Muslims - should they be unveiled

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  1. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Peace among the nations smile

    1. profile image0
      china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      and wearing bow ties should be banned in Ireland big_smile

  2. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    And top-hats brother smile

  3. TMMason profile image59
    TMMasonposted 14 years ago

    Still waiting Ralph.... I guess this just proves my point.

  4. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Let the world be as one smile

  5. TMMason profile image59
    TMMasonposted 14 years ago

    I couldn't give a shit less about the world.

    I am done with globalism. We are not one happy village.

    America needs to worry about America.... or there won't be an America.

    And then the world will be screwed.

  6. michifus profile image56
    michifusposted 14 years ago

    If a Muslim woman chooses to wear a veil then what is the problem with that? It is no different than someone choosing to wear a hat. Freedom to practice whatever religion one chooses is a basic human right(As long as that practice does not harm other individuals)

    As for some comments about it being a threat to security, it seems ludicrous to me. What next, the banning of beards and sunglasses?

    I agree that when moving to a new country, that steps should be taken for the immigrant to integrate with that society, however clothing is not one such thing.

    It is something that matters a great deal to many Muslims, but is it that important to non- Muslims? Do non-Muslims REALLY care what Muslims wear?

    1. profile image49
      paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friend michifus

      I agree with your viewpoint; if it is not a security risk, then freedom of faith and freedom to express should be allowed. It should not bother others.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  7. TMMason profile image59
    TMMasonposted 14 years ago

    That is rediculous.

    If you don't want to obey the laws of another country. Don't go there.

    And many Muslims have dressed as a Muslimah to kill people.

    1. profile image49
      paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friend TMMason

      What is ridiculous ? They are already nationals of that country. Don't be a fanatic, please?

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    2. michifus profile image56
      michifusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The laws were applied long after Italy accepted Muslims into their country and registered them as citizens, allowed them to work, receive health care, vote, contribute to society etc. etc.

      Any Muslim woman (or husband) considering a move to Italy now, would have to bear in mind that they would not be totally free, but those already living there have have lost certain freedoms.

      Where do you live TMMason? The USA? As far as I know, the land of the free still allows people these basic human rights and dress code is not applied there based on religion. Christians, Mormons, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists are free to wear whatever they please. Isn't that a much better way of living?

      If you were told you were not allowed to wear jeans in your own country, you'd be a little ticked off I would imagine. What is the difference?

      1. TMMason profile image59
        TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Well if Muslims wouldn't dress like women and slaughter civillians... we wouldn't have this issue.  But since Islam preaches that Jihad is obligatory till the day of judgment. Then countries have to do what they must to defend from them. including profiling and law in regards to public identification.

        And I don't blame the Muslims. It even says in the Qu'ran. "Though you may not like it is possible for you to not like a thing which is good for you."

        So allah knows best.

        Literally... that is what it means. Literally. Allah knows best that it is good for a muslim to kill to advance Islam. Even though that Muslim may not think so.

        1. michifus profile image56
          michifusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I think you are getting a little confused.

          Muslims do not slaughter civilians. Muslims are pretty peaceful I have found, of course there are the occasional few who take religion as a reason for killing, but it is such a tiny minority. You should not tarnish a whole faith on the basis of such a few.

        2. profile image49
          paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Hi friend TMMason

          I think you have not read Quran for yourself; please read it from online and your opinion will be moderated to a norm, I give a useful link for your study:

          http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/index.php

          If you find any difficulty ; it will be discussed here very friendly and peacefully.

          Quran is a very small book as compared to Bible; it may be of the size of four gospel combined; and it is a reason oriented book and with systems; it will be a good experience for you to read it; I promise you.

          Thanks

          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

          1. TMMason profile image59
            TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Again...

            The Verses [below] clearly state that He (Allah) is Able to give victory to His worshippers (the believers) without fighting, but Allah wants from His worshippers obedience with all their efforts. As in His Statement:


            So when you meet (in fight... Jihad in Allah's Cause) those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom) or ransom (according to whatbenefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad againstthe disbelievers till they embrace Islam (i.e. are saved from the punishment in the Hellfire) orat leastcome under your protection] but if it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight) in orderto test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.

            He will guide them and set right their state. And admit them to Paradise which He has made known to them (i.e. they will know their places in Paradise more than they used to know their houses in this world). (V.47:4, 5,6).


            Then after that He made (Jihad) "fighting" obligatory against all those who fight you (Muslims); not against those who didn't fight you. So Allah ordered:

            And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you... (V.2:I9O).

            Then Allah (swt) revealed in Sarah Tauba (Bara 'a) (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) the obligations (covenants, etc.) and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Mushrikun as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizya (a tax levied on the nonMuslims who do not embrace Islam and are under the protectionofanlslamicgovernment) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in the Verse 9:29). So they (Muslims) were not permitted to abandon "the fighting" against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and are able to fight against them (non Muslims).

            http://islamworld.net/docs/jihad.html

            http:// islam world . net/docs/jihad.html

            I have a question for you Pass. Why of 99 names does not one of allah's connote love?

            I would strongly advise everyone here to read the link I posted. That is the true understanding of Jihad in the Qu'ran. And it is OBLIGATORY upon all muslims to support it in some way. (ie; money- Zakat, community support- loaning them your wives clothes to sneak around in), etc...


            Too bad.

            And keep your link Paas. I know way more about the Qu'ran and Islam then I ever wanted to now. And I know it just fine.

            1. profile image49
              paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Hi friend TMMason

              How mistaken you are? Quran starts with words better than love; it is grace,mercy and kindness.


              [1:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.

              http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … r.php?ch=1

              Love is used for sex also; hence other words are used.

              Thanks

              I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

              1. TMMason profile image59
                TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                So your saying Allah has no name that connote love. BUT! That is okay because it has the intro Grace Mercy and kindness.

                Okay so that is a... Yes TM, none of allah's names cannote love.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  LOL

                  You better explain that you Right Wing Kristians have an interesting meaning for the word "love" LOLOL

                  Islamic peace = Christian love. wink

                  1. TMMason profile image59
                    TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Yeah I am just terrified of all the crazy christian terrorists.

                    Umhm.... yeah

                2. FranyaBlue profile image63
                  FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this
                  1. TMMason profile image59
                    TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    That is not the generally accepted translation.

                3. profile image49
                  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Hi friend "Love" is no name of God Allah YHWH in the Christian scriptures; it is in English translation that it has been translated as love.

                  World knows how many love has Christians given to the world in deceit of this world?

                  The Christians guns have ensued much "love" to the aborigines  in Americas and Australia; and with much "love" did they enslave the Africans.

                  I think it happened only a few centuries ago; now they are much civilized; and we thank God Allah YHWH for that.

                  Thanks

                  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

                  Thanks

                  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

                  1. TMMason profile image59
                    TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    That is what I thought paas... but she has some Islamic scholarship on her side.

  8. TMMason profile image59
    TMMasonposted 14 years ago

    "A 26-year-old Tunisian woman has been fined for wearing a face veil while walking to a mosque in northern Italy, stoking an increasing debate on the integration of Muslim minorities in Europe."


    She should have stayed in Tunisia. If she didn't want to obey the laws of Europe.

  9. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Peace can only be achived through mutual understanding smile

  10. TMMason profile image59
    TMMasonposted 14 years ago

    Peace is gained through, Law. And the following of it. Italy has not bombed anyone in how many decades? And you think they are the bad guys?

    You follow the law. I don't like all the laws in my country. But I do not break them and cry about it.

    And I damn sure wouldn't go to Mexico or Italy and break thiers.

    Go on over to Saudi Arabia, or Indonesia, Korea, China or Burma. Go break thier laws and see where it gets you.

    1. michifus profile image56
      michifusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Italy did side with the extreme right wing during the second world war and it sounds like your viewpoints come from the exact same place.

      1. TMMason profile image59
        TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Actually Nazis are leftists. Socailists. Thus the name of the party.

        Man...? You okay?

        Stop trying to dis-own your leftists fore-fathers.

        1. michifus profile image56
          michifusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Well, again I fear you are somewhat misguided. Whilst Nazism does take in parts of both left and right wing ideologies, in practice Nazism is right wing politics. It is national socialism, which is a rather different form of socialism. Anyway, I'm not interested in arguing the toss.

          Italy is well within its rights to vote against the wearing of veils, I was just putting my point of view across that I do not feel it is right to discriminate in such a way. They would not get my vote that's for sure.

          1. TMMason profile image59
            TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I will agree to dis-agree with you on the Nazi thing.

            But yup, Its a law.

          2. outdoorsguy profile image60
            outdoorsguyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            oddly its considered Right wing in Europe but in the US its always been considered leftist.

            1. michifus profile image56
              michifusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              we were both right!

              or left

    2. FranyaBlue profile image63
      FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I'm sure that there were Italian troops sent to both Iraq and Afghanistan....so it is quite possible that the Italians have bombed people in the last decade.

      1. TMMason profile image59
        TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        not sure if there were or how many.

        But my point is. Italy cannot be said to be an extremely aggressive country in the world these days.

        They are actually very mild compared to us racist imperialistic Americans.

        1. FranyaBlue profile image63
          FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I know.....I was just being picky smile

          Italy did send troops but only a few thousand to each... I think.

          1. TMMason profile image59
            TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            K...smile

            And I gotta say fran... that title with the Ignorant parents who breed intolorant children... that is too funny.

            I think I am going to have to read some of your hubs.

            1. FranyaBlue profile image63
              FranyaBlueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              lol Thanks....

              Most of them are sewing how to's so if you sew in your spare time...... lol

              And at last....you cracked a smiley smile it counts as charity you know lol

  11. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Unveiling the Vatican

    The Vatican will make its most detailed defence yet today against claims that it is liable for US bishops who allowed priests to molest children. The Vatican will make its most detailed defence yet today against claims that it is liable for US bishops who allowed priests to molest children.

    It will say bishops are not its employees and that a 1962 Vatican document did not require them to keep quiet.

    The Vatican will make the arguments in a motion to dismiss a US lawsuit on jurisdictional grounds filed in Louisville, Kentucky, but it could affect other efforts to sue the Holy See.

    The Vatican's US lawyer, Jeffrey Lena, said it would include a response to claims that the 1962 document Crimen Sollicitationis - Latin for "crimes of solicitation" - barred bishops from reporting abuse to police.

    Mr Lena said last night there was no evidence the document was even known to the archdiocese in question - much less used - and, regardless of that, it did not mandate that bishops should not report abusive priests.

    He said the confidentiality imposed by Crimen did not supercede civil law and was applied only in formal canonical processes, which bishops had the discretion to suspend if there was a conflict with reporting laws.

    "It is important that people - particularly people who have suffered abuse - know that, contrary to what some plaintiffs' lawyers have consistently told the media, the canon law did not bar reporting of these crimes to the civil authorities," Mr Lena said.

    The document describes how church authorities should deal procedurally with cases of abuse of children by priests, cases where sex is solicited in the confessional - a particularly heinous crime under canon law - and cases of homosexuality and bestiality.

    The lawyer behind the Kentucky case, William McMurry, said in a recent email that the document was "a smoking gun".

    "It's evidence of a 'written' policy that demands no mention be made by a bishop of priest sex abuse," he said. "Since our case, and no other, is about holding the Vatican accountable for the bishops' failure to report to civil authorities, any policy that gags the bishop is relevant and material."

    The Holy See is trying to fend off the first US case to reach the stage of determining whether victims actually have a claim against the Vatican itself for negligence for the failure of bishops to alert police or the public about Roman Catholic priests who molested children.

    The case was filed in 2004 by three men who claim they were abused by priests decades ago and claim negligence by the Vatican.

    Mr McMurry is seeking class-action status for the case, saying there are thousands of victims across the country. McMurry also represented 243 sex abuse victims who settled with the Archdiocese of Louisville in 2003 for £17.5 million.

    The Vatican is seeking to dismiss the suit before Pope Benedict XVI can be questioned or documents subpoenaed.

    Its motion is being closely watched as the clerical abuse scandal swirls around the Holy See, since the court's eventual decision could have implications for a lawsuit naming top Vatican officials that was recently filed in Wisconsin and another one in Oregon is pending before the US Supreme Court.

    The Vatican was expected to assert that bishops are not its employees because they are not paid by Rome, do not act on Rome's behalf and are not controlled day to day by the Pope - factors courts use to determine whether employers are liable for the actions of their employees, Mr Lena said.

    He said he would suggest to the court that it should avoid using the religious nature of the relationship between bishops and the Pope as a basis for civil liability because it entangled the court in an analysis of religious doctrine that dated back to the apostles.

    "He (Mr McMurry) wishes to invoke religious authority to construct a civil employment relationship, and our view is that it's an inappropriate invitation to the court to consider religious doctrine," Mr Lena said.

    "Courts tend to avoid constructing civil relationships out of religious materials."

    Mr McMurry has said that the Vatican had clear and direct control over bishops, mandated a policy of secrecy, and is therefore liable for the bishops' failure to report abuse. He is seeking unspecified damages.

  12. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Is the Catholic Church any better than the Taliban with its secrets and lies smile

    1. Sab Oh profile image54
      Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Are you seriously drawing that comparison, or just exaggerating to make a point?

      1. Mark Knowles profile image59
        Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        You might want to read a few history books TK sensei. The Taliban has nothing on the Catholics. Deary me - does any one read books any more? sad

  13. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    exaggerating to make a point - but a good point I think smile

    1. Sab Oh profile image54
      Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Fair enough

  14. Ralph Deeds profile image63
    Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago

    Here's an unveiled Arab-American beauty. Not sure whether she's a Muslim. Miss Michigan and Miss USA.

    http://www.hulu.com/watch/149810/miss-u … wn-goes-to

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MluhagN3 … r_embedded

  15. Ralph Deeds profile image63
    Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago

    http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Avis=C4&Dato=20100517&Kategori=FEATURES&Lopenr=5170801&Ref=PH&Item=3&MaxW=600&MaxH=450&border=0&Quality=100

    1. Rod Marsden profile image67
      Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Nice.

  16. Greek One profile image64
    Greek Oneposted 14 years ago

    HELL YES!!!!

  17. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Ralph - what ever your selling Im buying smile

  18. Greek One profile image64
    Greek Oneposted 14 years ago

    look at her over there.. pointing at me... flirting!!

    Why can't these women take a hint!?!?!

    I'm married!!  Back off!!!

  19. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    yea - back off leave him alone smile

  20. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    France appears to be applying the rules to all religions not just Muslims

  21. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Peace to all men smile Irony indeed smile

  22. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    If peace is love - surely the world should hug smile

  23. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Will America follow France and ban all religious out showings smile

    1. Sab Oh profile image54
      Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Nope.

    2. TMMason profile image59
      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      No man, we are a Judao-Christian country, and most of us are proud of it.

  24. profile image0
    LEWJposted 14 years ago

    Should they be unveiled?    Only on dark and stormy nights!

  25. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    should the Pope be unveiled in relation to the cover ups in the Catholic Church smile

    1. alternate poet profile image67
      alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      AND don't forget those KKK girls !!

  26. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    lets just unveil them all smile

  27. donotfear profile image83
    donotfearposted 14 years ago

    I would certainly hope they would be unveiled, but it will take a miracle.  People have a right to believe what they want and follow a religious practice. But when the government gets involved and dictates it, that's when it's trouble. I am so glad we don't live under this kind of bondage.

    There are a few religious denominations in USA, though, who promote their own form of a "holiness standard" in order to direct believers to conform to the proper standard to the road of salvation.  Example: a 'certain denomination' will not allow women to cut their hair, wear slacks, wear make-up, or swim in public. They cite biblical scripture as the proof of this command. I find it demeaning, but there are many who believe this is the ONLY way to attain real salvation after death; to follow the strict standard as well as other requirements. Yes, it's in our country, and no, it's not an Islamic religion. It's based on Christianity.

    Note: if this is what the individual believes, wonderful, go for it. . As long as government stays out of it.

  28. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    President Nicolas Sarkozy urged French Muslims today not to feel hurt nor stigmatised by a planned ban on full face veils that will fine women who hide their faces and jail men if they force them to cover up.

    Mr Sarkozy told a cabinet meeting, which approved the bill that could become law this autumn, that France was an old nation that could not allow its vision of women's dignity and public order to be violated by the veil.

    Only a tiny minority of Muslim women in Europe wear full veils, called niqabs or burqas, but their numbers are growing. The Belgian parliament has already begun debating a ban there and could also impose it in the coming months.

    France has received criticism from Muslim groups and rights advocates for the planned "burqa ban", which Mr Sarkozy called for last year to counter Islamist views among some Muslims.

  29. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    I have a feeling that this could yet become a European Ban

  30. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Peace smile

  31. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Could such a ban lead to anti-muslim sentiment smile

  32. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Peace on earth to all good men smile

  33. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    More European countries appear to be talking about following France lead on this smile

  34. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    If religion was banned in all public places would people be more inclined to turn to capitalism for their faith smile

  35. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    If the French can live with snails - why not with veils smile

  36. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    It appears that other countries will impose the ban especially at airports and other such places smile

  37. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Jesus wore sandals should sandals be banned smile

  38. VENUGOPAL SIVAGNA profile image59
    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

    In one of my earlier posts, I asked an English woman (American / British / Indian) to wear a dignified dress. Immediately, several woman, even from conservative society, asked me not to interfere in the way of dressing. Everyone has the privilege to wear what they want to wear. I apologised and stopped it.

    Like that, woman in muslim society can wear what they want. The only problem is that we cant identify who is behind the veil. Even men / other woman / terrorists can hide themselves behing a veil. So, it should be left to the muslims what they should wear.

    In my personal view, it is better not to see the face of a pro-terrorist. Let them die their own death. If muslim woman take the initiative, they can prevent terrorism.

  39. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Peace among the nations smile

  40. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    I some countries women are getting lashed for waering trousers sad

  41. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Perhaps its time for change and end to religious intolerance smile

  42. bonnebartron profile image64
    bonnebartronposted 14 years ago

    perhaps we should worry about our own countries issues....

  43. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    correct smile

  44. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Peace among the nations smile

  45. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Peace is the only way forward smile

  46. thisisoli profile image76
    thisisoliposted 14 years ago

    Personally I would like to see some evidence behind the claims of how pre-historic men used to act, there seems to be a lot of claim here without much substance.

    I know very little about te subject, however I do know that very few other people know much about it either.  Archeological evidence is pretty scarce around the down of man.

  47. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    thisisoli - yes indeed - pre-historic man is just that - before history was recorded in wee note books - who can say who he was or what ideas he had - he may well have treated the ladies real good and never asked them to put on a veil smile

  48. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    I have read much in the media and I think it is fair to say that some people may be using certain issues in a racist way smile I have heard people say - when they are in this country they must obey our laws - interesting when some of the people they are talking about were born in the country they are talking about. smile

  49. Mezo profile image59
    Mezoposted 14 years ago

    Who said head covering is only in Islam?

    from the Bible: 1 Timothy
    [9] also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire "

    1Tim.2 (Revised standard version)..

    Also christian nuns cover their hair, and jewish women wear what is called a "jewish scarf"....why when it comes to Muslim women wanting to practice their religion, the europian freedom seems to stop there! This is not freedom

  50. theirishobserver. profile image60
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    Mezo - that is correct - smile

 
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