National Emergency
Trump mentioned that border control and the building of a wall is a crucial matter.
Yes, he is right.
It is a matter of justice. The nation does not owe the citizens of other countries ANYTHING. On the contrary it owes it's citizens EVERYTHING.
And illegals are TAKING everything:
Resources, tax money, jobs, our customs, heritage and even our health! They will work for less and employers will facilitate their ability to lie, cheat and obtain jobs for less money than hard working, qualified, honest tax paying citizens.
It is a matter of great urgency and so, yes: Building a wall and stopping the influx of illegal aliens is a matter of great urgency which all Americans need to get behind no matter what their political affiliation.
... and by the way:
MERRY CHRISTMAS!They made the EXACT same false accusations against the Irish when they tried to migrate to the USA, and demonically persecuted they were by the frightened little snowflakey bigots of that time period just like immigrants of today are persecuted:
ALL ethnic groups have suffered the same level of Bozo Trump HATRED: It's a shame the Trump's weren't blocked from entering this country long ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7ML2hzsNboPut up the biggest wall you want. As long as businesses continue to use illegals, illegals will come here and find a way.
And of course that a wall might reduce the numbers by 99% is irrelevant, right? If a single illegal gets around, over or under the wall then it is a failure and a waste, even if it stops a million each year.
Is that how it's going to be spun?I didn't say that. I'm saying the wall won't stop anyone if they have motivation to come here because there are jobs for them.
I guess since Trump is pulling troops out of Syria and Afghanistan, he could use that savings to build the wall. That would be fine.
lol, it will be 'spun' like this, with the TRUTH: A $50 Ladder obliterates a 50 Billion Dollar useless pile of concrete border wall the kind China built centuries ago, and that's a fact as you can clearly see illustrated in the above image :
But don't worry wilderness, congress doesn't need to appropriate another penny for a useless wall in Donald Trump's empty head while he continues with his insane shut down which will hurt millions of Americans because the right wing crazies are 'go funding it' as we speak: They collected about 15 mil or so, So there ya go:You're pretty meme forgot to include the razor wire at the top. And the center. And the bottom.
In fact, your pretty meme is of an industrial ladder bolted to a concrete wall, which has exactly zero to do with any border wall. Pretty typical, I'd say - cutie pie memes far removed from reality that are supposed to have something to do with something.Oh yeah, and the machine gun turrets and land mines right ?? lol, and then republicans wonder WHY they were obliterated in the midterms by that Big Beautiful Blue Wave and why they'll get obliterated in 2020 again:
BTW: that $50 ladder in that image does indeed obliterate your useless 50 Billion Dollar pile of border concrete and that's just a fact: Or if $50 is unavailable, the big useless wall inside Bozo's empty head can be flown over which is how the vast majority of undocumented individuals arrive here, tunneled under or breached innumerable other ways: A wall is a waste and everybody knows it:
The objection is not to stop needed workers. It to stop, drugs, human trafficking, and yes illegal workers. Just not as simple as you stated. Workers can come in as needed by applying for a work visa. We have laws, why not follow them?
If there was not the "War On Drugs" the "Iran-Contra Affair" proved the CIA is the culprit behind we would not have that problem. A government intended act of Treason doesn't justify holding We The People of the nation hostage to government's doings in the first place.
There are two sides to this problem. Both are using the shut down to promote an agenda. The Dems are making every attempt to stop Trump from keeping promises he made on the campaign trail. It is clear he is keeping promises at a very good pace, and the Dems just can't stop him from solving longtime problems that have for decades plagued. Actually, even with all the stumbling blocks, nothing stops him. He is showing that Washington, Dems as well as Republicans have not been doing their job. It makes one wonder, why have we the people put up with this kind of governing? In all this confusion, I have one question for both sides - Why? Why has our deepening immigration problems not been solved long before Trump? Why do we the people put up with this kind of governing? We appear to be fooled, do we not?
If the Dems give, what guarantee do they have Trump won't shut down the govt every time he doesn't get his way, Shar? And do you want future POTUS--could be a Dem you realize--to do this as well? It would create a precedent with dangerous conditions.
I guess we just have a different opinion on the need for problem-solving in regard to immigration and the problems that are occurring due to lack of 30 years of letting it reach this point. I had no problem with a government shut down due to the importance I put on the need for immigration reform. However, I at this point feel it time for the president to go the route of using his power to solve the crisis and open the government. I would be very disappointed if he goes down the path that other president took. I just do not have the ability to look the other way due to government ineffectiveness. In regard to your question. No, I would not appreciate a president that shut down the government every time he does not get his way. Just as I don't appreciate a congress that has done the same. The Dems are ultimately doing the same thing you accuse Trump of doing. But they are obstructing just to obstruct. You are well aware most of the Dems that are fighting Trump have previously supported a barrier, and immigration reform, You also must realize they have accomplished nothing in many years, and their attitude is certainly not productive. I wonder why no one asks the question - why has the growing immigration problems and all that comes with it not been solved in so many years? Are you satisfied with once again sweeping the entire mess under a carpet? It's time to try something different. Do the Dems want Trump to yet fix another problem? That is clear, no... Will they stop him, no... Will the country benefit? maybe... Do I worry about Trump shutting the government each time he does not get his way? No, I don't worry about "if comes". If I witness a shutdown that I feel is not warranted I will be the first to complain, and see it as a problem, and possible grounds to remove him from office. I see such a pattern of some worrying about "what if". Perhaps this is a problem? Why not think what this long time problem is solved.
Do you not see how the Dems giving in to Trump would set a precedent for future leaders? How can you justify this? It would cause every little problem a POTUS had to hold the govt hostage. You're smarter than that, Shar!
To me, it's not about giving in. It's about not coming to the table and confronting a true longtime problem. I guess we have different opinions I see a very serious problem, not only due to all the social problems illegal immigration has and continues to cause but the cost that all of these problems are being paid for by us. It is obvious you don't feel we have a problem or a severe problem due to what I listed. I respect your opinion, but can't agree. I am a very common sense. I can't get by what's in front of me. I want this problem fixed or as I said some improvement. I am not willing to urn away from it once again.
So you're okay with a POTUS shutting down the govt.--Trump owned it as you know--to get his way in the future? Okay, got it!
I would say it is because most citizens know only the preamble and almost nothing about what's in the constitution so how do we expect We The People to act? In public schools Civics isn't taught any more where students learned ab out tithe Constitution, Sharlee, and in law schools the constitution isn't taught. What else can we expect from an ignorant public?
Yes, one only has to look to the constitution to see is really responsible for trying to our country's problems. . "The Constitution specifically grants Congress its most important power — the authority to make laws. A BILL, or proposed law, only becomes a law after both the House of Representatives and the Senate have approved it in the same form. The two houses share other powers, many of which are listed in Article I, Section 8. These include the power to declare war, coin money, raise an army and navy, regulate commerce, establish rules of immigration and naturalization, and establish the federal courts and their jurisdictions."
Do you think our problems with immigration will fix themselves? I agree not many really have studied the constitution, they get a skewed version from media. One network says one thing, one says another. I guess that is a big problem when it comes to solving our problems. Some just do not recognize them, and whose job it is to fix them.
http://www.ushistory.org/gov/6a.aspSo what news source do you trust to give you the proper info, Shar?
In this case, I used USHistory.org/gov.. Aa a rule if I need statistics I use government sites. I like several sites for unbias news. I like Washington Times seems to keep it real. Another good resource is Youtube. One can pull up not parts of let's say an interview but the entire interview. I like to hear it for myself unfiltered. This affords me to draw an opinion on what was said and pick up clues to a statements context. I don't like how media skews things to suit an agenda. I want to see and hear a conversation in its entirety. All that can offer insight into the meaning of a given statement. You would be very surprised how much media skews truth. It seems they do little fact checking anymore, and then there are pundits that just say anything... CNN just last night walked back a story on a guest that claimed her son lost medical treatment due to shut down. The institution alerted them the woman's story was false. This happens on all networks, I am not singling out CNN. I used this scenario to explain why one must do research other than network media. It would be hard to list all my reference sites and would seem a waste of time. I form my opinion by reading several accounts of a given subject.
I might ask, did you find ushistory,org/gov not a sufficient outlet to use in regards to a quick easy resource on the Constitution? It is very evident many are misquoting the Constitution and in many cases the meaning of certain parts to suit a narrative.
True, this nation doesn't owe any people from any foreign nation, Europe, Asia, Africa, the middle east, South America, the south Pacific or Canada, but owe it to its own citizens but the problem comes from paying the South Americans much lower wedges than they do people from other areas of the earth. Trump has South Americans working for lower wages here on work visas when there are millions of US citizens needing work, he should first hire US people paying US wages before applying for work visas for South Americans. It is because of what Trump, as so many others like him, are doing that they chose to enter the US.
If the US government was concerned about her citizens, as the name "United" in the Constitution and Article 1.8.1 reveals, they would ensure every employable US person was employed at EQUAL US wages no matter of what their position in the company is. How does a company expect unemployed people to purchase their goods when they don't have the wages to do so, on credit which cause them to pay sometimes twice as much for the product that is worthless by the time they completely pay for it?
The urgency is for every US citizen to be concerned about every every other US citizen which would not leave open jobs for legal or illegal immigrants to c one in and take. The Constitution's reading suggest no classes by intending to "form a more perfect t Union" so why isn't every US citizen concerned about the "general welfare" of all citizens? Isn't it because this nation, even after writing the constitution, never implemented it and grew farther and farther away from it intent to the point that they wrote, without a Constitutional congress, the "make the nation Corporation constitution" it is using rather than one they provide everyone to deceive them that is what the government is doing.
I agree, there is a "National Emergency", the entire government has violated their oath of office so how do we eliminate it?
I hope everyone had a Joyous Holiday Season, I enjoyed mine.Questions, Nature Boy:
"The urgency is for every US citizen to be concerned about every other US citizen. We should not leave open jobs for legal or illegal immigrants to
come in and take."
" jobs for legal ...?" why not?
why the heck not, if the immigrants are legal? Surely you make a mistake here in your writing.
" ... the entire government has violated its oath of office, so how do we eliminate it?"
you want to eliminate the government? or the politicians there-in?KHL, I'm not talking about the legal immigrants who are living here, I'm talking about those who come here on work visa then go back home to be invited again.
Today's government isn't following the constitution and everyone in it has taken an oath to protect it which has never been used except to controlling the people when it reads We The People are to control our "Public Trust" or governors. Because they have the policy in place saying subordinates can't correct their superiors what I'm saying is - except in the intelligence and security sections - only those in leadership positions are to be eliminated.
Its a matter of spiritual idealism vs practical reality. We can't take care of the world at the expense of our OWN.
Thank you, it is AMERICANS first. Taking care of others is why America is in debt. Take care of needy Americans, forget about the rest. Let other nations take care of their own!
Show me any statement by anyone that implies that we should use our resources to help illegal aliens at the expense of citizens. I'm pretty sure nobody believes that.
That said, I also think that most people would agree with the idea that, given there are unemployed people in this country, our own citizens should have the opportunity to get the jobs that are being given to illegal aliens and/or new immigrants. There needs to be some kind of rebalancing there, but that would be expensive.
Relatedly, I listened to a story on NPR about how, in Southern India in a district/state called Carola, none of the people want to climb trees to pick coconuts even though it's one of Carola's main crops. The people want office jobs.
Isn't that one of our basic problems here? The jobs performed by illegal immigrants are the ones our own citizens just don't want to do? It's easy enough to say "well, beggars can't be choosers". It's an interesting conundrum."Show me any statement by anyone that implies that we should use our resources to help illegal aliens at the expense of citizens. I'm pretty sure nobody believes that."
How about the Oakland mayor that warned illegals of impending ICE visits?
How about states providing free/subsidized secondary education for illegals?
How about states providing drivers licenses so illegals can use the roadways?
How about states providing millions of free school lunches to illegal aliens?
"Undocumented immigrants can receive WIC as long as they live in California." http://cms.sbcounty.gov/wic/DoIQualify.aspx"
While it's popular to claim that illegal aliens do not get any welfare it is an outright lie.
"The jobs performed by illegal immigrants are the ones our own citizens just don't want to do?"
No. It is not one of the basic problems here, and illegal aliens do not do only jobs our citizens don't want to do. This is another flat out lie perpetuated by the liberal circus out there but there isn't even a hint of truth in it.
I have personally watched as illegal workers leave jobs when ICE shows up; workers that are then replaced with (sometimes) unionized, American workers in just 24 hours. The problem is not that Americans won't do the job; it is that employers are paying not only substandard wages but sometimes illegally low wages to illegals.
There are jobs that are primarily held by illegal aliens, notably farm harvest work. Pay a decent wage, provide for something beyond migrant work that lasts only a few days and Americans will work.Illegal aliens should not receive any government benefits. Presumably we can all agree on that.
You and I agree to a partial solution to this, which is that business paying substandard wages in order to employ illegals should be punished to a point where it is not advantageous for them to do that.
That said, I think many people are concerned about drawing a line between the people who are already here and those that are not. It's hard for politicians to take people who've been here, sometimes for years, and send them away, particularly when they are contributing members of society.
That said, I can see the frustration with this issue. It simply has to start with a concerted effort to punish businesses for hiring illegals. This is where Republicans are responsible, because it's almost always Republicans who push back on this enforcement. Democrats are responsible for perpetuating a welfare state that has not boundaries. That has to stop as well. Tightening the reigns on who gets any kind of benefits needs to happen too. No driver's licenses. No welfare. No services of any kind paid for by taxpayers.
I do suspect though, that if we really tighten those reigns, prices in a number of areas will skyrocket and people will reconsider all of this.
Paying fair wages is something all of us can get behind though. And it's pretty obvious that illegals are exploited in this way.
I do think that American citizens generally don't want to do the work that illegals do. You would probably argue that when you're in a position where you're unskilled, it may be easier in places to take government benefits rather than work. This obviously needs to stop. Government help should be short-term.
That said, there are situations where people cannot work.
Your link didn't work. Here's one that does, and Wilderness is correct:
http://cms.sbcounty.gov/wic/DoIQualify.aspx
I do wonder, given what I've seen in California, if the state determined it was cheaper to provide the benefits as opposed to deporting everyone and watching prices rise.
Say, you live in California and you're paying $100/year to support illegal immigrants through taxes, but the government has determined that you'd pay $1000/year in increased prices if they deported everyone. Which would you rather do?
Personally, I'd rather straighten the problem out first and then work forward to provide work visas and things as needed.I found this document about what immigrants can get and not get:
https://immigrationforum.org/article/fa … -benefits/
This statement adds to what I am saying about the calculus:
Additionally, a few states have completed studies demonstrating that immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in government services and benefits. A study in Arizona found that the state’s immigrants generate $2.4 billion in tax revenue per year, which more than offsets the $1.4 billion in their use of benefit programs. Another study in Florida estimated that, on a per capita basis, immigrants in the state pay nearly $1,500 more in taxes per capita than they receive in public benefits.Hi there Crankaliciuos,
I am drawing from memory, but I think. in that 'illegals pay more taxes than they cost in benefits' argument you will find the majority of those taxes they pay are payroll taxes and state sales taxes.
Wouldn't that same money still go to the states if a legal worker was doing the job?
GAI don't know. That was a quote within the link, I believe. It's just interesting calculus and a possible explanation why states are willing to provide certain benefits to illegals.
Since the federal government isn't doing it, if you live in a state that doesn't provide benefits for illegals, I'm not sure what you would have to complain about.
I do know people in California who are otherwise liberal who are fed up with the illegal immigration problem.
I just found this interesting factoid: it's possible that 50% of illegals are those who overstayed their VISA. So they were here legally at one time. That's a problem the wall would not solve.... we are restricting those who would sneak in. How many are these?
The problem is big. Why focus on a small detail which needs to be addressed as a separate issue?
The overstaying the VISA issue could account for half of all illegals. How is that not big?
It possibly could. It probably does not. Which is how it is (probably) not nearly as large a problem as sneaking across the border.
Plus, of course if we assume that they ARE the bigger problem and ignore the ones crossing illegally they won't remain the bigger problem for long. Maybe a year, maybe not.I would assume if you were going to pick a group to focus on, it would be those crossing the border illegally since those on overstayed VISAs are probably working.
I'll repeat a previous question though. Shouldn't there be a more advanced solution for this problem than a wall? Like a laser wall!Now why would you assume that we should not care about those holding American jobs and gathering entitlements? Seems to me it is a two pronged problem that requires a two pronged attack - deportation (or job loss, which I prefer) AND a secure border.
Perhaps there is. What is it? So far nothing has worked - the illegals continue to pour in, hundreds of thousands every year, in spite of everything we do, and now we have liberal cities and states welcoming them and aiding them in avoiding what laws we have!Wilderness, those are valid points. But, what if our laws were changed so that the applicants weren't afforded access to our country prior to their application being adjudicated?
What if we didn't have to allow them free movement in our county before their application was processed?
Why are the honest applicants that follow the rules and wait years for judgement ignored?
GAAs far as I know we do not have to allow free rein until their case is heard. The UN may disagree, but I know of no US law that says we have to. And I know that other UN signatories don't follow UN guidelines either - why should we?
Why does it take so long? IMO, for two reasons: we are overwhelmed by the numbers claiming refugee status and there is such a high percentage of illegals being taught to claim it without any basis. Between the two, we have little reason to put large amounts of resources into investigating the claims. Unfortunate for the few that really HAVE a valid claim, but then it is usually the majority that ruins such things for the minority.You are right about the specifics of our primary immigration laws. Far from giving them free access, the law says we must detain them. Or return them to a safe third country if we have an agreement with one.
However, it has been subsequent legislation and court decisions that forces us to, for most purposes, give them that free access to our country.
Technicalities vs. reality, yes, I think our laws do force us to "catch and release." Even if that release is delayed for twenty days.
GA
I was just responding to Kathryn who didn't seem to think it was a big problem - overstayed VISAs.
Again though, shouldn't there be a more advanced solution than a physical wall? It's very passive. How about something active?Well, my vision of a wall is a physical barrier coupled with a good deal of electronic surveillance and rapid response teams of border patrol with force up to and including deadly force. Not passive at all, then.
Do we have the technology to detect tunneling efforts? I think so, and would support simply shutting them off, with or without people in them, via a small bomb or other means. A passive, unmonitored, wall is useless as ANY structure can be gotten through, under or over given enough time - a wall is useful only in slowing efforts until force can arrive to stop it.Does your vision include Mexico paying for the wall as Trump promised? Just curious.
That is your contribution to this thread - a jab at Pres. Trump's claim that Mexico would pay for the wall?
If you were really curious, you might have asked what type of electronic surveillance he, (Wilderness), envisioned.
Or, you might have countered the "wall's" effectiveness. Or, you could have spoken to other deficiencies of a physical wall.
But no, your response is a jab at Trump.
I know, it seems I am attacking your contributions again. And I have tried to abstain from addressing your comments, because of that perception. But, sheesh ... low hanging fruit is hard to resist. Gimme a break promisem.
That's the best you can do?
GANo. Although I might reduce the aid to that country and use it to help defray the cost as they refuse to help and, in fact, aid border crossers. IMO.
Or were you just taking yet another poke at Trump and didn't want an honest answer?
Ha! A laser wall! Like you get zapped like a bug in a bug light?
Just kidding Crankalicious. I agree with you. I think technology, not concrete, is the answer.
Someone, (it may have been you), in another thread brought up the "melting point" explanation. Which is at what point do illegal border crossers become invisible - in a dessert crossing or an urban crossing?
I think technology is the answer, not concrete, (or steel slats). But, I do support fencing in some areas. Just take a look at some of the Rio Grande crossing videos and I think it would be hard to argue that some type of fencing wouldn't be a benefit.
GA
Hey bud. I went looking for information to debunk that 'over-stayed visa' thing, and I couldn't find it. Around 42% seemed to be the consensus, so claiming 50% isn't so wrong.
But ... that doesn't negate your point. I say that because of the implications, not the reality, of illegal immigrant impact.
Regarding over-stayed visas, we are looking at some kind of Gestapo 'papers please' solution. What else could there be? But, regarding illegal border crossings, we are looking at in-your-face immigration law violations. Or at the least, immigration law manipulations.
I prodded Crankalicious to start a thread on this, I bet you would participate, as I would.
GAThe papers please scenario has been proposed and, in a minor way, already implemented. It is illegal to work, for instance, for those people over staying VISA's. Require it for school and other forms of "employment" as well and the problem is solved...IF we institute an effective and useful E-verify system. Papers please for all, which is pretty much what we have now but do not use or enforce.
"More than 600,000 foreign travelers who legally entered the United States in 2017 overstayed their visas and remained in the country by the end of the year, according to Department of Homeland Security. It marked the second straight year that more than 600,000 visitors stayed past the expiration of their visa.
DHS data shows that illegal immigration across the southern border is at historic lows – slightly more than 300,000 immigrants were caught crossing the border in 2017. That's down from a high of 1.6 million in 2000, according to Border Patrol data."
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/08/07/dhs … tay-report
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-b … ion-fy2017
I wouldn't consider that as a "possible explanation" crankilicious, but, that is just a thought, I don't have contrary information. I just think the reality is that that, (don't you just hate those "that that" sentence structures), is a rationale rather than a justification.
As for your "factoid," I jumped at the chance to debunk it. However, given that Google couldn't offer me any recent credible information on it, and the dated information supports it, I think it would make a good thread topic. I will participate.
GA
The country owes its employee's their wages and the Democratic process it's respect. If he can't get the votes, then his bill does not pass. Holding the government hostage should not be an option.
Ordinarily I would agree with this, and in fact took offense in the past when it happened.
But in the climate we have developed over the past few years, the hyper-partisanship we see today, it seems have become the modus operandi for presidents with a hostile congress. How many times does it have to happen before we accept that it will happen again and give it the thumbs up?
It's all just a political game anyway - Democrats can now hold the president to blame, screaming out that he shut down the country, just as was done in the past. And far too many people are gullible enough to swallow the claim (or it's opposite) at face value, giving as a reason their like or dislike of the current president.Well, he said he would be proud to shut down the government and that he would take responsibility, so why should anyone else pick up the blame?
I must agree. I also feel if the president does make headway on cutting down drugs from coming into the country, the crime that occurs from drug uses as well as rids our cities of cartels and gangs, not to mention decreases human trafficking He can be very proud that he fought so hard and kept his campaign promise to the American people. The people that voted on his agenda... No, I would think it foolish for the Dem's to make any attempt to take credit if president Trump solves a problem that has plagued the USA for over 30 years.
I just tweeted * @realDonaldTrump Why don't you open the government and congress ask We The People to vote on what we want. That is the Constitutional thing to do. Because you haven't all government 3 checks and balances are have violated your oaths of office. Per Amendment 10 Open the government * maybe that will put some heat under somebody to get it open again. Look for @0natureboy if you want to retweet it.
we are a republic with representatives of the people who the (majority of the) people have elected.
So why didn't Trump, Ryan, and McConnell build the wall when they had a majority. Please spin this if you can!
This is a good idea. Although so many are not aware of the facts on what is taking place due to the lack of enforcing our poor immigration laws, as well as our decaying border structures. What it is costing to continue down this path versus fixing our immigration problem. Before voting one should be made aware of statistics. Which should include the cost of illegal immigrants that are already in the country, the crime that is associated with illegal immigration, the numbers of our citizens affected by the drugs that enter the country illegally( the death due to illegal drugs is astounding). The undetected diseases that are on the increase due to the illegal influx. I was shocked to see the drop in illegal crossings where we have good structural barriers. And lastly, the cost of a good barrier versus the cost of just leaving the status quo. This problem should have been handled long ago. It just stands to make us look foolish as a nation. We have a bigger problem than a wall. We have a Government that looks foolish and literally gets little done, and we as a public are being dummied down, and are not even aware of that fact.
With the majority of drugs passing through lea gal points of entry, how is a stupid wall going to end the problem? Do tell, Shar?
They are not going through the legal point of entry. Prove it.
Just where in this link does it say the drugs came in through the desert and not through the legal points of entry. Or are you Trumping it?
I included the link to reveal that there is a problem. A big problem which a "wall" will help solve.
"Data on drug seizures at the U.S. border indicate an alarming volume of trafficking taking place in recent years. Since 2009, heroin seizures at the southwestern border have almost tripled, while meth seizures quintupled through 2014. Worse yet, cocaine and marijuana remain two of the most commonly seized drugs along our southern borders, equating to millions of pounds seized by U.S. Border Patrol.
These figures help paint the broader landscape of drug overdose and abuse reaching record levels in the United States. In this report we’ll examine the scale of substance seizures and the increase in trafficking over the last decade to gain a better understanding of how trafficking of illicit drugs has influenced the growing drug problem in America."
https://drugabuse.com/featured/drug-tra … s-borders/It won't solve anything. The drugs will keep flowing through the legal ports of entry and a wall won't help that in the least. Where do you get your "facts" from?
How do you believe you're helping things by posting propaganda? Don't you identify yourself as a Christian, Kathy? But then, I've never met a Christian who actually recognized the truth when it hit them up side the head!where do you? and how do they get through do you suppose?
"Data on drug seizures at the U.S. border indicate an alarming volume of trafficking taking place in recent years. Since 2009, heroin seizures at the southwestern border have almost tripled, while meth seizures quintupled through 2014. Worse yet, cocaine and marijuana remain two of the most commonly seized drugs along our southern borders, equating to millions of pounds seized by U.S. Border Patrol."
If that's true, the CIA are sending them so if they are caught they can fill the empty prison cells for more corporations to get a share of the "prison's slave labor."
Apparently you have a comprehension problem as I've repeatedly told you drugs from Mexico enter through the legal points of entry for the most part. Are all Trump fans this hard to educate?
"The majority of illicit drugs into the United States across the SWB using a wide array of smuggling techniques. (1) The most common method employed involves transporting illicit drugs through U.S. ports of entry (POEs) in passenger vehicles with concealed compartments or commingled with legitimate goods on tractor trailers. Additionally, Mexican TCOs transport illicit drugs, such as methamphetamine and cocaine, (2) dissolved in liquid solutions, across the SWB. Once across the border, Mexican TCOs coordinate for illicit drug shipments to be divided into smaller shipments and sent to distribution points throughout the United States.
Other cross-border smuggling techniques employed by Mexican TCOs include the use of (3) subterranean tunnels, which originate in Mexico and often lead into safe-houses on the
U.S. side of the border.
Mexican TCOs also transport illicit drugs to the United States (4) aboard commercial cargo trains and passenger buses. To a lesser extent, Mexican TCOs (5) use maritime vessels off the coast of California. Mexican TCOs (6) also rely on traditional drug smuggling methods, such as the use of backpackers, or “mules...
Mexican TCOs exploit (7) various aerial methods to transport illicit drugs across the SWB. These methods include the use of ultralight aircraft and unmanned aerial systems (UASs), or “drones,” to conduct air drops.
https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files … 7-NDTA.pdfThanks IB, you just cost me an easy grand from a susceptible Trumpster! There's not many left to take advantage of these days.
There are many other ways besides crossing the border, obviously. The border wall would prevent human and drug trafficking. It would stop the incessant striving of so many people, including women and children, who attempt to travel across the sweltering, treacherous Mexican desert toward the US border every day.
And in 2009 there was a Louisiana based trucking company with "do not stop" passes all US law enforcement officers recognized.
Pssst. Remember when Trump promised Mexico would pay for his big,beautiful wall? And notice how that isn't happening? Well, just like that was a fairy tale that never happened, the wall won't happen, either. Even if Trump declares an emergency and steals money from the Puerto Rico disaster funds, it will get tied up in court and never happen.
Common sense.If Congress passes the new trade agreement, which will increase fair trade between Mexico and the US, including Canada, this will help compensate for the five billion he needs for the wall.
Common SenseAre you serious?? You'll buy anything Trump tells you! You've sold out completely if you believe this BS, Kat! What will you say when Mueller charges Trump with collusion with the Russians? "Oh, it was just a boy thing." Who do you think you're fooling, Kat? Seriously!
You want to put your money where your mouth is, Kat? Or are you Trumping it?
Is that a yes, or a no, Kat? I have a grand waiting for you if you want to back up your complete confidence in your idol.
I don't want you to loose a thousand dollars.
No problem, so is it a bet? It's only writing money. Kinda like it's free. What's a months worth of writing income anyway?
Haha! Ha hA thats funny. Poor HubPage Hubber! How about a virtual thousand dollars?
I won't loose, but it will make it easier (for you) when I win.
No, this is a real cash bet and if you're so sure of being right, then it's a bet. You cannot get out of your insistence of your being right that easy. No hardship for me...
Check out the governments own reports and get back to me. It's not my fault you cannot do research yourself.
Here is a sobering report on drug overdoses... Over 72 thousand died of drug overdose in 2017. Is it time to try to solve this problem? Is it time to take drastic actions to at least make an attempt to solve this problem? Or do we just sweep it under a carpet as we have done for many years due to a government that is not doing their job?
"Preventable drug-related poisoning deaths, or drug overdoses, are at an all-time high and increasing rapidly. In 2017, 61,311 people died from preventable drug overdoses – an increase of 450% since 1999."
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-co … PKEALw_wcB
Revised deaths from overdoses Aug 2018
"Drugs Involved in U.S. Overdose Deaths* - Among the more than 72,000 drug overdose deaths estimated in 2017*, the sharpest increase occurred among deaths related to fentanyl and fentanyl analogs (synthetic opioids) with nearly 30,000 overdose deaths. Source: CDC WONDER"
https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topic … eath-rates
Here are the facts from one of your own Bibles... Yes, it well appears most are smuggled across legal borders, but there is still a large amount that makes its way over the unprotected areas of the border. Not sure if you are aware, Trump is all for more border agents to stop drugs from getting in at the legal border crossings? He is making an attempt to curb drugs at all points to decrease the amount that reaches the streets. Is it not time to handle all of the long-time problems that are plaguing the country? Do we not looking foolish as a population putting up with all the problems that illegal immigration is causing the country? We need a true fix, not more of the same. We have a president that is making an attempt to improve or should I say reform immigration, is it not long overdue?
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete … rn-border/If Trump can guarantee the "wall" will stop ALL illegal immigration and drug smuggling as well, then a deal might be made, but you know the stupid wall is simply a hinderance and not a solution.
All? Would it not be wonderful if we use the word improved or cut down on? Fewer drugs, less crime, fewer children being abandon at the border, less dead in the desert, less gang activity, fewer young girls being trafficked into sex trafficking. Do you know the cost to support all of the problems that come with illegal immigration? Would improving all of the above problems not warrant having a barrier, and immigration reform. Some are not realizing Trump has good plans for reforming the immigration laws. Laws that benefit American's. I think you need to do some research on the places on the border that have good barriers, their communities have benefited from a strong border. The numbers are there, all one must do is look for them.
No one is against some barriers along the border, Shar. A wall which does little good, costing billions, not to mention many landowners along the border do not want such a wall blocking their cattle from reaching the Rio Grande for water.
This land would be taken for the wall resulting in many lawsuits lasting for years in the courts. I know this as I-75 came through our farm and we had to go to court for years until we finally received the original value of the property.
And even then a portion of our farm was on the other side of the interstate making us drive some 5 miles or so to tend land within a couple hundred yards away. We eventually sold that land because it was too much trouble to get to and it was surrounded by other landowners which happened to be my kinfolks. Otherwise we could even reach the land.
Imagine the problems those ranchers will face for a token wall or fence."Imagine the problems those ranchers will face for a token wall or fence." I have not actually seen any interviews with anyone that has expressed a problem. I am would certainly not approve of someone being given less than the worth of their property. I also think it important to protect the surrounding environment that could be affected. Although, I would hope the kind of problems you bring up be handled fairly. Any border plan should give good thought to all that would be in its path. These are good points that our congress should be looking at when bargaining. However, there is no bargaining going on? Dems and Reps have the same concerns, we need our representatives to voice our opinion, not go home for the weekend. We are not far apart when it comes to your concerns. But, we are not being heard. Your point is important, and it is my thought that a deal could be made that we can all be satisfied with.
I don't know where you get the main of your info about the border wall Shar, but there have been many interviews with those very same landowners along the proposed border wall route. Try watching some main stream media for a change and not Fox and you won't be so fuzzy on the details.
I will make every attempt to find some interviews with landowners. As I said I think their concerns need to be included in any negotiations. If you have any resources on the subject I would appreciate them. I have found many interviews on landowners that want the wall. I guess there are two sides to this, and both need e considered.
MSNBC - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKLCo_UdO1YWhy aren't you blaming Mitch McConnel for not allowing the senate to vote on the bills passed by the house to reopen the govt? Is it because he's afraid for Trump to see which senators voted against him, or for their constituents to know how they voted. I think he's afraid of both and not doing his constituitional duty.
I have addressed my feelings on this thread as to putting the blame on both sides. McConnel made the statement at the start of all this that he would not bring anything to the floor that the president would not sign. This leads me to believe he knows exactly where the president stands. I don't agree with him in this case. Any bill voted on and pasted should be put in front of the president. He should shoulder his responsibility. And yes, at this point I agree McConnell is not living up to the Constitution. This is the problem, both sides no longer live up to it... You have pointed out our biggest problem. We the people have lost our voices.
Previous comment ---- "There are two sides to this problem. Both are using the shut down to promote an agenda. The Dems are making every attempt to stop Trump from keeping promises he made on the campaign trail. It is clear he is keeping promises at a very good pace, and the Dems just can't stop him from solving longtime problems that have for decades plagued. Actually, even with all the stumbling blocks, nothing stops him. He is showing that Washington, Dems as well as Republicans have not been doing their job. It makes one wonder, why have we the people put up with this kind of governing? In all this confusion, I have one question for both sides - Why? Why has our deepening immigration problems not been solved long before Trump? Why do we the people put up with this kind of governing? We appear to be fooled, do we not?"
This sounds very hypocritical. One could say if Dem's can't get their bill passed they should not hold the government hostage. Both sides are dug I, not sure why you feel our president should cave? He won the election on his agenda... part of his agenda was to reform immigration and build a barrier. I am always so shocked to see this kind of one-way thinking. Even when they put it in writing.
We The People have the option to "file a petition" to our respective congressman telling them which option we want. As a matter of Fact, each congressman is supposed to inquire of their constituents on how they should vote, per Article 6.3, then this wouldn't have ever happened. It is all unconstitutional.
So, you feel that Dem's are reacting to petitions in regards to their decision to protest immigration reform and a barrier? I had not actually heard one of them say this on any of the interviews? All I have heard is the world No... We will not be in agreement to building a wall. You certainly have a very good reflex to defect. Yes, all you have stated in your comment is true. Although my comment referred to the Dems being hypocrites, as well as many that support this way of thinking.
It's a modus operandi that has never been used more than once a year before, and is making people work for free or leave us open to dangers at our ports and in our foodchain.
Becoming common =/= being acceptable.The people need to let Trump know we are on his side. The people have the power on this one. If the people do not want to secure the border with an extended metal-slat barrier, then we are doomed. Without strengthening our borders at this time, we are jeopardizing our security. Caravans of people from below the border are attempting to walk in and the terrorists will follow. One can claim this is simplistic thinking and that we already have borders which are perfectly adequate, but the facts and the truth of the matter prove otherwise.
"America needs to protect and secure its borders for the sake of security, health, and American jobs.
Keep out or thwart illegals, drug traffickers and terrorists
Save men, women and children from dying in the desert
Keep illegals from trashing the desert and U.S. citizens’ property
Keep men, women and children from falling victim to human traffickers
Less anchor babies
Less immigration hearings and court costs (attorneys, etc.)
Help reduce violence, especially in sanctuary cities
Lessen the number of border patrol agents needed
Help and better protect those agents that continue to patrol the border
Less welfare recipients
Less school, hospital and medical costs
Less impact on public safety and other resources
More jobs available to legal residents and
Mitigate the fears of many Americans that occur with an open border."
https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion … /87746870/
And there are other immigration issues, such as illegally extended visas, but those can be resolved more easily with a physically strong border in place. We will be able to focus on capping chain migration, ending the visa lottery program, mandating employment e-verification and fining employers who break the laws.
If we don''t get behind Trump, he will let it go. Its up to us.
... and he will have a clean conscious, but we won't.
Call Your Representative and let them know you are behind "The Wall."Should the U.S. employ every available citizen with non-impoverishing wages by eliminating the vast gap between citizens' wages there would not be jobs available for immigrants so, unless they prove their lives are in jeopardy in their nations, they should and would be denied entry except on a visitor visa.
Now look at Article 1, section 8 and paragraph 1, it disallowed taxes to be used to bailout corporations but for defense - meaning our military should never be on foreign lands unless they have harmed our nation's land and people - general welfare. That means if the nation fulfills the above statement the wall would be a wall of defense by the military. I have a hub under "politics" called "Uniting-Americas-States" that reveals how that should be done.
The U.S. should stop employers from hiring expired visa immigrants then we wouldn't have that as a problem, especially if our military bases and patrols were along borders where there is mass illegal immigrating rather in a war the U.S.A committed treason to get us into. Every foreign war, beginning in 1898 through 2001, were entered because a treasonous act approved by the United States' presidents and allowed to be declared by congress under false pretenses.
All the government needs to do is follow its constitution and the problems we have would not be.
"An estimated 60 percent of the cocaine and 29 percent of the heroin sold across America in 1998 are believed to have come through the U.S.-Mexico border. Further, the cross-border movement of illicit drugs is associated with a high level of violence, as well as corruption of U.S. and Mexican officials and money laundering. Efforts to stop the flow have put pressure on the transportation infrastructure and contributed to congestion at the border crossings."
https://www.gao.gov/assets/230/227572.pdfIf that is true it is because it goes over the borders via Air America, the go anywhere without being stopped CIA's air fleet.
I read that article but don't believe it, most of it is flown in by the CIA as the Iran-Contra Affair revealed in the 80s.
From the above link:
"* Illegal immigration:
The border is the primary checkpoint for illegal immigration. The U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service apprehended 1.5-million undocumented immigrants on the southwest border in fiscal year 1998. Illegal immigration has been shown to be associated with increased criminal activities and to raise the cost of some federal, state, and local programs. Attempting to assure that only eligible individuals enter the United States places a burden on border infrastructure and affects the cross-border flow of goods and services.
* Cross-border transportation:
The border area provides the transportation infrastructure to facilitate trade between the United States and Mexico, which has more than doubled since the North American Free Trade Agreement went into effect in 1994. Nearly 4 million trucks and 85 million passenger vehicles entered the United States from Mexico in fiscal year 1998. Processing the high volume of commercial and passenger traffic while at the same time interdicting contraband and illegal immigrants has contributed to congestion and air pollution and has placed pressure on the infrastructure of local communities along the border.
* Environmental infrastructure and public health:
The need for environmental infrastructure improvement is particularly acute on the Mexican side of the border, where many communities are without potable water and adequate sanitation. On the U.S. side, most border communities have environmental infrastructure, but some facilities require repair or expansion. Moreover, most locations are faced with a diminishing supply of clean and safe drinking water. Environmental infrastructure problems have contributed to public health concerns. Many diseases occur at rates much higher in the border region than in other areas of the United States and Mexico. Also, there is an increased concern about the growing number of multidrug-resistant tuberculosis cases in the border region.Is there nothing revealing that 90% of South Americas nations' conflicts are caused by the US' intelligence agencies which is also the cause for their migrating to the US?
Isn't there anything saying it's most probable that the diseases are implanted by the US in those nations south of the US?
When use see the whole picture we can clearly see the US is the orchestrator of most of the woes besieging us.
back it up, NB.
Prove your lies are true.
We have to stop believing in the air heads, such as Chuck and Nancy, and look at reality with TRUE discernment."Should the U.S. employ every available citizen with non-impoverishing wages by eliminating the vast gap between citizens' wages there would not be jobs available for immigrants. Its not up to the government." NB
If you think so, I disagree.Why do you disagree? Is it because your income is more lavish than many? Those are reasons enough to disagree in a nation where classes are not supposed to be but everything is one class or another.
Mitch McConell, STEP ASIDE!! You could bring the house bill to the floor of the senate and see who's holding the govt. closed. But he won't as he's afraid to make the cretin mad and because the Rep. Senators don't want their constituents to know they're afraid of him.
If Trump gets what he wants this time it will set a precedent for future times he doesn't get his way. Not to mention the precedent for future presidents to do the same.
... will they stop at nothing for the sake of votes/creating new voters??
Those last 3 posts are the reason the Constitution doesn't allows for parties, the politicians are concerned about party concerns rather than the peoples NEEDS.
why would a wall not help? I am all ears ... I mean eyes.
Furthermore:
https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org … rn-border/Perhaps, there is a force thats want to make us one with the state and subservient to the state. And surely, the the power of the state will give people SOME sort of freedom. But the liberty this force wants to grant is not the same liberty the founders of our country thought of. No, to this force, liberty is the positivism of progress where moral truths do not exist. Law is to be based on the science of reason, rather than morality. The purpose of the law is to advance the state. The utopian state where each of us is free and self-realized ... and society will be free and self-realized.
Individual liberty is a PROBLEM for this force. If you are self-sufficient and for your own independence you are a threat.
Hegel, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich |ˈhāgəl|
(1770–1831), German philosopher. In Science of Logic (1812–16) he described the three-stage process of dialectical reasoning, on which Marx based his theory of dialectical materialism.
... or there is just greed and we don't quite know who the greedy ones are.Now, according to this video, the speaker indicates that there is a force which is apolitical attempting to usurp the power of the individual through the implementation of the Common Core Curriculum in the public schools.
After watching this video, I am more confused than ever in regards to the source of the FORCE which is ruining the country.
What is the PROBLEM?
Its beyond me, I am sad to admit.
Dr. Duke Pesta:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inM8WTBT1lg
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