Is it really fair to force people to buy health insurance?
I know in my life, I can not afford health insurance until a job with decent pay comes my way. I have been unemployeed for eight months now and find work hard to come by in my tiny neck of the woods here in Kentucky. Also, when it comes to medicial treatment, I am very old school...we use our knowledge of herbs and other alternative healing. There may be times when a doctor or hospital care is recommended, but we would foot the bill without insurance. Yet, why is the medical cost so high that we have to rely on insurance industry to pay the bills? Is it really fair to make people prepay for medical they may never use?
It's not fair in any sense of the word.
You're unemployed but if one of you ended up in hospital in a vegetative state you would foot the bill yourself!
Yes, John. I've been footing the bill myself for quite some time now. I can't afford to purchase insurance at private rates. When the government makes THAT possible, I'll be happy to do so. But, until they do THAT rather than fine me for not purchasing health insurance I cannot afford, I will never support Obamacare. Sorry.
In our tradition, John, it would be time that the Creator is calling forward one of his children.......that is some of what is wrapped up in the Indian phrase you might hear that says, "today is a good day to die".
Maybe they wouldn't have a leg to stand on
There are televangelists in that part of the U.S. who promise to make your bills just go away. You send the bills to the preacher, he prays for God to absolve you of your financial responsibility, and just like that - no more bills! (the preacher then remembers to mention that the prayers are more effective when you send a sizable donation along with the bills).
"Is it really fair to make people prepay for medical they may never use?"
Something as simple as a bee sting or a peanut could put you in a coma. It's a juvinile idea to think you would never need medical care. And a serious illness or accident would generate medical bills you can't pay for without selling your house. If you're a person of means that can cover all your medical cost without ever burdenening the rest of us with your emergency room bills or long term hospice or nursing home care, I don't think you should be required to buy medical insurance.What about those who burden us with paying for their food,housing,drug problems? Maybe a tax should be levied on those who cant pay their own way, you're probably all for that...Right?
Well no obviously we should just let those people die.
WHAT!...
That's who my taxes should pay for! Not some creep that wants to sponge off the rest of society while bragging about how FREEDOM means so much to him! Freedom means people have the right to be free of your medical bills. You don't deserve my tax money! Poor people are a part of my community I'm abliged to take care of...not you, the people that want to freeload on us, just because you can!In my community the free loaders are the poor people. The ones who get high while complaining about the lack of jobs available. The meth heads who get pregnant 6 times and have medicaid for every pregnancy that tax payers pay for. The middle class are seldom the free loaders. They usually work for a living. The poor are poor for a reason. Some may have a good excuse but many are busy getting drunk, high, or blowing their money on nice rims while collecting section 8 housing and EBT.
"In my community the free loaders are the poor people."
Bernie Maddoff needs your financial support right now! Shell Oil is really in need of your tax money. Their needs and behavior are much more deserving of your sympathy and money. Oh...I heard JP Morgan could use a little of your help and understanding too!Why do stupid people waste their time smelling the behind of poor people? Wall Street crooks stole your house, took away your grandmothers's pension and won't give you a loan to get back on your feet. Idiots need to get off their knees, turn around from that poor guys' butt, and look to those that are working towards destroying you!
Crooks didn't steal houses. People got loans they wouldn't be able to afford or that had adjustable rates or balloon payments. People are or at least need to be responsible for their own actions. I'm sorry you feel wronged but reality is every poor person in this country has the opportunity to do something with themselves. If they choose not to then so be it. I don't understand how being responsible for our own actions is so hard! I have been poor, all it takes is a little work and people don't have to be poor!
But then you can't control them and use fear to make them vote for you. Right?
That's exactly what this presidential campaign is becoming. "If you don't vote for me you'll starve, lose your house, and your grandma will get pushed off a cliff" Scare tactics. Both presidential candidates SUCK!!!
Both Presidential candidates are good family men that choose to do something meaningful with their lives! Both in their own way have made other peoples' live better. All you have to do is show some maturity and vote for the one that best represents what you feel will be the best course for this Country to take. Throwing up your hands and saying "they're all bad" is a cop out that lazy people use to get around the fact that they need to do their research and make an educated choice.
Baloney!
Barack Obama needs de-elected. That much is clear. Mitt Romney will get elected then run for re-election. That is clear.
Please------no Ron Paul supporters. The man was NEVER in contention nor will he be.
We need a national referendum because the parties will maintain whatever status quo and skim off the taxaton top of this law. Guaranteed.Did I say I wasn't voting? No that's just you on that hateful high horse again. Neither represent what I believe in. I will be writting in my vote! I have done my research. Just because I don't have the same opinion as you do and I am not an obama supporter does not imply I don't know what the candidates stand for. I couldn't care less about them being Family men!
"I'm sorry you feel wronged but reality is every poor person in this country has the opportunity to do something with themselves"
Juvenile attacks on poor people and me is your tacky new chic of blaming poor people for your miserable life. Adults don't see a poor person until they are trying to help someone that's in some need that adult can fix. Children and the feeble minded attack poor people because they don't have the knowledge or courage to face their real enemies. And, some juveniles are just too lazy to do the research needed to improve their bad childish behavior.LOLOLOLOL Stating truth is not an attack. And my life is far from miserable. I'm just tired of people whining about their whole lives and blaming their problems on other people instead of taking responsibility for their bad choices! I rent homes to poor people, I feed poor people, and I clothe poor people. The amount who come to us for help becomes almost nothing as soon as they read the part of our application that says a drug test is required. Our company sees these people every week. Please don't be so blind to a serious issue facing our country! Without fixing the lazy who refuse to change we will never fix the economy.
"And my life is far from miserable. I'm just tired of people whining about their whole lives and blaming their problems on other people instead of taking responsibility for their bad choices!"
Change your situation! Lazy juveniles stay in jobs they don't like because they don't have the maturity needed to move on. Stop your whining!I don't do it as a Job. We run a charity to help the people who actually NEED housing due to situations outside of their own bad choices. People who lost their job due to lay offs. I love working with those people. I do not like working with people who chose to do nothing with their lives which is why we don't work with that type. If you could stop trying to find something to be hateful about you would see from my posts I have nothing wrong with the government and community helping those who help themselves. At no point have I whined because I have no reason to. I'm thankful for what we have worked hard to get! Get off your hateful high horse and actually read what I am writing instead of just trying to use personal attacks!
"I'm thankful for what we have worked hard to get! Get off your hateful high horse and actually read what I am writing instead of just trying to use personal attacks!"
First you assumed that I was poor. Then you said I and others are poor because of our bad choices(as if you were there). Then you turn around and try to paint me as "hateful" because I respond to your attacks. Good people that help the poor do so with no desire for glory. You only find out their good deeds because other people praise them. Those with limited comprehension blame poor people for your situation in life. Why do you have anything to do with poor people in any way. You clearly have a problem with them to the point of criticising their every move. How were poor people forced into your life and how were you forced to work with them. The reasons you smell up poor people is an issue you need to work out with your therapist. I love my job and my life and most of the poor and rich people I come into contact with everyday. Again, CHANGE YOUR SITUATION and hopefully that will change your very bad attitude.
When did I assume you were poor? I don't know you!!! Honestly I couldn't care less if you are poor or not. Your posts have been nothing but attacks and hate. Anytime I said poor I said SOME.
"Lazy juveniles"
"stupid people"
Those are your attacks and just a couple of them. I at no point called you names. Repeatedly I have stated I have no problem with good poor people. Yet you REFUSE to hear that part yet again. I work with the people I do because I have been there before. That's how they became part of my life. Yet you also refuse to hear the part of me addmitting I was poor.
Again, my situation is great! I hope you have a great day!"People are or at least need to be responsible for their own actions. I'm sorry you feel wronged but reality is every poor person in this country has the opportunity to do something with themselves."
You were not careful enough with your blanket statement about poor people and you included me. That's a problem with people that inject themselves into grown peoples' conversations with the intent to hurt people with ignorant statements. Why not apoligize instead of trying to defend your very bad behavior?
What part of that is a blanket statement? Am I wrong? Do you think people shouldn't be responsible for their own actions? I said I am sorry you feel wronged based on this post
"Why do stupid people waste their time smelling the behind of poor people? Wall Street crooks stole your house, took away your grandmothers's pension and won't give you a loan to get back on your feet. Idiots need to get off their knees, turn around from that poor guys' butt, and look to those that are working towards destroying you!"
You sound angry toward these people as if you were somehow wronged directly or indirectly by one of them.
"That's a problem with people that inject themselves into grown peoples' conversations with the intent to hurt people with ignorant statements."
You are implying I am not grown. Yet another hateful remark. I at no time try to hurt people but I will not sugar coat my beliefs because someone doesn't agree. I have no reason to apologize and you have no right to even speak of my "bad behavior". Every one of your posts directed at me has at least one insult in it. You are too busy blaming me to see that though!Before we both get to creepy or get banned; I suggest you consider researching the reason people are poor instead of using played out, corney talking points that have nothing to do with reality.
Come to northern South Carolina and take a walk in the poor neighborhoods. Granted I can't speak for anywhere I haven't been but everything I stated is the reality where I am. That said I doubt the situation is much different elsewhere. People were poor long before wall street bankers and George W Bush.
Friendly I really do hope the rest of your day is great! Feel free to have the last word if you need to.
I had a friend who worked at a local homeless shelter. There were a lot of people outside that shelter waiting for meals.
Here's the sad truth. Most of them weren't homeless. They just wanted the free meal that was supposed to be for the homeless. I wonder how many homeless went hungry for the sake of those who weren't homeless?That's what worries me. Far too many people out there truly need help. But sadly there is another group that just wants something for nothing. More would be available for those who really need it if something could be done about those who just try to get whatever they can get!
What do you propose to do about it? There are solutions but no one likes them.
Well you don't force a tax law down people's throats. You don't do that. That is why you are seeing all this.
That's not actually a solution but it's irrelevant to the point, either you get rid of welfare o you institute much more government control over the economy and employment otherwise you will have leeches. If it was up to me the government would own industry and would offer the unemployed a job, if they turned down three jobs in a row then no more welfare until they have worked for three years.
Because government has proven to be very good with money
No our government is hopeless with it because they are not budgeted but to argue that government CANNOT be good with money is wrong, there is no reason why it cannot be it just needs to be properly accountable.
The business they are running making a profit appears to me to be a whole different ball game from the government making a profit.
Take British Telecom when it was still owned by the government, it was making obscene amounts of profit, thousands of pounds a second in the early 1980s, the government that owned it was losing money hand over fist.That government is incapable of making a profit.
It's an interesting question though it does not answer my point. Lets see, socialist governments around the world... Hard to answer really but here is probably the most accurate method.
Real GDP growth:
Peru: GDP growth 2011, 9% GDP growth 2012 est 6 to 7%
Argentina: GDP growth 2011 8.8%
Mongolia: GDP growth 2011 11.5%
India: GDP growth 2011 7.8%
Paraguay: GDP growth 2011 6.4%
Turkmenistan: GDP growth 2011 9.9%
Thee are plenty more if you like.Do any of these countries bring in more than they spend?
Well in socialist countries (loosely speaking with variation) the government owns the industry so if their GDP is growing it means yes they are making money.
Wait that is not a governments job, a government should ideally put out as much as it takes in, have a balanced budget in other words, the socialist idea revolves on the process that government owned industry produces money (turns a profit) but then that money is put right back into the community to improve it not kept. So yes they are turning a profit butt hey are not keeping the profit because their aim is not to become rich.
I didn't say get rid of welfare. You know Lincoln might not have actually said what I posted but every word of that is true.
"If it was up to me the government would own industry and would offer the unemployed a job, if they turned down three jobs in a row then no more welfare until they have worked for three years."
You're a fair man. In reality; how many people do you think go around turning down jobs so they can stay poor and on welfare.
You only pay your taxes to satisfy your tax debt! You don't help poor people or buy someone elses healthcare! You only pay your taxes that you owe your city state and IRS. If you want to direct what the government does with the governments' money; run for a government office.
You don't quite get WHO the government is do you?
So the following comment described yourself at this point?
You realize your statement has NOTHING to do with insurance right? They pay their hospital bills. Don't blame the rich people because some people CHOOSE to live poorly and live with a hand out asking for more.
Bernie Maddoff is getting my help, I pay taxes!
So if I am poor and cannot afford health insurance you dont mind paying for it. Why then do we need Obamacare?
We live humble and do not have our hand out! We live the way God instructed us! We are doing just fine!
That is awesome to here! I wish the world had more people like you! I'm not religious but if he keeps you happy and motivated to work through life without being angry at the world because you aren't rich then that is great!
God forbid you get sick or injured and need it. Do you want to receive a bill in the mail for $20-30 K just because you don't have any health insurance coverage?
My belief lies in natural...hololistic healing. But I do understand the advantages of emergency care. I live with a healer and we give out the medicine freely. It is our way. But this one stipulation in this law is infringing on our lives. We live humble and not money to spare. We do not want our lives to be governed my money, yet we see it at times as a neccessary evil. What to do...what to do....
Read the entire healthcare bill for one. If you are financially challenged, you are given a waver. It's the ones who can easily afford healthcare insurance and refuse to do so are the ones penalized. Working class people and small businesses are given tax breaks to cover health insuarance.
If you are struggling to make ends meet then your healthcare will be free, if you are already covered your scheme will remain the same in cost and coverage except that the maximum spending limit will be raised to 750 000 until 2014 and unlimited after 2014, if you cannot get covered because of pre-existing conditions now you can.
Actually my husband is covered by the VA. He served during Nam. Our union as a couple is with a sacred pipe done in a tribal traditional way and we have no papers to regster this act with the governing bodies. So I am currently jobless and without insurance. We live in the country of sparse population, because my husband is in need of the space to ease his PTSD. And yes, healers can have issues and it is through these issues that they are considered hollow bones and through which the Creator works the healing process, believe it or not. So I am the issue of a non-insured! I don't want to be penialized for my choice. But I do herald a good majority of the bill and what changes it offers for those who need and use the insurance!
It was my understanding, if you could not afford it, you pay what had been set up with you and the government.
Someone is going to pay anytime you go to the ER. If we all pay a little it will help with the cost. We will all get sick at some point in our life. I don't think the plan is perfect, but I think we may be on the road to getting something done.I heard that when I was watching the news. Some of the provisions are good and they took effect already, however in 2014, it will start to be fully operational. Initially when I heard the news from CNN about the taxation and upon initial computation the tax is really negligible. I researched some more and it is less than 100 USD in a year for a household earning 60,000 plus, if you don't have insurance. Comparing to other things we pay, car insurance, homeowners etc. that is affordable. You don't need to be fined, you just need to buy your own. Most companies provide health insurance anyway if you work. A little bit of change in the hiring process.
I can see the health reform law as positive, like you said, it is really good when something is being done to solve health problems.
I think this is the best thing that any government can do, to safeguard the basic needs of the people - health security. Health is not a product (that is the argument of some - they forced a product for you to buy) - it is a basic need like housing and education.
I see this pooling of resources in small homeowners association, you pay dues for security, cleanliness etc. At some point, the fear about losing freedom when you live in a society is theoretical and moot.
My basic understanding about economics, supply and demand law - if many will buy insurance the cost is lowered. People will have peace of mind getting preventive check ups because they are confident they are covered. Preventive measures are the best ways to safeguard health bec. degenerative diseases require early detection. These generative diseases - heart, cancer, diabetes are the top causes of mortality in the US.
In the end health is wealth, a healthy nation is productive!I agree with you when it comes to people being able to receive health insurance.
I am making inquiries with some in political circles I know about a national referendum on this law.
No folks, the Presidential election will not be that referendum. Mitt Romney will not do anything.That's a point Prettydarkhorse, how many of these screaming about their loss of freedom live in gated communities with guards and all the trappings?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHH your complete ignorance never ceases to amaze me, Abraham Lincoln never said that, it's a lie. The Pamphlet was written more than fifty years after he died.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/lincoln/prosperity.aspWell dang if you aren't right.
By the way, I still have some respect for you. Let's keep it that way ok?Sure, fair enough, it just irks me that people argue from ignorance and don't check their facts, a lot of the political argument would be solved if people put some effort into learning the facts.
Hey Josak,
Regardless of whether or not Abraham Lincoln said it, it doesn't change the fact of the words, the sentence structure and the common sense of the context, isn't going to change.
Nice distraction technique.
So it's ok to totally misquote people, to attribute the words of a racist preacher to one of the most respected men in American history, that should be let slide? I commented later that i agreed with the statement I just disagreed on where those lines are drawn.
Attribute to a racist preacher?
The words themselves are NOT racist, so again, it matter NOT where or who said it.
JSChams just pulled a picture off the Internet, big deal. You're making more out of something, just to be a pain in the A$$.
Grow up.Do you actually understand why we quote people? What purpose that serves? go learn it, misusing it is wrong. I had never seen that image before but as soon as I did i knew it was bull, one second later I had evidence of it, that is called checking the facts which is something everyone should do before they post a piece of "information" that is intellectual honesty, maybe you don't check your facts maybe you don't think they are important certainly often enough you don't know them but I think they are the basis on any discussion and to misrepresent them kills any chance of an honest exchange which people learn from.
I didn't do it to be an A$$ I did it because I respect the facts, and checking my info, you should try it.
I see it more as a kind of propaganda designed to keep people in their place and not rock the status quo. Although it seems to be good sound advice, it's all weighted toward the powerful. According to Snopes, those maxims were coined in 1916 by the director of the pro-employer, anti-trade union Citizens Industrial Alliance and those were the interests he was serving. They were essentially anti-strike messages.."you cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer"..."you cannot further the brotherhood of man by encouraging class hatred". Sub-text - don't threaten the rich and don't organise for yourselves. And of course, it's anti-welfare. If you are poor and desperate, don't expect any help or share in the common wealth because that would mean you are *weak*.
Maybe the dissenters should adhere to the "Marco Rubio Solution" - Simplistic yet a very effective one size fits all Proclamation & Remedy -
He actually suggested something similar to the following -
"If you don't like the idea of all Americans enjoying the benefits of the most comprehensive health care coverage at the most affordable premiums which ObamaCare aka The Affordable Health Care Act" will provide, just move to another country" -
Essentially, that's what he said with respect to "RomneyCare" - A solution which could easily be translated nationwide -
What a brilliant VP choice this guy would make for the individual who eventually emerges as Republican Nominee -You can't force anybody to do anything. I don't know how anybody can manage without health insurance, though, because medical bills are so high! If people without health insurance ever needed serious surgery, they would be in trouble!
Really?
Health insurance wouldn't be required, if health related industries weren't gouging what they can from the general public.
Doctors don't compete for business. It's already in high demand because of the irresponsibility of government governing the Economy.
People via mass media, marketing and advertising directed at subconscious emotions, beamed into every home with a TV or online, are being purposely manipulated for an agenda that leads to only one place- power and wealth.
If people took their health more serious and government was actually honest, such as the EPA, FDA and a host of other agencies, then the country wouldn't be as bad off as it is presently. Obesity is huge in America. What does that tell you? HIGHER medical costs because of the demand required for treating it.
Getting affordable health care in America is put big pharma in it's place and legitimize herbal supplements as methods which can naturally heal for those who would rather NOT use prescription medicine. As it stands, prescription medicine is being handed out like it's candy. It's absurd.
Actually, that would be untrue. They could go in and get treatment. No one can be denied treatment especially if it is life threatening. Some people might elect not to have the surgery and accept the consequences. Why would someone be willing to do that? Because, they have lived long enough to see how things became worse and rather leave this world with the hope that others might break through BS, and make a change after they are gone.
I can already tell you, I live with my mother who has a great many things wrong with her presently. She is on a prescription medicine which is monitored because the insurance company refuses to allow her the surgery she would need to have in order to get off the prescription medicine she is on. The surgery is to close a hole in her heart. Because, she cannot have the surgery, she must constantly have blood work done(being charged to her insurance) and she must have a specific amount each day. If not regulated by medicine nor surgery, then she will develop minor strokes as she did already and possibly die from one.
Getting older inherently increase health care costs because at some point, you or me, are going to get to the point where we will not be able to physically take care of ourselves. Which means, someone else is going to have to do it. The only way that doesn't happen is suicide or seclusion from everyone else, so you can die in peace.Nobody wanted socialized medicine...so they gave us Capitalist Medicine: Result...complaining.
That is another question no one here as addressed yet!!! Why is medical so high that insurance has become neccessary?
Reagan and the two Bushes eroded business regulations and allowed the oil and insurance companies to rape and rob this Country and its' people blind. California will be the first to go. The rest of the States won't be far behind. That's why Justice Roberts went against the Republican Right Wingnuts and passed the health care act. You have to get off your porch in November and help President Obama save this Country by voting the Republican bums out of office.
http://www.gainesville.com/article/2012 … &tc=ar
The reason why I said what I did above is because there was a time when I didn't have any health insurance. It was because I couldn't afford it. I remember my family telling me that I would be in big trouble if I had to have serious surgery and couldn't pay for it. I'm so thankful that I have Medicaid now.
I think fair is a poor choice of words. Try "appropriate" "reasonable" "acceptable" or even "is the government justified" in forcing people to buy health insurance?
Life isn't fair, so who cares? If the government says you are required to buy health insurance, then do it or pay the fine. It's that simple.
However, I do not believe the government is justified in forcing the entire population to pad the pockets of insurance company executives, nor do I find it acceptable, reasonable, or appropriate for the government to get involved in my health habits. It's that simple.Let's see. More right wing lies from lying liars. ONE PERCENT of people are expected to have the money to buy life insurance, but to slack off and let the people pay for it if they get sick. Yeah, they should pay a penalty, that ONE PERCENT.
Ask Mitt Romney, your own presidential candidate! His program does exactly what you are whining about! ONE PERCENT of people in Massachusetts want to be idiots, so they are supposed to pay a penalty.
I see what is going on: Mitt Romney is white. President Obama is Black. Republicans are racists to the point of destroying America if that is what it takes to get rid of the Black president! Whee!!This is silly.
Near the end of his first term, President Obama currently has one African American in a top level cabinet position: Attorney General Eric Holder.
The five Clinton appointments in 1993 represented a first in U.S. history and the largest number of Blacks in high ranking positions ever up to that time. Never before had an African American held any of the four positions previously at Commerce, Agriculture, Energy and Veterans Affairs.
When George W. Bush took office in 2001, he appointed three African Americans to his Cabinet. He nominated the first African American Secretary of State, Colin Powell, and the first African American National Security Adviser, Condi Rice. Eric Holder was acting Attorney General for only a few months – but Bush never intended to appoint Holder to Attorney General and instead nominated former Senator John Ashcroft. Bush also appointed Rod Paige as his Education Secretary and Alphonso Jackson as Secretary of Housing and Urban Affairs
http://politic365.com/2012/04/26/obama- … t-the-top/
If people who don't get insurance don't get care, that would be fair but inhumane. I prefer the option of either mandating insurance or socializing care.
Nobody is being forced to do anything.
You keep your private insurance policy and your doctor. You get help in buying a policy if you are low income.
If you've got a lot of money and still don't buy healthcare then you get $95 added on your taxes during the first year of the program. They say it will apply to about 1% of the population.
And yes, that's fair if this project will now lower my health care policy by $1400 becasue I'm not paying for your use of the ER room.
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