(CNN) -- Nine people federal prosecutors say belong to a "Christian warrior" militia were accused Monday of plotting to kill a Michigan law enforcement officer and then attack other police at the funeral.
A federal grand jury in Detroit, Michigan, indicted six Michigan residents, two Ohioans and an Indiana resident on charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, teaching the use of explosive materials and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence, U.S. Attorney Barbara L. McQuade and Andrew Arena, FBI special agent in charge, announced.
The five-count indictment unsealed Monday charges that since August 2008, the defendants, acting as a Lenawee County, Michigan, militia group called the Hutaree, conspired to oppose by force the authority of the U.S. government...
I hope the gvt. is...we've been through this before, why go through it again?
Here's a news-flash: This country belongs to everybody, and unless you are Native American-what claim do you have on anything really? We came, We stole, We conquered. It's no god-given destiny or anything.
I know Ralph, I would never support any group that used violence as an option. I hope they're jailed and they take all their toys! I have guns but mine are all hunting and target shooting, I wouldn't own an assault weapon. I just don't see the point.
i'm with you sneak if we could just go back to the days of killing a squirrel for dinner, and chopping wood for a fire and working 7 days a week with 11 kids. the rich got richer there was no middle class. only very rich and the poor.no insurance you got sick you got sick, no unemployment so after you helped the millionaires get rich you were just stuck out. yeah those were the good old days. the left messed it all up with social security,5 day work weeks , unions,unemployment, overtime and all that crap and more, huh.
President Obama was elected by a wide popular vote and a HUGE electoral vote.
The Members of the US House of Representatives are there by popular election. The members of the US Senate are there by popular election.The passage of Health Care Reform was done my majority vote. If you don't like it, put up you own candidate and get a majority to vote for him (or her).
It's called democracy.
I did not agree with the election of GW Bush by the Supreme court. I despised many of his decisions and policies. I never talked about rebellion against the United States. There is no middle ground on this issue. Either you will abide by the majority vote (not poll) or you are against democracy. You can't just support majority rule as a principle only when you are getting things your way.
doug - yes he can . thats the right wing rule.Rule#1 when we rule ,we rule. rule #2: when they rule , we rule or we cry,spread fear have tantrums and play victim,cuz we don't like to lose and we are very sore losers!
Sure, Cosette! My house would be empty! If that happens, I'm going to my brother's. He lives in a big house in the woods and has a walk-in gun safe. Does his own reloading, too. Has a pond full of fish and lots of deer, wild turkeys, and feral pigs running around in the woods, not to mention squirrels, rabbits, and quail! He also has pecan trees and wild blueberry trees. It would take us a while to starve! Oh, and I almost forgot - his wife is a registered nurse!
Could it be the Obama's broken promise of inclusion is leading to a rise in this anger against the government? Remember that's what he ran on. He was going to be different, reach across the isle, be transparent, and change the way Washington works. Well, he broke every single one of those promises with his health care bill and it appears he has no intention of working with Republicans on anything else that he wants to shove down America's throats. Well maybe that explains the anger, the militancy, though I certainly don't endorse it or condone it I would hope that the left at least has as much sympathy for them as they do for the terrorists that would like to kill us.
So Poppa...Obama told the Republicans this will be there WaterLoo? And Obama voted against every bill the republicans proposed? WHO ARE YOU? YOUR SCRIPT IS TOO TIGHT. IT'S JUST TOO FAR FROM THE TRUTH TO HAVE BEEN WRITTEN WITH ANY REAL CONVICTION. YOU DONT EVEN BELIEVE YOUR OWN STATEMENTS DO YOU? THERE ALL REHARSED PHRASES PUT IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME.
Sure, whatever you say! I'm just a believer in freedom, personal responsibility, and the truth. I'm for all that is good and natural, for people to be unshackled from pursuing their dreams. I believe the government is an impediment to these ideas, it's a burden, that justifies it's actions to control us by appealing to our generosity and compassion for our fellow beings. Government is FORCE. It seeks to impose it will on the masses for it's own good. I believe, the democrats, the left, liberals, progressives, or socialists or whatever they are called these days, are in favor of bigger government, more supervision, a central authority to act as our collective conscience as if they somehow know better than us, right from wrong. They are corrupt, power hungry, and elitist, and evil. Prove me wrong!!!
Wow poppa--you couldn't be more wrong. imo. You are going to miss the boat, and all the other repubs too. The baggers are angry all right, but it's not about what they claim, or there would be signs against Bush there too. There aren't.
One of these days you will admit what they are frantic about, and hopefully it won't be too late.
This young generation has not grown up as entitled as all of us. They don't have ANY guarentee's at all! Greed and hoarding are not a part of their raison detre. Whereas the older and current generation seem to be all about me me me, my way my way my way...
That is an OLD ideology, and will not fit in today's world.....unless you are extremely wealthy. Bushco will be the last admintration to help that wealthy demographic, I think. Because it has ripped us to shreds.
Sure whenever the left can't defend their position they change the subject. Let's talk about Bush now! No wait let's talk about Reagen and how his trickle down economy destroyed the country! Brother can you stay on the subject!
Why would there be Bush signs? That doesn't make any sense!
I predict you'll come around to my way of thinking once you've acquired the wisdom of years I have. You'll understand that in America, it's not the role of government to redistribute wealth. Rich people are rich because they earned it, poor people are poor for many reasons, but those that are poor for no fault of their own will always be helped by those of us more fortunate, then there are those that are poor because they've learned to get by with what they can milk from the system, and those people will always be looked upon with disdain.
With freedom comes responsibility. The responsibility to be a productive part of society, to pursue your dreams with vigor never giving up and always reaching higher bringing those along with you that share your vision and distributing your grace with those that are still struggling to reach their goals.
One day, you'll understand the difference between sharing the wealth through free will and the recognition of your blessings and paying the government to do it for you.
Joe already dealt with this poppa. Without regulation, things like 40 hour work weeks, overtime, minimum wage, labor protections, etc. there would be no middle class. It's not wealth redistribution, it's protecting those with no money and power from those with all the money and power.
The problems in those three countries are not problems of socialism but of authoritarianism. Cuba is doing remarkably well considering the economic sanctions it's had to endure for decades. And how was Venezuela doing before Chavez?
So the unions had nothing to do with the dramatic rise in middle class living standards after world war 2? Government spending had nothing to do with creating jobs? It was all just unfettered capitalism? LOL.
And let's just gloss over the slavery and genocide of indigenous Americans. This land was just sitting here y'know, waiting to be claimed for the use of the capitalists. No one was murdered to take it!
LOL! Right and who did the Indians take the land from? Please! We had treaties with the Indians we paid them for their land! Look how they're benefiting today from casinos and tax free sales not to mention aid.
You complain about slavery but you fail to see government redistribution of wealth is the same thing, asking the rich to pay for your needs. The slaves had free housing, free food, free clothes and free health care all paid for by the rich and they had guaranteed jobs! That's what the left wants for America too right?
An unnamed source has confirmed to CNN that Unfettered capitalism leads to prosperity for all, and the more prosperous the more free! Unfettered capitalism is what made this country the great force that it is in the world today. Money = Power!
Is that good enough or do you need the MSNBC unnamed source?
Bush is not president, but a lot of people are still stuck in Bush World.....wait a minute, forget Bush, some people still worship Reagan!
Trickle down has failed. Unfettered Capitalism has ruined this country. White men are not the only ones in power any more. We have a young, mixed race, Democratici president. He is not toting the Old Line. He is not what you are used to.
That has got to make some people mad.
Because, let me clue you in: Bush was not transparent, was not inclusive, did not change the way Washington worked. Was there a tea-party movement?
No. Why not? Did he increase the debt? Did he take away freedoms? Did he create any jobs?
You can say whatever you want about Bush but you can't site any facts to back you up! Look at the bills Bush pushed through congress, they ALL had bi-partisan support, that's right, your democrats voted FOR Bush Bills including your beloved Obama who voted FOR the Patriot Act!
Oh Yes he's different, he's a socialist just like FDR and he's compared himself to FDR so it's no stretch.
Now look at the bills Obama pushed through not a single republican sided with the democrats and that's no surprise they were shut out from any input right from the beginning!
Really if you're going to make an argument at least provide some evidence to back up your erroneous claims!
Well, to be honest, that just makes you pubs look bad. Gvt is about compromise and not always getting your way. Bush and the pubs were in charge, dems had to respect that. Because if you think they LIKED everything they went along with, you are wrong.
The difference is, these republicans came into the term determined to undermine Obama...they were not interested in governing, just in destroying Obama. They said so. With plenty of media help along the way....demonizing Obama from the start.
Did Bush increase the debt?..uh yeah. he took a surplus and turned it into a debt. Tax cuts and war were put off-budget...not even paid for! Did Bush take away freedoms?...Patriot Act. Did he create any jobs?...NO new jobs were created under Bush....but millions of them went away! Overseas. Cheaper labor/cheaper costs/more profit.
It's pretty obvious the Fort Hood terrorist was left-wing. And don't forget about all the protests and violence and burning of Mormon Churches (and sending white powder in envelopes) the gay activists did after Prop. 8 went through in California.
And the Republican Congressmen who've been shot at were of course targeted by left wingers.
I can't imagine a patriotic right-wing American calling for a Muslim jihad. Can you? It's the Leftists like Obama who want to welcome the Muslim anti-Christian agenda into America with open arms.
The Fort Hood shooter's fellow servicemen said he had been saying anti-American things for a while, but everyone was so afraid of being accused as usual of prejudice by the "diversity-loving" Left-wing segment that they wouldn't speak out about him.
Wow. That's a sweeping generalization. There are millions of Muslims who believe in peace. And there are plenty of Christians willing to kill to enforce their beliefs. I can rattle off some examples, but I'm sure you can think of plenty yourself.
What about the fundamentalist Christian pro-choicers who've killed doctors who perform abortions? The CSA? The Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda? And don't say that these people aren't "true Christians" because plenty of Muslims also denounce the terrorists who commit violence in the name of Islam as not followers of their true religion as well.
Ooooooooooookay... so how does that mean that Christian fundamentalism is okay, but Muslim fundamentalism is not? I don't agree with either, personally.
If we could just agree that there are violent idiots at every point along the political spectrum and in every large organization and that they are equally unacceptable we wouldn't need threads like this.
But no, everyone wants to believe 'their' side is pure and innocent and the 'other' side is evil and dangerous.
What about them? There are crazies in every group. It says specifically in the Quran that if one is not Muslim and does not convert, then he should be killed. The same concept is not put forth in the Bible. I also know personally, many Muslims who are mortified by the extremists who act out in the name of Islam.
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV. 1
"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV. 1
Oh c'mon. There are lots of things in the Bible that moderate Christians no longer take literally, like not eating pork, or not touching your wife when she's menstruating, etc etc. Similarly, there are lots of things in the Qur'an that moderate Muslims do not take literally. One must take into account that these documents were written by humans (perhaps inspired by God, if you believe that), who were subject to their own culture and times.
There are Muslims who take them very seriously, as 9/11, suicide bombers, video-taped beheadings, and the Fort Hood shooting all show. There is a larger population of Muslims who believe and practice these things than there are Christians who follow medieval precepts that would run in a similar vein, such as the Inquisition. It's not all equal.
Years ago I had a student from Iran who went to Greece on a student exchange program and ended up converting to Greek Orthodox. He eventually made his way to the US where he applied for asylum because Greece wouldn't let him stay and if he ever sets foot back in Iran the 'law' there requires that he be beheaded. He wasn't sure what had become of his family there...
I've worked with students who converted to Islam as well. None of them were living under a death sentence from their Christian-majority country of origin.
To set the record straight, the republican that you speak of, was not shot at, did you look at the updated police report, here it is.
Updated at 4:02 p.m. ET. A statement from the Richmond, Va., police department says a bullet broke the window of a meeting room in Cantor's office at about 1 a.m. Tuesday. "A preliminary investigation shows that a bullet was fired into the air and struck the window in a downward direction, landing on the floor about a foot from the window," the police statement says. "The round struck with enough force to break the windowpane but did not penetrate the window blinds."
The police statement says there are no suspects.
The bullet was shot into the air at 1 a.m. in the morning, did I miss something, this is how it all starts. misinformation spreads fear, but of course one side blames the other for some idiot discharging his weapon in a public area.
"It is reckless to use these incidents as media vehicles for political gain. That is why I have deep concerns that some, DCCC Chairman Chris Van Hollen and DNC Chairman Tim Kaine in particular are dangerously fanning the flames by suggestion, suggesting that these incidents be used as a political weapon," said Cantor.
Bingo. Thanks Madame X. Whoever wanted proof that Leftists are just as violent and MORE openly violence-advocating than Right-wingers, there it is. And I'm sure that's not the only picture-proof of this issue.
My life comes before the fetus, since that possible life cannot come to fruition without my consent. It's like asking me if I believe a soldier has the right to kill another human being.... That is taking a life is it not?
I think you would have to admit you are not for all freedoms....just the ones you believe in.
Well you avoided my question, no surprise there that's typical of the left.
I agree your life should come before that of your unborn child if you had to choose, and I think most people would agree with that.
I'm not against abortion, per se, but surely at some point in time the "fetus" will be something more than a "collection of cells". At some point in time, the fetus will be capable of sustaining itself with no more help than would be required of say, a sick infant. At that point, I believe that "fetus" is an individual that deserves protection of it's rights. You wouldn't be in favor of killing a sick new born would you?
I guess that might depend on how you define life. I'm okay with saying that life begins with the zygote. But a zygote is not yet a human being, in my opinion. And aborting a zygote is not the moral equivalent and certainly not the legal equivalent of "murdering a child," as the anti-abortion agenda people apparently believe judging from their picket signs and inflammatory rhetoric.
Are you the same person having a conversation with yourself? you also appear to be Padrino. I have been trolling around the threads and you all appear to have the same style of writing, I am also beginning to think you are several others also. Of course I could be wrong and there could just possibly be several people just like you.
Oh come on you're reaching! I gave you an answer as well as asked a question. In fact I answered all of your questions and all you did was avoid mine.
So you should have the right to choose right up until you go into labor right?
You're in favor of gay marriage too right?
So are you in favor of a father marrying his daughter when she reaches the age of consent, which in some states is 12? And would you also be in favor of the father marrying the daughter of his daughter as his second wife when she reaches the age of consent?
Just admit you are against my right to choose. That means you are not the freedom party you claim to be.
The Christian Right has been gunning to end abortion since 1973. They got Bush elected on that promise..... Although if you read "Family Secrets", you will learn that Bush jr got 2 women pregnant and both of them had abortions. It is also well known that wealthy women never stop having abortions if they need one, it's just the poor girls who end up being at the mercy of the state. Then, once the baby is born, people like the Christian Right scream and yell that the bastards are not getting any help from them. The mom should have kept her legs shut, right?
Women can't win with you... So why don't you tell your boys to keep it in their pants for a change?
No offense to the wonderful boys out there, or the wonderful caring Christians...you can tell, this rotten cabal of phakes is making me sick Phakes...Pharisee's yeah, I see it.
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