Hi every body, posted and read most of hubbers comment on issues of marriage. And also with my experience in marriage counseling I have discovered so many challenges facing these days marriages and of course the high rate of divorce in the world. And with this I want to know is it really possible for any marriage to survive without God?
Your comment will be appreciated
Yes. God is a figment of your imagination and I have a successful marriage with some one who does not believe in your invisible super being - so - yes no problem.
Not for Christians though - I understand the divorce rate amongst people who actually get married and promise in front of god to stay together - is quite high.
God must be very angry with those people for breaking their word to god. Remind me to look elsewhere if ever I need marriage counseling though.
You wouldn't by any chance have written a hub about this subject would you? By the way - welcome to hubpages - let us hope you are not here solely to spread the word of god.
Thank Mark Knows for your response. in the first place I have written a hub in this regards you can check my profile if you care. Yes i know a some of you will say yes but if you look deeply and search your soul You will know that what some of you are saying successful marriage is not. for instance where couples are just managing to stay together. I am talking about where the peace and love of God radiate.
Your question was "loaded". You did not stipulate "successful". You asked if it can survive. I have to say yes, it can. As Mark pointed out, Christian marriages are failing at about the same rate as those "outside" of the Church. ( )
I am happy to add my marriage would not have survived without God, at least not in it's present form. After 31 years, it keeps improving all the time. It wasn't always the case.
aka-dj I am very happy you put the last statement on your post. the mistake people make is this once they hear God the next is to start attacking church as if other religion arround are not serving god. any way i am not surprise because the truth is always bitter to hear. I am talking about your personal relationship your maker in relation to your marriage. I really want a deeper thinking rather than what some of my fellow hubers are doing. Once again Thanks for your well thought comment
This is such an A-typical Christian response to anyone that does not think or believe the way they do.
Christians are leading a illusion filled life based in faith of a fictional god and we aren't thinking deeply enough.
Ohma, thanks for your responses so far, if what i said in that post offend you, i didn't mean to do so. but I just want to ask do ever believe there is a being that control the affair man on this earth? if you believe then how to you relate with this?
The only offense that I have taken is not coming directly from you. It is an offence at the total Christian community.
It has nothing to do with what I believe or do not believe it has everything to do with the way Christians here and in real life so quickly resort to insults and name calling when they realize that others have spent years researching the subject of gods existence and have come to the conclussion believing in god is not something that they can personally relate to.
This is one of the door knocker threads I was referring to - where we met just now Bible babble without any foundation or even an attempt to make the reasonable and enjoyable argument we get from our residents that we know and love.
I did not bring anything from the outside in> I responded to this quote written by the person who posted the OP. He states that because others do not agree with his beliefs we are not thinking deeply enough.
So, that is an insult, or name calling?
But, as you may know, that line goes both ways.
Many a "good atheist" told me to "think for myself", and called me "indoctrinated", "brainwashed", and things a little worse than that.
I just choose not to accept them (names) into my life.
How true. It's a bitter pill to swallow where the more prevalent societies with religious beliefs exist, so do the increase in rates of divorce, crime and domestic violence. The more secular the society, the lower these rates become.
These cold hard facts are very difficult to face for many believers.
My marriage is doing just fine. Your belief that a person requires God in their life to be at peace is not only insulting it is also very unprofessional. There are many ways to find peace in your life and when a couple is in trouble telling them that they will never find peace unless they convert to worshiping God is very dangerous.
I would respectfully suggest that if you intend to use your therapy to preach your faith you should reconsider your choice of careers.
Assuming that his "patients" are NOT believers. If they all already are, it's most appropriate, no?
No! Any decent therapist would not be in the position simply to propagate their belief in anything. Therapy is not about the therapist. In that position people expect that they are paying for a service from a well educated and respectable provider.
It is not about what your or my personal beliefs are it is about a place for everything and everything in its place.
Most people who are seeking marriage counseling do not go to the church to find it.
If you are marriage counselor and think your clients must believe in your delusions to make a good marriage then you should take up plumbing or something useful.
You'd make a great counselor - spitting in the face of the majority of your clients who believe in God and rely on faith in all aspects of their lives. Just tell them how stupid they are for not buying your secular worldview lock, stock, and barrel and send them on their way...
But I am not pretending to be a counselor am I. And I have every respect for people living in their faith, but very little for those who try to spread their delusions to others.
So faith and delusions are synonymous to you?
Of course - you having faith means that you believe in something unprovable, that has never shown itself to be there, on its own this is just a choice you make, trying to tell me what it thinks and says is clearly delusional.
Yes, but you said you respect living faith, but ridicule it's "propagation".
"I believe you can be successful at (...something)". I can't "prove" it, but I can encourage you to "take a risk and try".
Or am I delusional in this instance too.
BTW, parents do (should do ) this with their kids. (Ahh, build their faith in the possibilities of life etc.)
" And I have every respect for people living in their faith"
It is pretty obvious that you do not.
That's a great question Karobi and I'm eager to see how everyone weighs in. In my experience, many failed relationships and one beautiful one today, is that my marriage today is stronger than ever because we both seek God in our lives. We're not religious, but more spiritual rather. You're bond to get a lot of people discussing this topic and no doubt will hear things on dogma, and all sorts of opinions, but in my experience, relying on a spouse or anyone else for our own happiness is not going to work.
Expectations lead to resentments, which will kill any relationship.
“Men do not attract that which they want, but that which they are.”
-James Allen (As A Man Thinketh)
A few years ago I finally surrendered to the idea that maybe I didn't know everything, I wasn't sure if I believed in God or not, I mean I wanted to, but I started with the main idea that "there may be a God, but I know I'm not it."
Certainly today I believe in God, and when I finally committed to something long enough to experience a power greater than myself (call it God, Buddha, whatever), I finally learned to love myself. That's when the universe put me in a position to meet someone whom was on a similar journey and eventually became my wife. Funny, today is our 3rd anniversary of the day we met so it's fitting I found this forum topic.
I do think it's possible for a marriage to survive without God, just as it's possible for all those who survive everyday seemingly without God; at least consciously to them. However, having been in a marriage now with a spouse who seeks her own happiness and journey with God as I do myself, the happiness and fulfillment is incomparable to previous relationships. Today I seek to be understanding rather than understood and see what I can bring to the relationship as opposed to "what's in it for me." And simply I never had those desires or even knew what that meant before I began living spiritually.
I think it can be as simple as having fewer unreasonable expectations of oneself and others. If we rely on God to guide us, then we're not relying on our spouse for guidance and happiness, thus fewer expectations and resentments.
You really didn't need to bring in any form of god to help - you could have just got over your low self esteem and got the same result without the unnecessary god baggage.
thanks Robakerost fro your great response, i hope Mark knowles will read your piece. and agreed totally with your view and believe other will also air their view
oh this story isn't ending so easy...! Once you bring 'god' into the forums, the arguments run on forever. They'd even outlast a marriage, if you ask me!
karobi: I wanted to personally respond to your thread without the interference of God hating bashers who want a chance to sling sneering negative energy toward a logical, interesting thread topic. Of course, I know it's not possible, but I want to respond anyway.
I know that without God, my union with my spouse would have died a long time ago. Now, 12 years later, I can truly say that the foundation of faith and committed love have been the glue for the relationship. My spouse is a very religious, spiritual, devoted man of God who puts God first. That's the only way I want it. As well, I have tried to rely on God to guide me through the valleys. I thank you for your insightful contribution to the forums despite the negativity that follows. I
Typical covert attack. I am disgusted by your thinking about those who do not believe in your fantasy.
I must confess that the marriage is also very lacking. so it's not perfect either. One can admire a spouse but not be connected either. True. But with the foudation of Faith it makes the structure less fragile.
The breakup reasons are not related to God, so marriage can survive without God. Some people even change their faith to marry another religion people.
Yes, a marriage can survive without God quite easily. Why? Because you don't fall in love with God, you fall in love with your spouse. Nor can God end a marriage. Why? Because you don't grow to resent God, you grow to resent your spouse.
NO. Every relationship is God given and every thing that's happening is within God's plan, now, can any marriage survive without GOD? definitely not, that's why some marriages didn't succeed it is because they didn't put GOD in center of their lives, they are missing their guides and end up being nothing. Always remember that no successful being, relationship, family, business or anything in this world succeed without GOD.
It is obvious that many couple deny the existence of God. That's great! It's their choice. What is not understood is that the very bonds of love that they share are still fostered, nurtured and sustained through a Higher Power, God. Without that central and unmovable focus, our lives would be for not and as a lifeless ship without anchor.
Can it survive? To some couples, they think so. In absolute reality - no.
goldenpath, thanks for your observation,it really surprise me a lot people are still confusing the Existence of God with mere religion that is causing problem all over the world. those who kill people em-mass in the name of religion still claim they are serving God. These are the confusion that must be clarify in the mind of people.
Yes. Clearly you aren't interested in any other opinions other than your own, but the answer is yes, definitely.
As there are umpteen millions of successful marriages (and other forms of adult partnerships) which have absolutely no connection to the Xtian religion, then a belief in the Xtian deity is clearly demonstrated as being unnecessary for any marriage to work well in the long-term.
And here we go again !! now not only in Religion forum ,but in Gender & Relationships as well !!
You're so obvious, shoving your God everywhere !!
So... Why don't you give us a break !!!!!
I find christians so childish, that I wonder if they're really grown ups. Please !!!
You look sober. Seeing you after a long time, as I went out of town. Keep this picture
How is God related with marital relationship. God has nothing to do with marriage. It has something to do with the husband and his wife. It will last long if there is
What I find interesting and rather ironic are some of the signs you see on churches, the ones where they offer grief counseling for the divorced. LOL!
My husband is an Atheist. We "survive."
Why do you think 'God' needs to have a relative place in your marriage in the first place?
Personally, I believe that God exist, He is the creator where male and female is created. So through Him both gender are united and blessed. As He has the power on His creation, so are Him will discern the sacred of a marriage. About 80 percent and above those married people who rely on God usually going through a happy marriage.
There are many broken marriages out there with help of god. There are plenty of divorces out there with help of god. There are many incest cases in families with help of god.
So answer to your question is Marriage only survives without help of god.
If you don't get this then this will clear :
Do you mean does it matter what your partner's religious beliefs are...or are you just generally, refering to regular prayers for marital bliss?!
In any case, I HAVE known a few marriages that couldn't survive 'too much' of god either...
Soul ? *beats me*
Can we talk about empirical evidence of soul ever ever ever in our life ? Or we just prefer to talk about our alter-egos as soul with some garlic-ginger-masala stories ?
Perhaps, this thread belonged more in the religious forum. I'm sorry, but I can just foresee where it's headed....
Well from the title we can see that it was more of belief preaching than actual relationship issue-solving. It deserves to be in Religions & Belief forum.
Interesting point to think is why god needs to care if X-12999 creation of his getting divorced from Y-34000 creation. Why god will bother to save that marriage ?
If any higher entity starts to take interest in his creation then his very purpose of creating them and letting them behave with so-called free will is trashed. If any higher entity is letting people marry or not-to-marry or letting-divorced then all decisions his creations make is part of his known set. Why he'll bother to change those set ? for sake of time pass or to change the game for some new set of results ?
He never stopped taking interest.
Or have you not heard???
that is your assumption that he takes interest and my assumption that any higher entity will hardly cares for his creation.
We both are playing on assumption. By the way, if I let you maintain 600 parakeets, which one will be your favourite ?
Well, that said, I like my assumption. (Actually, He told me that He cares, long before I assumed it). But never mind on that one.
As for the 600 parakeets, I'd love to have them, if I could find the time to look after them. But then, you are assuming that "God" does not have the time, the ability nor the inclination to care. A purely human limitation that does not apply to the Eternal One.
i didn't even talked about point of time and you started with assumption ? My approach there was why god will choose with some angle of nepotism.
One more point is you talked with god really ? next time you talk ask him the solution for AIDS that will help a lot or maybe H1N1 as there is issues with vaccines. we'll see how good we talk with god then. See how much you assume just for sake of personal happiness ?
Skyfire that is where you getting wrong. if you have children, i want to ask do you think about their welfare or you just let grow in their foolishness?
so if we don't brainwash our children to your way of thinking, we are letting them "grow in foolishness"?
I don't even know how to respond to this lunacy!
"brainwash" is a false term, but everyone influences their children. Atheists do it as much as anyone else.
true, but I would never call another person foolish for the way they raise and influence their children. that is the difference between me and the OP
Well, that separates you from most of the avowed atheists around here.
I'm also not an atheist. That is just another label for a group created by either a believer or non-believer (I could care less which) which I have neither signed up for nor subscribe to their beliefs.
1974, i am surprise you use the word brainwash, that is a complete digression from what we are talking about. I am talking about being involve in their welfare you are busy talking about being brainwash. Please what i am sayin is far away from brainwashing.
What foolishness ? I'll never ask them to be schizophrenic and talk to some sky-daddy on skype. They have problem with relationship (like tolerance with partner, likes and dislikes) then they need to solve it on first instead of holding hands and lighting some candles and praying to sky-daddy on skype by assuming he talks with them all the time. Being real solves problem instead of being delusional.
Respectable therapists pay for the education they have received to be qualified in there field the same as a Dr. or auto mechanic. would you suggest that these people should not be paid as well?
I was referring to the Church counselors in respect of charging.
My pastor, and his wife did a superb job helping us in the early days of our marriage, and it was FREE.
I am happy to hear that you found the help that was right for you and that tings are working for you. You sought out help from the church and that is what you got.
People who are seeking help outside of the church have the right to expect that the help be of a professional nature and not a spiritual one.
Unless the help is spiritual, is it really help.
And I say that in the Non-Religious sense.
I believe we are ALL spiritual beings, and anything that affects us "deeply", ends up affecting our spirit (soul) call it what you will.
In other words, once you accept something right into the very heart/core of your being, it becomes a lasting change. Would you agree?
I do not believe that intentionally convoluting the idea of spirituality to manipulate the outcome of your argument is very Christian-like.
It should be really quite simple. If you are a believer and you are looking for guidance ask at your Church. If you are a non believer looking for guidance seek elsewhere.
It is quite clear to me that all the believers will tell you "no" and the non-believers will tell you "yes".
When you ask a yes/no question to a group that is clearly divided in two, and you already know what the answers will be, why bother even asking it unless your ultimate goal is to try to convince half the group that they are wrong?
yes its quite possible .. survival of a marriage depends not on God but solely on the couple
There are many marriages in other countries who don't believe in God survive. Look at the Chinese, the Indians, and the Japanese.
Hi fightkeeper I disagree with you it seem you don't know the difference between God and religion. Do they say they don't serve God there in those country you just mentioned?
How would you get to believe in a god without being indoctrinated by religion?
Well in Hinduism there are many gods, the same goes for Shinto, Buddhism doesn't have any gods, and the Chinese majority worship their ancestors. So the way you phrase the question, my answer is still yes.
A marriage relationship is not necessarily an expression of God bringing two souls together. Oftentimes it is an arrangement for two people to come together and start a family. Marriage is a human construct just as religion is.
Man puts in 100%
Women puts in 100%
Both understand that if one truly loves, he does not expect, but respects, and gives instead of takes.
Does not matter if they believe in God or do not.
It can work with a lot of hard work and maturity.
P.s I have seen marriages fail on both sides unfortunately.
And he looked down from heaven....saw them lovingly walking hand in hand...elbowed the Arch Angel Michael in the side and said,"Want to see something funny...ZAP!....MARRIAGE....LOLOLOLOLOL!
From statistics I found, the reason marriages of people in Christian religions fail more often than some is because they marry much younger. Due to the belief that sex outside marriage is wrong, people marry young and too quickly.
Yes marriage, relationships, chair leather and postage stamps can survive without you god, or your god, or your god, or your god, and without your god as well!
If you require a god to keep a marriage together, then it is possible you were in the wrong relationship to begin with.
really thisisoli, you think you don't need God at all.
I don't feel any need to hold myself accountable to some imaginary being. I try to avoid most religious topics because it often ends in futile arguments. However I really do think that if religion is the only thing holding a relationship together it is in essence a bad relationship.
you see i heard from a lot people on this hub not know the difference between religiosity and God. if that can be achieved that will make a lot of difference
How in hell do you separate religiosity from belief in the invisible sky fairy?
When people start talking how god is something other than a religious creation they have already lost the argument.
A lot of us, it seems.
So - tell me - you asked a question and now you are fighting with the people who answered in a way you did not want to hear. What are you trying to achieve?
You think you are going to persuade anyone that your invisible super being exists?
Or were you just looking to have a fight with those of us who do not believe the same garbage you believe?
I told you - I have a successful marriage. I do not believe in god. My wife does not believe in god. Your imaginary friend does not exist.
So - yes - it is quite possible for a marriage to survive without god.
But - You did not respond to me - why is that? Is it because I did not give you the answer you wanted?
Hi Mark in the first place i have responded to your post before, and there is no way i will post a thread for me to fight with people simply because you don't believe what i believed on. What i know is that a hub like is created for all of us to learn from each other nobody is an island of knowledge. You told us yes and that your own succeeded. so that is noted. anyway thank for your response
This was your response:
So what is this crap about peace and love of god radiating?
You think you know what my marriage is like and disparage it because I don't believe the garbage you do? How dare you suggest that we are merely "managing to stay together"?
You are here to push you ridiculous beliefs and feel that you can tell me what my marriage is or is not? Is this the peace and love of god radiating?
So - you have now learned that it is possible to have a successful marriage without GOD - haven't you.
mark that is what you believe not what other believed. so you don't have to ask that can of question.
i beleive we are all different people with different beleifs and opinions we are not all going to agree on one thing.
I'd rather talk about "the priest and the alter boy" stories we are always hearing about. Any strong christians out there want to discuss that? I mean, God WAS present during those activities...correct? Since, in some cases, the molestations happened in the House of God. Or, will an exception be made for THEM? I'm just wondering. I don't care one way or the other.....
If you look at the 10 commandments and say this is something you want you and your mate to live by then I would say you need God for your marriage to work, for God wrote them. If you feel you don't need God's influence in your marriage then he won't be there to help you. I would say, take all the help you can get.
He wont be there either way! Fairy fairy in the sky. why oh why oh why oh why?
Better the Beatitudes as well than just the Commandments.
I'm not too sure if you still look at the replies to this but i thought id add a comment.
Im 18 btw. I was raised by parents who have been married for 35 years today:)I can truly say that if my parents never brought God into their relationship then my family would not be where they are today. I say this because 11years ago my parents began attending catechesis (the neocatechumenal way) and they have changed greatly. I remember that before (yes, they were married in the church, but just because they were married in the church it doesnt mean that they were REALLY in a close bond with God) it wasnt until the neocatechumenal way that I saw a change in their relationship. I knew that a love like theirs (now) cannot be attained without God present in their marriage (like ACTUALLY present to the point where they accepted him fully in it) because prior to joining the way my dad was barely present in our lives, he was always working and when he was home he was always angry. He used to be very physical when angry. When we all started the way i saw a COMPLETE change in my dad (something that cannot be done by human hands) it had to be God, and i know it is God. Now, because of my parents relationship and my relationship that ive now formed with God, i know that nothing can be done without god. Nowadays, i now have a boyfriend, and Im happy to say that we both believe that we cant have a relationship without God in it. We vowed eachother to stay pure til marriage and now were going on a year:) and im completely happy that God has allowed me to find someone who understands and accepts my beliefs. Because honestly, there is no successful relationship without the acknowledgement of God. God should come first, so that through God you are able to love others in a way no one can relate to. A love that is unselfish. Because noone really knows how to love. God is love, love is knowledge, knowledge comes from god.There is no true love without the prescence of God there.
but thats just my opinion. no one has to agree. Because I know for a fact that God has a journey for all of us, and if the journey that you choose to take does not involve him then that is your choice. People think god is more vengeful than merciful but if that was the case then we'd all be dead by now. He's the only one who will have the greatest capacity to love even though others may hate him.
Nothing can survive without God's command and maintenance and sustenance. If he will's it will survive but we have to meet the best requirements for its survival
you mean by belief in god or non belief in god by both partner?..didnt get your question...i know many atheist couple married for 20 plus years...so god equation doesnot come into picture for them...at same time i know many couple with firm believe in god and married for more than 20 years...so it is inconclusive...yes like every thing god is useful to carry on but other than that i dont think god and marriage are related..
I don't know, but if I get married I'll sure give it a try.
My guess is yes since before God was popular there were many couples who made it without him. And still are today.
Not saying having God in people's lives and marriage is a bad thing for them.
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