

            1. GA Anderson profile image92
              GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Hi Sharlee, I don't have any information about the bans beyond what I have shared.

              I agree that this forum has become more tame. Even to the point that I might be a bit more contrarian just to keep it from turning into a choir room. ;-)

              GA

              1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                I have been communicating with Randy but was uncomfortable about aking him what the final straw was. It has me very curious. I did not see any conversation that would get numerous banned. I thought many have just stayed away from the forum by choice.  Yes, it has become a tamer place.

                I myself was looking forward to election banter, after all this is a political forum. Perhaps it telling, the fact that many may have lost they're interested in the election. Has politics become too boring or does it just takes to much effort to provide political views?

        2. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Sadly, Randy has been banned from HubPages entirely.  I was deeply shocked when I saw that he was banned.  Randy was an exhilarating influence on Hubpages.  Also fpherj48 was permanent banned.

    4. profile image0
      promisemposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Many people haven't been banned. They have given up in disgust.

      And the ones who have given up in disgust aren't just progressives. It's all of the people who aren't far right like the handful that remains.

      1. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

        I miss your voice of sanity, Promisem. It is nice to see you again, for however briefly.

        Rest assured that I will remain here to cover the "left flank".

        1. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Deleted

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

            No, Sharlee, I need you guys on the conservative side, I have to keep my claws sharpened. I can't do that in an environment where everyone agrees with me in a mutual admiration society. I am not the sort to want to speak just with my ideological kindred, where is the fun in that?

            Yes, i have  been banned twice. I have learned to get my points across without making my manner insulting, so as people take it personally.

            We all get to learn a little something along the way about how the other side thinks and reasons, it is priceless. It is my preferred manner of entertainment.

            1. Readmikenow profile image97
              Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Cred, you speak the truth.

              The goal of such forums as this is for people to attack the topic and not one another.  Attack a group but not an individual.  When this has happened to me, I've concluded it happened because I was right on the issue and the other side couldn't controvert what I said, so they attacked me on a personal level. I've always considered it a debating victory. 

              Everyone brings a unique perspective as well as unique life experience.

              "We all get to learn a little something along the way about how the other side thinks and reasons, it is priceless. It is my preferred manner of entertainment."

              I agree with your statement 100 percent!

            2. Sharlee01 profile image85
              Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

              And it is stimulating entertainment and does keep one aware of other opinions. However, some prefer to stay away, as promisem claimes due to becoming disgusted with far-right users. I felt my suggestion would work well, and be a good option for some that just are not open to right/left debate.

              In my view, over the past few years many on the left only hope to hear what they hope to hear, factual or not. It becomes disturbing to some to have their beliefs or opinions scrutinized.

              It well appears you are open to debate and have not been bitten by the bug --- "I only want to hear what I want to hear".

              I enjoy debate, and I certainly have crossed the line, I am working on that.   However, I am a straight shooter with my comments, and try to back up how I came to my opinion. I have noted you and the others that remain do the same. We all have our unique way of conversing, and I think this provides us all with a comfortable political forum. This forum is unique when comparing it to others.  The moderators are keeping the debate free of discord,  conflict, contention, and dissension. Is it fair? I think it fair to keep the conversation open to public disagreement, but keep the "shouting down".

              I agree with you in regard to the need for both sides to be heard, and this certainly proves to provide one an opportunity to keep  "claws sharpened".

              And we do learn to accept that others have varying views. What is obvious here at  HP political forum many of us have learned to attempt to respect other's opinions without penalizing them for their opinions. 

              The name-calling is gone, and only vigorous debate is left.  I prefer this to the battling. I have the scars, and I have lashed out, but I have learned to put down battle tools.

              My suggestion was meant to be a problem solver for some that are apparently "disgusted" with right/left debate. A safe space, a place that they could share their views without disgust. Now do I hope you continue to converse and have back and forth with some here that lean right, you bet I do...  You set a great example of how to keep your cool and truly get your views across.  You hold your own attacking a topic and not the person that chooses to debate the topic.  And you do it while keeping it all civil.  This is an atmosphere one stands to learn in, and garner respect for other's opinions.

        2. profile image0
          promisemposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Thanks, Credence. I have the greatest respect for your perseverance.

      2. IslandBites profile image89
        IslandBitesposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Yup.

      3. wilderness profile image98
        wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Huh.  Are you sure about that ("It's all of the people who aren't far right like the handful that remains")?  I would never have described MyEsoteric, Credence2 or you as "far right" yet here you all are, remaining on the forums.

        1. profile image0
          promisemposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          I'm down to coming here once every few months to read a few posts and remind myself that fascism in America is alive and well. I don't consider my first appearance in months as "remaining".

          Maybe I'll post again sometime or maybe not. HP is now a much lower priority in my life.

          That said, you misrepresent my comment. Again, the people who have left aren't all progressives. Esoteric rarely posts anymore. I grant that Credence is the lone exception. So, OK, the posts are merely 98% from the far right instead of 100%.

          1. crankalicious profile image95
            crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            I'm in a similar place to Promisem. I find the forums both frightening and depressing. QAnon conspiracies fly by unchallenged. There's little discussion of ideas, just pro-Trump or anti-Trump regurgitations. I find myself addicted to responding and am embarrassed about wasting the time. My inclination is to attack individuals, which is not something I should do. However, there's such a paucity of ideas. Ultimately, I have better things to do.

            In my real life, I'm quite fiscally conservative, personally. I actually don't like the government spending tons of money. However, my politics leads with empathy even though personally, I'm not very empathetic. I think, as a society, we should be empathetic. Seems like we're the opposite of that now.

            There's not even agreement on basic scientific facts. When that becomes the case, what's the use of arguing politics?

            Instead of participate in the forums, I decided to improve the SEO on my existing articles. Seemed more productive to me. My changes have increased my traffic by 30%+. I feel that's a good use of my time.

            If some people prefer this to be an echo chamber, fine by me.

            1. wilderness profile image98
              wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              "I think, as a society, we should be empathetic. Seems like we're the opposite of that now."

              I would disagree with this; there is plenty of empathy on both sides of the fence.  The problem is that one side will fix problems with an endless supply of money while the other wants a more permanent fix of teaching all to be self sufficient.

              But neither side is listening to the other; it is either a socialistic country with "each according to their needs" or "work for what you get or do without" and no middle ground.

              1. Credence2 profile image82
                Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                "The problem is that one side will fix problems with an endless supply of money while the other wants a more permanent fix of teaching all to be self sufficient."

                "But neither side is listening to the other; it is either a socialistic country with "each according to their needs" or "work for what you get or do without" and no middle ground."
                ----------

                Well said, for this is exactly where we are, finding the middle ground is a noteworthy objective. Just where that will be is the source of contention between the alternate ideological views. How do you teach self sufficiency among those that have nothing to start with? Much like pulling yourself up by bootstraps when you have no boots? Even as a radical lefty, I recognize the need to seek a middle ground.

              2. crankalicious profile image95
                crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Martin Luther King has an interesting quote. To paraphrase, state protection is for the rich. The free market is for the poor.

                This is what I mean by empathy. We have empathy for Donald Trump and his bankruptcies but no empathy for the single mother struggling to get by.

                I do agree though. All government aid should be with an objective toward self-sufficiency.

                1. Sharlee01 profile image85
                  Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  "This is what I mean by empathy. We have empathy for Donald Trump and his bankruptcies but no empathy for the single mother struggling to get by."

                  Empathy --- the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

                  You are comparing two problems that might draw out an empathic response. Not sure why one could not be empathic to both?

                  Both would cause distress to the person experiencing the problems at hand. Bankruptcy would cause a business person a loss, and the distress of a loss.  A mother struggling to get by could certainly cause her to feel a loss of control over being unable to or have the ability to support her family, as well as great distress.

                  So, why do you feel if put in the situation of wanting to show empathy to both, for obviously different reasons would be inappropriate? It would appear may be insinuating those that would be empathic to Trump would not have empathy for others.

                  Why do you feel that if someone shows Trump empathy for a business loss, that they are incapable of showing a struggling mom empathy? This makes no sense to me? It appears you are saying very clearly if one shows  Trump empathy they are somewhat incapable to show others empathy.

                  Please explain what your statement meant, perhaps I am not understanding the meaning.

                  1. crankalicious profile image95
                    crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    Part of my point concerns empathy.

                    My other point concerns the basic idea here. I hear Republicans, all the time, vilifying those on welfare. They are failures. They need to be self-sufficient. The government should not give them things.

                    However, I never hear Republicans complain about how the government protects the rich. If a person goes bankrupt, the federal government protects them. A person can lose tens of millions of dollars and the taxpayer is left to pick up the bill. A person can do this many times and the taxpayer is left to pick up the tab.

                    Why is it fine for the government to be the safety net for the rich, but not the poor? And why is it the poor who so often are the target of free market vitriol and not the rich who receive a much more robust protection?

              3. peterstreep profile image81
                peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                In a hardcore capitalistic society, there is no place for empathy. Empathy is to close to helping each other for free. And you can not have things for free in a capitalistic society. That's why empathy should be fought and crippled on all levels. Even in hospitals and schools empathy is thrown away and replaced by money. You buy help. You do not give help, you ask money for it. Money and empathy are a difficult combination.

                There is still empathy in social gatherings like sports clubs, church choirs, book clubs, arts and crafts, cooking clubs etc. But in politics and business empathy is an enemy.

                Still, I think empathy is the glue of society. Helping each other and taking care of each other. This is done in small villages and neighbourhoods. But in the cities, it disappeared.

                When talking about forums. It's good to remember that you talk to somebody. In the heat of a discussion, this can disappear. (I sometimes catch myself on doing just that)

                In the end, there are more important things than the colour of a tie.
                What I see in Europe is that the common ground is found by the Greens. I've talked with people who voted red or blue, both see that things have to change and are voting Green. The discussion is still about how, but the theme is the environment and resources.

      4. Sharlee01 profile image85
        Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

        promisem ---Suggestion, perhaps you could from this day on when posting a thread request that only liberals join in the conversation. I certainly would respect that request. Problem solved. Hopefully, others would be willing to respect your wishes too, or better yet why not skip over comments you find argumentive or against your views.

        I must add for the past few weeks we that are left are getting on fine. This really should tell you something. At any rate, give my suggestion a try. It will be a comfortable space or should I say a solution to the problem.

        I have been ban, and I knew i deserve it... And I would imagine you have been ban and well deserved it. You give out as well as you have received. We can all get along, buck up.

        I must say Cred represents the left very well, and he continues to be well respected for how he gets his view across. I for one like the new comradery here on the Political forum. It has become a comfortable place to converse. This should be telling to those that question how the "rightwingers" handle their conversations. The forum has been peaceful, a nice place to visit.

      5. Ken Burgess profile image89
        Ken Burgessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        When you feel that anyone/everyone that does not see your political views as "far right"  the problem may not lie with them.

        I find it interesting that I can find fault with so much that Trump does.

        And find even more fault in what the Democrats are now doing.

        And because of that, I am "far right", or am I reading your post incorrectly?

    5. peterstreep profile image81
      peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      I think regulating is childish. We are all grown-ups here. And if somebody is deeply offensive on regular bases or constantly disrupting conversations people will tell them.and they will be ignored by the people of the forum. It regulates itself.
      PrettyPanther is here for a long time and respected. You may not always agree with her opinion. But she was not bullying, calling people by names on regular bases or using vulgar language. Not that I remember.
      The forum is interesting because there are different opinions
      And if moderators interfere you can question the freedom of speech on this forum.
      I can understand that Hubpages take some action against trolls and people who suddenly appear in election time with a new account. And even then I think Hubpages should be very reserved when taking action.
      Have a little faith in the people writing on the forum Hubpages!!!

      1. GA Anderson profile image92
        GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        That is also my perspective Peterstreep. Two things seem so obvious that trolls and insultors shouldn't upset anyone: 1) is that old childhood adage about "sticks and stones." Surely Europeans have it too, "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" Of course, I would add "unless you let them."

        And #2 is the most obvious, no one is forced to read any comments. We are all capable of scrolling right past comments that we don't want to read or posters that we don't like.

        I enjoy these forums for several reasons. I enjoy the sincere verbal sparring of different perspectives, I enjoy detailed discussions of topics that interest me, and I think I have grown and benefitted personally from having a perspective challenged when it deserved to be challenged.

        You don't get those from choir room conversations.

        GA

        1. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Exactly Gus.  Again we now live in a politically correct culture to the EXTREME.  This is the aftereffect of the self-esteem movement in which EVERYONE is a winner whether they earned it or not.   Also there is the phenomena of overprotective/intenstive parents in which children are shielded from all types of negativity & opposition least it hurts their feelings.  Many of these children are now adults & they are quite averse to any sort of opposition-in fact, they discombobulate at any thought of difficulty or opposition.

          1. GA Anderson profile image92
            GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Hang in there Grace: #STOPTHEINSANITY

            GA

        2. peterstreep profile image81
          peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Yep.
          I enjoy the conversations here too. The different perspectives etc. An inside in American society. Even if it makes me cringe and my eyebrows rise to the moon. But I guess people will do the same sometimes with my point of view.
          I'm not here to win a discussion or to convert. If the topic goes in circles or not moving forward I leave. Plenty of other things to do.
          I think most of us do. And in this way, I think the Forum regulates itself. If a topic bleeds death, there is always somebody with a new question.
          Personal insults are childish too and tells you more something about the anger of the insulter than the insulted.
          I think though that words can be stronger than stones. But you have to be a bloody good orator to do so. I, for example, learned at school that the Vietnam war was lost because of the changing of the public opinion, created by photos and the media.--- But maybe this is a different topic alltogether.

          1. GA Anderson profile image92
            GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            You are right, words can be very powerful and possibly dangerous, but, that power and danger still require the listener to allow it to have power.

            GA

      2. gmwilliams profile image85
        gmwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        +1000000000000000000000000000000000000

      3. Ken Burgess profile image89
        Ken Burgessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        If only that were true.

        Here in America, we used to have insane asylums, they did away with those in the 70s.

        Today those many millions of people who need medications to regulate their ability to function normally in society without being a threat to themselves or others are just as free to do as they please in the world as you or I... medicated or not.

        Just food for thought.

        Not to mention children also have access to the internet, and could easily create a fake identity and create an account.

        More food for thought.

        In general, it is not the best idea to assume that everyone you interact with on the internet is a rational well intentioned adult.

        1. peterstreep profile image81
          peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          You are right Ken. But I was referring to the hubpage forum. The internet as a whole is a weird place.
          But children are rather spending there time on Snapchat than with boring grumpy adults talking about politics.
          Perhaps once in a while somebody comes around who lost him/her self but this passes.
          I think moderators shouldn’t be to be to busy overhere. Most “cases” will moderate themselves in time.

          1. Ken Burgess profile image89
            Ken Burgessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            This is an "adult" format, where we are expected to maintain a certain level of civility.

            I don't know the reasons, but I can suspect.  When you insult, label, demean people for their views and opinions... that may be acceptable in much of the world today, but I am glad that it is not acceptable here.

            You don't have to respond to anyone, you don't have to read their posts, and you can choose to ignore threads or the forums all together.

            It is a choice to respond, to wantonly go out of your way to label, insult, and post derogatory comments directed at others who do not believe as you do, and if you choose to do that, I have no problems with you being banned for it.  ... If it is something repeatedly done over and over again.

            Attack an idea, or a political group, or a media outlet, but don't attack and insult the individual.

            1. peterstreep profile image81
              peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Attack an idea, or a political group, or a media outlet, but don't attack and insult the individual.

              I agree with that.
              You should always keep in mind that on the other end of the cable is a person. But this can be forgotten sometimes in the heat of the argument.
              But it's a shady one. Some people feel offended personally when attacking an idea they believe in.

    6. Stevennix2001 profile image87
      Stevennix2001posted 11 months agoin reply to this

      I'm surprised she was banned honestly.  What was she banned for though?    Did she say why?   Honestly I don't see how she was banned considering I don't believe I ever seen a thread with her saying anything inappropriate.

      Sure I may not always agree with everything she says but I didn't see anything that she may have said that would warrant a ban but that's just my opinion. 

      If anything I'm more surprised I haven't been banned from forums over her because I know I sometimes cuss a lot in these threads saying shit, fuck, ass and etc for grins.     I remember in the past I would open up all these forums related to sex stuff like asking about sex toys, fetishes and etc.    Yet the only time I ever got banned was when they banned my king Larry account I used to have because they claimed that users here can only use one account in the forums but that was it.   

      Either way I hope she's ok along with anyone else that was banned.

      1. GA Anderson profile image92
        GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Those are my thoughts also.

        GA

        1. Stevennix2001 profile image87
          Stevennix2001posted 11 months agoin reply to this

          really? you think i should've been banned instead too?  thanks.  lol   Just kidding, but seriously though, I do hope she's okay.   Honestly, I think if hubpages isn't careful they're going to lose a lot of their talented writers here.

          1. GA Anderson profile image92
            GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Your closing point has been discussed before. Maybe before HP joined Maven the better writers, like PrettyPanther and Randy, were more important, but now I think it is just a numbers game and this forum could soon be a ghost town by choice.

            I don't like banning either, but it is worse when some of those banned are the last ones any forum regular would expect it to happen to. When logic fails us we will always suspect the worst.

            GA

      2. gmwilliams profile image85
        gmwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Yes, PrettyPanther has been banned(temporarily I hope).  Also Ewent has been banned(temporarily I hope).

    7. Ken Burgess profile image89
      Ken Burgessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      I do not know what caused it, so it is hard for me to judge.

      There are those who have been banned, that I have noted missing, but in honesty those that were did not offer debate, they offered derision towards those who had opposing views.

      They were articulate, they were savvy, they would try and push people's buttons... and then when someone over-stepped in their response, they would be the first ones to report the comment and try and get them banned.

      I do not miss that type of interaction.

      I would miss those who have very differing views to my own, who truly debate with me on the issues, that take the time to try and express their perspective and why they hold the opinions they do.

      Credence is a prime example, we have had ongoing dialogue for half a decade at least, and it helped shift my views, my perceptions of certain matters, my overall comprehension.

      That takes effort and willingness to try and put yourself in another's shoes.  I think this is what at times our dialogue has achieved.

      I have enjoyed your contributions as well, but often our views are more aligned, its more your witticism and less about your opposing views.

      I also know these are more perilous times than many of us want to believe is possible.

      But I have been in countries where things explode, where people are killed and revolution takes hold.

      And the commentary coming from the "leaders" of the Democratic Party, and their actions these past years, have put the country closer to the tipping point than anyone alive has seen... including the 60s.

      We have had a President almost sacked over false Russian conspiracy charges that the Democrats and their supporting media said they had absolute irrefutable proof of.

      Then when they had control of the House, they Impeached him for having the audacity to inquire into the corrupt activities of Joe and Hunter Biden.

      Trump is a blowhard, is less than moral and upstanding symbol of virtue, but if what the Democrats had to offer to the American people was worth anything... they could have let him act like an idiot for his term and then put up someone worth listening to, to defeat him in 2020.

      That is not what is going on now... what is occurring now is much more dangerous, and the depths of what is going on, and how severe it is, is largely being hidden by the "political nature" of it being near to election time, and the ongoing reaction to the pandemic.

      This is from a year ago:

      https://taibbi.substack.com/p/were-in-a-permanent-coup

      Looking back at that time, it seems sane compared to what is going on today.

      1. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

        "Credence is a prime example, we have had ongoing dialogue for half a decade at least, and it helped shift my views, my perceptions of certain matters, my overall comprehension."
        -------

        The experience has been mutual. This has been an ideal medium to bring ideas and opinions, with the opportunity to delve into the controversial without fear, animosity nor disrespect of persons.

        Thanks...

        1. Ken Burgess profile image89
          Ken Burgessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          I thank you, for having a thick enough skin to endure my sometimes "heavy handed" opinions and ideas.

          An example of your impact, I doubt I would have paid near as much attention, or depth of consideration, the trials Sammy Davis Jr. went through in his lifetime, when I was watching a documentary about the Rat Pack not so long ago.

          I don't believe many of the ideas of "restitution" being bantered around today is how you fix it, I don't think demeaning or derogatory treatment of whites is how you achieve fairness and justice.

          I believe a civil respectful effort, where opportunity is given, through grants, through scholarships, through enforced EO, is and has been the right direction, one that helps raise people up without forcing others down.

          I think we need a society that places less emphasis on our racial differences, and more effort on our understanding of one another.

          I truly wish we had an option, an alternative to the choices and paths laid out before us now...

          Too many people believe the worst about Trump (he has himself to blame for plenty of it, due to his own words and callousness) the Left's MSM has done too good of a job villianizing him.

          The alternative is reversing course, gaining nothing, and any good that came out of Trump disrupting the status quo of corruption in DC will be lost.  Biden is nothing if not an Establishment stooge.

      2. Sychophantastic profile image91
        Sychophantasticposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        You keep repeating this lie:

        "We have had a President almost sacked over false Russian conspiracy charges that the Democrats and their supporting media said they had absolute irrefutable proof of.

        Then when they had control of the House, they Impeached him for having the audacity to inquire into the corrupt activities of Joe and Hunter Biden."

        The recent bi-partisan report from the Senate Intelligence Committee shows that the Russian investigation was legitimate. Further, Trump's "interest" in Hunter Biden and the resulting charge was part of Russia's disinformation campaign. It was propaganda. And Trump continues to repeat it. And you repeat it.

        To me, this negates a lot of other points you are making. If you don't accept facts, then how can you draw accurate conclusions?

        For God's sake, even The Washington Examiner said the report was legit and people, especially Trump supporters, need to accept it.

        1. Ken Burgess profile image89
          Ken Burgessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Neither I, nor anyone else, needs to accept anything we do not believe.

          I have my experiences, and my ability to do my own research, I'll trust that before I trust anything from any Senate or House committee, or any news media source.

          Any rational, experienced person with the intelligence and interest in finding the facts for themselves will think the exact same way as I do.

          Now... if you would you like to expose yourself to opposing thoughts on this matter, go ahead:

          https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/13/ob … -our-time/

          https://nypost.com/2020/05/10/obama-mee … ynn-probe/

          https://saraacarter.com/new-docs-reveal … he-nation/

          1. Miebakagh57 profile image53
            Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Good thoughs and signs of maturity.

    8. savvydating profile image91
      savvydatingposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Have you been banned, GA? I don't think so.

      I think Maven has chosen to adopt the rules they've had all along. I say, GOOD for them and it is about time!  And so, I am the odd woman out, which is fine by me.

      The hate & bait crowd are always free to visit substandard sites like Reddit, where they belong.

      As for your friends who are gone, I am sure they appreciate your loyalty. I assume the problem had to do with multiple infractions & personal attacks as opposed to indirect attacks (of a policy or institution).

      My thanks to Credence, by the way, for his even handed debate.

      1. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

        They don't call you "Savvy" for nothing..... thank you

        1. savvydating profile image91
          savvydatingposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          You always make me smile, Credence.

        2. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          In addition to being savvy, she is also classy.

          1. savvydating profile image91
            savvydatingposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Thank you. How kind. I've always viewed you as a kindred spirit here on HP, even as I argue rather vehemently (sometimes) against some of your societal views. Yet, that is the great thing about forming relationships here on HP. We still like each other after the debate because the respect was there all along.... and it has always been there, in my case, for you, GM.

            Have a great evening!

            1. gmwilliams profile image85
              gmwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              You too Savvy.  You were always a woman of class. You are one of the classiest people on HubPages.

              1. GA Anderson profile image92
                GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Oh gawwwddd, Not another love fest . . . Get a room . . . ;-)

                GA

                1. gmwilliams profile image85
                  gmwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  Yes, a love fest.   Gus, you are classy too.  I like your style.

                  1. savvydating profile image91
                    savvydatingposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    Hmmph.... someone's just jealous. wink

    9. dashingscorpio profile image88
      dashingscorpioposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Oftentimes when someone is banned it's because they launched (personal attacks) on those who disagreed with them.

      Some people actually love to bait, fight/argue, and insult others.
      Oftentimes they're just "angry" or want to vent. Some even bully others. I suspect HP and other forums want to maintain a certain level of decorum.

      Personally I miss the old Q & A section on this site.
      However at times it also got quite nasty and answers were voted up or down based upon whether or not people agreed/disagreed with a comment. Having voting and "likes" are usually a recipe for disaster.

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image53
        Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

        I agreed to some extend, like for instance, the ban on 'Das.'             That aside, what else can get one banned?  Talk porno?

      2. GA Anderson profile image92
        GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Of course, you are right. There have been participants that were abusive, obnoxious, and just plain degenerates that didn't deserve a platform for their bile.

        I think that most of the time the line between those folks and the other participants should be obvious. Even though I don't advocate banning, I can accept, and support it being apllied to the worst of the worst.

        But I think the folks that prompted this thread are good examples of why I don't support banning. I have a long history with most of the names that have been mentioned, and of the lot, there is only one that I would say comes close to that line. And as bad as that one was, (in my opinion), I don't think it was bad enough for a permanent ban, (no, I'm not talking about Randy)

        Of all the other names mentioned, I would not consider any to meet the bar of behavior that needed to be permanently banned.

        GA

      3. Miebakagh57 profile image53
        Miebakagh57posted 10 months agoin reply to this

        I disagree with you. 3 weeks ago, I realize I was banned from the forum.                                                I realize this when my posts to forum seems to be put on hold. I can't take it easy because abusing the other person is not my nature. I do no wrong.                                             It happen like this. A fellow writer post a thread asking about writing 'general articles or topics.' My response seems like this: "Why  General topics? Why not write on niche topics? General topics are idiot topics." It is this that earns me a ban! Folks, those I merit it?                                                       I mail team@hubpages.com to find out why. After 24 hours in my inbox was this explaination of "personal attack." I argued agaist it and my profile restored within the next few hours.                               So, if ever you were ban on flimsy grounds find out from team@hubpages.com/ not the editor(at large) lol!

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
          Kathryn L Hillposted 10 months agoin reply to this

          Good arguing!

          1. Miebakagh57 profile image53
            Miebakagh57posted 10 months agoin reply to this

            KLH, you're welcome.

  2. Live to Learn profile image78
    Live to Learnposted 11 months ago

    They have rules. They seem arbitrary, at times, but I've been in forums with no rules and I prefer rules.

    I've been banned before. It would be nice if they tell you the exact place where you mis-stepped but I can say I usually know when I got personally insulting.

    I'm sure pp will be back at some point. I'd be curious what got her banned. She can be personally insulting but I've never seen her disappear when I though she crossed the line.  Must have been a doozie.

  3. Kyler J Falk profile image90
    Kyler J Falkposted 11 months ago

    From what I have seen from the people who have been banned, it takes some really tactless and petty remarks to actually be permanently banned from this site. I'm talking about repeat offenses, and ugly things you'd never say to anyone in the presence of favorable company. However, is the writing on the wall for those who frequent the forums?

    No, but it is on the wall for anyone who can't keep it, at the very least, tactful and coherent. Most of the politics and social issues topics can be equated to a bunch of boomers angrily wheezing at one another, and seeing as that is reality, it is no wonder HubPages is being petitioned to remove the topical forums completely. Personally, I don't see any need for them outside of the HubPages-specific forums.

    Most of the conversation here is the kind of stuff I used to witness on sites like Reddit, 4chan, Tumblr, and other imageboards where degeneracy is the norm. The less congregation of this type, the less chance there is to devalue the site if you ask me.

    Then again, I don't care any further than wanting to see all the angry keyboard warriors lose their outlet. It's fun, though, to sit here and laugh at all the decadence and debauchery when I get a spare few minutes to indulge.

    1. GA Anderson profile image92
      GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      I have also seen the type of conversations you mention on those other sites. My impression is that HP's Politics and Social issues forum is a kid's petting zoo compared to those sites, (and others I have checked out), you mentioned.

      GA

      1. Kyler J Falk profile image90
        Kyler J Falkposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Relatively, yes, these forums are pretty laid back and the disgusting sentiments and behavior tend to be more low-key than the forums I mentioned. However, the use of this site and its forums is a privilege and not a right, a privilege abused by many for the sole purpose of hurting others. You may not take performative cruelty seriously, but HubPages does.

        When they finally cave to Maven's standards and community expectations to make this site strictly professional by removing the forums, comments on articles, and other riffraff, it will be a breath of fresh air for many. In the face of someone's willful cruelty, they are worth less than the ongoing maintenance the staff performs on this site and its community.

        I watched someone who harassed me, with over 300 articles, get banned near-immediately for such harassment. It was an invaluable action taken by HubPages, and it sends a message rippling across the site as we see manifesting here.

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months ago

    Well, personal attacks are no fun.  Also no fun, are criticisms of a person's writing style.
    Gosh!

    1. Miebakagh57 profile image53
      Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

      While that equates a physical fight right there in public place. And  that's among mature adults with a university or professional degree after their names.            Shame! And you know what next? The police!

  5. gmwilliams profile image85
    gmwilliamsposted 11 months ago

    To Gus,  we are now in an extreme political correct culture.  Free flowing discourse is dead or on its death bed.  The name of the game is treading softly, not hurting other's feelings.  Everything is a consciousness of being politically or verbally correct.   This is an outgrowth of the self-esteem movement which is words shouldn't be used to "hurt"  whether it is a disagreement or a stronger retort.   Discussions used to be strong-people were psychologically stronger then.   

    Remember childhood Gus when children sparred & sometimes strong words were used.  Children fought & forgot about it later.   We are living in a softer culture.  Children are taught to be very politically correct & that sparring isn't the normative behavior it was in the past.   Then there is the phenomena of intensive parenting which makes such children even more sensitive to difficulties & adversities.  These are the individuals who fall when things aren't in sync.   Many of these children are adults & are in leadership positions where they put their rearing practices into effect.   20 years ago, people can be less politically correct & nothing would happen; however, we are now living in a very extreme politically correct society.

  6. GA Anderson profile image92
    GA Andersonposted 11 months ago

    Oh hell, just lost another reply due to the infamous "log in" screen.

    In short, we must be dinosaurs Grace. I was raised on that old "Sticks and stones . . ." adage. Apparently words are more harmful than physical assault now.

    I say if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. If your, (generic you of course), feelings are hurt then that is your problem. Deal with it.

    I won't be rude or hurtful on purpose, but . . .

    GA

    1. wilderness profile image98
      wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      When that infamous screen comes up when pressing the "submit" button, log in and then use the "back button" several times until your post comes into view.  Hit the "submit" again.

      Works for me.

      1. GA Anderson profile image92
        GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        That has also worked for me—occasionally, but not always.

        GA

  7. Credence2 profile image82
    Credence2posted 11 months ago

    Mike and Sharlee

    Thanks to you both.

    There is another reason for the variety of opinions that I welcome here, is that it requires one to truly reflect on ones own views, a little soul searching could well be in order to carefully evaluate your own points and reflect upon them as seen from another angle.


    Could they have a point that deserves a closer look?

    1. Sharlee01 profile image85
      Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Very valid point.  I think reflection is needed to understand another view. In my view, human beings form opinions that suit their individual beliefs, what has suited us best through our lives. And we all come about our beliefs due to life experience, how we were raised, who we have befriended as peers. Very complicated to step back and reflect on opposing views. But, it is a wise tip and one we all should consider.

  8. wilderness profile image98
    wildernessposted 11 months ago

    Perhaps HP sees themselves as parents of unruly, cruel children, trying to teach them how to behave.  "Keep a civil tongue when you speak!".

    Or perhaps they just don't want to see the forum degenerate into little but name calling in an effort to hurt the feelings of others.

    I recall a few years ago when one hubber got nasty enough on the forums to send another away, reportedly in tears, from participating at all.  According to her, done in the name of "research" to discover what it took to be banned, that hubber was banned and shortly thereafter took her hubs off the site and moved on.  No loss, IMO, as anyone intentionally hurting another like that isn't needed.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image85
      Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Agree... I have really been trying to practice what I preach.  It's hard at times, I have a short fuse when it comes to politics.  And I have been banned for it.

      1. wilderness profile image98
        wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Me, too.  When addressed with rudeness or name calling I tend to respond the same.  Should just walk away.

        1. GA Anderson profile image92
          GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          I think most of us get caught up in the quest for the prize; "The Last Word."

          Paste this Twain quote to your monitor and put a rubber band around your wrist to snap every time you forget it. ;-)

          " Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

          GA

          1. wilderness profile image98
            wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            LOL  That's for sure.  Might even help!

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image53
              Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Beats me. Can't help laughing, and makes sense.

        2. Miebakagh57 profile image53
          Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Likewise, me too. But I've learnt to respond smart, after a ban. And, if an idiot start attacking me, or my comment/post/thread/article, I play smart againt them, walk away and come back.

    2. Miebakagh57 profile image53
      Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Parenting is spanking the children, and not hurting even the idiots among them! Does HP like the idiots here in the forum? Do your research.     Parenting is  even more about instiling discipline into the child that make them go forward or go up.     Seriously, how about giving a sop to the child? It boost moral!

  9. Credence2 profile image82
    Credence2posted 11 months ago

    Has anybody ever communicated with the people behind the curtain? As forum participants, do we have any say or are rigid rules just applied and enforced from on high without any recourse?

    Is it all impartial?

    Being here for almost 10 years, the powers that be seem unforgiving. Does anyone really deserved to be banned permanently, even the worse of the trolls?

    1. GA Anderson profile image92
      GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      In my off-HP communications with Randy, (he seems to be the ban record holder ;-) ), he indicates that communications with the moderator(s), are not helpful. And that his pleas for "recourse" haven't been successful *shrug*

      As a side note; it seems surprising because we don't usually think of it, but many of us "regulars" have a 10-year history of conversations together. Damn!

      GA

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image53
        Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Very few have links with the editors on and off line.

        1. GA Anderson profile image92
          GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          I think the preferred contact method is one address: team@hubpages.com

          GA

          1. Miebakagh57 profile image53
            Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Yes, team@hubpages.com/  That's the official or formal channel.               That aside, certain writers has offline contact with  editors.

      2. peterstreep profile image81
        peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        As a side note; it seems surprising because we don't usually think of it, but many of us "regulars" have a 10-year history of conversations together.

        Yes, that makes it all a bit strange.
        Perhaps the moderator team is new and has no clue about the long term conversations we have over here. And only had a look at  the last 5 posts or so.

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image53
          Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Yes, I agreed and that is a reality.                          Some leading editors are here just for 2-years.                              Seriously, I would mention names like...but I don't have to.

  10. GA Anderson profile image92
    GA Andersonposted 11 months ago

    Well hell, Ken you have done it again—added to my reading list. I had not heard of Matt Taibbi before, and now I have several more tabs open with some of his writings. I think there were several points of substance in your link. Enough to make me check him out because I agree with those points.

    A thought occurred . . . imagine if we resurrected some of those old Steele Dossier threads and discussed them in light of the new information we have now? Hmm . . .

    As for your thoughts about the forums bans, there will always be yahoos and idiots in any group of people and our small community here is no exception. I don't mind, because as they say; "Ain't no skin off my nose." My scroll finger works fine and I am usually lucid enough to pick the exchanges I want to join. ;-)

    GA

  11. NayNay2124 profile image85
    NayNay2124posted 11 months ago

    Personally, I applaud HubPages for the bans; but they shouldn't stop there. There are a few more on this forum that should be banned. I rarely comment on here because of the people on here.

    1. Miebakagh57 profile image53
      Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

      It seems you're from Plato, for not liking us here!

  12. NayNay2124 profile image85
    NayNay2124posted 11 months ago

    Lol! Its a lot different than it was when I first joined HubPages. The forums are sometimes out of control with no real discussion; just insults. Its sad, but I guess this is the world we now live in.

  13. Miebakagh57 profile image53
    Miebakagh57posted 11 months ago

    I would not disagreed with you. And I hope some a thing or two here, including you, from Plato! Lol

  14. IslandBites profile image89
    IslandBitesposted 10 months ago

    mad

 
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