What was the point of fighting on the beaches of Normandy unless everyone gets to have that right subsequently
Hmmm perhaps the purpose of fighting on the beaches of Normandy was so American GIs coould 'comingle' with french babes.. Never thought of it that way before....
Wasn't there another thread exactly like this? Why do people feel compelled to start dozens of threads on the same subject?
I think two forums on the same topic is creepy or opportunistic and cheap.
"Should" is a word for which I care very little--too many people "should all over themselves" constantly.
However, within the constraints of the thread: Sure. Having been raised on a beef cattle ranch and having studied livestock breeding in some detail at one time, I'm quite aware that crossbreeding is often the surest, quickest way to instill vigor (among other benefits) in the next generation. My favorite "cross" in the "cow category" is roughly 3/8 Brahma with...anything. Add a good shot of Brahma blood to Charolais, Hereford, Angus, you name it--and you've got one helluva critter.
Don't see why the same genetic concept shouldn't apply to humans.
I love to go to the "Bahamas," Puerto Rico," "Santa Domingo." where the people are the result of so many ethnic groups.
The ladies are absolutely gorgeous! That's why I visit...:-)
Just my opinion; what beautiful people would be produced if "All" ethnic groups could conjoin!
There may actually something in this - places like these, and in my opinion most especially St Helena, which did not even start with an indigenous population, are really beautiful people, men and women both. They also seem to be be generally 'nice' people, inquisitive and open minded and almost all good intelligence (as my observation against others that I know and myself).
Maybe we are all faulty models like pedigree dogs that are prone to inbreeding problems, maybe when we are all melted back to the original style model we will be better people. Only worth thinking about maybe because it seems that all the problems everywhere seem to stem from a 'special' group, whether they are racist, sexist, homophobic, religious moralisers, majick peddlers, drug . . . . . . and the most enclosed group of all - the super-rich.
I might be inclinded to agree, but I wonder if this line of thinking isn't a kind of racism in its own right...
you mean like nascar and the tour De France ? Armstrong would have a tough time beating Jeff Gordon in that one.
Of course!! And seriously, who isn't going to agree here..No one likes to be called a racist. But fact of the matter is, people are racist!! And it's because ppl don't understand one anothers cultures. It's fine not to understand, but that's where the racism comes in, in a way that is a lot like conflict of opposing religions.
Are you seriously asking this question.....Why? Who cares.....
There's no such thing as races. We're all of us, human.
Human beings are all of the human race. When they fall in love, other concepts of race are irrelevant.
Excellent response! ...:-)
Of course, I agree!
Hope your ok.
In my view love is blind and when love is concerned we dont colour, race, religion or anything because we love that person for being them.
I'd like to see all humans a nice mix of all ethnic colors...:-)
If they want to, why not? There doesn't seem to me to be any reason not to. People are all people. *shrug* I don't understand the reasoning of people who think otherwise...but apparently, we're all in agreement here...for the moment.
In my opinion, there are no separate races. We are simply human. This actually brings to mind an interesting thing I read yesterday.
Did you know that every person's skin is a combination of the same four colors?
Near-surface blood vessels add a blush of red. Pigment adds a yellow tinge. And, melanin, which is caused by ultra violet rays, gives skin a sepia tone. In large amounts, melanin can appear to be dark brown or black.
If you took away the blood vessels, the pigment, and the melanin, guess what color we all are underneath? We are all a creamy white color.
So what do the separate races actually mean? To me, it just means they have a bit more chemicals in their skin than I do, doesn't make them a different race. We're all just human.
You're right. The concept of race is flawed. There is only one race as far as I'm concerned--the human race.
There are obviously different races. Being inclusive and accepting doesn't require us to deny the obvious. It's a little childish to think pretending there are no races will improve race relations.
There are ignorant people out there who will purport that race is real biologically speaking..........and there are those who will agree with them who are likeminded....
This is unfortunate, but the reality of our world...
Yet, there is hope through the youth...for while the older folks may keep attachment to their "racial" comforts...their children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren can be conditioned to understand otherwise (the reverse conditioning that was done over the past 300-600 years of European-related development).
What has been constructed is being deconstructed over time....and I'm loving watching the walls fall down...
"There are ignorant people out there who will purport that race is real biologically speaking.........."
Yes, and some of them are doctors and medical researchers working on finding treatments for ailments that afflict people of certain races more often and in different ways than others.
But screw them if they get in the way of a simplistic but satisfying political notion, eh?
Yeah I can wait until the bigoted old farts die off.
So sad to say; there will be alot of bigoted young farts to take thier place.
Not so many, I think. And um.. what was I gonna say?
Oh yeah, I said I "can" wait. lol. I meant I *can't* wait.
Lol. LOL LOL happyface happyface. LOL
Nevermind. Just ignore me.
Show me the documentation where these doctors and researchers support your views of race.....
Would they agree with your judgments?
Certain races.....no....certain populations from certain specific places....the emergence of recessive traits based on things like interbreeding of populations over time....
Nothing is as simple as some people's politics wants it to be:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editor … d_illness/
And I for one would rather not see anyone of any race suffer unnecessarily just to satisfy some yahoo's political agenda.
"Would they agree with your judgments?"
Judgements? What judgements?
Why is it sad? Race was the first indicator of things a doctor could look for, it was a quicker way to find what disease a patient may be suffering from. Tay-Sachs for Jews, sickle cell anemia for blacks... Yes, we now have more information and 'deeper' ways to discover these things with DNA/genetic testing. If everyone is mixed, it will take more tests to find out what someone may have. Trials and research are still being conducted to be able to tell when a woman is having a heart attack because they present differently in women than men.
Pretending all people are the same in all ways devalues our differences! Skin color alone can't do too much but at least it's one obvious indicator of a person's genetics.
As for "co-mingling", culture would be a more important factor than race I'd think. Two white people from very different cultures may not do as well together as a white and a black from the same culture.
The argument about races is not so simple I think. The only reason that races are commingling at the currently high rate is because of economics. The black population of America is mostly there through economic reasoning, the movement of the European populations is through economic reasoning, almost everyone in America is there for the same reason.
Global business and its trading religion, Christianity, runs most of the big governments and would have us all the same; quietly behaving consumer units living in consumer unit houses and buying predictable consumer goods. Nothing is standing in its way, forests are levelled by companies protected by their governments, and countries levelled for the control of oil and profits.
The idea of one big brownish happy family is attractive on the face of it (pardon the pun) - but racial tensions do not start with colour or race - they start with denigration of one person by another for some kind of gain. Everyone could be sky blue and there would still be separation and division. Also diversity is a key component of evolution, the more diverse peoples there are the better the chances of survival. Maybe more important is the ability to look at our culture, race, grouping, gender, etc., better if there is a different model out there to compare against.
90% of the population of Louisiana is legally black....though a great percentage of that population doesn't look it...
European populations did not all come to the Americas for economics...or at least not as their sole purpose...
I agree with you China man concerning tensions having their root in the "denigration of one person by another for some kind of gain"...which is why European society prior to contact with sub-Saharan Africa, Asia, and the Americas was marked with intense divisions and the dominance of plutocracy....
Though race can diminish, the real conflict...of class, will remain...
This is why "race" is so ridiculous...watching people bashing each other down...people of the same social strata waging war on one another...only hurting one another, while they guys on top are insulated from it all, and can play both sides...as they have always done in the United States...
The drive towards unionization in this country illustrates all of this very clearly....
"The drive towards unionization in this country illustrates all of this very clearly...."
Of course, every topic is really about unionization and the Mexican-American War...
Racism will never end.
Racism and religion will continue to "fragment: humankind and as population increases, tensions will mount to the point of fanatical anarchy.
I wrote a hub about reducing human population.
Doing that with a well reasoned plan will take much too long and would require socialization that cannot be realized.
The only other means would be a catastrophic nuclear holocaust...which, by the way, is the most probable of the two.
"Commingling" is not gonna produce any meaningful result in ref to human relations.
There's not enuf time left for humanity to sexually interface and create a product which would unite all.
The "doodoo" is getting deeper and deeper!
China has managed to contain their population - the social consequences have been pretty predictable and criticised inside and outside China. However I read that more than 80% of Chinese agree with the one child policy in general and that is about what I find among my Chinese friends here. So it is not impossible. The biggest single issue is that commerce and government want more people to enlarge their dominion, it could be an almost accidental function of the human need to repfoduce that they see themselves as so important that they want to increase. The opposite would be true for balanced peaceful lives and for populations to grow where there are resources and diminish where there are not.
"I read that more than 80% of Chinese agree with the one child policy in general "
Nearly 100% understand what happens to those who go on record as opposing official policy.
Yet another pointless and badly thought out quip comment. The one child 'policy' is the law around here - I guess nobody round your neck of the woods pays attention to the law? Or is your problem that this is a law in another country that you, with your amazing world knowledge of Youtube, don't agree with.
Sad...I am glad you post...I'm glad that everyone here can see how you operate...
What a joke.
Is everyone simply overlooking the FACT that everyone is human?
Irrelevant of skin color and/or gender. Each one is human, before they are considered anything else.
The entire human race DNA structure comes from the same pools. Regardless of Country, Origins or anything else for that matter.
How many different pools of DNA are compared- to classify the entire human race? Something like 6 or 8. I'm not exactly sure, but then again, we're all human beings.
Just a thought. Have a great day.
"Is everyone simply overlooking the FACT that everyone is human?"
Has anyone claimed otherwise?
You are right enough - but the race issue is about social divisiveness and domination, we make others different so that we can put them down. The most clear example is the division between American Black and White. It is really hard to enslave another race, or go to their country and kill them, unless you make them somehow less than yourself. So you are right, and the divisions are artificially made for the reasons that Mikelong is trying to explain unsuccessfully to Sab. Sab is promoting the opposite view through ignorance, he is following the media line that he is fed in his enclosed imaginary world, where he gets his information from Youtube and the web, and he clearly has little real-life experience. This is also the situation of the majority of people who don't really have time or inclination to worry about 'issues' and so allow their views to be shaped by the media.
" Sab is promoting the opposite view through ignorance"
Exactly what view am I promoting now?
"and he clearly has little real-life experience. "
I can understand the young fella, but there is no reason for you to feel threatened.
Why would you think I feel threatened by your asinine comments - now if you had some actual views and something to actually say I might think about the possibility.
I would think you feel threatened because of silly comments you've made like "and he clearly has little real-life experience. " when you know that to be untrue.
You don't have to agree with me, but you don't have to get nasty about it.
Oh, and could you answer my question about what 'view' I'm promoting?
Of course Sad.....as you like it...
That must be why you visit my hubs so much..
"Yes, and some of them are doctors and medical researchers working on finding treatments for ailments that afflict people of certain races more often and in different ways than others" (Sad).
Sad and sadder still.....
If you didn't believe in it, you wouldn't use the word in your own writing, especially with this connotation...
And then there is the question and whole orchestration of defense that you are presenting....
I'd like to play you actual, plysical chess Old Man Sad (since you insist on emphasizing my "youth" and your knowledge based on your superior years of experience)...
You can run from your words, but your aged legs can't keep up with the spryness of youth.
"Yes, and some of them are doctors and medical researchers working on finding treatments for ailments that afflict people of certain races more often and in different ways than others" (Sad).
Sad and sadder still....."
What is sad and sadder still? Sad certain populations would suffer unnecessarily because medical research doesn't meet a childish political correctness test? How very humanitarian.
"If you didn't believe in it, you wouldn't use the word in your own writing, especially with this connotation..."
Believe in what?
Don't be coy.
"I'd like to play you actual, plysical chess Old Man Sad "
Gosh, that would be swell...
commingling of any diverse genetic pool nearly always enhances the species.
That's sounds good. But I'll never forget the first truly black Woman I saw. Or the first red headed white man I saw. I think it would be a great lost if these people became extinct. But that's not a possibility for hundreds of years I hope.
If they want to, yes. I wouldn't say they should. I suppose you refer to marriage, right? Or do you mean integration? Integration, yes. Marriage or cohabitation, that's their business.
As I have mentioned before, people of mixed racial background are the fastest growing demographic in the US.
People always talk about the 'racial problems in the US' but the fact is that we are miles ahead of the rest of the world in real tolerance and willingness to discuss (ad nauseum) the topic, and in really living together as well as humans can be expected to.
Where do you get this supposed fact from. Nobody else in the world believes this except you it seems.
"Where do you get this supposed fact from. "
From my experiences with peoples from every corner of the world. (yes, I know no one has any experiences but you ~)
that will be the online world then. Get a life, you are viewed as among the top five least tolerant societies.
I've never been to China, but from what I've read, religious intolerance is an issue there. Certainly the Tibetans would say so. And perhaps the Uigars as well. China is not exactly a paragon of human rights. Moreover, it seems to me misleading to compare racial issues in the U.S. whose heterogeneous population is composed of immigrants of many races and religions from all over the world with China whose population is, as far as I know, much more homogeneous. China is not in a good position to point the finger at the U.S. or other countries on human rights issues. What is the source of your claim that the U.S. ranks in the top five countries for intolerance?
Hi Ralph - sorry I missed your post earlier
There are many religions practised without any issues in China. Many are Buddhist and some Taoist, I have seen a few Catholic and Baptist churches. It is against the law to prosyletise but ok to BE what you want without any restriction.
The Tibetans all still practice their religion as far as I know - the issue there is that the religion was the state beforetimes and so there is conflict between the Chinese authorities and the monks who of course are headed up by the Dalai Lhama in exile. I really do not know too much about Tibet as I know many Tibetans here in China who say they are happy enough at the situation generally - but theylive in China itself so . . I expect to visit Tibet next summer and will make a thread of what I see with my own eyes. The Uighers
China is made up of (I think) 46 minorities or races and all the religions are here but yes - they have been together a vastly longer time than the US and it is not the same situation.
China is not pointing any finger at anyone else over Human rights through my posts - that is just me and my opinion, I put what I see and my opinions openly in my hubs.
I see good in many places and say so - but I am only verbally attacked if I say anything good about China. If anyone wants to comment on what I see here then I usually comment back on what I see there - it is about comparison. If someone wants to argue human rights in China - I like to point back at human rights in that persons country - or what that country is doing to other countries. Nobody is clean and it is never simple.
Intolerance - this is just my opinion from everyone I come across, America is not high on the list of favourite countries at the moment. Many people outside the States are appalled at what the US with the UK, have done in Iraq, and all the history in between back to Vietnam. The New Orleans thing put your standing down big time outside of the US. My students here in China discuss Tibet and Taiwan and point at all the countries where we are active right down to our own home-grown Welsh Liberation Army ! I use the same arguments with them that I use on these forums - shit happens but it is how we deal with it that really counts.
Most Americans agree that Vietnam and Iraq were serious mistakes. Skepticism is rising about Afghanistan.
How do you feel about the working conditions in Chinese factories--does China have anything remotely equivalent to OSHA, the U.S. wage and hour law that provides for 1.5 pay hours over 40, and the right to organize and bargain collectively? Do Chinese workers have any means of redressing unfair treatment in their workplaces? Last I heard they don't. My impression is that Chinese workers work long hours for very low wages in unhealthful, unsafe conditions in plants that are polluting the world's environment. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.
BTW, your English is quite good. Are you Chinese or an English or American expatriate?
" I really do not know too much about Tibet "
If you talk to anyone who trusts you enough to speak freely (and after making sure no one else is listening) you'll get an earful. If you just blow through the tourist spots, probably not.
where do you get the idea that I blow through anywhere - this comes entirely from your own jaundiced view.
I give my opinion from contact with real people and real conversations - and I only give my opinion when I have some information that may be worth sharing.
why do you insist there must be someone else listening in - this is all in your own head - for the record I have done a few things in my life, other than sit online as you appear to have done, and I can tell you from personal experience that EVERYONE is listening in and watching - and everything we write or say over the phone goes through 'security' computers in every country that pick out keywords where the right ones prompt an 'operator' to look at you. Get a life and stop trying to infer that I am under some kind of duress here and that people cannot speak freely.
I daily give open, free and university monitored lessons where the subjects of discussion are Tibet, Taiwan, Xingjiang, the Dalai Lhama, Iraq, Afghanistan, the oil economy, the economy of Africa, western free trade economics, without any hindrance or comment. You should come to one - maybe you would learn something about China.
"where do you get the idea that I blow through anywhere "
I didn't say you would, I said if you did
"why do you insist there must be someone else listening in"
Because when you are in Tibet - especially as a foreigner - there will be.
"for the record I have done a few things in my life, other than sit online as you appear to have done" "You should come to one - maybe you would learn something about China."
There you go again. We've talked about this...
NPR today has been featuring Chinese Internet "Human Flesh Search Engines." From what I gather this is a form of on-line vigilantism which is catching on as a way for ordinary Chinese people to shine the light on corrupt local government officials or other behavior they frown on such as the woman shown on videos stomping a kitten to death with her stiletto heels. Lacking laws, police and courts for dealing with issues that concern them, according to the NPR report, they are taking things into their own hands using Internet and video exposure as a weapon.
Here's a link to an article on the development--
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/03/human … gilantism/
I would be interested in your views on this practice, ChinaMan, if you have encountered it or even heard of it.
No - I have never heard or seen anything like this in any part of China that I know at all well, although this is supposed to be in Beijing I think. My Chinese girlfriend here says that she thinks it is bullshit and I think she is probably right; again she is from Fujian and we live in Wuhan not Beijing.
There are many articles like this with little substance more than an isolated event.
While the efficiency of the police is questionable there are very efficient police courts and a generally good enough system. The main point is that, unlike our culture, the police are rarely needed. Most things get sorted locally - also communities have their own committee or town hall equivalent. Here these bodies are very active and seem to keep social problems on their patch in check in a calm and ordered way. They are also elected bodies with very interesting election systems.
The shame and sacking is accurate. A local university Dean was creaming money and got caught, long public apologies in the press and on the University net appeared and I believe he is now residing in the city nick.
"The main point is that, unlike our culture, the police are rarely needed"
Wrong again. The police are plenty busy and getting busier all the time. You see, China's rapid economic growth has been quite unbalanced, with the booming coastal cities standing in sharp contrast to a still highly underdeveloped central and west. As a result, for more than a decade there has been a massive migration of people from west to east, making coastal ciites and surrounding industrial centers - already crowded - even more so.
And what do you get when you add more and more people to a finite space? Especially when many of those being added are the poorest, least educated, and in many cases in desperate circumstances? That's right, you get crime. And lots of it. In time, that crime will tend to 'organize.'
Like its economy, China's society is changing faster than they are able to keep up (and in all fairness, it would be tough for anyone to keep up), and like the economy is due for a big correction.
Try to keep your youtube backed opinion in check, your imaginary view has no bearing on reality - don't tell me I am wrong and try to lecture me on what I see with my own eyes and maybe we will be able to have an actual discussion.
Well - China is making what you call a 'finite space' bigger, since I have been here in Wuhan - only four years - unbelievable numbers of high quality apartment blocks have been built, a whole shopping complex has been built and filled with successful shops - on its own bigger than any I have seen in any City in the UK - and that is only one of about 3 in this city with main streets to rival any major western city. This has created a huge work place from the building to the cleaning etc., and travelling around China one of these new building cities goes by about every two hours. All of the roads are being remade with flyovers and underpasses at every major city road junction - in every city. I see immigrant peoples working flat out in thousands of different jobs, most of them appear to be temporarily housed in the garages of the new apartment blocks that are still empty, I meet with them when I cycle around the back streets going fishing. I have not seen any increase in crime, pickpockets and bag snatchers are the most active but the same level now as before. There is the same level of little or no police activity unless a few more 'police' boxes at the ends of busy 'backstreets' count with a couple of sleeping guards inside. The traffic police seem to have increased with the traffic and now actually look as it they know what they are doing. And in the long list of cities I have visited it is all the same.
Correction in their economy is wishful thinking, they have an enormous 'sink' of consumers, and every level is getting generally 'more'. The government have the cash to ensure the housing market does not slip and so the building goes on and economy has slowed to a low level that is still high enough that most western countries would die for. I think they can continue increasing for years and years yet.
And don't start by telling to see, I am here and I am seeing and your imagination of what is happening is not here to be seen, using words like massive and sharp contrasts and crowded is redundant in this country that has always been that way. There is no massive movement of people in our terms, no hobo-esque villages rife with hobo crime, the already high incidences of petty crime will have increased with increased numbers - nice to see that violent crime is still pretty much unheard of.
"Try to keep your youtube backed opinion in check"
There you go again
"don't tell me I am wrong and try to lecture me "
Only when I have to.
"unbelievable numbers of apartment blocks have been built"
" I see immigrant peoples working flat out in thousands"
And what does that tell you? Right, it tells you the population of that highly concentrated population center continues to rise. And what do we get when that happens? Come on, you know the answer...
" housed in the garages of the new apartment blocks that are still empty"
See? And what do you think, nothing but majong going on there?
" I have not seen any increase in crime"
I think I've made clear what I suspect about what YOU see.
"There is no massive movement of people"
That is simply incorrect. This is a more than decade-long trend.
"Correction in their economy is wishful thinking"
Why would I 'wish' for such a thing? It is a matter of fact. The RMB is at least 25-40% overvalued now and increasing pressure is being brought to bear on Beijing to let go the artificial controls. Their backs are getting to be up against the wall on this but if they do it will blow up their economy in a bad way. In addition, the central bank has spent years lending like crazy to regional banks and institutions that are not looking likely to be able to meet their obligations on those loans. Do you think all this growth and building just popped out of thin air? Maybe you haven't noticed but there has been a lot of evidence recently about what happens eventually with uncontrolled and/or ill-advised lending.
It has nothing to do with what I 'wish' or what you think you see when you look out the window. It just is what it is. The gov. there could have corrected for this years ago when it would have been relatively easy, but now it will be tough. Not impossible, but a rough correction one way or another seems likely. There is nothing personal about it and it needn't threaten the identity you have decided to cling to so desperately as "Foreign Guy Who Loves China!"
"they have an enormous 'sink' of consumers"
Yeah, those guys living in half-built parking garages are no doubt stimulating the economy like crazy, what with all the new cars and such they are buying.
You get your info from an American Uni paper - I get mine from looking at what is happening. One problem is that you do not read or understand what you are looking at even when it is laid out for you.
He states clearly, 150,000,000 migrants in 25 years - this is around 6 million per year - when you compare it to one single city like Wuhan where we have around 1.5 million students alone in all the different colleges and Unis - it is almost insignificant. These may be scary numbers to you but here they are dealing with them reasonably well.
As of course you would know if you had been here with your eyes open.
"Not that you would understand this "
There you go again...
"One problem is that you do not read or understand what you are looking at even when it is laid out for you"
"you would know if you had been here with your eyes open"
Again and again the same thing. You deny any reality that doesn't fit your preconceived notions and your need to see yourself as the 'defender' of China. It is simply not rational.
The facts are the facts no matter what that does to your ego.
You caught this part, I presume? "perhaps the largest movement of labor in human history." Sort of contradicts your declaration that "There is no massive movement of people," right?
Come on man. You don't have to love me, but don't try to alter reality. You are letting your emotions cloud your thinking.
I have just given a reasoned response to your previous comment in an attempt to discuss with you. If you don't like your preconceptions and prejudices challenged then put up a reasoned response - your answers invariably amount to unsubstantiated personal attacks on me. You are a troll and don't deserve the few seconds of my time it takes to respond to you.
I provided two links to information that backs up what I've said. I even showed you where the facts I presented directly contradict your claims. You responded by denying that information (just as you are trying to do with Deeds) and insisting that reality is whatever you say it is because of your current address. That simply makes no sense.
ChinaMan, FYI, here's a link to an article in Sunday's NYTimes entitled "China's Cyberposses" which describes the "human flesh searches." Apparently this is not just a rumor.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/magaz … f=magazine
You seem to be an intelligent guy - if you read right through the article you find at the end -
"I met a film director in China who was about to release a feature film based on a human-flesh-search story and a mystery writer who had just published a novel titled “Human-Flesh Search.”"
You are being fed hogwash by the cynical publisher, a phantom 'film director' trying to drum up interest in his movie, and story by a 'mystery writer'.
This is how China is represented by the media generally and how most people get their information. I guess this is why some people attack me personally when I post up normal everyday stuff that contradicts the bullshit.
The fact that somebody is planning to make a movie about "human flesh searching" in China certainly doesn't indicate that the phenomenon doesn't exist. There may be a question about what the extent of it is. The NY Times attempts to be quite careful about the accuracy of what it prints. As far as I know there is no equivalent independent source of news in China.
Well yes there is - The China Daily frequently publishes articles critical of Chinese affairs. They do not go in for the kind of ridiculous shit that actually goes on that they could print about other countries, in fact I rarely see any criticism of others outside China unless it is in the form of a reported political speech that is available anywhere.
They do censor quite hard. The political censorship is about the equivalent of the western press reacting to communist issues. There is also no real culture of criticism of elders, ancestors and authority.
They genuinely believe in censoring pornography, the general attitude to it is of disgust rather than titillation; the recent poke in the eye for Google was based on pornographic content which is maybe half true along with favouring the chinese competition. This favouring is open rather than hidden in forced 'free' trade agreements etc.
The NY Times, like the UK newspapers, are always happy to print negative stuff about China in the same way as the negative views expressed by the minority of one on this forum - positive stuff is either ignored or shouted down - or the writer personally attacked for being biased. The N Y Times does not have to worry about proof or prosecution when printing this kind of, at best, misleading stuff. Nobody here has heard anything like it, I have asked.
Actually there has been quite a lot of positive coverage on China in U.S. media. For example James Fallows long, objective articles in the Atlantic based on his living in China for the past couple of years. I suspect it may be difficult for you to judge U.S. media from China. And, as you know, we have no government censorship here. Your contempt for the NY Times and U.S. media is misplaced. It sets the standard for the world.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … d=15773915
http://www.google.com/search?q=James+Fa … =firefox-a
Sorry Ralph - I have been bit busy to get back.
I was also trying to think of something sensible to say about your post.
Many people in most countries thinks their media is fair and reasonable - just because the bias agrees with yours does not mean it is not biased.
Of course there is positive coverage about China now and again, but the overwhelming bias is negative and mixes genuine stories, and genuine concerns, with out and out bulldung stories pulled out of their a**.
I tried to refrain from laughing at your idea that the NY Times and US media set the standard for the world because in some cases it does - it sets the standard mostly for double standards.
What U.S. media sources do you base that assertion on? Which U.S. media do you read regularly? I read and watch quite a variety of U.S. media. Yet you are contradicting me? Just curious why you think you are such an expert on American media? Perhaps you're just reading ABOUT U.S. media rather than actually reading it? How often do you actually read the NY Times. Coming from China, your comments are almost laughable, almost as if you are tailoring what you say because you know somebody is watching.
I would have to agree, the New York Times is a bit of a joke.
No conspiracy theory - I am English and old enough to have read it all for 50 years or so. You will note that I make no defence of Chinese press, or even mention it, and nobody is looking over my shoulder as there is no equivalent of Homeland SSecurity here, and there are more than enough American news sources freely available here.
If you can't see that your press is completely biased toward its own culture and agenda then you need to get out around the world a little and see what others write.
There are certainly biases in the U.S. press, including our premier newspaper of record, the NY Times. However, we have quite a variety of news sources, print, television and radio, including BBC broadcasts and Al Jazeera which offer a broad spectrum of viewpoints. This makes it possible, for anyone willing to take the trouble, to find the truth on nearly any subject, including current political, economic and social conditions in China. China has come a long way from Chiang Kai Chek and Mao, but it still has a long way to go before it reaches western standards of government, justice and social conditions. As far as nobody watching you, you may be right but not because the Chinese government doesn't watch communications on the Internet. Perhaps you haven't been reading about the issues involving requests to Google for access to communications and identities of Chinese dissidents and hacking into various computer data bases originating in government computer educational facilities. Perhaps you should visit the U.S. on your next vacation and get a first-hand view of conditions here!
I have noticed - but generally take little notice of it all. This kind of stuff goes on all the time both ways. I also noticed a similar criticism - something about more hackers originating in the US than any other country, I took the same little notice. I think it probably has more to do with Google not doing so well in China for many reasons - not all of them very fair play from the Chinese in trade terms.
I also noticed some criticism about China in Africa not doing what America wanted - I guess this kind of thing will happen more frequently as China moves into areas previously in the American spheres of influence. My own opinion of this is that the US and the UK and Europe and Russia do not seem to have done much good to the African continent and I would be unwilling to criticise China before we see if they do any better. I do know that there are many many African students here, the local big Uni hosted a multicultural event where most African countries were well represented in the student population.
All the news services you mention are available here and freely available to anyone, the occasional exception is if some service criticises China they may turn it off for a week or two. Facebook is blocked here which IS irritating.
"All the news services you mention are available here and freely available to anyone, the occasional exception is if some service criticises China they may turn it off for a week or two. Facebook is blocked here which IS irritating."
Just curious, when was the last time you read "The Nation," "Mother Jones," "The Washington Spectator," "Harper's," "Counterpunch," "National Review," "Rolling Stone," "American Spectator"? I could go on for a while longer, and I find it hard to believe that a broad spectrum of American publications are available to the public in China. Some are no doubt available on the Internet, usually for paid subscribers. I've never been to China, and am not particularly knowledgeable about the country. However, I read widely, and I don't perceive a great bias against China. If anything the establishment view is one of blind devotion to the principle of free trade and opposition to the introduction of labor rights, human rights or environmental considerations seriously into trade negotiations. Intellectual property issues are always near the top of the agenda, however. If anything, I perceive that the prevailing message from American media is that both the U.S. citizens and Chinese workers benefit from trade and that income and working conditions for Chinese workers, while not up to western standards have improved significantly. That is the prevailing message delivered by the mainstream media from the U.S. foreign policy establishment to the American public.
Ｔｈｅ ｐｕｂｌｉｃａｔｉｏｎｓ ｙｏｕ ｍｅｎｔｉｏｎ ａｒｅ ｎｏｔ ｗｈａｔ ｍｏｓｔ ｐｅｏｐｌｅ ｏｕｔｓｉｄｅ Ｃｈｉｎａ ｗｏｕｌｄ ｂｏｔｈｅｒ ｔｏ ｒｅａｄ， ｍｏｓｔ ｃｏｕｎｔｒｉｅｓ ｈａｖｅ ｔｈｅｉｒ ｏｗｎ ｂｒａｎｄｓ． Ｂｙ ａｖａｉｌａｂｌｅ Ｉ ｍｅａｎ ｔｈａｔ ｔｈｅｒｅ ｉｓ ｎｏ ｂａｒ ｔｏ ａｎｙ ｏｆ ｔｈｅｍ， Ｉ ｓｅｅ ｔｈｅｍ ａｒｏｕｎｄ ａｎｄ ｉｎ ｔｈｅ ｓｔａｎｄｓ ｉｎ ｔｈｅ ｏｃｃａｓｉｏｎａｌ ｗｅｓｔｅｒｎ ｓｔｙｌｅ ｈｏｔｅｌ ｗｈｅｎ Ｉ ｇｏ ｆｏｒ ｄｉｎｎｅｒ ｏｒ ｍｅｅｔｉｎｇｓ ｅｔｃ， ｂｕｔ ｏｎｌｙ ｗｈｅｒｅ ｔｈｅｒｅ ａｒｅ ｌａｒｇｅ ｎｕｍｂｅｒｓ ｏｆ ｐｒｅｄｏｍｉｎａｎｔｌｙ Ａｍｅｒｉｃａｎ ｇｕｅｓｔｓ． Ｍｏｓｔ Ｕｎｉｖｅｒｓｉｔｉｅｓ ｔｈａｔ ｈａｖｅ Ａｍｅｒｉｃａｎ ｌｉｎｋｓ ｗｉｌｌ ｈａｖｅ ｓｏｍｅ ｏｆ ｔｈｏｓｅ ａｂｏｕｔ ｔｈｅ ｐｌａｃｅ ａｎｄ ａ ｇｏｏｄ ｓｐｅｃｔｒｕｍ ｏｆ Ａｍｅｒｉｃａｎ ｐａｐｅｒｓ ａｖａｉｌａｂｌｅ， ｉｆ ｔｈｅｙ ｈａｖｅ ｌｉｎｋｓ ｗｉｔｈ ｏｔｈｅｒ ｃｏｕｎｔｒｉｅｓ ｔｈｅｎ ｔｈｅｉｒ ｓｔｕｆｆ ｗｉｌｌ ｂｅ ｔｈｅｒｅ．
Ｉｔ ｉｓ ｎｉｃｅ ｔｈａｔ ｙｏｕ ｓｅｅ ａ ｇｅｎｅｒａｌｌｙ ｐｏｓｉｔｉｖｅ ｔｒｅｎｄ ｔｏｗａｒｄ Ｃｈｉｎａ ｉｎ ｔｈｅ Ａｍｅｒｉｃａｎ Ｊｏｕｒｎａｌｓ， ｗｉｔｈｏｕｔ ｉｔ ｎｏｂｏｄｙ ｉｓ ｌｉｋｅｌｙ ｔｏ ｌｉｓｔｅｎ ｔｏ ａｎｙｔｈｉｎｇ ｆｒｏｍ ｈｅｒｅ ｔｏ ｆｏｒｍ ａｎｙ ｋｉｎｄ ｏｆ ｏｐｉｎｉｏｎ． Ｉ ｈａｖｅ ｔｏ ｓａｙ ｔｈａｔ ｉｔ ｉｓ ｔｈｅ ｎｅｇａｔｉｖｅ ｓｔｕｆｆ ｔｈａｔ ｉｓ ｎｏｒｍａｌｌｙ ｄｒａｗｎ ｔｏ ｍｙ ａｔｔｅｎｔｉｏｎ ｆｏｒ ｃｏｍｍｅｎｔ ｂｙ ｗｅｓｔｅｒｎｅｒｓ； ａｎｄ ｏｆ ｃｏｕｒｓｅ ｔｈｅ ｎｅｇａｔｉｖｅ ｓｔｕｆｆ ｔｈａｔ ｍｙ ｓｔｕｄｅｎｔｓ ｂｒｉｎｇ ｔｏ ｃｌａｓｓ ｏｃｃａｓｉｏｎａｌｌｙ．
Ｙｏｕ ｍｅｎｔｉｏｎ ｆｒｅｅ ｔｒａｄｅ ａｎｄ ｔｈｅ ｏｐｐｏｓｉｔｉｏｎ ｔｏ ａｎｙ ｔａｌｋ ｏｆ ｌａｂｏｕｒ ｒｉｇｈｔｓ － ｉｔ ｗｏｕｌｄ ｂｅ ｎｉｃｅ ｉｆ ｏｎｅ ｏｕｔｃｏｍｅ ｏｆ ｅａｓｔ／ｗｅｓｔ ｒｅ－ｂａｌａｎｃｉｎｇ ｗａｓ ａｃｔｕａｌ ｆｒｅｅ ｔｒａｄｅ ｎｏｔ ｔｈｅ ｐｒｏｔｅｃｔｉｏｎｉｓｔ ｇａｒｂａｇｅ ｔｈａｔ ｉｓ ｂｅｉｎｇ ｐｅｄｄｌｅｄ， ａｎｄ ｌａｂｏｕｒ ｒｉｇｈｔｓ ｂｅｃａｍｅ ａｃｔｕａｌ ｒｉｇｈｔｓ ｉｎ ｂｏｔｈ ｃｏｕｎｔｒｉｅｓ ｂｅｆｏｒｅ ｗｅ ａｌｌ ｇｅｔ ｂａｒｃｏｄｅｄ ｆｏｒ ｅａｓｅｉｒ ｃｏｎｔｒｏｌ．
I wonder what happened to ChinaMan's post???
Here's what may be an example of "human flesh search"--
http://hubpages.com/hub/Sex-Diary-Expos … Debauchery
What happened to my post is that I have a translator programme running that changes the font and I am too dumb to know how to change it back without turning the whole thing off and on again.
Good. I was worried that you might have run afoul of government censors and were perhaps even languising in a small cell chained to the wall! :-)
I am ! but what do my sexual preferences have to do with anyone !
Ha! NPR had an interview this week with a former dominatrix whose book on her experiences has just been published. The book is entitled "Whip Smart: Memoirs of a Dominatrix." The interview was quite interesting.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … =124369913
Someone's just being defensive about his 'turf' again.
"Well yes there is - The China Daily frequently publishes articles critical of Chinese affairs. "
It publishes NOTHING that the central government doesn't ok.
And if you think folks in China don't like porn you're out of your mind. China is located on planet earth and populated with human beings.
Clearly NOT your kind of being.
I clearly said there is censorship, Oh sorry I used a long word, this means that the government control what can and cannot be pronted - and I did not say they some people don't like porn, I said that they generally consider it disgusting.
While it is an improvement that you actually answer without posting some random propaganda or youtube link, you really should engage with what I write and not just answer the vacant preconceptions and prejudices that come from your own mind.
This coming from the guy who would defend CCP-scrubbed propaganda as 'legitimate news'? Right
"you need to get out around the world a little "
Like you, right?
"Oh sorry I used a long word"
There you go again...
"I said that they generally consider it disgusting"
And you are wrong. "They" ( ) are just like everyone else. More older people frown upon it and lots and lots of younger people are interested in it.
"While it is an improvement that you actually answer without posting some random propaganda or youtube link, you really should engage with what I write and not just answer the vacant preconceptions and prejudices that come from your own mind."
There you go again.
NO they are not like this in any way. It is becoming more clear every post that you are only getting your info from your own head. The cultural trend cannot be classified like western but in the villages they are very traditional, young and old, and in the city they are superficially postmodern but with a strong streak of Romanticism, young and old. This mix can be compared to the very moral christian factions except that it is across young and old alike. About sex they have very strong feelings and strong morals.
Like everywhere there always will be the few giggling little boys playing with themselves and online weirdos, if this is your world then I guess this is only what you will see wherever you go and whatever you do.
LOL! You are living in a fantasy world of your own creation. There is a real country all around you - have a look some time.
You have constructed a fanstasy land of your own imagining and you are trying to force the reality to fit, but it doesn't and it won't.
Remember how we talked about rapidly expanding urbanization? Well, whether you like it or not, China is just like everywhere else in that rural areas tend to be more conservative than urban areas. And where did we agree that population is rapidly concentrating? Yes, that's right.
Why do you think the fossils in Beijing work so hard to block various websites? Because just "a few weirdos" want to see them? Use your head and let go the ego a bit.
If it makes you feel any better, I knew of some computer students ahead of their time when I was teaching at a college in China and they looked at porn all the time, and all their friends who were of that age when young men are so inclined were lined up to join them. Didn't find it "disgusting." Many of my friends and former students in China now lament - just as their counterparts here do - that they have to be vigilant about keeping their kids from that sort of 'adult' content and that is even with all the PRC censorship crap.
Hell, most people couldn't imagine getting internet access in China when I was there, but prostitution was as common as it is everywhere and every weekend all around campus every shrub or secluded spot was occupied with young people doing what they do, and there was a booming business in 'no questions asked' clinics for STDs and pregnancies.
Chinese people are PEOPLE, not characters in some Disney fantasy land you have imagined for yourself. Come on man, snap out of it.
I have been to around 30 cities now and seen various degrees of behaviour, and not anywhere would Chinese of any age be seen dead 'doing it' in public. Unless you mean holding hands and gazing into each others eyes - in which case it hardly qualifies as sexual behaviour.
The scenario you describe is just so untrue that it is becoming clear that you either have never been here or are just lying.
Again you simply deny reality that doesn't fit your preconceptions. These were students living in cramped, basic dorm rooms. They had nowhere to do their thing but in dark, secluded areas whenever they could. It was at night and as out of the way as possible, but it was common knowledge. You could stroll the campus late on weekend nights and notice lots of furtiive coupling going on. The students would joke about it over drinks at the night markets. This is what happened whether you like it or not. No number of tour packages you've been on will change the fact.
I don't know why you won't do the Chinese people the favor of considering them human. Come out of the bubble, man.
There you go again...
I'm telling you what I saw and heard first hand. Do you really think reality is limited to what you say it is? Open a window.
" The New Orleans thing put your standing down big time outside of the US"
The people outside the US who thought we could control the weather must have been very disappointed.
" they have been together a vastly longer time than the US "
Yes and no
"There are many religions practised without any issues in China"
As long as they are state-approved and practiced within PRC guidelines. The situation would not be accepted by people in the US or the UK.
"that will be the online world then."
Wrong again, Mr. Polo.
As much as I don't like to get in "discussions" with TK/Sab Oh I will bite.
Yeah...us Canadian's are so far behind the enlightened of the US... I mean a policy of multiculturalism, two official languages. I guess the Underground Railroad was just a blip.
Racism does exists in Canada but it's a kinder, gentler racism
There are places worse or as bad as the US, but you certainly can't claim that the US is ahead of everyone in the world in tolerance.
"Racism does exists in Canada but it's a kinder, gentler racism "
That's not what I hear from many people of Korea and/or Chinese origin who have lived in big cities there.
If you want to call it even I'll allow that much, but it still remains that in the US we discuss, deliberate, and agonize over the subject more.
Sorry, you misunderstood..
"Sad" is my pet name for "Sab-oh", also a.k.a. TKSensei...
"Jew" is not a race...it is a religious and cultural group. There are many Jews who derive from people who accepted to follow the religion of Judaism, and share no lineage to Jewish people. This is also remembering that Jewish people themselves only reflect the specific people of the southern Kingdom of Judea (2 tribes of Israel) following the split between the the 12 tribes...the northern Kingdom of Israel....history has largely lost them...at least as I am aware..
Genetic diseases are, if I am not mistaken, largely the result of inbreeding, when recessive traits that would otherwise remain dormant, become active....I know that there are exceptions, but do point to Tay-Sachs, which is recessive based.. Let us also remember that "Jews"...more properly Askenazi Jews are not alone victims of this mutation...how would Southern Cajuns suffer from this disease as well?
DNA has only proved that there is virtually no distinction between human beings.....
"White" and "black" are social constructions made to divide people who had more commonality politically, economically, and socially than those who wrote the laws and created the terms and definitions....
What is the definition of "black" in the United States?
To have to check the 'African American" or "Black" box in an official form, how does one qualify?
""White" and "black" are social constructions made to divide people who had more commonality politically, economically, and socially than those who wrote the laws and created the terms and definitions...."
And you don't care who has to die to promote that poltical position...
...what a humanitarian...
I think it really sucks when the mix the 50 meter race with the 100 meter race!
mike, yes I know the Jews aren't really a race, or at least I don't think so. And that specific disease is one highly prevalent in Askenazi/Ashkenazi? Jews for whatever reason. If the reason is inbreeding though, that would point to differences in people because otherwise, wouldn't the recessive genes be in others as well?
Black and white are not only social constructs, they're visual. But skin color alone can't tell enough, my grandfather was so dark (native American) that people were surprised that I had a "black" relative because I'm white enough to be called literally white. Or used to be.
What box to check? My grandchildren are registered with their tribe and have the smidgin of indian from my side as well so what do they mark? White? And ignore a large part of their ancestry? I used to think this was mostly America that was so mixed but as I study more history, I hardly see how we have any diversity left in the world! Here we humans are trying to make everyone the same and scientists are fretting over the decreasing diversity in the rest of nature...
Dark skin tone and lighter shades of skin tone exist...we all know this...
We also know that this is directly proportional to where one lives in relation to latitude...
Race is not "black or white"...but the identification of something that does not exist along the selection of certain traits and characteristics that are deemed "approved" while others are not....
Referring to my question about the "white" or "black" box selection...
A "white" person can only be brought down by the finding of "black" ancestry...1/37th..I believe... Wheras a "black" person who's relatives are "white" remains in the lowered state...whis is, again, specificaly the differentiated treatment of people based on a set of official or unofficial laws derived by elites who desired a divided labor force....
"White" and "Black" were equally indentured servants before the institutionalization of slavery in the United States....and cominling was common...as was the running off of Anglo-colonizers with Native American peoples..
Laws began popping up in the late 1600's.....things started changing......and one group of indentured servants became slaves while the other grew to become, in part, the overseer/pattyroller class.....at least in the agricultural use of slavery...
If you knew "Jews" were not a race then why did you try to state otherwise?
I am reading your words, but I don't know quite what you are seeing..
In other words, race obviously exists just as people with common sense know it to. Some PC-zombies think they are scoring points by trying to play with terminology in a childishly simplistic manner. There is no need to consult the radical lefty dictionary in order to treat people with respect and prevent the kind of discrimination that is already illegal in the US.
Everyone on the planet has Red blood flowing through their veins, if you know otherwise - hollar at me...
I was very fortunate to go to a school with just about every race represented. My friends were from all different races... Chinese, Japanese, Black, White... whatever.
I couldn't imagine a life where I had to spend it with only people who looked exactly like me. I would have missed out on so much.
I'm surprised this question was even allowed to stay posted as the implications of the message it conveys are so anti human.
I wasn't so fortunate as you. I went to a totally segregated school in Louisiana, grades 2-12. And in college in my freshman class of 1,800 there were only two blacks, one girl and one boy who was a football star and a scholar.
I posted this very relevant question.
Why do you think the premise is "anti-human?
I can't speak for Mike about 'relevant', but I was amazed that the question was posed since it implies there are legitimate arguments that we should NOT intermingle races.
If you can't imagine living with only people who look like you, wouldn't it be better not to have everyone mixing? When everyone is mixed to medium brown and has all the same attitudes, no dissent allowed such as biases, opinions based on different life experiences, or any spiritual or political beliefs that differ from the standard, discrimination will be worse. Kind of like the society in Ayn Rand's book Anthem. No individuality allowed.
I read through about half of the responses, not enough time to read them all. I will say that I think the term Race was created by the European. I see only nations, like my ancestors were here in N America, many nations. I am of Cherokee blood and we are all human beings.
I can't think of any reason NOT to mix races, oh wait, races don't exist, right?
Anyway, I can't see why not but I don't think it should be pushed as a way to show one's political correctness and tolerance. If someone chooses to be with someone of a different race, it's a non-issue. If they choose not to, no matter how deliberately, it's still a non-issue.
I have no problem with interracial marriage - more power to them, as love truly is color blind. I do, however, enjoy cultural diversity. I've had white friends, black friends, Hispanic friends, Native American friends, European friends, and Asian friends, and I love something unique about every one of their customs and traditions! I think the world would be boring if we were all just alike. Of course, I guess we would still have cultural diversity even if we were all the same color?
You would have to really love a man to marry him if he is color blind, genetically speaking, if you also have color-blindness that runs in your family as well, your children would have to deal with their color-blindness all of their lives, had to even play video games that have color challenges, etc.
I suppose I would notice if we were co-mingling species, that is a disaster illustrated in nature, but humans are all the same species, so no, what could possibly go wrong with that, well, if the man is 6'4" and his wife was 4'0" she would have a hard time in the birth process maybe, but with medicine today, it could be overcome, but people in love can conquer physical issues of all kinds, yes?
Sure . . . 'cause all the same color inside . . . then again, I am fixed because I believe the planet is already overpopulated. That's why some gold-digging b***h can divorce a guy and get a real estate license with his alimony money . . . because we keep popping out kids and everyone needs a place to live.
by A James Di Rodi 8 years ago
What is the origin of the different races?
by Phil Perez 4 years ago
Consciously, we may or may not want to admit being racist. Unconsciously though, I personally believe that there is no such thing as a race being "equal." Call me racist or whatever, that isn't the point. The point is, that there HAS to be a "best." That's why people have...
by ptosis 24 months ago
“That’s not racist!”, "... I have lots of black friends!", "... you're the racist for making it about race!", "... I'm just being honest about the facts!", "... I was just making a joke!" So why is it so hard for people to admit that USA is a...
by s_little 6 months ago
If youre not racist or prejudice then why would a person prefer to date a certain race?There are so many people out there who date women of a certain race. I dont get it! Everyone is an individual, no certain race looks exactly the same or have the same personalities. So what is it that makes a...
by tigerbaby777 7 years ago
When did the human race become human races? Are we considered different species now or what?Why, when I go to a doctor's office, do they ask me what RACE I am? Is the Human Race now subdivided? Does each ethnic background have its own race? Are we in a race against each other or are we...
by Peeples 7 years ago
Why don't other races in America stand up for their fellow race the way African American do?A white women is targeted and raped and we say "how sad". A hispanic man is robbed and murdered we say "how sad". An indian is killed when his gas station is robbed we say 'how sad....
Copyright © 2019 HubPages Inc. and respective owners. Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners. HubPages® is a registered Service Mark of HubPages, Inc. HubPages and Hubbers (authors) may earn revenue on this page based on affiliate relationships and advertisements with partners including Amazon, Google, and others.
HubPages Inc, a part of Maven Inc.
|HubPages Device ID||This is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.|
|Login||This is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.|
|HubPages Traffic Pixel||This is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.|
|Remarketing Pixels||We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.|
|Conversion Tracking Pixels||We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.|