Colonialism is back:Trunp and Panama: stupidity=ignorance squared

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   Credence2posted 7 weeks ago

   https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-t … es-2024-12
   
   So this attitude is making America great again? Has it occurred to Trump that taking  property from a sovereign nation constitutes an act of war? Trump speaks of exorbitant? He is the very epitome of the word. What sort of 19th century exhumation is this man? Was this not the same guy that had the nerve to inquire of the Danish Goverment whether he could buy Greenland?
   
   Is this what you conservatives call leadership? Only
   Trump can say dumb sh*t like this and his lemmings embrace it, while the press ignore its far deeper implications regarding the qualification of the most powerful man on earth. I look forward to ripping him and his ideology to shreads over the coming years.

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      Sharlee01posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

      Complicated issue---- 
      I believe the U.S. is being taken advantage of with high Panama Canal fees for a long time,  because, as one of the largest users of the canal, we should be getting a better deal. U.S. shipping companies often face higher tolls compared to those from other countries, which seems unfair, especially when our vessels are regularly using the canal. This imbalance feels like an extra burden on American businesses, making goods more expensive to transport and undermining our competitiveness.
      
      As a major global economic power, the U.S. should have more leverage to secure better terms and lower tolls. I see these high fees as part of a larger issue of trade imbalances where the U.S. ends up paying more while others get more favorable rates. Under Trump's "America First" agenda,  he seems to think it's time to negotiate fairer trade deals, and that includes addressing these high fees, which are another example of how the U.S. is being taken advantage of in global trade.
      
      Trump made no secret he wants fair trade deals, this should not shock anyone. I am sure we will see more and more negotiations regarding trade.   
      
      Do you believe that providing fairer trade deals wouldn't benefit our nation?

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         Credence2posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

         I have no issue with "negotiating" at any stage. But, negotiating is different then what is implied by Trump, "taking over the canal". Panama is a sovereign nation and conservatives should be first to acknowledge the Right of any purveyor of goods or services to be free to charge what ever the market may bear.

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         Readmikenowposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

         Shar,
         
         I think we need to realize that the Panama canal was built by the United States.  Many Americans died during the production of that canal.
         
         I think if Panama doesn't reduce it's fees they will feel significant economic pain. 
         
         As far as taking over the Panama Canal, it's a statement that is getting attention.  I think it is nothing more than President Donald Trump using the media to draw attention to an important issue.
         
         The other fun thing is to watch the reactions from the left.  It is interesting how they take everything at face value and can't see how it is part of a strategy.

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            tsmogposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

            "President Donald Trump using the media to draw attention to an important issue."
            
            Yup, a 'smoke screen' to go along with 'the hats, horns, and whistles'. A distraction, well planned and executed. Kudos. Meanwhile on the horizon rumors for the next heavy weight championship bout is just now beginning to gain fuel with contrasting public sentiment - Trump vs. Musk.
            
            And, of course, we are left wondering if he is going with a familiar trainer - Bannon, and the 'New Right' fringe.
            
            Articles Google University show in the last 24 hours or more on the rumored match-up . . .
            https://www.google.com/search?client=fi … p+vs.+musk
            
            Articles Google University shows in the last 24 hours or more about an experienced strategist . . .
            https://www.google.com/search?client=fi … p+dec+2024
            
            Reminds me of that movie, what was it, oh yeah, Dazed and Confused. a coming-of-age film that follows the mayhem of a group of rowdy teenagers.
            
            Of course, probably, maybe at this point in the season we are just getting the opening trailers to the block busters we have been assured will promise to be award winning performances. December and January is when the 'new age' of features arrive for viewing on the national stage.

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            Credence2posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

            Threatening the sovereign rights of an independent nation by the U.S. President is not be be taken literally? Why not? Why should Trump's stupid utterances be excused? Conservatives with their lies and duplicitous behavior remain America's biggest threat....

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               GA Andersonposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

               You're right on this one, it would be dumb to take his Panama statements literally—as in going to take back the canal.
               
               Nobody except folks like yourself take those comments seriously—as in a real possibility.
               
               But, what if his rhetoric does get U.S. rates reduced? Cha-ching, money in the bank, and another win for the incoming team.
               
               I do have an escape hatch for that thought. I don't know any more about the issue than the presented posts, comments, and statements. Are U.S.-flagged ships really charged more? Is the issue that simple, or is it more complicated?
               
               GA

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                  Credence2posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Panama just might of taken Trump's loathsome threats seriously as coming from a menacing global power. Is intimidation the new mode for American foreign policy?
                  
                  Why is it OK for Trump to say ANYTHING, that is bullying. America needs to be called to account by the international community for it. Is it some sort of clever strategic ploy?  But, again Trump is building a "Fortress America" and we go it alone and don't need allies. I judge a man by both what he does and also from what comes from his mouth. What's  next? Trump declares war on Mexico....
                  
                  The President does not the luxury to take a flippant attitude about the things that he says. I also hold that against him.
                  
                  If I were Panama, I would tell the US to go to hell, I would take a defiant tack. If you don't like it, go around the Cape Horn. We charge what we like.

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                     IslandBitesposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                     They kinda did.

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                        Credence2posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                        Did I miss something? Fill me in...

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                           IslandBitesposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                           After Trump said Sunday that the United States "foolishly gave it away" and is now "being ripped off" at the waterway, Panama's conservative President José Raúl Mulino released a video declaring that "every square meter of the canal belongs to Panama and will continue to belong" to his country.
                           
                           Without mentioning Trump by name, Mulino addressed Trump's complaints over rising fees for ships crossing the canal, saying they are set by experts who take into account operational costs, and supply and demand factors.
                           
                           "The tariffs are not set on a whim," Mulino said. He noted that Panama has expanded the canal over the years to increase ship traffic "on its own initiative," and added that shipping fee increases help pay for improvements.
                           
                           "Panamanians may have different views on many issues," Mulino said. "But when it comes to our canal, and our sovereignty, we will all unite under our Panamanian flag."
                           
                           Trump then took to his social media site to offer in response, "We'll see about that!" He also posted a picture of a U.S. flag planted in the canal zone under the phrase, "Welcome to the United States Canal!"
                           
                           He's a child. Trolling or not, what's funny is he only threatens allies and friends. To US enemies he writes them love letters and sends them medical equipment needed by "the people."

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                              Credence2posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                              People tend to stiffen their spines and take a firm resolve against bullies and bullying. I like to see Trump's failure be made known over wider larger circles.
                              
                              It was pretty dumb, thanks for the info.

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               Readmikenowposted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

               "Threatening the sovereign rights of an independent nation by the U.S. President is not be be taken literally?"
               
               There has been no massing of troops on the border.  The military is not engaged on any level.  No, this is not a serious threat.
               
               I would say the huge fees being charged American shipping are no longer being ignored by the Panamanian government.  They are thinking about it.  I believe this move will bring about some change.

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                  Credence2posted 7 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Mike, why can't he simply keep his mouth shut avoid a scoundrels refuge into silly idle threats? As I told GA, the threats could  just make Panama all the more adamant in choosing not to cooperate with the US.

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      peterstreepposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      A very unprofessional statement for a statesman.
      If he really meant it or not is not an issue. It's undiplomatic.
      And if he's just saying it to get some attention than it's pretty pathetic.

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         Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

         Yes, Trump's handlers  need to learn to use the muzzle to monitor his comments and anticipate what ridiculous thing that he will say next.
         
         Any person as President has to be considered as "unhinged" and as a clear and present danger to the international community.

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            wildernessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            LOL  I doubt that anybody can muzzle Trump, let alone those that you would term "handlers".  He is not Biden, after all.

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               Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

               Yes, a proverbial "bull in the China shop", that's Trump....
               
               How many precious artifacts or international relationships will the bull destroy?
               He already has Panama, Denmark, Greenland, Mexico, Canada, I wouldnt want to be seen in the same room with the man.

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               peterstreepposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

               Why do you think Trump said these things about Greenland, Panama and Canada?

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                  Sharlee01posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                  My two cents----It's possible that some of Trump's comments about Greenland, Panama, and Canada were meant to be hyperbolic or even somewhat tongue-in-cheek, as he often used bold or exaggerated language to draw attention and make his points. Trump has a history of using provocative statements, sometimes for effect, to generate media coverage or stir public debate. His suggestion to buy Greenland, for example, was widely seen as an outlandish idea, which could have been an attempt to show his aggressive approach to international relations in a more playful or exaggerated manner.
                  
                  Similarly, his comments about Panama or Canada, especially on trade, could have been framed in a way to underscore his dissatisfaction with existing agreements and to convey a sense of urgency or frustration. In these cases, he might have been using strong language to push for changes or to make a point about what he considered unfair trade practices or missed opportunities, without necessarily expecting all of his remarks to be taken literally.

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                     peterstreepposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                     Tja, you could well be right, but it's a bit strange. Imagine if Mexico would say that Texas should be an extra province, in the end it belonged to Mexico once... I guess the response would be a LOL too!
                     I would think that now Donald Trump is president it's time for him to be a bit more serious.

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                        Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                        I think you need to study a bit more of the history of the United States.  Texas was a providence of Mexico at one time.  They fought for their independence from Mexico.  This led to the Mexican/American War.  This war ended with the treaty of Guadeloupe Hidalgo. Mexico ceded Texas, California, Arizona, New Mexico to the United States.  There were provision in the treaty the United States followed. 
                        
                        Mexico is a bad analogy.

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                           peterstreepposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                           Everything is a bad analogy Readmikenow. As Trumps proposal was absurd in the first place. History is history. The Panama canal belongs to Panama. Greenland to Denmark and Canada to Canada.

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                              Ken Burgessposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                              Why does Greenland belong to Denmark?
                              
                              Is it because Denmark is a member of the EU... and all EU nations are superior to other countries and therefore they can do what they want and determine what belongs to them?
                              
                              The people of Greenland have no say in the matter?
                              
                              Sounds about right... other nations have no rights... like China and Tiawan... Russia and Crimea... but its OK for Denmark to have their satellite states and to keep them by force if necessary.

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                                 peterstreepposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                                 You're completely right. Greenland should be an independent country.

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                                    Credence2posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                                    Is that what the residents of Greenland want?
                                    
                                    There is a difference between a voluntary association, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, American Virgin Islands and the list goes. Who says that these American territories are held against the will of its residents?
                                    
                                    The concept of that choice between ethical and democratic principles AND Trump, Trump speaks only of colonialism and imperialism, solely. Don’t  allow him and his sort to deceive you.

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                                       peterstreepposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                                       Is that what the residents of Greenland want?
                                       
                                       That's of course the first question you have to ask. With a population of 50.000 people, I can imagine they are happy to stay in Denmark (and Europe).
                                       It is also easier to control a government from a smaller country, so an independent Greenland would be an easy catch for the US.
                                       But if Greenland wants to be independent, it's their choice and not the one for Denmark to make.

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   IslandBitesposted 7 weeks ago

   President-elect Trump said Sunday evening on social media that the U.S. owning Greenland “is an absolute necessity,” in a statement announcing Ken Howery as his nominee to serve as ambassador to Denmark.
   
   Howery, a tech investor who co-founded PayPal, was ambassador to Sweden in the previous Trump administration.
   
   “For purposes of National Security and Freedom throughout the World, the United States of America feels that the ownership and control of Greenland is an absolute necessity,” Trump said in the Truth Social post.

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   Readmikenowposted 6 weeks ago

   Ah, the real reason to be concerned about the Panama Canal.
   
   Chinese influence.
   
   According to CNN political commentator David Urban "Urban responded to the former lawmaker by explaining the Panama Canal's connection to China and how China has influence over the area...here is a major player in the Panama Canal that's not Panama, it's China, right? So the Chinese control the two biggest ports at either end of the canal."
   
   "In 2017, the Panamanians rejected the notion that they rejected Taiwan as a country. They sided with China. They recognized China. They signed the Belt and Road Initiative with the Chinese in 2018, expanding their sphere of influence in an area which 70% of all traffic is U.S. traffic going through from one port to another through the Panama Canal," Urban added.
   
   The canal could be legally taken back by the United States.
   
   "The treaty which was signed leaves an out for the United States that says if the neutrality of the canal is threatened, we can take it back," Urban said.
   
   So, it may be time to look at the Chinese influence on the flow of ships through the Panama Canal.  The experts the Panamanian President referred to concerning setting the prices for ships to go through the canal...we're from China.

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      Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      I see that you got me started again, Mike, I thought that you said Trump's inane utterances was part of some bluff strategy?
      
      We are not at war with China and I respect the sovereignty of any nation, that is the America that I remember. Are you going to use China influence in the area as an excuse to bring back Colonialism and imperialism, a la Trump style?
      
      Our enemies and not necessarily Panama's enemies. How is it that conservatives can so obtuse about such matters all of the time?
      
      There will be ramifications that will come with evidence that the United States no longer knows how properly deport itself within the international community if it attempts to seize the canal by force.
      
      You know, maybe the US should just go an seize Greenland by force in the interests of National Security?

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         Ken Burgessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

         'We' are... even if 'we' don't want to accept that reality.
         
         It is a war for economic and global domination... China wants to supplant us... and all the uber wealthy/greedy American financial institutions have participated in making that happen.
         
         The idea was that China would become 'westernized'... foolish to think that another culture would want to supplant its own thousand year history and culture with our own.
         
         From what I can see... 'our' Think Tanks have been outsmarted... and 'our' financial institutions have been outplayed.
         
         That does NOT bode well for you or me... as 'we' fall under the American umbrella... and when our economy tanks... 'we' all will suffer.
         
         Some of us more than others... those depending on a strong economy, government support and/or retirement will be the first to be f'd by the greed running rampant in our government/politics today.

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            Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            So, Ken, now we have the real warmonger and you know has yet to be sworn in: Donald Trump. The Panamanian President is certainly not just handing the canal to Trump, there will be military conflict. What type of Teddy Roosevelt diplomacy is Trump promoting in a post colonial era?  I don't buy it and I hope Panama resists to Trump's embarrassment within the international community.
            
            Helter-Skelter.....

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               Ken Burgessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

               I hate to break it to you, we have plenty of military conflict going on under Biden.
               
               Syria, Iran, Russia...

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         Readmikenowposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

         Having China control any part of the Panama Canal is unacceptable.  This could have a significant impact the US Economy.
         
         As Urban stated, and it is true that this is in the treaty, "if the neutrality of the canal is threatened, we can take it back,"
         
         At this point, the neutrality of the canal treaty is being threatened. 
         
         Taking it back is an option and it's one the Panamanian government agreed to when they signed the treaty.
         
         The United States would be well within its rights to take back the Panama Canal if necessary.

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      Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      Who is this David Urban and what is the basis of his saying that there is legal justification by the US for taking back the canal, would you provide a link with evidence? That is not what I reading from a variety of sources.
      
      Short of war, the Panamanian President is not giving in, as I would not give in either. War with Panama, that will play well among the observers in the international community. America will have become a global beast and bully?
      
      Trump and Trumpers must think that everyone is dumb. The US had an issue with the increasing cost for American shipping transiting the canal. Well, you know, that is inflation. Trump has turned an economic issue into a Cold War type of confrontation in Panama, and its bullshyte.
      
      Who would have thought of occupying the Middle East when crude oil became too expensive?
      
      
      Imagine, in recent days, the Prime Minister of Greenland told Trump that Greenland was not for sale. Who would believe after the stupidity of such a question years ago, that Trump would still be on this shtick.
      Trump is an idiot. Does he not know that the idea of gunboat diplomacy went out of style with Teddy Roosevelt? We on the left will continue to pummel him on this issue to show him for the fool that he is.

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   Kathleen Cochranposted 6 weeks ago

   This is what more of you voted for. Stay tuned for more of the same.

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      wildernessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      How many, in your estimation, voted against the continuing destruction of our people, their economy and their country rather than voting for Trump?
      
      Or is over half our country - some 200,000,000 people, just idiots?  If so, what about the idiots that voted The Great Destroyer, Biden, into office?

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         Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

         Voting for Trump IS the destruction of our people, economy and the very America creed of its professed values. Trump will fall on his own sword and I will wait for it.

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         Kathleen Cochranposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

         Make America Mean Again. Just read these comments.

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   IslandBitesposted 6 weeks ago

   Former Trump adviser: If Denmark can’t defend Greenland, let US buy it to ‘become part of Alaska’
   
   Former national security adviser Robert O’Brien said in a Sunday interview that Denmark should let the U.S. “buy” Greenland if it cannot defend the self-governing country, noting the territory will become increasingly important in the coming years.
   
   In an interview on Fox News’s “Sunday Morning Futures,” O’Brien described Greenland as a “highway from the Arctic all the way to North America” and noted that the autonomous country, which is part of the Kingdom of Denmark, will become increasingly important as the climate warms in the coming years.
   
   “It’s strategically very important to the Arctic, which is going to be the critical battleground of the future because, as the climate gets warmer, the Arctic is going to be a pathway that maybe even cuts down on the usage of the Panama Canal,” O’Brien said.
   
   “Denmark is now on the front lines of the war against Russia and China. They’re like the Baltic states. They’re like Poland because of their vast territory in Greenland. And so they have got to defend Greenland,” O’Brien added. “And if they can’t defend it, we’re going to have to, and we’re not going to do it for free.”
   
   Alternatively, O’Brien said, if Denmark does not want to pay the U.S. for Greenland’s defense, the U.S. can take the territory off its hands.
   
   “They can let us buy Greenland from [Denmark], and Greenland can become part of Alaska. I mean, the native people in Greenland are very closely related to the people of Alaska, and we will make it a part of Alaska,” O’Brien said.
   
   In a Truth Social post announcing his pick for ambassador to Denmark last week, Trump declared that U.S. ownership of the island territory “is an absolute necessity.”
   
   SMH

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      Credence2posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      "They can let us buy Greenland from [Denmark], and Greenland can become part of Alaska. I mean, the native people in Greenland are very closely related to the people of Alaska, and we will make it a part of Alaska,” O’Brien said."
      --------
      
      This statement is the dumbest thing that I have heard this week. What does it take for the thick skulls of the reactionaries to recognize that the idea of self determination of people is not something just reserved for a select few?
      
      Greenland is a continent apart from Alaska, how are they related? How do you make 2 such large and separate geographical areas 1 part? This O'Brian is a kook along with the other 19th century artifacts actually alive and working within the Trump regime. Oh, yes, let's not forget about their ideas of Manifest Destiny.
      
      This all has to be some sort of sitcom, where is Norman Lear?
      
      
      The Danes and Greenlanders have expressed open cooperation with development of military defense installations placed there by the United States. I remember Toole (sp) Greenland AB as the Air Force's equivalent to the Minot ND, in desirability as an assignment during my time in service. But, I would find an assignment there  as an interesting diversion for the possibility of learning something new, much more so than in Minot, ND.
      
      So, why is the Rightwinger always fixated on arm twisting and threats? What part of NO do they not understand? I would suggest that the Danes and greenlanders tell Trump and his cronies to "bite me" in response to his ridiculous demands,

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   Kathleen Cochranposted 6 weeks ago

   They really can justify anything. Well, this is what you voted for folks. Get used to it.

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      Ken Burgessposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      We've had all this and more the last 4 years...
      
      War with Russia... justified right?
      
      Open Border Policy and bringing in another 10+ million migrants... justified.
      
      Spending over 13 Trillion we didn't have... on wars and who knows what... justified.
      
      Making Trans a protected minority.... really... where are the women when it comes to denouncing this...
      
      Yeah... can justify just about anything.

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         tsmogposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

         After Jan 20th, 2025 all will be okay. Change will occur and we will be on track again. Things have been looking up since the wee hours in the morning of Nov 6th when Trump accepted his victory to be the 47th President. Just take a moment and look at what has happen since then creating the setting of a story yet to unfold.

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         Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

         Great point, and thanks for taking the time to share --- I might add---
         
         Since Donald Trump’s re-election in 2024, he has been actively preparing for his second term by laying the groundwork for his presidency. Although he cannot officially enact policies or sign legislation until he is sworn in on January 20, 2025, he has made significant progress in several areas. Trump has announced over 100 key appointments, demonstrating his focus on loyalty and alignment with his vision. He has also strengthened alliances by engaging with influential figures such as House Speaker Mike Johnson to align legislative priorities and many business leaders to promote his agenda and garner support: He has created DOGE, to encourage innovation and government efficiency.
         
         Trump has met with and opened communication with hundreds of world leaders, signaling his readiness to address global challenges. He has verbally issued warnings regarding tariffs, emphasizing his intent to use them as a tool to protect American interests and push back against unfair trade practices. Trump has also shared his plans for how he intends to handle the two ongoing wars in which the U.S. is involved, focusing on strategies to achieve a more favorable outcome while prioritizing national security. Through these efforts, it is clear that Trump has been working tirelessly since the day he was re-elected, positioning himself for a strong start to his second term.
         
         His team has been drafting plans for executive orders and legislation to address critical issues such as border security, immigration reform, and economic revitalization, including tax cuts and energy independence. Trump has also been actively rallying public support, emphasizing his commitment to fulfilling campaign promises and maintaining momentum with his base. By coordinating with Congress, he is setting a robust legislative agenda for his first 100 days, focusing on immigration, economic reforms, judicial appointments, and national security.
         
         Meanwhile, the media seems stuck in a loop, often recycling old controversies and focusing on resistance from Democrats, legal battles, and attacks on many of Trump’s appointees. This seems to be an attempt to divert attention away from the administration’s new initiatives. However, in my view, it’s hard to accomplish this given the significant attention Trump garners for his innovative ideas and his unique way of communicating directly with the public. He’s working tirelessly to implement his vision and make America a better place, which is hard to ignore despite the media's attempts to downplay his efforts.

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