Most of us have heard about it already, plans are in the works to construct a mosque at ground zero. The site where over 3,000 people died in the catastrophic event of 9/11. Mothers, fathers, husbands, and wives died in the twin towers that day, and now a giant mosque is being erected in their memory. Is that right or wrong? Has (in this instance) religious tolerance gone too far?
It is not right on top of ground zero. It is something like a block away.
I think that is right. Is that right?
I get the sickening irony behind the whole mess, however, somebody should have stepped up and bought the property for themselves. I mean- com'on there are plenty of wealthy enough people to have purchased it, we all know there are wealthy Christian churches and organizations that could have bought it, and yet nobody did.
I don't have the cash to buy it. So my feeling is if I cannot buy it, what good is my say? You know?
That's like complaining about the president, and you didn't even vote.
The one thing for sure is if it was that important to the American people, why wasn't something said way back when? Why now? That I don't buy into. That kind of attitude is hate mongering to me.
For more information on this topic, here is a forum thread from four days ago. http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/49282?p … ost1144772
"Do You Think it's Right to Build a Mosque at Ground Zero?"
I don't think it's any of my GD business...Or Yours!!!
I think it is neither wrong or right. It is a multi-complex facility being suggested, with a Board of Directors combining Hebrew, Islamic and Christian persons. Yes, it will have a mosque as well as museum, recreational facility and corporate offices for many.
While it is noted that many people unjustly lost their lives, as others lost their families and some still missing (close friend of mines sister), we should all remember that persons within the beliefs of Christian, Hebrew, Buddhist, Atheist, Hindi and Muslim were killed at the time. Not to forget Prostitutes, Chefs, Bankers, Dominatrix, Third Reich, Civil Liberty supporters, Anti and Pro homosexuals, Scientists, Liberal Anarchists, Housewives with porn weekend websites, hot dog cart vendors and a laundry list more of others, the length of Cuba...
It is a building.
What is really sad. Hope you are up to the thought;
Nearly a million times more people have died between 11 Sept 2001 and now by abortion alone. If they opened a constitutional abiding civil clinic at ground zero, would anyone care or cause...
Food for Thought.
do you think it is right to forbid it? i think there's something in the Constitution about freedom of religion...
p.s. the people who piloted those planes were fanatics who perverted the religion and i'm sure aren't representative of Muslims or their religion.
(hmm, i wonder if they can build a gay strip club across the street from the mosque...
No, regardless of whether they have the religious freedom to do so, a mosque anywhere near Ground Zero is a slap in the face to Americans. In the Iraqqi war, Muslim fundamentalists used mosques as weapons storage facilities and sometimes as a platform for weapons systems launches against American troops. Where is the guarantee that the gun locker will be forbidden anywhere inside the 25K SF building.
If the Muslims who want to build the damn thing want it built in NY, why doesn't Bloomberg, a Jew with whom the Muslims would like to be on the list of the dearly departed, argues for religious toleration. What a bunch of Bullshit! Islam has no room for religious toleration, nor do they consider lying, cheating and stealing from infidels (ANY NON-BELIEVER) bad since we are not "fellow" Muslims.
There's lots of space in the Bronx for such alarge edifice for Imams to spout their anti-Western and especially anti-American views. At the first mention of waging jihad against Americans, the mosque and all its follwers out to be allowed to become instant martyrs for their cause.
Political Correctness is not a Constitutional guarantee, yet it is used time and time again to restrain the masses from expressing their Constitutional rights to freedom of speech and expression. Like that atheist clown who keeps suing the government because he doesn't think the word "God" or prayers should be allowed on federal or federally-funded lands. Since when did this nation become a minority dictating what the majority must follow? And wsince when is calling a spade a spade wrong? If we are to remain a nation of law, then we should have all our pols ree-read the Constitution so that they may become familiar with our rights.
And quit trying to reign in guns. The second amendment guarantees Americans the right to bear arms. As one of our greatest statesmen, Thomas Jefferson once said, ""The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
I think that our government is bent on tyranny, but uses the two-party system to retain their ability to control the people. I grew up in the 50's and 60's. Back then, the TV News shows carried revalent and important information that we needed to make informed decisions. Now, "news" covers the entertainment world, focuses on the meaningless lives of celebrities and shuns away from keeping us informed about real-world problems. Pretty soon, the only news that appears will be meant to frighten us and encourage the impression that a few million Muslim terrorists will overthrow this great nation. In the election of Barak Hussein Obama to the presidency, a sleeping electorate elected a Muslim as president. He sides with the Muslim states against the Jewish state of Israel, upon whom the Muslims wish to exterminate. Next come the Catholics and strongly-Christian denominations. They would like Sharia Law to be the law of the land.
I, for one, at one time gave an oath of allegiance to protect the US Constitu-tion from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Obama is the usurper who thinks he can force change on Americans. He is dead wrong. He has enabled Americans to begin deciding the hard political questions -- why do our elected officials act like elitists and spend public money like there was a vast reservoir that never drains?
We have become more educated about our political process because Americans are standing up for their rights, demanding that their elected officials LISTEN to them, or be prepared to join the ranks of the unemploymed come November. Obama has inflicted more damage to the Democratic Party than all efforts by conservatives and/or Republicans. His stupid, reactionary remarks and decisions have turned more than half of America against him.
This is good. I pray for Obama daily (Psalms 109.8). He is the wrong man for the job and cannot be allowed to walk away with the vital national security interests he, as president, has learned... and will share with all the Muslim jihadists who want us dead.
The sad part is that people with equally limited worldview and raging prejudices are on the other side. It's the very essence of literary tragedy.
I think you're going a bit too far, but the fact can not be erased. The site was especially chosen, the name chosen to prove the triumph of Islam over Christianity. It is not a matter of Freedom of Religion any more than slander is a matter of Freedom of Speech.
There is NO Muslim community in the area. To have placed it in North Brooklyn where there is an Islamic community makes sense. But this is not about building an Islamic Centre. This is about proving the victory of Islam.
Make no mistake, the choice of the name, Cordoba, is significant.
It's not a mosque but rather a cultural center.
Ron Paul on the issue--
Why do I see that statement over and over again in this tread? What difference does it make if it is a Mosque or not? What business is it of yours or mine? By the way; did you see what our attempt to appease the 9/11 families lead to?
i'm canadian but i've followed this story a bit. what i don't understand is why it needs to be built anywhere near ground zero. then again i'm a strong opponent of the muslim religion so i doubt i'd agree to have one built anywhere.
I don't see a problem with it. I think it could go along way towards healing and forgiveness.
Intimate, you are right there are a couple of other threads about this.
According to the Native New Yorkers it is not ground zero but a few blocks away. It is a property that was already owned by the Muslim Church in that community and they are building a religious center that will house a Mosque along with many other community services.
What happened on 9/11 was tragic and an affront to the people of the U.S. as a whole but what happened was a crime perpetrated by a radical extremist group of Muslims and not the people who are building this center.
The Muslims involved with the project are U.S. citizens who still have the same rights as every other citizen to first own property and second worship as they see fit.
By preventing them from using the property they own to worship as they see fit we would be wrong. The last time I checked we still held fast to the constitution that guarantees religious freedom to all Americans.
We should really learn to discern between Muslim Extremist and American Citizens of the Muslim Faith.
Perfectly said. I absolutely agree with you.
Actually, the land is one block off and they don't own it. Nor have they done a financial disclosure to prove their viability.
C.W. Wright, if these things were not true, would you support building a mosque? Careful, it is a dangerous question...
BTW, you say that they have not done a "financial disclosure" to "prove their viability." What do you mean, exactly? Viable in what sense?
I don't think it's right nor wrong to build that mosque . I know that constitutionally there is a right to build . It's just that I think the fight to build shows a lack of senseability .
I understand what you are saying, but what would you do if you were in their situation? They plan to build a rec center to serve a local muslim community and seek approval from the city. The own the land, and it isn't at Ground Zero...it's over two blocks away and around a corner. Normally this would be a local issue and no one would care. They didn't make a big fanfare out of this. The center is not between Ground Zero and mass transit so it's not like anyone would even pass it on the way to Ground Zero. So you are getting ready to open a center you have every right to build, and then a handful of conservative radio/tv hosts start spreading misinformation about the "mosque and ground zero." They are inflaming hatred about something you have every right to do. Newt Gingrich tries to spark a religious war by arguing that we should not give muslims any more rights in the U.S. than Christians have in Saudi Arabia. To then turn around and move the center means that you acknowledge that there is either something wrong with your religion or that you belong to a category of second-class citizens. This center has nothing to do with Ground Zero and therefore it is not a sensitivity issue. There are an entire category of people that believe they are building an actual mosque (i.e., minarets, shouting out 5 times a day) right next to and looking down on Ground Zero. That is plainly false. The people that are guilty of insensitivity are the people that have tried to gain mileage out of a national tragedy and by inflaming hatred against muslims.
In other words do they have the money to purchase and develope the land.
What I believe is that they have a legal right to purchase property any where they like. What I'm afraid of is geting the FED's/States involved in LOCAL ZONING. Today a community can decide what it does and doesn't want in its community. It can also decide WHERE they want it. There are restrictions on mobil homes in communities. There are restrictions on liquor sales in communities. Now do you get where I'm comming from?
Actually, you are misinformed on both counts. I look forward to you changing your mind and supporting the rights of muslims to exercise freedom of religion. Here is a good article that shows ground zero as compared to the muslim center on a map. It is two city blocks away and around a corner. There is even a video where you can walk along from one location to another. Since someone obviously told you this was "at" Ground Zero, or "a block away" I think you need to seriously question the credibility of your sources.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-sled … 60585.html
Its roughly 500 feet from the site. A city block,technically measured by whats called the "MANHATAN METRIC" is 1/16 to 1/8th of a mile. Thats somewhere between 330 and 660 feet. Its one block. The fact that there are several streets between is incidental. The huffington post got that from the NYT. I saw that there. I'ts from there that I came to my conclusions. Based on GPS coordinates and the legend on the map is where I got my distance. I NEVER take anyones word for ANYTHING.
My whole point is that the building is facing and will overlook the site. Its insensitive. This area is a commercial district. Places of worship are typically community based. Build in the community.
I'm absolutely not wrong regarding the money. They don't have the money. Which makes me leary. Where is the money coming from? Why there?
Just follow the link. It walks you from Ground Zero to the muslim center in 4x and 1x. Watch it at 1x speed. It takes over two minutes to walk there.
It's a zoning issue. Communities should be able to decide. The zoning commission has made its decision soley the developers legal right to own property there.
I live in the mid-south. There was one built here in Memphis...no problem with it. There are plans to build a huge facility in Murpheesboro. I have no problem with it either.
On the other hand there was a nightclub that opened as a Restaurant right next to a park(baseball/soccer complex for children) I had a huge problem with that. The same tact was taken..."There is nothing illegal about it" The building was built(No windows). The funding, undisclosed at the time ultimately came from a developer who had opened several business', all strip clubs. So yes, my personal observances/experineces make me leary of this.
I agree its a zoning issue. And I believe the decision was made in a public forum where local community members could attend. Some opposition was voiced there. The city made its decision.
When this Mosque gets built(if?), and two same sex Muslims that have been married in Massachusetts goes into the Mosque to pray. I am sure there would be plenty of tolerance and they would be welcome with open arms.
Well they would be in my arms. But these things do not bother me. I don't feel threaten by this stuff, whereas most Americans are threaten I guess by homosexual marriages and Muslims.
Sad. It really is sad when you think about it in the way you wrote it.
I am not against gay marriage. I just know that the Islamic Religion abhors it and usually beheads those that are found out in their respective Islamic countries.
I am curious if our American Muslims in New York would show the same acceptance and tolerance as they would like to receive from the rest of the citizens of New York.
I am not opposed to the Mosque either, it is just something that I have been pondering.
Oh yeah, very interesting points.
Well I'm off Arthur. Nite to you and everyone else. Bye now.
Arthur - Gay marriage won't be welcome by the Catholic Church or the LDS or the Baptists. Which is fine. No one is suggesting that anyone has to change their RELIGOUS beliefs about marriage. The CIVIL marriage will change, however to grant the same LEGAL rights, responsibilities and privileges to gay & lesbian couples as are extended to straight couples. The confusion of the RELIGOUS and the CIVIL is the root of a lot of the controversy.
I haven't heard of any beheadings in the US recently by any religous groups.
Don't imply gay people want to invade Churches, Synagogs, and Mosques. We just want equal rights under the Law. Just like the law protected Muslims from the hate of the many and allowed this hated minortity to build their Mosques, the law of this land wel soon have to give us equal rights. I want to walk down the aile of my CITY HALL! Try to remember, alot of people want nothing to do with your GD Cults! Gay or Straight!
My friend I believe you read into Arthur's words incorrectly. What he was trying to say was, if two gay men walked into a muslim mosque would that be accepted? They answer would probably be no. So if a person cannot accept GLBT why should they accept a mosque being built at ground zero? That is how I read it. All people GLBT or straight are entitled to rights and so are all religious sects. Do you see the equal now in all of this? GLBT is just as equal as the rest of us, well I think so. (((Big Hugs)))
I think you have completely misinterpreted the intent of my post.
I was commenting on the acceptance in a Mosque of a same sex couple.
I think every person in the U.S.A legally should be completely allowed equal rights.
I am not affiliated with any churches, organized religions, or cults.
If I was and they did not allow a person for any label, then I would no longer take part in that organization.
Gays should have the same rights as every other person under law!
I am on your side.
I think it's just a matter of respect. If there is outrage and opposition for this why do the Muslims keep pushing through with it. I mean if they are a compassionate religion who do not want to be grouped into the same category as those extremist/terrorists, then why not show compassion for those who oppose this, I mean many of them are people who lost family on 9/11.
I think they could find a better place to put that mosque, myself that would satisfy both sides.
I do think nothing can bring those people back and in some ways, it is time to move on and then in other ways, it may be more 'appropriate' to build it somewhere else. Everyone is always going to be for or against dependent on circumstances or beliefs - and I think we just did this a few weeks ago!
I lost a couple of friends in 09/11 but I also believe that it is o.k. to build a mosque. It is my understanding that it is not at ground zero, but down the road. There are also Christian churches etc. in that area. We cannot penalize a faith for what there extremists believers have done. We should not be disliking but embracing people. Our Country is a melting pot of people and faiths so I do not see any issues with there mosque and there prayer or it being built by ground zero.
Out of curiosity, would anybody have an objection to building a huge cathedral right next to it? Or maybe a big "First Baptist Church of Ground Zero?"
Seems like a silly question. If you own the property in NYC, as long as the proposed development doesn't violate any laws, build whatever you like. There's already a couple of churches closer to Ground Zero than the Islamic Center will be.
Why is it any sillier than asking the question about a mosque? (Though, I'm all in favor of silly especially on a place like this when everyone takes themselves Oh, so seriously ... and in fact you may be observing the irony I was reaching for. ) But my specific question was about a cathedral and a church right next to the mosque... Just wondering about the basis of the opinions.
I think it's in bad taste, but I don't think it should be opposed on legal grounds ('cuz the grounds ain't illegal <snicker>)
The demonization of Islam serves only to impale the wielders of such antagonism on their own hypocrisy, religously, culturally, as well as politically.
If it was actually on the site, or if it was a big mosque right next door, I think it would be very distasteful, and I wrote a few posts on a previous thread saying I thought so, but then I saw the actual plan and it is a few streets away, and the news program I saw said it wasn't even a mosque, just the addition of a prayer room to a community center, so I don't think it's so bad.
Of course they HAVE a right to build it, but their stated purpose for building the Mosque there is to build a bridge between Islam and the west.
I ask, if you were looking to generate good will with another person, would you do it by doing something to anger them?
If generating good will, and understanding is the motive, then they should build the Mosque elsewhere, so maybe there is another motive?
Of course not, and if it was only you that had to be pleased we could move forward. Unfortunately or fortunately, everyone doesn't think like you do.
When Christians wanted to build a shrine near Auschwitz, there was an outcry and they change course because they were sensitive to the feelings of residents in the area and because they realized the bad feelings generated weren't worth it. The Imam building this Mosque ought to be asking himself the same questions.
It was a while before I realized your hubname was intended to be a play on 'liberty' - it's just unrecognizable. How appropriate.
The 'shrine' was not 'near' Auschwitz - it adjoined the land within view of the historic part that's ben preserved. The concept of liberty does not enshrine freedom for YOUR group - the virtue of the ideal is that it respects freedom for all groups.
As I pointed out earlier, the September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, a group founded and steered by families of September 11 victims supports the building of the Islamic Center. What I hear are religous bigots trying to hide behind the victims to justify their bias.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/mus … ero-mosque
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1346/mosque-at … uslim-view
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoa … 71361.html
Here are the views of three Muslims. I have said over and over, they have a right to build, what I have questioned is the wisdom to do so and whether doing so will achieve the goals of the stated purpose for doing so, promoting healing, understanding, and reconciliation of Islam with the west. Apparently there are a few Muslims that agree with me that this is a bad idea.
Keep in mind the site they plan to build on is a commercial site whit no neighborhood, no community of Muslims to be served, when right across the Hudson is such a community that could benefit greatly from a Mosque. The selected location is undesirable for so many reasons it’s hard to imagine that they would want to proceed and one can only assume their intent is not what they say.
To add insult to injury, American taxpayers are funding a trip by the Imam to the Middle East to raise funding for this Mosque.
"Keep in mind the site they plan to build on is a commercial site whit no neighborhood, no community of Muslims to be served, when right across the Hudson is such a community that could benefit greatly from a Mosque."
That statement is not true. There is a large and old community of Muslim in that area. Their Mosque is so crowded, some are forced to pray outside of the Mosque. These people are not looking for conquest or controversy. They just need space to pray in their community!
In Manhattan? Near the site of the former WTC's? Really? Interesting.
@ Friendlyword: If they weren't trying to cause controversy, then why would they dedicate the mosque on september 11th?
exactly, if these are truly sypathetic religous people, why would they want to cause such controversy? Especially when it is obvious how much pain this is causing those who lost their loved ones at ground zero.
MUSLIM PEOPLE; IN THAT COMMUNITY, AND IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, DIED DURING THE TERRORIST ATTACK ON 9/11...
JUST WHO IS BEING INSENSITIVE HERE? THREE THOUSAND PEOPLE DIED IN THAT ATTACK. THIS COUNTRY AND THIS CITY IS NOT GOING TO BE RULED BY A BUNCH OF UNELECTED OPPORTUNIST!
There was a Mosque in that area long before there was a World Trade Center.
Well, it does not seem right to build a mosque there. One does wonder about what purpose would be served by building a mosque at that site (or in the vicinity)? Do the people building it think that it would help non-Muslims understand Islam better? Would it?
If the very fact of it coming up has created so much acrimony, would it contribute anything positive? Those are the questions the planners of this mosque need to ask themselves, more than anything!!
Exactly! I see nothing wrong with Muslims in this country building Mosques, as they have every right to do so. I just think that the dedication date and building the mosque in the vicinity is disrespectful on their part.
*Why* is it not a good idea. They are building it there because that is where they live, and have lived since before 9/11, where some of them died.
This like so many other things will become a very slippery slope quickly.
First we deny the Muslim community the right to build at or near ground zero then next the Mormons will want all the Catholic and Christian churches out of Salt Lake City, and on and on and on.
I do not want my rights to worship or not as I see fit trounced on by anyone else so why in the world would I want it to happen to anyone else.
Another thought whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Why do so many assume that we have the right or ability to know what the intentions are of this particular group? Are we seriously suggesting that because some members of the Muslim faith are extremists that they all are? If that is the case we better start building more prisons, because the Christian and Catholic religions have done more than their share of mayhem in the name of God as well.
I wonder will the Imam be so tolerant of the Muslim gay bar that will be built near his new Mosque?
I wonder what that really has to do with anything?
He must ultimately be responsible for his level of tolerance just like each of us. Refusing to show tolerance for a person based on the level of tolerance you assume they might show in another situation is well very sad.
I agree with needing to show tolerance and I agree that there shouldn't be an attempt to forcibly stop them from building the mosque, but from their perspective, why would you think they are insistent on going ahead with building the mosque?
Am sure there are many other good sites to build mosques and, once again, would it really help in any positive sense in furthering inter-religious harmony/understanding of Islam, as has been stated by some of them?
My guess is because it is a property that they already own and my understanding is that they owned it long before the attack of 9/11. They want\need a mosque. they have\own a building that is suitable. It is just good sense on their part to put these together and solve their problem.
I expect that what goes on within the mosque will be free and protected expression - and what goes on outside of the mosque will be done according to the law of the land as expressed by the will of the majority.
Why would a mosque be any different than any other church in America?
What angers me is not the idea of Muslims coming here and doing something nice for a community.
What angers me is the stupid idea that all Muslims are evildoers blah blah blah. Grow up.
Where did anyone say all Muslims are evil doers?
Why are you questioning their motives?
Please go back and read the posts, I'm going to repeat myself.
Why are you questioning his questioning? Why does cheese taste like cheese? Why ask anything? Why are you reading this? Why do fools fall in love? Why did horton hear a who and why did the who ask how do you think he does it?
If this Iman wants to be a bridge builder as he claims he is , he is definitely getting off to a poor start. From a constitutional and legal standpoint he is well within his rights to build that mosque. However I think he is just kinda giving America the finger. And New Yorkers are definitely not happy about this and that is hardly the epicenter of conservative mindset.
Firstly it should be recognized that this proposed building is being termed an Islamic Cultural & Education center, which may or may not have a mosque included within.
The issue is not really if there was to be an Islamic place of worship located at this site, which is, as I understand it about one block around the corner from World Trade complex. But the concern and outrage is whether this Cultural center will breed and educate the same type of Muslim radicalism that has spurred terror around the world, and to have that type of institution located as a symbol of jihad victory in such close proximity to their most dastardly and cowardly attack.
What would be next, a mural of the planes crashing into the towers painted on the side of the building, or a statute of Muhammad Atta at the entry way and being allowed under the auspices of art?
You said: If generating good will, and understanding is the motive, then they should build the Mosque elsewhere, so maybe there is another motive?
The assumption that because they are Muslim they must have a motive other than the one they presented seems pretty clear.
Yes I questioned their stated motive and I think it was a fair question. I presented an example of what the Pope did when faced with opposition to the location of a church he had proposed to build.
The stated purpose of building that Mosque at that location doesn't make sense in the face of so much opposition and controversy. Could it be the stated motive isn't the motive at all? Why not be honest? What is the motive? Do they care that they will anger so many residents in the area?
As I said, they have the right to build the Mosque there, but is it a wise decision to do so and will it achieve their stated goals? I think not.
HOW CAN IT POSSIBLY BE RIGHT TO BUILD A MOSQUE ON THE SITE OF AN ISLAMIC TERRORIST ATTACK THAT CLAIMED THE LIVES OF SO MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE. IF THE MUSLIMS ARE SORRY FOR THE ATROCITY CARFRIED OUT BY THEIR EXTREMIST FACTION THEY CAN DONATE MONEY TO BUILD A NEW CHRISTIAN CENTRE INSTEAD. DO NOT RECOGNISE THESE PEOPLE PUBLICLY AND CERTAINLY DO NOT INSULT THE FALLEN BY BUILDING A MOSQUE WHERE THEY DIED. RESPECT YOUR DEAD AND STOP PUSSY FOOTING AROUND, BUILD A MEMORIAL TO THE INNOCENT WHO DIED NOT THE GUILTY WHO MURDERED THEM, THINK OF THE RELATIVES OF THE DEAD YOUR FELLOW AMERICANS, HAVENT THEY SUFFERED ENOUGH, AND NOW YOU WANT TO INSULT THEM WHERE IS YOUR PATRIOTISM. THERE ARE ENOUGH MOSQUES IN THE WORLD FOR THE EXTREMISTS TO SPOUT THEIR EVIL, THEY DO NOT LIKE US, THEY ARE ALWAYS TELLING US, SO WHY PUT ONE ON YOUR DOORSTEP.
Someone suggested that they build an interfaith center. Now that would build a bridge between Islam and other faiths and serve to foster understanding, if that is indeed what they want to do.
I must admit that my initial response to this news was very similar, however, as I stated earlier I do not want my constitutional rights trounced on and we are after all talking about American citizens who are guaranteed the same rights. We as a country should not hold an entire religion responsible for the actions of a some of their misguided members.
@ leeberttea I get that you think, and I agree, that they should use more diplomacy and understanding for what their actions would seem to symbolize to a good number of Americans. My point has only been that we should not deny their right to do this. From my perspective they should not want to do this.
"Newt's Well of Hate"--"Near drooling Paranoia" MetroTimes Detroit
A key plank in Gingrich's planned War on Sharia is his apoplectic outrage over the plan to build a harmless mosque and community center in the general vicinity of Lower Manhattan — the non-controversy that has stirred up Fox News, Glenn Beck, Palin and other fear mongers as the monstrous "Mosque at Ground Zero."
Gingrich's remarks in fact veered weirdly into outright craziness and near-drooling paranoia.
Newt Gingrich's speech last week at the American Enterprise Institute was full of "hateful, vile garbage [that] makes Joe McCarthy look measured and responsible." Joe Klein, in Time, notes wryly: "Newt Gingrich is clearly running for President. How do I know? He gets dumb and angry when running for office [and] pander[s] to the yahoos." Amy Sullivan, also in Time, suggests that Gingrich might be encouraged by the "Burn a Koran Day" organized by a kooky, right-wing church in Florida....
Stripped to its basics, Gingrich sounded like a psychotic Paul Revere as he warned his listeners — who, it seemed, watching the tape, applauded only sporadically and politely — that "sharia" is on the verge of taking over America. Yes, sharia. "I believe sharia is a mortal threat to the survival of freedom in the United States," Gingrich thundered. Not only Obama, but the entire American establishment, is "willfully blind" to the existential threat unfolding right before our eyes. To Gingrich, it's so obvious that it's like saying "two plus two is four," yet the Orwellian monsters who control our government insist that the answer is five, or three, or something else! The threat is so dire that Gingrich even proposed a new law to protect Americans who are one-step away from having full-bearded, scimitar-waving, Koran-thumping Taliban jurists ordering their very limbs to be chopped off and their women stoned. Gingrich, warning that the "fight against sharia" is the defining struggle of our time, intends to propose a law "that no court anywhere in the United States will be allowed to substitute sharia for American law."
Oh yes Joe Klein is brilliant and totally unbiased. This post is full of hyperbole which tends to exaggerate the issues raised by Gingrich. He has legitimate questions about the location of the Mosque, the Motive for wanting to build it there, and about the funding. His concern over sharia law might be overblown but there have been examples where judges have acted based upon a defendants belief in sharia law. The case in point was a refusal by a NJ judge to issue a restraining order against a Muslim man from his ex wife after she complained he raped her while they were married. The man pointed to his beliefs according to sharia law for a wife to submit to her husband.
Luckily this ruling was later over ruled.
This is only one example and there are others. The other thing to keep in mind is that implementing sharia law is a goal of Islam.
"This is only one example and there are others. The other thing to keep in mind is that implementing sharia law is a goal of Islam."
And the U.S. is the last place they would ever succeed. Gingrich is up to his old tricks.
So you say, but if we aren't vigilant they just might.
What are you smoking? On what basis do you believe that extra vigilance will be required before Islamic law becomes the law of the land in the United States? There are reasonable minds on the right that do not embrace this kind of hysteria.
I'm not hysterical I assure you. The fact is sharia law is a goal of Islam. Sharia law is advancing in Canada and Britain as indicated in this report entitled "Sharia Law in Britain: A Threat to One Law for All and Equal Rights"
http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/wp-conte … ritain.pdf
Apparently Oklahoma was concerned enough about it that they are about to pass a law preventing judges from relying on Sharia in deciding cases. Why would they do this?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/Media/oklahoma … d=10908521
Islam, and sharia law are fundamentally opposed to the system of freedom and justice established by the west as it currently exists in America. Their stated goals are to change that. These facts can't be denied or ignored, or dismissed by accusations of hysteria.
The issue was your belief that absent your "vigilance," Sharia law will become the law of the land in the United States. This is hysteria. What you believe the "goal[s] of Islam" are is not relevant to whether Sharia would ever become U.S. law (unless we have your vigilance to protect us).
In the U.K., they have set up tribunals so that muslims can have familial, divorce and inheritance issues resolved under Sharia law if they want. It is a belief that the parties can elect to engage in faith-based dispute resolution in family matters. Some have raised concerns that Sharia law may not give women the same rights in these family/inheritance issues as U.K. law and they may feel coerced or compelled to participate. The U.K. has similar tribunals for the Anglican and Jewish faiths.
It does not surprise me that politicians would want to capitalize on anti-Muslim feelings and fear to gain political support. The Oklahoma article is a great example. The Republican proponent of it calls it a "pre-emptive" strike against Islam. You ask, "why would they do this?" You have your answer. It would not surprise me if Oklahoma's voters approve this in November. But it is not necessary or helpful and panders feeding your hysteria. So here is what your article says:
"Legal experts contacted by ABC News said they did not know of one instance of a judge in the U.S. invoking sharia in rendering a decision.
"Cases of first impression are rare," said Jim Cohen, a professor at the Fordham University School of Law in New York City, adding, "I have never heard of a case" involving sharia.
Cohen added that he questions whether the proposed amendment would pass constitutional muster.
"Our federal system and our state system is in part governed by the concept of separation of powers. It's far from clear that the Oklahoma legislature can restrict what a separate branch of government can consider in terms of doing its job – in this case, deciding cases," he said.
"I think this is a political statement against Muslims and, inferentially, in support of United States," Cohen said.
So you think that Muslims are all evil doers and trying to overthrow the US.
I really don't think that a mosque should be built at ground zero.I am not trying to offend anyone but I think that the idea of a mosque being built at ground zero would give the terrorists a symbolic victory and I know that alot of muslims died at ground zero but I still say it is a bad idea.
Again, hysteria is "unmanageable fear" it's not associated with vigilance, which is more of a paying attention, an awareness. I am not hysterical. I see nothing wrong with opposing the teachings of Islam as they apply to the political. I don't believe we should provide the accommodation that Britain did, that's a step in the wrong direction and a form of appeasement to those of the Muslim faith that would wish to impose their beliefs upon western society.
Um...and how is that appeasement? British Muslims wanted a tribunal where they could voluntarily have a faith-based resolution to family law disputes and inheritance issues. The U.K. had already created such tribunals for Anglicans and Jews. How is that Muslims imposing anything on Western society? Hysteria.
The difference is Islam has a stated goal of reimposing sharia law. That's not hysteria, that's a fact. The attempts to impose sharia law elsewhere around the globe have also led to violence and even civil war in Sudan.
My impression is that few American Muslims would support applying Sharia law in this country. Most of them are pretty well assimilated.
What I fail to understand is, why build a mosque there? Are there so many muslims around that area that justifies a mosque to be built there? Now, is the mosque going to practice the 5 times a day prayer sessions and prayers through the loudspeakers? Believe this has to be taken into consideration on the viability and sensibility of having one built there. I am neither for nor against, but I believe there has to be practicability in such an action.
Telltale - It's not a Mosque. It's a cultural center. Youu can't find a Mosque with a swimming pool, theatre, library, meeting rooms - and yes a few prayer rooms. But calling it a 'mosque' is like calling the YMCA a cathedral.
The difference is there will be a Mosque there.
They have every right to build there.
It seems to me to be in bad taste however.
Well darn, then even CNN is full of journalistic morons who need a lesson in the semantics of what constitutes a mosque.
And Diane Inside, you are precisely right, if these are 'truly sympathetic people' they would not want to cause such controversy, and once it started, they would have walked away with good words and in even better grace with the USA -- too bad our POTUS couldn't have given lip service to that concept.
Clearly, that did not happen, as clearly there is a much more valuable and subversive intent for the building of this mosque/community/cultural center in spitting distance of Ground Zero, and has anyone asked who may join/visit this fine community/cultural center?
Can women waltz in and shed their clothes in a dressing room for tight workout duds, can they put on a suit and swim, is there a 'special' health care bill mandated room for them to breast feed their babies (surely this mosque/community/cultural center will employ greater than 50 Americans)? I'm just curious, are all these things allowed, are all American things allowed? Will be interested to check back here and see if anyone knows what the mosque/CC rules are for this heart of NYC Cultural Center.
So sad that the lesser voice of Amerians who don't give a Ramadamn about building this mosque, or much else that's American, are as usual, presenting themselves as the voice of reason in an unreasonable situation.
I agree, while it seems that they are saying it will be a cultural center, (for the Muslim community), they are going about it all wrong if they truly want to mend fences, and show muslims in a better light.
I just think they should take the stance of peacful resolution, possibly make plans to move it elswhere, to show that they are sensitive to the Americans who lost people on Sept. 11th.
I just don't feel that they truly understand the wound that resulted from this horrible event. Wounds that were cut deep and have yet to heal.
This is like rubbing salt in the wounds of the American People.
You have an interesting definition of spitting distance. Did you see the link I posted that does a walk from Ground zero to the muslim center? Your spittle would have to be incredible to go up two city block and around a corner...more agile than the bullet that killed Kennedy. And this was never meant to be a political issue or statement to anyone. It was a local issue that no one paid attention to until certain commentators and politicians made it a national issue to gain political mileage.
Captain America said -
"as clearly there is a much more valuable and subversive intent for the building of this mosque/community/cultural center in spitting distance of Ground Zero, and has anyone asked who may join/visit this fine community/cultural center? "
From the Cordoba Initiative site - They are behind theCordoba House, which is the name of the Islamic Cultural Center -
"The programs at Cordoba Initiative (CI) are designed to cultivate multi-cultural and multi-faith understanding across minds and borders. In the ten years since our founding, the necessity to strengthen the bridge between Islam and the West continues to prevail. Cordoba Initiative seeks to actively promote engagement through a myriad of programs, by reinforcing similarities and addressing differences."
Now just where in the HELL do you get 'subversive intent' from that?
Doug, it's reported in the media that it is a mosque, and I commented as such, nothing more.. I know what a YMCA is. Perhaps they have a different agenda in setting up a cultural center.
Jim, I am not talking about rights, I am talking about practicability, viability and sensibility, if it is a mosque. For a cultural center, it looks like they are out there to 'educate'.
Thats the trouble with some governments these days, appeasement policy. Some of us wont learn.
An interesting definition of appeasement...American citizens exercising freedom of religion and building a house of worship on land they own.
This is easy yes why because the constitution says americans can worship whatever religion they desire and therefore government can't make any law for or against any religion.
"Someone here had said that Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the main guy behind the Cordoba House Islamic center, is a Sufi. This is a detail I have yet to see in a news story, but I can confirm it is true. He is the imam of a Sufi mosque in lower Manhattan, about ten blocks north of the proposed Cordoba House site...
there is no way the Muslim Brotherhood, or al Qaeda, or the Taliban, or any other organization dedicated to enforcing dogmatic Sunni Islam would have anything to do with a Sufi. In fact, Sufis in the Middle East have suffered terribly from attacks by Sunni terrorists.
Earlier this year, suicide bombers destroyed a major Sufi shrine in Pakistan, killing at least 50 Sufi worshipers and injuring about 200 others. The Taliban were blamed, although a Taliban spokesman denied the charge. But the Pakistan Taliban have been attacking Sufi shrines and mosques as vigorously as they’ve been demolishing the remnants of the ancient Buddhist.."
http://www.mahablog.com/2010/08/11/imam … is-a-sufi/
For those conservative hubbers dedicated to hatred and fear, this will mean nothing because you have to engage your brain to get it. Let me review. The Sunni dominate in Pakistan, Afghanistan & Saudi Arabia. Al Qaeda and the Taliban are Sunni. Most of Iraq (and Iran) is Shiite. In Northern Iraq are the Kurds. The Sunni, Shiite and Kurds are all orthodox and dogmatic in different ways and to different degrees, comparable to Catholics, Mormons, and Baptists within christianity.
Here's the bottom line - the imam of the 'Mosque at Ground Zero' is Sufi - an offshoot of Islam which teaches mysticism - think of it as New Age Islam - hardly a candidate for radical Islam, which the paranoid wingnuts (redundant) accuse the center of being.
The very thought of building a mosque at Ground Zero pains my heart. If it was a natural disaster, it would be meaningful. But it was unnatural.... a dreaded terrorist attack, killing around 3000 lives within an hour. Do Americans want to award the terrorists by permitting them to worship there?
1. If great destruction takes place, we should reconstruct the destroyed things. It is better to think of reconstructing the twin towers at the same place.
2. If those who committed the crime are to be punished, a big cemetry should be kept ready at ground zero to bury the criminals and their leader.
If a mosque is built there, those who committed the crime will feel they are rewarded..... and the 3000+ dead souls will not forgive the Americans.
Muslims already worship at Ground Zero. People of many faiths died on September 11 and go to Ground Zero to pay their respects and honor the dead. Our Constitution will not permit abridging the freedom of religion of the some 7 million muslims that live here because of the acts of foreign extremists. The "mosque at Ground Zero" is a misnomer created for political mileage. It is neither a mosque nor at ground zero. I earlier posted a link showing on a map where the muslim center is in comparison to ground zero and a video showing in 4x and then 1x time someone walking from ground zero. It illustrates well how ridiculous this fake "controversy" is. This center was never truly for the purpose of facilitating peace, understanding or anything. It was a group of Americans choosing to build a rec. center and place of worship on land they own. It became a controversy when certain commentators began spreading misinformation about what is happening there. Why should they now move the muslim center? It serves a local community, they are practicing their rights as Americans, and it isn't at ground zero. Why should they create a non-denominational center? They are muslims. Any other religious or non-religious group is free to use its money to buy property much closer to Ground Zero if they want and build a non-denominational interfaith center. But this center was a local issue that should never have been on the national stage.
Uh Huh, the Mosque/Rec plans were/are just harmless and ordinary and common.......and it is somehow an extreme coinkydink that this Iman, this gentle and kind Sufi Iman (who endorses Sharea? law), who wants to build this tall and beauteous building in "spitting distance" of Ground Zero, just happens to now be travelling the Middle East on the American dime?
And to comment on Doug's statements about this Iman being a 'Sufi' and how the really bad sects won't "have anything to do" with a Sufi Muslim -- how exactly is it then that this oh so great Iman is accomplishing anything for America in his expensive, and I suppose heavily guarded, entourage? If the Sunnis and Shiites and Kurds will have nothing to do with a Sufi Muslim, then perhaps he should be flown back to Manhattan!
And to quote and respond to Doug: ". . . you have to engage your brain to get it." This conservative brain is well engaged, and I do get that it doesn't add up.
Why do you believe it is a tall building? It won't overshadow Ground Zero. Actually the opposite is true although you won't be able to tell this structure from any other. If you saw the link I'd circulated you would see exactly where this site is and get a sense for what it is. I think your brain is engaged...engaged with unreasonable suspicion of all muslims and a hostility to our Constitution. Here's a tip for your active brain...if there are Al Qaeda moles in the U.S., chances are they are avoiding attention. This seems like an odd strategy doesn't it? On the other hand, there is a muslim community that happens to live near the area where the muslim center is proposed...what a "koinky dink" as you say, that they may want to place a center near the community it will serve.
Well, I really don't see anything here where I've said the proposed mosque is a building so tall that it overshadows Ground Zero. And like most curious Americans I've seen the photo of the proposed mosque, a tall building, at least it's taller than most of the pine trees in my back yard. It would seem your active brain is jumping to conclusions. I applaud your efforts for a cause that seems very dear to you. I just simply do not think that the voices of those who died on 911 should be the voices that are quelched and quietened and dishonored. Perhaps, if this Iman had stood and spoken to the American people with sincerity, had disclosed all parties to this 100 million dollar 'rec center', and had made just any discernible effort to reach across the aisle to concerned Americans, I might possibly view this differently -- but that's not the case.
Very good thinking. I pray that this thought should reflect in other people also. If a crime is committed, no one has the right to pardon the perpetrators except those directly affected. If that crime is a murder and the affected person is dead, there is no way.... he should be hanged.
So, until the perpetrator is caught, that ground zero should be kept without any new constructions.
There is no necessity to encourage terrorism... it is enough if a good hearted person says some sermons applicable to good people.... It automatically breeds terrorists.
The name Cordoba brings a wealth of perspective...
By the way...isn't Christian what the "C" in YMCA stands for?
Like the Boy Scouts, wasn't Jesus or the Bible somehow involved in these organizations, with specific Protestant tinges?
The pot is calling the kettle black I'm thinking....the ongoing presentation of the "other" the "foreign element"...the same kind of nonsense perpetuated in pre-Spanish Spain....before the emergence of the "Spaniard" identity construct..
As moderate Christians do not ally themselves or view themselves to be connected to the cruel, lustful, and unholy extremists of their own, neither do their Muslim counterparts...
Perhaps those who are criticizing this structure in New York should open churches and what not in the same area, and learn to live together and demonstrate that extremism will not divide the rest of us any further....
By being hostile to Muslims one is enabling the terrorists who brought planes into our buildings to win..........
Jihad and Crusade are two words representing in many ways same thing....both should be put to rest......
Instead of dividing ourselves, we should be focusing more on, perhaps, why the U.S. military enabled Bin Ladin to escape at Tora Bora, or why such a tall man as Osama, who needs kidney dialysis, can be so hard to find.... When I was in the Marines some of the guys rigged the metal railings surrounding the open courtyard in the middle of our barracks to receive Russian signals, and we have satalite networks listening in on the world's communications, but somehow we just can't find where Bin Ladin's messages are coming from....we just can't triangulate..
And Cheney's Halliburton stock goes from 2 million to over 12 million dollars during his vice presidency..... I wonder what other defense, oil, and logistics based companies he's invested in.....who have been enriched by our taxdollars through at least one war (Iraq) that was a complete fraud....prepackaged lies to pass down the American throat opened by an event that was funded by someone or something that the 9/11 Commission decided was not worth investigating....
Who cares about the funders.........right?
Lots to ponder.......like the relevance of Cordoba....
"Mothers, fathers, husbands, and wives died in the twin towers that day, and now a giant mosque is being erected in their memory. Is that right or wrong?"
Yes, right next to it I see no point. A related financial business structure should be built. A mosque down the street or a few blocks away, space permitting in NYC, is fine.
Even so, the muslim religion, as has been said time and time again, is not responsible for the acts of a few crazies.
I do see your point though. As I know the Iraqis and Afghans will have no part of an American church near the areas where 10,000+ (possibly more) innocent Mothers, Fathers and children were bombed for decades (since the early 90's) by George Herbert and then George W (or is was it Cheney?) bombing the majority of innocent Afghanis.
Here's Joan Walsh's take on the mosque issue and a bit of our history of ugly nativism in this country.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joan_ … 9_7_30_110
Not surprisingly, Douthat made his astonishingly ignorant remarks in a column defending prejudice against the so-called "ground zero mosque," which, again, isn't a mosque, and isn't at ground zero. The controversy, ginned up by Republican opportunists and kept alive by cowardly Democrats (thanks, Harry Reid!) is bringing out the "Know-Nothings" in American politics again -- and I mean that in both senses of the word. The Know-Nothings were the violent Nativists of the mid-19th century who got their name from their vow to tell police they "know nothing," if questioned about their foul anti-immigrant conspiracy. Our latter-day Know-Nothings are both peddling prejudice and propagating ignorance toward the Park51 Community Center, proving they indeed know nothing about what makes this country great. In fact, I'd call them un-American, if I'd been raised like Liz Cheney, but I was taught to believe we're all Americans, even when we disagree.
I'm proud of the work of Salon writers on this issue, so I don't have to dispel all the ignorance afoot with this one piece. If you read one thing about this issue, make it Justin Elliott's tick-tock of the way anti-Islam blogger Pamela Zeller and Rupert Murdoch's New York Post manufactured a controversy where there wasn't one. (Proof this is a fake issue: Substituting for Bill O'Reilly last December, Fox personality Laura Ingraham praised the project in an interview with the wife of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, Daisy Kahn, telling her, "I like what you're trying to do.") Just a quick digest of the worst lies: It's not a "ground zero mosque," it's a Muslim community center with a prayer room two blocks from ground zero; there's another mosque two blocks away; it's not, as the blowhard Newt Gingrich says, "like the Japanese putting up a site next to Pearl Harbor." We're not at war with Islam, we're at war with al-Qaida. Muslims died on 9/11, and have died since in the American military, defending our country against al-Qaida since.
Couple of things on your salon.com reference:
I thought it was the 'Cordoba' center? How new is the cutesy Park51 name?
I'm pretty sure I heard a Muslim leader on the news saying they needed the Mosque right there in that spot for prayers, because Muslims must say their daily's, etc... Why wouldn't the one mentioned in the article that is 2 blocks away suffice? And we also know from some post here that this Imam has another mosque 12 blocks away.....
And Ms. Walsh doesn't mention where the money's coming from to build the mosque. Perhaps we should build it for them! We're already funding the Imam's travel expenses to break bread with other Muslims while Americans are hungry, broke, and jobless, what's another 100 million in stimulus tossed away! No worries...why not let the White House just openly fund the mosque . . .
I read or heard somewhere that once the plan is set fund raising for it will start if it hasn't already. You'll be able soon to send a check!
Since when do I get to decide about sending that check?
Click on the video - Keith hit the nail on the head.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/1 … 84272.html
The war in Iraq and Afghanistan has increased their migration to the United States. Emigrated Muslims will then be supporting the construction of houses of worship and community building in their new American homes....
So what is the problem with such development? We need to take responsibilty for our national actions abroad...
I personally will not let any person change who I am and what I believe in. I am an American, and I believe in the Constitution. They have the right to build their place of worship where they want. This is nothing more than a distraction from something else.
There are so many other worthy causes, that you can actually make a difference in than as an American attacking your own constitution. Religious freedom, is religious freedom, I wouldn't let them take it away from me. Haven't we lost enough of our freedoms because of those crazy people?
I do believe that there needs to be full disclosure of where the money came from. Its required of all of us when buying a car, a house, or getting a credit card. So that is fair. If the money doesn't come from a terrorist group, or a supporter of a terrorist group, then there isnt anything to discuss.
The USA was digging its own grave in foreign countries so far. Now, they are courageous enough to dig their grave at their own backyard by allowing a mosque at a disputed site.
9/11 will be remembered by all nations for all times to come. That incident has changed the face of terrorists, as well as USA. In future, those terrorists need not search for a place to initiate attacks.... because they are at ground zero. I think all other places will become zero in the coming years.
I understand that it's a Sufi sect that wishes to build the mosque. From studying a little of their history and beliefs in college, I can tell you that Sufism is the furthest thing in the world from the hard-line jhadists fueling terrorist organizations. These guys have been preaching tolerance, love and moderation for hundreds of years.
To tie the sufis in New York to Al Quaida would be like thinking a Quaker in Pennsylvania has much of a connection to an Irish Catholic bomber... hey, they're both Christian right?
Read up on news accounts from around the world and you find the jihadists bomb and kill sufis and moderate Muslims almost more frequently than they do government and US targets.
So in my mind, I can't think of a better way to thumb America's collective freedom at Bin Laden, than to have a sufi mosque be build on the sight of where he tried to terrorize a world into fearing some twisted version of his religion.
A sufi is a saint-like religious person, I understand. But will he pray for the welfare of people other than muslims? Will the jehadis allow a sufi saint to be hurt? When times comes, both will join hands and do whatever is possible to spread their religion. Conversion to Islam by terrorism and destruction is the jehadis' way and conversion by coercion and peaceful taming is sufis' way. Do other religions adopt such harsh ways like jehadis? After committing a terror by the jihadis, the sufi will pray for their welfare.
On television the other day, it was stated that the intended
construction site was not at ground zero, but 3 or 4 city blocks away. Is that correct?
If so, why do most of the people assert that the intended site is at ground zero?
What would you do if you were elected to office, and swore to
protect and defend the constitution?
Aren't we supposed to be a nation of laws?
Shouldn't we let due process take it's course?
maybe we should let anarchy reign?
If it was your church affiliation that was planning a project like this, would it run into the same reaction?
How would you react? Just some questions to ponder.
I've been struggling with this question, or one of the many like it, since the 'Ground Zero Mosque' began to make headlines. I think it's safe to assume that the knee-jerk reaction is to yell, "Hell no!"...
One of the things that makes this country great is the fact that we are all free to worship under whatever religious banner we choose... Hell, we are even free to not worship at all.
As an American, I think we tread on uneasy ground whenever we start to think along the lines of, "except when..." whenever we're talking about the constitution. We are guaranteed the freedom of religion.. not the freedom of religion, except when it makes us uncomfortable or angry.
However, I still remember the pain and suffering that was brought on by the attacks on 9/11... This is one of those issues that may take a while to reslove in my own heart, nevermind the political arena.
Jon Stewart on the "Mosquerade"==
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-a … sque-erade
Jack Lessenberry on the Mosquerade--
The mosque at Ground Zero: You could feel Democrats wincing all across the country when President Obama said he supported the right of Muslims to build a new mosque on land close to where the twin towers came tumbling down on Sept. 11, 2001.
"Let me be clear. As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in the country." This was immediately — and inaccurately — reported as saying that Obama supported building a mosque at Ground Zero.
What he said was that they have the right to do so, if they owned the land and were in compliance with local codes and zoning ordinances. That's the same position as that of the mayor of New York, Michael Bloomberg, who is both a Republican and a Jew.
But it's not a popular position nationally. Nobody is an easier target than radical Muslims, and the most universally hated people in the nation are undoubtedly the fanatic killers who hijacked those planes, nine years ago. The president was speedily denounced.
Democrats worried his remarks would make it even worse for them in the November elections. But in fact, the president was doing what we pay him to do. He was being a statesman, not a politician. CNN and Newsweek's Fareed Zakaria, the most intellectually impressive journalist covering foreign policy today, put it best:
"The debate over whether an Islamic center should be built a few blocks from the World Trade Center has ignored a fundamental point. If there is to be a reformist movement in Islam, it is going to emerge from places like the proposed institute," he wrote, adding: "We should be encouraging groups like the one behind this project, not demonizing them." That's what a sane person might call common sense. After years of idiocy, we have a leader who is on the right side of history. But if you can't stand sanity, don't worry.
Sarah Palin is waiting, you betcha.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/201 … _poll.html
Actually most New Yorkers support the right of the developers to build their Mosque, that's never been the issue, most though don't think it wise to build it on that location.
I question why so many keep trying to change the focus of the debate.
I think the existence of a mosque at ground zero will be celebrated as the monument in memory of the victory of so-called terrorists, against whom USA went to war and continue fighting it till now. It is upto the American people to decide whether to allow the mosque there.
Consider the following:
1. Why ground zero and why not in other places?
2. Is it not the practice of muslims to occupy some places of worship and convert them as mosques?.... like in Jerusalem? ... Like in Ayodhya in India? Like in Mathura in India?.... Like in Varanasi in India?
3. Do the Americans not aware of the fact that first stone is being laid to a long-lasting conflict between religions?
4. Do the Americans think it is right to construct a mosque by people who do not want other religious monuments in their own lands? Did not the Aftgan talibans destroy the Budha temple in Bamien?
Are we simply going to regurgitate the same nonsense over and over again..... More reading needs to take place before people jump out and start writing....
The pep rally of the frightened who can't see any side but their own because if they do their true hearts will be revealed as the petrified control freaks that they are. Left wing, right wing, I am wingless and tired of trying to fly. Here comes the ground.
The 'liberal' idea makes room for human fear, for weakness, for the bare desperation of what it is to be alive in this world, for the underdog and those who struggle for justice but don't want to live in the fear that breeds hate and blame and the exclusion of everything different. [Marc Maron]
What a planet!
Mosque developer won't rule out taking money from Iran to build mosque http://goo.gl/rNdL !!! America is blind to who its enemies really are.
It is a convention that America always sides with the loser. If America had some insights eversince 1945, the history of the world will be different by now. They have always sided with tyrants, dictators and installed military rulers wherever they liked. They never cared for democratic nations, peace-loving people.
At least from now, America should wake up and be sensitive to religious fanatics, whose aim is to destroy freedom and impose their religion on others.
I'm extremely tolerent of other opinions - but that's all you have. In all your tirades against Islam, you have offered not one IOTA of evidence to support your distrust of all Islam - that they are all bad - all set on the destruction of America. There's a million and a half Muslims living in the USA - where's the carnage if they are all bloodthirsty?
You are entitled to your opinion and your bigotry but they have no credibilty if they are supported by nothing more than hate and fear.
This is a forum to discuss things and not a court to produce evidence then and there. If you read the history of India (medieval/ modern) the muslim religion was all set to destroy the culture and civilisation of Indians. Even temples were destroyed and desecreted. Do you know? The main idol of Gods in temples were broken to pieces and road was laid on them. In Delhi, there is no Hindu temple worth saying.... almost all places are with tombs of dead muslim rulers. Just for laughing, a muslim king (Nadir Shah) slayed around one lakh soldiers who were kept prisoners, all chained. We all studied what their intentions were, past and present. If you want evidence, you may come to India and see the places where mosques and temples were built. They never built a structure of their own. They will just convert temples and make them mosques. In Kashmir alone, around 230 Hindu temples were destroyed by them. Please dont ask evidence.... you may come and see or read Indian history.
Some people come to a conclusion only after experiencing them.... not by reading or hearing them.
I never cease to be amazed at the ridiculousness that people post in these forums...
And too many Americans walking around slapping themselves in the face....
Hypocrites....learn to understand and follow your own constitution, and start using your independent minds before you write....
There is no controversy here....what is being built in New York is a created, manipulated non-issue contrived by real kooks to keep Americans arguing about nonsense while our rights are infringed upon and our treasure is diverted to private bank accounts through illegal, unconstitutional wars and other stupidity....
While I have seen fundamentalist Christians stand at the gated community of Lily Dale shouting and waving signs at the self-professed psychics and mediums for their blasphemy and abominations, can we actually not expect some similar but far more serious and severe repercussions at Ground Zero when this project is underway with other fundamentalists?
Qeyler manipulates truth, and demonstrates his/her lack of knowledge regarding Islam or history period through the characterization of Cordoba that he/she is expressing.
Cordoba did not represent the triumph of Islam over Christianity......what it did represent, however, was the creation of a society wherein Muslims, Christians, and Jews could live together peacefully.
Especially those who try to make deeper connections should first ensure that their knowledge is itself deep...
Read up on Al Andalus....a great start I would recommend is entitled Muslim and Jewish Otherness in the Spanish Nation-Building Process Through Reconquista, and can be read at:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15440844/Musl … econquista
"Do You Think it's Right to Build a Mosque at Ground Zero?"
By "right" do you mean "legal"? Morals are subjective. Law is not.
by Liberian1847 9 years ago
Even though I'm not Muslim however, I can't help but wonder if it is fair to hold all Muslims accountable for the deeds of other Muslims ( especially those extremist groups). Would'nt it be absurd to blame every living White man for the enslavement of Blacks? Or, do you call every German a...
by tobey100 9 years ago
A mosque at Ground Zero. How about a monument to Kamikaze Pilots at Pearl Harbor or a statue of Harry Truman in Hiroshima? It’s not a matter of religious freedom or race. It’s a matter of decency and common sense. There are plenty of other properties in New York City,...
by Doug Hughes 9 years ago
MURFREESBORO, Tenn., Aug. 28, 2010 "Federal officials are investigating a fire that started overnight at the site of a new Islamic center in a Nashville suburb. Ben Goodwin of the Rutherford County Sheriff's Department confirmed to CBS Affiliate WTVF that the fire, which burned construction...
by Elpaso 9 years ago
This is what it was leading to from the beginning. That's why I've been speaking out so much on this protest against the Mosque being built at Ground Zero. It was always a masked attempt to give a free hand to the Dregs of our society. A few of the 9/11 families have given the racist...
by cindybarrymore 8 years ago
Building the Islamic community center at Ground Zero on private property is a Constitutional Right.Correct? If not, then why? Please support your arguments with facts NOT emotions. Because we all know that more than just Christians died in the 9/11 attacks, correct? If I'm wrong, please tell me so,...
by sandra rinck 9 years ago
What do you think?
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