Migration and Assimilation

1. 59

   Dave Mathewsposted 13 years ago

   When will Muslims who have fled their own countries migrating to Canada and the USA., realize that although our two countries of Canada and the US. are with open arms permitting you assylum in our country, this does not permit you to demand to enjoy your traditions and legal system while under our roof.
   
   You if you desire to live here and stay here and make your home here, you must learn to assimilate into our society our traditions our legal system. If you want to stay, fit in. If not, then get the heck out cuz we don't need you and your ways, but you do need us.
   
   Every nation of people who resides in Canada or the USA., migrated here at one time or another and the country adopted the goodness from each nation. We will do the same with the Muslims but we will not tolerate nor accept their demands that we must permit them their ways, especially since they fled their ways to start anew in the nation of the free, North America.

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      livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Straw man argument.
      
      The vast majority of Muslims who have moved to the US and Canada want exactly the same things out of life that other non-Muslim immigrants seek, which is similar to what your ancestors sought when they moved to Canada.
      
      There are some belligerent, religiously-fueled radicals, but there are among others as well, including many homegrown ones. Think of all the violent militias, KKK, abortion doctor murderers, etc.

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   2. 70

      Quilligrapherposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Dear Dave,
      
      By whose authority do you presume to address Muslim immigrants on behalf me and other Canadians and Americans.  Are you not aware how few in North America thinks this way? Muslims living in North America are not demanding any other legal system. Why do you spread such hatred?
      
      Dave, before posting this trash here on Hubpages, you really should present it before an assembly of native North American Indians and ask them what they think.
      
      The definition of a bigot as found at http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bigot:
      “One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.”
      
      I hope you live a good life, Dave, and allow others to do the same.

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      Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Ya see, you can't have it both ways...
      
      you can't champion liberty, and then tell people they have to adopt to your ways...
      
      you can't say we've welcomed people for all over the world and incorporated what we deemed 'good' in their cultures, and then tell newcomers they have to adapt by becoming like the rest of us.
      
      What are 'the rest of us like', by the way?  Is your home the same as mine?  Is it our shared Christian identity that you want preserved? ... The religious services I attend are no doubt different than yours in many ways... which are in turn different than the Jews and Muslims et al who have been here for decades.
      
      Is it the style of dress that concerns you?  What my circle of friends wear is no doubt different than yours... and frankly, some of the more revealing fashions of the day are as foreign to that of days gone by, and are the cover up that Muslim women wear.
      
      Are you worried about Sariah law?  I've seen no organized attempt to overthrow or change the constitution or the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
      
      So what is it that you are really worried about.. that fact that some people act and think differently that you?  I can guarantee that if you were to export half the people in the country, that reality still wouldn't change...
      
      so I guess you will have to live to love it.. or hate it... but that is the price of freedom.
      
      You could, of course, move to an Islamic state that has the kinds of restrictive norms that you seem to be advocating.  Let me know how that goes for you.

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      paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Well, damn, we agree. Who would have thought?

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2. 78

   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   The borg assimilate, communities integrate--which is a two way process.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      That's crap since the borg are fictional. Mankind assimilates in society and muslims should learn to do this and not demand that we change our ways. After all they came here uninvited looking for our kindness and pity and generosity.

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      1. 61

         Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Muslims have the same right as anyone else to enjoy their traditions. In terms of demanding their own legal system, I haven't come across this before. Could you link to some evidence, for me to have a look at?

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         1. 59

            Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Rights have to be earned. They are not just given out. They constantly demand their sharia law (sorry not sure of the spelling) Under this law if a daughter embarrasses the family, the daughter can be killed. That's crap.

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               psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               "A right that is believed to belong justifiably to every person."

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                  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Rights are like respect, if you don't earn and deserve them, you don'y get them. Simple as that.

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Then I suppose your rights were earned? Not god given, considering you're of some sort of religious faith?

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         2. 59

            Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I guess you haven't heard of their Sharia Laws one of which permits the father of a family to murder his own daughter simply because she brought embarassment to the family. What kinda law is that. Or the law that states that a 13 year old girl must have her genitals mutilated and her clitoris removed to prevent the woman from enjoying any pleasure. The woman is nothing more than a baby making factory with no respect.

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         psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         If you don't think countries change as they incorporate new immigrant groups, you haven't been paying attention.

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      Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      

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3. 61

   tangoshoesposted 13 years ago

   Wasn't the US founded by misfits?  I reject your conformist message! Lol I understand your frustration but hate breeds hate and ignorance. Also Americans want to lump all foreigners into this huge catagory of terrorists. The problem comes from our own ignorance of other cultures. You shouldn't have to be a clone to fit in... Especially not in the US.

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   1. 59

      Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Before 9/11 I never gave Muslims any thought, but since, I don't and I can't trust a one of them. Every week the media reports some other vicious attrocity carried out by some muslim ranging from strapping on a bomb to kill others or even performing what they claim as a family matter when they kill their own out of disgrace.
      
      By the way I am a Canadian not an American.

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         psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Reported as hate speech

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         1. 59

            MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The whole purpose of this thread was hate speech.  Did you manage to narrow it down to a single post?

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            1. 59

               Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Melissa: It is not hate it is fear and distrust.

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                  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  That's what hate is Dave.

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                     Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Maybe you need to invest in a new dictionary Melissa?

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                        MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        You're right, I forgot to add ignorance in there too.
                        
                        Look, if I had more patience today I would try to have a reasonable conversation with you about this.  However from experience I have learned that bigots are bigots because they have to be to justify their hatred.  I have managed to convert exactly one bigot in my life and that was by giving him a member of the group that he hated that he couldn't help but love. 
                        
                        I don't know what to do for you... maybe if you actually thought of muslims as human beings that were just like you (except... you know nice and loving) maybe that would help.

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                        1. 81

                           Jason Marovichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           @Dave - try to get to know or befriend one or two Canadians who just happen to be Muslim.  I promise you that you will not be scared any longer.  The tiny percentage of Muslim extremists have succeeded in causing terror with you.

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                           1. 59

                              Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Jason: I do know a few Muslim people they live on the same apartment floor as me and they are nice people it is not them that frighten me it is those who would do harm and kill in the name of their God that scare me. It is those who believe that under their Sharia Law that "Honor Killing" of their own family members is "OK" and should be acceptable under Canadian Law. It is those who believe that it is "OK" to mutilate the genitals of their women, because of custom that I fear and worry about.

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                                 Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 FGM is not Islamic. It is more tribal. The more you write, the more you demonstrate that you are addicted to stereotyping and care little for the truth.

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                              2. 81

                                 Jason Marovichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 @Dave: I'm not informed concerning Canadian law, but I doubt any legislators write laws with many religious exceptions.  I could be wrong.
                                 
                                 Canada being democratic, the average voter would decide who to put into office to write laws, yes?  Unless controlling women is on Canada's agenda, I doubt anybody is going to get away with murdering one (if caught, of course).

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                        2. 59

                           Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Melissa: Please! I am no "bigot" I do not hate any person, but I do have fear for these people. I know for the most part they are good-natured, loving people,and I know that for the most they can be trusted and there is no real reason I should fear them but still I do. I have no problem with most of their ways and customs but "Honor Killing" is their way not the way of North Americans. Bording planes with bombs and rifles and knives, to crash the planes filled with innocent people into buildings filled with people is their way not the way of North Americans. Building bombs and attaching them to vehicles or even themselves to kill others is their way, not the way of North Americans. Yes I fear them and rightfully so.

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         2. 61

            tangoshoesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Honestly I really don't think this type of thing qualifies as "hate speech" but it will probably get taken down regardless. It's obvious that Dave has developed an opinion on something and he is sharing it with us. We can either turn him away or we can make sure he walks away a bit better informed. He has the right to think whatever it is he wants to and the great part about that is so do we! Hating Dave because he "fears" something just sounds silly!
            
            <3

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         tangoshoesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Problem is the Muslim religion is just as diverse in types of followers as chrisianity is. If you read anything about the religion it is an extremely peaceful and loving message. Just as there are crazy right wing Christians (nazis being one that sticks out) the same is true for Muslims. Just because the nazis were awful people and happend to claim they were christian dosnt mean we treat every blonde hair blue eyeed chrisian like a nazi.
         
         Belive me I do understand what you are saying and being an American and having had 9/11 occurred so close to home it is a nurve racking thing. I just don't think we can fight intolerance with more intolerance

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         1. 59

            Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I fear these people today and I fear what they might try to accomplish in North America which includes Canada and the USA. If they were seen as trying to fit in, trying to assimilate into our ways I would not worry and I would say nothing but they are not seen doing this but are seen escalating their attacks upon our society. I am scared.

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               mikelongposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               This fear should be checked in to...  If this thread is some kind of cry for help, the message has been received loud and clear...
               
               Don't be so weak-minded..

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         Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Dave.  Canadian, you say?  Please just speak for your vision of Canada.  Thanks. We are OK with the way things are here, south of the border.

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            Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Speak for yourself. I'm not at all happy with the way things are "here south of the border".

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               Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Well, if you choose to start a bigoted thread as an American, we'll have it out then. Dave, as a Canadian, is entitled to try to get Canadians to agree.

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         2. 59

            Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Emile: I'm glad to hear that you don't mind what happened at 9/11 and that it doesn't worry you. But It worries the heck out of me. What if they attacked the "Whitehouse" which was their plan at 9/11 then how would you feel?

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               Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               It's a matter of perspective Dave. I dislike Christian radicals as much as I dislike Muslin radicals. Should I dislike all Christians?

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      4. 70

         Reality Bytesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I knew Muslims before 9/11 and many after, I can say that I have never met a Muslim that was anything but loyal to family, polite, and respectful.
         
         They all seem to be living the American dream.  More then most native born Americans that I know.

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         1. 51

            Umer Aminposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Dave: I am a Muslim and i have been through your discussion. Your views about muslims as a whole and had a thought of various questions that came into my mind. But before that i want to ask one important question that what you know about Muslims as a whole with any solid evidence? If you know then share it with me may be i can get some thing out of it.

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               Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Who is Dave?
               
               
               The only evidence I have is my personal experience.  Based on that, I can say that every Muslim I have met has been kind, honest, respectful, family oriented, and compassionate.  This is not a statement concerning all Muslims, I do not know all Muslims.     I also despise labeling people by groups, my experience is with individual human beings, and it is from this perspective that I speak.

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4. 78

   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   I think OP is being outrageously rude to his Muslim fellow-Hubbers.

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5. 71

   Ralph Deedsposted 13 years ago

   The skinheads, militias and other hate groups in the US are a much bigger threat to the country than the Muslim-Americans. I live near Dearborn, Michigan, which has the largest Muslim and Arab community in the US. They are getting along quite well aspiring to success in their businesses and careers, sending their children to college, etc. I'm not aware of any clamor for sharia. They accept the fact that they must obey the laws of Dearborn, Michigan and the US. They appear to me to be assimilating much the same way previous groups of immigrants have done. Did it occur to you that one of the reasons they came to this country was to escape the most uncivilized, fundamentalist Muslim customs and strictures against women? Did anyone notice that the current "Miss USA" is a Dearborn Muslim?? She hardly fits the Muslim stereotype.
   

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      recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Wow !!!! - integration or assimilation,  call it what you like I am for it

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      livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly. Talk to any Iranian-American. Every one I've ever met, and I've met quite literally thousands, has been very much against the Islamic regime "back home."

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      ediggityposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      However, her family is allegedly tied to Hezbollah. 

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         Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Says who? I don't recall that being reported in the Detroit newspapers. What does "tied to Hezbollah" actually mean?

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            ediggityposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Just Google her name, and Hezbollah.  Tied means relatives where she's originally from are active members of Hezbollah. 

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               Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               No doubt Al Capone had good, hard working, law abiding Italian-American relatives and possibly others in Italy. If Fakih has relatives back in Lebanon who are affiliated with Hezbollah that says nothing about her beliefs or actions.
               
               Moreover, Debbie Schlussel is a far right blogger whose claims about Rima Fakih are not credible according to this source:
               
               By Shashank Bengali, Mcclatchy Newspapers – Mon May 17, 7:11 pm ET
               
               WASHINGTON — To win the title of Miss USA, Rima Fakih paraded across a Las Vegas stage in a nearly microscopic bikini. She skirted disaster when she almost tripped in her glittery white evening gown. Finally, she told the judges that health insurance should cover birth control pills.
               
               Fakih, a 24-year-old Arab-American whose family hails from Lebanon , has almost nothing in common with the religious zealots who inspire militant Islam. Yet the tiara had scarcely come to rest on her cascading dark tresses Sunday night when the far reaches of the right wing blogosphere went ballistic.
               
               Debbie Schlussel , a conservative blogger, charged that Fakih was a radical Muslim because she shares her family name with some officials in Hezbollah , the militant Lebanese Shiite Muslim group.
               
               The Jewish Internet Defense Force , a pro-Israeli website, proclaimed it "a dark day for America."
               
               Daniel Pipes , an outspoken neoconservative author and former adviser to Rudy Giuliani's presidential campaign, wondered about "this surprising frequency of Muslims winning beauty pageants" — he listed five examples in three countries since 2005 — and suggested that the Donald Trump-owned Miss USA pageant had bowed to affirmative action.
               
               Arab community leaders in Fakih's hometown of Dearborn, Mich. , have hailed her win as a sign of the diversity of their culture. For all the stereotypes of servile Arab women trapped in a deeply conservative society, Fakih's appearance alongside blond, blue-eyed contestants from Oklahoma and Colorado seemed to validate what Imad Hamad , the director of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee in Dearborn , said was "the richness of America."
               
               Nevertheless, by Monday afternoon "rima fakih hezbollah" had become a suggested search term on Google .
               
               Magnus Ranstorp, a Swedish political scientist and one of the world's leading experts on Hezbollah — Arabic for "Party of God" — said it was "ludicrous" to suggest that Fakih, whose family includes Christians and Muslims, is a Hezbollah sympathizer.
               
               With her low-cut gown and jewel-encrusted bracelet — not to mention the tiny bikini, "She would be flogged if she showed up in any of Hezbollah's neighborhoods in Beirut ," the Lebanese capital, Ranstorp said.
               
               If there was any doubt about that, it may have been erased Monday, when pictures surfaced of Fakih dancing in a stripper contest — with $1 bills stuffed into her tight-fitting top — as part of a 2007 Detroit radio station promotion.
               
               Fakih won the contest, according to the "Mojo in the Morning" radio show, and took home prizes that included jewelry, gift certificates, adult toys and "a stripper pole for home use."
               
               Even that revelation, however, did nothing to deter Schlussel, whose biography at debbieschlussel.com says she holds law and business degrees from the University of Wisconsin , and who last week wrote a post titled "Reason #883,254 Not to Eat at Muslim-Owned Falafel Shops ."
               
               Fakih was merely engaging in "deception of the infidels to further the cause of Islam/jihad," Schlussel wrote Monday.
               1 posted on Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:18:17 AM by MARenzulli
               [ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]
               
               Here's what Wikipedia has to say about Debbie Schlussel:
               
               "Debbie Schlussel (born April 9, 1969) is an American attorney, film critic, political commentator, and a conservative blogger who focuses particularly on Islam and American Muslims. Her writing frequently targets the largely Muslim population of the Detroit suburb of Dearborn, which she refers to as "Dearbornistan".[1] Her columns are often provocative and controversial, specifically those detailing what she considers the unsavory elements of Islam, the objectionable activities of American Muslims, illegal immigrants, as well as liberal and “faux-conservative” politicians."

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                  ediggityposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Hence alleged, I didnt say it did have anything to do with her beliefs or actions.  So far it it's merely an opinion that's yet to be investigated or reported on by a legitimate source.

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                  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  You mean she is an ignorant racist ?  surely not a source that a good kristian like diggie would be reading !!   I am shocked !

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                     ediggityposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.  Re read my post above yours, and then read your comment. I guess it also required a personal jab at my religion to get your point across.  It worked, we realize you can't spell correctly earthier.  Maybe that's why you're allowed to teach over seas. 

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                        recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        nothing hard to read there, perhaps you should refute the allegation instead of drivelling ?

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                           ediggityposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           No allegation.  I stated the claim has yet to be investigated or reported on by a legitimate source.

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                              recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Maybe this is why you are at the level of creationism, you get everything back to front.
                              
                              You do not refute YOUR allegations, you refute mine.
                              
                              You quoted the bigoted racist - not me.

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                                 ediggityposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 They are not MY allegations.  Additionally, I quoted no one. There are no quotation marks on anything I stated. It's ok, I understand you just want a reason to make fun of my religion.

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      Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      THERE'S AN  IED UNDER HER BIKINI!!!
      
      ... I volunteer to be the one to search for it....

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   AngelTraderposted 13 years ago

   For a supposed Christian this is a rather un-Christian comment Dave or maybe not considering some of the other extreme Christian views spread all over HubPages.
   
   I wouldn't label this as 'hate speech' per se, just a rather ill informed personal opinion that would of been better kept personal. I like tangoshoes solution...inform and provide a more rational, balanced view and enlighten maybe. Ummm...what would Jesus say?

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7. 89

   Paragliderposted 13 years ago

   @Dave Mathews - Why don't you take an overseas posting yourself and try living in a Muslim country? I'd suggest maybe Abu Dhabi or Qatar. What you'd find, after a while, is that most Muslims get up in the morning, eat breakfast, go to work, come home to their families, socialise with friends and neighbours, attend to their religious duties, and generally live and let live. The streets are far safer than most Western cities, with less personal crime. And the standards of politeness are noticeably higher too.
   
   You might go home a changed man.

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   Paragliderposted 13 years ago

   Then you've got Farah Malhass:
   
   
   She's a Jordanian bodybuilder, and quite famous.

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   Robbswaterposted 13 years ago

   Same in the UK except worse, they demand and they receive and its the do gooders who give into them. If you dare to say anything against them or their way's you are persecuted and risk losing your job. Most English people hate the fact that our Government has an open border policy, but yet to the rest of the World we are portrayed as open and welcoming. This is not true. They hate us just because we are a Christian Country and are forcing their beliefs and way of life onto us and we are being forced to bow down to them. It may not happen in my life but there will be a Civil War once our Country is divided.

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      John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I take it then, as you speak out against do gooders, that you're a do badder?
      
      Our government does not have an open border policy, on the contrary we have very closed borders. Neither does anybody risk their job for speaking out, unless they are in a position where that would be unacceptable, like a customs official.
      I know plenty of Muslims, not one of them hates us. A very few Muslims may have wrong ideas but, just as many English people have wrong ideas that's no reason to condemn us all.

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         Robbswaterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I have lived all over the World, especially the Middle East. There is a saying 'When in Rome do as the Romans do' When I am in a Muslim Country, I respect their Laws, their Customs, I dress respectable and I do not tell them how to live or demand Christian Churches to be built, or Animals slaughtered with a stun gun rather than having their throats slit, or expect the women to uncover their faces.
         When I am in my own Country England, I do not want to be told to keep out of Muslim controlled areas, I do not want to see animals slaughtered and bled in the gutters, I do not want a Mosque on every street corner. I want to get treatment straight away with a Hospital instead of being told to wait six months BUT if I was a Muslim  just arrived from another Country with a disease such as TB or liver problems I would get the best care the NHS could give.
         We the English people are being discriminated against in our own Country if we stand up and speak out about it we are branded a Racist.
         I do not care what color of skin a person is, what religion they are, but when they come to my Country I expect them to abide by our Laws and our way of Life, not to change us and not to oppress us. As for your comment about a do badder. You do not know me. I work hard, pay my taxes. May I suggest you come and live in one of the many Colonised areas of England and see for yourself. May I also suggest that you read the Holy Koran. Good and bad in all people.

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            John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I don't know of any Muslims that demand we build them Mosques! They generally get on and build them themselves with money they raise themselves.
            Oh, by the way, a Christian Church near me was fund raising to expand their church and quite happily accepted a large donation from the local Mosque!
            
            I can assure you that if you had TB or a liver disease there is no way you would be left for six months, that would be criminal.
            
            It's true that I don't know you but if you scorn people who do good, then it follows that you must do bad, doesn't it?
            
            And where are these colonised areas of GB? You surely don't mean ghettos where people congregate with like minded people for protection from bigots and worse?

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               Robbswaterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Sounds to me you live in an Ivory Tower and have never got to Travel.

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                  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Actually, I live in Manchester, in an area of ethnic diversity, or in your language, "wiv all them wogs"

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                     Robbswaterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Probably still living at home with your parents. Have a collection of books that you never read but have for show only Never held a real job down and  and studying Media Studies at a Poly come University.Your Muslim friends are the ones you meet at 'School' but once they are married under Islam they will not be allowed to associate with you. You come out with statements 'I have no problems with Muslims etc,etc BUT what you really want is a pat on your head for being a good Socialist.
                     I take great offence by you using the word W**gs, it is a word that should have died out years ago. It just shows you have no conception about this debate and yet again you deem anyone who speaks out freely is condemed as a 'Racist.
                     Remember what happened in London, 9/11? and all the other Countries that have suffered. As for treating people who bring in Disease into my Country, they should not be allowed in at all.  We eradicated TB years ago, now it is back and we the Tax payer have to pick up the tab, whilst our old people who have paid into the system all their lives have too wait for Hospital treatment.
                     I bet you have not even read the Koran?

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                        John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Do you remember what happened in London 9/11! Well no I don't,I remember what happened in New York but I wasn't aware of anything in London.
                        
                        And that's just about as accurate as the rest of your post, try reading my profile instead of wildly guessing at things to fit your stereotype.
                        
                        I don't always regard anybody who speaks out freely as a racist, often their bigotry is more apparent. And remember, bigotry or racism, either one can be challenged, you have no right to demand that it shouldn't be.
                        
                        Have you ever read the Koran? You don't actually sound as if you have.

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                           Robbswaterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Just shows how ignorant you actually are. Do not know what went down in London in 2005? I have three copies of the Koran in Arabic, English and French and as for your profile, no, I have not read it or interested in reading it.
                           Is it not time for you to clean your bedroom out, Mummy might not want to do it for you. So put your X Box down like a good little boy and run along.
                           
                           Leave this debate for the grown up's.

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                              John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              9/11 didn't happen in London. What happened in London happened 7/7.

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    Home Girlposted 13 years ago

    I am all for fairness. If this Miss USA is not allowed to walk like that in her old country,( and I am sure she is NOT),why these people should walk like that in mine?
    
    
    
    It's scary, especially at night. And I am far from insulting anybody. I just find it disturbing.

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       Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       The woman who has to hide behind a berka must be
       some ugly looking woman otherwise she wouldn't hide her looks but be proud to display them for all.

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          Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          ...and  flat chested or non confident women are the only ones who wear bras and tops

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          Home Girlposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          She might be as pretty as Miss USA, but she is not allowed to show it to anybody. It's cultural(religious) abuse, it's a shame. Nothing to laugh at. That law SHOULD be changed, not spread all over the globe.

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             John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             But what about the women who choose to wear it?

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                Home Girlposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                if you cover eyes of a new born baby with a dark cloth and keep him like that, this child will never see, he will grow blind. We are vulnerable creatures, so easy to manipulate, so prone to fear.

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    wyo barneyposted 13 years ago

    
    
    Add a veil and they look pretty similar to me.

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    Greek Oneposted 13 years ago

    That kind of thinking is exactly the type that prevails in countries which our immigrants are fleeing
    
    Rights are nothing like respect.. otherwise they wouldn't be called 'rights', they would be called 'earned privileges'

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13. 52

    adrian tagliettiposted 13 years ago

    We in Uk have bent over backwards to accomodate other ethnic groups/religions and it is bitting us on the bum! And if we speak up we are deemed racist, cant win.

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       Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       It's not biting us in the bum at all. Post a link to some evidence, and I'm not talking about pieces from the Daily Mail.

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       Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Your name sounds Italian?? Is is possible that you or your ancestors are immigrants?

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       John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       And I suppose you admire the English Defence League as fine upholders of our nations moral standards!

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          Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          The EDL are our nations shame.

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             John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Quite.
             Was I too subtle?

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                Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Apt, your statement was apt. I'm a bull in china shop, I'm afraid.

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                   John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   I can be a bit that way too Either that, or too subtle!

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                      Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      I'm always too bullish. Or I ask for evidence, either way I'm ignored.

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                         John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                         What! You don't get told your opinion doesn't count because you're either a leftie or live in the UK!

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                            Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                            When evidence can't be found, I'm ignored, a silly socialist, or from the UK. Either way, this is the avoidance strategy.

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                               adrian tagliettiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                               Cant stand the edl,bnp,daily mail,any kind of racism (although I have witnessed and been subject to racism over the years), as most people in the Uk I have european ancestry but you have to be wearing blinkers if you don't feel we(thats the British) are the ones slowly being repressed.

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                                  Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                  Oh I believe we are slowly being repressed, just not by the Muslim community.

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                                  Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                  BTW, a Muslim can also have British citizenship and are is therefore, British. I bet many British citizens who also happen to be muslim would agree that the "British" are being slowly repressed.

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                                     adrian tagliettiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                     As many of my muslim friends do.

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                                  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                  Yes, we the British (and that includes British Muslims)are being slowly repressed but that's not by Muslims.
                                  It's the Laura Norder brigade along with those trying to whip up hate and prejudice, generally "good" British citizens, that are doing the repressing. Helped, I may add, by the corporate capitalists.

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    Dame Scribeposted 13 years ago

    O yes, NA's can say a lot about assimilation lots of wrongs to address which is gettin done-slowwwwwwwly my adoptive parents lived next door to Muslims also, who were verrrrrrry curious about our family but they were very nice but yes, hearing about a man killing his daughter or wife in Canada of all places -even I agree just don't sit wellwith me and few other NA's. Talk to your MP send suggestions to improve knowledge of laws for immigration dept. Take action rather than rant about it is better. Will help you feel better

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    Ralph Deedsposted 13 years ago

    SHAME ON US!!
    
    Huddled Masses, Turned Away
    By ROBERT M. MORGENTHAU
    Published: October 27, 2011
    
       
    EMMA LAZARUS’S sonnet — “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free” — greeted generations of immigrants.
    Related
    
        Times Topics: Deportation | Immigration and Emigration
    
    But today, as we observe the 125th anniversary of the dedication of the Statue of Liberty, those words, inscribed at its base, have been turned on their heads. Many of Lazarus’s tired and poor may today be found in immigrant detention facilities, part of an enormous backlog of deportation cases that grows larger by the day. Last year, the Department of Homeland Security deported nearly 400,000 people; its secretary, Janet Napolitano, recently promised to increase removal cases to “historic levels.”
    
    Immigration and Customs Enforcement received more than $1.6 billion for removal and deportation in the last fiscal year. It can cost $23,000, by some estimates, to remove someone from the United States.
    
    Though it has assured Congress that it concentrates on those who pose a danger to public safety, the agency often deports immigrants guilty only of technical violation of the immigration laws. A study group based at Syracuse University analyzed 187,000 immigration cases that were completed in the 10 months that ended on July 31. Of those cases, 81 percent involved only procedural, not criminal, wrongdoing. Of all the accused foreigners, only two were charged with terrorist activities. Neither was ultimately convicted of terrorism, and the immigration court even granted one of them permanent resident status.
    
    Our restrictive immigration laws are bad enough — separating families, sending refugees like Haitians back to devastated countries, denying jobs to foreign students — but how they are administered is even worse. Some immigrants languish in privately operated detention facilities for months, denied any civil rights, until they are deported. Immigration agents profile people improperly, based on their apparent race or religion, detaining them at will.
    
    I first became aware of these ludicrous enforcement practices in May 2003. I received an urgent call on behalf of Julie Gavras, whose father, the filmmaker Costa-Gavras, is a friend.
    
    She had flown to Kennedy Airport to visit her father, who was directing a group of artists at Lincoln Center in a program to mark the forthcoming 2004 Olympics in Athens. She had a ticket to return to Paris in less than a week. The offense that led to her detention was her having overstayed a tourist visa years earlier. Representatives of the Greek and French governments, and other prominent people, called on I.C.E. officials at the airport, but each was told that “the law is the law,” and that Ms. Gavras would have to remain in detention until she returned to Paris.
    
    I spoke with the I.C.E. official at the airport and met the same refusal. I finally asked him, “Why don’t you treat her like an ordinary criminal? Parole her into my custody, and I will be responsible for seeing that she is on a flight to Paris in five days.” After conferring by phone with persons unknown, he reluctantly granted my request. Ms. Gavras was able to join her father for the performance.
    
    After that episode, I started paying more attention to immigrant detention and removal. I found that Ms. Gavras’s experiences have been repeated thousands of times. Unfortunately, there is seldom anyone to intercede.
    
    There was a time when immigrants were treated with compassion. Lazarus’s experiences at Wards Island, then a station for sick and destitute arrivals, sensitized her to the plight of immigrants and inspired her to give such a powerful voice to the statue. Let us honor Lady Liberty by heeding Lazarus’s stirring words.
    
    Robert M. Morgenthau was the Manhattan district attorney from 1975 to 2009.

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    Home Girlposted 13 years ago

    I've been reading what Ralf just wrote with tears in my eyes. It's so hard to be an immigrant, even if you are treated well. If you have been treated badly in your own country and come to another with hope, may be with last hope and have an abuse or just injustice again... but I don't blame authorities, there are so many of us legal and illegal, trying to find a new home, a better one. I was lucky, personally, I was never abused by the system (the abusive by itself) in my country or in Canada but I know people who were not that lucky.

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    Chris Brynnerposted 13 years ago

    Who cares about the plight of Muslims, Hindus, or whatever other non-western cultures who are invading our countries en masse?  I don't.  Some of you people need to pull your heads out of your asses and wake up to what's happening to your own cultures and stop being so concerned about others ...people who have no concern about you and yours (and even if they do/did, I really don't care).
    
    Call me a bigot, racist, ignorant or whatever your propagandized, politically correct minds can come up with ("ignorant" seems to be the standby, but in reality I have more education and experience to know about which I speak than probably anybody commenting here) - again, I don't really care.  What I do care about is the rapid erosion of Canadian, European and U.S. cultures that's happening right before our eyes, yet most people are so brainwashed with tolerance bullshit and ant-hate propaganda that they haven't got the sense or the balls to say anything about it.  Perhaps the warm fuzzies you get from taking what you perceive to be the moral high road makes you feel so intelligent because you're "tolerant" that you're willing to sacrifice your own culture and country for it.  I'm not.
    
    You people should have tears in your eyes, not for this "tolerance" BS, but that you've lost even the basic sense of preservation and advancement of your own people and cultures.  Other than weak, cliche insults about "intolerance", "ignorance" and "hate" there isn't one sensible argument why I should sacrifice my own country for these other people.  How propaganda and brainwashing can be so powerful that it can turn what should be otherwise intelligent people into compliant jellyfish is truly astounding.
    
    - A proud "bigot", "racist", "ignorant" western culture conservative ...and you will never change it.

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       mikelongposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Add "idiot" to that list for me..

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