Do you support Obama's statement about Ground Zero Mosque?

1. 61

   Liberian1847posted 14 years ago

   Even though I'm not Muslim however, I can't help but wonder if it is fair to hold all Muslims accountable for the deeds of other Muslims ( especially those extremist groups). Would'nt it be absurd to blame every living White man for the enslavement of Blacks? Or, do you call every German a "Jew Killer"? What happened to the notion of America being the leader of the Free World? What examples we hope lay forth for Children's children? True this is a Kick-ass country and no one messes with us, but what do u think......hold each man accountable for his own actions? Do you think Obama's being insensitive by voicing his support for building a mosque a block away from Ground Zero,  or he's just being a leader of democracy and freedom for all?

   replyreport
   1. 67

      steve8millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yes I support the Mosque. So does everyone I know. The misconception was that it was going to be on top of ground zero. However that is not the case. It is a far 2 New York city blocks. I made a hub on the subject entitled "Allowing The Mosque At Ground Zero"

      replyreport
      1. 66

         Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Let me make sure I understand this correctly. 
         
         You have made a hub about the misconception of a mosque being built at ground zero.  great subject
         
         
         You titled it  "Allowing The Mosque At Ground Zero"?

         replyreport
         1. 60

            Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I understand the confusion.

            replyreport
   2. 62

      pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      i agree with obama's statement about religious freedom..usa is not saudi arabia and closed minded nation...but i dont think it is good gesture to build mosque so near when it can be built anywhere else too...

      replyreport
   3. 0

      shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      we live in a multi cultural world and what better a gesture to the muslim world, but to do this as a symbol - actions speak lounder than words.  In order to achieve peace we need understanding and what comes with understanding?  Tolerance.  It only takes one person to hand out the olive branch and it takes the other to accept it.  Without the olive branch, there is no way forward. 
      
      We need unity in the world and it is the bigger person who offers the hand of friendship x

      replyreport
2. 60

   lightning johnposted 14 years ago

   Well yes we are supposed to be a nation with the liberty to believe in any kind of God that we dream up, but what is happening right now is a complete manipulation of our own judical rules.
   One question is, would we be allowed to build a american cultured church at a similar location in their country?
   Like after a horrific attack as the world trade center buildings?

   replyreport
   1. 61

      Liberian1847posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for the reply, but again we should ask ourselves : what is American culture, and what is an American church? Is this country still the melting pot.....if so, then do we have a single culture that we can point at as "authentic American"?

      replyreport
   2. 61

      Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      With respect, I have no idea what you are talking about.  What twisting of judicial rules?  These are Americans, exercising their private property rights and exercising their constitutional right to worship as they please, building a cultural center on land that they own.  The building is over two blocks away from Ground Zero and around a corner.  This isn't even a sensitivity issue.  It was a local issue that had nothing to do with Ground Zero until a group of commentators (and later politicians) thought they would gain political mileage by spreading misinformation.  What difference does it make how many churches you can build in Saudi Arabia?  This isn't Saudi Arabia and our constitution and our society does not follow Saudi Arabia as an example for anything frankly.  Stop making this some kind of religious war of us against them.  You are trying to persecute the 7 million muslims that live in this country for the acts of a handful of foreign extremists.  And your suggestion that this is a twisting of "judicial rules" shows how little you understand the issue.  No rules have been twisted and no courts have been involved.

      replyreport
   3. 57

      stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      lightning johnposted 3 hours ago
      
      "Well yes we are supposed to be a nation with the liberty to believe in any kind of God that we dream up,"
      
      Supposed to be guided by the US Constitution.
      
      
      "but what is happening right now is a complete manipulation of our own judical rules."
      
      So, the Constitution only applies when its convenient?  Then its totally worthless and we have mob rule.  Tomorrow said mob could have you in their cross-hairs.  In which case you can't whine.
      
      
      "One question is, would we be allowed to build a american cultured church at a similar location in their country?"
      
      Irrelevant, immaterial, and a total red herring.  The US Constitution does not apply in other countries.
      
      
      Like after a horrific attack as the world trade center buildings?
      
      So, the US Constitution is now toilet paper.
      
      The whole thing is a non-issue whipped up by Republican Liars for Jesus [Seig Heil].  You have to love fear as it really fills their coffers.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         "One question is, would we be allowed to build a american cultured church at a similar location in their country?"
         
         "Irrelevant, immaterial, and a total red herring.  The US Constitution does not apply in other countries."
         
         The red herring is the comment that the Constitution does not apply in other countries.
         
         Nobody said it did, he asked whether a church would be allowed to be built.
         
         Would it?

         replyreport
         1. 61

            Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No, actually, what you label as a red herring is the only relevant question.  Whether a church could be built in Saudi Arabia is completely irrelevant to whether muslims can build mosques in America.  The distinction is the Constitution.  We don't live in a Christian theocracy, at least not yet.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Look, a building where Muslims worship and pray, but its not a mosque.

               replyreport
               1. 61

                  Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  No its not.  There are also jewish cultural centers that have space reserved for prayer.  They are not synagogues.  In fact the actual site was modeled after a NY Jewish cultural center.  I provided you a link to an article describing it but you did not read it.

                  replyreport
                  1. 60

                     Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     How do you know what I read or didn't read?
                     
                     If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a cultural center, where Muslims pray but its not a mosque.

                     replyreport
                     1. 61

                        Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        You have bragged in the past about not reading posts before responding to them, or reading only one sentence of them.  You troll the forums, making one sentence quips, often repeating the same thing over and over again.  You had like 5 1-sentence quips that you couldn't understand how i could call a place that was a center with space devoted to worship (and space devoted to recreational activities, a swimming pool, etc.), anything other than a mosque.  I already provided you that answer, and a link to an informative article.  I can either conclude that you didn't read it, that you read it but did not understand it, or that you are deliberately trolling.  Sorry for giving you the benefit of the doubt.

                        replyreport
                        1. 60

                           Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           You can conclude anything you like it doesn't matter to me.
                           
                           So the mosque will contain a swimming pool and space for recreational activities.
                           
                           Sounds like the church I grew up going to, except we had softball fields.
                           
                           Will the Imam of the mosque go swimming or is that against sharia law?

                           replyreport
         2. 57

            stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            The question about building a church in another country *is* the red herring.  Such a question has no bearing on whether, in this case, a cultural centre/mosque can be built.
            
            Can such be built in this country?  Certainly, the US Constitution guarantees it.  Does it matter where the centre is located?  No.

            replyreport
      2. 60

         Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Oh yeah, is the governor of New York or Harry Reid "Republican Liars"?
         
         Just wondering.

         replyreport
         1. 57

            stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You mean just trolling.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Says the man with no hubs.

               replyreport
3. 60

   KFlippinposted 14 years ago

   I find it interesting that you posted your topic under "Bias and Hate".  This issue has nothing to do with bias and hate no matter how hard the media or anyone else tries to spin this otherwise, it has to do with what is honorable and just in America - the leader of the Free World. 
   
   I happen to find much of what I know of the Muslim faith quite interesting and beautiful, particularly in a historical perspective, and I respect the Muslim faiths that are not now wholly usurped and driven by hate and violence.  I don't respect the dis-respecting of others in the name of judicial 'respect'.

   replyreport
   1. 61

      Liberian1847posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Tnx for the response. I sub-posted  this topic under bias and hate because I've read others commentary on the subject at various news websites.......and some of the things they were writing were quiet interesting and very much pointing to what most people consider hate, bias, social and religious injustice on the part of hard core conservative Americans.

      replyreport
4. 0

   sandra rinckposted 14 years ago

   Yes.

   replyreport
   1. 60

      Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      No.

      replyreport
5. 60

   Jim Hunterposted 14 years ago

   Hamas is sure happy its going to be built there.
   
   I wonder why?
   
   http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manh … ZMTDz0VVPI

   replyreport
   1. 61

      Liberian1847posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well this doesn't come as a surprise considering the fact this ( according to some) signals  a victory for Islam ( the name in which extremists hurt others). Moreover, radical Islamic groups wouldn't be rejoicing if Americans were united in there belief and interpretation of religious freedom. They see us devided ....this fuel their need to boast and brag!

      replyreport
      1. 60

         Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I am all for freedom of religion but that is not what this is about.
         
         The liberals keep telling us this isn't a mosque but rather a community center, so what does religion have to do with it?
         
         We know there will be a mosque there, we know it will be a tourists attraction for Muslims from all over the world just as the mosque in Germany where the plans for the 9/11 attacks were drawn up was until the German government closed it down.
         
         Its obvious why they want to build it there.

         replyreport
         1. 57

            stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            RE: Mr. Hunters screed;
            
            It is exactly about freedom of religion and/or Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms. 
            
            No, it is people are indicating it isn't a mosque but a community center.  Whether a portion or all of it later becomes a mosque is irrelevant and immaterial.  Please keep in mind that 'poisoning the well' is a surrender of the position you hold.
            
            It may be an attraction for Muslims from all over the world.  It may also be open for anyone who wishes to enter.  If not, that's fine as it is private property.
            
            Thank you, Mr. Hunter for demonstrating your bigotry, hypocrisy, and ignorance in a world-wide forum.  The 'Ugly American' strikes again.  It's posts like this and the strident insanity of rabid fundamentalist Xians which is giving the US a label as being a Christian Taliban country.
            
            Its obvious why they want to build it there.  The freaking property is available.
            
            If you're going to equate all Muslims as terrorists then all Christian churches are hoist on 'their own petard.' 
            
            Therefore, as terrorist operating centres all Christian churches will be confiscated as government property, the terrorist religion  vastly constrained, and the leaders imprisoned forever as unlawful combatants.
            
            The 'sword' cuts both ways.

            replyreport
         2. 61

            Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Right.  This is a terrorist hotspot.  Obviously.  So why does it matter where it is?  Let's stop them from building religious centers anywhere.  And as I said earlier, it isn't a mosque.  You voice opinions but carefully avoid any kind of research.  You would be able to walk by that center and not know what it was.  That being said, people will worship there...muslims actually.  So be afraid.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               "That being said, people will worship there...muslims actually. "
               
               But its not a mosque.

               replyreport
         3. 61

            Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Muslims from all over the world will come to a Muslim religious center to plot terror against the U.S. no matter where it is located.  After all, that is the lesson of the German mosque.  So why are you fixated on its proximity to Ground Zero?  Right now, the 7 million Americans of Islamic faith in this country are converging on a mosque in Wisconsin with bombs strapped to their chests.  That is their staging ground.  But if we eliminate all places muslims can worship, we can avoid the hazard of the German mosque.  At least we cleared up that it doesn't matter how far away the center is...its very existence and those that worship there offend you.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               "and those that worship there"
               
               And still its not a mosque.

               replyreport
   2. 0

      ryankettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hamas has nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11. Your argument is null and void.
      
      You wonder why? It is because they are Muslims. Hamas are the democratically elected government of the state of Palistine, only a very select handful of countries do not recognise them as such. You live in one.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         "Hamas has nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11. Your argument is null and void."
         
         What argument?
         
         It coincides perfectly with what I was saying.
         
         The reason that they want to build near the ground zero site is because they build mosques where they feel they have had a major conquest.
         
         It had nothing to do with Hamas having anything to do with 9/11 and everything to do with Hamas understanding the reason why it is to be built.

         replyreport
         1. 0

            ryankettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I am sure that even you could see why Hamas perhaps view America as a political enemy, seeing as your taxpayers fund their persecutors to the tune of $3bn per year. I would even go as far as to say that America, and the UK, could be percieved as enemies of the Palistinian state. Building a mosque at ground zero signifies nothing greater than a Starbucks being built in central Baghdad, two seperate cultures wishing to impose their belief systems and ideals on eachother. Probably percieved as a small victory by certain Muslim factions, yes. Just like the opening of closed markets is seen as a victory to the American people.
            
            Six of one and half a dozen of another.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Thats nice.
               
               I guess even you can see that your original post wasn't warranted or even relevant to my points.
               
               Just more of the same.
               
               So I will clarify.
               
               This mosque is being built to signify a perceived conquest.
               
               I said nothing more and nothing less.

               replyreport
               1. 57

                  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  This mosque is being built to signify a perceived conquest."
                  
                  Objective supporting evidence, oh troll?

                  replyreport
                  1. 60

                     Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Says the sock puppet

                     replyreport
            2. 60

               Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               And just to be even clearer.
               
               Those tax dollars used to persecute Hamas are tax dollars I do not mind paying.

               replyreport
      2. 60

         Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         "You wonder why? It is because they are Muslims. Hamas are the democratically elected government of the state of Palistine, only a very select handful of countries do not recognise them as such. You live in one."
         
         
         Yes I live in a country that sees Hamas for what they are, terrorists.

         replyreport
      3. 66

         Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Hamas was "elected", when was the last election held?
         
         When do the Palestinians have the next election scheduled?
         
         1 year 2 years
         
         Never!

         replyreport
         1. 0

            ryankettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You need to check your facts Arthur.
            
            They won a majority of seats in the January 2006 parliamentary elections, defeating rival party Fatah.
            
            They won 74 seats to the 45 of Fatah, allowing them to form a majority government. It should be noted that prior to 2006 FATAH WERE THE RULING POLITICAL PARTY.
            
            There were actually six parties to choose from, unlike the very straight line American elections. Hamas recieved 44.45% of the votes, against 41.43% for Fatah.
            
            They even set aside SIX SEATS FOR CHRISTIANS EVEN IF THEY DO NOT RECIEVE ENOUGH VOTES. The previous election was in 1996, continually postponed with the blessing of opposition parties (including Hamas) as a result of ongoing conflict. The elections have again been postponed, with the BLESSING of the opposition.
            
            Arthur, wake up and smell the coffee.
            
            

            replyreport
            1. 66

               Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               With the right motivation you can get a Blessing out of anyone for anything.
               
               Where would Free Palestine be?

               replyreport
               1. 0

                  ryankettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  The boundaries? The currently defined State of Palestine, not ancient palestine. In other words, the two-state solution.

                  replyreport
                  1. 66

                     Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Do you think the Palestinians would settle for Gaza and the West Bank maintaining the settlements that are already built by Israel?

                     replyreport
   3. 61

      Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Many Rabbis also came out in favor of the muslim center.  I wonder why?  Quick Jim, whip out a masturbatory quip about how the Jews and Muslims are in this together. 
      
      The article is written by a rabbi, I attach the link and then an excerpt.  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joshua-st … 75066.html
      
      "Rabbis have shown support through a number of different avenues, from newspaper articles to petitions, vigils and endorsements. Those who have shown support for Park 51 include: Eric Yoffie, President of the Union for Reform Judaism; David Ellenson, President of Hebrew Union College; David Saperstein, Director of the Religious Action Center; Ellen Lippman, co-Chair of Rabbis for Human Rights-North America; Irwin Kula, President of CLAL; Arthur Waskow, Director of the Shalom Center; Nancy Fuchs-Kreimer, Director of the Department for Multifaith Studies at the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College; Michael Lerner, Editor of Tikkun; Burton Visotzky, Appleman Professor of Midrash and Interreligious Studies at the Jewish Theological Seminary; and Leila Gal Berner, leader of Kol Ami and founder of the Center for Jewish Ethics. And the list goes on.
      
      Even as newspapers continue to flurry with the headline that the Anti-Defamation League has opposed Park 51, the leaders of American Jewry have come out disproportionately in support of the community center. The ADL is but an unfortunate exception to the remarkable trend.
      
      Rabbi David Saperstein may have best explained why so many Jewish leaders (and their organizations) have shown support for Park 51:
      
      We Jews, as the victims of religious extermination and persecution, know all too well the pain that comes from being told that our community and our houses of worship will be treated differently than others.
      Jews know intimately what it is like to be oppressed and to have the freedom to gather as a community undermined. We understand what it is like to be a minority on the outs. It is only in the past couple of decades that Jews have become more fully accepted into American society, and memories of how it felt at other times continue to cast a pall over our community."

      replyreport
      1. 60

         Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         "Many Rabbis also came out in favor of the muslim center.  I wonder why?"
         
         Me too.

         replyreport
         1. 61

            Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I know you do.  Here is another group conspiring with Hamas, and Jewish rabbis...it is the "September 11th Families For a Peaceful Tomorrow."  I wonder why?  It represents over 200 families of people that lost their lives during that tragedy.  http://www.peacefultomorrows.org/article.php?id=977
            
            
            
            I have no idea how Hamas and the Jewish rabbis infiltrated this organization.  But someone needs to stop this axis of evil.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               "I have no idea how Hamas and the Jewish rabbis infiltrated this organization.  But someone needs to stop this axis of evil."
               
               And you're just the man to do it.

               replyreport
6. 60

   Jim Hunterposted 14 years ago

   "The building of the Cordoba Mosque After the Islamic conquest of the Visigothic kingdom the Emir Abd ar-Rahman."
   
   I wonder if the name has some historical significance?
   
   " There was a better way. It came from Gov. Paterson, whose offer to help the mosque developers find another location held the potential for a harmonious settlement."
   
   "But without even a serious conversation, they rejected the offer, reinforcing suspicion that provocation to the memory of 9/11 is part of the developers' plan."
   
   http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/unsh … 2PNzlGPK/1
   
   Hmmmm, I wonder if there is an entirely different reason than those stated by many on hubpages as to why they want to build a "community center" there?
   
   I know I know, 2 blocks away and around the corner. Thats the mantra of the liberal kindergarten class currently backing this project.
   
   "For those who are not familiar with the religion of Islam; a mosque is where believers and practitioners of the religion of Islam congregate to offer daily prayers, and on every Friday noon, listen to sermons from the pulpit. Traditionally, mosques were built on conquered lands as symbols of Islamic victories and signs of power as well as places to indoctrinate and convert the local populations."
   Tarik Ayasun 08/16/2010
   http://coastalbreezenews.com/2010/07/30 … ero-never/
   
   I think its pretty clear as to why they want to build close to ground zero.

   replyreport
   1. 0

      PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You know, this is a free country.  If they have a legal right to build there, it doesn't matter why they want to build there as long as they are not breaking any laws. 
      
      I'm not saying I know or care one way or another what their motivation is.  I'm just saying, it doesn't matter.  This is a free country, and I find it alternately amusing and horrifying that you conservatives who so frequently argue about "rights" are so quick to want to deprive others of their rights because you are afraid of them.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I'm sorry, did I say I wanted to prevent them from building?
         
         Could you point that out for me?
         
         It may not matter to you why but for a majority of Americans it does.

         replyreport
         1. 0

            PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Okay, so you didn't say that.  If I made an erroneous assumption based on your posts, then I apologize.
            
            So, the "why" matters to you.  Now what?

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Now what?
               
               Now what, nothing.
               
               They have the right and no one says they don't, no matter how many times you say we want to prevent them from exercising their rights we don't.
               
               I find the reason for building there repugnant, as do most Americans.
               
               You excluded of course.

               replyreport
               1. 85

                  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't think it is repugnant and no one whose opinion I have any respect for thinks that either.
                  
                  I do think them foolish, because violent stupidity is likely to follow.

                  replyreport
                  1. 60

                     Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I wouldn't expect you to ever be in line with most Americans.
                     
                     You represent the fringe like your hero Obama.
                     
                     And that will be why democrats lose in November.
                     
                     I want you and your ilk leading the charge, it just makes the inevitable defeat of your hero so much sweeter.
                     
                     As for your respect I can only thank God I'm not deserving of it.

                     replyreport
                     1. 85

                        Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I don't have any heros.  Unlike conservatives, I think for myself.
                        
                        Nor do I get worried if my opinions fall away from the mainstream.  In fact, it is when I am in agreement that I wonder if I might be wrong.  But that comes from not being a lemming; yet another idea conservatives have a hard time understanding.

                        replyreport
                        1. 60

                           Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           I understand your lemming analogy quite well.
                           
                           Obama will lead and you and your kind will follow him right off the cliff.
                           
                           Think for yourself, thats a good one.

                           replyreport
                           1. 85

                              Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Ayup, it sure is funny how liberals argue with each other but conservatives all think alike.  We can always count on every one of you to spew the same opinions - often the exact same words!  Gee, I wonder why that is..

                              replyreport
                              1. 60

                                 Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Could you point me to a thread where liberals are arguing with each other?

                                 replyreport
                                 1. 0

                                    PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    You are right that you will rarely find liberals arguing with each other here on these forums.  We spend too much time arguing with conservatives.  If you want to see liberals arguing with each other, go to a liberal blog and start reading.  You will be amazed.
                                    
                                    http://www.dailykos.com/
                                    
                                    Right now, on the front page under Recommended Diaries, there is one entitled "Judging Obama."
                                    
                                    Check it out; I'm sure you will find it amusing, although for different reasons than I do. 

                                    replyreport
                                    1. 60

                                       Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       I appreciate the link but I have a hard enough time with the libs I'm used to.

                                       report
                                       1. 0

                                          PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          I know, Jim, you wouldn't want to actually read something that would contradict your stereotypes of liberals.  It might cause a brain explosion.
                                          
                                          

                                          report
                                       2. 85

                                          Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          Don't try to confuse Jim  with evidence - he already knows what to think!

                                          report
                                          1. 60

                                             Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                             Evidence that liberals are arguing?
                                             
                                             Ok, so maybe they argue, and?
                                             
                                             Its not that I don't think that they argue its that I don't want to read what two liberals are arguing about.
                                             
                                             I don't find what the liberals talk about here interesting why would I go somewhere else and be bored?

                                             report
                              2. 60

                                 Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 "We can always count on every one of you to spew the same opinions - often the exact same words!  Gee, I wonder why that is.."
                                 
                                 Because we don't get confused in our thought process and are able to stay on topic.
                                 
                                 Work on it.
                                 
                                 You may get it one day.
                                 
                                 Ayup

                                 replyreport
                              3. 0

                                 PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 I watch Fox News almost every morning because my fiance' has it on.  I can predict with almost 100% accuracy what new threads will be started here in the forums that day based on the Fox News Outrage of the Day.

                                 replyreport
                                 1. 60

                                    Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    Thats a scientific approach..
                                    
                                    In all honesty it probably does stem from what fox news has on, its the network of choice for a lot more people than any other.
                                    
                                    Does tend to make sense.

                                    replyreport
                                    1. 0

                                       PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       No, not scientific, but fascinating nonetheless (to me).

                                       report
                              4. 60

                                 KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Hmmmm, dunno, maybe poor powers of observation, poor reading comprehension, really bad public schools, too many carbs in their diet, or perhaps plain old identity confusion from preening in blue carnival mirrors too long on the part of liberals?  Ayup, could be, old Harry Reid could be causing both conservative and liberal mental ideopathological confusion, maybe he looked in the blue carney mirror and saw a nightmare, since he doesn't support Obama's Ramadam speech either.....Gee, I wonder why that is?

                                 replyreport
               2. 0

                  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Fine, I can accept that. It doesn't change anything, though, nor should it.

                  replyreport
      2. 60

         KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         There is something terribly terribly sad about much of what you've said.

         replyreport
         1. 0

            PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Why?  Because I don't want to deprive American citizens of their legal rights just because I might disagree with their actions?

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               There you go again making erroneous assumptions.
               
               Do you get paid for every one you make?

               replyreport
               1. 0

                  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  LOL!  I'm merely restating what I said, which she said is "sad," in a more succinct way.  No assumptions there.

                  replyreport
                  1. 60

                     Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Okie Dokie.

                     replyreport
                     1. 61

                        Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        it's intriguing to read your arguments.
                        
                        You make amazing arguments, but always stop short of jumping to a conclusion, even though your arguments obviously point to a specific conclusion.
                        
                        then, when people say "your conclusion is stupid", you never actually say that the conclusion is stupid, you just simply deny that you made the conclusion.
                        
                        It's like... making an argument, without making an argument, so that you can later deny that you made an argument...
                        
                        hmm...

                        replyreport
                        1. 0

                           PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           That is SPOT on!

                           replyreport
                           1. 61

                              Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Evan makes the 3-point shot - nothing but net!

                              replyreport
                              1. 0

                                 PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Yes, Evan is right sometimes.  :-)

                                 replyreport
                              2. 60

                                 Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Yeeeeeeeeeeah, nothing but air.

                                 replyreport
                        2. 60

                           Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Really, you cant see where I was going with that?
                           
                           That I think the reason they are building there is repugnant?
                           
                           You couldn't understand that even after I said it?
                           
                           Wow...

                           replyreport
                           1. 61

                              Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              hahahahahahahaha- -- look, Jim got mad at me for NOT jumping to a conclusion, but he got mad at prettypanther when she DID jump to a conclusion!!!
                              
                              AMAZING!!!! truly amazing.
                              
                              Here's the quote from pretty:
                              
                              "You know, this is a free country.  If they have a legal right to build there, it doesn't matter why they want to build there as long as they are not breaking any laws."
                              
                              Here's his response:
                              
                              "Now what?
                              
                              Now what, nothing.
                              
                              They have the right and no one says they don't, no matter how many times you say we want to prevent them from exercising their rights we don't.
                              
                              I find the reason for building there repugnant, as do most Americans.
                              
                              You excluded of course."
                              
                              THEN, when I DIDN'T Jump to a conclusion, he got mad at me!! AHAHAHhahahhahaha
                              
                              It's like... arguing with you... is pointless... because you don't actually have a stance on the issue!!
                              
                              Jim- my final comment to you - drop the insulting language, you'll end up getting reported and lose 3 days of post time. It's happened to me, and I'm trying to be nicer.

                              replyreport
                              1. 60

                                 Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Yeah, I, uhhhh what?
                                 
                                 Their reason for building there is repugnant.
                                 
                                 That is what I said.
                                 
                                 Not too hard to figure out since I used that word.
                                 
                                 But you still don't get it.
                                 
                                 Nevermind.

                                 replyreport
                              2. 60

                                 Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 "Jim- my final comment to you - drop the insulting language, you'll end up getting reported and lose 3 days of post time. It's happened to me, and I'm trying to be nicer."
                                 
                                 What insulting language?

                                 replyreport
                        3. 85

                           Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           That's our Jim!  Fun, ain't he?

                           replyreport
                           1. 61

                              Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              don't worry Pcunix, even though we disagree on about everything, i won't ever get mad at you for following proper forum-posting protocol.

                              replyreport
                              1. 60

                                 Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 How exactly are you able to determine somebodies mood from words written on a computer screen but can't figure out that I think the reason for a mosque being built near ground zero is repugnant even after I said it was repugnant?
                                 
                                 Again wow...

                                 replyreport
                                 1. 61

                                    Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    yup.
                                    
                                    Good thing you wrote that to me. i'm glad i read it.

                                    replyreport
                                    1. 60

                                       Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       I'm glad you did too.
                                       
                                       Got an answer?

                                       report
                                       1. 61

                                          Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          why would i bother answering Jim, you're just going to insult me.
                                          
                                          Here, i'll respond. You try to NOT insult me with your response to my response.
                                          
                                          "Jim, you made many statements that point towards the idea that you think that the government should prevent the mosque from being built. Apparently this is not so. you have since then attacked everyone on this forum who has attempted to point such a statement out to you, and then people have started to point out that you're very aggressive and - to some - mean.
                                          
                                          I understand completely that you DON'T think the government should prevent the mosque from being built, but that you think it's repugnant. I do NOT understand why most of your responses have in such an aggressive and angry tone"
                                          
                                          ok.... GO!

                                          report
                                          1. 60

                                             Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                             I haven't attacked anyone.
                                             
                                             I stated my case clearly.
                                             
                                             You went off on a tirade about things that simply were not so.
                                             
                                             You attacked my position as me not really making an argument.
                                             
                                             You were wrong as you now admit, pretty panther in her own words understood what I was saying.
                                             
                                             I have not insulted you I was amazed that you would say I was saying nothing.

                                             report
                                 2. 80

                                    TamCorposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    LOL--I like you, Jim...
                                    
                                    And I LOVE your avatar...it must be how you feel sometimes, as you reply to these threads, lol... 

                                    replyreport
                                    1. 60

                                       Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Thank you, I am struggling through a sea of confusion.
                                       
                                       And yes, I do feel that way sometimes, but this isn't one of those times.
                                       
                                       This time I'm doing the loading the pistol and holding it to my head thing like Archie Bunker used to do.

                                       report
                                       1. 80

                                          TamCorposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          Uh, oh...better not say that on the "Right to bear arms" thread, lol...   

                                          report
                                          1. 60

                                             Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                             I have a right to bare arms, and covered arms, and hairy arms.

                                             report
                                             1. 80

                                                TamCorposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                Yes...yes, you do...

                                                report
                                             2. 0

                                                PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                Yes, you have that right, even if I think it's repugnant.

                                                report
                                                1. 60

                                                   Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                   Do you want me to build my hairy arm near you?

                                                   report
                                                   1. 0

                                                      PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                      Is it your right?  Then go for it.

                                                      report
                                                   2. 81

                                                      Tom Cornettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                      You'll need a permit. 

                                                      report
                                             3. 81

                                                Tom Cornettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                Or shaved and covered with pink cool whip! 

                                                report
         2. 61

            Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            The legality part or the free country part?  Which saddens you more?

            replyreport
   2. 61

      Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting, a compelling argument for not letting muslims build religious centers anywhere in the country.  So the proximity to Ground Zero was just a canard?  Pointing out that the center is not at ground zero, but two city blocks away and around the corner is repeated because people continue to repeat the falsehood that this is a mosque at ground zero.  I will also point out again that this isn't a mosque.  There will be space set aside for people to come and have religious services, pray, etc., just as there will be space or a theater, rec. center etc.  So if you hate the idea of muslims praying anywhere, they will certainly be praying at this center.  But it is not a mosque...if you have ever seen a mosque it is a rather elaborate architectural wonder...sort of like any kind of cathedral or temple.  This center is a storefront in a NY block.  So whatever symbology you are drawing from this (apparently the simple act of building a mosque is a statement of conquest, so muslims need to stop building mosques anywhere to give you reason to stop hating them.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         You may want to study a little history.
         
         Lets see, "There will be space set aside for people to come and have religious services, pray," but its not a mosque.

         replyreport
         1. 60

            SomewayOuttaHereposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            it's usually called a jamatkhana...it's a community gathering place....an ismaili muslim thing i believe...and yes, part of it will include a place to pray....and if it were a mosque so what...I understand the ismailis have been there for 27 years already...part of the community....and a few 'city blocks' away from ground zero...city blocks are long.....it's not like this ismaili group is just moving in...they've been there...ismaili - followers of the aga khan...participants in the 'world partnership walk for global poverty'...with a focus on children of the world living in poverty....sounds like peaceful people to me....

            replyreport
         2. 61

            Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You elevate ignorant trolling to a level I have never seen before.   I have already explained this and provided you a link to it.  Not all places where muslims worship are mosques...  If you hate the idea that muslims will be worshiping at the center...and you obviously do...Mosques look different and have a different function.  People of the Jewish faith have community centers, with rec. rooms, theaters, etc, and areas you can pray.  They are not called synagogues because that is an inaccurate description.  But Jews do pray there.  If you hate that idea, you will hate these centers...but that doesn't make them synagogues.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               "You elevate ignorant trolling to a level I have never seen before."
               
               Is there a more enlightened type of trolling?
               
               Watch out for the mosque thats not a mosque.

               replyreport
   3. 60

      Elpasoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      None of this talk matters.  We can not dictate where a holy place is built...End of Story.  I dont care what your reasons or fears are!  I dont care what you think you know about this particular group of people.  And I really dont care how POLITELY someone suggests that they move somewhere else.  This is America!  We just dont do those kind of things here!  If you dont know that, or you forgot that, or you choose to ignore what it means to be an American; take a refresher course.  This country is not going back to the world of exterminations and witch burnings or any of the other horrible places we could end up in, on this slippery slope some people want to take us down.
      
      AND ANOTHER THING...That building down near Ground Zero wasn't built on wheels, it not moving anywhere. And... I havent heard Trump offer his Tower, or The Governor offer his Mansion, or the Capital Building.  No one has yet suggested just how far away the building should roll...No offers or real suggestions so far at all.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         None of this talk matters to you and a few others.
         
         It matters to the majority.
         
         Scream all you want about exterminations and witch burnings.
         
         Nobody is suggesting anything remotely resembling that.
         
         Typical liberal hysterics.

         replyreport
         1. 60

            Elpasoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Nobody is suggesting anything remotely resembling that.
            
            That's how it always starts.  With a little suggestion that snowballs into the unthinkable.
            
            Study your history please.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Thats how what starts, exterminations and witch burnings?
               
               Do you have a lot of experience in exterminations and witch burnings?
               
               Does that happen a lot where you live?
               
               I personally have never witnessed an extermination or witch burning.
               
               What do you wear to an extermination or a witch burning?
               
               Casual,semi casual, formal?

               replyreport
               1. 60

                  Elpasoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You worry about what you're going wear when you hang a gay man on a fence.

                  replyreport
                  1. 60

                     Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     No, I don't plan on hanging a gay man on a fence.
                     
                     Do you?

                     replyreport
7. 74

   Mighty Momposted 14 years ago

   Your OP asked whether we support Obama's statement about the proposed mosque at Ground Zero (or around the corner, or within close enough proximity that it has got New Yorkers' -- and others' -- hair on end).
   
   My answer is yes.
   Mr. Obama reaffirmed that in the United States we have freedom of religion. So they have the RIGHT to build it. He then went on to say that just because they have the RIGHT to build it does not mean it is the RIGHT thing to do.
   I agree with him on both counts.
   Sentiments in NYC are, understandably, very high against the placement of a symbol of Islam anywhere near Ground Zero.
   Could you imagine putting a synagogue at the site of Auschwitz? I think NOT.

   replyreport
   1. 61

      Liberian1847posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You make a great point. This whole issue is sensitive and a 'sad irony' as some call it,but here we are in the middle of it. What do we do? Eventhough there isn't much we can do, but how can we move past this and say to the world
      " Look, this is what makes us unique and great. We know freedom,forgiveness, and love (which is the greatest). Yes we are the greatest nation on the face of the Planet!"?

      replyreport
      1. 57

         stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         There is no 'issue.'
         
         The hate mongers are making much ado about nothing and people are falling for the rubbish.

         replyreport
         1. 60

            Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Put it in a hub, bub.

            replyreport
8. 85

   Pcunixposted 14 years ago

   Absolutely.
   
   I also think they are fools.  But fools have rights.

   replyreport
   1. 60

      Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely what?

      replyreport
      1. 85

         Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         What is the question asked in the title, Jim?
         
         That is what my answer refers to.

         replyreport
         1. 60

            Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I apologize for not understanding your random statement thrown into the mix.

            replyreport
            1. 85

               Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               It is expected that some will have difficulty following when not led by the hand,

               replyreport
               1. 60

                  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Preach brother, preach..

                  replyreport
               2. 61

                  Liberian1847posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  @ James & Pcunix.... this is not at all a funny topic but I must admit that both of you guys are becoming quite amusing. Having said that, I would  appreciate each of you to kindly lent us your personal definations (if you may) of what it truly means in this day and age to be Liberals or Conservative,and how do your detonations contrast from the fundamental concept of both ideologies.

                  replyreport
            2. 61

               Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               the tiger's sharp fangs can bite the tiger, too, jim. Don't be so harsh when someone posts something.
               
               Pcunix's statement was a fresh reply to the OP. It should be understood he's responding to the OP's headline / OP.

               replyreport
               1. 60

                  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Why should it be understood?
                  
                  Because you say so?
                  
                  Among all of the posts his thrown in is supposed to make sense because????

                  replyreport
                  1. 61

                     Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     you... can... tell... easily... by looking... at the ... forum...
                     
                     ...
                     
                     ... that's... why?
                     
                     for someone who yells at people "really you can't figure it out? wow!"
                     
                     You can't figure that out? wow!

                     replyreport
                     1. 60

                        Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        No one is yelling.
                        
                        No, I couldn't figure out what his random statement meant.
                        
                        Maybe he should have posted the question with his answer like most people do.

                        replyreport
9. 73

   earnestshubposted 14 years ago

   Obama's explanation was clear enough.

   replyreport
10. 62

    readytoescapeposted 14 years ago

    I posted this in the other forum on the subject, but it addresses the OP, and my opposition to that guy in the White House.
    
    Firstly, what are the boundaries you apply to the Media term “Ground Zero?”
    
    Where does it begin where does it end?
    Since no one really knows, is it the surmised target?
    Is it the City of New York?
    Is it just the World Trade Center complex?
    
    Or does it refer to all of the buildings damaged in the Terrorist Attack that fateful day?
    
    If it is the last one, the site of the proposed Islamic Center is at Ground Zero.
    
    For those of you that do not know, this site is the former Burlington Coat Factory. This building was closed following the damage created by the attack on 9/11, when a landing gear assembly from one of the attacking planes was blown through the roof of the building.
    
    That pretty much makes it Ground Zero.
    
    Not around the corner, or not a couple of blocks away, not steps way.
    
    This whole thing is a designed an Islamic geopolitical ploy, to further rub our noses in their feat, and in the eyes of our enemies a “no lose” proposition.
    
    Consider how it has been conceived, they use and publicize our outrage at Islamic audacity to create a “finger pointing” distraction at our apparent disregard of our Constitutional tenants regarding freedom of Religion. All simply by using the term mosque in describing what the building may be. And a Mosque it is not, it is a Muslim educational center that may or may not house a mosque, but will espouse Islamic revolutionary rhetoric.
    
    Or
    
    They build a F/U monument at the site of their greatest triumph.
    
    And our Idiot of a President fell right into the trap.
    
    It should not be allowed simply because this is Part of Ground Zero and keeping from being built does not violate the Constitution’s guarantee of free religious practice.

    replyreport
    1. 0

       PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "Consider how it has been conceived, they use and publicize our outrage at Islamic audacity to create a “finger pointing” distraction at our apparent disregard of our Constitutional tenants regarding freedom of Religion."
       
       If the outrage wasn't manufactured by the right for political purposes, it wouldn't exist in the first place, and there would be no "finger pointing" distraction, as you call it.

       replyreport
       1. 62

          readytoescapeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Manufactured?
          
          An enemy that attacked us wanting to build a monument to commemorate the act, at the location where they murdered thousands, does not bother you?
          
          These animals do not care if you are a liberal or a conservative given the chance they will kill you any way. The only difference is they will use you first, as is evidenced by your response.

          replyreport
          1. 0

             PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I am only going to respond to this one post of yours because it is obvious from your reply that you are assuming all Muslims are extremists who want to kill us.  Also, your phrase "monument to commemorate the act" is flatly wrong.
             
             You are the one being used; your fear and anger is only fueling the fire.

             replyreport
             1. 61

                Liberian1847posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                They see us devided ....this fuel their need to boast and brag!

                replyreport
             2. 62

                readytoescapeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I make no such assumption, I might agree that all Muslims do not want to kill us, but you must agree that all those that want to kill us in their self proclaimed Jihad are Muslims. Including the members and supporters of this group that wants to build this structure.
                
                Ask yourself one simple question, why does this group and it’s leader refuse to publicly to condemn Hamas, or any other radical Muslim group that sponsors terrorism or the horrific acts they commit and propagate?
                
                If they have no other agenda than that of peace loving Muslims, with abhorrence for violence this really should not be so complex. But apparently raising 100 million dollars to build this edifice would be more difficult if they did so, when you consider their fund raising is being carried out mostly in the Middle East. I wonder who might contribute?
                
                And now really, wouldn’t 100 million dollars be better spent feeding the poor and downtrodden in these Middle Eastern countries rather than building an Islamic Community Center in New York City?
                
                I wonder what the real purpose is?
                How many billions of dollars over the decades have been wasted on rockets for Hamas, explosives & bomb materials for Al Qaida, weapons for Hezbollah and to what end?
                The greatness of Allah?
                Islamic Peace?
                
                Or
                
                The Dominance of Islamic law over all others by any means?
                
                These people have been warring for thousands of years in the name of Allah, because of their intolerance for others, I’m pretty sure I didn’t light the match or fuel anything.
                
                I just know where the fire is, and liberal naiveté is helping them to spread it.

                replyreport
                1. 61

                   Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Why stop here?  You make a compelling argument for not letting American muslims practice their faith anywhere within our borders.

                   replyreport
                   1. 62

                      readytoescapeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      This particular building has very little to do with the practice of the Muslim faith, but more the ascertion of the Islamic political agenda.
                      
                      Is this the only piece of property available for development in the City of New York?
                      
                      Do "moderate" Muslims think this is a good property selection for development?
                      
                      Do "moderate" Muslims need a 100 million dollar, 15 story building to practice their religion?
                      
                      I mean I don't know that much about the practice, but don't Muslims typically get down on the ground, on their knees to worship?
                      
                      what are the other 14 floors for?

                      replyreport
             3. 69

                C.A. Johnsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I beg to differ, PrettyPanther. The project is funded by the Cordoba Initiative which was named for an event in Islamic history. When the invaded and captured Spain, Cordoba was at the time the capital. Muslims constructed an incredibly large mosque at the site of the former government's building as a symbol of victory.
                
                While I agree wholeheartedly that Muslims have the right to construct their mosque anywhere they have purchased the property to do so. I do have to wonder about the intent behind selecting this particular spot. There were hundreds of properties available in New York in the price range they paid for this building to choose from. So why this property?
                
                I do believe that most of the Muslims involved are seeking to establish an understanding with others, but I'm not entirely convinced that the founders of the Cordoba Initiative are truly reaching out a hand in compassion.

                replyreport
          2. 61

             Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Right.  Thank you for calling all Muslims in the world, including the 7 million people in this country of that faith, "animals."

             replyreport
             1. 62

                readytoescapeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I never called Muslims animals.
                
                I called the Islamic Jihadists that murder the innocent and are too cowardly to stand and fight, animals.

                replyreport
                1. 61

                   Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Really, you weren't calling all muslims "animals?"  We were having a debate on whether American muslims could build this center on land they own.  Someone pointed out that this whole controversy was a local issue and that it had been manufactured to gain political capital.   Perhaps I wrongfully accuse you of painting with a broad brush.  Many that oppose this construction believe it to be an issue of sensitivity to feelings about 9/11...they aren't accusing the muslims that want to build it of being animals and terrorist.  But what do you think?:
                   
                   readytoescape wrote:
                   Manufactured?
                   
                   An enemy that attacked us wanting to build a monument to commemorate the act, at the location where they murdered thousands, does not bother you?
                   
                   These animals do not care if you are a liberal or a conservative given the chance they will kill you any way. The only difference is they will use you first, as is evidenced by your response.

                   replyreport
                   1. 62

                      readytoescapeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Okay lets start with readytoescape wrote “an enemy that attacked us”
                      
                      And then “these animals”
                      
                      So in the context of the post
                      
                      “An enemy that attacked us” = “These animals”
                      
                      Now where or how in the world did you come up with all American Muslims are animals?

                      replyreport
                      1. 61

                         Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         So by "animals" you meant the foreign extremists that flew airplanes into buildings?  You don't mean the Americans trying to exercise their Constitutional rights to worship as they choose on their own property?  I'm sorry, the context of your post suggested that you believed that "these animals" were the ones trying to build a religious center.  Okay, as long as you only mean the "animals" in the planes and not anything relevant to our forum discussion.  Sorry I misunderstood you.

                         replyreport
                   2. 60

                      Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      "Really, you weren't calling all muslims "animals?"
                      
                      No he wasn't.

                      replyreport
    2. 61

       Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       That is not how most people define Ground Zero.  If you were to visit Ground Zero, you would not get anywhere near where the center is planned.

       replyreport
       1. 62

          readytoescapeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          For one I've been there, 2 months after the attack, and if you read my entire posting the proposed site is part of "Ground Zero"
          
          As to its proximity to the World Trade Center complex, do a google image search and look for the aerial view of its location.

          replyreport
          1. 61

             Sylvie Strongposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Because a part of the plane hit that building...over two blocks away from where most people go when they think of ground zero?  Was the building next to it hit by a piece of plane assembly?  Can they buy that one?  Isn't the whole point that this is a provocation because people are going to go to the site of the tragedy, which should be a memorial to those that have fallen, and see minarets next door?  That's not true.  People going to see the Ground Zero site will not walk two city blocks up the street and around the corner.  I can post the link again if you want...it will literally walk you from ground zero to the center.

             replyreport
             1. 62

                readytoescapeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Sylvie,
                
                It has nothing to do with where people go or where any memorial may end up being located to visit. Ground Zero is not just the twin towers,
                
                
                Many of the surrounding buildings were also either damaged or destroyed as the towers fell. 5 WTC suffered a large fire and a partial collapse of its steel structure. Other buildings destroyed include St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, Marriott World Trade Center (Marriott Hotel 3 WTC), South Plaza (4 WTC), and U.S. Customs (6 WTC). The World Financial Center buildings, 90 West Street, and 130 Cedar Street suffered fires. The Deutsche Bank Building, Verizon, and World Financial Center 3 suffered impact damage from the towers' collapse, as did 90 West Street. One Liberty Plaza survived structurally intact but sustained surface damage including shattered windows. 30 West Broadway was damaged by the collapse of 7 WTC.
                
                Also among these is the Burlington Coat Factory which is the building that has to be torn down to make way for the proposed building which is just across the street from the WTC 7.
                
                It is all “Ground Zero”.
                
                Look at the aerial photo
                
                http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/2010/ … de-center/
                
                Damage path Notice the landing gear location, that’s the site
                
                http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt … amp;ty=107

                replyreport
11. 61

    Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago

    I have a radical idea. Before you decide if you support or don't support, why not get some INFORMATION... Like at the web site for Park51, which is the name for the Cultural Center.
    
    "Mission
    
    New York deserves its reputation as a peerless center of arts, culture and ideas.  Park51 honors and furthers that tradition, envisioning a community center for all of us, bringing the best of the world to New York City, and New York City’s energy, diversity and aspirations to the world.  Park51 will become a model for future institutions, with its inclusive focus, outstanding facilities and dedication to social needs.  To realize this mission, Park51 will:
    
    Uphold respect for the diversity of expression and ideas between all people
    
    Cultivate and embrace neighborly relations between all New Yorkers, fostering a spirit of civic participation and an awareness of common needs and opportunities
    
    Encourage open discussion and dialogue on issues of relevance to New Yorkers, Americans and the international reality of our interconnected planet
    
    Revive the historic Muslim tradition of education, engagement and service, becoming a resource for empowerment and advancement
    
    Connect New York’s communities to global ideas and trends
    
    Commit to social justice, dignified human development and spiritual growth for all
    
    Pursue the development of American Muslim identities, engaging New York’s many and diverse Muslim communities and promoting empowerment and compassion for all
    
    Build partnerships and relationships with key actors and institutions who share our values, to address shared needs and solve common problems
    
    Establish a state-of-the-art green facility that will serve as a model and inspiration for sustainable space, helping to advance sustainable living in urban contexts
    
    Empower our communities with the skills and knowledge they need to advance in their various life stages
    
    Provide financial assistance for those in need, offering subsidies for our programming and scholarships to reach new audiences and further our vision "

    replyreport
    1. 0

       PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Ah, but Doug, actual INFORMATION might cause cognitive dissonance, which is extremely uncomfortable for those whose beliefs are based on feelings rather than facts.
       
       [I'm sorry, I can't help being sarcastic sometimes.  It's because I am such a mean girl.]

       replyreport
       1. 60

          Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          The actual information is they changed the name.
          
          Ayup

          replyreport
    2. 60

       Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yes it is now Park51
       
       http://dnainfo.com/20100714/manhattan/m … -as-park51

       replyreport
       1. 61

          Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          And the Mission Statement doesn't suggest any of the diabolical objectives that the wingnuts keep dreaming up in their paranid little minds. Without a shread of evidence, I might add.
          
          The wingnuts haven't obesrved that the imam for the 'mosque' is a Sufi. Al qaeda and the Taliban are Suni. The other two sects you hear about are Shiite (Hamas is Shiite) and Kurds - who are orthodox and dogmatic in the mid-east. The Sufi tradition is mystical and the Sufis are persecuted by radicals of the  traditional branches in the mid-east.
          
          If Cordoba House was radical, the imam should be from a radical sect, either Sunni or Shiite - but he's from a less popular branch, despised by the radicals of the Sunni and Shiite traditions. Please don't misquote me. I am not suggesting that all or even most Sunni or Shiites are radical. I am only saying that al Qaeda and Hamas are not affiliated with the Sufi - and the imam at Cordoba is Sufi.

          replyreport
          1. 60

             KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Apparently 64% of Americans are Wingnuts......must be a good thing.

             replyreport
             1. 60

                Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I'm proud to be a wingnut and infidel.

                replyreport
             2. 61

                Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                No - but the wingnuts have done a heck of a job exploiting fear and ignorance, which is a lot easier than teaching truth and fostering understanding.

                replyreport
          2. 60

             Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             What happened Doug?
             
             Couldn't sell the cultural center nonsense anymore so now you admit it is a mosque?
             
             The Cordoba house (now Park51 after receiving warranted bad press) is to be built as a shrine to a perceived victory over the infidels.
             
             You must be thrilled.

             replyreport
             1. 0

                PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                It doesn't matter what it is.  If you oppose it being built, then you oppose American citizens exercising their legal rights.  Simple as that.  If you don't oppose it being built, then what are you doing here, exactly?.  Are you trying to whip people up over something that you don't actually oppose?

                replyreport
                1. 60

                   Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   If I bought your premise that "If you oppose it being built, then you oppose American citizens exercising their legal rights." as serious you might have a point.
                   
                   Kind of like a liberal opposed to people chopping trees down on their property is against them exercising their legal rights.
                   
                   Doesn't compute.
                   
                   
                   I oppose it being built for the reasons why they are building it.
                   
                   I hope it isn't built.
                   
                   I hope there is someway to stop it, I just don't think there is.
                   
                   Now whatever you do never oppose a building of a walmart, it might be considered hypocritical.

                   replyreport
                   1. 0

                      PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Maybe this is just a semantics issue.  I can wish that a Walmart not be built in my neighborhood because it would hurt my aesthetic sensibilities, but if the law allows it, I would not oppose it.  I can try to change the law, but that's a different issue.

                      replyreport
                      1. 60

                         Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         But you do oppose it, you just said so.
                         
                         I do not think you are against Americans exercising their rights.
                         
                         I just think you don't want a walmart built.
                         
                         It really isn't that big a deal.
                         
                         In both cases we will both lose.

                         replyreport
                         1. 0

                            PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            Okay, I understand you better now.

                            replyreport
                            1. 60

                               Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                               Really?

                               replyreport
                               1. 0

                                  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                  I said "understand" not "agree."  Don't get too excited. 

                                  replyreport
12. 81

    JBeadleposted 14 years ago

    That damn constitution.  Not much anyone can do to stop the building of the mosque unless the conservatives want to amend the constitution like they wanted to do when the desire was to block basic human rights for gay people.  Sort of funny when the beloved document works against the cons.

    replyreport
13. 81

    Tom Cornettposted 14 years ago

    Are there any polls or views of what American Muslims think about the Mosque location?

    replyreport
14. 84

    Gerber Inkposted 14 years ago

    I think many people want to be politically correct on this subject of the Mosque being built so close to ground zero.  We seem to want to forgive and forget, but the truth is, most people who were around in NYC, NJ and the rest of NY for that matter haven't forgotten.  It is an open wound that hasn't yet healed, and it may still take a long, long time before it does.
    
    Outsiders may think, for crying out loud, get over it.  It happened in 2001.  For me, and for thousands of others, it is still fresh in our memories as if it happened yesterday.  The people jumping out of the Twin Towers and crashing to their deaths, the fog of smoke and billowing papers drifting to the ground, the engine from one of the planes that landed on the street corner still smoking.  That we cannot forget, nor forgive so easily.
    
    If it were to be a multi-cultural, multi-religious complex, I think we would be more willing to say, okay, that kind of building is welcome, that would have the potential to promote healing.  Instead, this mosque isn't welcome because of the location, and because of the insensitivity of those who want to place it there.  Remember, there are hundreds of mosques already in NYC- this particular mosque doesn't HAVE to be in this location.

    replyreport
    1. 70

       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Gerber--Reading what you wrote made my breath quicken and brought tears to my eyes. 9/11 is still yesterday to me as it is for most of the people I know here in Connecticut. I lost friends that day, and had that happened 24 hours earlier, I would have lost my sole sibling as well.
       
       Despite what Sylvie is trying to shove down everyone's throat, I am not (nor are my friends) condemning all Muslims. But I don't think the mosque should be built there, just like I wouldn't consider building a wooden cross or wearing a white sheet in the middle of Harlem. It would just be disrespectful to the memories of those who lost their lives.

       replyreport
       1. 84

          Gerber Inkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Irohner, I knew I wasn't the only one who felt this way, but people are afraid to say anything for fear of being politically incorrect.
          
          This isn't about being against Muslims, this is about common sense and respect. I don't feel that our wishes are being respected, nor are the dead being respected from 9/11.
          
          I'm glad for you that you didn't lose your sib. I lost a friend who was in the restaurant- the last thing she did was to call her mother and beg her to come get her.  I can't ever forget that, and it still makes me incredibly sad.  I'm sorry people, but I'm just not ready to "get over" 9/11 and welcome a Mosque near Ground Zero.

          replyreport
          1. 80

             TamCorposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I'm not afraid of being politically incorrect--I agree with the both of you.
             
             To me, it's not about the Constitution, it's not about politics...it's about respecting all those families who lost loved ones, and the rest of us who sat in horror that day, watching 9/11 unfold on television...
             
             Why is it SO hard for some to understand that respect is more important than politics...or whether the building is a damn recreation center or a mosque????
             
             I don't care one way or the other what Obama thinks about it, either...or any other politician!

             replyreport
          2. 61

             tony0724posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Gerber Ink I am right there with you.

             replyreport
15. 61

    tony0724posted 14 years ago

    From a constitutional standpoint yes Obama was right and I will not dispute that. Two things what if we put a Christian Church in the center of Nagasaki or Hiroshima ? And I want everybody to take a second and reflect on just how you felt on 9-11 or 9-12 or 9-13 , remember how you felt ? It is not about the location of the mosque for me so much as it is the motive for the location.

    replyreport
    1. 61

       Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       actually, if you read the Constitution, Obama is wrong: a state CAN make religious laws.

       replyreport
16. 94

    Rochelle Frankposted 14 years ago

    I don't know if this is true, but I heard that someone asked those  who were proposing the building of the mosque if they had any objection to someone establishing a gay bar and strip club next to the Islamic center.  They said that though it would not be illegal, it would be "insensitive to the feelings of the Muslims" in the area to have it placed in that particular spot.

    replyreport
17. 60

    Jim Hunterposted 14 years ago

    I'm gonna leave you to your ranting.
    
    Take some deep breaths in between hysterical outbursts.
    
    And remember Allah loves you.
    
    Shazbat Nanu nanu.

    replyreport
18. 85

    Pcunixposted 14 years ago

    We all know it is not really about the mosque.  It is just another excuse to whip up the unthinking crowd against Obama.
    
    When you confront them with religious rights, oh they agree.  So what did they expect him to say? Did they expect him to say we should suspend our Constitution because we know all the ignorami are upset?  Yes, he swore an oath to uphold the Constitution, but this is *differenent*.
    
    Had he done that, Jim would be calling for impeachment - and rightfully so!

    replyreport
    1. 84

       Gerber Inkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       All hail Obama, the great waffler.

       replyreport