Are we watching these right-wing nut groups closely enough?

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Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago
(CNN) -- Nine people federal prosecutors say belong to a "Christian warrior" militia were accused Monday of plotting to kill a Michigan law enforcement officer and then attack other police at the funeral.

A federal grand jury in Detroit, Michigan, indicted six Michigan residents, two Ohioans and an Indiana resident on charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, teaching the use of explosive materials and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence, U.S. Attorney Barbara L. McQuade and Andrew Arena, FBI special agent in charge, announced.

The five-count indictment unsealed Monday charges that since August 2008, the defendants, acting as a Lenawee County, Michigan, militia group called the Hutaree, conspired to oppose by force the authority of the U.S. government...
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Doug,
  
  Are we watching Doug Hughes close enough?
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  shazz01109posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are we watching these radical left wing nuts enough? (i.e. Code Pink)
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good point. Code Pink's violent, murderous behavior deserves to be monitored. /s
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  An old man got his finger bitten off for asking questions at a code pink demonstration.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Code Pink is a menace to fingers everywhere. It's in the group's manifesto.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If they want a finger I'd be happy to give them one.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is this like Eric Cantor's office getting shot at?
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mega1posted 14 years ago
Are we watching these right-wing nut groups closely enough?

no, but then probably they WANT us to watch them, closely, and publicly so they get more and more than their share of the media attention.
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wyanjenposted 14 years ago
In this specific instance...

the answer would be yes.

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lovemychrisposted 14 years ago
I hope the gvt. is...we've been through this before, why go through it again?

Here's a news-flash: This country belongs to everybody, and unless you are Native American-what claim do you have on anything really?
We came, We stole, We conquered.
It's no god-given destiny or anything.

Besides, what'd we learn in kindy-garden? Share!
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sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago
There would be no need to have militias if the left would admit their clueless and become conservatives.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do we have to be Mormons too?
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There would be no need for the Taleban either if those uppity Afghan women had just kept their burqas on.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Touche'!
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There IS no need to have militias, especially like the crazies here in Michigan.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know Ralph, I would never support any group that used violence as an option. I hope they're jailed and they take all their toys! I have guns but mine are all hunting and target shooting, I wouldn't own an assault weapon. I just don't see the point.
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i'm with you sneak if we could just go back to the days of killing a squirrel for dinner, and chopping wood for a fire and working 7 days a week with 11 kids. the rich got richer there was no middle class. only very rich and the poor.no insurance you got sick you got sick, no unemployment so after you helped the millionaires get rich you were just stuck out. yeah those were the good old days. the left messed it all up with social security,5 day work weeks , unions,unemployment, overtime and all that crap and more, huh.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago
So you are justifying this group?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No. But they wouldn't feel it was necessary if there was no socialism on the horizon.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Which makes your response "yes".
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Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago
BS, there have been militia groups around for ages.

And this group was going to start by killing a police officer, how is that attacking the government?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  BS? BS? BS? Well does your mother know you talk like that?
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  mega1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  sneaker there you go bring people's mothers into a discussion just becuz someone doesn't agree with you - far more shameful than saying BS or Bullshit! even
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Its all I got. Why do you keep picking on me? I'm a frail delicate and sensitive flower! How can you be so mean?
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sneak is the real ARTFUL DODGER. (very slippery of you SNEAK)
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Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago
There is democracy on the horizon.

President Obama was elected by a wide popular vote and a HUGE electoral vote.

The Members of the US House of Representatives are there by popular election. The members of the US Senate are there by popular election.The passage of Health Care Reform was done my majority vote. If you don't like it, put up you own candidate and get a majority to vote for him (or her).

It's called democracy.

I did not agree with the election of GW Bush by the Supreme court. I despised many of his decisions and policies. I never talked about rebellion against the United States. There is no middle ground on this issue. Either you will abide by the majority vote (not poll) or you are against democracy. You can't just support majority rule as a principle only when you are getting things your way.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Remember that.
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  doug - yes he can . thats the right wing rule.Rule#1 when we rule ,we rule.
  rule #2: when they rule , we rule or we cry,spread fear have tantrums and play victim,cuz we don't like to lose and we are very sore losers!
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It wasn't a left-wing group in Oklahoma City when Clinton was President.
  
  It wasn't a left-wing group in Dallas this month (the IRS attack)
  
  It wasn't a left-wing nut that attacked the Pentagon last month.
  
  It wasn't a left-wing group called the Hutaree.
  
  OWN the violence your side is promoting and STOP IT!. This is a democracy and for all our protests of the abuses of Bush, there is no violence you can document.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There's plenty. The Left is just very good at hiding things under rugs. And under Chicago politics. And in the memory losses of people like Doug.
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  bill yonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  speak it brother! speak it! or better yet right a hub on it!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very well said.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Pandoras Box
  
  Thanks for saving me the trouble of trawling back through all the garbage to find the good stuff - yes it was very well said.
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lovemychrisposted 14 years ago
Exactly!

The sense of entitlement is stunning.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
I think I live in the middle of a militia group. Everyone here is heavily armed and 90% are far right conservatives!
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  can i come stay at your house when the Apocalypse comes?
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  habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, Cosette! My house would be empty! If that happens, I'm going to my brother's. He lives in a big house in the woods and has a walk-in gun safe. Does his own reloading, too. Has a pond full of fish and lots of deer, wild turkeys, and feral pigs running around in the woods, not to mention squirrels, rabbits, and quail! He also has pecan trees and wild blueberry trees. It would take us a while to starve! Oh, and I almost forgot - his wife is a registered nurse!
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habeeposted 14 years ago
Yes, Ron - you must be a Mormon. Can I be one of your wives?? I have some great cupcakes!
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OH yeah! All of my wives must have luscious cupcakes.
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol you guys are crazy
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Peace!
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  Rochelle Frankposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So ??? You got sumthin' against crazy people?
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ha ha ha
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I love you Habee! But I'm way too chicken to take on more than one woman! You're great!
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  habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hahahaha!
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hmmm so just whats goin' on here ha ha
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Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago
I haven't heard from Brenda since the nine members of Hutaree were arrested.. You don't suppose...
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
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  JOE BARNETTposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ha ha ha thats cold!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're just full of sarcastic insinuations, aren't ya, Doug?
  And plenty full 'a' crap!
  
  I heard about the Hutaree group, but not the whole story I'm sure.
  
  Maybe leniency will be given to them like Obama gave leniency to those Black Panthers who stalked the Election poll. Or like he wants to give the terrorists in Guantanamo. Reckon?
  
  Well, I'd say the Hutaree, from what I've heard so far, had a patriotic goal but surely went about it the wrong way.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  And that says it all right there folks... thread closed.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
If so, dey in da wrong place, huh, Rochelle?? lol
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Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago
Could it be the Obama's broken promise of inclusion is leading to a rise in this anger against the government? Remember that's what he ran on. He was going to be different, reach across the isle, be transparent, and change the way Washington works. Well, he broke every single one of those promises with his health care bill and it appears he has no intention of working with Republicans on anything else that he wants to shove down America's throats. Well maybe that explains the anger, the militancy, though I certainly don't endorse it or condone it I would hope that the left at least has as much sympathy for them as they do for the terrorists that would like to kill us.
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So Poppa...Obama told the Republicans this will be there WaterLoo? And Obama voted against every bill the republicans proposed? WHO ARE YOU? YOUR SCRIPT IS TOO TIGHT. IT'S JUST TOO FAR FROM THE TRUTH TO HAVE BEEN WRITTEN WITH ANY REAL CONVICTION. YOU DONT EVEN BELIEVE YOUR OWN STATEMENTS DO YOU? THERE ALL REHARSED PHRASES PUT IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME.
  
  Let's have an original comment from you Pappa.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, whatever you say! I'm just a believer in freedom, personal responsibility, and the truth. I'm for all that is good and natural, for people to be unshackled from pursuing their dreams. I believe the government is an impediment to these ideas, it's a burden, that justifies it's actions to control us by appealing to our generosity and compassion for our fellow beings. Government is FORCE. It seeks to impose it will on the masses for it's own good.
  I believe, the democrats, the left, liberals, progressives, or socialists or whatever they are called these days, are in favor of bigger government, more supervision, a central authority to act as our collective conscience as if they somehow know better than us, right from wrong. They are corrupt, power hungry, and elitist, and evil.
  Prove me wrong!!!
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Prove you wrong...OK!
  
  Enron!!!
  
  We need alot more Government to protect us from crooks that want to rape and rob this country while they wave a Flag and thump a Bible and rob Grandma's retirement money!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! So we can be raped and robbed by government crooks. Great deal.
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lovemychrisposted 14 years ago
Wow poppa--you couldn't be more wrong. imo.
You are going to miss the boat, and all the other repubs too.
The baggers are angry all right, but it's not about what they claim, or there would be signs against Bush there too.
There aren't.

One of these days you will admit what they are frantic about, and hopefully it won't be too late.

This young generation has not grown up as entitled as all of us. They don't have ANY guarentee's at all! Greed and hoarding are not a part of their raison detre.
Whereas the older and current generation seem to be all about me me me, my way my way my way...

That is an OLD ideology, and will not fit in today's world.....unless you are extremely wealthy.
Bushco will be the last admintration to help that wealthy demographic, I think.
Because it has ripped us to shreds.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "or there would be signs against Bush there too."
  
  Have you heard the latest news? Bush is no longer president.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So that absolves him completely? None of these teabaggers were out protesting when he was in office I bet.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure whenever the left can't defend their position they change the subject. Let's talk about Bush now! No wait let's talk about Reagen and how his trickle down economy destroyed the country! Brother can you stay on the subject!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you need a calendar?
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why would there be Bush signs? That doesn't make any sense!
  
  I predict you'll come around to my way of thinking once you've acquired the wisdom of years I have. You'll understand that in America, it's not the role of government to redistribute wealth. Rich people are rich because they earned it, poor people are poor for many reasons, but those that are poor for no fault of their own will always be helped by those of us more fortunate, then there are those that are poor because they've learned to get by with what they can milk from the system, and those people will always be looked upon with disdain.
  
  With freedom comes responsibility. The responsibility to be a productive part of society, to pursue your dreams with vigor never giving up and always reaching higher bringing those along with you that share your vision and distributing your grace with those that are still struggling to reach their goals.
  
  One day, you'll understand the difference between sharing the wealth through free will and the recognition of your blessings and paying the government to do it for you.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Joe already dealt with this poppa. Without regulation, things like 40 hour work weeks, overtime, minimum wage, labor protections, etc. there would be no middle class. It's not wealth redistribution, it's protecting those with no money and power from those with all the money and power.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah and how's that working in Cuba, Venezuela, and China?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The problems in those three countries are not problems of socialism but of authoritarianism. Cuba is doing remarkably well considering the economic sanctions it's had to endure for decades. And how was Venezuela doing before Chavez?
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And where does socialism always lead? It's unsustainable expect through force and oppression. It's never worked in history and yet this is what the left espouses!
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where does unfettered capitalism lead?
  
  A slave is a slave, whether owned by the rich or by the state.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unfettered capitalism leads to prosperity for all, and the more prosperous the more free! Unfettered capitalism is what made this country the great force that it is in the world today. Money = Power!
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it certainly seems to have worked that way in Colombia. (Of course, the opposite, in neighbor Venezuela, is no better)
  
  Capitalism maximizes wealth, but it has the tendency to, over time, concentrate wealth among the rich.
  
  The most prosperous, stable countries in the world have a judicious, ever-changing mix of both capitalism and government intervention. It's not a black-or-white thing.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. Can you cite some historical examples?
  
  Somalia perhaps?
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I did site an example, America! The Chinese model still has to stand the test of time to be proven. Right now is a facade based upon artificial support of their currency.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So the unions had nothing to do with the dramatic rise in middle class living standards after world war 2? Government spending had nothing to do with creating jobs? It was all just unfettered capitalism? LOL.
  
  And let's just gloss over the slavery and genocide of indigenous Americans. This land was just sitting here y'know, waiting to be claimed for the use of the capitalists. No one was murdered to take it!
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Right and who did the Indians take the land from? Please! We had treaties with the Indians we paid them for their land! Look how they're benefiting today from casinos and tax free sales not to mention aid.
  
  You complain about slavery but you fail to see government redistribution of wealth is the same thing, asking the rich to pay for your needs. The slaves had free housing, free food, free clothes and free health care all paid for by the rich and they had guaranteed jobs! That's what the left wants for America too right?
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  An unnamed source has confirmed to CNN that Unfettered capitalism leads to prosperity for all, and the more prosperous the more free! Unfettered capitalism is what made this country the great force that it is in the world today. Money = Power!
  
  Is that good enough or do you need the MSNBC unnamed source?
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lovemychrisposted 14 years ago
Bush is not president, but a lot of people are still stuck in Bush World.....wait a minute, forget Bush, some people still worship Reagan!

Trickle down has failed. Unfettered Capitalism has ruined this country.
White men are not the only ones in power any more.
We have a young, mixed race, Democratici president.
He is not toting the Old Line.
He is not what you are used to.

That has got to make some people mad.

Because, let me clue you in: Bush was not transparent, was not inclusive, did not change the way Washington worked.
Was there a tea-party movement?

No. Why not?
Did he increase the debt?
Did he take away freedoms?
Did he create any jobs?

Where was the Tea Party movement?
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree that Obama isn't what we're used to.
  
  We were used to him being in the Senate doing nothing but get his jollies in the backseat of limousines, the story goes.
  No one was stupid enough to put him in The White House til after that.....
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You can say whatever you want about Bush but you can't site any facts to back you up! Look at the bills Bush pushed through congress, they ALL had bi-partisan support, that's right, your democrats voted FOR Bush Bills including your beloved Obama who voted FOR the Patriot Act!
  
  Oh Yes he's different, he's a socialist just like FDR and he's compared himself to FDR so it's no stretch.
  
  Now look at the bills Obama pushed through not a single republican sided with the democrats and that's no surprise they were shut out from any input right from the beginning!
  
  Really if you're going to make an argument at least provide some evidence to back up your erroneous claims!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Bush is not president, but a lot of people are still stuck in Bush World....."
  
  Some people are stuck in some kind of world alright...
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lovemychrisposted 14 years ago
Well, to be honest, that just makes you pubs look bad.
Gvt is about compromise and not always getting your way. Bush and the pubs were in charge, dems had to respect that.
Because if you think they LIKED everything they went along with, you are wrong.

The difference is, these republicans came into the term determined to undermine Obama...they were not interested in governing, just in destroying Obama. They said so. With plenty of media help along the way....demonizing Obama from the start.

Did Bush increase the debt?..uh yeah. he took a surplus and turned it into a debt. Tax cuts and war were put off-budget...not even paid for!
Did Bush take away freedoms?...Patriot Act.
Did he create any jobs?...NO new jobs were created under Bush....but millions of them went away! Overseas. Cheaper labor/cheaper costs/more profit.

Do you have amnesia or something?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Gvt is about compromise "
  
  Is that why you keep screaming "we're in charge now! I hate you! get out of the way!"?
  
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Padrinoposted 14 years ago
"Because if you think they LIKED everything they went along with, you are wrong."

Proof they are sniveling scumbags! Who would vote for something they didn't agree with?

Stellar example of why they will be run from office!
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Padrinoposted 14 years ago
"It wasn't a left-wing group in Dallas this month (the IRS attack)"

And it wasn't even in Dallas, but hey, why do facts matter?

And no, this is not a Democracy, it is a Representative Republic!
More facts to make the gerbil spin.
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Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago
It's pretty obvious the Fort Hood terrorist was left-wing.
And don't forget about all the protests and violence and burning of Mormon Churches (and sending white powder in envelopes) the gay activists did after Prop. 8 went through in California.

And the Republican Congressmen who've been shot at were of course targeted by left wingers.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Nope.
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  Maddie Ruudposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Wait. How do you figure that? Brenda, you lose credibility with these bizarre sweeping statments.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can't imagine a patriotic right-wing American calling for a Muslim jihad. Can you?
  It's the Leftists like Obama who want to welcome the Muslim anti-Christian agenda into America with open arms.
  
  The Fort Hood shooter's fellow servicemen said he had been saying anti-American things for a while, but everyone was so afraid of being accused as usual of prejudice by the "diversity-loving" Left-wing segment that they wouldn't speak out about him.
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  Maddie Ruudposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, no, but I can imagine him (or her) calling for a Christian crusade. What's the difference?
  
  Besides, just because someone is NOT right-wing does not automatically make him or her left-wing.
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  Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The difference is that the Christians don't think you should die if you're not Christian. They grew out of that.
  
  True
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  Maddie Ruudposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow. That's a sweeping generalization. There are millions of Muslims who believe in peace. And there are plenty of Christians willing to kill to enforce their beliefs. I can rattle off some examples, but I'm sure you can think of plenty yourself.
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  Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But the terrorist at Fort Hood thought so. And that's who we're speaking about.
  
  And no, there are not "plenty of Christians" willing to kill for their beliefs. They may go overboard in discussions but they're not murderous. They just think you're going to hell.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  'Plenty' is a pretty vague figure. In any case, these things are based on local and regional conditions and political environments as much if not more than on any given religious beliefs.
  
  Humans are inherently violent animals.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The difference is that the USA wasn't based on Muslim beliefs.
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  Maddie Ruudposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What about the fundamentalist Christian pro-choicers who've killed doctors who perform abortions? The CSA? The Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda? And don't say that these people aren't "true Christians" because plenty of Muslims also denounce the terrorists who commit violence in the name of Islam as not followers of their true religion as well.
  
  Ooooooooooookay... so how does that mean that Christian fundamentalism is okay, but Muslim fundamentalism is not? I don't agree with either, personally.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If we could just agree that there are violent idiots at every point along the political spectrum and in every large organization and that they are equally unacceptable we wouldn't need threads like this.
  
  But no, everyone wants to believe 'their' side is pure and innocent and the 'other' side is evil and dangerous.
  
  And so it goes on and on...
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  O.o
  
  !!!!!
  
  Sab did you just say something that started to make sense?
  
  Did someone steal your account info and start posting as you?
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  Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What about them? There are crazies in every group. It says specifically in the Quran that if one is not Muslim and does not convert, then he should be killed. The same concept is not put forth in the Bible. I also know personally, many Muslims who are mortified by the extremists who act out in the name of Islam.
  
  I guess I don't understand your point.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. The bible says to kill unbelievers too.
  
  "When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV. 1
  
  "...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV. 1
  
  Islam allows non Muslims to live with autonomy.
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  Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No it doesn't. If you are non-Muslim, or a convert, you are a second-class citizen and pay higher taxes.
  
  Where in the Bible does it say that? I don't know it that well so I would appreciate the cite
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  Maddie Ruudposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh c'mon. There are lots of things in the Bible that moderate Christians no longer take literally, like not eating pork, or not touching your wife when she's menstruating, etc etc. Similarly, there are lots of things in the Qur'an that moderate Muslims do not take literally. One must take into account that these documents were written by humans (perhaps inspired by God, if you believe that), who were subject to their own culture and times.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I still do the "not touching" thing.
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  Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Oh c'mon."?
  
  There are Muslims who take them very seriously, as 9/11, suicide bombers, video-taped beheadings, and the Fort Hood shooting all show. There is a larger population of Muslims who believe and practice these things than there are Christians who follow medieval precepts that would run in a similar vein, such as the Inquisition. It's not all equal.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Years ago I had a student from Iran who went to Greece on a student exchange program and ended up converting to Greek Orthodox. He eventually made his way to the US where he applied for asylum because Greece wouldn't let him stay and if he ever sets foot back in Iran the 'law' there requires that he be beheaded. He wasn't sure what had become of his family there...
  
  ...
  
  I've worked with students who converted to Islam as well. None of them were living under a death sentence from their Christian-majority country of origin.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's Iran, a state, not Islam, the religion.
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  Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is no separation of mosque and state in Iran
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Iran considers them one and the same. That's how a theocracy works.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maddie, as usual you have offered your opinion logically and respectfully.
  
  However....
  
  ...fundamentalist Christian pro-choicers?
  
  Is that like a MENSA tea party?
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  Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You should take lessons from her
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Naaa, it's more fun throwing the mud back at people.
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  Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Pray tell, who was this?
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  woolman60posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  To set the record straight, the republican that you speak of, was not shot at, did you look at the updated police report, here it is.
  
  Updated at 4:02 p.m. ET. A statement from the Richmond, Va., police department says a bullet broke the window of a meeting room in Cantor's office at about 1 a.m. Tuesday. "A preliminary investigation shows that a bullet was fired into the air and struck the window in a downward direction, landing on the floor about a foot from the window," the police statement says. "The round struck with enough force to break the windowpane but did not penetrate the window blinds."
  
  The police statement says there are no suspects.
  
  The bullet was shot into the air at 1 a.m. in the morning, did I miss something, this is how it all starts. misinformation spreads fear, but of course one side blames the other for some idiot discharging his weapon in a public area.
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Madame Xposted 14 years ago
March 22, 2010: Bullet shot through window of Republican Congressman Eric Cantor's Richmond, Virginia campaign Office.

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=12203709
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That couldn't have happened! Only right wing groups can be violent, ask William or Mike, they know!
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL.
  
  Must be a conspiracy.
  
  http://therichmonder.blogspot.com/2010/ … stray.html
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  Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What's funny?
  
  "It is reckless to use these incidents as media vehicles for political gain. That is why I have deep concerns that some, DCCC Chairman Chris Van Hollen and DNC Chairman Tim Kaine in particular are dangerously fanning the flames by suggestion, suggesting that these incidents be used as a political weapon," said Cantor.
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  Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This guy took credit for it!
  
  http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 … th-threat/
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You can't use that! Only unnamed sources are factual.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, this guy:
  
  "The FBI said Mr. Leboon calls himself the "son of the god of Enoch" in the video and calls Cantor "pure evil." "
  
  Yep, it was politics that made him do it. He's not crazy at all.
  
  And how'd that bullet get from Philadelphia to Richmond?
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So only sane right wingers are violent?
  
  This just gets better and better!
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did I say that?
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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I guess not, you just found another way to excuse a violent left winger.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Couldn't help but notice you didn't manage to answer my question to you here, Padrino:
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/38856?p … post922838
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Madame Xposted 14 years ago
yeah . . .

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  Padrinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are probably right, at least right wingers can spell!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bingo. Thanks Madame X.
  Whoever wanted proof that Leftists are just as violent and MORE openly violence-advocating than Right-wingers, there it is. And I'm sure that's not the only picture-proof of this issue.
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  At the end of is 2nd term, Bush was a leper to the GOP.
  
  Whose side is this guy on?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whoever picks up the tab at the "Voyeur Club".
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He sounds pretty outraged. Is this a republican or Right Wing rally?. He has heart!
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Arthur Fontesposted 14 years ago
Of course the SEIU are not violent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWnxlFbY … p;index=60

I bet I did not even see this video.
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Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago
Here's what the right-wing groups are watching at RNC Headquarters, Hollywood.\

http://voyeur7969.com/

http://www.freep.com/mikethompson
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can you blame em?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nope! I may join 'em.
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lovemychrisposted 14 years ago
Poppa-
Do you believe a woman has the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy?
Do you believe two adult human beings should be free to marry if they are gay?
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe 2 consenting adults should do whatever they want. The so called right to choose is problematic for me. I can't give you a simple answer, so I'll ask you a question.
  
  Do you believe that the government should protect all individuals rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?
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lovemychrisposted 14 years ago
My life comes before the fetus, since that possible life cannot come to fruition without my consent.
It's like asking me if I believe a soldier has the right to kill another human being....
That is taking a life is it not?

I think you would have to admit you are not for all freedoms....just the ones you believe in.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well you avoided my question, no surprise there that's typical of the left.
  
  I agree your life should come before that of your unborn child if you had to choose, and I think most people would agree with that.
  
  I'm not against abortion, per se, but surely at some point in time the "fetus" will be something more than a "collection of cells". At some point in time, the fetus will be capable of sustaining itself with no more help than would be required of say, a sick infant. At that point, I believe that "fetus" is an individual that deserves protection of it's rights. You wouldn't be in favor of killing a sick new born would you?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "My life comes before the fetus"
  
  How about a new born baby? (or do you still need to give it a dehumanizing label at that point?)
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There are significant differences between single-cell zygotes, embryos, fetuses, viable fetuses, babies and children which many of the anti-abortion agenda people lose sight of in their rhetoric.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, where exactly without a doubt does life begin?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess that might depend on how you define life. I'm okay with saying that life begins with the zygote. But a zygote is not yet a human being, in my opinion. And aborting a zygote is not the moral equivalent and certainly not the legal equivalent of "murdering a child," as the anti-abortion agenda people apparently believe judging from their picket signs and inflammatory rhetoric.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But that would be ending a life, by your definition?
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Sab Ohposted 14 years ago
Is this thread about abortion, or is someone trying real hard to change the subject?
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Changing the subject is the key tactic of the left in any argument. It's effective at avoiding the truth.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah yes, a sophisticated technique weilded with all the subtlety and finesse of a tourette's outburst.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you the same person having a conversation with yourself? you also appear to be Padrino. I have been trolling around the threads and you all appear to have the same style of writing, I am also beginning to think you are several others also. Of course I could be wrong and there could just possibly be several people just like you.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You need to relax a bit.
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  Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who else would support its arguments! It has to have many aliases to support its opinions.
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lovemychrisposted 14 years ago
"The so called right to choose is problematic for me. I can't give you a simple answer, so I'll ask you a question."

UH...WHO changed the subject?

"I can't give you an answer, so I'll ask you a question".....changing the subject.

I asked you if you believed a woman had the right to choose to end a pregnancy....you changed it around to "what is life".

Doesn't matter...Either it's her choice, or it's the choice of the State...
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is obviously the choice of the state either way.
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, obviously.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And where do laws come from? ........
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If the government passes a law that allows you to carry firearms, does that mean they are forcing you to go carry a firearm?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You mean like when they force you to buy insurance from a private company?
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  William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Debating with you is pointless.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is for you.
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  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh come on you're reaching! I gave you an answer as well as asked a question. In fact I answered all of your questions and all you did was avoid mine.
  
  So you should have the right to choose right up until you go into labor right?
  
  You're in favor of gay marriage too right?
  
  So are you in favor of a father marrying his daughter when she reaches the age of consent, which in some states is 12? And would you also be in favor of the father marrying the daughter of his daughter as his second wife when she reaches the age of consent?
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Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago
Abortion is very much a part of this thread's topic. Right-wing nut groups have advocated, and sometimes carried out murders of doctors who provide abortions.

I understand why you didn't initially realize this. Your first instinct is always to attack and insult, not pose a rational argument.
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lovemychrisposted 14 years ago
Just admit you are against my right to choose.
That means you are not the freedom party you claim to be.

The Christian Right has been gunning to end abortion since 1973.
They got Bush elected on that promise.....
Although if you read "Family Secrets", you will learn that Bush jr got 2 women pregnant and both of them had abortions.
It is also well known that wealthy women never stop having abortions if they need one, it's just the poor girls who end up being at the mercy of the state.
Then, once the baby is born, people like the Christian Right scream and yell that the bastards are not getting any help from them. The mom should have kept her legs shut, right?

Women can't win with you...
So why don't you tell your boys to keep it in their pants for a change?

No offense to the wonderful boys out there, or the wonderful caring Christians...you can tell, this rotten cabal of phakes is making me sick Phakes...Pharisee's yeah, I see it.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Just admit you are against my right to choose. "
  
  Your right to choose whether or not you will kill someone? No, I don't think that should be left entirely up to you.
  
  "The Christian Right has been gunning to end abortion since 1973.
  They got Bush elected on that promise....."
  
  That makes no sense.
  
  "Then, once the baby is born, people like the Christian Right scream and yell that the bastards are not getting any help from them"
  
  Wrong again.
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chasingcarsposted 14 years ago
Hmm! Watch the hate mongering, gun toting, postering apes now called conservatives. That sounds like a good plan. Treason is always a problem for any democracy.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How about the hate mongering, gun toting, postering apes now called liberals? Watch them too, right?
  
  You should do some reading. We've pretty well covered this topic and its related hypocrisy already.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Didn't the previous administration award their own associated company buddies the contracts to build loads of new jails? You could apply the laws and put them all in them maybe?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Anyone who breaks the law should go to jail (or whatever level of punishment fits the crime in question).
  reply report

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