Obama Approves More Murder.

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   Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years ago

   The adoration given B.H. Obama has got to go.
   
   This man is possible more and exposer of man's inhumanity towards man than George W.Bush, or Dick Cheney.
   
   Sooner or later people will realize that Corporate money and the fed reserve international banking cartel....always provides the same kind of man for our fake leader figurehead that doesn't do anything but whatever the global oligarchy tells him to do.
   
   So now, Obama is planning to murder more *cough* "terrorist" with the coward robot planes he controls.
   
   http://news.antiwar.com/2012/04/26/obam … drone-war/

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      Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      So what. Every politician on the planet would order the death of people in certain situations.
      
      No way is Obama worse than GW. That's a ridiculous thing to say. The man started a whole war and sold weapons to the opposition for christ sake.

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         Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Wasn't there a wedding party which was struck by an unmanned Predator killing, not only some of the guests, but the bride also, under Dubya's watch? 
         
         
                                                

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            Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I do recall something of that nature. In fact, I recall a few...

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            Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Randy!!!!!!!!!  I think "Dubya" and Obama - and a few others should all be hung for crimes against humanity...I don't know why folks think I'm opinionated, I'm obviously right

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               Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               How's life in Cluelessville; Population: You? You are not obviously right and think wrong. I'm going to wrap up by saying the use of drones are very efficient and the military will be using more of them versus recruiting more soldiers. A drone can take out a dangerous enemy combatant without risk to a team of soliers and far, far cheaper. Obama 2012!

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                  Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Thanks for wrapping up!!!!!!!  I was already done with your comments!

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                  pressingtheissueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Come on Paul, do you really want 30,000 drones above America looking to take out "Enemy Combatants" (YOU!)?  Far Cheaper?  Well if you believe that the American people should pay for (in tax dollars) their surveillance and possible illegal execution by 30,000 drones overhead, then maybe I am missing some great advantage.... Stop cheer leading for Obama and start using your time to actually learn about what is going on around you.  Please!  We need more people to get out of this trance!

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               Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Ha! Wesman, aren't we all!    I thought about you today when I was several miles up a very beautiful river in an isolated area catching alligator gar for pure sport.  No big ones, just several 4 or 5 feet long.  Of course we let them go.  Saw a few huge gators and took some great photos and video footage for some future articles.  Notice I did not say "Hubs"! 
               
               
                                                      

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                  Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Randy - PHOTO BLOG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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         Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         So you don't care about murder.  Thanks - got it!

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            Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Murder is an unjust killing. Who are you to say that he ordered unjust killings? You don't know every detail about this.
            
            Are you saying that a country should never kill anyone? If you were in charge you would be wiped out within a decade.

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               Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Okay sure.  I don't know everything about it - and Obama knows everything about these people that need killing how many thousand miles away?

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            Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Sympathy towards terrorists? So if a SWAT team takes out a mad gunman, is that murder too? Get real! Two thumbs up for Obama!

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               Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               So sending robotic planes to murder little girls...isn't terrorism?
               
               NICE!!!!
               
               So that must mean that this was fine with you:
               
               
               

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                  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  You obviously never heard of the geneva convention huh?
                  
                  You honestly think that your soldiers protecting your country don't care whether or not they kill children? You think Obama thinks like you too?
                  
                  Your opinion of others is pretty low don't you think? You must really love yourself to put everyone else around you on such a low level of morality.

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                     Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     You mean somebody somewhere is a threat to the USA?  Sudan?  Well Fuck Me!  I didn't realize that the Sudan could invade the USA!

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                        Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        That is such a selfish answer. Just because the people being killed are not in your own country you don't give a shit?

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                           Repairguy47posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Not a big Wesman Todd Shaw fan, but you clearly missed his point!

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                              Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Well thanks!
                              
                              
                              ...I think?

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                                 Repairguy47posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 Just go with it.

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                              Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              He was implying that america need only attack people in sudan if they are a threat to america in his last post. I don't think I missed his point did I?

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                                 Repairguy47posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 Nooooooooooooo, you got it.

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         pressingtheissueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Obama has broken more laws and made more of a mockery of the Constitution than any other president in history!  Plus there is so much evidence coming out that he isn't who he says he is.  The Globalists have used this guy more than any other president in history to put their NWO agenda in place.  Now that informed people are starting to ask hard questions and find out the answers to some almost unbelievable facts, they are trying to push this agenda down everyone's' throat before all of humanity finally wakes up. 
         
         Take a look at Agenda 21 and also This.  Then look at how Arizona and other areas are starting to pass laws to protect the American people from "International Interests".
         
         If you don't know or can't see that Obama is Bush/Cheney on steroids, then you are not paying attention or aren't willing to open your eyes.

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            Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Absolutely - if he'd been for the American people, he'd have been a man and risked getting shot - Like Kennedy, the last POTUS that was for his country and not playing the globalist game.

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            Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You're still  mad because the Maverick and the MILF didn't get elected in 2008. If a Republican president was to use drones to fight terror, you'd be all for it!

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            Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            From the outside Obama is doing a way better job than GW. Of course I can only go by what the WORLD media reports.....

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      justomposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Make ME POTUS and I'll promise you a pot in every chicken and by popular request I'll make the clap a childhood disease. Also the only drone would be musical and could only be played by Ravi Shankar. I promise!! Thank you..thank you very much~

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         Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Tom...so what?  I only want lotsa hookers!

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      lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You might want to consider that Obama is not the one making the laws:
      
      "As we mentioned a few days ago, California criminal Congressman Lucky Bucky McKeon started and chairs, the House Unmanned Systems Caucus, a polite way of saying the Drone Caucus. This is little more than a garden variety scam by the manufacturers of drones to ingratiate themselves to a bunch of Military Industrial Complex wh*res in Congress... like Lucky Bucky and money grubbing warmongers like Henry Cuellar (Blue Dog-TX), Joe "You Lie" Wilson (R-SC), Ken Calvert (R-CA), Todd Akin (R-MO), Rick Berg (R-ND), Mike Rogers (R-MI), Brian Bilbray (R-CA), David Dreier (R-CA), Don Young (R-AK), Michael McCaul (R-TX), Darrell Issa (R-CA), Kevin McCarthy (R-CA), Robert Brady (D-PA), Joe Heck (R-NV), Anne Marie Buerkle (R-NY) and, of course Dan Boren (Blue Dog-OK)."
      
      http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/201 … anned.html
      
      >David Dreier...wow, there's a throw-back: Long time player. He's been at it for decades.<

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      Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It's a depressing situation.  All politicians of both parties seem to be fine with killing innocent civilians.  I started a thread about a quote from John Brennan earlier.  It was quite revealing.

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         Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks for understanding.
         
         I'm more disgusted with these folks that find some bullshit to justify murder with - than I even know how to express.

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            Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Yes.  I'm coming to realize that the police state is one of the biggest threats to American freedom there is.  The policy are becoming increasingly militarized, and the new NSA building going up in Utah is going to be used to spy on EVERYONE.
            
            All of these events have led me to begin rereading 1984.

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               Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Well dangit - you are providing some great info that I'd not known about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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                  Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  It gets worse.  http://www.fair.org/blog/2012/03/15/why … in-prison/
                  
                  That goes with the topic you used to start the hub.

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               Shanna11posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I drive past that NSA building site every now and again. It's about twenty minutes from where I live and go to school. It'll be interesting to see how it grows and affects the surrounding cities.

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                  Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  It's a jobs program!  Just like education, and a lot of other government agencies.  As a liberal, I very much support social programs.  But bureaucracies have this funny tendency to keep growing, and by doing so introducing pointless jobs. 
                  
                  Schools, "national security," and defense contractors provide a vast number of jobs to Americans.  Schools aren't performing like they should, the government is spying, and the military-industrial complex is stronger than it's ever been.

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                     Shanna11posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     There's a lot of mountains in the surrounding area that I like to hike.... I won't be surprised the day I run into a bunch of NSA agents in the mountains.

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      Will Apseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You are absolutely right, of course. Drones kill innocent people and that has to be called murder.
      
      The problem is there are far worse things than the American Government. There are even worse presidents than Barack Obama.
      
      It all comes down to degrees of evil. So when you pick a side, hold your nose and hope for the best.

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         Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Drones are flown remotely by a pilot. The only difference between a drone and an attack aircraft is that the pilot is miles away instead of inside the aircraft.
         
         The decisions are still made by the same pilot that flies other aircraft and are made by viewing live video footage from the drone.
         
         Why you would think that pilots intentionally kill innocent people is beyond me.

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         Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That is fair, I guess - but the Obama adoration makes me very ill!

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   Shanna11posted 12 years ago

   Sounds like something a lot of past presidents would do to protect the country they've been elected to lead. Obama's being proactive, but at the same time, it does pose interesting questions that we as Americans should consider.
   
   Are we willing to let authority figures (regardless of party affiliation) have the power to dispatch foreign 'threats' to the US (possibly former US citizens) without disclosing who or even necessarily why? Is it too much power--should more people be involved in that decision making?
   
   On a different note, I think we need to step back, disregard the R or D that's attached to a person and consider the policies, ideas and theories as objectively as possible. There are good Democrats, and there are bad Democrats, and the same goes absolutely for Republicans. We're going to lose sight of what is REALLY good and bad for our nation if we just keep focusing on party designation and basing our opinions about policy on which party the policy maker belongs to.

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      Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Senate Bill 510 states that you have not even the right to grow your own vegetables, but thanks for commenting anyway.

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         Shanna11posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         What does that have to do with my comment at all? If it indeed does do that (and I'm researching it right now, and I don't see that anywhere) then it is indeed bad policy. It wasn't even passed by the House, anyway.
         
         Other than that, I fail to see the point of bringing that up.

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   DoItForHerposted 12 years ago

   Sadly, the CIA covertly killing citizens of other countries is nothing new.
   
   What would happen if another country bombed the U.S. in retaliation for our terrorist activities and ended up killing innocent children as collateral damage? We would have a snit fit & start another war.
   
   Bombing another country outside of war is a huge deal- especially when innocent families are being destroyed.

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      Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      How can someone NOT see that the USA ...is the global terrorist organization?
      
      Paul Wingert up there seems to think that people living in other nations....deserve to be killed by drone planes operated by persons thousands of miles away...but THAT isn't terrorism....
      
      I swear...people that watch television all have brain damage from that shit.

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   habeeposted 12 years ago

   If Obama weren't aggressive with terrorists, the right would be fuming. (Not necessarily talking about you, Wes.) Many already say Obama is too weak and too much of an appeaser.

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      Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That is all true, Habee - but I'm into ethics and morals...and politicians almost never (edit: NEVER) care about either of those things.

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   libby101aposted 12 years ago

   I believe every president has his little dirty secrets and has done just as much destruction... not all may be in the open but their all dirty!

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      Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes but some are greater at the game of mass murder and lying to the public about the reasons why they murder millions than others....

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   Eric Newlandposted 12 years ago

   Yeah, what's your clearance level, WTS? You know there are things from WWII that have just recently been declassified?
   
   Yes, it's a horrifying thought, but there are things our leaders know that we don't. Maybe because, I dunno, if we knew about them our enemies would know about them too.
   
   Unfortunately that inevitably creates an honor system situation where we have to give the government a modicum of trust to do the right thing based on information we aren't allowed to have. If you don't like it your only recourse is to move off the grid.

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      Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It's funny that a conservative is arguing we have to trust the government based on an honor system!
      
      In all seriousness, I understand where you are coming from.  But just think about the Pentagon Papers, Bradley Manning, and the like.  The government doesn't want the true facts of the war to be known.
      
      Edward Bernays, the father of modern public relations, once quipped, "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society."  This sums up the current strategy of the military and U.S. government.
      
      Walter Lippmann had it right when he said, "The time has come to stop beating our heads against stone walls under the illusion that we have been appointed policeman to the human race."

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         Eric Newlandposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It's not ideal, it just is. Either our government keeps secrets from us or we lose all our advantages over our enemies.
         
         Of course, you can't do much more with that than take most national defense actions, as well as most of the hype surrounding them, with a grain of salt.

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      Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      There are more things under heaven and on the Earth, Eric Newland, than are found in your Realpolitick.

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   zduckmanposted 12 years ago

   The use of drones is a horrible adaptation of war. It removes the human element and makes it to easy for some kid 5,000 miles away to commit unnecessary violence.

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      Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely - it allows someone to murder children from a video game console.

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         Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         If you think that military pilots want to kill innocent children then you have a disgusting view of reality and society.
         
         Do you have any evidence for your claim or are you just spouting nonsense for fun?

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      Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Drones are controlled by pilots. What difference does it make whether they sit inside the aircraft or control it from a distance? They have the same level of training, the only difference is that their own life is not at risk.
      
      If you think that it means they are more likely to kill innocent people because they are controlling the aircraft from a different location then I think you need to cite some evidence.

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      Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      THANKS!!!  I AGREE!

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   pisean282311posted 12 years ago

   ...obama is kid in front of GW

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      Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      ....both could have starred in "The Omen."

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   Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years ago

   Does anyone out there think that I, or anyone else - should bother to reply to someone so ill as to put words into my mouth?

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    Will Apseposted 12 years ago

    US official admitting civilian deaths:
    
    http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/ … s&lite
    
    They say it is rare to kill civilians, But they are targeting suspects. How many things can go wrong when you are targeting suspects? It is not as if you can see the target (people) with your own eyes. All you get is that 2D often grainy video feed.
    
    Here is a reputable British journalist saying US media never report civilian deaths,including strikes on funerals and children.
    
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ap … human-cost
    
    
    Just as an aside:
    
    There was an interesting piece in Der Spiegal a couple of years ago asking why there were so many more civilian casualties in Iraq than in previous comparable wars.
    
    The writer investigated the training of US troops and found plenty of video training simulations in all kinds of weapon systems.
    
    The distance and separation of a digital image meant they didn't really feel the deaths of those they killed.
    
    In WW2, most soldiers who died were killed by artillery, mines or tanks. The average soldier had a problem killing another human being even if they were an enemy.
    
    No such feelings in the video age.

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