I was just reading another hub about Pedophile punishment. So out of curiosity, would you vote to have pedophiles castrated or do you think the punishment is too severe?
If neither, what would you do?
It doesn't stop them from performing acts on children they use other things which causes even more damage to the child so castration would not work but a more severe punishment should be enforced.
I believe in rehabilitation for them. Why waste the money on putting them in jail when you can change the behavior?
Everything I've read points to rehab not working in this case.
Almost any behavior can be changed with enough time and effort.
Here's something that I found though it doesn't deal with the behavior approach: http://www.medicineuptotheminute.com/pedophilia.htm
I read that. It does offer some hope for a medical solution, thank you for the info.
The first part of rehabilitation is having a conscience to know that what you are doing is wrong and then being remorseful. Pedophiles are well-known for having no remorse. They even project the problem onto the child "Well she was acting seductively"
The chemical castration does sound a little promising but these were also men who knew they were being watched, so I don't know how meaningful it was. When they do a double blind test there may be more answers or even a different answer altogether.
at the very least they should be castated for starters
The problem with castration is pedophilia is in the mind, not the behind. The object that is castrated is merely a tool used by a warped mind. Thus, the predator sans the penis will use any other tool available to abuse the child.
A just 18 yr old boy had consentual sex with his 16 yr old G/f. He was arrested and found guilty of "statutory rape"...did time and has been BRANDED for life as a "pedophile."
When you use the "broad" term "pedophile," don't you think you could have given a little more thought to that question?
Do you think this young man should be castrated?
Some of the "responses" I've read are just as "short sighted" as was your question.
Shouldn't the punishment fit the crime?
In the case of non-consentual children, any molestation, rape, death, should be dealt with with extremity!
Death, castration, lockup for life? absolutely!
i honestly agree with beth when she said that we needed more research on this condition. however, i will say this. it amazes me on the level of double standard logic society lives in. for one we condemn pedophiles, yet a film like "An Education" where it blantly shows a 16 yr old girl having an affair with a 30 yr old man. shouldn't there have been a controversy over that? then you look at woody allen who married his adopted asian daughter, why isn't he labeled a pedophile? don't get me wrong, I loved the movie, "An Education", and thought it was a entertaining film, but the fact that NOBODY complained about it's plot shows an OBVIOUS double standard in society about their views with pedolophilia. after all, there was another film called "happiness" where it had a character that liked little boys, and that film highly controversial for obvious reasons. therefore, shouldn't "An Education" have been just as controversial? afterall, the only real difference is that one pedophile likes young girls while the other likes boys, but they're equally sick and twisted. therefore, i think the real issue here is I think most people don't like gay pedophiles where as if the pedophile guy lusted after little girls, society seems to turn a blind eye to it. or if a grown woman seduced a little boy, you all seem to accept it. ever heard of van halen's video, "hot for teacher"? i rest my case.
I don't really think everyone accepts it. All the "hot for teacher" cases I've heard of, teacher is doing a little stint in jail.
And I don't see anyone saying gay pedophiles are the only twisted ones. Child molesters in general.
Who's the you all you're referring to? I see no posts on this thread that point that way.
oh sorry, i was speaking in generalities about society as a whole, and not referring to ANYONE specifically. i was just saying that because i know "An Education" had a grown man who had an affair with an under age girl in that film, but nobody really complained about it. yet when a film like "happiness" came out, it had a character who was also a pedophile, but he liked little boys. i was asking how come THAT film is deem controversial when a film like "an education" isn't? don't get me wrong, I like both films just equally as they're good stories. however, i don't agree with pedophilia at all, nor do i condone it in any form. i was just trying to point out a double standard that's all.
I think because the world is becoming desensitized. Teenage girls are flaunted everywhere.
I've never seen either of those movies so I don't know. But as a show of being desensitized or maybe of not wanting to knowing; the movie Powder was written by a child molester and apparently had a number of innuendos. I only learned this recently. When I watched the show a few years ago, I thought a few things odd but never questioned it and didn't even realise what I thought was odd.
yeah, i agree with you there. i see the clothes that a lot of teenagers wear these days and there so revealing that it's no wonder why society is being as desensitized to where it is today? i mean my god, miley cyrus isn't even legal yet, but you already have almost half naked pics of her all over the internet. i mean it's ridiculous.
sometimes I think that is done on purpose and the way some television is presented.. and it may show how some men equate in their mind a bra or a particular peice of female clothing with sex. Then you see a child dressed in similar clothing and you have a confusion. It is not good for children to dress as adults. And it is useful for men to understand their sexuality more.
i agree with you there. you'll noticed there weren't that many pedophiles before the media did that. that or they were just better at hiding it back then.
I have a selution to peophiles. IF they are convicted by a jury of thier peers, and have phorensic evidence against them, We take them to an old delapidaded barn, use a spikke nail to confine them to a tree stump, set the hay and barn on fire ans give them a butcher knife. there choice, burn or cut it off. Do that, televise it and after five to six times, that shit would cease! Give me a plan with a higher rate of effect and I will k
listen. Till then the barn for them.
lol. maybe in certain countries that might be ideal. however, i doubt seriously it would work in the states, as too many people would probably argue saying they have rights and stuff like that. lol. it's the same reason why you won't ever see a person get their arms cut off for stealing like they do in certain countries, as they're deemed inhumane by the media and most people. lol. therefore, i doubt seriously you'll get a lot of support for your idea in the states pal. however it is one i think that will scare pedophiles though to change their ways. lol.
You damn well know it would scare them! It should. AHY COUNTRY thta puts political correctness ahead of what is needed and RIGHT, They and thier children deserve what they HAVE advocated. Sorry I feel strongly about this.
oh no problems. i feel exactly the same way as you do. in fact, i was only saying that because you and i both know society would never allow such an extreme method to be used. heck, just look at some of the terrorists we capture, we give them equal rights and trial like a normal american citizen, even though they're not. therefore, i doubt seriously society will ever go with your method. not that i disagree with you because i think that would work if we did things your way, just as much as cutting off a person's arm for stealing would have the same effect on thieves and shoplifters. however, in a society of political correctness in the states, i doubt we'll ever see such practice used. however, i do think you make some valid points though.
Let me pose a question. If our society has degraded to the point of putting political correctness ABOVE the welfare of our children, and big bussiness can put money interests in the forefront of employee safety, are we not a retched culture?
i think ANY society that puts political correctness over the safety of anyone and everyone, especially children, is a society that in my mind is flawed beyond reason. like i said, i don't disagree with you. i just think it's sad that our society is too political for our own good.
outside of this countries government falling apart and being rebuilt as the usa is overdue to have a new system of government as even older countries like england have had to go through various changes in the way their government operates over the years. in fact, the usa has had the longest form of government in world history, so we're long over due to have it torn apart and being rebuilt. outside of that, i have no idea. all i can say is things won't change unless extreme measures are taken. the only way i can see the usa changing is unless either a) the government gets rebuilt or b) we get taken over by another country. that's the only way i can see it changing anytime soon.
Although the possible outcomes may not be real pleasant, I see a different route for the USA. Look to history, Especially Rome. Rome had the same type of government as we do. They got greedy special interests, and by the time they realized what was happening to thier empire, it was to late. Now, we do not have an empire, but the form of goverment we share. A lack of insight, and the overwhelming influence of special interests, JUST LIKE ROME, will be our downfall. Sad but true!
actually i was trying to say the same thing you just said. i guess i didn't make myself clear. sorry. lol. however, you are right. we are like rome in a lot of ways. then again it doesn't matter what form of government you have, there's always going to be flaws that build up over time. heck, the only ideal government i know of is in star trek, but that's a fictional universe.
My main problem with the way i see things is , because of our societies advances in tech. and HOPEFULLY in the moral venue we as a people have a much higher level of achievement which we are capable of. I know I'm an idealist. That does change the fact that having reached a level of knowledge, our responsibility grows. Yet it is met with greed and selfr-rightousness.
i guess thats why a wise man once said, "he who increases knowledge...increases sorrow."
Welcome to American capitalism, and a culture that puts money before people. Welcome to America!
Its hard to get controversial over a 16 year old girl and a 30 year old man. especially if you are a woman. i remember being 16 and i was very mature and grown up for my age. i did have a couple of older boyfriends (25-30) and i was not horribly damaged by it. of course, its not ideal, but in the past it was quite normal for older men to take young, young wives. not that its right, but it just doesn't seem to bother as many people. i sincerely think that that situation is not twisted and sick. maybe not intelligent, but not sick. i don't know, what do you all think?
i would kill, with my bare hands, someone who violated my children.
If you mean literally castrated.
I once saw a guy on ...Oprah, or Montel..don't remember which...but he was an imprisoned pedophile who willingly took certain meds that, in effect, castrated him, took away his sexual desires.
If we were gonna literally castrate a man, even a pedophile, we might as well literally castrate all perverts like pornographers, etc., because of their influence on children. That's not an option, in my opinion.
If they're never able to go back into society reformed, they should remain imprisoned.
Are you becoming a softy right before our eyes Brenda??
When was I ever NOT a softy?
I've never said people should be literally castrated or killed for even perverted acts. I've said they should be imprisoned, yes, and I've said that homosexuals have no business trying to make their perversion sanctioned by American law, and that it's an abomination.
If a pedophile becomes a killer, of course they should be subject to stricter punishment, even the death penalty.
Like I said, I think maybe the "castration" by drugs is a viable option for unreformed pedophiles. But in prison. I'm not so sure about putting them back into society unless they're totally reformed, because even if a man didn't have physical desire anymore, he could still seduce and rape a child....
Or a woman could too.
There are women pedophiles too.
I am shocked by your ultra-liberal view on this subject
Conservatives are supposed to hard on crime/ "throw the book at them" people...
Ummm....you mean advocating physical castration?
That's not throwing the book at 'em; that's throwing the axe at 'em.
I draw the line at the axe. Unless, as I said, it's a rape/murder or hugely heinous crime and even imprisonment doesn't do just punishment.
I've heard many people's opinion that pedophiles cannot be rehabilitated. If that's true, then they should be kept imprisoned.
..I've also heard of many pedophiles who were never punished. That's a sad thing for the victims.
And whoever said 12+ should be consentual age ....I disagree.
At 12, a child is still a child, no matter what their hormones tempt them toward. A grown man/woman should NEVER say it's okay to seduce/rape a 12-year-old or even a 15-year-old and maybe even older and claim it's okay 'cause the child agreed.
I do advocate literal castration. If I believed that removing sexual stimulation was the answer then I would advocate that but it is a mental disorder in which case I believe that even if they didn't feel an 'erection' they would still act the on what their mind is tempting them towards.
Heck, I don't even know if I believe that physical castration would stop them because a penis isn't always the instrument in which the crime is carried out.
At least then they would be prevented from passing on their seed and then the children being forced by your standards to keep the baby, but that is another subject.
I think you've mistaken my words?
I don't advocate any person having to keep a child conceived by rape. That's why womb scraping for rape victims is an option, the way I see it. Or, if the young girl is scared and waits til it's too late to stop conception or the possibility of conception, then the child could be given up for adoption....
Womb scraping is the same as abortion. Something to consider. But let's not go any further with this subject on this forum because we are talking about something else, but at least it is good to know that you wouldn't force a child of rape to keep the baby and would allow some options in the matter.
At the moment in Ireland we have had a series of reports published on children who were abused (sexually and physically) by religious orders when in their care and also shocking revelations of the Catholic church thoughout the country who consistently moved pedophile priests from one parish to the next to cover their tracks and facilitated them offending and devestaing the lives of many children from a - z. The church is in a very sad place right now in this country and bishops are resigning all over. What is the answer to pedophiles? I'm not sure but I believe castration should happen as a matter of course and they should be locked up for a very long time. Our children of this world are damaged for life at the hands of such dreadful animals, they do not belong in society, I don't believe there is any place for them at all. However, there should be a very strong deterent to make them think before they act, castration might help in this case. Ireland is not the only country blighted by this problem. Now that we have opened up the can of worms, all of Europe and the churches who harboured pedo priests are being investigated with the same results. The church seems to have been a great place for these people to operate and get open access to so many young children. I truly believe there is no place in society for these people and that they cannot be rehabilitated!
Pedophilia...the love of a child.
In many cultures, when a child reaches the age of menses, she has been promised to an older man who will protect her, bed her and raise sons and daughters.
There are primitive tribes in S America which allow their children to copulate when they desire. Pedophilia is cultural.
We are "animals!" Our goal is to reproduce. It is natural in all animal species that the strong survive. When the female is able to reproduce the male complies. There are many reasons why we "conscious" animals try our best to control our bestial desires for sexual contact. Mores, morality, religion, ignorance, all can be found responsible for our attitude concerning sexuality. The natural way is based upon natural selection. Many animals come into "heat." We human animals are members of the primate groups which copulate according to "desire." Antecessor had it 100% correct when he said the young and vivacious attract the verile male! it is natural and was necessary for survival as man was evolving. Man had no fangs and claws. It was an easy prey. It had to reproduce it's kind quickly and efficiently...yet the human child is the most defenseless infant amongst all animals. The human mind, social activity and wile is why we are here.
There was no such thing as "pedophilia" then. If a child could reproduce it had to.
Not sure if anyone has pointed this out to you yet, but humanity has evolved past that point. Well most of us have.
In some cultures they still believe child sacrifice will appease the gods and bring them wealth. We don't live in these cultures. We also don't live in a culture where it is acceptable to sleep with a child just because she has reached puberty. Why? Maybe we know better. Maybe we have even even evolved societally. Maybe we have the medical technology, psychological knowledge, biological knowledge, etc. to know when physical and mental maturity does or does not happen.
You also seem to be under the impression that this is only a male/female issue. You do realise boys of this age are molested as well don't you? Mating purposes? Perpetuation of the species?
Oh I know the boys secretly wanted a powerful older male, but they were ashamed to tell their friends and family. Or is that just a girl thing?
Older males are in a position of authority over the young. That's how we train our young. This is not normal reproduction of two equals. One has matured. One has not. Children are trained their entire lives to listen to this authority. That puts them in a vulnerable position when dealing with adults who may not have their best interest at heart.
Outside appearances do not protray what is happening inside the mind or body. You can't look at a girl and know how whether her decision making processes have reached a level where she is making a decision that will actually be for her own good.
If a girls mind is not mature enough to make a decision then she should be protected by her parents and society from those who would take advantage of her.
Sexually abused children are often seductive with adults. Does this mean they are ready for sex? No it means someone has messed them up.
As for a girl being given away by her parents to an older a man. Think that through. Where was her decision in that that she wanted to have sex with that man? She had no choice. One power figure tossed her over to another like an object. "Here take this off my hands and feed it and then you can have sex with her."
The proof whether something is right or wrong is whether it causes harm or does good. When little girls bodies are being shredded to pieces, obviously it's wrong.
After the first menarche it takes on average 3 years for a girls body to mature, often longer. Until that maturity happens her body is not truly ready to reproduce, hence the number of stillborns in the population of pregnant teens.
Yes many animals are immediately ready to reproduce at their first heat. They are also usually dead within or just after a decade of life. They don't have the long human reproductive cycle or parenting cycle, so their species can't afford to wait. Humans evolve through puberty slowly. A boy does not become a man at his first pubic hair. Puberty is the beginning of maturity, not maturity itself.
When you state what ancient man or his predecessor did, thought, believed etc. perhaps you would do well to begin with "I believe primitive man..." Unless of course you have in hand a few scholarly papers written by their top historians and scientists. One man's faith is as meaningless to me as the next.
In one breath you mock the primitive lives and beliefs of the bible, and in the next you are one of the proponents of the rightness of those primitive beliefs. I don't get it.
Any way, back to Harry Potter and collecting shiny things for the cave.
"Not sure if anyone has pointed this out to you yet, but humanity has evolved past that point. Well most of us have."
That statement is ludicrous!
Why do you think man has created laws to control the natural proclivities of we human animals?
If "...humanity has evolved past that point." there would be no necessity for the consideration and passage of laws controlling man's "natural" sexual propensities.
The evolved genetic programming for procreation in man is as dynamically active as it has ever been.
The anomaly "consciousness" has engendered the Freudian "super ego" facet of our thinking which controls the man animals natural desire to copulate with the most attractive, vibrant, vivacious, young, healthy females.
As a student of life and anthropology, I know that man is an animal which is innately programmed to "survive."
It has survived because of the successful use of the most powerful weapon nature has ever created in any life form on this planet i.e....the brain!
Every culture ever created by man has consciously developed it's own mores, and moralities. it's own definition of "right and wrong." If one chooses to live in a specific nation then one must abide by the "laws-of-the-land" or pay the consequences.
We choose to live in the USA and be ruled by it's laws. Our "rights and wrongs" may differ from other nations/cultures.
That's the way of the world.
My attitude is this: the perpetrator of heinous sexual crimes against pubescent children, is insane and should be permanently eliminated!
But "pedophilia" consists of differing levels of legality.
The punishment should fit the crime.
In light of that quark, what penalty (if any) do you think should be given to a 30 year old having sex with a 13 year old?
I live in the USA by choice.
I abide by the laws of my nation.
There are many facets of understanding I'd have to be privy to to make that decision.
My personal feelings and interests are of import only to me.
Legally? I abide by the law of the land.
Fair enough, and I don't want to pressure you for sharing any personal beliefs you don't want to, but you did mention that "My attitude is this: the perpetrator of heinous sexual crimes against pubescent children, is insane and should be permanently eliminated!"
I was just wondering if sex between a 12/13 year old pubescent child and a 30 year old man would, in your opinion, classify as a "heinous sexual crime".
I know if my own personal books there would never be any justification for that... Again, I don't want to want to pressure and reply
a pedophile is worthless to society in general... never wil they ever be helpful to us ,,,,,,,,,,, so...........put em all on a big island together , pour some gasoline all around it and light a freaking match ............ better yet , let me light it
I know little about castration, but believe it's aim is sexual desire decrease.
I do know that pedophilia is about power, so my thinking is that it really wouldn't make much of a difference. I think this is more a brain chemistry thing than a hormonal thing.
I don't think castration would be too severe, just pointless.
The evidence seems to be that castration does not stop recidivist sex offenders. This may be because sex crimes are about power rather than sex. (Although obviously sex is involved). So as there is no guaranteed cure and punishment doesn't work might I suggest burning?
What about solitary confinement?
Depends on what level of severity you are talking, should we castrate people for possessing offensive images? No. Because evidence has shown that many can be successfully rehabilitated with ongoing treatment and supervision. Should we castrate those who physically abuse children? Yes, we should also brand them on the forehead and move them - after a long long prison sentence - to a purpose built community with no children present. In other words, an outdoor jail. I can distinguish very much between 'potential' abusers and 'actual' abusers.... although of course, they all start off as the former.
Well I am not really talking about sickos who masturbate to child porn though in my mind it is really the same thing but the ones who have actually physically or have tried to abuse children and worse, murder them and do unspeakable things to them.
I would cut off all their parts and their hands and toss them into the woods to be abused by wild animals but that really is cruel and unusual.
It's that or I would let each and every parent of an abused child and the abused survivors themselves beat them within an inch of their lives, let them heal slowly and let them do it again and again until they don't feel angry anymore.
It probably would be best exile them to a place where they cannot hurt anyone.
I dunno though...
Oh, you're talking about child sexual abuse, I thought you were just talking about pedophilia in general. I agree with you only I think it would be more practical to just have the death sentence for those who have no control over their horrible actions.
Pedophiles are gay criminals in the making, twisted minds following a rejection at some point. However, killing does not help much, what needs to be done is exclusion, confinement maybe in a rehab where they can be given an education and have a reflection on what true life is all about.
I can tell you that the laws are not strict enough now! My daughter was molested by a man in his thirties - she was 11, I think. He got six months in the local jail, and it was his SECOND offense!! That's little more than a slap on the wrist, in my opinion!
I agree. The laws are not strict enough. I was sexually abused when I was 14 and the man who abused me never got any jail time. All they did was put him on a sex offender list. I've seen him walking around town at least a dozen times since then. He is part of the reason why I felt it was necessary for me to move here.
My cousins were also sexually abused by their father and their step mother. Their father is in jail, but their step mother didn't get any sort of punishment because she talked. Since then, she has been caught taking photos of my cousins at the public swimming pool. Still, no punishment has been handed out to her.
Yeap they should have them chopped off. I don't think that is a severe punishment at all. Someone becoming disturbed, developing irrational fear, and spending thousands of dollars on therapy, because they were a victim of sexual abuse, that is severe.
I have trouble being fair and rational when it comes to this particular offense... so I'll just state that I have extremely strong negative feelings towards child molesters and I must dis-qualify myslef from any judgements on them because of those very strong feelings.
I believe that medical castration can be part of the solution. The other answer is to keep them out of the general public where they have access to children. Even with the 'goods' gone, they can still act on mental responses to what they see. Once a pedophile, always a pedophile.
"Well I am not really talking about sickos who masturbate to child porn though in my mind it is really the same thing but the ones who have actually physically or have tried to abuse children and worse, murder them and do unspeakable things to them."
even the sickos on the computer are vile and I believe their actions have an effect subconsciously on their victims. it's not just the act itself, but the intent that is harmful.
something more needs to be done and I'm real tired of hearing that every sexual misdeed, whether cheating on your spouse or some guy who can't keep his hands off little girls is an addiction or a disorder. those who murder their victims should not see the light of day.
Heck, I'm all for castration! But even though it may help, it won't eliminate the problem altogether. I agree, the punishment for those convicted of this horrible crime needs to be harder. All they get is a slap on the wrist.
I was emotionally damaged for life by a pedophile and he went on to molest over and over again. My family prosecuted him but he was only ordered to see a psychiatrist. That's it. So he went on to continue to molest his daughters, then his granddaughters. No telling who else fell victim to his actions. He's dead now.
If one steals ... should he have his thumb cut off?
You're comparing theft to child molesting and rape? Seriously?
I think what S Leretseh is saying to you jeanMeriam is that in some parts of the world a thief either has his hand or part of his hand cut off for theft. Following this logic then someone who engages with an unwilling or under-aged other should then have his genitalia cut off.
They have to be removed from sociaty, forever.
I would just call your local law enforcement I am sure they would be glad to give you a free site. Many states have databases of listed pedophiles for the public to access just to keep us safe.
there are also socio political mind control aspects to some pedophilia, ... the noise I heard during the week of the Australian open was very distressing and disturbing. It took me time to find where I thought it was from, yet couldnt quite pin point it..
pedophilia can be used to create a sense of excitement that can be used for the collective unconscious for playing with the minds of the masses.
It would be worth looking at what makes someone offend, is it a mistake, a perversion or related to other more sinister things?
I am quite psychic and do get some bizarre stuff psychically. I do sent the message back about how to go to someone, to call out, to find an adult you trust to tell etc and if they dont believe you keep telling someone.
Someone stopped me the other day and said that they had been given a diagnosis and that there was some pedophile ring that had abused them, .... I cannot discount what they said.. and I wish them well and hope they talk more and publically, the more
people talk, the less power they have.
Children and teenagers now have access to the internet, mobile phones, listening devices and you can get video cameras that small that you can fit them on a button - and these are within the range of anyones budget.
Educate your children, not with fear, but how to keep themselves out of situations where they may be at risk.
There are some great web based resources for this too, from training children not to appear vunerable and how to change their behavior so they dont look like a target,
I wish for the protection of vunerable lives and the ability of those who can to change their behavior and learn to question thoughts that may tell them to do something that will not help anyone.
For men who may be vunerable to this, learning to question these thoughts and answer them with no, thats not behavior that I want to take on... is a good stepping stone. Psychologists are available now too etc.. over the internet and people who feel they might do something they could not take back, can access help anonymously.
As often abusers have been abused and this is what leads to the continuation ...
It depends on the degree of the pedophile's crime, but I think castration is a bit too severe.
i took a book to be blessed on the weekend, a family history book of someone I know, who when we have argued, I have seen almost jump....When I got to the church, the reverend blessed it and I felt someone asking me if all churchs are bad... I thought back no, there are ones that are not like that... I could see the image of a grave stone. I thought it was english.. and I felt the energy leave the book...
you may think Im odd, I used to get dreams at night, the night the gulf war started, .. I saw people in an underground lift coming up to a desert surface and an explosion.... and we all prayed..
i have had one where there was words in blood written all over a wall and I could feel the creepy vib of someone who may have harmed children. I got up in the middle of the night and made notes .... I believe it was a victim who had killed their perpetrator.
Maybe an Island somewhere should be found for them and they can all be plonked down on it to live out the rest of their lives. No way off except by boat or helicopter (too small to land most planes). Food is occasionally parachuted in. New inmates are occasionally dropped off.
Before anything is done make absolutely sure you really do have a child molester on your hands. Mistakes can be made.
I agree, that is why I stated a trial by jury AND phorensic evidence. I am more of a liberal that anything else, although I hold very conservative opinions in a number of venues. But I know whats right and do not believe in letting twisted individuals off on a technicality.
Sure don't let twisted individuals off on a technicality but make sure no one is tipping the scales for an easy conviction. There was a case some years ago when a man and his wife were jailed by the false testimony of their own children. How can this be? The kids were frightened and they were being asked leading questions. The interviewer would keep bugging them until she got what she wanted from them and then she would reinforce it with treats. It was thus that evidence was manufactured.
Depends what kind of pedophilia we are talking about.
1. Sex with really young ACTUAL children.
We should try to find a cure for this, in the interests of social cohesion and the greater good.
2. An older male having sex with underage girls, 12 - legal age limit.
This shouldnt be a crime unless force was involved. It is completely normal, and in fact universal, that men are attracted to nubile young females, and that those same females are attracted to older powerful males. In fact all the social mores against this behaviour is entirely rooted in these males trying to deny access to the young females, including their own daughters, to other males, FOR THE PURPOSE OF SAVING THE FEMALES FOR THEMSELVES.
The legal age in most places is 14-16 with a boy of no more than a few years older.
You obviously have little education on psychological coercion.
As someone with young daughters and who had been in this situation as a teen, you kind of make me sick to my stomach.
I have a daughter and a son.
I already addressed notions of force, this is meant to include both physical and psychological coercion.
Clearly whenever a girl enters puberty, she is ready for sexual encounters. There would not be much point in her body making her capable of reproducing if she isnt supposed to reproduce. Can you give me any examples in the animal kingdom of animals that become physically capable of reproduction, but are too "young" (lololol) to engage in sex?
Often times a girl will innocently engage in sexual acts, enjoying them, wanting them, and then society and her peers will make her feel bad about this, then leading her to blame these feelings on the myth of the sexually agreesive male overpowering the weaker stupid female. Why not give the female sax some credit for once, I thought the feminists deposed all your nonsense of females not knowing their own minds long ago.
You're talking about kids. 12 year olds are kids. Since you have a daughter I'm sure you must know that. Do you really think your daughter at 12 would be attracted 40 year old men? They're not. They're attracted to boys.
Using the feminist movement to okay older men coercing teen girls into having sex with them is quite twisted. Maybe a little different if you were talking about women not young girls.
I certainly hope you don't put your beliefs into practise with your daughter and leave her unprotected with molesters. I wonder if you really think about the things you say. So if something happens, she brought it on herself?
Extremely primitive thinking. Go pick up a book and try learning something. There is a difference between an adult woman's mind and a teen mind. Let's call it maturity. That's why they live at home with their parents to protect them from people who think like you.
It's also worth mentioning that thanks to better diets and environmental exposure to endocrine disrupting man-made chemicals, girls are entering puberty at much younger ages than they did in the past.
The average of menarche today is 12, with some girls starting as young as 8. In Victorian times, the average age was 16. The difference in emotional maturity between a 12 year old and a 16 year old is considerable; between an 8 year old and a 16 year old it is vast.
Yes, I was 9 when menarche began. According to this one,ready to go and all hot for the old men.
"Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed." The cry of uneducated perverts everywhere.
I would like to see this person come on with their real name and state their thinking.
Very easy to read a few evolution books, paraphrase and twist it to thier own line of thinking. A bit harder to think deeply.
What I get a laugh out of is the bible bashing from someone with the same thought processes they used in the time it was written.
it's not always because of better diets even though it may appear to be better. there are hormones in cows milk, in meat, dairy products causing puberty to begin earlier than normal. they inject synthetic growth hormones into dairy cows and beef cattle, and chickens (the chickens are so big they can't stand up).. to make a kid's favorite food, chicken nuggets.
if her diet is monitored better to eat healthier foods, puberty should arrive when it's supposed to. their brain is still developing until mid 20's.
http://www.madd.org/cf/victim/tributedi … ierId=9666
Food everywhere tends to be tampered with nowadays from fruit and veg in the local green grocers to packaged and canned food. Even what is natural is up for debate. They can put natural flavors on a can or a packet and then you read on and find a number for the flavor. I have been told that the color red often comes from a South American beetle and because it comes from an animal that it is okay to call it natural when it turns up in food.
rebekahELLE I agree with what you have said. I would also say that there is more hyperactivity in children and that also adds to the situation. This is brought about by the enormous amount of artificial or refined sugar in a lot of food and other sweeteners like corn syrup, artificial colors and flavors.
Also in Victorian times children were not exposed to images of sex the way they are today. If a male in his late teens were to get his hands on a French postcard showing a woman in her twenties on a push bike wearing nothing but her hat he was lucky.
Man! You sound a lot like Tony Alamo!
Why not give her some credit???
I say why not give her some protection from perverted adults who think like you do!
yeah,... you see.. that's the one i was talking about
Have you ever heard that just because a girl has her period doesn't mean she is 'ready'. Just because a woman starts to develop breast doesn't mean she is done growing. And it is a fact, that even when girls enter puberty, their reproductive organs are still developing.
-edit-Sorry this was directed to the person you commented on.
I must give you a standing ovation again!!!!
you are 100% correct!
Sandra, leave the guy alone...
It's tough enough to get access to the internet while you are behind bars serving a long prison term, and now he has to deal with your condemnation!?!?!
What do you mean? That person is a convicted pedophile?
Probably not.. but if he thinks it's OK to have sex with a 12 year old, then he might one day be
In Ireland we have listened for generations as Priests, Bishops, Judges, Barristers, Solicitors, Police officers - have preached against sexual crime - as it turns out many thousands of Priests, Bishops, Judges, Baristers, Solicitors and Police officers were actually engaged in sexual crime - as 85% of sexual crime against children takes place in the family home - I think that those who shout the loudest should concern themselves with what is happening in their own family before they go out and try to create a moral panic - They who shout loudest do so to conceal their own crimes - thats what I think
Yes, it has absolutely nothing to do with the worry parents feel about letting their children out in public knowing that their are sex abusers out there just ready to snatch up our children and then knowing that if they did and let's say, Mom hunted him down herself and cut off his balls and fed them to him and then made him crap them out, she would be the criminal not the abuser.
I think people who don't take it seriously enough make it possible for them to get away with it.
I heard an interview recently on the BBC where a pedophile said that chemical castration worked for him in that it reduced his sexual drive. One cannot lock people up forever and as I said in my hub on the topic, pedophiles can be victims of hysterical lynchmobs.
Izzy Anne - did you expect a pedophile to say that chemical castration had not worked and that he was still a threat to children - Chemical castration in all studies is of little value - most child driven sexual predators be they Homophiles - Hetrophiles or Pedophiles - abuse children through sexual fantasy and by using their hands - sexual castration has no effect on these two aspects of child sexual abuse the majority of which is carried out within the family home.....Education is the only weapon that will reduce sexual crime directed at children........the problem is that those most vocal about sexual crime are trying to hide their own crimes or they speak in ignorance and simply create the enviroment where sexual crime continues in all its forms.......
It is also worth noting that many of the pedophiles recently discovered on social net working sites by the FBI - made many comments and contributions to discussions on sexual crime - the pedophiles were found in the majority of cases to actually support and even start campaigns against those committing sexual crime - therefore trying to lure the unsuspecting into their perverse world - so be careful on the Net - you never know who the real perv might be.
How do you chemically castrate a woman - seeing as women committ as much sexual crime against children as men according to international experts.
Part of the problem is that there are two main kinds of child molesters. Situational offenders generally become abusers in response to certain types of stress and actually have a pretty low repeat offense rate after incarceration. Preferential offenders (true pedophiles, with a genuine, lifelong sexual preference for underage children) have one of the highest repeat offense rates of any criminal. You need to figure out which kind you're dealing with before you can determine an effective punishment or treatment.
That was the logical side of me talking.
The emotional side would rip the heart of anyone who did that to my daughter out with my bare hands.
kerryg - well said - however - as we see in Ireland time and again - even the most rational and civilised Mammies and Daddies have committed such crimes or indeed concealed such crimes - I believe that education is the only way to deal with this particular crime genre - for example how many times have you ever read the term Homophile - the reason you dont see it is because there are those in our society who want us all to believe that child sexual abuse is the preserve of hetrosexual males - when in reality that is clearly not the case....untill these 'agendas' are removed from the debate - child sexual abuse will continue to be a moral quagmire......
Careful of your language here. Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same things at all.
Situational offenders are opportunistic and tend to attack vulnerable children regardless of sex. The majority (60-70%) are at least outwardly heterosexual.
Preferential offenders may have a preferred sex, but they are incapable of sustaining normal sexual relations with adults of their preferred sex, so a male pedophile attacking male boys does not mean he is homosexual any more than a male pedophile attacking girls means he is heterosexual. The age is the defining factor in their fixation, not the sex. This is why they are called pedophiles rather than homophiles or heterophiles. Many preferential offenders also have preferred ethnicities, hair colors, eye colors, etc. but nobody would say they are "blondphiles."
as stated previously, some of these crimes are committed for more bizarre purposes. Look at the MK ultra programming... be aware.
I work in a maximum security prison. The unit i work on has hundreds of these sick bastards. They are usually the ones who are the first to complain about their rights. Or the ones that want to grab hold of religion.
It used to be that prison was a dangerous place for pedophiles. That is no longer the case because there are so many of them in the system.
While at work I remain professional but it is really hard for me to stomach sometimes.
Next to forcing them to get married to someone (which is just a less medical form of castration) I think that would be the strongest possible deterrent EVER
I know you're cracking a joke, but this topics sort of kills my sense of humor, so as hilarious as it might be to joke about marriage being "castrating" under normal circumstances, I wish you wouldn't when we're talking about child sex abuse.
If anything, marriage for these people is likely to compound the damage. 30% of child sex offenses are committed by relatives of the child, often fathers or stepfathers, and there's an entire subcategory of situational offenders who are basically equal opportunity abusers and tend to rape/beat their wives in addition to their children, their elderly parents, their animals, and anybody else they can get sufficient power over. Regressed offenders, another situational type, also have a strong propensity for victimizing relatives. Marriage is really the last situation you want a potential sex offender to get into.
I'm not joking (well, OK I am about the marriage part)...
but I really think that the threat of cutting off someone's balls would go along way to stopping some child molesters (maybe not all, but some)
Now as for wife abusers, I am sure we can come up with something more approapiate that fits their crimes... like getting a bunch of bikers to beat the crap out of them
Speaking of which, it seems like the punishment for a victim of rape (not including pedophilia) is more severe than child sex offenders. Why is that?
when i was 7 i was held captive by my cousins father. he repeatedly molested me over that 3 days. no one was looking for me because they trusted him enough to let him take me camping. when he took me home he threatened my life if i ever told anyone how much he "loved me".
my parents were always too busy to talk to anyway. so i kept queit. he finally died when i turned 17. that's when i had a break down with so many emotions than i could handle. i told my family and sought the professional help i needed. to this day more than half of my family doesn't believe me. even my cousin whom i was very close with before his dad did that to me. now that half of my family has exciled me from their lives, calling me a liar, i'm still suffering deeply from that 3 days. i'm also wondering if it was worth the price i paid by telling my family ans seeking help.
You did nothing wrong. You were a victim. If the other family members don't believe you, it's their ignorance. You are free now, he is dead. Continue in therapy. I understand, I care, and I believe you.
I believe you too. I had a friend when I was a kid and she would always get really panicky when her mom would leave. She never wanted to stay home alone with her dad.
She used to cry if I couldn't come over when her and my mom went out... turns out that she was being abused by her dad and no one ever noticed.
When she finally told her mom, you can just imagine how hard it is to hear and the guilt you would feel, even I feel a bit guilty but I was kid and couldn't read between the lines like that.
Fortunately for them their dad got locked up for a long time but even then, it is not long enough but the mother and my friend will spend the rest of their lives feeling shame for something they couldn't control.
no, you didn't do ANYTHING wrong. you did exactly the right thing by telling your family the truth and seeking help. if you ask me, your family is the one that did something wrong by not only allowing these horrific things to happen to you, but not even listening to you after you tell them the truth. therefore, you didn't fail anyone, they failed you.
the only reason i posted this very personal information was to prove that there is no punishment severe enough for pedophiles. even after this guy is dead i'm still suffering. no matter what happens to the pedophile the victims will never be the same again and never live without flashbacks, family and public criticism. i'm trying to pull my life together now that i'm almost 25. i'm staying busy on my books and trying to find as many support systems as i can. hubpages has been a big help there.
Lecie, you have my shoulder to cry on! I've a 7yr old daughter and from your testimony I am better informed. Thank you!
thank you, you're very sweet. signs to watch out for are,
1. your daughter starts going off alone
2. she talks alot less than normal
3. when a friend invites her to stay the night she says no. especially when she used to say yes.
4. she begins eating more or less than usual
5. she rarely ever smiles when she used to smile all of the time
these are just some things to watch out for. this is how i acted as a child after being held captive. my parents were too busy to notice these signs. i hope this never happens to your daughter but at least you'll know what to look for. the sooner someone notices there's something wrong the sooner help can be provided for the child. i wish i had someone to help me when this happened.
Lecie, thank you for your insight. I will also keep these things in my mind regarding my own child. Be blessed babe.
I echo this too, Lecie.
I'm so sorry that happened to you.
I wish you well in life.
I hope counseling is helping or has helped?
insurance only covered a lousy counslor and therapist. i say lousy because they kept leaving for better paying jobs and i was passed around like a hot potato. sure didn't help my fear and mistrust of people. now i'm using my work(writing books) to help and i've begun to go to the stores when i used to just make a list and send my mom. so i see it as progress though be it slow it is progress.
you are welcome. as a victim i do have very strong opinions on this subject. i especially hate being called a victim. i wish we could come up with a better word. victim just makes me feel so weak. but i don't know what word to put that everyone will get. maybe the offensee
nah that's to close to the offender. i don't know what to put can someone think of a better word for me?
How about a VicTOR? ... because you have faced horrific peril and emerged victorious.
You've not only survived ... you have helped others.
thanks for sharing, I'm sure it will help others.
lisa ling is doing an investigative report on pedophiles that will be aired on monday april 12 on oprah. it may be a repeat, but those shows are worth watching.
kerry - dont get me wrong - but you are not well informed in these matters - the forensic psychiatric clinical definition for a male or female who sexually abuses a child with the same sex as their own is a HOMOPHILE - just as a man/women who sexually abuses a same sex child is a HETROPHILE - nobody mentioned homosexuality only yourself - I spent years researching this topic and it was part of my Masters Degree (thesis) - the majority of sex abuse cases against children are not committed by 60-70% hetrosexual males - 98% of priests and other religious who abused children all over the world were Homophiles
Good reserch, Observer! We have three of them from the born-again churches!
Interesting. That may be a vocabulary difference between American and British English. Here "homophile" is an outdated term for homosexual.
Where are you getting the 98% statistic? I don't know about Ireland, but here in the US reported cases of priest sex abuse tend to be about 2/3 boys and 1/3 girls. In the general population, about 15-25% of girls and 5-15% of boys (again, US statistics) were victims of child sex abuse at least once.
Greek, with that view by that other poster I might indeed re-think my view against physical castration.....
It's so frustrating when people blame the child....
..There is always the situation where a child has or will falsely accuse an adult of course.
But I'd say it's more usual for the molester to try to twist things around and try to place blame on the child. So maddening.
Children are more in the know about things sexual. A child is more likely today to make up a story based on what they have come across on television or the internet or some book they weren't supposed to read than in previous generations. And children are not always aware of the harm lies can do and there are some adults who still think children cannot lie about these matters.
That was the most ridiculous conversation I think I've heard! Some people shouldn't be parents or breeding for that matter. I'm just glad we raised our son better than that, what an irresponsible attitude!
It's time to call the cops!
Yeah, I think so.
Not that anybody but quark needs the reminder, but here's what happens to child brides:
"Child marriage all too readily reveals itself as a sophisticated form of female infanticide, for millions of these girls died from gynecological damage, or in childbirth, every year. As late as 1921, the British Government Official Census of India recorded that 3,200,000 child brides had died during the previous 12 months, under circumstances recorded by British Army doctors: 'A. Aged 9. Day after marriage. Left femur dislocated, pelvis crushed out of shape. Flesh hanging in shreds. B. Aged 10. Unable to stand, bleeding profusely, flesh much lacerated. C. Aged 9. So complete;y ravished as to be almost beyond surgical repair. Her husband had two other living wives and spoke very fine English. I. Aged 7. Living with husband. Died in great agony after three days. M. Aged about 10. Crawled to hospital on her hands and knees. Has never been able to stand erect since her marriage.'"
More recently, a child bride in Yemen died of severe bleeding last year after three days laboring to give birth to a stillborn child. She was 12. Childbirth is the leading cause of death for girls age 15-19 in the developing world.
I know and understand the "adverse"sexual effects that young girls, all around this world, are subjected to.
I didn't make a statement concerning "right or wrong," because those are relative concepts created by cultures and societies.
I said that as "primates," it is natural for man to seek the young and vivacious. The chances for producing a strong healthy offspring are greater. In every mammalian species the strongest male picks the female/s he desires to copulate with. In humans the same genetic propensity exists. It has been that way for who knows how long. The strong survive. Begin with the "sperm." Nature produces millions of them and the strongest, most able make it to the egg. Evolution and the processes of natural selection have developed that form of security in reproduction.
I am probably the most powerful advocate against child molestation that you will ever know! Any human being who molests a pre-pubescent child, should suffer the maximum penalty prescribed by law! But pedophilia happens at differing levels of lawfulness and should be dealt with according to the severity of the crime. I mentioned earlier that an 18 yr old boy had consentual sex with his 16 yr old g/f. The parents had him arrested for statutory rape. He did time and is now branded for life as a pedophile..would you want this boy to have his testicles removed for that "crime of pedophilia?"
..that is WRONG!
We live in America. Our laws differ from those of other countries and cultures. In some other countries they consider us to be backward in ref to our attitudes about sex and pedophilia. Who's right? who's wrong? it depends upon the mores of a nation or culture.
Does this make any sense to you?
The "primitive" level of intellect in this room is amazing!...but expected... No surprise. :-)
Coming from you, the insult is a waste of time.
So you believe that any man who goes out and has sex with a child or "defenseless infant" as you put it is just acting on his sexual instinct and it is normal and shouldn't be punished?
Congratulations, your primitive mind has really devolved. Despite medical facts that even when a girl has her first cycle, it doesn't mean she has fully developed and in many cases these children of cutlers who allow it also die, psychological factors such as pedophilia being a product of power and omitting the feelings and disregarding the mental development of a child... you still believe that it is natural and correct?
I say ............ hang em ............ once a pediphile....always a pediphile ...........just do what they did in the old days .......... put em in the street ,,,for everyone to see and hang the son of a bitch ..
Its interesting how many continue to say things like, "I dont know how a man could do such things to a child" - as I have said previously men and woman committe these crimes with equal regularity - people who continue to promote the view that only hetrosexual men abuse children - are in fact facilitating child abuse through ignorance and lack of education
Actually, females NEVER entered menarche later in victorian times. That was just false reporting by their fathers/familys, for obvious social/sexual reasons, which included fatherly access to the females. Why dont people think, or research, before they just post any old nonsense.
Again, I never said that older males can just have sex with children, I said that females younger that the statatory limit do sometimes WANT sex, and the male should not be criminalized in these situations. I also described how this is the natural result of evolution of men getting access to young breeding females, and young females getting access to older powerful males. I then showed how society makes both partys feel bad, and makes up the twin myths of the stupid, powerless female, who doesnt know what she wants, needs protection and the sexually overpowering rapist male. So dont twist what I say.
I personally knew a 13 year old girl who had a contraceptive implant in her arm, put there by her parents, who slept with most everyone in town. (No not me) She was even sleeping with a 30 year old. Her parents knew this, everyone knew this, no body cared because she knew exactly what she wanted and she got it. I dont see how that should be a problem for the males she had sex with.
Calling me a pedophile, saying that I hang around schools, and the like, is personally insulting. I am going to think about reporting those posts.
I find that those that decry it the loudest, are often the worst offenders....
Why dont you actually present some evidence that I am wrong, instead of just assuming it. Again, you claim that human females enter menarche, not ready to have sex. If thatw as true, then WHY IS THEIR BODY CAPABLE OF REPRODUCTION? Explain that!!! Can you give me ANY examples of other lifeforms for which this is true?
Your views are just western-christian viewpoints, they are not the only ones, they are not necessarily the correct ones.
Sorry to offend you, but your posts reek of sickness.
Genitals in a fetus are fully formed between 16-18 weeks. Does their existence mean that the unborn child is ready for sexual contact???
Babies by instinct touch themselves, are they ready??
How the Hell is a 12 year old in the right mental maturaity to have sex??
You defend yourself by saying that "I never said that older males can just have sex with children", but then in the exact same post you talk about a 13 year old girl who had sex with 30 year olds and that you "dont see how that should be a problem".
You post this kind of garbage and then YOU are offended. Why are you so insulted? Why? What's wrong with an adult looking for pre-teens if they are 'ready' for sex like your 13 year old friend???
Walk into a doctors office and explain to a physician how a child is ready to reproduce as soon as they begin to have periods.
Better yet a police station.
I have to say, antecessor, your post is a twisted, disturbing read. are you excusing pedophiles????? (the real ones, not the 18 year old who had sex with his 16 year old girlfriend.)
each period of history evolves as more information is discovered and brought to light.
your views are somewhere back in the dark ages.
there's a reason why children stay with their parents until the age of 18. under that age they don't have the proper knowledge or experience to make their own decisions or choices. the parents still have to guide them and teach them. if the parent allows the 13 year old to have sex with 30 year olds then they are not doing their job. this 13 year old may think it's what she wants now but 10 years from now when she wants to get married she may be turned down for being so active. she may also be at risk for std's. my point is she doesn't have the knowledge to know any better. but all of the adults do as well as her parents. they should all be ashamed for possibly risking her life and ruining her future.
yes it is. but if no one reports it the girl can't5 get the help she needs. so i hope someone that knows this girl will report this. she needs help and if you know her and don't report it you may be considered an accessory.
Burrell Mohler Family Values--Pedophilia and Incest in a red state.
Like it never happens in blue states?
At least in the red states, they are arrested. In the blue states, they get elected to congress.
It's almost a tradition in the southern red states, at least according to the jokes that get told about rednecks.
Ah, yes, I see your confusion .. it's called a joke ... let me explain ...
The people from the red states are making fun of a small minority of their neighbors, most of whom also rely on "gubmit aid" and therefore vote democrat (further isolating them from the rest of the population.)
When it's not a joke and when actual proof of the crime is discovered, they are arrested.
Seeing has how you're from Louisiana, I can see where you got confused. Sorry about that. I'll type slower next time.
You do understand that reporting me wont do anything unless I've broken forum rules right brenda?
Telling the truth by trying to get a lynch mob to distinguish between true pedophilia and statutory offences is not against forum rules.
I never said anywhere it was ok for an older male to seek young females, I said it was natural, murder is natural too, doesnt mean its ok.
What I did say was ok, was in the rare (or perhaps not so rare) cases where a young female below the statutory limit seeks out, are attracted to and PERSONALLY WANT an older male, the girl should not be made to feel bad about what she wants, and the male should not be criminalised.
Report me all you like, it doesnt make my views less true, and it doesnt make my views illegal.
And in the case of the 13 year old I spoke of (which was 10 years ago now), even the police knew, it was a very small town. They said that nothing would be done, UNLESS THE GIRL, OR HER PARENTS, COMPLAINED.
I am married, and I have 2 kids, a girl and a boy, and I can tell you right now, my girl will be getting a contraceptive implant. I dont want her pregnant just because of dark age viewpoints that say that 13 years olds dont have sex, because they do! (Though I will be discouraging her, just because I defend it, doesnt mean I LIKE it, just like I defend gays, but wouldnt engage in homosexuality myself)
As for your claims that a females sexual activity should affect her future desirability, that is just sick twisted antifeminism. Why should a girls value be decreased if she engages in sex, now that IS out of the dark ages. Are you going to call these girls sluts next!!
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