Madame X, Ma'am--
Yes. I did decide to pass arguing with some who knows so much more than I do, as it was/is a sunny day in San Fran, that city bastion of the liberal left...and thought I'd go down to the bay and see it since I've been out in the desert too long.
I'm sooo curious now, however, have you ever heard of socialist libertarianism? Got dat dare term outa one them books I had me the occasion to read.
Oh! And I think somebody mentioned semantics when it was applied to political ideologies? Language IS a very interesting area of study. Some should read up on it more.
And I'm just in, resting my poor tired feet for a bit...
2 final things on this subject, and then you can all throw eggs at me for being trite...
1. So what if it IS a choice?
So many arguments for gay rights wind up circling back to this...the whole "are we born this way or is it a choice" thing. That's a weak position to start from. Why defend ourselves even if it WAS a conscience choice? (which, of course, everyone knows it's not).
This implies that there is something wrong with being gay but, oh well, we had no choice!
...but I tell you what: If I could push a magic button right now and miraculously be 100% heterosexual and a million dollars came with it, I wouldn't have to think about it for even 1 second...there's no way.
No offense, hetero's but it's awesome over here on the "dark side" And a lot of people before me sacrificed a great deal so I could enjoy the relatively open and comfortable life I live today (even with a GF in the military). I don't mean 100 years ago either...I mean in my lifetime.
Oh Yeah, here's the second thing:
2. Other people's opinion's of me are none of my business.
G'night, fun people.
LOL I personally don't have anything against gays, and am a devoted lesbian myself - but there is a problem Houston - gays can't reproduce. This is what is wrong from the specie point of view. Gays are a dead end of their branch - unless they choose to forfeit their gayness at least for a moment and take part in conceiving a baby
Okay, I was just logging off...
If by dead end you mean the end of their particular family lineage, not necessarily. Perhaps they have hetero brothers/sisters/cousins who are reproducing?
If you mean that gay people can't "reproduce" more gay people, well...I'm sure that's not what you meant.
And, of course, they can and do make babies...just not biologically with each other.
And, of course, all unions are not about procreation anyway, right?
OK, this time for real. Goodnight!
Yep, that's what I meant. Brothers/sisters are fine, but every person is unique in their gene and possible mutations, so by declining any hetero interaction you just withdraw your unique genes combination from the specie gene pool. No more no less, has nothing to do with legal marriage, nothing to do with procreation, nothing to do with morals - pure biology
Were you aware that a baby can now be conceived by splicing two females eggs together, Misha?
There is even some talk scientifically that the male sex is at the end of its rope evolutionarily speaking. LOL. I bet that one will freak you out a bit,
Oh, and btw, (sorry) your use of strawman in that incidence is incorrect--must be the ESL again. And my sis is doing the producing of babies in my family. I'll produce degrees and books, thanks, .
American science knows wonders. If this is true - and does not result in unproportional number of mentally or otherwise challenged children, I am all for it - we do need more genes in the pool
And I think I used a strawman properly - you assumed the intentions I did not have, namely fighting against gay marriages, and built your post to argue with this stance - that existed only in your imagination. Tell me if this is wrong
I read about that theory a few years ago, (that human males are biologically speaking becoming obsolete). and there was pretty good evidence to support the theory. Thank God there are still spiders to be whacked and jars to be opened.
Uh, Misha. I have not, nor plan to conceive a baby. Is my 'union' with a man then wrong?
That is no argument AGAINST gay marriage.
Really? So you have experienced being treated as a second class citizen? And you can't get married either? And how about the simple things like being able to hold the hand of the one you love in public or not having to deal with douchebags and rednecks 3 or 4 times a week?
It's hard being "us", ain't it Misha? You should come to the meetings more.
Misha you aren't forfeiting your "Gayness" to conceive a baby. How do you think so?
Last time I checked you need both genders to be able to do this. At least if we are talking humans
If by both genders you mean a sperm and an egg... then yes. However one would not be forfeiting their "gayness" by conceiving a child. They would still be gay and now a parent.
If a woman used a sperm donor to have a child with her wife she is still a lesbian. Becoming preggers doesn't change your sexual orientation.
Pardon my rum-addled ignorance, but what in bloody blue blazes does being able to produce offspring have to do with being legally married?
Unless, of course, you are talking about something else in which case I'll go back to my drink and shut the hell up
My same thought....another Jim Beam on the way..
I was talking about something else - and you do not need to shut up
Thanks, Misha...I thought you might have been thus the disclaimer...
Just a funny (to me, anyway) aside...when I was writing my response to Madame X "left-wing" kept coming out "Left-wind" and "Right-wing" was "Right-wig"....I switched over to water!
Sure, you are more than welcome
Still think you are missing the point about no material difference between left wind and right wig, but most Westerners do - so no biggy, you guys will learn it on your own pretty soon. Those who survive will become immune
It's actually nice to know that you would not change yourself into a hetero along w/ a mil if you had the choice! That shows you're pretty clear on who you are, even amid sacrifices and cruelty and that is to be admired.
I always said I'd never want to be gay--hear me out, , as I would have to contend with this kind of stupidity and bigotry and less than human status, frankly--'Gay marriage is wrong'--indeed. Who are they to decide anything on other people's lives or rights? Rights they themselves enjoy. But then, maybe that means I am just a hetero-sexual. So I'm glad that you are happy being you.
And yeah, so what if it is a choice (I'm sure it is actually somewhat 'genetic,' somewhat environmental/choice, as most of life is)? That encompasses the 'theological' argument--if you want to call it that--of most of the simpleton Christianists. I cringe when I hear it, personally.
Well, I decided to head to the pub for a cocktail with a few friends and all I talked about was the contents of this forum. It made for some great entertainment. I left with only 120 posts and see now there are 178. I think this is one of those overnighter subject.......LOL
Just fine Ron. I see we are still going strong on the marriage issue. Thank God the whole Nazi thing has been dropped. Didn't quite get that at all...
I'm almost as new to these forums as you are..they are very entertaining. The ones involving religion and politics are the best because the arguments are the most absurd. It can really be fun to read reply #300 or so and see if it has anything to do with the original topic.
Websense, you just don't get it. The entire forum is a joke, one that you apparently don't get. Darkside posted a facetious rant with the hope that someone would unwittingly take it seriously. The reason your statements are being ridiculed is that you took the bait - hook, line, and sinker. You and Darkside are making the same argument; the difference is that he knows how ridiculous it is and is using it humorously. You actually think that the position you take is worthy of serious comment. It is not.
Quintas: People should know when they are conquered.
Yes, it's sarcasm, plus 'more'. Those who support same-sex marriage live in a reality of their own choosing - and the 10 funny 'reasons' play into their delusion. Therefore, they can laugh, and continue to wallow in their upside-down world - and feel Justified!
Those who support Darksides joke support same-sex marriage. So my position is basically the opposite of Darksides. To feel justified in a position, just create exaggerated stereotypes for those who oppose the position. Laugh, and feel justified in your position, without any proof you are right.
What justifiable arguments do you have against legalizing homosexual marriages?
You've talked about the wording...fine, have the government issue "Civil Union" licenses to couples;heterosexual and homosexual alike confering the same legal rights and benefits "Marriage" licenses do now. Then if a couple wants a "marriage ceremony" they can do so within whatever religious beliefs they hold.
You've talked about sex and procreation and I think we've pretty much beaten that one into the ground.
So what else is there?
Ron, I do get it – I saw the hatefulness and intolerance of the commenters who support the oxymoron of gay marriage.
I responded only after people projected their own hatefulness, simple-mindedness, and intolerance onto those who oppose gay marriage:
RooBee: Too bad logic doesn't work on hateful folks.
Darkside’s response to RooBee: That is profoundly simple! I think you've nailed it.
Galleryofgrace: Those who grew up in the 50's and 60's - were sent to church every sunday if for nothing more than getting out of the house. Religion drilled in their heads that only "one man"- one woman" relationships were correct.
The new generation has not been forced to go to church and have not had religion crammed down their throats- therefore they have not learned the doctrine taught by commercial churches.
I was in a hurry and didn’t express what I saw clearly. It wasn’t the sarcasm of the 10 statements, but the reaction of the haters and foolish who stereotype and ridicule those who oppose what they thing is right. This is how the Rules for Radicals has been working for years:
1. Ridicule the opponent
2. Juxtaposition the ridiculed opponent in the same bag of laughs as obviously ridiculous jokes (10 sarcastic statements)
3. Now, the opponent is on the same ridiculous level as the jokes
These people can’t deal with the issues. They must ridicule their opponent. In most cases, they imply all those who oppose the progressive agenda are religious nuts, hateful, ignorant, illogical, etc. Ironically, these intolerant people are projection their own character, except it’s an anti-religious nut.
Tomorrow the California Supreme Court will begin deliberations on accepting the "gay marriages" that occurred while it was legal and/or decide if the Prop 8 turnover should be reversed.
Yup. 1pm Eastern Time. I'm going to a celebration or protest at 6. I'm hoping it will be a celebration
It was my understanding that the marriages that were already performed would remain legal and recognized regardless of the court's decision which dealt only with the constitutionality of the proposition.
I heard there are two issues on the table for the court to decide, to decide recognize those marriages as legal, or legitamacy of Prop 8.
They are deciding on both. It is a possibility that they will decide to invalidate the 18,000 marriage licenses that California already issued.
This story is more in line with what I understood the situation to be.http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-prop8-supreme-court6-2009mar06,0,798075.story
I was just thinking of doing that tomorrow morning. I do enjoy these forums and just started to post to get more involved.
Then what are your intentions with this 'gene pool' blather? There is argument, and then there is argument that is (to borrow a term I actually got from a conservative, lol) infra argument.
And I reallllly think there are enough genes in the pool. Humans are NOT an endangered species...
Just to make a side point, to a person who asks what could be possibly wrong with homo stance in general.
And again, gene pool is your own decision, I personally have three kids already
The problem with the Homo stance is that it involves bending at the waist and grabbing your ankles. This can injure your lower back as God intended it to as a deterent to taking the Homo stance. On the other hand, the missionary position involving a man and a woman is ergonomically and religiously correct. It is "The one true position", all others are an afront to God.
Hmm I don't remember the last time I had sex in the missionary position. Doesn't give the best orgasm. Sorry!
LOL I can't remember either - even though it does not really affect male orgasm
Positions can totally affect the male orgasm. But not as much. At least someone agrees with me
Very much so. I also have difficulty arriving with the missionary position. Where's Websense now that we really could use his commentary?
Nah, males are much more visual and imaginative. And physically there is only so much of the flesh to stimulate, much less than females have
Actually enjoyed your comment Misha, but you are wrong on the back injury scenario.. Bending forward stretches the normal forward tilting of the lower spinal column and relieves much anatomical pressure. On the other hand, missionary promotes back stress.
Are you qualified to state this by way of medical training? I want to show this post to my wife.
I agree with the back pressure thing. Although the other position puts more stress on the arms and elbows. Not sure how we started this conversation...
I believe this brings us full circle to the joke that began this whole forum, occasionally interupted by serious discussions.
I'm gonna have a Jim Beam and then go Kama my wife's Sutra. Goodnight all.
LOL Another straw man fighting
Where did I say a word about back injuries? All questions on this to Ron!
Hello? I'll once again remind everyone that, at least in the United States, we have separation of church and state. What particular person's view of God thinks about the issue is irrelevant. Unless people are into watching; who cares how others do it?
Oh I'm good. Three this morning makes me a happy girl! Maybe you need a Kama Sutra book?
Who do think they consulted before publishing it?
Thing is, there is no "gay agenda" to be found. What is wanted comes in the form of equal rights to uphold either civil union or Domestic Partnership. I beleive our activists utilized and drew in the term "marriage"" because of the family acts/laws within each State that does not accept anything other than a "marriage" as that beholding a man and a woman, and associated rights. If at all, the only agenda seems to be the right for alternative marriages between same-sex marriages be recognized on the federal level to preserve property, pension, and inhertance rights similar to what legally married persons enjoy today.
Uphold Prop 8 and invalidate 18,000 marriages or uphold Prop 8 and validate 18,000 marriages. Either it is not a win-win situation........
Can you explain separation church and state thing please.
Just some unfinished business: The initial comments quickly strayed from just some jokes when people injected their hatred and intolerance. I responded to that which caused a stir. Then the subject got switched to whatever - far from the topic.
But I was gone for a while, and needed to respond to Ron again. I don't like leaving things unfinished.
Me neither , as it was merely a joke and somehow had been taking seriously I don't like when that happens.
This joke seems to keep coming up with a new punchline.
If the commenters responded to the jokes, OK. But they had to call those who oppose gay marriage as not logical and hateful and religiously deceived.
I should not have responded to that - but chosen to take the battle to a forum or hubpage on that topic.
Ron, keep up the ridicule.
I was gone to beach, sold my townhouse, found an apartment, etc. - busy for awhile.
i would like to be able to marry my house, car and some money if this is ok?
Then do it, if it makes you happy. Although, that is quite different from marrying a human being, even if they are of the same sex.
I can't believe all the discriminative remarks here. You may not agree with their lifestyle, but, it is THEIR lifestyle. Don't they have a right to choose how to live their own life?
I am straight, but, when it comes to matters of the heart, no one should tell you who you can or cannot marry. None of us can help who we fall in love with. Some straight people have fallen in love with the wrong person and had an ill-fated relationship. That's not natural either, but, no one told them they shouldn't marry. No one started a blog about it either. Hell, I'll bet the the wife of NC Governor wish she hadn't married her two-timing husband. So, all straight marriages aren't that great either to put a stipulation on gay marriages. We can't have it both ways.
I don't mean to play devil's advocate here, but, with all that was said that is true. I also find this to be true...gays/lesbians has the right to live and be happy just like straight people. I am straight, but, support gays marriages. They can marry who they want. As straight people, we do it!! I married who I want, who I loved. Why shouldn't they be able to. So what...it is not a natural thing. It is their business and no one has the right to judge and make decisions for them. If they are wrong, they will suffer consequences for it, but, I refuse to worry about who a gay person is marrying because I have my own cross to bear. Sorry, but, that's my take on it
I am straight and I say....let anyone who is not straight do what they want to. It is none of my business what they do. I have had friends that are gay and I have no problem with anyone who is gay. They had to go make a big deal about all of this so that they could do what they want to do, when I feel they should be allowed to marry whoever they wish to marry. It really makes no difference to me what they are doing cuz it is none of my business i guess.
It doesn't matter what people accept or reject. No one is asking other people to be around to be offended. Human rights should not be debated. It was the opinion of many people in the 1800s that Africans should be slaves because they were sub-human. When people want to do something that is in no way affecting other people it should be their person right to do it regardless of what other people think of it.
Oh My God! (and I do have a God by the way) Why is everyone still arguing over this? If you're gay be gay, if you're straight be straight and don't hate anyone for their sexuality or religious beliefs or anything like that. Only hate people who are assholes.
By the looks of it, it was stopped being argued over before you signed up.
Sorry I was a little late to the party, but my opinion is my opinion whenever I choose to have it.
Can you read? Nobody denied you a right for opinion. All what has been said was that the only person still arguing is yourself, so you are better off answering your question yourself, cause we have no way of knowing why you are doing it.
But keep the whining to a minimum.
Listen I merely commented on how many comments your hub got arguing back and forth on all points. As I said I was a bit late finding your hub so maybe my comment was a little redundant but I just felt like I wanted to voice my opinion. Isn't that what the comment box is for? As for whining I have never done such I childish thing in my life, now leave me alone while I Sulk!!! humph!
It doesn't matter who you are or what you are,you need to respect others and not tread on the their personal beliefs. Therefore, I don't hate gays, but don't want them in my home or around my kids. It's not that I think they will make my family gay,but I know it would confuse them. I don't mind my kids dating inerracially, as long as the person is the opposite gender and if they aren't married, refrain from sex in my house.
Inerracial is OK, but not innergender?
Cause it says so in the bible?
You need to read your book more sunshine.
Perhaps your kids could fill you in - not that they have been indoctrinated or anything.........
You are going to have to tell your kids that gay people exist eventually, or they will eventually ask you about them.
they do know, but they still find it strange and say it's not in the BIble(their response). They know I am pretty laid back when it comes to anything else they could throw at me but they must obey my morals and beliefs when in my house...so they can visit when they are older, but keep the riff-raff somewhere else...
another thing, they have the right to come to their conclusions and have their own lives and dreams. I just don't want them to push their ideas down my throat...and will respect them with the same. My kids already enjoy the opposite sex and some of them like a different race...fine by me!
Gay people dont want marriage at least not the one God instigated ,they want their own programme.
..hell give it to them I say...
This was always going to turn into another religious post.
Good to see so many people airing their open minds.....
Does this not count as baiting the fundamentalists??
Surely that is not sporting.
I think so people are having an issue with accepting satire...
Wonderfully written and full of humour. It is an ideal account of the arguments some people use in order to remove homosexuality. Simply delightful that someone on hubpages has the balls to post something like that up.
See, the thing is...you don't choose the lifestyle. If you believe in God, it is not for you to judge another's lifestyle.
My wording didn't sound right when I reread this. I meant that I would have to assume it was not a lifestyle that was chosen. I already stated that I didn't judge - I just didn't agree. I simply don't want to be portrayed as an idiot just because I don't agree. Like I said, I've never bashed anyone, in fact I've had acquantances with some who I've been very friendly with who are gay.
It's really more about when people throw around words like abnormal and saying your against the gay lifestyle. What does that even mean? I'm not saying you have to think being homosexual is ok, if you don't that's just how you feel, just like if someone is attracted to a person of their own sex it's just how they feel too. Can I ask, do your gay acquaintances know you're 'against the gay lifestyle'?
All good points! I'm going to show this list to my best friend, who is gay. He'll appreciate it.
When first read the post I was ready to go out guns blazing, then I fell about laughing once the sarcasm sunk in! lol!
Unfortunately, we still ive in an age where people are not as liberal as we might like to believe. I wrote a hub about it some time ago, inspired by the fact that a mayonaisse commercial for TV in the UK was pulled because people complained about the so called "kiss" between two men.
seems quite apt to let you know about it here, not that I'm in the habit of advertising hubs on the forum.
Is it a sign of maturity that I do not get as worked up over polarizing issues even though I have strong beliefs on one side vs. the other?
It's hard not to judge, yet want to correct, when someone writes / says / publishes something diabolically opposed to what you know to be true.
Especially when you cannot clearly articulate your principles. It's so much easier to throw mud.
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