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Too Close to Ground Zero?

  1. Doug Hughes profile image60
    Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago

    MURFREESBORO, Tenn., Aug. 28, 2010

    "Federal officials are investigating a fire that started overnight at the site of a new Islamic center in a Nashville suburb.

    Ben Goodwin of the Rutherford County Sheriff's Department confirmed to CBS Affiliate WTVF that the fire, which burned construction equipment at the future site of the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro, is being ruled as arson.

    Special Agent Andy Anderson of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told CBS News that the fire destroyed one piece of construction equipment and damaged three others. Gas was poured over the equipment to start the fire, Anderson said..."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/ … ontentBody

    1. qwark profile image60
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      ..if they try to build the mosque close to "ground zero," watch!
      It will be destroyed every time construction begins....lets see if I'm right.

    2. dutchman1951 profile image61
      dutchman1951posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      This has been festering for a long time in Murfreesboro.

      The start of this proplem, ventures back 1 1/2 years to a land zoning referendum, where People wanted no more appartments. They were ok with this land being commercial so to gain tax revenue. There were rumors from the city offices of a Tax Free status clause, and folks said no we want real tax income, to thus add to current tax income and keep all property taxes low, because new tax would add to the coffers. Thus no vote to raise personal property tax.

      The Powers to be, had the referendum, then immedately , within weeks passed it over, and anounced a plan for a non profit Mosque. Thats what started this mess. The over-ride of the vote, because they were lazy and lousy at attracting new business and jobs into the area. and a Muslum group that was alredy here, decided they could build a big central Mosque! Take advantage of an opening and expand.  The fight is for Land, not religion, but Muslim fear is helping the situation along.

      I am from this area also, Hermitage, Tenn. The amasing thing here (to me) is when you go to Murfreesburo. For shopping, resturants, classes at the college etc... The real majority of the folks- there, minus the student population at MTSU, which does not live there perminantly.  ( Mostly Tax payers and Property owners) Honestly and truly do no want any Mosque at all.

      They will talk to you if you ask, and the folks I have talked to say it is too close?  I have to ask is it to close in Geographical location, or to close in memory of 9-1-1.

      When I think of ithis part of this mess, not the real land issue, I  also in fair-nes have to ask. Why is it ok for Groups like Hamas to say Arabs who have been wronged remember and we "have to" understand that wounds fester.

      But in their outlook, they close there minds to any possibility that Americans are people to, and we also remember.

      I do not condone acts of violence what so ever, and setting equipment on fire, or firing shots like has happend there, at that location- are indeed acts of Terror. Should be prosecuted as such.

      but  I do consider that if a real majority tells an area Goverment they do not want it in a referendum, then why are those people allowed to keep comming back, re-opening wounds. They lost to popular vote.

      Why do the politicans there- ignore that?  I have to wounder who is offering these community leaders monies on the side, what are they hiding or being promissed. And I honestly suspect the same things are going on in Bloombergs office in New York. Even though New York has not voted on anything I believe. At least to date.

      People- They said no in Murfreesboro...they mean NO!   Get over it, and please find another place to Build it, please. Homeowners and land owners- People in Murfreesboro and around that Nashville area, said NO. 

      The folks here do not want any violence if you ask them.  And reguardless they took a brave stance, because the Constitution is exact.  They realise it is explosive. Reguardless, they still said NO. The oposing group will tell you? If our President can Ignore the Constitution, say its flawed,  then why -can not,  Legal Citizens (Tax paying State Residents) say what they believe? Does not a vote count?

      The folks pushiing the Mosque need to realise this, and Look elsewhere please. We are Human and we remember when we are attacked. Just like any Arab can remember. We can to. Humans behave similar all over the world. We have rights to!

      I am sorry for the length of this, I'll get off my soap box now....lol I just felt the whole story needs to be shown. I am a devoued Christian, yes. But To me a Mosque is actually ok, God is God no matter what path,  but the folks there said no. It is about the land and a vote ignored.

  2. lrohner profile image85
    lrohnerposted 7 years ago

    Well, that sure didn't take long, did it? I'll bet we see a lot more of this in the days to come.

    1. Doug Hughes profile image60
      Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Doesn't this qualify as domestic terrorism?

      1. lrohner profile image85
        lrohnerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        This kind of stuff happens all the time. Look at all of the bombings by fanatics of the abortion clinics several years ago. I don't think this qualifies any more or less as domestic terrorism just because it happened to have something to do with an islamic center, if that's what you're trying to get at.

        1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
          weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          What do you call it when environmentalists firebomb a car dealership?   Or spike trees?   Or liberal activists firebomb the office of a Democrat candidate?    Care to enlighten us?

          1. Jeff Berndt profile image87
            Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            "What do you call it when environmentalists firebomb a car dealership?"
            Terrorism.
            "Or spike trees?"
            Terrorism.
            "Or liberal activists firebomb the office of a Democrat candidate?"
            Um...stupid terrorism?

            Was there a point to those questions, or were you just checking?

      2. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Certainly it does!  It is simply a message to Muslims that their religion is not wanted in the Bible Belt!  It is a direct result of the hype caused by the religious right and their protests against the so-called "ground zero mosque" controversy. 

        If this had been a christian based building site the Muslims would be blamed for the arson!  Thanks Faux News!

        1. Doug Hughes profile image60
          Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I guess a domestic terrorist has to carry the Koran.  Christians who dress in white robes with optional hoods for lynchings are just a fun-loving social club. With or without the robes - vandalizing the site of a church under construction - because you dislike that religion and wish drive fear into the memebers of that church IS domestic terrorism!

          If they catch the guys who did it, they can lock them up at Gitmo and throw away the key. For once, it's too bad they quit waterboarding.

          1. Tim_511 profile image75
            Tim_511posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            "Christians who dress in white robes"? 

            Yeah, right.  Try atheists, for the most part.  White power in this country has nothing to do with Christianity.

            1. Jeff Berndt profile image87
              Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              "White power in this country has nothing to do with Christianity."
              You never said a truer thing, but the white power folks would probably disagree. They wrap themselves in the Bible as well as the flag, and see no contradiction. Small minds, I guess.

              1. Tim_511 profile image75
                Tim_511posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                The real "white power" people in the US are atheist/anti-Christians (and I don't mean that those atheists and anti-Christians are necessarily the same people).  I'm not so stupid as to claim that no one in the movement claims to be a Christian, but the real movers hate Christianity.

        2. weholdthesetruths profile image61
          weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          This is hate speech.   It is utterly baseless accusations against a class of people, designed to foment hatred and animosity.    This is done by small minds and immoral cretins.    Thanks for demonstrating what's in your heart.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            In the sense that I "hate" how hypocritical some on the right are, you may have a point!  And what class of people are you referring to, Wehol?

            There is already hatred and animosity exhibited by those protesting the building of the center!  And you used the terms "small minds" and "immoral cretins."  Thanks for demonstrating what's in your mind!

            1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
              weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              How do you know that those who don't want certain things done are out of hate?   I know what hate is when I read it.   You can't tell something is hate, just because someone doesn't want something.   

              Note:  I make certain categorical statements about "liberals" and "conservatives" and even "libertarians".    But these are observed behaviors.   I do not speculate as to the motives of anyone.   But I do observe and correctly identify what people ARE ATTEMPTING TO DO.   

              I've written about the GZM, and what I say is perfectly clear.   It is also perfectly clear it's NOT HATE.    As for the motives of whoever committed arson?   We don't know.   We don't know who did it.   You're making baseless accusations against a whole group of people,  designed to foster hate.   Why?

      3. profile image60
        C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Actually if you read, there were folks protesting the location. The protest had no merit, the plans were approved and now, apparently someone has burned it. This could be hate or theft. Let's wait and see shall we?

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I predict no one will be charged for the arson!  I do hope I am wrong!

          1. profile image60
            C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Arson can be hard to prove. If it was some redneck bigot, he/she won't be able to keep their mouth shut and they will get caught.

        2. Flightkeeper profile image72
          Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          That would be too sensible of a move for the lefty chicken littles and would undermine their goal of painting all republicans as racists before the elections.

          1. luvpassion profile image60
            luvpassionposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Besides, its clear that with the fallen construction buisness the owner of the equipment probably found it more profitable to burn the equipment and collect the insurance then to continue making the payments. wink

            Teri

            1. profile image60
              C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I suspect this to be the case as well. If some bigot wanted to cause trouble why not wait until they actually started construction? The fact that a few pieces of heavy equipment were burned seems suspicious. Lot's of construction companies are feeling the pinch right now. Another possible motive is workers/members of the local community punishing there general contractor for bidding on/accepting the project. I see this as fraud or an indirect assault. I still think we all need to calm down on this issue.

          2. profile image60
            C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Unfortunately true. The problem is that I don't believe either side see's just how volatile this issue can be. We really don't need this trouble.....

  3. Doug Hughes profile image60
    Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago

    " It is utterly baseless accusations against a class of people, designed to foment hatred and animosity.    This is done by small minds and immoral cretins."

    Please explain. YOu seem to be defending the vandalism of construction equipment at the future site of a mosque??!! Or do you think it was a wennie roast that got out of hand? The FBI siad they doused the gear with gas and set fire to it.

    And Randy (or I) is formenting hatred and animosity??!!! We are immoral for calling out bigotry. Tell me I misunderstood you, please because normally I can respect the hubbers I disagree with but..

    1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
      weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      YOU are fomenting hate.   You said

      "Certainly it does!  It is simply a message to Muslims that their religion is not wanted in the Bible Belt!  It is a direct result of the hype caused by the religious right and their protests against the so-called "ground zero mosque" controversy."

      All of which is pure fiction.  You do not know who did it, nor why.  Made up to publicly malign a certain group of people - specifically all those who believe in the Bible, and prompt the reader to have animosity towards others.    This is the very definition of "hate speech".

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Okay!  Let's hear your reasoning as to why this was done!  Accident?  Done by the left to implicate the right?  Muslims themselves did it?  You tell me!

        1. Doug Hughes profile image60
          Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Randy - here's the punch line if you like satire. The clowns who are pretending that we don't know who did this because we don't have arrests and proof (yet) are the SAME clowns who are sure that the Islamic center in NYC is being built as a monument to the al qaida 'victory' of bringing down theTwin Towers. Without evidence. When everything on the site says the opposite. When it turns our the imam is Sufi, who are despised and persecuted by the Suni and Shiite radicals in the mid-east.

          They don't neeed evidence to persecute Moslems in America - but hey demand it before you can even make the suggestion of religious bigotry by SOME christians in the USA. The underlying idea is that ALL Muslims are automatically guilty and ALL Christians are absolved. BULL!!!

        2. Jim Hunter profile image60
          Jim Hunterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Maybe it was people who just don't like Muslims.

          People other than Christians hate Muslims.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Are you familiar with the people in Murfreesboro Tennessee, Jim?  It was a notch on the Bible belt the last time I was there!

            1. Jim Hunter profile image60
              Jim Hunterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Not familiar with it at all.

              I just don't believe that Christians are the only ones who could have possibly done this.

              I don't think you think that either.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                No, I know there are other possible explanations for the arson, but with all of the hoopla over the "ground zero" mosque it tends to favor it being a hate crime!  I certainly hope that isn't the case!

                1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
                  weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Your argument is based upon the notion that Christians are emotionally unstable, immature, prone to violence juveniles.   

                  Thanks for demonstrating in clear language your prejudices and bigotry.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Your opinion of what my argument is based upon is just that, merely your opinion!  But some christians are emotionally unstable, just like some non-christians! 

                    If you think all christians are responsible adults then you must live in fantasy land.  Just ask the victims of the Salem Witch trials  Oh that's right, they cannot answer because they were murdered by ignorant superstitious christians.

                    I live in the bible belt dude!  Many of these folks are led around by the nose by evangelical preachers!  Just like they always have been.  I'm not saying all are like this but there are enough of them to go around!

                    Thanks for demonstrating your opinion is as ill informed as ever!

        3. weholdthesetruths profile image61
          weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          How could I possibly 'tell" you anything until the facts are known?

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            You cannot think of a reason or reasons this might have happened?  I didn't ask for you to psychically furnish the answer!

            1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
              weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You did not ask me to speculate.   You asked me to tell you the reasons, and the reasons are completely unknown to the public at this time.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                "Let's hear your reasoning as to why this was done!"


                So you took "reasoning" as asking for a definite answer?  No, you knew what I was asking and didn't care to answer!  Simple as that!

                1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
                  weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Nonsense.    You asked me to explain to you the reasoning for it.    That is posted RIGHT ABOVE HERE, you can't backtrack now.   How could I possibly tell you anything factual if nobody knows even who did it?   If it was a group of Kurds, speculation of motive may have some foundation.  But we have no idea whatsoever who did it, so, there is NO possible way I'm going to be able to explain any reasoning used to do it.   

                  Even if we did know who did it and had them give some reason,  my ability to explain their thinking or reasoning is still... all but non existent.   Your question was, plainly, absurd.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I plainly asked you to speculate on alternative reasons for the arson!  But never mind, I really do not care for your opinions anyway!  You have already shown your inability to do anything but criticize those who do not agree with you!  What a joke!

    2. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Doug, I have to go with wehold this time.  Playground equipment at a nearby school under construction was recently torched here.  It wasn't the right wing religious group protesting evolution in schools, it wasn't the tax free group seeing their taxes go up and it wasn't even the home-school group.  It was a bunch of kids setting off fireworks on the equipment, not realizing what would happen.

      I've seen a backhoe driven into a swimming pool, had empty pipes filled with concrete and someone once went through a building poking holes into new sheetrock walls.  None was terrorism - it was all simply vandalism.

      You are jumping to conclusions at this point.  If it happens again and again, all at mosque sites, you would have a point and a very good one.  At this time, though, you come across as Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity drawing conclusions from insufficient data and blowing it out of proportion.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, but aren't you assuming if kids did it they had no knowledge of the current feelings of their parents?  We are talking the bible belt here!  The kids are affected by their parent's talk too!

        I live even deeper in the belt than where this took place.  I hear supposedly upstanding citizens of the community discussing what should be done to the Muslims who would dare to erect a community center close to the 911 site.  Yes mere unfounded speculation!

      2. Doug Hughes profile image60
        Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        wilderness - This was no surprise to me. Though the MSM has not picked up on what's happening in TN, I have been folloing it through blogs for weeks. The GOP candidate  and the teabagger candidate have racheted up the anti-mosque rhetoric  in a quest for wingnut votes - so all of TN is aware of the mosque and  a lot of whackjobs are looking for some way to circumvent the 1st Amendment..

        This is the result of right-wing nuts wtirring up religious hatred and resentment for votes in an election year. If that wasn't true, it wouln't have taken 10 years to develop. I'm not saying either the GOP candidate or the teabagger was directly involved - they just provided the matches.

  4. IzzyM profile image89
    IzzyMposted 7 years ago

    I reckon Americans who think it is a good thing to have a mosque at Ground Zero have flipped and lost the plot. Don't you know the rest of the world is laughing at you! It is the most mental thing I have ever heard of in my life!
    OK the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and not terrorists, but those among them that are will flock to this mosque to laugh at you even more, and probably plot more horrific acts against you.
    I spent the day of September 11 online, comforting children in an AOL conference room, who were scared witless that their mom/dad weren't going to arrive home that day. Kids whose mom/dad worked in Manhatten. (the lines of communication were broken at that time, if you remember) Eventually I had to leave to go to work myself. I was scared witless everytime I passed a tall building. Half a world away and we were all terrified that we could be next.
    How short some of your memory's are! How forgiving you are! Geez a break!

    1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
      weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      This whole controversy is mostly a matter of "knowing" vs "not knowing" the contexts to all of it.   I wrote a hub about it

      http://hubpages.com/hub/Whats-this-At-ground-zero

      Are there people who, in the name of Islam or Allah, plan, devise schemes, and even carry out schemes to kill anonymous Americans?   The answer is yes.  And, countless Jihad sites,  the clerics and scholars and Mullahs and Imams who are in the Islamic states agree with the actions and call for it.   And none oppose.   Why?  Because to oppose means a Fatwa calling for your death - Islam is owned and controlled by those very people.   But Islam is not just a religion.   In fact, the spiritual aspects of Islam are nearly ignored by all those people.  They have become corrupted by power and control, and are far less about spiritual renewal and peace in the soul, than they are about power, control, and the exercise of authority.   

      So where does that leave US?   Inviting them to establish institutions on OUR shores?   Monumentally stupid.   Is that hate speech?   Not at all, it's the most rational and logical conclusion anyone could make.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        So even if they or their parents were born here, it is still YOUR shores?  This explains your attitude of wanting to decide what is right, not only for yourself, but for other American citizens!  Too bad!  Each of us have just as much right to be here as you do!  Not more, but just as much!  I suggest you get used to it!

        And promoting your own hubs on this forum is strongly discouraged!

        1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
          weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It's too bad you're unwilling to read what I wrote and comment on that, instead of just trying to do a little propagandizing.

      2. Doug Hughes profile image60
        Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;.."

        That's the First Amendment of the Constitution - and the first phrase guarantees freedom of religon. So  your opinion  expresses the most un-American of ideas. Any attempt to act on it by any level of govenment would be unconstitutional. An act by individuals to intimidate individuals for thier beliefs is quite probably a felony.

        If you decide to act on your bigotry with an act of violence - you don't want me on the jury, But I hearily support your right of free speech - even expressing stupid bigotry.

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image79
          Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          no, the first phrase guarantees that "CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

          ... y'know, because that's what it says.

          States can still pass laws respecting religion - although New York can't, its constitution outlawed this some time back. Cities could, too, so long as it doesn't interfere with the state constitution.

          And before you say "the supreme court says...", I don't care. That's not what the Constitution says. If we just do what the Supreme Court says, we'll get "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others".

      3. Evan G Rogers profile image79
        Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Weholdthesetruths, I was agreeing with you a bunch elsewhere, but here I must disagree.

        I don't care what Muslims do, or how evil they might be.

        The fact is that the AMERICAN laws in this situation allow the building of this Mosque. The US Constitution's first and tenth amendment make it a state issue, and the New York constitution make outlawing the building illegal.

        1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
          weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I think when faced with a logical conflict, you're punting.   Islam is not just a religion.  It is an ideology that is strictly authoritarian in nature, one that is self referential in nature (it defines itself, with "it" being the clerics, etc, in power), and comes with it's own version of history, logic, economics, and rules governing thinking.    But it includes the parts of our lives we call "religion".   

          You can't simply ignore that countless websites,  groups, authorities, and spokespeople for Islam call and have called for the killing of Americans, specific Americans, for attacks to harm the country and people, etc.   And these go unsilenced and unrebuked, as they speak in the name of Islam, and do so with authority.   

          You cannot simply pretend this is "just a religion" when it is not.   Further, the adherents of Islam believe it is perfectly ok to kill, lie, steal, commit subterfuge, commit ANY act to advance the cause of Islam.   It's a doctrine, for pity's sakes.

          You offer no means of coping with this, other than just burying your head in the sand.   Millions refuse to do that, and are ( some with understanding like me, some are just emotional, and some are just prejudiced ) refusing to simply accept the encroachment.   

          I don't particularly care if someone prays to Allah, lives their personal life by the teachings of Islam.   It's wrong, but I have animosity toward them, just as I hold no animosity towards Baptists, Catholics or Mormons.   

          But when the organized aspects of Islam, which are funded by and sponsored by the radicals that adhere to the things we cannot accept, try to build "centers" here...   We  better look at it not just once, but 50 times, before we invite what has proven to be violent and repressive elsewhere.

    2. Doug Hughes profile image60
      Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think you are the first to misread the post. This happened in a town in Tennessee where there's a large population of Kurds.  I suppose that to a Moslem - Catholics, Mormons and Baptists are interchangable.   

      The Kurds were refugees from Sadam Hussain and were relocated there by the US.  Educate yourself a little before you pass judgement.

      http://www.mtsu.edu/one/smurat.shtml

      Regarding radical Islmaics laughing - they are. As we abandon Freedom of Religion and tolerance, they can rejoice that they DID succeed on 911 - they did force the US to take a role opposite all Islam - pushed the US into a religous war which they hope will endure for decades. When we abandon our principles - that's when THEY WIN!

      1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
        weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        You have it wrong.   They dont' want a centuries long war with us.   No, quite the opposite, they believe we are afraid, weak and weak-willed, and that to avoid conflict, we'll allow them to eventually establish sharia law here, and eventually to subjugate all of us to sharia law.   

        You do NOT want Sharia law here.   Every nation subject to it is a nightmare of violence, repression, poverty, and hopelessness.

  5. CkhoffmanK profile image60
    CkhoffmanKposted 7 years ago

    This is all so very sad.

    What happened to our nation? We were built on fundamentals of tolerance, acceptance and we are not to persecute others.

    The ignorance of this place boggles my mind.

    1. luvpassion profile image60
      luvpassionposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Haven't you heard were now for profit and corruption. Capital gain and repression. smile

  6. I am DB Cooper profile image67
    I am DB Cooperposted 7 years ago

    This absolutely is the very definition of domestic terrorism. People who are against the mosque expansion project are trying to terrorize everyone who is for it. Did anyone happen to catch the people involved in this struggle last week on The Daily Show? The ignorance of the woman who was a leader of the opposition was astounding. Even sitting there in front of the camera being interviewed by a man from The Daily Show who told her he was a Muslim she had trouble hiding her bigotry.

    1. luvpassion profile image60
      luvpassionposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Oh bigotry...from wikipideia A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.

      Doesen't everyone fall in this catagory in one way or another? Even if its not against race or religion...perhaps north from south, gender, age..weather a person likes a different sports team, a particular car or food. A Nationality I see it all the time in the Military, the pilots and knuckledraggers, the officers against the enlisted men. How does one overcome it...I think its impossible.

      1. Doug Hughes profile image60
        Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        No one is suggesting thatt eh human race will suddenly become pure-of-heart.  Taking gasoling and pouring it over construction equipment and torching the gear is an act of will - not an involuntary reflex. You can decide not to act on a bias or prejudice.

        1. luvpassion profile image60
          luvpassionposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Isn't it bias or prejudice that makes you assume (no offense) it was bias or prejudice that this act was done without further evidence?

          Perhaps the owner of the equipment did just want the insurance money. wink

          1. Jeff Berndt profile image87
            Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Indeed.

            It looks like it was done by folks who don't like the idea of a mosque in their neighborhood.

            But you know what? It also looks like your standard insurance fraud.

            And it also looks like random vandalism/kids lighting fires for kicks.

            In the current climate of paranoia, it's easy to grab on to any crime and assume that it was done by "them" because "they" hate the victims.

            If, for example, somebody beat me up and took my wallet, it might be because he hates straight white guys* and I happen to be a straight white guy in the wrong place at the wrong time, or it might just be that he's a thief and wanted my wallet.

            In fact, I remember a news story from some time ago (can't remember the details just now, sorry) where a mugger (in NYC, I think) beat the bejeezus out of a gay guy and took his wallet. They caught the mugger and charged him with not only the mugging but the hate crime of beating up the victim just because he was gay. Perversely, the single hate crime carried a harsher penalty than multiple muggings. That may be why the mugger copped to several other muggings that he hadn't been caught for, saying something like, "Hey, I didn't even know the guy was gay. That's just the way I go about mugging people."

            Priceless.

  7. Evan G Rogers profile image79
    Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago

    I have no problem whatsoever with building anything near ground zero.
    ...

    ... But why the hell do the owners of that property still want to build a mosque there? "Accidents" are going to be happening to it almost ever month!! i don't approve of these "accidents", but they WILL happen!

    1. Doug Hughes profile image60
      Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      MURFREESBORO, Tenn. is about 1000 miles from NYC. There's a large community of Kurds living there, many fled Sadam Hussain many years before 911.

      1. Evan G Rogers profile image79
        Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        lol, my mistake.

        1. Doug Hughes profile image60
          Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          The title of the post led a lot of people down the wrong path, because they figured I was still writing on the NYC center. 

          The point I wanted to make - and a lot of folks missed - is that kooks who do NOT represent mainstream America are trying harass ALL Muslims. It's not about Ground Zero or respect for those who died on Sept 11.  It's about getting popular support for bigotry and religous hatred.

          This is one subject we agree on, Evan. I'm not preaching to you.

          1. Evan G Rogers profile image79
            Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I must admit, I saw "mosque" and "NYC" ... and didn't bother reading further

          2. profile image60
            C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            You can try and make this about "Religous Freedom". To you maybe that's all there is to it. You are probably correct that the violence is NOT mainstream. However opposition to the Mosque in NY is very mainstream.
            The muslim folks in Murpheesboro did not flee, they were brought. The fed set up sanctuary sites in several states. Tennessee being one. Remember the Miami riots in the 70's? This is nothing new. The fed takes refugees and dumps them on the doorstep of some unsuspecting state/city  The rest of the country calls them bigots when it all goes to hell in a hand basket.
            I don't think people would be having nearly as much heart burn with this IF immigrants would assimilate. I understand that this is a two way street. The immigrant needs to feel welcomed by US. In turn WE need the immigrant to assimilate. Thats the problem. There are three major groups who are immigrating to this country and NOT assimilating to OUR culture. One of the three groups is being connected in the minds of American's to the worst terrorist event in recent history. This by it's very nature is divisive.

            1. Doug Hughes profile image60
              Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              On what basis do you say they are not assimilating? Because they aren't Baptists?  Read this and then explain how they aren't assimilating.

              http://www.mtsu.edu/one/smurat.shtml

              What''s DIVISIVE is the GOP and teabaggers making ALL members of a minorityreligion terrorists in the minds of voters to scare a few more idiots into selecting the (R) candidate.  This is cheap fearmongering and some flakes don't realize it's all a GOP game - they are conductiong domestic terrorisim against innocent people.

              1. ahorseback profile image47
                ahorsebackposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Wow domestic terrorism by the GOP.  look out everyone , don't  forget to check our boxcutters at the mosque doors.

              2. profile image60
                C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Baptist? That would be a pretty narrow view. No. There are three ways that immigrant assimilation is typically measured: Economic, Civic and Culture. The Government provides great assistance for the first two. The third is left to the immigrant and the community. That is where I believe the problem is. Government cant provide the solution here.

    2. Jeff Berndt profile image87
      Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      "But why the hell do the owners of that property still want to build a mosque there? "Accidents" are going to be happening to it almost ever month!! i don't approve of these "accidents", but they WILL happen!"

      Evan, they're not businesspeople; they're not building a store. It's not a business decision. People make all kinds of choices that seem to be against their own interests when religion is involved. (There's a discussion about matryrdom in the religious forums that might be relevant...)

      1. seanorjohn profile image82
        seanorjohnposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Jeff, as I understand it, no one is building a mosque. The building is a community centre with a swimming pool, basketball court, restaurant and prayer room. It will have a memorial plaque to the victims of 9/11 and is three blocks away from ground Zero.It is open to all, not just muslims.

        1. Jeff Berndt profile image87
          Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, all of that's true, but the builders of the center are (I understand) building it because of their faith, to build bridges between Muslims and non-Muslims. They aren't doing it (primarily) to turn a profit.

  8. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

    This is just as much about religious sensitivity as it is about  religious freedoms , Will you go to Bagdad to build a Latter Day Saints church next to the bombed out mosque, No! You would  not! Perhaps muslims might learn a lesson of being sensitive to other cultures and religions , near ground zero, and aren't there already 200 mosques in new york ?

    1. Doug Hughes profile image60
      Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      WOW! I know you are parroting what you hear from Glen Beck, but listen to what you just said!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The USA  invented Freedom of Religion as a standard. And you think the US should abandon the Constitution and adopt the rules and customs of a repressive nation to punish Americans of a minority religion for the actions of other people they are not remotely connected with???

      That's about as smart as gang-raping a nun to punish the Catholic church for the actions of a pedophile priest.  That might make you feel good, but it doesn't address the problem.

      Get a grip on the islamaphobia! These are AMERICANS and they have a right to practice thier religion

      1. ahorseback profile image47
        ahorsebackposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        You see this is the thing wih the  left,   Always label with the same rhetoric, if Beck said this ,good for him,  he agrees with  the majority of Americans . Your gang raping comment is just plain stupid man, but whatever.  This is the thing ,remember "Majority " oppinion , this is what liberal intellectuals can't handle!  Totalitarion rules in political correctness
        it always has.

      2. profile image60
        C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        "Being active in the Nashville Kurdish community, I was attracted to the wide diversity. I wanted to go to a school that was accepting of my culture, as well as others’."


        "The Nashville area is home to more than 12,000 Kurds and has developed a community rich in our native culture. MTSU has embraced our culture and, to me, it seemed natural to become a Blue Raider. My brother and several of our friends also attend classes here and we helped to found the Kurdish Student Association (KSA)."

        "That is one of the goals of the KSA – to bring knowledge to the forefront. To that end, we are also conducting a series of classes on campus to help inform and instruct others. Another goal is to recruit more Kurdish students to MTSU. Because we are the first school in Tennessee to have Kurdish classes, it is only natural that Kurds would be attracted to a campus where people understand the language and culture of our home. The KSA is also planning to create a documentary to show to high school students who are interested in MTSU and may not have any campus connection. We are also linked to the greater Nashville Kurdish community through the web site"


        The focus is on someone else accepting HIS NATIVE CULTURE. Not him accepting US Culture. This gives the community the impression they are being "invaded" this brings out the worst in society....

      3. weholdthesetruths profile image61
        weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Which part of Islam do you want them to practice?   The part about beating his wife if she displeases him?

    2. Evan G Rogers profile image79
      Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      the argument "aren't there already 200 mosques in New York already"? doesn't really hold much sway with me...

      http://www.nyc.com/new-york-city/churches.aspx

      There are over 6500 churches (not christian specific) in New York.... city.

      Yeah, you read that right.

      Anyway, if some guy thinks that investing his money in a mosque will make a profit (via helping other people), then let the guy do it.

      1. ahorseback profile image47
        ahorsebackposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Right ! profit in a religious center , sounds cool ,I want one too.

        1. Jeff Berndt profile image87
          Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          "Not-for-profit" does not mean "unprofitable."

    3. Jeff Berndt profile image87
      Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      "Will you go to Bagdad to build a Latter Day Saints church next to the bombed out mosque, No! You would  not!"

      NO, I would NOT!

      But I'm also not a member of the LDS church. tongue

  9. VENUGOPAL SIVAGNA profile image59
    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 7 years ago

    We can dwell in the Antarctic, and in the Arctic, braving the cold and remain on the icy grounds with some precautions.... and inside an igloo, life will be happier. We can live on the high seas on a ship and in an island in the centre of Pacific.

    But you cant live near an inferno....  burning forests and near a volcano... 

    Living near 6500 churches is different.
    Living near a single mosque, if not 200, is different.

    1. Doug Hughes profile image60
      Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You've been taking lessons from Captain America in writing  cryptic comments. Impressive.

  10. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

    Does it bother anyone that the promoter of the proposed mosque is paid by governments  and tax dollars for his "speading the tolerance of Islam?"

    1. Jeff Berndt profile image87
      Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Which government? Whose tax dollars? Got specifics? With, y'know, sources?
      And are you talking about the one in Murfreesboro or in NYC? 'Cos there's a bit of a muddle on this thread...smile

      1. ahorseback profile image47
        ahorsebackposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Us and Un tax dollars as an envoy  to the middle east  as reported on cnn news, the new york city proposed mosque, and what about separation of church and state ? Or is that just for christianity?

        1. Jeff Berndt profile image87
          Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Okay, I'm going to take your question seriously, and try to get it clear what exactly you're asking/saying before I try to answer.

          You're saying that according to CNN, the promoter of the proposed mosque in NYC is being paid by the US government (and the UN?) to do...what, exactly?

          1. Reality Bytes profile image91
            Reality Bytesposted 7 years ago in reply to this
            1. Jeff Berndt profile image87
              Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              "State Department spokesman Mark Toner says Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has completed a Persian Gulf trip that was intended to promote religious tolerance."

              Okay, he's being paid by the State Department to promote religious tolerance in the Persian gulf.

              And this is bad because...?

              1. profile image60
                C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Shouldn't he be doing that here? I mean a Muslim going to predominately Muslim countries preaching tolerance...what does that achieve? Is he infaltrating terrorist organizations and talking them out of being terrorist? Don't you see how the  right would see this as a State funded Religious fund raiser?

                I'ts easy for me to tell you I wll give you a million dollars if I ever have it....when I don't have it to give or have any prospects of getting it.

                1. Jeff Berndt profile image87
                  Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  "Shouldn't he be doing that here?"
                  He is He's working on a community center in NYC. But for some reason, certain people seem to disapprove. Crazy, right?

                  "I mean a Muslim going to predominately Muslim countries preaching tolerance...what does that achieve?" Maybe the folks over there would listen to a fellow Muslim who tells them to be nice to people of other faiths, when they might not pay much attention to someone who isn't also a Muslim? The messenger can matter almost as much as the message.

                  "Don't you see how the  right would see this as a State funded Religious fund raiser?"
                  Explain the logic that leads to that conclusion.

                  "I'ts easy for me to tell you I wll give you a million dollars if I ever have it....when I don't have it to give or have any prospects of getting it."
                  Um...come again?

                  1. profile image60
                    C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    "He is He's working on a community center in NYC. But for some reason, certain people seem to disapprove. Crazy, right?"

                    Well, is it that simple? Is his work on project 51 directly related to his state funded travel? Is he conducting fund raising while serving as a Government Envoy? This to me would be a huge conflict of interest for our secular government.

                    The fact that some people disaprove is crazy? Hardly, I think its the norm. Very seldom do large numbers of people agree on anything. Why they disagree is the more important issue. I think some believe that all opposition or even most of it is based on bigotry/hate. Whith that I disagree. I believe it's based on fear. Is that fear irrational? Maybe, but there are lots of causes for this irrational fear. Those fears should be addressed.
                    The money for instance. Where is it coming from? How do we find out? Do we get the government involved, investigating religious organizations? Maybe, but isn't that a slipery slope? YES.

              2. Reality Bytes profile image91
                Reality Bytesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I did not say any opinion at all.  I merely provided the source you requested.  smile

        2. Jim Hunter profile image60
          Jim Hunterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It is kinda strange that the left who hate religion constantly defend Muslims.

          Think maybe there is a reason for that?

          1. Abecedarian profile image79
            Abecedarianposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.  The Left DO NOT hate religion. The left defends the right of religion, we are not hypocrits who believe that only "our" religion is the "right" one. 

            Just like last night while watching the News, a right wing nut case comes on and goes on about stopping the "terrorists" from building and praying in Mosques in Murfreesboro. She said it isn't about religion, it's about their spouting hate.  HOW QUICKLY SHE HAS FORGOTTEN about Reverand Anderson, who not to long ago WAS SPOUTING CHRISTIAN HATE towards our president. Asking his members to pray for Obama's death. How Christian of them.

            1. profile image60
              C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              bringing up radical religious fanatics is not productive...You say Reverand Anderson, I say Reverand Wright.....

            2. Jim Hunter profile image60
              Jim Hunterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              "That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.  The Left DO NOT hate religion. The left defends the right of religion, we are not hypocrits who believe that only "our" religion is the "right" one."

              My apologies, I was unaware that the left was so tolerant of religion and religious views.

              I must have missed all of their support for Christian symbols such as nativity scenes, etc. roll

              1. Doug Hughes profile image60
                Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                While my view may or may not be representative of most liberals - I heartily support the display of Christian symbols like the Nativity or 10 Commandments on Church property - or private property. This is a secular democracy and those symbols are an inappropriate implied endorsement of a particular religious philosphy on Public land.

                I think the SCOTUS has ruled that way.

  11. Randy Godwin profile image92
    Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago

    "Every nation subject to it is a nightmare of violence, repression, poverty, and hopelessness."

    Sounds like Dubyas reign!  LOL!

    1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
      weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Gads.   Your ignorance is so vast it boggles the mind.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Compared to your vast intelligence?   LOLOLOL!  You gotta be from Texas!

        1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
          weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It takes no vast intelligence, only minimal intelligence to know that we suffered minimal violence, no repression and negligible poverty while Bush was president.  BTW, presidents do not "reign".    Kings do.

          The fact that you would even attempt to compare the US to, say, Iran, can only come from a vast pit of ignorance.

  12. mikelong profile image75
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    "Which part of Islam do you want them to practice?   The part about beating his wife if she displeases him?"

    Which part of Islam are you preaching "we hold these truths"?

    If we really want to use our brain housing units we should look at the hypocrisy of your statements...and look at the patriachal complex of Christianity....and its longstanding support of womens rights.....right?

    Ridiculous...


    Keep pushing the Muslim "boogeyman"....and we'll keep seeing your projection in the mirror...

    1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
      weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      What on earth are you talking about?   Maybe I should ask, do you actually KNOW anything about Islam, Shariah law, or anything else?   

      What on earth is a "patriarchal complex of Christianity"?   I haven't the faintest idea what you're babbling on about.

      1. Doug Hughes profile image60
        Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        You don't know much about Islam, either. You take the most radical concepts of the most radical segments of  Muslim  extremists and try to sell the lie that that this represents moderate Muslims in America, who are well-integrated into mainstream America for the most part.

        It's worked well in the past when America was persecuting Native Americans, Japanese, Chinese and African-Americans. Probably it will work again, but no matter how popular, a lie is still a lie.

        1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
          weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It isn't a lie.  Why on earth would I lie?   What have I to gain by lying?  The doctrines of Islam are published broadly.   The conditions are under which ALL Islamic nations live are known.   How you could argue that the reality of how Islam is, in the places where Islam is allowed to be the governing order, is not what it is, is beyond me.   

          Honor killings are still done.   The treatment of women as property, not equal human beings is NORMAL behavior in Islam.   Islam is what ISLAM DOES, and we see how it is where a state is "islamic".   I used to be stupid and thought those were the radicals.  No, those are THE ISLAM that exists, and the places in the world where law prohibits the imposition of Shariah law, are the only places in the world where the violent, repressive, and controlling aspects are limited. 

          It is no lie.  The honor killings, the stonings, the retribution and murders sanctioned by Islam are REAL.   Islam is what it does when it is allowed to express itself.   Name for me ONE Islamic country that has religious freedom and none of the things you c all "radical".   It doesn't exist.   Ergo, YOUR argument is the lie.

          1. Doug Hughes profile image60
            Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I amnot sure what country (or plannet) you live on, but I live in and was talking about the USA. There are more than 2 million Moslems living in the USA.  Where are the massive numbers of beheadings and stonings and honor killings you speak of a mainstream Islam in the USA?????

            Back up your hate with facts! Yes, you can find a case where some hothead Islamic in the USA hit his wife and got arrested - you can find Baptists and Mormons guilty of the same thing. I'm talking about ''violent, repressive and controlling" SHOW  ME THAT IN THE US!

            If I called your opinions what I think they are, I'd be banned from Hubpages - but use your imagination.

  13. mikelong profile image75
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    I don't call this a "white power" hatred of Christianity...

    http://www.kukluxklan.info/KKK.dinner.praying2-x.jpg

    1. Jeff Berndt profile image87
      Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Dude, of course it is! They're not praying together. They're obviously having a seance!

      "A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads."
      Leviticus 20:27

      tongue

      1. mikelong profile image75
        mikelongposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        They are praying before they eat....

        This is quite clear...

        1. Jeff Berndt profile image87
          Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          No, man, that rectangular shape under the soup tureen is so obviously a ouija board. They're trying to summon up a spirit! That's why the guy facing us in dressed all in black: Satan's color! and the other two are dressed as ghosts, to make the spirits they're trying to summon feel more comfortable---


          Okay I can't keep this up any longer, it's making my head hurt. tongue

          Of course they're praying.

  14. mikelong profile image75
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    Nor this...   And you can buy such imagery on t-shirts from "christian books and things" online....

    http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/2009/06/KlanKidsKare.jpg

  15. profile image53
    hero518168posted 7 years ago

    if you interest in rc helicopter .pls contact with me

  16. profile image55
    writerpro18posted 7 years ago

    Technical the building of a mosque is put as the first amendment right but if construction of one were to happen i presume that the mosque would be subject to multiple counts of vandalism

  17. mikelong profile image75
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    "Sharia law..sharia law"....Thanks "Truth" for continuing the "all Muslims are the same" diatribe...

    I suppose I should look at the Bible and the precedent set in Christian societies, like Spain (which only just opened up to freedom of religion in the past 30 or so years), to stereotype Christians...

    Right?

  18. mikelong profile image75
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    Jeff, you can come up with whatever concocted idea you want...but the picture itself is labeled "kkk dinner prayer" and is found at:

    http://www.kukluxklan.info/KKK.prisoner … t.hate.htm

    So, the next time that you decide to tell someone "what something is", it is best to make sure that they already don't know what "it" is....

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      fa·ce·tious/fəˈsēSHəs/
      Adjective: Treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant

  19. mikelong profile image75
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    Yeah....reading to fast...and missing the last line....

    Sorry about that.

 
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