Do people REALLY believe this??

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   habeeposted 14 years ago

   I was fooling around on Youtube and somehow ended up on Nazi death camps. I was astonished at so many commenters who said that the entire Holocaust was invented - that it never happened. They said the Jews and the Allies made the whole thing up. According to them, the Nazis treated their POWs with kindness - much better than American and Brit POWs were treated. I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone!
   
   Sure, I had heard of Holocaust deniers before, but these comments made by "real people" were really shocking. Thoughts?

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      pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      well Iranian president went of records to state that holocaust was made up thing by brits to felicitate jews form Israel...doesn't make sense at all but does allow him to get votes ,it seems...there are many who say 9/11 was done by usa or 26/11 was done by Indian government itself...i guess there are lot who buy conspiracy theories ...it is strange human behavior but does exist ..

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         Sophia Angeliqueposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I think you summed it up, "It is strange humanb behaviour but does exist..."

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      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yes - some people believe this - or are at least prepared to persuade other people they should believe it. There have been ongoing fights in Germany over this and some teachers were teaching that it never happened in schools. There was a spate of history books produced that denied it - and they all vanished. Why? So in a few hundred years they can be touted around as throwing doubt on the holocaust "theory." I have been to a couple of these camps. I think it should be mandatory for all kids to visit them during their schooling. Including American kids.
      
      People will believe anything if it makes them feel better about themselves - no matter how silly. You should know that.

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         pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         well you make sure that you end up pointing at the thing which you love most

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            Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Absolutely. It is a perfect example.

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         habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I love you, too, Mark! lol (I don't gots none o' dem smile thangs)

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      couturepopcafeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This brings to mind the deniers of the 9/11 attack.  100 years from now people will say it never happened, it was a plan by the real estate owner to collect insurance money or something.  They deny now that there was any real intelligence to go to war and somehow it all became Bush's fault with Cheney the mastermind.

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      neverendingdreamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      They have no idea what they're talking about, it shocked me reading about this topic, don't take it to heart though, people believe what they want to believe and there is no point wasting your breathe with people who want to believe something so awful.

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      C.J. Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It's unbelievable that people can deny this. The depravity of Nazi Germany goes much further than the "holocaust". How they treated POW's, Catholics, Homosexuals, mentally handicapped, etc, etc was unbelievably cruel. The Japanese did much of the same to the Chinese and POW's. You do hear a lot about the plight of the Jewish people, however you don't hear as much about other groups. Like Mark said. Its about making yourself feel better. Nazi Germany was a great example of just how cruel we can be. Not everyone can handle that reality.

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      Shahid Bukhariposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I condemn, the Nazis, just as much as you do, perhaps more ... But, not by singling out their merciless butchering of 6 million Jews, in Europe, but also, the Allies, for their part, in the Butcher of "53 million" other innocent Catholics, Protestants, Animists, Buddhists and Muslims ... all humans ... in Asia, Africa, and Europe etc., during the Second World War...
      
      Equally condemnable are the acts of Marxs, Lennins, Herzls, Bin Ladens, Sharons, Pol Pots, Kims, and Bushes, etc., in the Present times !
      
      And, at the same time, I do not exonerate Jewish criminals like Einstein, and Oppenheimer for the Bomb, the Arms Manufacturing Corporations ... besides  Bankers, and Politicians, like Rothschild, Harry Truman, Joseph Stalin,  Winston Churchill, Mussolini, and Hirohito, for their criminally insane Acts of Senseless warring and Murdering on some idiotic Pretext..
      
      We should not forget, that there have been "many" Holocausts in human History ... and for anyone to deny, any of these butchering of the innocent, is equally criminal. But to single out one Holocaust, involving the Jews, during 1935 -45, for Remembrance, and ignoring or forgetting, all other Holocausts in human History ... is indeed a gross Wrong !
      
      Because, it helps perpetuate the Memory of a criminal ... Hitler ... more than of those, gassed at Auschwitz ... or killed at some German Labs, and starved elsewhere.
      
      Its time, People, learned from what brought about these Holocausts ... and do something, about removing the Causes, that lead on to the Butchering of innocent, non-partisan humans.
      
      This goes for all the Butchered ones descendents and those who may find themselves in Power in the Future.

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      uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      There are those that deny the evils perpetrated by Stalin and Mao, also.  Stalin's crimes dwarf Hitler's on scope and scale.

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      KFlippinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      They are indoctrinated idiots, or we are -- it is beyond comprehension.....but so is listening to Lawrence O'Donell spend so far at least 10 minutes quoting scripture on CNBC in order to trash Limbaugh tonight.  Lawrence is suddenly quite the liberal Christian, or so he would have one believe, it's like a religious channel......so, those that claim what they claim about the Nazis would be his mentors, the ultimate false teachers . . . so powerful at propaganda, so dogged at keeping it alive over so many years, that they have succeeded in convincing others the Holocaust never ever ever happened -- or so it would appear.

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   habeeposted 14 years ago

   How do they suppose all those films and photos of the victims were produced? And the comments seemed to have been made by Americans!

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      pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I dont know that ...i had asked someone who believes holocaust is brit -usa made...he told me that they could have hired actors for that or may be those people where germans in prison of brits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...now how does one deal with that?...strange...

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         couturepopcafeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         He should go talk to the few who are still alive.

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      Ken Crowposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ask General George Patton if it happened. Yes, I know he is deceased, but his Journals are not. Take a look at the photo's his photographers took and his video people took. No, it cannot be denied. Then while your at it. Take a look at the photo's of my two Aunt's that passed away a couple of years ago. Why would they want tatoo's are their arms? Yes, they were at a Polish Camp and Patton (if I am not mistaken) freed them. There were within a day or two of death.
      
      I am constantly amazed at how humans are capable of treating other humans.

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   2uesdayposted 14 years ago

   I wish I could believe it never happened because of what it reveals about what humans are capable of, but one of my parents visited one of the camps in Germany in the years shortly after the war and was shocked by it.
   
   In the Imperial War Museum they have cabinets filled with the possessions of the people sent to these camps.

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      habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It is scary that humans are capable of such cruelty. It's not as bad when one crazy shows up every once in a while, but this was done by hordes of demented folks! I know I'm going to have nightmares tonight. Maybe I'll just stay awake.

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   2uesdayposted 14 years ago

   Well then those actors must have been willing to starve themselves to play the part, you can see the ribs of the people on the film footage.

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      pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      quiet right...and how can one deny such thing when germans themselves dont deny it...i guess Israel factor is not too comforting for many countries and they seek conspiracy in it...

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      habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I was going to say the same thing! They also had to be willing to get disfigured and have a few teeth knocked out.

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   2uesdayposted 14 years ago

   I have seen people with the number they were given still tattooed on their arm which is what they did in the camps.

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   Mighty Momposted 14 years ago

   My dad was in the infantry in Germany. At the end of the war he went into one of the infamous camps. He went in after the prisoners were liberated. But he was stunned/haunted by the belongings -- eyeglasses, teeth, etc. that were left in piles.
   
   My son's grandfather lost most of his family in the holocaust.
   Don't anyone dare tell him it didn't happen.

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   sofsposted 14 years ago

   People have been made to believe this with all the antisemitic propaganda that  Ahamedinjha and the rest of those anti Israel propagandist are doing. I guess anything can be denied today and covered up despite all the proof. ...

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   Milla Mahnoposted 14 years ago

   http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p167_Webera.html
   
   may be an interesting reading on the topic, and well referenced...

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   logic,commonsenseposted 14 years ago

   There are plenty of people that will swear we never went to the moon either!  There are those that believe that the KKK is a benevolent social order!  Or the Mafia is a legitimate business!
   People when faced with the unthinkable will defer to whatever reality makes them more comfortable.
   Hey, I believe in Santa Claus!

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      habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hi, LC! I really miss believing in Santa.
      
      Hubby's ex-wife doesn't believe we went to the moon. She also doesn't believe that dinosaurs ever existed. Johnny took her to a museum to show her fossils, but she thought the "bones" were an artist's creation molded from clay. He never could convince her.

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         Jeff Berndtposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         It's astonishing what some people will refuse to believe, even upon being shown hard evidence.

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    literarychimpposted 14 years ago

    I agree holocaust denying is psychologically motivated, it’s not really surprising some people find it difficult to admit something so unsurpassably horrifying was done by humans. The deniers Bible is the Leuchter report, which makes various bogus claims all of which has been discredited.  It says, for instance, the aerial photographs of the camps show that they the chambers were not ventilated. They were, they had a sophisticated underground ventilating system. It states samples taken by Leuchter reveal they was more cyanide gas in the delousing facilities (where lice and other microorganisms were killed) than in the gas chambers which according to Leuchter surely indicates the chambers were not used for mass homicides. However, he was simple ignorant of the fact that it takes greater concentration of cyanide to kill lice than humans. And so on so on, all glaringly ignorant bogus claims which any specialist can easily discredit.

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       Jeff Berndtposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       The problem with having specialists discredit the claims is that the ignorant hate and fear the 'intellectual elite' and will take the expert's testimony as further evidence that the ignorant are correct.
       
       As a bit of anecdotal evidence in support of this theory, here's (part of) the reply from a fellow to whom I tried to explain a few points of grammar some weeks ago:
       
       "you can try to justify it with proper pronouns and adjectives and adverbs all you want."
       
       Twisted, right?

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          literarychimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Tut! I could never understand that, i always tuaght saying your viewpoint was a product of an "intellectual elite" would be a compliment.  I think, by and large, the world is controlled by what you could call an "ignorant elite".

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             literarychimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Jeez. I said taught. I'm no grammarian myself.

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          C.J. Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          There is a lot of truth to your comments. That's why Alied leadership required all the troops in the area's of liberated camps to view the carnage. They also required the citizens to burry the dead.

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    rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago

    there was a book written years ago, The Myth of the Six Million disputing the Holocaust. I never read it, but heard about it.
    
    I do have a copy of Night by Elie Wiesel, which is his chilling, horrifying account of what happened. It is one of the books that had an immense effect on my life. I know it is required reading on some high school reading lists. If you haven't read it, I  highly recommend it.

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       habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Night is a great read!

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          starqueen13posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          yeah night is amazing, really feels like you are there, or glad that your not

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          rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I think this book is really a must read, written so poignantly. I can't imagine someone not being moved his story. It amazes me what people imagine to be fiction when there is so much recorded history of this horrifying account. A visit to one of the Holocaust museums is a chilling experience and I know many teachers take their students on field trips to these museums. http://www.flholocaustmuseum.org/

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    Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago

    I know I will make myself unpopular but the atrocities of Nazi Germany should be taught in detail - along with the atrocities of Stalin and the atrocities of Mao - and the near genocide of Native Americans by the US government.
    
    The point is not to make Americans or Germans or Russians or Chinese feel bad about themselves, or their sins of their ancestors,  - but to make it abundantly clear that we are all culturally capable of unspeakable evil unless we guard against it.

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       wildernessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I had a friend about 30 years that visited Germany and toured a camp there.  It made quite an impression on him.  He never mentioned that it might be fraudulent, only that the smell was overpowering decades after the final use.
       
       He indicated that, at the time, all German school children had to tour one of these camps.  A grisly requirement for children, but one intended to end any chance of it happening in Germany again.
       
       I wonder, has that requirement ended?  Or do the Germans still make a lie of the concept that it never happened?

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    LeeWallsposted 13 years ago

    Many people will say what's convenient for them, I think I've said this before. There was a holocaust and Jews as well as many others were starved and taken to so called "showers" where they were "gassed" to death. Their emaciated bodies were dumped as if they never had value.
    
    Man has the potential to inflict damage on each other especially if their ideals are not the same. Look at the world around you; the chaos is insurmountable because everyone is fighting for power.

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    SpanStarposted 13 years ago

    Some people have tried to rewrite history for sometime now.  I don't know if it's really just ignorance or they just don't like the past so they want to write a history more accepting to their point of view.
    
    I've come to ignore these people because they aren't playing with a full deck.

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    Home Girlposted 13 years ago

    Some people who lived under Nazi occupation are still alive. Ask them, ask those who still remembers. Hitler wanted to rewrite history, to conquer the world, to turn the world into one big slavery camp, to eliminate the "inferior" nations. He was a mad man. Death camps were a reality, not fiction. He killed millions of innocent people. Only an ignorant idiot can deny that!

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    dutchman1951posted 13 years ago

    I am the Grandson of two German immagrants who left Germany during that time to come to the U.S.. I saw their pictures, heard my Grandfather explain it. My Grandmother was afraid to ever talk or speek of Hitler in the House. Even here in America she would say it is forbiden to speak about him.
    
    It was very real,it happened.

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    Olaf_Bloodaxeposted 13 years ago

    i guess in a sense that whole idea of the holocaust never taking place can be seen in psychology, some people block out bad memories and forget them completely but the holocaust it too big of an event to do so.

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    AEvansposted 13 years ago

    They are on some kind of hallucinating drug! To make comments like that is insane. I have a friend whose mom was a young girl in the holocaust and still has the number tattoed on her. She suffered mentally throughout her life , lost all family members but her and her mother and by the grace of God they survived. What a bunch of uneducated idiots!

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       Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Knew a couple. Owned a Mom and Pop grocery store when I was a teenager. They both had the tattoos on the inside of their forearms. Death camp survivors. I don't doubt that  they survived something horrible beyond words. I don't doubt it for one second.

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    HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years ago

    Don't see how anyone can forget that! Like Druid said it is horrible, and beyond words or even imagination. You can not even think what it would have  been like to be there.

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    Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years ago

    http://www.codoh.com/revision.html
    Check this out. You will see, just like the birthers, this is not just a handful of idiots like you would imagine. This is a large group of educated, organized and apparently virulently anti-semitic ideologues.

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       HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I just rather not, out of the respect of the survivors and the people who have died, I have no business dishonoring their lives by participating in garbage that people fail to realise what they have done to people. Even the people of Germany do not like to discuss it, and wish it to be put behind. I think we all know that it was major catastrophe, and more people than not get offended, because of what they went through.

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          Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Really, because I feel the need to point things like this out. Closing my eyes to it and pretending it doesnt exist or that it somehow isn't a threat is not something I consider respectful to the survivors, let alone to those who died.

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             KFlippinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Comparing idiots who deny the Holocause to Americans who question whether Obama was born in America, to the 'birthers', as they are called, is such a denigration of the entire issue.  They are no way comparable, that is a shameful topic to equate with the idiotic denial of the Holocause. 
             
             Also shows how desperate the 'birther' issue is becoming, I find that interesting.  I never questioned Obama's birth one second, now, that here in this little hubber spot forum of the world, you feel compelled to do this?  That is wierd, perhaps I am missing your point.......

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                Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Sorry, I thought the point was obvious. It was extremely obvious to me but of course I'm the one posting it so I hope you can forgive me if I was at all unclear. I have been trying to point it out and no one seems to want to do the twenty minutes of research to conclude as I did that the Tea Partiers and birthers are using the same shameless and brazen racist tactics that the Ku Klux Klan and the American Nazi Party have been using for years.
                
                btw, Holocause? that was a good freudian sliplol

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    HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years ago

    I'm not saying close your eyes, but if you put yourself in all those people shoes that took part in it, it is a very big sore spot in their hearts. I think sometimes there are just certain things in life that people rather put behind them and move on. This is one of those things that they have a deep wound about, it took them time to heal, and forgive, and some are still in that process.  Some may never forgive, it is your choice to talk about what you like, but I know those that were in the concentration camps suffered tremendously, great losses, family and friends, as well as themselves suffered enough. I'm sure if you suffered something so painful and dreadful you wouldn't want people to keep bringing it up in your face, helping you relive their memories and tragedies. You have no idea if one of them is on hubpages, or many of them, but if they were reading this what would their responses be to you. I think sometimes we can forget these things. Its not something anyone can ever forget, or deny happens.

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       Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       If any Holocaust survivors or descendants of Holocaust survivors are actually offended by my exposing of well-organized and carefully worded groups that call themselves Holocaust 'revisionists', then they are free to say so here or to message me privately.
       By the way, this whole discussion started when the OP was talking about encountering holocaust deniers in a youtube forum related to a documentary on the subject. She asked if people really believed this. Having done some research recently on the very subject, I felt I had relevant information to share.

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    HattieMattieMaeposted 13 years ago

    There was no problem with that, sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. Of course people  need to be aware. I guess it is no difference than when I did a presentation on genocide in Darfur Sudan. I just had seen other people making remarks about tv shows that people are saying stupid stuff.  No punt intended, you have to understand I'm from the social worker perspective and humanitarian perspective. Nothing against you!

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    Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years ago

    You didn't offend me at all. I just felt that you may have misconstrued what I was trying to express. And I felt the need to clarify a certain point.

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    brimancandyposted 13 years ago

    I think someone would have to be pretty sick in the head to make up something as terrible as the Natzi death camps. This considering that a lot of the photos and video of the people who were saved from those camps have been on record for years.
    
    The photos showed hundreds of people who were basically being starved to death. Not only that, but the recently released videos that have been discovered of hundreds of dead bodies being dumped into mass graves. Along with natzi videos of mass executions, that were later discovered, but never released for anyone to see. As people in the government back then, did not want people to see it.
    
    You also have to consider that someone who would be foolish enough to stage something like this, would think that anyone would want to see it. And, I don't think this is something that people would want to see, which is why a lot of the stuff that happened in the camps took many years to surface. The only people who know for sure, are the ones who were there.
    
    As for 911. That's something totally different. I can see a conspiracy there. I mean, if you were a terrorist, and you wanted to kill a lot of people and do something that would scare people into fear. Wouldn't you attack at the peak of the day?
    911 happened on a day when hardly anyone was at work, and a lot of the buildings that fell were empty. They say they lost somewhere around 2,000 people, and a majority of them were fire fighters and police who went to rescue people from the fires.
    
    If they had attacked when everyone was at work, the death toll would have been in the 10,000 range or more. Also, there have been reports that some of the buildings that fell, that were not connected to the twin towers, blew up from the inside. And, those buildings were all empty. Seems aweful suspect to me. If not a conspiracy, more like a terrorist connection...as we'll tell you when to be there...and we'll take care of the rest.
    
    I'm smelling oil.

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    hottopicsposted 13 years ago

    Brim,
    
    911 was not a conpiracy, no buildings were bombed. I was there I was a NY firefighter and the ideas behind the conspiracy are utter nonsense. Well over 3,000 people died that day, 343 were brothers. Man more have died from illnesses since. I to am having respertory problems. I was there on rescue and recovery details for 3 weeks. Let me ask you this, if Bush was incompetent as many say he was, do you think he would have been smart enough to plan and pull this off. Think of the thousands of people it would take to cooperate to accomplish this. I laugh at the explanation that the reason there were not many people in the building was becaused they were called and warned of the pending attack. Now if that was true, giving the way people are today, it would have taken less than 10 seconds for someone to call a news station, blabed it out and wanting to be interviewed. The reason is simple, One the time of the hit. It was before people were to be at work in ther office. 2, do you know how many thousands got out of the building before the collapse? You never hear about that. I could go on but it would become a book instead of a thread.
    
    
    

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