Christians are to be "the salt of the earth." How?
- genaeaposted 12 years ago
0This question comes from my experiences with social networking. So many claim to be children of God, but mostly, their words are full of selfishness and pride. They spew out "advice" meant to hurt others; they brag about their "accomplishments" and God's glory is rarely mentioned. We as Christians are in the world and not of it.
I need opinions on what it means to be "salt" as Jesus spoke about? I would like to hear from all willing to participate.Salt was one of the most valuable essential commodities two thousand years ago - no mystery or egg levitation etc - but as a daily use value and means of bartering it was different to gold in that everyone had to have it.
Salt has many uses but the one use not mentioned yet in this thread is that it is used as a preservative. Salt is used to preserve nearly every type of food there is.
To be the salt of the earth is to preserve the earth. If all believers were taken out of the earth, the earth would self-destruct because there is nothing left to preserve it.Aaahhhh!!! I see that clearly:) salt's preservation quality was mentioned earlier, however, it did not have this spin. Yes, God could not find salt in Sodam and Gommorah and the whole town was tossed to the ruins. But ironically, they ended up with plenty salt at the end, didn't they?
To hold high value and standard to themselves and to Christ.
And social networks are used wrongly by most people. I admit, I say things I shouldn't on Twitter but I make a point to delete the things I think are disrespectful to myself, others or most importantly, God.A lot of questions are bound to come from social networking.
You caught that too, huh?
I've found that very few truly walk the walk vs those who claim to.
Oh my dear it goes much deeper than that. They give out "advice" which isn't actually "advice" but seem to be. It's odd how they talk about their "accomplishments", when it's only half the equation.
Really? Then why does your body say different?
To have love, mercy and compassion, which is the bread and butter of peaceful living with self and others around you. On a global perspective, his teachings need to be expanded upon slightly to be effective.
I'm sure one question you will have from this post is what exactly is needed to expand upon his teachings? And, I recognize them as the 5 Keys to Life.I am really amazed to hear, As we all know that Jesus was only messenger of One God. He didn't gave supremacy to any human to other on the base of Christianity. In this regards, I would like to say that Atheism is better than the Christianity. Is it so?
We are to be salt in that we are to be perservatives and flavorers of this world. We must preserve the word of God and flavor this world with it.
That's a lot easier said than done, though. Humility and a willingness to listen to others before talking are absolutely essential. Of course we must tell people about Jesus, but what do we do if they won't listen? Or if they have arguments that sound good?
(Go back to the Bible, of course!)Hi Chris. You do realize that going back to the Bible for a rebuttal to an argument that sounds good serves no real purpose; since an argument that sounds good is coming from someone with knowledge of the Bible in most cases. The standard Christian rebuttal is usually along the lines of 'well, God told me' (which doesn't rebut anything) or 'the Bible says' (which you already know the other person doesn't agree that it said it, or is already arguing against).
The main problem I see is that Christians admit they don't trust their own ability to reason. My question is why? Why do they not trust the good inside? I've always felt that the gospels appealed to you by showing that to look within holds the answers. And I believe Christians do attempt this, but there has to be a starting point. There has to be law that the whole story is hinged on. You can't take everything written in the book as gospel because it does contradict in places. That is why love has to be the starting point. Love has to be the result.
Not the word. It means nothing by itself. Every action needs to be compared to the reason for the law. Front to back. If it doesn't show love for all involved, it's short of the mark. Even our thoughts. It's an impossible goal, but that is what the reason for the whole thing is. When you interpret that reason out of the text, you negate all value of the text. Imo.Well, what I was actually trying to say is that when we have doubts, we should always go back to the source of the Word, which is the Bible. The better you know the Bible, the more you realize you don't really "know" the Bible. I've talked to people with arguments that "sound" good because they know the proverbial "just enough to be dangerous" without having the historical or cultural knowledge, or for that matter even the knowledge of the Bible itself, to support their claim. Most of the time it's just a case of "here's what I believe and I found this text that backs it up" but if you look deeper, you find it doesn't.
And some people have really bizarre beliefs, like that God is jealous of other gods. If you know that Bible at all, you can't claim that, but some people do.
The Bible is a much deeper repository of wisdom than even most Christians understand. And God does talk to us through it.
The Bible does not contradict, and most certainly not on the big points. But to answer your statement directly, the Bible does not teach us to look inward, a la` some eastern spirituality. It teaches us to look outward, specifically to God (through His Son and earthly agent, Jesus Christ.) The Bible teaches that there is no "good inside," and that humans who trust solely in their own ability to reason will always end up screwing things up. No, that's not a very flattering picture of humanity, but to me history has born that out, both within and without the church.
There, we agree (I think. I had a little trouble following that, but then I'm not the smartest guy!)Chris your argument is built on a single premise; that the bible is the word of God. Now after reading it for 28 years I can see there is a marked difference between the Hebew scriptures and the NT. Throughout the Hebrew scriptures they claim of themselves that they are the word of God, and indeed Jesus made the same claim about the Torah. Today Jews believe that the Torah is the word of God, and the prophets are inspired by God, but they do not have the same rank as the Torah.
But the NT is different. It doesn't claim of itself to be scripture and it does not consist of books written by accepted prophets that state "this is the word of the Lord". We might say that Revelation is nearest, but for reasons that I would explain another time, I have my doubts about it.
However, when Paul said "all scripture is God breathed........" he was only talking about the Hebrew scriptures, because only they existed at the time. If subsequently the Church decides that other documents are now scripture, it does not follow that they can be added under Paul's statement. In fact I would suggest that Paul no more thought his sermons were scripture than a 21st century pastor thinks his own sermons are scripture.
Within 200 years of the crucifixion, there were hundreds of documents floating about the churches, so they decided that a rationalisation programme was needed. The first to be held in high regard were Paul's letters. Irenaeus decided there could ony be four gospels on the basis that there were four winds and four corners to the Earth. All other gospels were summarily thrown in the bin. After numerous bishop's committees the Church decided what was in and what was out. They may have made decisions based upon whether they believed the author was an apostle; whether they believed the content had teaching merit; or whether the content lined up with the party line set of beliefs. Whatever the process it was a manade decision. Now some, many, all or none, either are or are not the very words breathed from the mouth of God. What you chose to believe will not alter whether they are or are not scripture. It is unknowable if they are or are not, and to state that they are can only be a statement of faith, nobody can present evidence either way.
Does it really matter? To one outside the Church it does not. It matters to the Church because they built their doctrines upon them. But it is possible that the wrong documents were selected; based on popularity, not validity. In such a case the Christian beliefs would be offset from the truth. I don't believe many of the Church doctrines, such as tithing, belief in demons and Satan, the trinity, or the strings attached gospel. So that puts me outside the Church, and if a Christian is defined as one who accepts the Chuch's creeds, then I guess I'm not one.Actually, no. All other "gospels" were not "summarily thrown in the bin." If you actually read them, you will find very marked difference between the often gnostic Jesus of those "gospels" and the Jesus of the Gospels. That, after 2000 years, people can claim that the early church (meaning a bunch of cranky old territory-defenders in a back room somewhere) simply decided which books were in the Bible is contrary to history but convenient for polemic.
I've only been reading the Bible for 25 years, so you have a few on me, and I agree that there do seem to be some differences between the OT and the NT, but I think that if you actually bear down and study it you'll be able to realize why a lot of those supposed discrepencies exist.Thanks Chris, your knowledge of The histories of the bible are appreciated. It is sometimes necessary to know, as we have seen here. Jesus stated, blessed are those who do not see, yet believe. Faith. Some got it; some DON'T got it. This conversation has been for those who want to know how to get it. Thanks again, for your help.
Where do people get their bizarre beliefs from? The book you think everyone is supposed to go to. God doesn't talk to you through the book. You validate your beliefs through reading that book. Just as other religions validate their beliefs through reading their books.
Confidence that there is a higher power doesn't equate to an understanding of that power. If it did, everyone who believed would believe the same thing.
So many feel that the words of the bible are not enough. This has been the main argument. How do we tell the world about God without it? Not possible in my eyes.
If they do not want to hear, do not cast your pearls.
Aaahhhh, yes, in my desire to convey I get a little persistent. However, I always want the Lord's message to get across. I always feel that another reader is hungry for what the Lord has. So I try to answer biblically so as to try to ensure that self is not a hinderance. Information that goes contrary to the word of God (bible) is dangerous, especially for those who are weak in faith.
Thank you for coming to the discussion. You sound like Chris he sounds like my father.
Grr. Promised myself I was not going to reply anymore. Now I have to kick my own behind just this once.Correct, they are not enough. They are inadequate because the were written by man. Funny thing, the bible says that emphatically. The works of the law {studying it all day/night to keep the commands} could not make them right with God. You are doing exactly what they did, trying to use works {studying the bible day/night} to make yourself right with God. Ain't happening love. Sincere Faith -from the heart faith- is the only way. Not head faith, heart faith. The work of Faith is ???! Really? Really? Did you not read the very book you worship, at all? The great cloud of witnesses, the parting of the sea, the manna, the Voice in the Wilderness, the work of the prophets, Samson, Ruth, David, the Cross, the Empty tomb, The Mighty Wind and fire upon the multitude --the salvation of all mankind without any book to lean on ???! Many here have thoroughly explained it to you, in many ways. I repeat for the third time: Stop striking the serpents head and it will stop striking your heel. Let go and trust the Spirit, the Word, the Small Still Voice that rumbles like thunder in you. Why is that so bloody difficult for you Christians?
If you are that dull of hearing, then god save the queen, I am the one dusting off the sandals, taking back the pearls and wishing you the best. You two have no sandals or pearls to shake or cast. Go back and worship your paper god --or more fitting, admit you are wolf in sheep's clothing --a cloud without rain --a field with no harvest --old wine sacks --having a form of godliness but denying its power --- atheists, by definition. Hence, why I continue to explain that atheists and christians are identical, but neither one seems to get it.
JamesJames, what you say about the heart is true with Jesus Christ. That is what it is all about. Are you trying to tell me that you believe EVERY act of kindness you see in a man? Huh!! Boy, are you hoodwinked in life! Better watch your wallet more closely being so naieve! The Word was made flesh means that when Jesus died on the cross, the laws of goodness (ie, Jewish Laws, Torah) became of no supreme effect. That means that just as man sees hypocrisy in other men, God too sees hypocrisy in the acts of kindness that are fake phony and fraudulent - works of men's hearts. Did you ever meet a person who acted like they liked you but then stabbed you in the back? God LOOKS AT THE HEART ONLY. So, Christ - being the Word - died on the cross so that people who are consumed with self-loathing or guilt and seeking forgiveness that other HUMANS ARE TOO WEAK AND SELFISH TO PROVIDE (HUMANS ARE TERRIBLE AT TRULY LOVING OTHERS - WHICH WE KNOW IS A FACT) can KNOW and have confidence that NO MATTER HOW EVIL AND CRUEL OTHER PEOPLE ARE - God KNOWS - AND HE IS WATCHING over. If you do not believe me, analyze your own dreams - because they will reveal who you are that you are not seeing in yourself. YOu know? So many people kill themselves because humans fail them, so why hate Christianity so much if what someone believes saves them? The arrogance of hating Christians is more evil than any Christian belief.
You're too funny. However, having said that James may believe in a Creator, but his Creator is not the G/god of any religion on this planet. And his understanding is more in-depth than your post could ever hope to be.
I sincerely doubt that since if he were he would not have been so nasty and condescending to the moderator and expressed with the utmost intolerance and hate I ever seen on hubpages.
HubPages moderates their own forums, not the person who started the thread. Please learn how to use and understand HubPages before you make yourself look bad.
Secondly, James does in fact have more depth to him than that of the average believer.But you don't know anyone here either. And who cares anyway? We are not children who chant, "I'm better than you are...I'm better than you are." Your friend was not nice, that's all. It does not matter if he wears purple socks with checked pants. You see, I am more liberal than you because I do not care what he believes; on the other hand, however, he DOES care what a Christian believes and he evidenced his disdain for the person who started this thread. So who has the heart? Who is filled with hate? He is. So please don't now turn this all around to say that because he has a better philosophy he inherently has a greater heart! That would be a lie. Who did you say it was - was it James?.
Lady, I've been around HubPages for approximately 3 years. Please, whatever you do- do not attempt to tell me what I know about who I know.
With your attitude, I would be surprised that anyone would want to be nice to you on purpose, except to use "kill'em with kindness" just to get out of conversing with you. (if you found that hateful? then stop showing your reflection in your posts)
There's a difference between those who form irrational beliefs to suit their ego and those who think rationally.
A lot of people wouldn't be nice, if they had to continually repeat themselves so often because other people choose to be ignorant when reading.
And, this statement serves exactly what purpose? Probably none, but figured I would ask.
Actually, he and many others have a detest ignorance.
Not those who egotistically open threads asking a question and when given a rational and logic answer...dismisses because of ego is too strong in them to accept the answer given.
Actually, that's again your own reflection of yourself. Too bad you don't know how to learn the difference.
Actually, I wouldn't. I don't know what is in James' heart and neither do you. Your perception is clouding your judgment. But, that's nothing new with Christians.
Actually, you wouldn't know a lie, even if it bit you in arm, leg or face.
I'm speaking about YOU as a person and your bad perception.Why Cag??? Were you sent to put YOUR ego on the table. I mean what is all this anger??? You and your friend have these ridiculously long entries for what? You say so much to say what?
I wasn't talking to you. Goes to show you don't honestly pay attention.
We are in a discussion, may i speak as well? Please. I'll be good.
I was talking about the post you responded to. It was directed at someone else, because I used Forum Etiquette to address the person I wanted to discuss something with.
Why what?
If you get the perception that "MY" ego is on the table, then it's merely your own reflection you are seeing.
Not anger. I don't like when people call something HATE when it's not actually hate.
To post to the thread and speak up. Why else?
Apparently, you're limited understanding of life itself is your problem.The hate is evidenced in your constant berratement. Why??? You are "righter"? Ok, we shall see. As for the 1000 wrd posts? It does not take all that wording. If we were speaking in a face to face, do you believe that i would or anyone else would give you the floor for ten minutes? That does not a conversation make. It's a sermon.
If I was doing what you claim I was doing, then I wouldn't have been able to post to the forums as much as I have. So, your so-called evidence is useless.
Irrationality must be addressed regardless of whether the person believes what I say or not.
Righter? Oh please.
See what? Whether or not I am right? Don't bother. You have eyes, but cannot see.
Actually, I break down your statements/posts so it is easier to deal with your irrational nature.
If you and I were speaking face to face, then it wouldn't be within your power to stop me from taking the floor for ten minutes. If you think you could? Then you've mistaken.
Conversation? I'm attempting to converse with you. I'm sorry you lack knowledge and wisdom to speak about the post you started. That in and of itself is a shame you most likely will dismiss and not know why I say you would dismiss it.
I don't preach.I could see you trying to take up ten minutes in a face to face, but do you believe that if you were talking to me, that my powerful feet would not ensure you speak alone?
The assumption that i lack knowledge of the thread I started is more than absurd.
I am not here to argue with you or listen to your put-downs. Though i can handle it all graciously, I would prefer the conversation is pleasant, even if we totally disagree. God's spirit allows kindness, believe me, i've checked:) I'm not asking for a butt- licker, just cordiality (if such a word exists)Talking to myself is how I get answers? Don't you?
Actually, it's not absurd at all. I'm only letting your actions speak for themselves and that's all I have to do.
If that's what you see happening, then it is you who has a bad perception. I'm trying to straighten you out because apparently, you do lack knowledge of the topic you are talking about and James has proven that time and time again.
I don't have a problem with that. It's YOU who keeps making assumptions with nothing to back them up except for a book, you read, but absolutely never researched.
Oh really? Did you speak to a G/god? If so, please do have your psyche checked. It could be extremely important to your health.
I've tried, but you keep telling me that I'm hateful. I cannot help your reflection. Only you can do that.
See how loaded this word can be. One uses it and all of a sudden a few are using it. Cags looks for logic in his line of questioning. If he does not find logic he will keep questioning. It is far from hate. Posters have to make sense logically, if they don't he will persist lol.
As we know, faith is not "logical" it works in opposition. The bible tells us that. The brain cannot fathom believing without seeing. We need something else
You mean religious faith is not logical. This I would agree with. It cannot be since it's irrational.
Experience is the only thing that can replace faith. Faith is only required when experience has not been forthcoming.
Hey Penny, if you don't mind. I would have to say that Experience would either replace Faith or reinforce it? Depending on how one attributed the experience.
The bible says that it is impossible to please God without faith.
Cag, why all the bitterness to get your point across?
No bitterness. Yet again, showing off your reflection.
Irrationality is dangerous. And, YOU possess it in abundance.Irrationality is relative. If you reflect me, you do not display bitterness. I'm only speaking the words if the bible, and you are rationalizing them.
Relative to what exactly? If a Universal Truth exists, then it's not relative now is it? And, I already know there's a Universal Truth. And guess what, No G/god required, needed or warranted.
I'm not reflecting you. I'm explaining that you're seeing your own true reflection because you don't possess a high enough awareness to recognize your own ego.
Actually, I'm doing no such thing. If you were really following Jesus' teachings, then you would have absolutely nothing to do with any religion this world provides. That includes your half history and half mythology book, known as the bible.
Maybe you should actually research the book itself.No need. The God within me agrees. There is no better way to live than to live with God's word written on our hearts.
What is irrational in THIS conversation is relative. The universal truth is yours or God's?
If you didn't care you would not have made the comment you did, that included the very loaded word hate?
Read the whole thread instead of basing your opinions on one post. You will perhaps see the depth that Cags was pointing to...or not.
James hateful or intolerant? Are you serious? He is one of kindest posters on this forum. Disagreeing with you, or genaea doesn't constitute hate.
Like I said, atheists, by definition. Maybe even "Chratheists".
And that is fine, I suppose. To each their own self be true, right?
All these things CAP LOCKED are words of nothing; defense mechanisms to protect what you assume to be the truth -because "brother, the bible says". I know, because, as explained to Gen, and others reading, I taught thousands upon thousands of Christians to do just that for years in a mega church arena, that even the WWE would drop-jaw at.
And as I said now three -no four times - stop striking the serpents head and it will stop biting your ankles. Stop whining, so that Moshe will again strike the rock to give water. Stop lifting the serpent up, to win the day, as Moshe did with the stubborn nation of Israel. Stop listening to the serpent and trying to reason good from evil. Choose the Tree of Life, that you may live -not in the bible and definitely not the Memorex regurgitation of it.
5:39 Edit:
And yes, my last paragraph was snarky. I will not deny it. So, I do apologize for being a bit miffed by the constant derogatory, oft passive-aggressive game, played by the hand of many believers. I am still human, believe it or not.
James.I would doubt that is with the external eyes only that Jacharless would see. Most others perhaps but not Jacharless. His philosophy is much deeper than anything externally based. You might like to read more of his post's rather than base your opinions on the one post that you have chosen to comment on. Like you the inner workings of ones mind is a common thing you share.
Hating is a very loaded word and to accuse someone of being hateful means that you can identify with that word. I would seriously look at the usage of such a loaded word.Hate is not a word that i have used here, but I do see it. Some start to get bitter and say mean stuff about character and intelligence. Why? Can't we agree to disagree before it gets to that point. As a mature woman of almost 40, I am able to discuss without disgust. Please join me.
No I haven't seen you use that word and it reveals much about your inner nature. I do not see you as capable of being that unkind to anyone. I am with you in that we should agree to disagree or when discussions get to a point of disgust to discontinue. Most posters here do just that.
James, under who's authority do you speak these words? God spoke through the miracles you spoke of, but he gave me the bible, that you use to back up your claims of godlikeness . We have the spirit within us if we so desire. But we must obey.
Gen, you say He spoke directly through those things, yes? From Day One straight through the Resurrection. That accounts for nearly 5000 years of human existence. Yet at the same time you go on to say He gave you the bible. But, the bible did not come about until 600 years ago. More so, the New Testament, which seems to be the main part you connect with, versus Torah, which contains the Law-Prophets {95% of the compiled text}. Actually many items were purposes left out of the canonized text and many, many elements from the full Torah. That is another historical fact. That means there was a time line of 1400 years from the Gregorian calendar viewpoint with no New Testament, or compiled text. And that is a fact. So my question to you is, "Why did Creator all of a sudden stop speaking to humanity 600 years ago and replace it with an incomplete historical record?" Second, "How is it possible, using the incomplete verbiage in that compilation, to properly Salt the world with Truth?" in your opinion.
JamesI honestly believe the question of why God wrote it is answered in scripture. However, if not, it is obvious that he does not speak the way he did in Torrah times. I mean, when was the last time you saw a burning bush that was not consumed?
Jesus came. He fulfilled the law and gave us access to the father. So again another obvious sign that we did not always have access.
Jesus said to teach the commands that he gave, they all agree with God, one who does NOT change.
Lastly, i believe that they did not have the new covenant 7000 thousand years ago because Jesus had not come...yet. Seems ok to me. The missing info is not needed. We have God in our hearts to speak that part to us, and speak, he doesHmm. Do you understand why this is no longer necessary -meaning to speak via a bush, cloud, thunder or pillar of fire, etc?Umm, no comment
Correct.This is contradictory to your previous mention. If you truly believe Y`shua Moshiach provided full acess to the Father, how can access then be denied, sometimes.And I reiterate, one command in two parts: Love Abba, and fellow man -no other command is given.Correct enough. Yet it does not provide validity as to why now -after the work is complete, the necessity for textual emphasis, instruction concerning the things of Eternal Life.Precisely. Therefore making the bible absolutely unnecessary in every way regarding said instruction.
Unknowing, you have contradicted your statement that: Creator cannot speak to us -or rather no longer speaks to us the way he did, When in fact speaks directly to us -inwardly; no burning bush, pillar of fire, voice in the wilderness required. {All of which were external metaphors for internal realization}. And that there are times he refrains access to His fullness when in fact through the completion of the work, granted us full access to Himself again -which was and is His Will, a complete and total restoration.
Indeed, now, it is the small, still voice within, that speaks like a rushing river.
JamesMy voice is actually so soft, it oftens lulls by son & wife to sleep, peacefully. Perhaps, just perhaps my voice is like thunder, because the hearing ears are so high strung, they presume every sound is deafening... Besides, I recall many of the witnesses voices audible even to the deaf. It all depends on the hearer, now doesn't it? A whisper to one is a lightening bolt to another, right?
Now, kindly answer my loud explanations/requests, please.
James
That is assuming the dam of self is not fully constructed. Otherwise it might only be a trickle that gets through lol
This compilation of years is nonsense. Please clarify more succinctly your Georgian calendar view. The laws became of no effect after the death of Jesus Christ - which was so significant as to change our calendar. Where do you get the 600 years of silence out of the Georgian calendar? I got a reference souce here in front of me of the whole calendar. I also have in my possession discussion on the Georgian calendar, so please tell me where you get your calculations? I do wish to remind you though that after Jesus' death there was no need for direct contact OUTWARDLY (caps for emphasis) since the experience of God after the resurrection was turned INWARD as told in the Book of Acts with the HOly Spirit. But please elaborate on your calendar so I can research what you are saying.
That is what he was trying to remind Genea about. Was the inward connection to God.
My mention of the Gregorian is simply for present day accepted civil calendar. Yes, I do know the Gregorian was not in existence until the early 15th century, which is in close proximity to the first Biblical compilation late 14th century. I prefer the Hebrew Calendar myself.
Either or, my question stands -and you affirm with the emphasis -- INWARD not OUTWARD.
Therefore, being an inaccurate account, and being emphatically stated as The [Holy] Word of God, would like to know why it is deemed absolute -and absolutely required, an unambiguous necessity for instruction in eternal life?
Yes, the entire Torah -the accurate version- is a sum-substance of Moshiach, which he himself reiterated, "You study the scriptures for in them you believe you have found {the mystery, secrets} salvation, but I remind you, all those scripts refer to me."
All Law and Prophecy was completed and fulfilled concerning him and the Will of Creator.
The said New Instructions account for simply one item, defined in two parts: Agape, Abba and fellow human. Beyond this, the account called New Testament outlines the fulfillment of said Law-Prophecy, completion of the Work, Sacrificial requirement; a complete and undeniable closure of Old Coven and beginning of the New -Eternal Coven. Further, it reveals this completed Restoration {to a pre-Inception Stasis} by the event known a Resurrection, as well as fullness of that indwelling Spirit, often referenced by the event known as Pentecost. Intermixed are vague correspondences between believing Hebrews and Pauline dictations to them.
In short, the bible is not valuable for instruction concerning the things of Eternal Life.
James.
How can you ask that when you believe Gods word is written in our hearts? Do you think you can do a better job than God?
Yes the word is written in our hearts. Since we are flawed, we must check against the truth. If you hear a word from your God within, you must use something to ensure that it was God.
Remember Joan of Ark? She is just one example when someone does not listen to the God within. All those who killed in the name of God are examples of people who do not listen to the God within. My guess is they relied on the word of God via the book never using what they had within to confirm what was of God and what was not.
I don't remember Jesus, my example, ever stating that if you want to know the truth, you will find it in you. He said pray, love God, love brother, teach my commands, and some more stuff. That is where my orders come from. The God within me is in agreeance.
I agree. But not everyone is going to listen. "It is foolishness to the Greeks and a stumbling block to the Jew." And the arguments used by those two groups 2,000 years ago are still used today. Still, we must try.
God bless.You do realize that disagreement on the intent of the words only creates a stumbling block because we choose to make it a stumbling block? No one will ever agree, across the board. The beauty of that particular book is that the interpretations possible are as infinite as is the variety of life in the universe. That, in itself, may just be a miracle.
You can certainly call that your window into the mind of God, but maybe the higher plane has an infinite number of windows. Who is anyone to believe they, alone, (or their particular group) have discerned the truth that all must bow to?The words of God are plain to his children. When the mind enters the equation, the truth is far away. The words of Jesus stand forever. All who agree, Jew, Gentile and many others, have life, and light.
That's funny, because billions of people claim to be God's children. Several billion more believe in a higher power. A very small percentage of humanity refuses to entertain the possibility that there is more to the universe than what is seen. Many of these find wisdom in the Bible, but few of them agree on what they found.
Ego and/or arrogance attempts to separate one group from another. There is no evidence that a higher power appreciates this line of thinking and plenty of evidence that it is detrimental to humanity.The bible states that God's children are set apart. They think differently, along his lines. They say what he says. I understand it one way, that i cannot understand it. But i use the equipment that he gave me and accept no imitation. Many have this connection as well. They don't grapple with the unknowable to understand; they rely solely on his instructions. And when they stumble, they will not fall.You understand ? Jesus came for you. The lost. The ones walkin around looking to see the darkness. The ones who dont know that God calls and calls, but they listen to another shepherd. He came to save snd give life with a new covenant. Hes waiting for your "yes, i need you God. Teach me your ways"
Maybe, he's really waiting for you to turn from the darkness and into the light. To open your mind and your heart to all he is showing the world today. Maybe he wasn't imprisoned in that book like you appear to believe.
In the word, there is life and liberty. Not, open-mind-edness as you say, not imprisonment. The word lives forevermore. In the word, the mind works in opposition. It takes faith that God did not leave you hanging to figure out what he means when he says, come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy-laden, and i will give you rest. Another spirit (in opposition) calls out as well, even louder.
I see a great deal of opposition in your posts. Does that make me correct from a cosmic perspective? I doubt it. Does it make me more wrong than you are? I doubt it.
What you fail to realize is that, from a cosmic view point we aren't even like first graders arguing over the value of 1+1. You are attempting to create universal truth on a spiritual scale from a human perspective. It's like a fish that lives at the bottom of the ocean attempting to describe life on the space station to another fish. It is nothing more than how you imagine it to be. And imagination is fun, when kept in perspective.If you see opposition to your open minded view of God in my posts, hooray!!! I am only saying what the word of God says. You seem to be keeping an open view because all of his words just don't measure up to your standard of what makes sense. That is ok. It is your choice. But you know what Emile? ego stands in the way of the things of God. You go to each and every Christian thread that I have gone to to make your sense and you do not realize the "self"that it takes to do such a thing. I do not come to whatever thread that speaks "your" language, for personally, i could not care less what is said in open-minded discussions. My directive is to say what Jesus said. You always find me to hear/fight against it. There is a cry within you to understand the words of Jesus and they are not withheld from you. Go find out what he says, without your red marker. You will "question" no more. I see you ready to open your mind to the words of Jesus only. Cling to it. His words are still the same and he will never change. Narrow? Yes, indeed.
You sound as if you are saying I have no right to read and respond in an open forum. This type of behavior usually constitutes a virtual tantrum. If you have a problem, you need to handle that yourself.
I have no problem with the words in the Bible. I don't argue against the words in the Bible, I raise an eyebrow at your interpretation. I am sorry you refuse to see this, but it is a simple fact.
You are not a god, you have never been a god and you wil never be a god. Unless you become a Mormon, and then you will believe you will be one....which still wouldn't make it so and has nothing to do with this conversation. Sorry, not sure why that train of thought popped in.
You may not read your own posts, but I do. You contradict yourself, switch up and attempt to speak cryptically; seemingly to ensure you never agree with anyone you deem not a child of God. You do more damage to your argument than anyone else.
So, the best thing I can say is simply accept the fact that they sell Bibles at every store and the whole book can be found online. Most of us have read it and, unlike you who can't get past what someone else told you it meant, have come to our own conclusions which, whether it suits you or not, are as valid as your conclusions. The difference is, no one else thinks they are God.Emile have you not noticed that i am the only one saying, Jesus? The bible says, is usually my opening statement. All over the place, are your and most others statements with your open-mindedness and scientific facts. Science changes. God does not.
You are not the only one who has referenced Jesus. So, you are either ignoring what others say, or purposely omitting fact. And, I have never offered scientific evidence. Science cannot prove, or disprove, any thoughts on spirituality so it doesn't serve much of a purpose in the conversation.
What you think the Bible says does not have to line up with what someone else believes it says. The problem, as I see it, is that you see what you want to see and insist everyone else want to see it with you.Now, you are ignoring the conversation. Jesus did not insist anything. Neither do I. It is for us to interpret correctly asking for the knowledge of God. The difference between i and my accusers is that my comments reflect what Jesus said, and others say what the "god" in them speaks. It is in opposition.
Your words do not reflect what Jesus said. Why would you think they do?
You are interpreting it your own way. Only in your mind does it reflect what Jesus says.
I have repeated his words almost verbatim. What do you mean?
Jesus did not say that the only way to the father is in his name. That is not verbatim sorry to say.
In the passage, the first words are, Jesus said. Then he says, if you had known me, you would know who my father is. Seems like he is saying here too that it is possible to NOT know him. Lastly, aint he talkin to disciples? No one can come to the father accept through me. Oh! My mistake. Not his name. Himself, interesting.
Nothing interesting about it. It is not Jesus's name that will get you to the father. It is Jesus the spirit, the spirit that is one with the father, the spirit that dwells within. If you still don't get that, there is little I can do.
I get that. Thanks for trying your best anyway. I never realized how strong in faith I have grown to be.
Jesus is dead and one with God or not for you?
Please, explain this to me. I dont understand, the first part was startling. Slowly.
Jesus the man is dead, Jesus the spirit is one with God. When you talk about Jesus you are talking about Jesus who is one with God. Whether we mention God or Jesus it is one. So what is your point about you are the only one talking about Jesus.
Jesus is the way to the father. They are two spirits intertwined. You must believe what Jesus said to get to the father. Even when you don't understand.
You said Jesus name is the only way to the father. It is not Jesus's name but Jesus's spirit. The spirit that Jesus left when he went to his father. The spirit that dwells within
'On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you'
I say again you are not clinging to Jesus words but your own.What do you think? Now you are being vague again.
My point from the beginning is that there are two sides, good and evil. For some reason you have blurred the line between them. Jesus did not sin. Made him the perfect sacrifice.
Good and Evil are from the same place, the mind of man. There is no line to blur.
The Knowledge of Good and Evil {aka Tree #1} was already in them both, Adam and Eve. They were told not to indulge {engage, worry about} it, yet here you are reasoning good from evil, and then claiming you know what Creator desires and understand the Example, the first of many? You, yourself stated you do not know what that salt is, nor how to use {apply} it. So, you came to ask us. and we are trying to tell you, but you are still reasoning good from evil, claiming the text is that salt.
9:43 Edit:
Furthermore, you can evoke the title Jesus, Jesus until the cows come home. It isn't going to change things just because you keep saying, "And Jesus said..." What you are doing is called self hypnosis.Then you dont know the power, for there is no other name by which men can be saved.
Again with the name, thing.
Lemme get Elijah in here and see how fast your name evoking goes out the window. Call upon your god and I will call upon the one who has no name -nor can be named. And let's see who responds, fair enough? You seem to not understand the context of the text you are memorizing and calling absolute. Do you understand what and why the "no other name" implies, apart from a pseudo-ticket to heaven?
No, asking whether or not Jesus was talking to Satan in the passage below is not about good or evil. It is about being vague in your intention to converse. What has Jesus not sinning got to do with your question. What has sacrifice got to do with your question? If anyone is blurring anything can you not see it is you?
'On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you'God, the father of all, knows that some of his children will not come when called. On the day you are referring to, Jesus was dpeaking to those of his body. Not everyone in the world. Some of his children will fight him to be left behind. We have a choice, say yes or no. If we say no, he will not force us. We have free wills. We have liberty beyond belief. We are no more than puppets if he forces us to choose him. He does not stubbornly sit in you til you're ready. He waits for you to open. Then he comes into you, illuminating that stuff that falls short of what he expects to humble you and peefect you as only his word can.
Where in that passage does it say all that you have to say? Nowhere. Only in your mind.
It sounds to me like you are fighting for someone, but it aint God. And it may be becsuse of love. But you are really adamant that the words of Jesus cannot be true to the fullest extent but i assure you they are. Not all that even say that they are his, are his. The scriptures say that plainly. I am not the one off-base, i have a "SURE" thing in the words of Jesus. You get your information from within. That is where you go wrong. Jesus transmitted all we need to know a longtime ago. He broke the chains of the law imposed by the priests of that time. He showed us what unbelief looks like. He showed us how to get it right. He left us some instructions. Only the words of Jesus keep you safe. Our words are not sufficient.
Actually I was staying in line with our discussion. You go off on tangents that are unrelated to my posts. My post's that are specific in nature. Why would you do that, unless you want to avoid directly answering or commenting on what I post? How do you think I am supposed to follow what you are trying to discuss when you go off on your tangents like that? Like you have once again above. No one is fighting anything. Only you are perceiving it this way. Where have I said Jesus's words cannot be true? Do you not see how you are seeing what is not there? I do not need your assurance about Jesus because I have not said what you are claiming. You keep stating that scriptures say that plainly, yet you do not see the plain messages from scripture. Hence our discussion. You think I am wrong because I go straight to the source, yet I point out from that which you prefer as your source. I can do little about whether or not you think I am wrong. Rather than go to God you prefer going to someone else's perception of God I get that. If you cannot understand Jesus's word, which has been clear throughout our dialogue, why would you think you are safe?
I suggest you print this conversation. As has been pointed out several times, i have a good memory.
Another tangent that does not address my post?
What has been pointed out? Only you seem to know? What good is your memory if you cannot make your point?Penny, I would say, let it go.
I do apologize on the "calling her out" on the real objective behind this thread, as I kind of killed the fun of the debate. My bad (twice in one night). Am out for the evening/morning.
Ciao.No worries. I did not view calling her out as a bad thing. It made a point that no one had addressed previously. Knowing what the intention is important when entering into a discussion. If it is not to understand another's understanding and only to preach our own understanding then their is no point at all in discussing. There is value in knowing if this is the only reason the topic came into being. Perhaps it would have been better to have addressed this earlier lol
It almost caught up to the many posts the atheist threads have and none of us are atheists haha!
Goodnight!
The universal truth does not come from inside genaea, it comes from the Bible. There are points that people can disagree on, but there are points on which Christians agree no matter what denomination, and we know of them from the Bible.
I don't know if I would agree with this completely, if we are to used the bible for example...Because the bible states that the "Laws" would be written on the hearts of men...So if this is written on our hearts, wouldn't that make it come from the inside...
I am curious...the very first Christians didn't have a bible to follow...Where did their faith and knowledge come from...(Lets think about S/Paul in this case since he was the first person to write about Christ). Where did Paul's information and guidance come from...A book, a man, or did it come from the inside from him being shown by the spirit?
And if Paul can be lead by the spirit, no book or other man required, then why can't every other Christian? They should all be following the same path after all...(Straight and Narrow...sound familiar).It is from the inside. In the Old Testament, God says, "Blessed is the inward man." When Jesus spoke in parables, only those with a conscience would or could understand, like when He says (and this is paraphrased here) "When you give, don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing" means that you give from the heart without doing so so people can see you. Do not do things just to "appear" good - but be good genuinely. All his parables are of the "heart." God is not hoodwinked by pretentious shows of mercy or goodness. Many people think that if other people see that they are good and remark they are good, then that means they are good. But we know there are people who genuinely care about others and then there are those who, for glory or personal gain, exploit others. The bible is about one's spirit and deeper countenance because this is what we take with us in the world to come. IN psychology, for instance, the therapist looks beyond the facade - and so does God. But He sees even more deeply. When you come from the perspective of God, and re-read Jesus' parables, they are easier to understand. We all know, I'm sure, of someone who is jealous of someone else. Did you ever see how some people project onto others their own selves? I knew of a woman who was so jealous of another that she created in her mind the false notion that the woman she was jealous of was doing something to her, when she was not. Recognizing such emotions in oneself and purging oneself of them makes, not only a better life for the individual, but a healthier one. The Bible is a Book of Life and many of the tenets and laws in the Old Testament are conducive to happiness and health in life and can only be achieved genuinely with God. Why? Because like the jealous woman I just mentioned, there will come a time in life when emotions or situations are so overwhelming, so mind-blowing or so painful that no therapist on earth can help. But God says, "Take my yolk upon thee. My yolk is easy and my burden light." In the depths of being, even in hell of one's inner being, where other men cannot tread or understand, where forgiveness seems elusive and impossible, and where people are not up to the task because they have their own problems, God is there for the individual always, and he never fails or gives up. In the recesses of the deepest and most terrible sufferings, people often fail other people - but God fails no one.
That is the point I was making...
And as James points out on many occasions...A bible really isn't required...It wasn't required for the first Christians...They didn't have a bible to follow...The bible came along a couple hundred years after the fact...Prior to the forming of the New Testament, the only "bible" would have been what we call the Old Testament today...otherwise know as the Tanakh/Tanach...
What, in your scripture, does God speak of as his yoke (You know the thing that "connects animals as they work?) I know that the word comes from within. But, it must be allowed to enter. We don't come into the world embodying the Spirit of God. Scripture says, for by that one offering he forever made perfect those who are being made holy. It seems rather plain to me. And i know my conscience works;) treating others as i want to be treated is evidence.
The immortal, perfect humanity put itself into its own suffering, for the sake of reason.
Reason is mans affliction. Given dominion, authority, power and wisdom, man created suffering and believed in sin. And in believing sin, made himself a slave, a mortal, like the creatures created for him - to prove his dominion. He reasoned he must suffer and die, labor to have; war within and without to understand. That amnesia is what blinds him.
James.But, that Spirit -which is within him- expressly says, He will bring all things to remembrance -restore the proper wisdom. From within first, then outwardly. How can the outward things be used to perfect the inward which is perfect? They can not. For the external is a servant to the internal -a mirror reflection of what is unseen, unheard, unspoken. As it is said, "As a man thinks in his heart, he becomes; what a man says, manifests the desire of his heart." If what the perfect man in him desires is not properly spoken, because Reason blocks its way, madness results. It is that chaos, that affliction -called Reason- that makes him believe the outward can perfect that inward, because he does not see himself correctly -his reflection is distorted. Not one yod ever scribed by man has saved a man from death, nor restored him to Immortality, not even the Son of Man whom all those words point to.
Every element of creation lives in man --gold, silver, iron, bronze --and every precious stone. Forged by the purest fire, to be a reflection of all revelation -of all unseen, now seen. You marvel at the sky, the clouds and how they perspire and water the earth? Ha! Even the sweat from your finger brings life to everything it touches, even to dead things.
For this very purpose man was created: to prove the Unprovable, to know the Unknowable, to reflect the Unreflectable and give voice the Ineffable Perfection.
JamesIt is not a mystery that Jesus was outside of man. Have you ever heard Jesus as being the word, that existed (from the beginning?) you have closed an opened eye. God gave you Jesus because he knew that you were no good on your own. Eve proved that for you while you ate with her;) the words of Jesus are recognizable to the spirit. They agree. Your words are foreign. You will not hear the truth...no, you have turned your back on truth. Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus. Not the dark. Walk into the light. Jesus is the light. Your logics are no match. Remember what U were taught. You were reared that way to perfect that experience within you.
The words of Jesus brought life to a dying world. Not sweat! When you know what to do, and don't do it, not good. Jesus is the light of the world, not Jacherless, with his darkness mixed in. Onlythe words of Jesus unlock the door.
James, I like what you're saying here. Many choose their way. I used to be Buddhist but came to Christianity because "all is vanity" and I saw things that is too much to write here. But what you say here is true. The deeper you go inside yourself, then you choose whom you will serve. Humans are never honest with themselves. I agree with you in what you say; but there are times in life when we are not control, like if you are adrift at sea or imprisoned or something happens, or you made bad choices and are a drug addict or an accident happened and you feel you can't go on. Jesus Christ is the only one who cleans the slate and then strength. "Though your sins be as scarlet" one is forgiven. It is the depth of one's unconscious, the unknowable, as when Paul says he keeps doing the things he does not want to do but does not know why. No one really knows themselves deep down. Pride gets in the way of that always. But you are right with the self-reflection; one should look at themselves always and sift through the pretense of things. This is right. But one cannot save themselves. It is like Carl Jung, the psychologist says, "A man may be a minister, a good husband, etc., but then go home and exploit his wife and children and not know what he is doing." Consciousness is what we strive for, but sometimes things spring up from deep down that are inexplicable. LIke the heavens above have a dark whole, so does the inward self. At some point we surrender. At some point we need God. Christianity is a life=long process. It is not an instantaneous thing. If someone acts like they arrived and are in need of nothing, the truth is not there. God does not lie. If says He gave Himself for our sins, some like me believe that if a person finds Christ on their deathbed, they too will be saved. Some Christians do not believe this, but I do. But you are so right in how you view "taking responsibility," using your mind, which is another thing I must say before I close: the term "measure for measure" is important here. God already knows his creation. Some religions require great intelligence to be what they call an "elect" or chosen leader. Christianity is not that way. A mentally challenged person is saved through faith the same as an extremely intelligent person, and inasmuch as the Christian message is simple, so is it very very deep; the humility of God is astounding in this respect, for one of the things God says that move me the most is "My strength is made perfect in weakness." Think about what that means. YOu know what I mean? Isn't that the most beautiful thing? It's true.
If you are right, what need is there for Jesus? I mean, if everyone had a Spirit that linked to God's and the light already lights/darkens wveryone's spirit. Why did Jesus teach anything? His entire message should have been. Hello, and goodbye. Why does God send his son to speak as he did? And sit in the temple all day as he did? And be baptized? and on and on and on
Why explain what you will not to consider or believe, because what I say is not from a book; is not the flavour you prefer on popcorn?
No popcorn thanks. Speak the word to me again. And then again. And then again. You can do it. Keep speaking it, you will live.
And what word did I speak, that you ask for more?
Your words have most definitely been salted in spots. Say something from Jesus that you know well, wothout one doubt. From Jesus, not of Jesus, please?
Moshe words account for 50% of the text.
Then come the Prophets, Passions, Psalms, Wisdom, Lament, Order, Judges and Kings.
Jesus words account for 1% of the entire text.
In the same breath you say you love the words of Paul.
You are of too many minds...
And again I ask, what words did I speak, that you ask for more -three times at once?
In the Old Testament, God was worshipped extrovertedly (arc of the covenant) and the laws were given by God through Moses and the prophets to teach obediance to God. The Torah contains about 665 written laws. As the bible tells it, God did speak to Moses and the prophets on the ways that man should live according to His laws. Each time a law was broken, a lamb of sacrificed for the remission of sin. Man at this time worshipped "extrovertedly" during this time. When Jesus died on the cross, the Holy Spirit was released into the world, after which the laws became written "on the heart", and there was no longer need to sacrafice lamb for the remission of sin. It thus became that through faith in Jesus Christ brought forgiveness of sin. Christ, God and the Holy Spirit are one. Jesus Christ is the way to God. "One cannot get to the Father except through me," Jesus said, which means through faith and belief, and grace through the Holy Spirit. God wants us to lean on Him when we wrestle within our inward selves and to rely on Him. "Let go and let God! Abandon yourselves to Him," as the preacher Samuel Shoemaker put it. Bill Wilson, the founder of A.A. said, "Give up yourselves to your higher power." This does not mean that the bible is not necessary. Quite the contrary. The Word of God was made "flesh" (see John 1:1), meaning that the bible shows the progression towards unity with God. Imagine if you were God and you created man to love you. Would you feel loved by anyone who did not love you from the heart? YOu would know it right away, wouldn't you? LIke when you fall in love with someone and then one day you notice that they are "just going through the motions" of love, but you know they don't love you anymore because you can feel it. God is the same way. He created us for love to be reciprocated. And he created each us knowing what kind of person we are. But it is one thing to follow the laws (giving the outward appearance of "good" for men's eyes) and quite another to believe deeply in one's heart that God knows. Loving God then is loving The Word, because the Word is Truth and the Truth is Jesus Christ. St. Paul was called Saul before his conversion. Saul killed many Christians. Saul was a murderer. When Saul had his conversion on the road to Demascus he changed his name to Paul. If you read the bible regarding the teachings of Jesus Christ, Paul writes throughout regarding his inward experience and change, and how to deal with one's inner self. 1) Paul puts the past behind him, 2) Paul teaches about the divided man (within) and his struggle between flesh and spirit, 3) he talks about grace and how his life changed from living solely under the law to living in a personal relationship with God with one's conscience deep within, 4) he also offers condolences for guilt and what to do about it and for love. So the bible is a book that is really indispensible to knowing God. God wants us to know Him. He is spiritual and we are vessels through which he lives. It is a personal relationship that has reallly nothing to do with religion. God is God of the living and the kingdom of heaven is within. Inside the heart mind and soul of man. St. Paul describes the feeling of God within as "the flesh blood and bones" of his being. This is what Christians want. They want to feel like St. Paul and studying the bible offers not only "hope" (as in John "He that has this hope in his heart purifies himself as God is pure."), but also love. They want God to love them, but more than even that they want to feel connected to God. People fail people all the time. Today too so many things are "shallow" and "materialistic" thus meaningless. Many of us go through the day feeling lonely, some depressed, etc. We've all got our problems; but with God people find the strength to get through. Reading the bible Christians also learn that their "bodies" are not their own to take and that they belong to God as their Creator, so in great troubles and not so great troubles they cling to the hope of salvation and to a place of rest and peace with God. I am not religious but I do read the bible a lot, in fact almost every day. When I am not reading it, verses from scripture pop into my head when I am confronted with a difficult or complex situation. Those verses help me more than any; words any person could ever say. Sorry for the long response but many think Christians think they're better than everybody else but that is not true. Sure, there are some who do but real Christianity doesn't interfere with anyone's else's life. When I put it to a secularist I say: We're all like computer servers with a lot of information of who we are contained in our vessel, and when we die all that information is with God. When we see God He will know us as we truly are and we will fall on our faces before Him and we shall say "By the blood of Jesus Christ I am forgiven,"
It is written on our hearts by an external agent. What penny seems to be advocating is the idea that we are all just born with a divine nature, and that we simply need to access it. God is God, we are not.
From men and from books. The men, of course, were the Apostles who had seen and known and walked with Jesus and could teach what He taught and said. The "books" were the various OT scrolls which Jesus fulfilled prophecy from.
Paul was an Apostle chosen by Jesus Himself. He was also the last one. But his knowledge came from books and men as well as the Spirit. Yes, the Spirit nudged Paul into being a Christian, but his knowledge of the OT along with talking with Christians, including the other Apostles, was totally invaluable.
So no, we can't simply access our inate divinity. We must pray to God and read His word.I am guessing the external agent you are referring to is God? So only apostles and Jesus were privy to the spirit that disclosed God's law? And before the bible where did these teachings come from? The external agent again?
So in essence what is the point of the bible when it doesn't mean what it says? At least according to some of it's followers. We have a few followers that acknowledge the God within or the spirit within if you like.
The many different interpretations from devout followers demonstrate well how relying on the bible alone is sometimes not useful.Yes.
Anybody with access to a Bible or to the teachings therefrom is privy. But yes, there was a time when there was no Bible, and the external agent (God) did reveal directly to men (Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, etc.) They wrote down what they were told and taught it to other men.
Jesus was "privy" to the spirit that disclosed God's law in that Jesus is God, the Second Person. The Apostles walked and talked with Jesus.
It's not a question of whether the Bible means what it says, it's a question of whether the Bible says what people want it to mean.
Your last point is valid, but to substitute our own inner decision for reliance on the Bible is the wrong way to go.As long as you consider God as being outside yourself I understand why there will always be a need for the bible. It is why it is still existing today. It is limiting God when God cannot be limited. It is only in your mind God exists where you deem God to exist.
You will find the bible has different meanings to different people. Some only base their understanding on all things external. A very surface level understanding. Some see both the external and the internal and are able to understand the surface and the depth.
You can read a book to learn how to ride a bike, but you will not know how to ride a bike until you actually do it. Same with God. You can read how to get to know God but you will not know God until you experience God. When you experience God you will know God. The bible for me points to how one can experience God. Over and over.
It is sad when followers do not understand what God teaches via the bible.No. The Bible describes a God who cannot be limited. It does not limit God.
What a joke statement. The bible does in fact limit the G/god it speaks about. The fact that YOU choose or refuse to understand that is your own fault.
Why? I don't care for stupidity in motion and you know.
I know. Hence, let it go. What's the point/use.
Nothing will be learned or taught.
Why should our joy be diluted, right?
Besides, Penny and Emile promised us Apple Pie -and you know we like our apple pie
I know James.
To discredit her even more than she already is. Why else?
Untrue. Many people will learn a lot. What they learn will not be they will ever realize they will have learned. Why? Because, they are not bright enough to know that the subconscious will absorb it and use it later when possibly needed.
My joy for this day was already diluted, so I have nothing to lose.
I have never seen the term G/god in the bible, did you make that up?
Oh WOW! Did you learn that from the street? Or did your pastor teach you that?
Whoooaaa, "the dozens", i can do that well, right? The street? Now you are joking. Quit crackin funnies. You are REALLY busting my sides.
If you could do anything right, people might actually be impressed with you, but so far you've shown no understanding of your own bible.
No joke. Your actions speak louder than your words do. Too bad you haven't grown in awareness to realize it yet.
Who is being funny?
Yeah right.I apologize. I never meant to make you feel that way about me. I just asked acquestion.
Really? You asked a question? Too bad you don't answer questions and only spout out the same junk as a fanatic.
Now dem's fiiit'n words. I know i have some vaseline:) das how we do it up in nem streets. Ok, sorry this has become such a show. But,feedback. I will play nice.
Cagsil, do you want to please the father?
No, it's yours!
But then mom always did like you best...Typical religious. Blame others for their own misunderstanding. Good job Chris. You're a credit to all those who are like you.
You misunderstand something??? Well, i'll be... Please, what is the misunderstanding? I will tell you what the bible says.
You wouldn't understand, just like you don't already understand what has been explained to you in this thread.
I'm sure you would be glad to tell me what's in the bible. It's too bad you don't understand it, the time it was written, the context of the metaphors, the context of why it was manipulate, the understanding of why things were left out and anything else.
So for me to explain it to you, with your mind already indoctrinated according to the BS you've learned, I wouldn't be able to get you to see past yourself long enough to learn. Which is obvious from your actions throughout this entire thread.My actions throughout the entire thread??? You oughta be in pictures:) i have watched you get angry, use your words as weapons (remember the street?), take words out of context, be argumentative, storm out and storm back in again. No prob, Sir, i will stay with you as long as you stay with me. If you listen, you may clear up/ not be so angry. Nice does rub-off.
Yes, your actions.
Sarcasm noted.
As usual with religious, your perception is so screwed up up, you cannot even tell the difference between fantasy and reality.
Oh, no doubt. You don't know any better, just like Jesus originally said- they know not what they do. Too bad you actually fell flat on your face.
Stupidity in motion rubs-off too, to those who are egotistical, ignorant, foolish, deluded and many other words which fit the mentality of many religious folk.
Very few are actually nice.Why do you bother cagsil? She sees intelligent questions as anger, rational thought as outside of ' God's grace'. Like you said, the indoctrination prohibits her understanding of anything other than what was spoon fed.
Man, I hope that was sarcasm.
I still think it's all pointless. I've been there myself. You and I have been there together. To what end?
I have no intention of being sucked into another black hole. I am only responding to say...hi.Hi Emile. Sarcasm, yes. I felt your post, though unwarranted, was a bit sarcastic. Reason and intelligence is not the enemy; putting it all before the words of God is the problem.
I understand the black hole thing. But what else is there? We go back and forth til one gets mad and storms away. That has never been me. I can handle a bit of pressure. Jesus did it happily. I must follow.- storms away? You stil beating that dead horse?
A lie doesn't change facts. I hope you realize that. Now, watch very closely.....I'm not storming away, I simply don't think any purpose is served by conversing with you further.
Have a nice day.
Don't forget that it has been learned through this exchange that that perception must be a reflection of yourself. The proof is here. Me/ cordial; you and others/ not. You get angry because I don't agree that the bible is unnecessary junk; God lives in us all and speaks to us all listen or not; and I am sure of what I am saying. It is all because of the bible. you can have that too! Don't be angry. I sure am not. I will NOT let you and your misunderstanding be that important. I love the Lord. He shows me how. Your daggers fall, i am protected by the words of God. You must fight with them to fight with me. No contest.
I have read over, taking notes, this conversation. Though i am not done, i have seen some blatant disrespect coming from each of you. I smile. The words of God hide me. I have, on many occasions, taken myself out of the equation. But you guys KEEP throwing me back in. It is such a funny thing to watch.I don't deal with handing out my own reflection, yet again something you dismiss to suit yourself. Goes to show how dishonest in action you truly are. That's the real shame you carry.
See? One after the other. Just filth-flarn-filth. I don't see how you can see this as intelligent questions and rational thought Emile, but ... Yes I do, nevermind.
Thank you Cag. I really needed the laugh!
"You're so stupid you wouldn't understand what I say so I'm not going to tell you! No wonder you're so stupid!"
Nice circular logic there.
Love ya!
And right back at ya, loverboy!
A laughing face, by the way, is not the same as having a sense of humor...
I know this one. The men pre-bible were taught by the priests of the church. They needed to know the laws that they were instructed to write on their own hearts. Before that, a flood and some fire.
So what you are saying is that...No person can really understand or know how to be a christian, unless they are told by another human or read it in the only book available on the subject (the NT).
And Paul clearly states that his message comes straight from the Spirit leading his understanding of the OT and not from any man...You don't read the books written by Paul?
His message of Christ, of course.Love the works of Paul. He was a messenger. He had a lot of messages. Surely he had more than one message of Christ. Of which do you speak?
His over all message...He stated clearly that it was given him by the spirit of the risen Christ in the interpretation of the "Laws"(Old Testament) and that it was not given to him from any man...
Read Galatians Chapter one...Pay close attention to these verses...
Verse 1:
1 Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
And Verses 15-17:
15 But when God, who set me apart from birtha and called me by his grace, was pleased
16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man,
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.Listen closely, then read your passage again. Here we go...interpretation of what? He used what? To do what? Set him apart???!!! Bite your tongue (you mean Paul who knew Jesus personally?)!!! Emile/penny might hear you! After God was what? He did what? So that he might do what? Ya don't, FINALLY say? He spoke to God after all of the previous. Thanks! At last, the words of Jesus.
He didn't know Jesus personally...He only "met" him in spirit...after the resurrection...
That's a big turn around from I love the works of Paul...You continue to contradict yourself. If you do not like what is being presented as double scorpion has done to illustrate a point. You go off on a meaningless tangent. Simply because it does not fit with your understanding. As I have said before it is not as clear to you as you might think.
I am always intrigued by those who argue against the bible they are claiming to follow...(personal interpretation of certain passages aside of course)
Me three.
And apparently, four or five of us are semi-salty.Will you, for the love of butter, answer the bloody questions others ask, before asking more questions you could care less what the answers are?! It is one thing to deflect and another to be rude or snub another, to justify ignorance.
What? I thought i answered every question. Please? What is the first one i missed?
You know full well you have not addressed any of the questions you have no real answers for. Who do you think you are fooling?
Must be one of them looong questions, since you refuse to type it again??? I told you that I have troubles taking all of that in. I want to answer, i do!
I typed it three times -maybe four. It was one line of text.
You see contradiction where there is agreeance. Jesus said it is plain but hidden.
Like I said you are too funny!! Bite your tongue is agreeing? If you say so..
I was "helping" you. Didn't you see him say that the word said that Paul had been set apart?????
Hahaha I know which thread to come to when I need a good laugh. Thanks for the entertainment.
That is naturally me. My spiritual probably isn't that funny. However, glad to be of service to you. A merry heart does good like medicine. I thank God for good health everyday.
No, I'm not saying that. Forgive me if I wasn't clear. Of course we do need to read the only book available on the subject, the Bible (both OT and NT.) And absolutely the Spirit leads, but one of the ways He leads is through the Word, the Bible. We must read it. We must also pray to God, and listen for His voice, which comes in a myriad of ways. It's all necessary.
During my 2nd look at this conversation for a great hub, i realized that there could be many more words of Jesus. They surely may be intertwined in other texts for other sects. God as father deals with us as we are, surely another group of people needed him as well. The point is, though i don't have EVERY word Jesus spoke, i do have the ones he intended for us. I will use them. They are powerful. It is even more evident at the end of these posts days ago. Bickering is the result of angry confusion. Ive decided not to get angry about it. I understand. When you understand, what is there to argue? I will discuss, however;)
I agree. And no matter how they try to separate it is only ever done in their minds.
Oh please plain? You do not understand what all is so what is plain about it? Do you think the mind has entered into the equation if you do not understand what all is?
Disagreement on the intent of words is a poor substitute for search for true meaning.
No, there are not mulitple windows, let alone infinite.
Sorry, I know I should give you a better answer and not come across so combatively, but I'm out of time. Catch you tomorrow.
Disappearinghead, John 1:12- states "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and Word was God" and goes on to describe the arrival of John the Baptist and "the Light" being Christ. That the Word was made Flesh is in the manifestation on earth of Jesus Christ. Christianity is not a religion, it is a philosophy, and the "Church" is the faith an individual has in his or her belief of Christ as Messiah. To that end, to know this truth is an INWARD thing, not OUTWARD. The Church's doctrines, for example, although founded on St. Augustine's treatises, are not in keeping with some philosophies of Christianity. Hence, even St. Augustine purportedly laughed when he heard he would be declared a Saint. The Hebrews are God's Chosen People, and it was through their worship of laws that Christ was made manifest so as to make the law and INTERNAL thing, rather than EXTERNAL obedience. To put it in more secular terms, if the law were obeyed for the eyes of others only - and not one's own conscience or love of God - than the law is of no effect. Do you understand? God wants us to KNOW HIM and LOVE HIM. If we all simply sacrificed an animal every time we sinned, would we be inclined to ask ourselves and our unconscious minds WHY we did the sin? Of course not. By Christ's death on the cross - it is now possible for man to reconcile himself to God through his INNER vessel, his heart, his soul, and his mind, rather than EXTROVERTEDLY, which is what results when one merely lives the law. So God HAD TO PUT HIMSELF ON THE CROSS to die for our sins - so that we SEEK HIM DIRECTLY within our vessel - rather than sacrifice an animal for remission - as was the traditional practice before Christ. WE should not look only to men for the answer, but look to THE WORD, and look to those who know the inner workings of one's mind and the deeper Christianity. Let that be your Church (your own soul) which is the only thing we take with us when you die.
Genea, when I wrote "do not cast your pearls" I meant it in the way Jesus spoke. Conversion happens to the individual, not collectively, which is what I believe; and it is not easy to put into words. People who have a spiritual experience or inward change are often unable to put it into words or to convince others of what they experienced. I just wanted to clarify that because I was rushing and did not leave an explanation. Thanks for your question. God bless.
Did you notice how all the Christians have low scores on their hubs?
No, i never paid attention. But hey, if God be for you...
who can be against you? Well, as a matter of fact, I ought to be more quiet in my heart and mind about it and take solace - but I keep telling myself that if Jesus was here in the flesh and talking to me over coffee, that He would understand why I am the way I am. It's wrong, I would say - and we can't be silent anymore!
hey, actually my personal score is way above many others, and I am a Christian
To be honest, I am not sure what is meant. I mean salt did help preserve food prior to the invention of the refridgerator. So, I am guessing that salt preserves the goodness in people, until they whipe it away...unless this completely blew by me.
Jesus seemed to be pointing to our physical existence in that verse and when we lose our savour we die, then he goes on to talk about the light that we are and seems to be pointing to that as being more useful to the world. So the salt is of little value but the light is kinda thing.
It seems to me that "losing savor" is likened unto becoming just light the world as in following "others". Then further saying that if you become just like everyone else, you are no longer useful to the kingdom of God and therefore will be, in a sense, pushed aside. Then further metaphor with the light meaning your spirit or actions should shine and make a difference for all to see.
I'm no scholar. I just wanted some feedback on the interpretations of this passage. If the word says salt. I want to be saltyYes that makes sense to me. Salty sounds good!
genaea - I too understand what you mean. One of the things we all do is "follow" what others are doing. In sociology class, for example, and also psychology class, my teachers made me aware of how much we follow what others do without even being conscious of it. To be salt is to not be so persuaded by groups - or mass rioting - and the like, but to look and discern as a third eye (even God's eye) thinking on Him seeking guidance. I write a lot in my hubs - and my blog - about "collectivism". It is such an interesting topic and a debate of political philosophy for eons. However, in the spiritual life, I believe we evidence our love of God when we put our trust in Him, rather than groups or crowds. Surprisingly, doing so reveals things one may not have noticed before.
Thank you. The words you speak-type so agree with the spirit that lives within me
following the masses is not what we as children of God can do. The "world speaks/thinks differently. Salt flavors many times its weight. We are to make a difference.
- Emile Rposted 12 years ago0
I think, to understand, you have to take into account what salt meant to the ancients. I've read salt is where the word salvation came from. Salt represented immutable purity. Covenants were sealed in salt.
So, the salt of the earth probably meant to be holy. To be committed to remaining consecrated to God.
I suppose that it could be reasonably argued that the words were meant to transcend the understanding of a particular time. So, by modern interpretation, judging by our understanding of salt as the ubiquitous seasoning; maybe you guys are supposed to find the balance of seasoning that enhances our lives. Too little serves little purpose, but too much and the seasoning makes the food unpalatable.I agree, to understand, we must understand the ancient uses for salt; such as healing wounds and cleansing, preserving meat, etc. Christians are supposed to heal people (physically, emotionally, mentally); they are to disinfect wounded relationships and bring righteousness acts and deeds; they are to preserve that which is good. In short they are supposed to do and say the things Jesus did.
"Disinfect wounded relationships" good thought. I was just speaking yesterday about how God does not force loyalty. It's funny, with all that he can do to straighten us out. He allows us free will. Christians, good Christians, lose their husbands and wives because of reasons like selfishness and pride all the time. Our powers are limited by free will. Not even God interferes with it. To me, Christians can only suggest. It is up to man to try "it" and see; if they want.
Yes - but not for the view or approval of others. Very important here. There is no good anyone can do except the will of God, so when a Christian "heals" for example, it is not he that is doing it. Now, if a Christian is a physician who heals, one credits him or her with the knowledge of medicine. But if a Christian "tries" to be good, it usually means they are seeking acceptance from others. Some people are good without trying to be good, while others "keep a lid" on their emotions like a perpetual volcano. For example, if one is angry with another because they are jealous of that person, their own anger is a projection of that jealousy - and has nothing to do with anything the person actually did. One who is a Christian seeks knowledge about their own inner workings and seeks to know themselves so they are on guard always and self-examining WHY they feel the way they do. They do this because knowing thyself is to know what God wants us to be. But there NO EVIDENCE of goodness anyone can do for God - all "shows" of goodness are nothing but "filthy rags" to Him. That is because He looks on the HEART and the Christian knows this, so when the unbeliever hurts someone else they do not feel guilt about it because since they do not believe - heck - no one is watching! What the heck, right? But when a Christian does bad or evil (and we're all human!) they KNOW God sees their heart and thoughts. That is why, I believe, non-believers today (the ones of yesterday were not prejudice) hate Christians.
Love the last line:) I have witnessed "too salty" many times. So, how do we as children of God find the balance? When is enough enough?
Since I don't identify myself as a Christian, my opinion should probably be taken with a grain of salt. (no pun intended)
I would think the balance would involve ensuring that words and actions reflected both of the two commandments.Please clarify this post. I definitely identify as Christian, I want to know how to not "overdo" my witness. You do remember how we went back and forth. However, it all ended well. We speak again
clarify please.You do not need to witness or be your own witness - nor testify on your behalf.
So, what then?
Only the Spirit can testify on your behalf, as He testified on behalf of Y`shua and the others. No need to seek affirmation or boast outwardly about it -to or from Creator and man. The proof will be in the pudding -err- Fruit, which only the Spirit can bring about, and the Tree of Life that transforms.
#1. Love the Father above all things
#2. Love your fellow man as you love yourself {a given really if #1 is proactive).Jesus said to "tell it". We are spreading the words of God under a command to do so. Yes, self interferes. But speaking in other terms; the government of the people does not stop because politicians can be corrupt, and most often are. We cannot stop serving and spreading the word because some do it incorrectly. Yes God is good, always! People need to know.
What words precisely are you commanded to spread? I would like to hear this.
All or most of the words in the bible. The words of righteousness, whispered into our ears. The truth. God's truth. And EVERY word that Jesus said (he was our example). The good news of the gospel. The testimonies of how he brought us help those who are hurting, confused, scared, or lonely. We are to tell the sinner that he may be saved by God's grace and lay all of our care on his shoulders and rest;) And i got so much more. Should i continue?
Precisely. Self-testimony. Who is validating these testimonies? Certainly not Creator. Certainly there is no evidence of said Salt, said Kingdom by the "chosen believers". Y`shua's words, even according to the book CAME FROM THE FATHER, who is Creator, who is the Spirit. So, my point stands. If "every word he said" is what you assume you are required to listen to, sadly, you will be disappointed, because even the text states, the things he did and said -not enough books could be written to contain them. Which means there is lot of misinformation.
And the only thing you are to tell the supposed "sinner" is that :"salvation has come; go and sin no more" Remember? Not all the woo-woo-la-la, condemnation, hell-fire-brimstone, false prophecies, pagan/idol worship of a man and books, BeBe & CeCe -although I love their music- etc.
And precisely what do you know of Gods Grace, save the text that says it is sufficient for you and that by his grace you were saved through faith?
You cannot save anyone, when you cannot save yourself. This is the problem. Christians automatically assume they have some kind of self-righteous holy-carte blanche, when they do not. And, the simple aesthetics of feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, caring for your fellow human in times of need are a given, not a gift {which is gloated over by the ego constantly}. A parade of tasteless salt is science and sensation, says I.
Then trapping helpless folks into the doctrines. Voila! your saved because I brought you to jesus; you believed and because I helped you get a nice, hearty bowl of soup; a holy Ghost Overhaul, a Check Up from the Neck Up! Glory to God, Hallelujah! So where's that 30 pieces of silver I was planing on tithing?
They did everything you taught them, everything "by the books". They cast out those devils! Fed the hungry, clothed the naked. Made those blind unbelievers see the light! Now they're saved and blessed, right? What was Y`shua response?
Christians know less about God than the unbelieving...
James.Wow!!! You are well versed. However, I am not sure what you said aaalll that to say. It may be easier if your alternative is inserted here because I'm not sure what your angle is. The fragmented bible is where I'm getting my information. Where is your information coming from?
I'd like to know exactly what you believe! Your profile and books state you believe in spirituality- what is your definition of spirituality? that could mean many things. You say Christians know less about God than the unblelieving... hmmm so you are a non-beleiver. But you are spiritual and talk of God. What kind of sense does that make????
If you have the time, I'd be happy to explore this topic, in a different thread.I was unaware I stated believing in spirituality. If so, I need to edit my profile.Yes, did indeed. And it is quite accurate.A non-believer of what precisely?Although I loathe the term, I mention the word God because it is easier for people to follow along. The term god is directly from ba`al practices, one of the oldest sensationalist form of Theos. A completely pagan term. Interestingly, so is the term Christian.
I use the word God for that reason too. It's not easy to name that which is un-nameable but it is the closest we have in the English language. In our language it is 'Io Matua Kore'. That which is without beginning or end or the parentless. The European scholars who had Christian inclinations decided it was God.
Lol. Very briefly. Io Matua Kore is the substance of all things in it's purest form. It has no beginning or end, it is both non being and being. It is both nothing and everything. It is both negative and positive. It cannot be described or else it becomes something else entirely.(meaning not in it's purest form) A way of visualizing it might be the pregnant void.. Yet another way of visualizing it is as an eternal womb.
It's meaning is very close if not the same as the Tao that cannot be spoken.
I don't think you need to remove a belief in spirituality from your list - in itself it is just a recognition of metaphysics, and everything we don't understand is out there, even if we invent things to be out there and use them as symbols or representations etc they still appear to be necessary for progress and humanity.
I try not to use the word god either, once said it exists as a 'thing' and so we get the tired old twaddle of being a not-believer in a thing, rather than it just being 'not'.
I do remember. We did get a little tiffy.
I may not explain this well, but I think a lot of times the evangelical zeal for God upsets the intended balance. Because to love God was only half of what was said to fulfill all the laws of the prophets. I don't know how you find the balance because so many Christian teachings lead you to believe you don't need to. But, I think that is a great tragedy. Jesus gave his life in service to mankind. He showed the perfect balance and those who have been shining spiritual examples in our time are those who reflect that perfect balance.Evangelical zeal for God upsets intended balance?Not sure what this means. I want to understand what the "turn-off" is.
The turn off is the evangelical zeal shows a lack of understanding of the words and deeds of Jesus. It takes the messages and repackages it so that the evangelical is a mirror image of the religion that Jesus' ministry spoke against. It is people putting themselves on pedestals, playacting, and hoping they can snooker God and man into thinking they are better than they know, deep down, they are. It comes off as hypocritical and fools no one on this plane of existence. I can't speak for any other.
Are you saying that simply being excited (zealous) is a turn - off? Or the hypocrisy of many Christians??? It is not fair to a person to make such an assessment. It hurts the one turned off. But if one is turned off purposely or with mal intent, woe to him who causes loss of soul.
I think that the major deficit in the communication between those that believe and those who are not sure is the use of biblical scripture. Jesus heavily relied on real-world examples to convey God's message. Those who are of the world (think like everybody else/ have no savor) do not understand the deep things of God. What do you say? God's message is necessary (i think you know;) men mess it up with their own bullstuffs;) but that is no reason to chuck it ALL out the window.Well, like I said..you should take what I say with a grain of salt. But, the evangelical argument that only they understand scripture and only they have the ability to know the deep things of God doesn't fool anyone either. It's one of the many turn offs.
See...? It's not a mystical thing. God provides everyone with knowledge of him if one only asks from a sincere heart. Problem comes in when one attempts to discredit the words of the bible. A lot of it does not "reason" out. We were not there when it all "went down" we must have faith (you know I hate to open that can again;) but you first have to determine to believe it first. You can't receive from God when you have the "answers" already.
Yes, hypocrisy and selfishness and pride sneak in, God's children are human too. But they are still wrong when they allow self to crowd out the message. Christians are not "better" than the rest of God's creations. They just think differently. God tells his choldren that they cannot DO anything to deserve his goodness. It is not doing better. It is thinking differently. With a mind geared toward pleasing God. And when we err, and we do err; we can go to God for mercy and correction.But, geneaa that is part of the problem. You think you go to God for mercy and correction, but there is no mercy in the evangelical shtick. That is a primary problem. You guys think you go to God and get forgiven. You don't attempt to resolve your differences with others. You don't think you have to, even when you know your actions against them are wrong, because you can confess and believe yourself granted absolution.
That is not putting the needs of others on the same level as you put your own. If you need forgiveness and compassion...and you think you get it from God...you should find a way to ensure others receive it to. Especially the non believer. Love what is above and what is right beside you. I simply think spiritual people are a conduit from a higher plane. If love doesn't flow through you, you have to determine where the log jam is. We all have to find the log jam in ourselves. Not others.Well now you are blanketing the Christian. THAT is the problem. We are all walking a path to get to the same place, but we experience different things along the way. We feel different emotions. Have different thought patterns. God deals with us all as we are. We dont really have to worry about somebody else's relationship with God because we will only answer for ourselves.
No, not all Christians are God's children. He knows who is; that is what matters.I'm in need of that bangs head against wall emoticon. All of humanity would be classified as God's children. Until you see that as the starting point you won't follow my line of reasoning.
In a sense, we are all created in his image. However, the bible (the word we are to adhere to) states that not everyone that cries Lord, Lord is his. Most of us have turned away from him, which removes us ourselves from "children" status. Don't bang your head just yet, this part is simple.
No, that makes no sense. One does not disown their children. One never stops loving them. And you can't turn your back on something you don't know. If someone has valid reason not to believe, whose fault is that? The idea that you wouldn't be of equal value because nothing that constituted proof was ever presented is ludicrous.
I said we remove ourselves from children status when we turn away. God never leaves. He is available to all. The bible (my method) says that there are those who are NOT God's children. He created and loves all of us.
Who can come up with a valid reason to not believe God? Now, who is the judge on validity? I just read in a hub that God knows best. I believe that. Once I've questioned HIM and receive my answer, how do I then say, "God you don't make sense?" how do I tell him to redo his plan because I just don't understand?" We need to approach God as children (bible again). Remember being 7? Did you make the rules at home? Did you understand them all?I cannot imagine a creator expecting people to be idiots. Turning a blind eye to reality in order to show their love. Again, it falls into the category of ludicrous.
What constitutes proof for you may work for you. Do you think every idea of proof is true? Because there are some outlandish Christian beliefs floating around these forums. If they say God said, do you believe them? Should I believe them? If not, why not? They are just as adamant as you are.
You guys not only don't get it. The powers that be in your faiths have made sure you never will. You aren't supposed to question the logic? You should conduct yourself like a seven year old?
Unfortunately, you can't gain converts with that argument. Not when speaking to an adult. I doubt that line from the Bible means what you think it means.As children, we need help to live. As adults, believe it or not, we need help to live. Not idiots, we take his instrction and use it to our beet ability. He knows our limitations, he is our father. You need to know that you need him. How do you find him before your very breif life is over? Ask, and it shall be given. But you must take it. When my mom gave me penicilin on a spoon, i did not say, "Hold it lady,,now explain!" she took care of me. I knew that she was the boss. God's children understand that we are too finite to take in all the info. We need a hiding place. Even when we have all the info, we may not know what to do with it. We MUST rely on someone. I choose the spirit of God through his interaction with me and his word, the bible. Keep your ancient articles, he lives in me.
Well, I believe the divine dwells in all things. You don't have special rights just because you choose to claim such.
No "special" rights, in that it is available to all. Special, nonetheless because it comes from the one who can and does take it all in. Peace, for one, because you know because of the spirit within you that affirms that you belong to him, that you are safe. It is a great feeling. Again, available to all.
For the record, we all have the ability to obtain mercy. God expects us to treat eachother well. He does not want your sacrifice if you have a problem with our brother. He admonishes us to straighten out our situation withour brother first. No, we don't always get it. But that is why a personal relationship with him is necessary. The spirit corrects you along with forgiveness. If you accept correction, you remain in good standing. If you dont you may have to repeat the lesson. God is in control and he decides what we need and he supplies.
Also, the bible itself states that there are things of God that only a select few will grasp. Not everyone can understand all of the mysteries of God's kingdom. It's not something that we made up to appear more wise or better.
Most of us don't understand it all. That doesn't condemn you though.
Who does understand the mysteries? So many think they do and wear it like a medal or use it to proudly differentiate themselves from others.
That act is rooted in pride and God has none of that!!! God's people are meek, and humble. We brag on God alone. All we can do is be used. No pride necessary. God's people know that all their good "works" mean nothing without God. He and he alone gets the glory. Pride is not a Godly emotion; unless of course it is pointed at the father.
Furthermore, a deeper seeking/understanding of the knowledge of God differentiates one from others alone because not too many people care to understand. They get a little and run forth with odd interpretations. "Bring God your tithes and offerings!" one word, often superficially understood, brings about greed (another no-no).
Gen,
This is the problem with all Theos, sensation or equation. Titles and Entitlement, like "I got a word" or "God gave me $1MM" or "I discovered electricity" or "We cured cancer". 100% ego on both sides. Christianity does not have any title or entitlement as the Salt of The Earth. That is a fallacy/a false doctrine. This message was told long before Christianity was invented. Spirit is not -repeat not- concerned with aesthetics, but rather concerned with creation and interaction - the experience of Life.
The "spice of life" is the most valuable commodity, just as salt was once the most valuable commodity, for nearly 2300 years.
Salt is one of those things that heightens existing flavors. Key word there is existing. Like electricity, that already existed, man didn't invent it, but heightened its use. Man did not create love or life, but heightens it by the flavor enhancement. Another word is seasoning. Soak fish or meat in salt, they are preserved for a season. Just as 99% of all medicines are salt based, to preserve potency.
If someone over salts their food, it becomes inedible. This is called doctrine, boastful works, etc. If the salt losses its ability to flavor, it becomes useless and gets tossed out with the rest of the trash, to be recycled by nature as compost. This simply means that person has no genuine inspiration, is not following the rule of love and will eventually wither away, be absorbed by the things around them, until they seize to be. Salt is also a corrosive, like acid. Too much can kill a person, too little and they dehydrate.
I am gathering these Social Network folks are just that, typical fakers, tasteless grains, no flavor. I know this is pushing the "button" but, fact is, 99.9% of Christians are just that, fakers.
James.Yes, the old deflection: "Allah hu akbar" {translated: God is Great}. Which seems to be the norm of Christians who cannot be truthful. Always fallback and parrot the quotes.You know what is extremely humorous about that, ONLY Christians are claiming they are the Salt of the Earth. Why is that? Entitlement by Rights of Ego. Yes indeed. No one else is comparing them. In fact, just the complete opposite. Explain how a child of 5, having no understanding of Christianity, its extremes, can easily prove what the SOTE is, without blinking. Yet, an adult continuously needs doctrine and affirmation to prove or disprove, else lay claim to being the only ones allowed/entitled to have it (when they actually do not have it) simply because they crow they believe or have "jesus in their hearts" or a "personal relationship with jesus" when in fact they have no clue who he is or who Creator is. What they have is fluffed up pillows called chapter-verse; hypnotic suggestions from the pulpit and egos the size of cathedrals.Salt and Sugar are two entirely different things. So, how can it be compared. Sure, both are flavorings, but try preserving beef in sugar, or making cotton candy from a salt block. But, I do like the culinary angle here. Sigh, I do miss the kitchen and all those cool things one can do with food stuffs.
James
Jesus spoke this scripture in Matthew. He was Christ, so i guess Christianity had not developed, he was still here, speaking to us, directions. He admonished his followers to be as salt. False doctrine???
Correct, true followers.
Sadly, Christ and Christianity are two totally different things.
So, yes, false doctrine.
Neither Christianity nor Christians have the right to claim they are the SOTE. I highly recommend Christians reread the passage and understand what he is talking about.
Christianity was born out of paganism, with the Cross as the focal point.
Everything Y`shua Moshiach taught has been corrupted and twisted by the corrupt and twisted ego of man, for the sake of self preservation and power in the form of religion -be it religion of sensation or religion of science.
James.I don't really get it. Christ taught us, Christians, how to live. If we follow his example, we are all false??? I know that many "Christians" are not really Christ-like at all. Is that what you mean? If so, I still believe the words. What is the "truth" as you see it?
Again, I see the enforcement of Title and Entitlement (i.e. "us, Christians"). You say he taught/teaches you, yes? But he says the Spirit is supposed to teach you -that is Creator, the Abba. Furthermore, name one Christian who is actually following his example, versus leaning on the words in books, the words from preachers or his work itself. Name me one that does not steal his testimony, as if it was their own -as if they have some secretive membership or entitlement to those things, that qualifies them to say they have this or that or know this or that about Creator. Like some kind of wall Christians run into and can never get passed, so the just keep evoking the same thing over and over, to deflect from that fact. And, sadly yes, it is a fact.
If they truly are/were the SOTE, everything they touched, every person they met, every vibration from their very lips would be enhancing the fullness of Life in everyone and everything, just like salt heightens the flavor of everything nearly triple its original. Salt heightens flavors hidden below the surface, enriches the soil for planting even more harvests of Life. just like Y`shua did. Just like theose after the Breath reentered in full power. This is what he taught, what he did and what he asked everyone -not "Christians"- but everyone to do, say, be. He did not ask them to tell the world how cool he was, but that they had received salvation and to engage it fully. Look at the 2000 years of this thing called Christianity and show me any proof of that salt. It is not there. Why? Christianity, like Islam, Buddhism, Socialism, Economics, etc should not exist. They are all constructs of human ego.
Now that is an interesting question, Genaea. But this is not the thread for that.
JamesThis may be exactly the thread for your beliefs. How can you tell me that I am "off" without then providing a viable alternative?
Also, the words of the bible are real to me, maybe to you, since you know a bit about it. So, then you should be aware that the bible is a set of instruction/principles for the Christian believer. It cannot be applied if you don't believe it's contents. All of them. Also, being for the believer, the believer is entitled to all of the promises contained therein, meant for him/ her. Love, joy, peace, etc., are all things that God intends for his children. We are entitled to those gifts as his children because the bible (a set of instruction/principle for the one who believes) says so.
Finally, show you proof of salt over the oast 2000 years??? Surely, you jest:)Hmm, okay, a spark of free thinking here. I like it.
A bit? Em, sure, you could say that, as I am certified in it from Rhema and ministered to both mega church and Wildwoods type places for quite some.That is completely false. There was never a desire by Creator, nor Y`shua, to compile any book or self-instruction guide to being a "good believer". And this IS by far the ultimate problem. Same as science using their books as instruction manuals for being "good scientists", whilst both destroy creation in the name of their respective belief systems/religions.
Watch carefully: the entire purpose of your existence, the law, prophets, the Work and coming of the Spirit, was to restore everything previously undone by one man -Adam. The Spirit within, translated ruach or Breath of Life/Power of Creator, is to be the only instructor Why? Because only the Creator can lead you into all Truth, from Aleph to Tov. Therefore the contents of a book -or series of books and correspondences {letters} primarily by one person, Saul, cannot be dubbed the instructions for Walking In Spirit. And although I dislike doing this: I quote, "And those who love and worship Creator, who keep his commands MUST Walk In Spirit and in Truth". As a result of a bleeding lack of understanding, and pure laziness really, coupled with selfishness and paganism, the religion know as Christianity was solidified. In the mid 14th century, when the first bible ever was compiled, the people who did so, had far greater ill intentions that you or I can imagine. An intent to restore the Romulus-Remus empire. Adding in doctrines about demons, and so on. They altered the translations, adding and leaving things out from the documents they possessed. So, the contents are not relevant regarding the "all Truth". nor can they be used to apply a full and real sense of practical faith. Instead they produce pseudoscience, pseudo-faith. Again, not entirely correct. You are aware the Hebrews believed the same regarding their promises -99% of which Christians think are theirs as well?! Are you aware the Old Coven is no longer in effect, nor the materialistic aspects given to those nations who came out of Abram? The promises -which existed in Adam- have been restored. However, no "Christian" is entitled to them any more than a Hebrew, Muslim, Atheist, Scientist or Sadhu, just because they "believe" or evoke the text as chapter-verse. To receive any and all promises, one must walk in Spirit. Why? Because all the promises point to and are apart of Eternal Life, manifested in each person who walks so. Maybe not proof of 2000 years, one full day would suffice.
Interestingly, I expected to have this conversation with another Hubber, which -thank goodness- did not happen. {wipes brow}Ok, so my bible is not the one for you. Too altered. Do you have the original text? Is it available on ebay? Because I am sure that since God wanted everyone to know the truth, he would not hide it in a vault or crypt. Please tell me where you have found the truth. You seem to have lost your first love, you said you taught GOD's word before?
Actually I owned nearly 15 different translations, at one point, including the Arabic {thanks mom}, Greek and Hebrew translations, and a stack of highlighters to boot!Actually, there is no "original" version. There never was. The texts they put together -apart from Torah- were found years earlier. Recently, even more letters and "gospels/testimonies" have been discovered.Exactly!On the contrary, I never lost Him nor was I really lost either, just suffering from the same amnesia everyone else has/had -same thing Adam went through. And yes, for nearly twenty years or more ministered the book, chapter and verse, did the laying on of hands, even taught demonology and the whole smiling-preacher, soft-music, solemn altar calls, baptisms, salvation ovation -the works. Which brings us now to your question:Simply put, I gave myself a time out. I reflected on everything I had ever done or said -didn't do, didn't say; scrolled through all the countless memorized texts and came to a point of exhaustion. I asked myself a simple question, "Why would the Creator of the universe need a mediator -a book- to communicate, instruct His most finest, most awesome, most powerful, most glorified and most beautiful creation -a human being, me?" I didn't really have to wait long for that answer. It came rushing in like the Red Sea over Pharaoh Ramses II. "The word is in you, both to hear it and do it." To back it up, "I write my word on their hearts." When the author of John said the word became flesh, what he meant was the ruach -the life force, the breath of Creator. That EXACT statement was first said when He created humans. "And breathed into them the Word, the Breath of Life, the Ruach." To further back this up, I recalled, "And if that same Spirit that raised Y`shua from the grave dwells in you..." That same Spirit is the Father, is Creator, is the Breathe of Life. And even more "...there was no temple in the city, for He is the temple, his glory is the Light." In short everyone of us is the word of God. I had read these things before, but the impact was just mind blowing. I was beside myself. Literally, out of my mind at that very moment. It was as though that veil, that iron curtain, that temple curtain was finally torn in two pieces, opening access to what I was born to understand.
So, I got one-on-one with my Abba to see if he was really there. Sure, I was told he was, read he was, even taught he was and would go so far as to say I felt he was -but I was lying, to myself. I had literally deceived my own heart, using every human resource at my disposal, to manifest everything I thought was Truth. Quite a complex situation & system. One that kept the carrot in front of me, but never let me eat it -like billions of my fellow humans. The real satan, adversary, accuser wasn't some non-existent entity and his 33% now wingless henchmen. No sir, it was my own ha-satan -my mind. Like Adam, I was living in my own deception, a slave to my thoughts, to the Knowledge of Sin {also known as good-evil, right-wrong, duality, choice}. I bit into it with eyes wide open, excited like a child on Christmas morning. For years it controlled me, ever action reaction, everything. Long story short, I proceeded to close the books, toss out the accessories and start fresh. Just getting alone with Creator -not for a few minutes a day, or even a whole day. But a lot -as often as possible. No aesthetics, no quotes, no texts, nothing but Him and I. The result has been exactly what He said. And every day, I go further out of my mind {chuckles} and into the spirit. It is taking some time to undo what I did to myself -and man, what i did to myself {shakes head}... But it is inevitable that I be transformed into that image He said I would be, the image Adam was when he was created, the image Y`shua is as the firstborn among many. Literally passing -like the Passover and the Promise- from death to Eternal Life -body, brain and spirit. Restoring the Kingdom within, the Ruach, the Spirit of Creator -that Seed of Life itself.
It isn't pseudo based, book based, whatever. It is based on full and unconditional practical faith. Do I still struggle with my mind for control? Of course. I kind of understand why Adam responded the way he did after he ate of it. lol. I too was stoned on information overload. And kept cramming it in, like it there was no tomorrow. How could I not? It tasted so good. Had to be the best thing I ever tasted. And I couldn't get enough. I could -so I thought- manipulate my thoughts at will, when in fact, it was my thoughts manipulating me. I was literally addicted to myself, to my own thoughts -as beautiful as those billions of light frequencies are. My thoughts parading like an angel of light. I was illuminated higher than a cocaine addict. Higher than high, beyond transcending, beyond yogi-jinn, beyond enlightened. I was thoroughly stoned to the point of, "duh."
I know already what is going to happen. I knew it when I was created. We all know it. Just like Adam knew every animal and then named them for good measure, just like he knew the Tree of Life stood right next to the Tree of Knowledge. The difference, I suppose, is I have accepted my mistake of rejecting the real salvation -the real good news- for the sake of self indulgence/ for knowledge -even what I believed was the Knowledge of God, yes. But more importantly, I have actually accepted the Gift of Restoration. I suppose, when a person gets to that place, the Eye of the Needle, the Pinnacle of the Temple, its either they go in or just stare through the keyhole, at what's going on behind the door, and enjoy the entertainment...
James.
Edit: This is really interesting, second time in the last day I am opening up like this to folks here.Oops sorry jumped ahead. Should have read all the replies. Did not realize you had already answered her post. Carry on..
I love your story. It sounds somewhat similar to mine.
I was raised in the Blacks' Baptist church. They churched me often from birth til about 20. At that time, rebellion seemed best. I had a ball. But i was empty. As i sought God for the next 15 years, i was brought to a halt. I fell out with my best friend; my boyfriend was incarcerated, my life came to a halt. Oh, and I had a new baby. I spent that year in sporitual bliss. There was no activity but pouring over the pages of the only "real" truth in my eyes. I needed the truth. But I knew that i could not use my own understanding. I acknowledged that I needed God's power to reveal the truth. I had heard so many baldfaced lies in the many, many, many churches that I had attended. The Lord took the entire year to show me that I had been fed untruths. Another thing is, there is only one truth and the spirit of God works under that. You cannot search other works to find God. There is one God. One truth. And our power??? Like Gods??? Lean not unto thy own understandin, but in all thy ways...u know the rest. When we no longer have our savor we are tossed aside. Reprobate???Gen, if nothing I wrote is worth while, worth in depth reading, rereading, consider this one thing: How do you know what the Knowledge of God really is, beyond the book, beyond what you assume is Gods Work, the revealed truth. That is the point of the sword, that pierces and divides asunder.
James.I read every word. I heard the part about the different translations of the bible and then chucking it out the window because you realized that you had the word in you, no, you are the word. Then your frenzied search for the truth in "other" stuff? Hmmm... Then God's word is you so why do you need to preach, or hear, or be sent? You are already here. Right? I know you hear it. He loves you so. I havent been to church in years. But this one thing I do...
That's what I understood jacharless to mean. No it is not hidden in a vault or crypt nor is God in words of the bible. It is within the spirit that dwells within you.
Thanks. So how do we know that the spirit within us is of God??? There are MANY spirits available.
There is ONLY ONE Spirit available. To know one has that same spirit in them, is be consumed by the power of Creator, dripping with His glory. A free-flowing, unified umbilical cord of Life.
Sidebar: there are no such things a demons -aka fallen angelic beings -aka familiar spirits. "Familiar spirits and doctrines about demons" as Saul said, are just false concepts. Demonology entered Christianity, officially, around the exact time the first canonical text was compiled. These are items added, again, from pagan beliefs with the RRE. Torah which accounts for 95% of the text, never mentions any such spirits or entities, nor a Satan/Lucifer. An unclean spirit in Hebrew means a persons mind or a persons heart are not pure, correct. In the Greek, the term dæmon is a pagan word for good spirit or good heart. In the Anglo translation, the ea {æ} was dropped and replaced with just the "e" -from where the term demon comes.
James.There is no such thing as demons??? Jesus cast out spinach???
lol. you're fun, I like you.
He did not cast out a legion of demons out of the man.
A legion is a Roman numeral for what modern warfare calls a garrison.
A total of 6000 men is equal to a legion.
Do you honestly think 6000 of these "demons" can exist in a person?
The man, if you note, saw him coming. His normal routine was to hide behind graves stones, jump out and scare the bjingas out of passers by, talking to himself, etc. He was mentally ill, not possessed. If it could be described as any mental sickness, it would be schizophrenia or MPD. The issue with going into the pigs and they diving off the beach cliff puzzled me. Kevin (DisappearingHead) explained it best.
Find if you can, anywhere in Torah {which is 95% of the compiled text} where demons are mentioned, where angels fell out of service to Creator -and ministering to humans- to become humanities greatest enemy. Yes, the term lucem ferre {what others call an entity Lucifer} is mentioned only ONCE in the ENTIRE text from Genesis to Revelation. Just wondering, have you really investigated anything you read or were taught to automatically accept because it was spoken by a minister or written in ink?
James.Thanks, I like you too. My thing now is, demons were mentioned. Called false because they desguise as deity and there is only one God. I use the term because it is nationally understood. I have never said God, and been asked, which one? So it is easier than Jehovah, Allah, and whomever you said. No questions;) yes, I saw mental illness too there but does it really matter how many demons there were. This "arguing over words" is what causes the junk. Demons exist. They are all over the TV!!! Laughing hard.
There is no mention of such entities according to Judaism for its entire 6000 year existence. Yet, undeniably, when the bible was created, 600 years ago, wham! demons everywhere. American demonology was heightened 85 years ago, during the Great Depression -Church "Revival" {1920's-30's} by the likes of Smith Wigglesworth, John G Lake, Amie Simple McPhearson and then by Jack Van Impe, Frank Lester Sumrall, etc.
Again, unclean spirit = daemon; in the Latin demon. An unclean spirit is not an evil entity causing havoc on humans -Gods most powerful creation!!! So, please think outside the book for a change. I already stepped out of the box, and so glad I did. He saved me just in time.
As for seeking, you are doing what people like me taught you: seeking in the bible and then proclaiming you found it. Sadly, am ashamed of my past, regarding this. Creator is not in the bible. He doesn't need to give you a word, and you run to the bible passages to learn his mysteries. Why? Because you are his words. The entire universe is His words.
The reason you do not know you have the Spirit, which IS the fullness of Creator, and needed to ask that question is because you don't have it. You haven't taken the time-out yet and got alone with Creator {the real praise worship session}. Heck, took Moses, Elijah, Y`shua and the apostles afterward 40 days & nights, of nonstop fasting & prayer, to receive the fullness. Like the rest you run to the book and worship IT and NOT the Living One. Look and be honest. How much time do you spend alone listening to Creator -no books, no talking, no nothing- just one on one. Now, measure that against how much time you spend searching the bible for answers, secrets, mysteries else listening to the preachers or trying to save those poor "sinners". Make a journal of it for an entire month and see exactly what the results is. Then ask this question: why all those folks going way back to Adam not have bibles or Torahs.
James.Ok, to step outside of the book, is a no- no. To that, i must say, get behind me. The pages make sense. When they don't, i pray. Not only then. I have a constant open line to my father. I consult with him on just about all my waking decisions. I acknowledge him in everything and he directs me. Please dont take this to mean that i have a halo and wings. I am still being forgiven much! But that is why i love so. As for the time i spend now with the pages? Uh... However, his word i have hidden in my heart that i might not sin. Honestly, i still do. I still need him for i know the truth.
If you no longer believe the bible, and you have found better. Please continue in your way, we no longer have a major commonality. If you want more of what I have, please stay. But you know that i was taught to "guard my heart" and staunch I am;) you have blessed me so.Now, you are regressing into dishonesty. That upsets me. No where does the text say . Because for nearly 1400 years after the Events, no one had a Bible or Torah. And for 4700 years before the events, no one had a Torah. Yet, Creator was int he midst of them, even as Moshe handed them the stone tablets -twice.
Think and be truthful. Creator did not create you with such a magnificent brain, completely full of HIS WORD and wisdom : what man calls reason, only to reprogram you with words in books?! Sure, it hits hard imagining you have spend all this time reading and getting false revelation from sporadic passages in books, in sporadic intervals. And its okay to be wrong. PS, I never said I no longer believe what is in the bible, I did say the bible is NOT to be worshiped, as every believer I know does. They spend more time in the bible, or boasting, or saving folks than they do with Creator who did all those events over thousands of years to restore them to that one-on-one relationship.
The ENTIRE message, mystery, revelation, heart knowledge of e v e r y t h i n g written in there is to get you restored to precisely how Adam was before he indulged his mind. So, now you know the whole thing. No more need for the books, etc. All He ever wanted from humans was to walk with Him. To show His ideas to them, first hand -no go between- and let them be apart of it, to enjoy them, to create as well- plus things beyond our presently limited imagination. The only way that can happen is by going one-on-one with him, nothing in the way. Losing your life as you perceive it should be, for the Life that you were meant to be.
So, in kind, should you want what I have -actually what He has for you, not me- please let's continue. Even more, let's begin a specific thread to discuss whatever it is you want to know. Either or, we still have a commonality, it is just lacking textual augmentation.
JamesActually, I don't have any questions for you. The book is not worshipped. The words. Just think, the tablets were for "written" documentation of the words that he wants us to remember. All those years ago, the Lord spent a lot of time speaking through manna, and seas parting. Burning bushes. The priests who had direct contact. Jesus built a bridge to the father for each of us. The priests went crazy with power and started adding stuff. But still...there is ONLY one truth. It is documented for ALL to see. ALL have access. Only a few will walk the very narrow path.
I know the words of the bible warn against dabbling in other doctrines. It took Solomon down a bad path. One of the most knowledgeable; into one without. I am not being dishonest when i say stepping outside of the only words I believe to be God's is a no-no. It will make one "lukewarm"Are you positive of that. Check again.Incorrect. He already said he had written those laws on our hearts from the foundation of the world. And those tablets -first set were shattered on the back on a idol, the second set sealed -forever- in the arc of the covenant, along with the manna, the staff of the serpent Moshe carried. Sealed forever, and on top, the Seat of Mercy/Grace, where the Presence rested.How do you know who will and will not walk the path?
The only words that you believe. So yes, 100% dishonesty applies. That is pure ego on your part. Sorry to sound harsh. So, I guess you are exactly like the salt-less ones you started this topic about and probably angry at them because it hit home...
"With their mouths they worship me, but their hearts are far away."Wow!!! I thought this would go differently. Ok, here we go. First, God wrote the laws in our hearts, yes? So why the need for tablets??? Secondly, God knows who his children are. We only get a portion of the big picture. God knows best. Next, we all must choose something. I say "I believe" because i cannot speak for what you believe. You call that dishonest??? I follow what i believe the truth to be. I believe the words of the bible. Lastly, SALTLESS??? I am so sorry that staunch does not mean what I thought, in your eyes. I felt complimented;) however, say what you may. My point is there is only one truth!!! Narrow? God I hope so.
Some people never had the tools to access what is written in their hearts. Even now that is so. The tablets would have been useful to some. What is the one truth in your opinion?
The bible is the word of God. We are to live according to how it (and it only) says. There is one God.
So are you saying the truth is there is only one God? If you are then I agree and I would also add that there are many perceptions of the one God.
I have a question...I am curious...
If there is only one God...Then why is there a need to have a commandmant that says, "thou shall have no other Gods before me"?
Or is it more of... there is only one "true" God...Right, one "true" God. We as people worship all kinds of stuff. Our kids, our cars, our jobs, our money (especially our money) our degrees and on and on.
If there are more than one God..How can we be sure which one is actually the true God...How can we be sure exactly which God is being talked about in the bible...It could be just that the Jews had a different name for the same God that the Romans, Egyptians and other cultures beside the Jews...
That is a great question. However, im a little stumped for some reason. Well, the bible that i read says that the spirit that lives within you will provide witness to the truth. But, we are flawed as humans. How do we know Our God from any other? I believe that it comes from his word, the bible AND the holy spirit within you that is given when you ask from a sincere heart. The words of the bible and your spirit agree. That is why I believe we have a bible. We are flawed. We need a confirmation that OUR spirit truly does line up with the truth. It is available to all. Yet some miss it because it seems too hard, or too easy. We must come to God with a wlling heart. We must be willing to listen to what he says. We cannot have it figured out already because then, we find ourselves arguing with him about his plan. We must come as children. I said that yesterday and had to explain. Do you understand coming to him as children?
I understand the coming to him as children completely....
And I'll not say anymore than that...as we probably wouldn't agree and it doesn't need to be said...How do we know God from another's? If we look for similarities rather than differences we might actually start getting it. Better still get our thinking out of the way and all or part thereof will be revealed. Relying on belief is not the same as relying on experience. Listen to that which is within, without all that we have be taught has more value and more correctness than any thing spoken or written about.
I have experienced God since I was little. I know from experience that the words that i speak are true. I am not trying to FORCE anyone to see it my way. I have my own relationship with the father. I may only suggest that you or anyone else take time to see what I've seen.
I am no special deal. God is!Where did I say you are trying to force what you see on anyone? Nor did I say that you didn't experience God. Your relationship is just so. Everyone's relationship with God is different. If you are from a big family you will understand that your siblings relationship to your parents is different to yours. Just as it is with God. No two relationships are the same. You believe that there is one way to know God and that the bible shows you how. The bible has many interpretations, and many have offered their own view. Does that make yours wrong and theirs wrong or vice versa. No. All that says is there are many perceptions of God.
There is only one correct perception of God. He is everything. His word stands til the end of the earth. I mean it like this: the sky is blue. If i am color-blind and i call it pink am i right? But it looks pink to me. Am i right? The Lord is the same now and forever. He does not adapt to our ways. There is one opening to the gate and only a few find it.
There is no one I know alive that correctly perceives the infinite. Because God is infinite. How then does one claim to know all that there is to know about what is infinite? Infinite is man's way of describing what is unknown. So how can there be a correct perception of God? What words are you talking about? Words are man's invention to express themselves. Where is the gate do you think?
The gate is the way to the father and us bible readers know who represents gate, right? "No one comes to the father but by me" and that is Jesus.
So where is the father or Jesus in your opinion?
I agree so there is no knocking. It is awakening or being aware.
Now the bible says, "Behold, i stand at the door and knock, if any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come in and eat with him" You say what???
Do you mean a literal door or not? If it is literal where is the door? You said God is everywhere to which I agreed. But where is the door God knocks on. Everywhere or no? Where shall God eat with us when we find that door?
The door of your heart. Your inner man is EMPTY without God. When you find the door of your heart and let him in, he comes into your heart to figuratively eat.
Yes agree different perceptions different names.
I am not sure what the writer was pointing to when that was said. It only makes sense when you realize that our minds put other things before that which is within. So if you like the one true God within all things. People worship some strange things even in our minds. Most of what we cling to can be interpreted as putting other Gods before God.
There are many books claiming to be the only word of only one god - that this one fact creates wars and hatred between peoples means this view must be simply wrong.
For sure! The bible says that many false prophets will rise claiming... We have to be in tune with the creator to be able to pick out "HIS" words. If your book speaks along his lines, you are his. Jesus, our example, stated that he came to set families apart from eachother. One will know and the other, not. Wars are created yes. We wrestle not against flesh and blood.
Then I am sorry to say that I totally reject such a divisive set of ideas - anything that supports war and division, especially in the family is to be abhorred and rejected - good job humanity is beginning to realise that these are not the words of a deity but those of a bitter and rejected race of people at the time they wrote it.
Being made in his image, you have a right. God does not force himself or his ways upon us. We must choose him. If you reject, heaven weeps; but allows you your God-given right to decide.
Did you read his words? You imagine a heaven that weeps because a human chooses to turn their back on violence and devisive behavior? Heaven is disappointed when a person wants peace for humanity?
That's an odd philosophy.When you believe like me, Hi Emile:), there is no peace for humanity until God reclaims the world. Maybe tomorrow. I know I'm ready for some peace. But now... you read the news, right?
His word teaches us how to live with the mess we've created.There are many peaceful human beings. It just isn't advertised that well because peace doesn't sell. It isn't so much God reclaiming the world. It is finding the God within and peace is a positive side effect.
Heaven weeps when we decide to operate outside of God. Did you read my words?
Yes, I did read your words. I’ve also read what others wrote. I’m still confused by your reasoning.
What do you think God’s goal is? To be worshiped, or for humanity to conduct themselves by principles of love and compassion for others?
If someone believes that Christianity is divisive and violent (and that is not an unreasonable accusation to make)…is it moral, or immoral, to follow that philosophy? Should one choose to be divisive and violent, if that is what they believe God wants? Will heaven rejoice at that?Since God is worshipped all day everyday, I don't believe he is starving for worship. I believe his main goal for us, as flawed individuals with our own minds and desires, is to simply choose him, of all the choices we have. Along with that, if we choose him, our brother does not have to worry about us, because we are kind, loving, patient, peaceful people. We love as he does. You seem to think that Christianity is violent, why?
I said it was not an unreasonable accusation to make. Reasonable people can view the same events and come to different conclusions. Although I don’t think the religion itself is violent, the religion has been used to promote wars and to subjugate entire populations. Even in America today; we see how Christians use their misguided faith for violence. Whether it is to justify the murder of a physician; or attempted emotional bullying to change our laws… it is still violence caused by misguided faith.
People do foolish things in the name of God. Remember, the bible says that all that say they belong to him are not his. People do foolish things. God laid it out plainly for all who wish to follow. We know a tree by the fruit it bears. If this tree wears violence on his leaves, he probably does not belong to God. Also, God does not bully. If this tree is using fear as it's tactic, probably is not God. People change the law to fit their agenda, however, when you study the words you will not be fooled by false teaching. It is all written for verification.
Well, I think we can agree on your statement that God doesn’t bully. But, I wasn’t insinuating that there was a deity who did. I find it humourous that you, like others, insist that you know right because you study the word. You can't be wrong because God talks to you. You, and only you, are right and if someone suggests you think it through the response has a kind of a 'Get thee behind me satan' flavor.
I'm sorry you don't understand.Well, i think that you may have taken that stance because you come to the discussion and ot seems that your only agenda is to call the child of God foolish. That is fine, but why? The last time I spoke to you, it seemed that you were on a quest for a cosmic truth that everyone will agree upon. Any luck with that?
I have no idea what you are talking about, with the cosmic truth thing. The only honest approach is we don't have evidence of one.
If you feel foolish; don't come to that opinion because of anything I've said. I told you in the beginning I'm not a Christian. But you were dishonest when you started the thread. You weren't honestly looking for an open dialogue. I get the impression from your posts you simply started this thread to preach.
You've had some incredibly interesting answers from hubbers who are very intelligent and obviously spiritual. Although I get the impression you haven't ingested a word they said I should thank you for starting this thread; because they've offered up some fascinating food for thought.
And it is precisely the study, motionless, emphatic acceptance of just those words as the only authority, that has been justified as cause for said violence. Constantine, The Crusades, The War on Terror are all based on some kind of biblical justification. I think it stems from a belief about this New World Order, anti-christ embodiment hypocrisy and people forcing non-existent prophecies to come to pass. Everything points to it. "These things must happen", they say, "We are just helping them along". Fear breeds control, be it fear of Hell, fear of God, fear of death and fear of evil in whatever form.
No the main goal is man made.there is no goal post nor are there any points to score. In saying that what they were pointing to made sense in that if you chose the God within we would be better for it. Man's way of pointing to what was more beneficial in a long run did not mean that God itself made that a goal. Man did in his wisdom.
I'm not sure. Jesus wept. God is saddened when we turn away.
Yet they are only perceptions of the same God. Claims that they are the ones that have the only true path and true God is a natural side effect of a finite mind that for the most part cannot perceive the infinite nature of God.
There is no evidence that they are the same god I think, the idea of monotheism was invented by the Pharoah before King Tut I believe, then a bunch of wandering jews happened on it but couldn't read the hieroglyphs so made up their own version.
Monotheism was not invented, in my opinion. To me, it's just the way it is. If you don't trust it because "the wandering dejections made up their own version with the bread raining every morning" you are well within your right to "put together" what you have decided is your version. If you find the path to him, you will come up with a good version. With all you know about antiquity, you should come up with the "truth" and put it in a book. If it all makes "good sense" to everybody, then you will be talked about for the next 2000 yrs.
That would apply only if God was a written concept. The written concepts of God is man's way of trying to describe what is within, as it is not a physical thing. So, because we all have different ways of describing what we sense or feel it appears it is different but in reality it is not in my view.
Also, the creator created me with my mind and all, in his image. He gave me instructions to follow though. We must be on guard for things that water down God's message. There is a war. But we wrestle not against flesh and blood. What do we wrestle against??? I know you know;)
And what is God's image in your opinion? The most watering down elements are the elements of the mind. The war therefore is between mind and the spirit that dwells within.
I can see where you are going. Our minds are to be brought under subjection to the law of God. He cannot dwell in an unclean temple. God's image to me for the purpose of creation is free will. We can choose to do whatever. We have bodies that maintain themselves, and repair themselves, we can decide, think, and grow in knowledge. We can improve ourselves. We must know right from wrong and act on that.
It took Jesus a long time too. Can't remember how long he was in the desert before he became aware of his connection with God. Or to that stage where he could really say, I and my father are one.
Knowing and experiencing are two very different things.
Only in the form that the mind would give them.
And as i told you before, I spent an entire year, just listening to the "HOLY"spirit, and writing what I was told. I received a lot of those things of the word once "mysterious" to me. I was able to finally understand. You know those "contradictions" that people speak of? He broke some of the codes for me. It was a really great year!!!
So, what you mean to say is, "You got a word." or a lot of words and ran with it.
Which suggests that for some reason the Spirit -which is Creator Himself- needed to tutor/translate the Bible for you and reveal those "mysteries", those unsightly misnomers called contradictions, crack the Bible code, thus revealing Himself, His power and glory, in all its fullness, to you, which gave you the idea that now you understand him -even just a little bit more, yes?Well, in a sense. I have not received in fullness. I don't believe it is possible to understand it all. But, yes, i am "running" with the word that I got from my tutor. See... You gotta have the right tutor. The Holy spirit. If you don't stop to Selah, you will be as chicken with head cut off. The Lord expects us to study his words and remember them. Study his words. His words.
And yes, I understand a bit more;) SEEK and you will find. ASK and it shall be given. Come to him with an empty cup though. If you already have each answer, what can you receive. We must go as children. Not know-it-alls expecting him to prove your finite thinking. You must step out of the box of normality and try to think as he does. You find out how he thinks through his words. Uh...and where are those??? U got it!!!
Okay, a whole year is a long time. So showing me the Torah proof of demons should be a snap. 365 days @ 4 hours is nearly 1,460 study hours. The KJV has about 1800 pages (275 New Testament only), so you should have done the Torah - Genesis to Malachi in that year.
Puleeeez. Some things don't need to be poured over. I must admit that the "begats" crossed my eyeballs. Didn't get through much of that. But Jesus, i got. His time here is adequately documented as far as I'm concerned. But more, i learned so much by what he taught. His words ALWAYS work for me when tested. Now if you have better, by all means, start you a forum, and talk all about it
But I can't come.Now, now, don't deflect.
I said, just Torah {the old testament} not the New Testament.
Once you study Torah, even briefly, you realize that Creator did not make demons from angels, nor create a Satan to test the love of mankind. Here's why: The Creator is not a respecter of persons.What about the part about, "walking to and fro, seeking whom i may devour." who said that? "Have you considered my servant, Job?" who said that? No respector of persons means that he doesn't care who you are, you must do things his way. Or, he treats us all on an even keel.
I can only say, go sit and listen to some rabbi's or take a course in Hebrew to answer that fully.
The term ha-satan is mentioned nearly 10,000 times in Torah, especially in Job. Never once is any Satan mentioned. The term/adjective ha-satan means: adversary, distract from, misguide, lead astray, thwart, deter, accuse, divert, deflect, block the way of. It is the human mind -the Knowledge Of Sin, Tree of Knowledge that is mans satan, not some rouge angel, because man is controlled by his own thoughts, and not the Breathe of Life. Hence religion, bible worship, demon stories, wars and conflicts caused by Christians for nearly 2000 years after the Resurrection yet, not one drop of SOLT or KOH.
The war you speak of against powers, principalities is mostly external -as seen by right wing fundies and this guy is the antichrist or that guy. The real war is between the human spirit and the human mind. But, I won't get into that again on HubPages. lol.
James.You forgot, "spiritual wickedness in high places". You gave the definition of ha-satan and it seems to imply that there is something to distract or deflect from. Please tell me what that is Sir. You have already denied demonology. What works in opposition to God?
The thinking of man is in opposition. It has been opposed ever since Adam chose his thoughts -which he was created above- instead of continuing to walk with Creator. Man is his own enemy. This is ha-satan, the real satan, devil, deceiver. Man's mind wasn't supposed to rule over him, now dictate his direction. Man chose those processes in him instead of the One who made those processes to begin with. He traded access to the Tree of Life for Knowledge.
"You study diligently the scriptures for in them you think you have unlocked the mysteries to the kingdom of heaven/eternal life. But, I tell you, all those scriptures were about [Y`shua] me."
All the Torah was a prophecy about Y`shua Moshiach. That accounts for 95% of the bible. The other 5% reaffirms the completion of the Work and Restoration, the restoring of the Knowledge of Life in each who is born of spirit -into eternal life. But now that the Spirit has come, we no longer need a tutor, for He, Creator dwells in us. This is extremely and vividly explained in the Letter of Revealing, especially chapter 1, verse 1.
Before I go, just to confirm that there is no war happening with the Debble, nor a Rapture, nor another Great Tribulation, etc. Please read Revelation 20.5-6 and ask yourself when did the first one happen and how many years was there between David and Y`shua Moshiach?
James.I wonder what the bible meant about becoming wiser yet weaker. You have more knowledge than I on the subjects studied outside the bible. However, I am not deterred. There are evil spirits that take you down the path of disobedience as in the garden that you have mentioned. The serpent wasn't there for real??? Why does he now slither? Yes, man's mind works in opposition to God. That is why he wrote it down. There are no excuses for not studying for an understanding of what it says; not with a red marker.
Study Hebrew to understand the serpent, same serpent Moshe had on his staff -you know when he faced Pharaoh, parted the Red Sea and held up so that Israel would prevail in battle?! "For even as Moshe lifted up the serpent in the desert, so also the Son of Man must be lifted up."
Anyway, I bid you peace -real peace, not the fake stuff and will say good night.That is probably what is meant by becoming wiser yet weaker. When the mind intellectualizes the concepts it reads, it ignores what is dwelling within that does not require intellectualizing but being-ness.
Life, my dear, IS outside the bible, not in it. Really? Prove there are evil spirits in real-time. furthermore, if life is in the bible only, then those perky vermin are trapped in there only, so what's all the fuss by believers about the devil, demons, etc?Makes no sense. Why would Creator instruct man -who is now in opposition to the Truth- to write that Truth down and memorize it and speak only it. Wouldn't that Truth be skewed greatly by the human mind that is in opposition to Truth; opposed to the spirit, the ruach, the Tree of Life?lol Red marker, highlighter, yup, know that too well. However the only reason why the believing believe they must study for understanding is because of one line Saul wrote to Timothy, his student. Beyond that, there is the Old Coven requirement of binding the law between the eyes, on tablets because their hearts were hard -meaning their spirit not connected to Creator -the Spirit; did not have salvation; did not have the restored anointing of that same Spirit. Understand the righteous requirement has been fulfilled, by those who now Walk with, walk in Spirit. Those still in the flesh {opposition mentality} need instruction by the law, by the text, and believe through the text they unlock eternal life and the mysteries of Creator, because they are still in opposition to the truth, still eating of the Tree of Knowledge -good/evil, right/wrong.
The Tree of Knowledge bears fruit, yes, and it leads only to death {circa 6000 years of proof}. The Tree of Life bears fruit right along side the TOK, but the TOL brings to life even the dead of body, mind and spirit.
Just as Creator told Adam, He tells you and I, "Do not eat of the TOK, or you will die."
And here you are saying, "Eat! Eat! Eat of the Knowledge of Sin {aka the law and all its parts - the bible}. It is the most amazing thing ever! Eat it every day, as often as you can. Study it day and night! There is power and life in every word of it! Because it contains the mysteries of Creator- His words- His Wisdom. Eat and you will understand Creator! Eat and you will know good from evil! You will live, not die... C'mon, you know you want some.
Umm, thanks Eve, but no thanks.
JamesJames!!! You came back!!!
good afternoon!
Man shall not live by bread alone... There is more to that, right? Eat the words of God.
Since made in God's image, your father Adam, chose death. He disobeyed a direct order from God. He decided that. Just as you have a right to decide. I, on the other hand, absolutely hate "vomit" so, i won't be turning around to revamp what i know in my heart to be the only real truth.
Just in case you haven't noticed, the heart of man is no good without God. He must be asked in. He does not force you to do what he says. The spirit of God is all-knowing. I only want that. I don't want a "newer" version of God. He does not change. James, the "debble" is real and he desires to sift you as wheat. Yes, you too. God has made a way of escape.When is man's heart ever without God in your opinion?
God doesn't go anywhere though. The mind may negate Gods existence., does not necessarily mean God has gone.
No God is not gone when man turns away, man is . But he waits at the door of your heart until you are ready to receive of him again.
I am asking you and the rest of the world to eat of the tree of the knowledge of God. There is no real knowledge without God, the only truth. Now if you believe that you are the word of God, speak what he says. That's it in a nutshell, right?
= Tree of Knowledge in the Garden.
And I quote: "you will become like Creator, knowing good from evil." -which you pointed out so well. So again, thanks but no thanks. The Tree of Life is my preference. The true knowledge of Creator was genetically programmed into every fiber of every human being, else they wouldn't be His most awesome creation. Now to understand the mysteries of the Kingdom, of that stasis, of that Garden, we need only Walk in Spirit. The rest comes easy.Of that statis of that garden??? Listen, if God programmed, as you say, then why speak the command to Adam in the first place??? Don't you see yourself leaning to your own understanding? If God is programmed, as you say, why the tablets? Please, let go of yourself and cling to the father. He is the master programmer, but you (and me), he left to your own devises with a decision to make... Choose today! Or something like that:)
What? He cannot reinforce what he made with a warning? lol, that's funny. We were not forbidden Knowledge, we were told not to indulge it. BIG difference. Who is to say the plan wasn't to teach us how to properly use those thoughts, versus the jumbled mess we use today -and thinking it is spot on, awesome. Those thoughts, those strands of light, were put there so we would not have to indulge them, to live as heaven-earth. They were put there to process light not rule us. Don't you see that?What are you talking about? Wait, you assume because I am not complying with "strictly bible only" that it is my own understanding? Ha! Don't I wish -well actually no, I do not wish.
We are all born with full understanding of Creator. He hides nothing from us - nothing. Just because Adam jumped the gun on being instructed in Knowledge and we took the plunge into our own minds, and suffer from amnesia, does not mean we have to stay that way. We are not required to reason good from evil -which is what the entire bible is all about -the knowledge of sin {through the written law and prophets}. We are required to walk in practical faith. Not a combo of both. Not pseudo faith either.I explained this already, because people had hard hearts -meaning they were ha-satan, in opposition. Remember the text says the written word came for a time, through the law and prophets, until Moshiach came and set things right. So, please, in kind, let go of yourself.Again, I knew you would say this. lol. We are not orphans left to our own devices. Once you choose Spirit, there is no decision to make any longer, no more battle, no more enmity. This is further exemplified by the Tree of Life parallel to the Tree of Knowledge. Both existed together, not in two separate Gardens, right?
So, again, Eve, no thank you.
I have eaten the Knowledge {knowing} of good from evil {my own thoughts, the Tree of Knowledge} more than I care to admit. To the point where it made me sick to my stomach and is killing everyone around me. Slow, painless suicide of thoughts. There is a way that seems proper {kosher} to a man, but in the end it leads to death. And I have no plans on dieing, unless He desires it. And if the information is even remotely accurate and the promises in effect, then am indeed looking forward to being transformed into my true form, body mind and spirit - by the Spirit - and rejoice in eternal life walking side by side with my Abba. No bible, no grave, no law, no duality of good-evil required.
James.If you are all the God you need, why discuss it with mere Christians?
lol. was waiting for that.
Where -scroll back- did I say I was god or a god? No where.
Why, because I do not need the bible, only need the Spirit -who is the Creator Himself to instruct me in the ways of Eternal Life? Check yourself. I know my place and it is beside my Abba, as Adam once was, as Y`shua Moshiach is now, as every other human being -including you- were destined to be. The firstborn paved the way for all of us to achieve it. But people refuse to accept it. They deny the point of the entire thing from Genesis to Revelation -yes, the Work itself. Instead, they cling to the law, the prophets, the tablets of clay, their doctrines and demons.
I see no reason {no pun intended} to refuse the Spirit and quench His desire -a desire that has been brooding since the beginning; a desire that burns up every last drop of my own jumbled up thinking - and purifies every last drop of even my blood itself.
Okay, have to stop here, am getting ready to preach to ya. lol.
James.No hitting and running;) How do you know that the spirit within you is correct? Is that written within you too. No, i don't remember hearing that you feel you are God, but i'm reslly not sure what you are saying, to be totally honest. It's like you are all over the place with what you believe. Some of the bible, but not all of it. You have within you a God program, but God needs to "reinforce". Uh, The tablets were for the hard-hearted, but they, too, have a God program??? And you will not swallow the fact that God has rules, he wrote them down in one (or two) places and he expects us to take it or leave it; not grab a little from here, a little there, most from within, and poof! You are what he desires.
Why are you stuck on them tablets, on the Law of Sin & Death, the Tree of Knowing Good From Evil? Stop striking the serpents head with rocks, and it will stop biting your ankles...
What you speak of is the torah laws. When Jesus came, he fulfilled the law, if you believe like I believe. But then did God in his magnificent power then say, "ok, now do what you want to do"? there are still principles. The first being to love God, and brother. Then to believe that he sent his son to save you. His son left a lot of principles. And he corrected the faulty teachings of the church. The Lord saw that the priests abused the powers of being God's only link to man. He stopped it with Jesus, who drew an unnumerable amount of links. Man is too faulty and finite in thinking to listen to God within without instructions on how. Don't be fooled by your own understanding, acknowledge
lol. Did I mention you're fun?
Do me a personal favor, stop tossing out memorized biblical word salad.
I know it too well to be caught in the rhetoric.
But, since you mentioned it, what are those universal principles?
My 14 translations say there is only ONE principle: Love.
Now, am gonna preach to ya, okay? How would you know what man is faulty at, when you are suffering from the same amnesia? Should I say mirror or plank in eye perhaps? How do you know what those instructions are, when you prefer to reference the words written by man, reference precisely the law -and all its parts- saying others must do the same to obtain the knowledge of Creator? Should I say Pharisee?!
The bible is 95% Torah, remember. I continue to remind you to have your mind renewed {reprogrammed} to correctly understand {rightly divide/discern} the knowledge given you since the beginning {the word in your heart -the word of Truth} by the Spirit. Yet, you continue to cling to the law of sin and death, every chapter, every verse.
So, please, stop striking that serpent and it will stop biting your heel. You are fighting against yourself. Battling your own mind. It is madness to do so! Let go, let God. Choose the Tree of Life and all things will be added to you... prove what is that acceptable and perfect will of Creator; that Gift of Grace that comes down from the Father of Lights.
And again, no thank you, Eve. I will not eat of that fruit. I know this guy who did, like, 7000 years ago. There was a thing- it did not go very well or how he planned.
JamesYour posts are too long. Saying a whole lot to say, what? The pharisees tried to change the law. They added; trying to, oh who knows? Jesus dpoke about what we should do while he was here. We do have instructions.
Very True....
Love your God with all your heart, soul and mind....And love your "brother" as yourself.
Simple instructions...Easy...You can't be serious. He said those two were what all the law was hinged on. He was pretty claar how important that was.
And that is the problem with Christianity. It bypasses and sidelines what he said. Nothing is more important than those two rules.Yes! Bypassing and sidelining Jesus I will not do; he was our example. All the what was hinged on those two??? The bible tells us what it means to love as well. It shows us how God loves, and will show our children, and their children.
All the law and the prophets, according to your text. That is what is so simple. I think that's why what James says makes sense. You have the tools to do this inside of you. It's all about love. And don't tell me you can't know love unless you study and interpret the Bible the way you do.
Every thing you say that puts conditions on love is in contradiction to the two rules. It didn't say if. The if comes from interpreting other parts. Which dilutes the two. Which is what was wrong in the first place before Jesus preached. Too much interpretation by the religious.Conditions on love? What does that mean? I say what the bible says. I pray nothing more or less.
In so doing you dilute what Jesus said was the most important. If you don't follow his commandments, why call yourself a follower of Christ?
You can't do it halfway. If you put conditions on these two commandments, you don't follow these two commandments. Your conditions are your reasoning why you shouldn't have to follow these two commandments. And it is tough. It's hard to love across the board. So you justify your actions by pouring through the text to find a way to argue why you think God said we don't have to.What conditions are you speaking of, again. Please take off the gloves. Hopefully, we can reason together and see where we differ. I have my take, you have yours. I'm mature, almost 40, i can discuss without disgust. I don't hate you or your words. I just want to understand, and i want you to understand. No need for bitterness. God has time for you to figure it out. I have plenty of time too, if the Lord allows. So where do WE dissgree?
I apologize if you think I have gloves on. I don't. I've just never understood why Christianity ignores this. It's glaringly obvious to me. Love what is above and what is right beside you. Look on your neighbor as a part of yourself. Put their needs on the same footing as your own. Give your life for them if need be.
According to your text, no one asked God to send Jesus. It was his idea. Done out of love. Love sent Reason to walk among man and share his Word. That word was summed up in the two commandments. If everyone followed the two there would be no war. No hunger. No homelessness. Why Christians fight against it has never made sense to me. And that is all 'interpretation' consists of. Finding ways to turn a blind eye to things that are difficult to do.Ok, i still dont get the "conditions" part. But as for these statements; what is love? Once you tell me, tell me how to do it. Then tell me if I am doing it correctly. Wait! I don't trust that you know. Hmmm... How do i find out about this love thing that you speak of. EUREKA!!! I think I've got it.
Your conditions? Let's think. How many different ways have you said people are working against God? Heaven is weeping because they didn't post a mirror image of your opinion?
You see people as adversaries of a God if they don't agree with you. I think it was James who said Creator is no respecter of persons. If we are all looked on the same....it is you perceiving cosmic strife where none exists. You don't give another human the same respect God does. You ignore one commandment in your need to prove you follow the other. Those are your conditions. Agree with you, or we are outside of God's grace.
As to love. Are you arguing that you don't know what unconditional love is?I agree with God. That is why my responses heavily include what i believe to be the words of God. I have never said that you must see it as I do. I only give my responses based upon how i interpreted what the Lord has said to my heart. He knows what word to put where. Has the Lord ever spoken to you?
I don't know that I believe God is talking to you. I have felt the presence of a consciousness. But that presence has never given me the impression that it was its way, or the highway. I was simply aware of a great deal of love and compassion.
So, I guess I'm sharing what I believe was shared with me. We are all loved unconditionally and we should find a way to follow suit.Yes we are all loved unconditionally. We need to find a way to pay it forward. The bible teaches us how. Now go on and give me a word that says differently.
Why not?
You think you have it? And, your answer is God, right? Wrong.
Love comes from within you, when you truly understand yourself and the world around you. The only solution is to start with the most basic understanding about yourself.
Who am I? What am I? How do I be me? When will I know I'm being me? And, where do I want to be with my life before I figure it out?
Any other questions are moot. Answer those questions about yourself, using your own conscience. To recognize your conscience, you must be able to maintain the ability to see past your own ego. If you don't know the difference between an ego driven action and a conscience driven action, then you will not care for the consequences or reaction which will happen from your actions.
This is called being dishonest with yourself about yourself and your understanding of yourself. Honesty is the best policy. Honesty will help manifest Love for yourself.
Love is many things and the power of it can be overwhelming if you have no self control, esteem or confidence. If you don't have trouble believing in yourself and maintain a faith about your capabilities and potential, then you will adequately grow self esteem and confidence, which also assist in manifesting Love.
If you're interested, if you are truly willing and able to give your life for a complete stranger, then you have truly found the greatest love you could ever find. Why? Because, it is the example Jesus bestowed everyone with his Death(he showed self sacrifice to save others). No resurrection needed, desired, wanted, warranted or required. For you to be able to recognize Love's greatest gift to oneself is motivating and extremely powerful. I know, I live with it everyday of my life and have no problem giving my life for someone else.
Edit: No God Required.God is the source of love, i only trust what he says about it. All else must line up with that. You spoke about ego, then told me that all i have to do is listen to me to find the truth??? I don't trust me either!!! But it takes a large smount of ego to believe that God lives between your ears. Jesus spoke about his "father" often. Surely, he could not have been referring to "Big Daddy Brain". We need all the words of God to survive successfully. What else?
That's what Jesus was meaning when he said let your will be done not mine. He did not trust his own will because he knew he had an ego just like every other human being.
Do you realize that you have contradicted what you said earlier?
Didn't you agree that we are all god-like creatures with the law inside us? Why then would we not trust our own god-will? God's will is much different from our own and we fight him on that.
I am not sure how you saw what I said as a contradiction? Yes the law (in your words) is inside us and we also have knowledge which Jacharless was pointing to. The law is beyond our logical and reasoning mind. Discerning which is which is the key. This is what makes God easy to discern. Our logic and reason will always fight that which it does not yet understand. It can only formulate what it feels. It is in our formulations where we often trip up.
So when Jesus said your will not mine he is pointing to that which is beyond logic and reason. His will included logic and reason.
However, they are not separate really we just choose what dominates. Together than can work perfectly.J was saying that we no longer need the words of the bible because we are the word of God. The bible says that we must have the words of God. Man can not live by bread alone. He needs every word that God speaks. I believe the bible to be his words, therefore essential. Soon, there will be no bibles. Then the word must already be within you. The precious words of the bible need to be within you. You must have faith to keep them there.
Jacharless was pointing to the words that are written in the heart of everyone who exists. Man decided to express what was written in their hearts by literal expression. So we have what is written in the hearts of man and the literal expression to choose from. You have chosen the literal expression, nothing wrong with that. It fits with your own experiences currently. But not everyone will take that path, especially if they are listening to what God speaks or writes in their hearts. The many versions of God available today is a great illustration of man wanting to express in literal form what is written in their hearts as they perceive it to be.
None of which I might add is either right or wrong. Just different perceptions.I can understand what you say. But There is one way to the father. Only a few find it. Have i? I believe so. But again it is available for ALL to embrace. There is a wrong way, believe that. Leaning unto our own understanding is where we fall short. God's kingdom makes no sense with earth glasses on.
I am not sure you understood because you are still advocating there is one way? Are you saying there is only one way to know what is written in our own hearts? Do people need someone else to tell them what is written in their heart or am I not getting what you are saying?
What is the wrong way?The wrong way is leaning unto your own understanding. That just about knocks the "we as Gods" theory out the window. There are evil spirits looking to do damage to God's head-count. God's power is needed to thwart their attacks. We cannot do it on our own. We must let God in in order to do things his way. He just won't stay if you put him out.
So in essence you are saying we need someone else to decipher what is written in our hearts yes? So this person or this book can see what is in our hearts and we can't? Whatever may serve to point to our hearts but it cannot do the seeing for us.
Of course leaning to our understanding (what we learn) may negate what is written in our hearts however that does not mean it goes anywhere. It will still be there.I believe the book can see into my heart. It is the most amazing book i have ever read (and i've read many). It lives. The bible answers all questions.
Oh please.
Really? Then you've only deluded yourself about your own understanding of yourself.
You don't trust your own conscience? WOW! Boy are you hurting the world around you.
No one said God lives between anyone's ears. Get real.
Really? Is it a literal understanding? Or did you fail to learn that metaphors and religious parables were used by him to disguise his teachings in the pathetic lame-a$$ language available?
Actually, Jesus' teachings are not about a G/god, but are about living life on Earth as peaceful as possible and the fact that you don't know that is part of the problem.
BS.
You're too far gone to be reasoned with.
Luke 10: 25-28
25On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27He answered: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’c; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’d”
28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
Mark 12:28-34
28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
29“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.e 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’f 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’g There is no commandment greater than these.”
32“Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.
Matthew 22-34-40
34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together.
35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’b 38This is the first and greatest commandment.
39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
And as a Side note...I have studied...Quite abit actually and for many years... My study was of a formal nature...Beautiful! Study is important. So, Jesus said that the only commandments were these. So you are following?
Read Matthew 22:37-40 again...He said these were the greatest ones and all other are hinged on them...
Simply put... means if you follow these two simple things...the rest will all fall into place...
Love...and one can automatically obey all rule set down by God...a very simple concept that way to many try to complicate or just don't understand....Again i say, the bible teaches us how that love is manifested. It shows us HOW God loves. How can we with "ha-satan the adversary" living in there, know what that love is without the word?
"No greater love than one who would lay down his life for a friend"....Hmm..sounds to me like putting others before yourself (selflessness) counts as love...
I am not seeing the difficulty?
And the passages I listed are about how we are suppose to love...they have nothing to do with how God loves..I don't see the difficulty either. Do you realize a second ago, you quoted another word of scripture? Didn't Jesus say you only needed two things??? Why all the scripture?
This first scripture I posted talked about the 2 greatest commandments...Both included love...The second gives an example of what love is...
And since you have stated that you get your information from the bible...I thought it might be good to have this discussion using a format you say that you know well....I wanted the format of our conversation to be something we both have commonality in.Thank you. Your kindness is appreciated. We need the words of the bible, don't you see? Or are those two scriptures the only ones necessary? If so, Jesus could have rode out on the cloud ince he completed that statement. But there was more work to do. Some lady was about to be stoned by the people for doing the wrong that those prople probably did everyday.
With the exception of a few certain lessons directed at certain people(and even these contained love)...all of his messages were about love.
Jesus spoke of a number of things when he walked the earth. He taught us love, prayer, honesty, loyalty, righteousness, and of course, what he called "the important" matters of the law.
You do realize that all of the things you listed are easily covered by following the two commandments?
No, prayer is not covered in the two commandments to love. But if you pray right, love will result somewhere. HINGES on. Not IS.
If you love God, you would pray to him. Would you not?
Yes, but there are a lot of things we do to show God's love. I can't pray to my brother. So, the word shows me how to correctly love him. We cannot please God without faith in what HE says. The bible says that also.
You can "pray" to anyone...
The word pray means to ask or implore someone...
(see Dictionary for more defined meaning of the word)I don't know where you live, or what your life experiences have been. I was weaned on, raised with and, in my adult years, insistent on being surrounded by love. I didn't live in utopia. I simply recognize the good that has been done and struggle to understand, and put into perspective, things done that have fallen short of that mark. If you need a book to understand the concept....if you don't have it within yourself to make decisions that take the well being of others into account... then maybe (for this stage in your life) this is what you need.
I'll end our dialogue at this point. I sincerely hope one day you open your eyes and your heart. I can see that you desperately desire it to happen. You are a good person, searching for answers. Just as we all are.I guess I will bid you farewell with these words: I for one have found my answers. Since you are still searching, I pray you find the truth that feels right for you. Thanks Emile. You are extremely intelligent. Thank you for your input. I am almost sure we will meet again
Yes, and compassion, tolerance, humility, patience, forgiveness, mercy, peace, kindness just to name a few more that all are attributes of 'unconditonal love' You cannot find that in a book except in conceptual form. It exists only in a human.
However, the bible contains those words.
You people are telling me that the bible is flawed and unneccessary, but yous sure do quote it a lot!!!Show me where I said the bible is flawed? Is that how you perceive the bible, why you bought it up? Perceptions have flaws.
I thought i remembered you saying that the bible was not necessary because God speaks to our hearts. Sorry for the mistake.
No worries. The bible is useful for some. Yes God does speak to our hearts just some may not have the inner resources to listen beyond the pain and abuse they might have been exposed to. It is then I think the bible and Christianity may become more useful.
How so? God was talking to the hearts of men long before the bible was written.
I think he spoke with his children directly. As in a bush burning, heavy rain storms, mighty winds. When the children were in the desert, he wrote his words down.
I agree with directly. Man wrote Gods word down.
You missed the point entirely it seems. Gods word was translated through man's mind. God did not physically write the book or do you think God did?
I only going to cover "prayer" in this response.
The Lords Prayer:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven. ( Love your god with all your heart, soul and mind)
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors. (Love your brother as yourself)
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.
Seems to be the same message once again...Depending on the interpretation used...the words "evil one' can be anything from; Devil, adversary, or any other thing considered bad"
Lead us not into temptation. What category does that fall in?
A gentle reminder that when you do not love you will be led into the temptations of the mind.
He said to ask God not to lead you into temptation. Not, ask for him to ensure that we love so no temptation arises. Then deliver us from evil.
You asked what category it fit in. I gave you one.
Lets look at that phrase....
Sounds like Jesus is saying God is the one who leads a person into temptation...
But that last part is...if we do the portions above that, it is requested that God doesn't tempt but keeps us free of "evil"
It seems as though you've got your own salad:) you know the word. If you are doing, where do we disagree?
Your word is from a book made by man. My word is from the Living God. See the diff?
That is where I see we disagree.
And you can spin it any way you like, it is keeping you from Life.
In short: Show me the Salt!Well, I need to clearly explain that I am using as my reference, the Holy bible. Your reference is the spirit in you that hopefully is the spirit of God, since you have no reference. God spoke. Why, because he knew that we needed that. He reinforces what he put inside of you with written material. We cannot divvy the word of God and agree with only those parts that feel good to the way we like to do things. We as humble children of God realize that we need him and his word to live this life. We haven't come to the conclusion that we are so much like God that we can listen to what goes on in our mind (you know the one called ha-satan?
Its quite easy to understand really. God is within is God not? God is infinite and we are just a sum part of the total. Which means our finite self will dissipate sooner or later but the God within will go on. The infinite part that we are (made in God's image) will therefore go on. We just won't know the 'I' that we are today.
God is within if you allow him. He won't dwell in an unclean temple. You must take out the trash of self and allow him to renew your mind.
So where does God go when the temple is not clean do you think?
Yes the mind. I think Jacharless mentioned that before.
It didn't say that did it? It said no repecter of persons yes, but then it goes on to say, because God only cares about what it is in the heart.
I don't need to answer this, Jacharless is doing a good job.
And you are right. Not everyone that cries Lord, Lord is his.
Salt is a compound element: Sodium and Chloride. Salt exists in the human body. At the time of death, almost immediately, dehydration begins, and the H2O (Another elemental compound) When dehydration is complete, all that remains is the dust (made up of other elements, including iron...and sodium/chloride. Part of you literally becomes the salt of the earth. Think about that next time you grab the salt shaker.
Sounds good;) I believe the term Christian comes from those who follow Christ's example and believe that he died to give us abundant life. When you believe like I, you know that Jesus is the only way to the father.
I am pleased for both of you - however, belief on its own does not make anything so.
Our pleasure with the matter makes no difference. Right is right. When you believe the right thing, who loses?
The belief that right is right (because you say so) was totally crushed when people realised that Hitler was absolutely certain that he was right in exterminating the Jews, and burning Europe - I am sure that Bush believed he was right in his self serving war on Islam. Your book gets it wrong many times, for instance when it talks about stoning adulterers, dividing families and so on - right and worng are subjective values, there is no universal 'truth' beyond most people believe something and so universally agree.
When you say something is right or wrong you are only attempting to impose your view of things on others. That you get your right and wrong 'written on your heart' is close to insanity, and is ow bipolar people are certain that they are being told to do thijngs, sometimes terrible things.
I totally reject such a blind path that has direct physical effects on others because of a metaphysical 'feeling' that you 'believe' tells you what is right and wrong.
There is one ultimate force. All else are aspects of that ultimate force. That force is a pre-universal energy state, that same state which preceded this reality, and all other realities. (There are other realities, as suggested by string theory. The generator of the separate strings are black holes.) There are many levels to god...we are one of those levels. Why? Because we became more than the sum of our parts, as we were programmed to do. Be fruitful and multiply. Here, on this level, it is for us, as the dominators of this ecosystem, to once again prove we are more than the sum of our parts. Benevolent god or malevolent god. You already are, and always has mankind been, one or the other.
This is so not what I want to discuss. I will not puff myself up enough to assume equality with my creator. But, if that is your take, have at it. Guess you dont need prayer; you're answering them???
I would never to presume that I or you are greater than our master. I said that there are different levels, that everything is of a divine nature, and that what we call as God is the highest level, and we occupy the lowest level, but at that level, as written in Genesis, we are granted dominion over this world. If we insist on conducting ourselves in a malevolent manner, reflecting the negative aspect which God himself claims authorship of, then that will indeed determine our continued survival. That is whether there is a God or not...but help us all if there isn't. I have witnessed, beyond a shadow of doubt, proof of the Presence, and just why would your God, for it could have been no other, reveal his presence to me? My ego lay slain, for I am in surrender and service. Close your judgemental eyes. "It is written in the scriptures, and the scriptures cannot be broken...You are all gods." Jesus, sometime around 33A.D..
"God lives inside of you...his light shines from out of your eyes." Jesus, sometime around 33 A.D. When you think...you pray. God knows your every thought...how could it be otherwise? God sees from your eyes and every eye...God hears from every ear. This is the truth of the eternal prophet, Melchesidek.
if the salt loses it flavor what is it to be salted with?
That is the question. So how do we as Christians salt the earth?
We keep a steady supply from the Word
You get trampled on. You don't get any other seasoning if I remember correctly lol
So, I have been watching -or rather reading- from a distance and would like to add a footnote:
Gen,
You seem very genuine, endearing even. Still staunch though, imo. Your every post is peppered with biblical sound bites, which confirms a thought I had and possibly expressed earlier: this is not you speaking but the words of others, no doubt ministers, etc, who convinced you by whatever means that the book is all there is -be it instruction, reference, safety. This is also called head knowledge versus heart knowledge aka experience. Again, the only reason I can testify to that is because I taught thousands upon thousands the same thing.
The book is not the issue really, as is the worship or better said idol worship of it. Hebrews did the same thing, if you recall.
Will go out on a limb here and say yes, I can prove you do not need the bible at all in any way, shape or form to know, understand, commune with, experience, and learn from Creator.
You asked me how I know the Spirit in me is that same Spirit. My answer is simple: because there is no other Spirit. It took years for Creator to break through that stubbornness because I too was convinced into worshiping the book and the rhetoric of it. I would hope you not go through the same. But, the only way to find out is to put it to the test and see which is greater: the book or the Creator.
And do not think for even a second he cannot tell you everything without the book, because he was here long before the book and will be here long after there are no books.
Jamesyou're complex. care to speak up a little closer?
The words of the bible are God's words, believe it or not. My posts are peppered with scripture because my words are not adequate enough. I don't know any other words. I realized a long time ago that life without God is excruciating. There was no rest for me until I stopped to understand why my body did not do what my heart said. Yes, God has always lived within me, but it is not so with everyone. Do you believe John Gacy had God's spirit within him when he...? What about Adolph when he...? And Pharoh??? God does not live in us all for most of us are unclean and you know that he don't play that. Darkness and light cannot exist together and so it is with God and evil. No other spirit??? Bite your tongue. Please don't make me preach!!!
If you believe Gods word is written in the heart of man, how is the bible different to what it written in the heart? The word of God is a translation of what is written in the heart, perhaps that is what you were pointing to? Does it not make sense to you to go to the source rather than second hand. Meaning rather than read about what another perceived as God?
Why would you need words of the scripture to know how to give love, compassion, mercy, forgiveness etc. Unless of course you believe they do not naturally exist in man?
I will ask again, where does God go when the temple is unclean?
You seem to limit God when you say God cannot exist with evil.I am not giving you my opinions here. Im simply sharing the bible as i believe it to be the word of God. The question is crazy. Where does God go??? You tel me. But his word says that he will not dwell in an unclean temple. Inside of you, the war of good and evil persists. We mist constantly choose to follow God.
God goes nowhere. God is within. We choose or choose not to acknowledge what is within. God will appear to not dwell there if we have an unclean temple. However that does not mean God does not dwell there. If you constantly follow the God within you will clean out the temple and lo and behold under all the uncleanliness you will find what never went anywhere.
Like Emile, I am going to make this my final post, in this thread.
There is no value in rehashing the same point and getting nowhere.
I say there is only one spirit, because it is true. How?
Creator is Spirit, is His words.
Everything was designed, framed and fashioned by His words, translated ruach.
Confirming this: so the things unseen can now be seen.
This is the universe and everything in it.
Your spirit is His Spirit, like a drop of Himself, the Seed of Life, Kingdom of Heaven.
Since His Spirit is His Words, your spirit -heart- is also his words.
In fact, every fiber of your being is his words, even your mind -your thoughts.
The very air you breathe are his words.
In Him is [Eternal] Life and -watch very closely- Life is the light in man.
That light is your spirit -heart- the Word of Creator, the power of Love.
"And breathed into man the breath of Life and man became a living being".
Living being means eternal. Why? Because the Creator is eternal, is Spirit, your spirit, his words.
When a person hardens their heart, their mind takes control and does whatever they put there hands to. They seek the external, hoping to change or understand the internal. This parable was told as well:
"The outside of the cup is clean, but the inside unclean". Unclean is the same as evil, darkness, void of light, ha-satan. Like you saying you got a word internally, then going externally to the bible to get confirmation, which is pointless. "It is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean {evil, dark}, but what comes out. Because, when you go external, the mind gets in the way.
Saying you do not trust your heart, is saying you do not believe salvation has really come to you. That Creator is not in you. Which is a lie, because his word -himself is your spirit. The mind is in opposition to the Truth, which is already in you. The Spirit is Truth and leads/guides into all Truth. Jesus told you this. He told you he was leaving so that Spirit would come and complete the Will of Creator. This means the Creator guides you from within, revealing everything to you, through the heart. Writing his words further on your heart. The pipeline of his words, Himself, to your heart is that River of Life. Spirit to spirit, life to Life. Word to word. And His word does not return to him void of light, nor dark, nor unclean. The word cannot resist, nor deny itself. What blocks the flow which makes you believe you cannot trust your heart, is that hardness of heart -your own understanding, thinking, reasoning. Same thing the Hebrews did. They preferred to trust the text which Moses and the prophets gave them, for a short time, and not trust the Spirit -the Creator Himself -who had shown them over and over his love and power. His will, to see them set free from their own thinking. Set free from the Adamic Inception, the Fall and restore them fully by his own hand. The Hebrews were so stubborn about keeping the text, worshiping that text to extremes, they went so far as to tear their clothes, pull out the hair from their own beards, roar in extreme anger, and ultimately have the Messenger killed by the hand of their own enemies.
In short, the bible may contain fragments of the words of Creator, which man wrote down, but they are not the fullness of his himself, his spirit, which he breathed into you -which is the Word of Creator.
To be the Salt of The Earth, to season it and flavor it with the Truth, you have to use the heart; a heart so full of his presence, it beams light outward for everyone to see and hear -and they too put their trust in Him.
James.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Guess what I just found out!!!
. We as God's children were instructed to write the words of God on OUR OWN hearts. So we don't forget what he says! I am so relieved!!! We are not God's! We need his word. And we must go get it!!! SEEK and you will find. Knock, and the door will be opened to you. My God is AWESOME!!!Yes in our hearts God will put them. In our minds God will give us the ability to write them. So we have in our hearts or in our minds. You have chosen those of another's mind. Ok
Penny, I have chosen the word of God. It is so necessary to know so as not to be fooled by other spirits. I have seen the passage of scripture that says that the new covenant is that God has written his laws into the hearts of his children. It further says, we wom't have to tell others to know God. For they will know him already. I am not sure of the interpretation for Jesus after he rose said to go out into the world and teach all nations baptizing them in the nsme of the father, son, and holy spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands i have given you. I will find out, and i will be back.
Yes the word of God written by other men. I understand that. You rely on scripture rather than what is written in your heart, ok I get that.
Right. As i've already said, I don't trust my own heart. I cannot even begin to think that listening to the God within me is enough. I need a point of reference, for myself i cannot be. I need to know that the word that i hear is not flavored with my own self/ ego. I must follow this path.
Please tell me what it is that you are basing your information on.
Maybe this thread has reached the gibberish stage now. Random people deciding that one sect among thousands holds all the answers and all the truths is ridiculous enough, but I guess such childlike minds are easy led. I do object to such silliness in modern times when we know far better about so much of what was only belief before.
I do not intend to leave babble unchallenged or let childish drivel be discussed as though it has any basis in reality. To believe old myths intended for ignorant people to be the word of some mythical being just makes the believer ignorant.Ok, i get it. You don't believe me. Thanks for sharing. What else is left?
What is left is the start of the real discussion about how love and tolerance and people living together in better ways is to be accomplished in the modern world now that we know that the last sets of instructions from eople of the past have run their course and no longer work in any way.
Little groups of people choosing to believe different books, different versions of the same books and different interpretations of those same books is totally counter-productive - look at Bush with his 'crusade' against Islam as a cover for snatching the oil fromvarious mid-east countries ! He got huge support from american christians for his crusade and even the current disgusting human being of a pope chimed in with an attack on Islam at the same time to promote the war.
Simple belief in the simple basic principles that can be agreed are 'good' by people who are clearly in the business of doing good are fine, but threading it all through with outdated morals and misunderstood principles does nothing but harm and make you fodder for political manipulaters.
Right is right when youknow why, good is good when you know why, blind adherence to the principles of others is a total waste of time.To the guy above who is the Christian hater: I find your comment very offensive. Your views are more "religious" and prejudice than that which you are attempting to criticize. Bash Bush, bash Bush. The oil argument has become so passe, since it was one that could be made with presidents before Bush going back 40 years - and don't forget about the vote for the war from both parties.
The I hate Bush thing is really We hate all Christians. Bush is the poster guy for all Christians (or should I say "machismo" Christians with a TExas accent?" - who by the way are stereotyped incorrectly as "good looking" "rich" and if a man "handsome" and if a woman "pretty." That's all it is. Is it jealousy? The hate of a "group" of people called Christian is YOUR prejudice and your hate - and like all the left like you all you do is "create" exaggerations and lies to further your hate-filled propaganda. Liberalism today is a "religion," not a politic. REal liberalism was hi-jacked. Below is an outline of how liberals get everyone to hate Christians:
1. The Abandoned Road
2. The Great Utopia
3. Individualism and Collectivism
4. The “Inevitability” of Planning
5. Planning and Democracy
6. Planning and the Rule of Law
7. Economic Control and Totalitarianism
8. Who, Whom?
9. Security and Freedom
10. Why the Worst Get on Top
11. The End of Truth
12. The Socialist Roots of Naziism
13. The Totalitarians in Our Midst
14. Material Conditions and Ideal Ends
15. The Prospects of International Order
Sound familiar? It's been done before. Yawn. How history repeats itself.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Yes! When Jesus was here he spoke of this very scripture from the OT. "I will put my laws in their hearts and write them on their minds." New covenant allowed no further "sacrifice" for sin because Jesus paid. Then the Holy Spirit was sent into the world after Christ had risen. The Holy Spirit is our guide. Yet, Jesus left instruction for us to teach everyone all the commands he spoke.
Then, when Jesus said:" God dwells within you. His light shines from out of your eyes." What did he mean? Was he lying? Mistaken? Sounds pretty plain to me, and if the omniscience aspect, it is the only logical conclusion. God is inseparable from the spirit, and the spirit is inseparable from man. We are all the same thing. Jesus said "You are all gods" Geuss he screwed up saying that huh? Face it, Cag...a year and a half ago, I had to tell you where Genesis was in the bible...you should pack your peashooter and go home.
Would Jesus have had to make that statement if it were true for everyone? The spirit of God WILL NOT dwell in an unclean temple.
" Call not unclean that which has been cleansed." We can do this for the next thirty years...Not accepting his word is a denial of the spirit. If his death upon the cross was to take upon himself the sins of the world, why do you think he only removed the sins of certain ones? Paul taught that we are defiled from our birth, yet, Jesus said that children were the most blessed in all of heaven. You are too involved in Pauline doctrine, and I have nothing to say that would interest you. Peace
Drude, what he meant was health and introspection. The eyes are the windows of the soul. Haven't you looked at someone with strange eyes or evil eyes? "He has the evil eye" one might say. Or haven't you seen intelligence in one's eye. Surely, like Charles Krauthhaumer of Fox News, doesn't he look intelligent? Did you know that like exercise for the body, reading and working your mind hard actually will make you appear intelligent looking without you being aware? Proven study. It's true. Got work at it abit.
Inseparable is inseparable. Only in your mind does it sound like God is dwelling elsewhere if the temple is unclean. This is where literal interpretation falls short. This is where the spirit that dwells within will clear it up for you.
Actually, I was commenting last on the aspect that Cag only focuses on the biblical application, when he himself used biblical or otherwise spiritual terms in what he obviously intended to be secular introspection. I, as the kettle claim I am no blacker than he, the pot. When I speak of carbon based life...what is mystical to him? That all life is based on a lump of coal? Amazing, but it is true. Plants, animals, fish and birds...insects and bacteria too. All life is based on carbon, and energy is essential for all of it. Including big bangs and evolutions.
I don't focus only on biblical applications. Duh!
Apparently, as per usual, more BS from you.Prove it to be B.S. When it is I who is speaking, you invariably invoke the "MYSTICAL" Fact is, everything I say is based in science. Would you like to see my library?
Approximately 90% of the time you open your mouth and it's plastered all of the forums. I don't need to prove anything, least of to you.
Well, you're the one who originally claimed to be a mystic.
G/god is not science.
No thanks. It isn't necessary, but I do appreciate the offer.Did I claim that? Or did you assume it. And If God exists...then God is science.
Cagsil, you're the one who is irrationally hateful. Why do you need to torment genaea. Do you doubt your own beliefs? Does it matter whether she agrees with you? I read your posts and her response and it is not intellectual at all but just bash bash bash. Why? It seems that you hate her because she believes in God. If you do not believe in the bible of God, so what! Have confidence in your atheism. Be proud of it. Your beratement of her only makes her look good and makes you look bad.
Darkness and light do not exist together. If he hates the idea of God, he cant help himself. I have prayed. God is here. Thanks!
Darkness is nothing more than the absence of light. Of course, the two don't exist together, that's basic science.
The 'idea' of G/god isn't something I hate. What I do deal with is the irrationality of those who think that a G/god would have anything to do with the life of humans, especially, if it is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent, which the bible claims it's G/god is. And, I'm sorry to tell you, but those three things cannot, cannot exist inside one entity. It's not possible, not probable and most likely the entity has never existed. The paradox- omnipotent? Can G/god create a rock which HE cannot pick up?
My dear lady, I don't have a hateful bone in my body. I would even sacrifice my life for yours, if given the opportunity, so do tell me again how I'm irrationally hateful.
You know, didn't your parents bring you up properly? Or is your upbringing that has you twisted in thinking torment or persecution?
What beliefs? That's the problem with Christians and so many other people who lack understanding about their own life. You seem to think that almost everything stated by someone is a belief of some sort or just opinion.
No. She isn't required to agree with me.
Having yet another problem with your own reflection. If you're unable to have a conversation with you insinuating someone is hate-filled because they disagree with you or have knowledge you've yet to learn, then maybe you should get over yourself already and be done with it.
I would love to have an intellectual conversation with any religious person. The only problem is....most cannot deal with what is brought to the table for conversation and the spit nastiness, like you are now, because they cannot handle or grasp things outside themselves.
Actually, I love her just as much as I love you or any other person on this planet. Can you say the same? Would you sacrifice your life for a complete stranger? If not, so much for the love you supposedly learned.
I deal with the irrationality of the belief of a G/god existing. There's actually no need for it. And, now I'm going to tell you the same thing I tell a lot of other people.
Life doesn't require any knowledge of any G/god to be understood.
Life doesn't require any knowledge of any G/god to be lived.
Therefore, No G/god required. Get it?
Irrationality is dangerous.
I'm not an Atheist.
Proud? Are you serious? That's an ego driven action.
I'm sure it does, but since I'm still here and your supposed "beratement" is a lie. I'm attempting to deal with the irrationality of her nature.So glad this post is not for me. However, I realize that ego is the reason you (and others) break up the posts. You pick (rather nit-pick) through each point to ensure you spread "your" flavor thoroughly. It is so prideful. Actually, you (and others) are so full of self that God could NEVER penetrate!!! Time is getting short. Your understanding is too finite. Faith works better. You don't have to wrestle with the W's of life. Lean on his word and live. Or don't.
Actually you would be wrong on that account as well.
Untrue. I take your statements at face value, determine whether or not, they are irrational or rational....like seeing if they stand on their own, which most of the time with believers, most don't.
I'm not prideful at all and you wouldn't say that if you actually knew what I know.
Self? BS.
Actually, it's not.
I don't misplace my faith. The only true faith required is to have faith in yourself to discern true wisdom and faith in humanity.
I don't. I've answered every question ever asked. My hubs deal with it.
I understand Jesus' true teachings and if you leave out the mystical BS which existed until after the Dark Ages, then we wouldn't have a problem.
No need to, just like there's no need for the existence of a G/god.
I don't think so. I will go check though. It has been a long thread.
Here is the one you have not left a comment on?
Ok, so, where is he then, knocking? Inside you? That's a little literal, don't you think?
Knocking at that door in one's mind that negates God's existence. Like that little voice within that one cannot hear when self is thinking or talking.
Yes, but what happens if you decide that you no longer want the truth. Say, someone came along and whispered some stuff, in opposition to God' law in your heart, and you decided that it makes waaay more sense than what God says?
Then one is listening to 'self'. God is still there whispering so to speak and if we do not listen it is our choice. God doesn't go anywhere. The more we listen to self the less we can hear or discern which is which. This is where the book may be useful for some. The trouble can sometimes be though is they fail to look within to confirm what is taught via the book. They sometimes take what they are being taught by the leaders of certain faiths as law without confirming whatever with the God within. It only becomes major when a leader might advocate that we have to go to war in the name of God because God told the leader that they had to in order to please God. From what I have learned KKK are devout followers of the bible. In particular proverbs. Their logic is based on their faith that their translation of what proverbs means is correct. They falsely believe that their interpretation is in alignment with Gods will. This illustrates well how followers may not bother to confirm what their leaders advocate by using the God within.
The bible says, all that cry Lord, Lord are not his. People twist God's word all the time for self. Also, the bible says, to study so you won't be fooled. It is available for all. Not everyone can know about Jach's Yoshi, but everyone has access to the father, if they wish. ( his wish.)
My point was how people can often trip up in their translations of the bible because they do not use the God within.
Yes. They try to use other methods to reach him. They search in vain. There is one way to the father. And said "way" left instructions.
Never mind that the 'marked' way leads you headfirst into the mincing machine, just keep right on following the signs like a lost child. Steadfast faith is a strange thing, it required blinkers to ensure you don't look to the side to see what is going on, it places people 'above' you to tell you what to do - and it forbids you to look outside the narrow confines of your mental cell.
I don't care if you hear voices, and you think to know to be true what is proveably wrong, I do object to anyone trying to spread this nonsense to other childlike minds.So the instructions are not clear based on history and all the things done in the name of God.
The instructions are clear for God's children. He assured us of that.
Are we not all God's children? If not what might you mean by that?
The bible says that he knows his children and his children know him. Also, NOT everyone that (even) cries Lord! are his. You may feel differently about that, but I use the bible as my resource. It may not agree with the God in everybody, but it is the truth. I can't read the bible with a red marker. ALL of it is good. And will stand forever, as it always has. It does not change to suit us. We, however, change to suit it.
Okay so we are not all God's children in your opinion. Who determines who is Gods children and who is not? What is the point in anyone following God's word then if they are not God's children? If they are not his children the instructions will not be clear. It would be pointless if they can never know God. This makes no sense?
It becomes clearer when you study the bible. But you must study with the holy spirit as your guide; with empty and open heart ready to be filled with his spirit. He leads you and makes it plain in scripture.
When the bible says his children will know him it seems to be pointing to knowing the God within. You insist God lives only in the bible on one hand and then agree that God writes in the hearts of people. That you do not trust yourself to hear the God within I understand that you would refer back to the book but that does not mean all need to refer to the book. So are you advocating you cannot know God if you are not a child of God and if you do not refer to the book where you think God resides?
The bible says that God is everywhere at the same time. So he resides everywhere. Faith is key. This is where we get jumbled up in conversation with people who dont understand. Not inderstandable completely, i thought i heard you say something like that earlier today. The kingdom of God takes faith in the unknowable. I wonder if others would admit that they have the answers on EVERYTHING they ascribe to. Yet they persist in it. Why? Faith, of some sort. When the world searches for the answers to the questions about the beginning, they must have faith in their methods. Faith in the measuring equipment, faith in the formulas that came up with the answers and fairh in themsrlves. I, on the other hand, am nothing; and i do mean nothing, without God and his word. Jesus would not have to teach anything if he knew that God already was in everyone.
That still does not answer my questions? I understand God is everywhere. I am still curious about your understanding and if you cannot answer my questions ok. I said experience does not require faith. Cags went on to say that experience can reinforce that faith. I have no questions relating to where God is. I am fascinated about how you have arrived at the conclusion that not all are Gods children and who or what measures who is and who is not?
The bible says that God knows. His spirit bears witness to you that you are his. It is fascinating. God said that not all are his in the bible, really, i kid you not. He measures the heart.
Ok now that is the type of answer I was looking for. His spirit bears witness. In order to understand what the spirit is witnessing we would need a medium. Since God is everywhere the medium has many forms. The medium we all know well is the human mind. The human mind then relates what it receives as this or that. Some have chosen to write it down as they perceived these transmissions subject always to their perceptions and frames of references right? So the transmission is diluted in one way shape or form making one believe that God's children are a selected few. When in all reality we all are just some do not listen to the God within.
You speak as someone who rationalizes what is given from scriptire. I can only tell you what the scriptures say, because the God that lives in me, told me so. My words dont have the ability to cover anything. I just dont know enough on my own.
That doesn't answer my questions? Would you like to share how you understand it to be or not?
The bible says that God is everywhere. I keep answering you with scripture, as Jesus would have done. If Jesus felt he needed to teach, or spend the day at the temple, as a boy; or die on the cross. How is God in everyone already?
You reference to scripture is unrelated to my questions.
For instance:
I asked who determines who is God's children? Who determines who is and is not? You say...
"It becomes clearer when you study the bible. But you must study with the holy spirit as your guide; with empty and open heart ready to be filled with his spirit. He leads you and makes it plain in scripture"
This did not answer my question.....
So an answer might be....Scripture says his children will know him and those that do not know him are not his children.
But it does not say that does it. All it says is his children will know him right?The bible says his children know his voice and follow him, as sheep know their shepherd.
Yes when they hear it. If they do not hear that does not make them not a child of God.
How's that? If God says, my children will know my voice, then how can we all be his children. In that case he would have said, all hear my voice, right?
No that is what is meant by knocking on the door. We don't always hear that knock. So do you reckon God does not knock at every door and only knocks at the door of Gods children? If you have already heard Gods knock because you are a child of God why would God bother knocking? If you haven't heard the knock does that mean God is not knocking and you are not a child of God, so too bad?
That is a good question. Alls I know is. I belong to God. I need to search the scriptures to answer this, you search too. This is your question. Probably better answered by God himself. However, my words are no good. My wisdom is tied to God. By the way, there are about 7-8 mysteries unsolved by today's scientists. God knows everything about it all. Now, how, if God makes us as himself, could that be?
We have finite minds that do not understand what is infinite in nature. We can only understand within our minds ability to let go of the limitations we place on it. I would say there are far more mysteries than 7 or 8. We live in a universe that is highly unexplored and unexplained currently. Since it is expanding it would be an ongoing quest to solve the 99% that is mysterious.
And the passage that will explain the presence of God within and in all will be Ephesians 4.6
'One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all'Well he did create us all. But not all of us are in his family. What happens when we turn away from him in us?
In all, is in all. We choose or we choose not to acknowledge God. I doubt anyone who has experienced God within will reject God. If they do it is their choice not to listen.
You did not answer. What happens when we decide our way is better, and we are tired of this God-thing whispering in our hearts. Some have experienced God and still turn away. What happens?
We live according to self. Does that answer your question?
No, so where is God while are selfish? Living right there being selfish too? No, his presence leaves you. You now live in opposition. Not a good look.
No God is still there. Kinda like the right brain left brain. Some are dominated by the left side (logic and reasoning) some are dominated by the right side (creativity, intuition etc). Most tasks require both to a greater or lesser degree. If one side only existed certain functions cease and we cannot exist how we know how to exist. The brain is one brain that have different functions. That is the same with God and Self. If one did not exist certain functions would cease. God and Self are one that function differently. Does that make any sense to you?
Will try explaining this way.
The left side of the brain is logic, reasoning, intelligence.....IE Self (Knowledge where self makes distinctions between good and bad, dark and light, duality then)
The right side of the brains is creativity, intuition, imagery, extra sensory perception...IE God (All that is, Eveywhere, At one with all things)
These functions belong to the one brain. Each side of the brain is connected by the corpus callosum...IE holy spirit
Together they function well. Sever the corpus and we function differently.
Any clearer?Yes, now you're talking flesh, which definitely works in opposition if we dont have God's spirit. The corpus collie thingy is cartilage or something not spirit.
An analogy of how God can dwell in the one temple.
Not a good analogy. Light does not coexist with darkness, a biblical analogy, is better. Once there is light, no more darkness within the light.
When you go into a dark room and turn on the light does the darkness go away? No it just appears that way, because when you turn the light off the darkness is still there. So they are co-existing even if we cannot see them co-existing. It is the nature of our logical mind to not believe that darkness is still present.
Now that Penny, is so logical that my spirit does not understand. For, once my eyes see light, dark room bye-bye. Just ask my 4yr old. Also, i think Jach was rooting for you on that post. You sounded just like he and his friends. I wanna be salty, remember?
So are you saying darkness goes somewhere else when the light is on and comes back when the light is off? Jacharless could relate to my posts yes. I find that a good thing if I sounded like he and his friend. Do you not? You are salty do you think you are not salty? Some like more salt than others we all like different flavours.
Yes, that is EXACTLY what I am saying. The darkness goes somewhere when the light comes on. Where? Maybe Jach knows. I ask to be as salt because that is what Jesus asked for. A different flavor will not suffice. I kind of feel as if this conversation has been salted by my input, and for that, i am extremely grateful. I need my words to be flavored with the words of God. And let me add that it does not matter what we like, God knows best. The bible does say that his thoughts areNOT our thoughts. He sees all the channels. We only clearly see one.
Well it doesn't go anywhere or cease to exist it is only altered. So the properties that make darkness still exist just in a different way. Maybe the scientific mind can explain it scientifically. I assure you though it goes no where. Just as God goes no where when the temple is unclean. Did God say something about how salty one is supposed to be? No, all God said according the bible is when you lose that savor. How do you know what is best if you are not listening to the God within. Your best would then be selfs assessment of what is best or another's self assessment of what is best. Like refers to desires of the self.
How do you know the difference between God's voice within, and your own voice?
The same way you know the difference between darkness and light.
You cheated:) there is no difference according to you.
Where did I say there was no difference? I said they can co-exist and illustrated my point. Just as I illustrated with the brain analogy. Just because darkness appears to not exist does not mean it is not existing.
Ok sounds interesting. So, what does Jesus mean when he says that he is the light of the world and if you follow him, you won't have to walk in darkness? Please, tell me what you think?
Walking in the light is awareness, walking in the dark unawareness. Jesus was aware of his connection with God IE I am the light of the world. I and my father are one type thing. Follow Jesus's teachings and you too will find the light that you are.
Unfortunately, the example Penny gave you, you dismissed because it didn't suit your belief of light and darkness.
In Penny's example, it co-exists with a dark light, which illuminates but doesn't eliminate the darkness completely.
Not true. You can see the dark, in a lighted room by a dark light required for processing film.
Darkness exists...it is the absence of light. But, as James demonstrated- The Universe is dark, but is lit up by the Stars in the sky. Both co-exist.Well, you dismiss the fact that once light enters, no more darkness. Now how did you think of that? I can tell you for sure, when i turn on my lights at home, darkness is nonexistent within that space. This is so simple, but when self enters the equation you rationalize something so basic. I can see that self is a hinderance so clearly here. You said yourself that darkness is the ABSENCE of light. Do you see your confusion yet? As for your last (character) response: i was speaking of the one and only channel (another analogy) that we can clearly see and should know all about, self. God sees every channel (the BIG picture) therefore, knows better than I how I should live. He knew that i would not hear him every time he speaks so he left written instructions so that i would not be fooled into thinking that light and darkness are one. They are not. My bible told me. Now, who do you think I will believe?
Ok, God wants us to be "bright" lights. He said it at the end of the "salty" statement. Didn't you hear him? Or were you distracted by your godself?
It is absent to the naked eye. However the properties of darkness contain the properties of light or you would not be able to convert darkness into light and vice versa. Each is present within the other. When you see light you see altered properties when you no longer see light you see altered properties. Does that make sense or no?
So where do you think the darkness goes when you turn on the light? Does it just disappear and cease to exist until we are ready for it to exist again or what?
It's called getting an education.
Yes, under a normal light. However, if you look beyond that room, you will see darkness where there is no light.
And you inserted your self into the equation in order to dismiss what was stated as it was stated. That' my dear is called Ego. Good show.
Yes, you hinder yourself when you take things completely out of context.
Darkness still exists outside the boundary of light's reach. Something you're refusing to pay attention to.
Actually, yet again inserting your ego I see. It's always pretty when people insert things which they don't understand, and claim understanding. Good show yet again.
Yes, you don't use G/god as you've claimed throughout this thread. It's pure ego and nothing else. Good show yet again.
They are not one. Duh!
Stupidity in motion is what you will belief. I'm just pointing it out the fact that you're uneducated on the difference.Yes. But, i know that God knows. His word says that I don't have to. "cast all your care on him..."see, God's spirit gives me rest when others are scrambling to find the meaning of life. He allows me to be SURE of what I'm saying because of his spirit that lies within me. I don't have to search this hisyorical record, poking into his business. I bet science is totally off-base on a vast amount of theories. This world is God's. A lot of miraculous things have happened here. Man scrambles to figure out the unfigurable. But hey, he has free will, he may spend his time the way he wishes.
The scriptures do say that he will NOT dwell in an unclean spirit. Ok, ill wait for one more, my eyes just crosses;) gotta pick it up after sleep. Do you realize we spent the night together? Lol
How can anything be mysterious to us? God knows everything.
God knows everything. Everything is infinite in nature. Do we understand infinite? No. Infinite describes what we do not yet know because our finite mind limits the information we are privy to. The logical mind would reject infinity because it cannot explain being everywhere all at once. It can explain how everything is connected.
Right. God knows it all. We yet are learning a portion of a piece for a lifetime . The dpirit of God lives in us only when we ask it to. God allows us a choice.
No God lives in us period. We decide to either listen or not. If you ask better still. More often than not one does not need to ask .
The bible says, ask, and it shall be given, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened unto you.
...if I continue nodding like this, my neck is going to snap. lol.
Haha
I can relate. Your posts have the same effect on me lol
That's an interesting idea "the bible says to study so you won't be fooled". If only this worked in practice. What actually happens is that people "study" the bible through the coloured lenses of what they are told it means by their church leaders and travelling ministers. Only by coming outside of the church can one hope of studying the bible objectively.
Throughout its history the church has tried all maner of tactics to prevent people from studying the bible objectively; oh how they fear that people will come to believe something different from their orthodoxy. How many times have you accused someone of twisting scripture because they see something that doesn't line up with what you have been indoctrinated with. For example, you would find it easier to close your eyes and mind to the concept of a world without satan or universal salvation, rather than putting aside everything you have ever been taught about what the bible means to study it with objective fresh eyes yourself. If you read a passage and something jumps out to you like a spark of inspiration, you would believe the HS was speaking to if it lined up with your church doctrines, but if it didn't you would quickly ignore it as erroneous or of Satan.Surely your head is not disappearing
i know that my testimony about that has been given. I am from the church, yes. I grew up right there on the front pew. It was an experience. We churched much more than the average Christian. I now realize why. During that time, i saw a lot of activity that did not align with God's word. They taught it wrong a lot. I used a fresh eye after praying to God to help me understand. Haven't been to church in years. Can't stand another, " bring me, i mean God yo ten percent" sermon. He has used dreams, quick confirmations that he is with me. For instance, i will ponder and ponder a word i received and some one will come and give me uninvited interpretation of that same word i pondered. And my dreams are the best confirmation. I once had an extremely prophetic dream 3 nights in a row!!! I polled my family. That has never happened to any of them. I feel i am firmly connected to the father because he constantly reminds me. The dream is coming to into fruition as we speak. It is so amazing. God has always been with me. He just waited for my yes.That sounds good in theory, and works for some. Unfortunately, and I think reading through Hub Pages forums will attest to this, there are a lot of people who ditch church and forge ahead with their own research...thinking the are now objective.
I think the worst thing church did was teaching them the concept that the Holy Spirit guides their interpretation. It is like a black hole that sucks out any ability to be objective and puffs them up to the point that they believe themselves mini metatrons.
Leaving the church helps people such as yourself to grow. Those not ready simply devolve into personal fantasy. These forums have shown me that forces need to work to change the structure of the churches from the inside. Charismatic fools being allowed to teach the young are a serious problem.
Um, that is not true. Darkness and light coexist in you. Furthermore, have you ever looked up at the night sky? Darkness certainly exists with light. Even further, darkness is simply a lack of complete illumination. Darkness is not evil by any means.
James.Thank you for the night sky juxtaposition. Them tiny stars do a little something for that darkness, right? No longer dark, for now, light appears. Good one. Darkness and light do not mix. For once there is light...(come on thinkers.) hey... Didn't you say that you were done here???
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Granddad said, say what you mean, mean what you say. Pastor said, if you dont say so much, you don't have so much to take back.
Oh? Listen, send me your "Pastors" info, would love to chat with him!
As for grand dad: many, many blessings and endless years upon him, should he still be able and may his wisdom be that of Creators age! My utmost respect to him.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Jesus said:
Ye have heard that it was said; thou shall love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you (Emile:) Love thy neighbor. Bless them that curse you. Do good to them that hate you. And pray for them (Jach, Cas) that despitefully use and persecute you.
We do have instructions. There is more, read all about it!!! when we belong to God, we begin a transformation that makes us more like him. Because, we are not born with his nature. We must put it on and wear it adding more and more "garmets" to your "outfit" until he comes. - genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Beside that, he said his children would follow. Now, we dont all follow, or even try.
When they hear is voice. Some have not heard it yet?
He didnt say, some of my children will hear my voice.
Yes that is correct he said my children will know. They first have to hear the voice.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
We cant even all agree that he is right. Some of us arr waiting for an "explanation" why we must.
No some do not understand the voice or the nature of God is all. And then you have those who are waiting for God to come to the world on a Cloud or something magical like that. When the kingdom of God is within man. We will be waiting a long time if we expect external confirmation of what is within and what God is.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
The Lord loves us ALL. He desires that we dll choose him. In his indinite wisdom, he knows that man's heart becomes hardened; not all will say yes to HIS will. Our will makes more sense to some of us.
No not all will that is true and evident now and historically.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Has anyone ever knocked on your door, asking for entrance, from the inside?
In a sense yes. I was very young when I recognized it. It has been with me ever since.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Is it true that once you know something, you can then un-know it just as easily?
Was it easy to know? If yes, then yes easy to un-know. If not then no not easy to un-know.
Are you kidding? Is it "easy" to know what Jesus said?
No, why would I be kidding?. I was referring to general knowledge. If that is not what you meant ok. You did not however make it clear you were referring to what Jesus taught because you posted two different posts.
Yes it is easy to know what Jesus taught because it is already within you. Let knowledge go while discerning what his teachings meant and it is easy because you are discerning with the God within.Ahh, let knowledge go. Hmmm. Have you let "knowledge" go? Or, does it consume you as you ponder?
If it is "easy" to know what Jesus taugh, then it is easy to un-know. If one comes along and gives you the formula for how light and darkness coexist, and you buy it, you no longer believe Jesus when he says that they do not. Rationalizing the words of Jesus is just about as dangerous as not knowing them at all. Lean not unto thine own understanding. We just don't got enough brains to argue with the words of Jesus. He really rebuked the pharisees and scribes for "making better sense" of the scriptures. Jesus said to follow his commands. They are available. They are solid, and will stand forever. Just read all the red words of the bible. That is where i started my journey. I needed to know how Jesus spoke. I had to get to know his voice. If you are not convinced that his words agree with the spirit within you, great, right. If they don't agree, what have you lost? You at least know what Jesus taught.What knowledge are you talking about that you let go of? I am talking about learned knowledge. Your statements are vague all of a sudden? Yes it is easy to know what Jesus taught and if it is knowledge alone and not experienced from within it can easily be un-known. Experiencing God within is not so easy to let go of. Where did God say he cannot co-exist with you? You seem to have ignored all the passages that point to the God dwelling within or the spirit within or anything showing that Gods kingdom is within you. Yet you claim you are connected through your dreams?
Where did the first light come from? Out of the darkness. What does that tell you? Light existed in the darkness. What does rationalizing the words of Jesus mean for you? Ignoring what Jesus clearly points to?
I am not sure where you want to go with this because we have come full circle. If you do not understand what it is I have been saying ok
You say that you have learned to recognize Gods voice through what is learned in the bible. So it appears you only hear Gods voice within and can only recognize God if it is in alignment with what you read (learned knowledge). Which would appear why you do not hear the God within all the time and why you would believe God does not exist if the temple is unclean Ok.
Your understanding is yours. Nothing wrong with that. If someone elses understanding does not agree with your's it doesn't matter. We all have different views.Yes, i understand.
You must ask him to come in. You must ask with a willingness to do things his way. His word will last forever. The words that you speak sound foreign to me. I must admit that i really didn't understand it all.
As i stated, the Lord confirms that I am his. Before my prophetic dream, there was another. Two years before my daughter was born, i dreamed of her. Her personality was so vivid in my dream. It is recorded. I wrote her father a letter about her the morning after. He was able to bear witness to the relationship that I have with my father. The Lord confirms and confirms and confirms that i belong to him. Your voice sounds like my hs science teacher. I hear God often, it just does not sound the same. You are upset by the vagueness of my words, or are you concerned that it forces you to now think with the rationality of Jesus, our living example of what God wants from us?How have you come to the conclusion that I am in some way upset? That is your perception I can do little about. Take a look at your previous posts.
You asked
"Is it true that once you know something, you can then un-know it just as easily?"
then I replied
Was it easy to know? If yes, then yes easy to un-know. If not then no not easy to un-know.
then you went on to say
"Are you kidding? Is it "easy" to know what Jesus said?"
Where in that question was Jesus mentioned? Is that not being vague to you or not? If not how am I meant to interpret that you were referring to what Jesus taught when you used the word something?
Unless you were answering a completely different post see below
You asked...
"How do we know what Jesus taught?"
To which I answered
Is that a trick question.
There was no reply from you.
If that is not being vague. Then perhaps you would like to describe how I should have read your posts?
I don't need to rationalise Jesus, why would you think I need to? I do not rely on the bible, you do. I would have thought you have figured that out by now. If not ok .
If you need a witness to assure you that you are connected to God ok.
Why all the questions then?How do we know what Jesus taught? It was not a trick and i was baffled at the question. It was a question that should have should have illuminated the bible because that is the only recording of what he taught. If God speaks it within everyone, there is no darkness in the world, for God is the father of lights. Is there darness? Yes. But, you just said that a thief has God within him. It seems like blasphemy to me. Your assessment of me and the words of Jesus, illuminate what you believe in your heart to be true. Full circle it is. Take care
Of course I knew you knew that, so why did you ask then? That is why I asked if it was a trick question? What is baffling about that. You asked a question you already knew the answer to. It made no sense.
When the bible says: One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
What gives you the perception that you must exclude the thief from the 'in you all'? What gives you the perception that you must exclude the thief from Father of all? Only in your mind can that happen. Does not necessary mean it is true. Self has a funny way of excluding what it wants from "all".
You limit God when you exclude God from places you do not believe God exists.Dont you see that God and Jesus (same spirit) tell you where God exists? As a "letter" to God's children, the bible speaks to them. He is the father of all of his children, he dwells within all of his children. Since you say that we dont need the bible,.then we don't need the life-giving words that Jesus spoke. There is only one way to the father. How do we follow him if we dont know what he says??? Jesus rebuked the men that went against him. He told them that they were unfit and none if his. Jesus knows what he is talking about.
The bible tells you where God exists yet you insist on not believing what the bible tells you. Why is that do you think? We have already been through that. But your mind appears to be stuck on God only existing where you perceive God to be existing. Therefore limiting God.
The God within me actually agrees with what the bible says about where God exists.
If you do not understand what Jesus or the bible says, I cannot help you with that. Only you can find your own understanding. So far you believe you have and so be it.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
A thief comes but for to kill, steal, and destroy. Is he of God? Does God's light live within him? Puleeez dont say yes.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Anyone who does not have the spirit of Christ does not belong to him. That is in Romans. So, someone, obviously with the spirit of God, from your account, made this statement, and it was allowed among the words of Jesus. Do upu believe that you will read that a thief is God's child in the bible? The bible mentions the word thief and it is not described as godly. So, two in one, there are those"without the spirit of Chtist, and, not everyone belongs to him.
You need to read the whole of that Romans chapter it reveals the deeper meaning. The carnal mind is in opposition to God. (death) The mind of Spirit works with God.(life of peace) We are not flesh it goes on to say but spirit. Those that do not follow with spirit are not following Christ. So those who do not follow the God within are following the mind of flesh.It is the spirit within we should seek. Which is what we were covering in our dialogue.
I refer you back to in all, through all, and above all passage.
It excludes no one and nothing. You just perceive it that way. If the thief chooses to follow the mind of flesh that does not mean the spirit is not dwelling within the thief. It only means the thief is following the mind of flesh, and not following the spirit within. It clearly says we are not flesh but spirit.And you clearly are not saying what Jesus said.
What you say is true, Gods children, who walk not after the flesh are God's children. The bible says in several places that there are those who are not his. No matter hiw we grapple with that fact, it is still fact. From one side, you say the bible is not necessary, yet, you quote from it to "so-call" prove your point. It is so with many of the posters on this thread. So be sure, you have not proven an example of the salt that I speak of. You sound like everyone else. Jesus made a difference wherever he went. Not a similar-ence. You cannot be lukewarm. All of his word accepted, or none.In your understanding probably not. You seem to understand God as most do. Limiting God to what can fit into a finite mind. I can do little about that.
I said not all need the bible. You say the bible lives. If the only way you understand God is through the bible why would I not make points from the bible? What is in the bible is written in the hearts of man. You said this yourself. Now what are you saying?
Who was trying to prove anything? You asked questions I answered. If you don't like the answers you get, don't ask.
Were you trying to prove something? If so, what is it you are trying to prove?
Who said Jesus did not make a difference?I am no longer trying to prove anything. The scriptures are plain. Jesus said what happens to those who do not follow his commands. His commands were written for a reason. Gods word does not return unto him void so if you say what he says, you don't get confused by your own darkness. But he does not force us to see it his way. His children will hear his voice and follow. The others run away.
If the scriptures are clear, how come you don't understand them? IE.... Above all, through all, in all. What is hard to understand about that? It cannot be that clear because you have made out 'all' to mean something other than what it does mean. You have made 'all' to mean 'all except who you think God should not be in'. How come you limit where God is, by saying he is not in the thief? If you hear God's voice you will follow what God says. All is all.
You are not saying what God says. You are saying what you believe God to be saying. You are right God does not force us and if you persist in following the mind of flesh, no one or God can do anything about that.Reading the rest of that scripture will reveal the deeper meaning. This was a letter to the church. One body of believers (in you all). Jesus went from below to above and spread himself throughout the earth. He is father of all things in heaven and earth. Every knee shall bow. It just hasn't happened yet. Just look at how we argue with his words. We cry, yeah Jesus we heard you say no darkness in the light but my science teacher said...
We must come to him and take him at his word to be considered his. Now and forever.You have not heard what Jesus said. The meaning is not revealing itself to you because it seems it is learned knowledge that you cling to.
I must cling to the words of Jesus. So there is our problem and why there is such a gulf between us. We speak of different Gods.
You are not clinging to Jesus words. They are your own that you are clinging to. Read the previous posts? There is no gulf between us except in your mind. There is difference in understanding but no gulf unless you make one. We are not speaking of different Gods. Remember there is only one. Or is there more for you?
Only one true God. I have heard him on/off from you. God's children say what he says and they can be sure to be truthful. I do not understand??? Did you come here to tell me so?
Well that is clear that you don't understand. Why would you think I came to do anything?
If you can get her to understand that point, I'll be impressed.
Depressed is not the opposite of impressed.
Your self imposed blinders are keeping you from seeing the truth.I will agree that we are all blind in some way. The difference between you and me is that I know this.
I know what I know and you know what you know, and together we know that I know that, and you know that too.
Now that was funny.
But why mock? Say your piece and go. Why must you try to force me to see things your way? The title of the thread has to do with Christians making a difference. And for the last few hours, i am the only one saying. Different. This is by design. I accept my task.You did say you wanted to hear from all willing participants. Was that a lie, or did you not understand what you were typing at the time?
Uh yeah, but i asked one question. We have talked about everything. God, i mean Jesus stated that Christians are to be as salt. I wanted to know how. My God has shown me first-hand. Cant wait to tell the flock.
Well, that implies you never expected a dialogue, since you think God told you first hand. Why are you here?
What do you mean? Oh, you didn't read. God has shown me what salt looks like through this conversation. That is why i am here. That is why you came too. God is amazing.
I've read backwards through the thread to get to this point. You honestly believe you were placed here by God to argue foolish points in order to show how religious salt works? You mentioned something about not being able to wait to tell the flock. Call me a glutton for ridiculous scenarios, but I'd love to be a spectator at that conversation. Somehow, I don't doubt you'd have to fudge all of the facts in order to garner any respect for your actions; since I do have respect for the intelligence of humanity.
I suspect the thread was created just to be heard and spread the gospels according to how she thinks it should be understood. This thought never crossed my mind until Jacharless bought it to the fore and I am glad he did. It could have been another 20 some pages before I realized this lol.
In my opinion it did not achieve anything except reveal her lack of understanding in her own faith. Too sad.Mornin' Emily!
i am still awake. Don't read the posts backward. Read as it was discussed. I only wanted feedback and the Lord gave me much more. As we all are, I am a writer. I mainly write to God's children. I wanted to convey an opportunity to tell about the love of Christ to those who don't know, those who will listen. So, telling the flock, is my way of saying that i can't wait to write a letter to God's children about my quest to find a more effective witness of the love of God. This has been an interesting journey.I read it backwards since that was the easiest. It appears as if this thread is stuck in first gear. No one ever had a meeting of the minds on any point, that I can see.
I have to tell you it pains me to see how obstinantly you fight against others. I don't think you realise this, but there is much agreement. An analogy might help. When I was a kid I was a wiz at math. I didn't understand a word the teacher said. I had to take the problems and come to an understanding on my own. I got perfect scores on every test, be it calculus, geometry or basic math. Other kids were, understandably, irritated when the teacher praised me. She saw me as a testimony to her teaching prowess. I secretly considered her to be a failure because she hadn't found the correct angle to help students visualize what she was attempting to teach.
And that is, to me, how life works We are all different. We see things differently. We have to approach things from an angle we can understand. And if we don't accept that others must do the same and attempt to understand that angle we are as ineffective as my high school math teacher.Not to purposely sound like a broken record, but i say what Jesus said. It is just that simple. No thinking involved. Thank uou for your example,yes, now we are getting somewhere. How may we approach someone who goes not know the voice of God within him, and help him to hear God, without all the silly quarreling? Goin to bed now:) see you later
What you fail to do is to give room for other thoughts on the matter of what Jesus said and meant. And, you are right; there is no thinking involved in such an obstinate stand.
Others don’t come into the thread to mock God or malign Jesus. They take a different view. Others are here because their understanding of the meaning of the message of Jesus is different by their observation, reflection and experience. Their understanding of the meaning of the actions of Jesus is different from your understanding. They haven’t turned their back on God or Jesus; they embrace their understanding of the universe as a whole.
You ask how to approach someone who doesn’t hear God within them speaking? I would answer they already hear the voice. They already know the voice exists; whether they appear to be acting in harmony or opposition and whether they label it the same as you. They already have access, but allow their personal thoughts and their perception of the world they live in to block their hearing.
We rarely act in this lifetime. We react to the world around us. We react to our perception of the words and actions of others. So, if you want to be a beacon of light I’d say stop reacting to your perception of anything within the physical world. Be a reflection of the voice within. Not in words, in actions. If you hear the voice of God and you are truly reflecting people will want to come to a better understanding. Because your actions would line up in harmony with that inner voice we all have. When your actions are in direct conflict with our inner voice; people see it as what it is. Your personal perception of the world. Not a universal truth.My actions are not known to a person that i have just now encountered. How do they know when they meet me if my actions are good? How do they distinguish a child of God from a "nice" person?
Good is not always what motivates nice.
But, you are right. We don’t know the actions of a stranger. Which is why we should begin with the premise that each person we encounter is a ‘child of God’ as you put it. Look for the good first; always. And respond with the good that is in us.
As long as you insist that some are children of God and some aren’t you can’t let the good shine through. You begin every exchange searching out and trying to find a way to judge and separate. Using the term ‘child of God’ like a grappling hook; desperately attempting to claw your way to the top of the spiritual heap.Emile, i am no clawer. I will let you go first. In my heart, andaccordingtothebible, you are more special. He came for you. He came to walk and talk with you. He spoke life upon a dying situation. My words are so laced with scripture because it is mostly what I think about. I want to know how to access this Love of which he speaks so highly. This way, my distractions are few. My eyes are fixed. I am no longer searching in darkness. I see clearly. I know that if i mimic my savior as much as I possibly am able, accepting grace, when I stumble, i am safe in his arms. However, you may go and explore the world along with your inner truth. You choose. I will be right here. Saying the same things. I have a feeling these words won't go out of style.
Unfortunately, every time you say someone else is not a child of God you have bared your claws and show you are trying to raise yourself up, at the expense of others. It is fine to speak humbly, but when you don't couple that with humble actions they become empty words. When, in the next breath, you argue that others are separated from God it is an example of speaking with a forked tongue.
Thanks for the honest assessment, but i dont't want your limes either. Jesus saw clearly who was and was not. He always allowed one to hear that teir words do not match what the father said. His claws and fangs are words. His words represent life. He told us what the truth was not as well. Is it not clear to you that the father is being raised? I am nothing, i say again with a smile. If it had not been for the Lord on MY side...i would be dead. He kept me alive for one purpose. You all are children. But you have turned away from the truths of the matters, to Scientific whatucansees. Lean on Jesus, if you will. He did it all. All we have to do is repeat and repeat.
I thought we had made progress. That pleased me immensely. I thought you said? You are all God's children. but you only called us children instead. Oh well, what do they say? 'You can lead a horse to water'.
It's funny how you keep bringing science up when no one else does. Is science your enemy? Do you think, if science didn't exist it would be easier to drag everyone down the dark road?
Whatever you believe, I'm sure it serves a purpose. The only harm done would be to people who bought into your narrow view. I doubt you'd be spending so much time attempting to convince us if you were in a position to do much damage in the real world. Luckily, for both of us, there are several people posting in this thread that are wiser and more well spoken than we are. They've done a fine job of pointing out the weakness in your understanding. It's been an interesting read.I am being discussed among men???
ok. I am not a scholar. In the body of Christ, there are different parts. I have my position. I am not intimidated by your assessments of me. This lesson is about the words of Christ and their importance. I am learning. We have taken many turns. I can only say what is given to my spirit,based upon your feedback. The Lord speaks to us all during these exchanges. I am not perfect. I stand behind the one who is. He is available to all who hear his voice. Find him however you wish. I believe that the words of Jesus, cover my flaws. I speak his words.
Several times in the NT it says he is coming exactly like a thief: unexpectedly and takes what he wants, regardless of who/what is there. All things are of God and are His. Both thieves hung to Y`shua left and right, yet the one on the right {actually and metaphorically} rebuked the other, saying they received their reward for the work of their own hands. And He emphatically said to the kosher thief: today you have received salvation. So, the light does live in the thief, as it lives in the giver. Light and Darkness were created by Him, and are His to do whatever He desires. He is both darkness and light; morning and light, truth and untruth. Darkness is the unseen, what is not clearly illuminated or understood. Untruth {aka lies} are simply the misunderstanding of the Word {the Truth} in the human mind, those thoughts muddled, not properly flowing that information, not kosher -defined: proper, clean, correct, in alignment}. Their minds are opposed to the Truth already put in them. Who created ha-satan and is ha-satan to those who deny the truth? "For the lord will go between them and hedge their way with thorns", "I put enmity between..." Yes, the Lord himself. He is darkness to those in darkness and is the blinder/hardener of hearts. He is the light to those who walk in the light, the giver of all life.
"For he breathed into man the breath of life." ..."and life was the light in man".
No human would exist if Creator were not in them.
"...and darkness covered the expanse." He is the Darkness.
"...and said." He is His Word.
"...let their be..." He commands His Word.
"...light and there was..." His Words shake both heaven and earth, do not return void and accomplish what He sent them to do, illuminating and hiding whatever He said.
As he said, "The light shines on the darkness, but the darkness does not understand."
A blind man in a dark room does not know he is blind until light shines. When light shines, he squints and puts his hand/a veil over his face, because it is too bright. He holds his ears because the Voice is like thunder, too loud. Just as the people of Israel covered the face of Moshe who had seen God; just as the priests covered The Presence, with a thick curtain; just as they stopped their ears when the Trumpet of the Messenger spoke into their darkness; just as the twin-edge sword which blocked the Way to the Tree of Life, pierced them to the core, to burn up their darkness with unquenchable purifying fire.
James.By the time i get to the end, I am wondering what you said. If you belong to God, you believe every word that Jesus spoke. Jesus said, once you have him, you no longer walk in darkness. You say, well, yes you do...sort of. Sounds like opposition to me.
If you belong to God as you put it you would not be walking in darkness and you would have understood what Jacharless was pointing to. I like how you disregard posts you do not understand.
If you saw a movie ten times, and each time you saw it, another aspect of the story unveils itself. '2001: A Space Oddysey.' by Arthur Clarke was like that. So is the bible, wouldn't you be way more impressed with how well crafted it was. The bible can even sound like 'Star Wars'. In fact, every story ever told can be based in biblical stories...even 'Moby Dick' At this moment in time, and it's been so for awhile, we exist as the number one strangest creature to ever come down the proverbial pike. We have single handedly (or not) removed ourselves from our position in the food chain, removed ourselves from 'natural selective evolutionary processes' and taken into our own hands the continued development of the species MAN. (or not). We have absolutely no proof that there are any interstellar visitors anywhere, let alone coming here to pay social calls, yet, the story of Moses sounds a lot like 'Close Encounters Of The Third Kind'. To think that thousands of people throughout history, at different times, in different places, sometimes with hundreds of witnesses, aren't experiencing something very real and solely human. We are weird, mankind. Any one who doesn't see that is blind. Something more which has only really been hinted at in our history, is, and has been, and will continue to occur. There is a time when we are all supposed to fully understand that great mystery. Buddha called it enlightenment, and others have different names for it. All it is is understanding where we fit into the grand scheme, and is Big Brother really watching. We are directly connected to the universe. There is no way to sever that connection. It is useless to try. It is a waste of time. If that prime energy is God, if that prime energy has consciousness, if that prime energy is all that it is said to be....relax. Resistance is futile...no assimilation necessary...we will self assimilate, and then, be one with that prime energy. Or not.
With a closed mind, finding God is impossible. Atheists close their minds to God. They close their hearts to God. If everyone's hearts were open...no sacrifice would have been necessary, because, ultimately, it is the evil we do to each other which God counts as sin. When you sin against your fellow man, you sin against God. If I would that you not touch me, to touch me against my will is a sin, not just of my being.
Once your heart is opened by the word, it seeps into your mind as you try what Jesus said, and learn it to be true. There is no other way unto the father but by Jesus' name alone. His words give you life, his death gives you life, not all that you can understand. Jesus, the main example of God's children; God's first-born speaks then, now, and forevermore. Only his children listen, and follow. The others dont recognize his voice because they have been searching for him within. You must seek him to find him. We are born of sin that our ancestors committed.
There you go again. Jesus did not say the way to the father is in his name. Read it again. Read further on too and you might get it or not.
Hence, DD, why I continue to repeat: atheists and Christians are identical.
So, sorry, that is inadmissible. If its is not in the bible, its not Gods word, right?. All or nothing -your words, Eve, not mine.
lol. I already used that line, Eve.
Try to a bit more original. This is supposed to be FUN.
{ps, you remind me of another Hubber goes by the name Brenda Durham. Sweet woman, skewed by precisely the same book-is-all concept.}
Though it takes a big ego to feel like the words of God need altering and adulteration. God knows who his children are. And in his word, he tells us hiw to pick them out. You know a tree by it's fruit. No Jach-berries for me, thank you.
To know the Words of Creator is to live them, to experience them, not read them from books. Nearly every word in the bible since its creation 600 years ago has been altered. For over 6163 {Hebrew Calendar accepted} but actually longer, there was no bible, no Torah, no Tanakh. How do you justify that and justify the many, many books, letters etc purposely left out of the first compiled version. And the words "adulterate" etc which you say, are just memorized sound bites from that book, or the preachers. Are you telling me you are iodized salt and not kosher salt, Eve?
Salt is salt in my example. You speak with confidence the origination of the text. With whom have you left your faith. You did not see anyone take out anything. Or maybe you actually were there when they removed them, with your spirit must come eternal life. Were you there walking to and fro seeking too...?
*note to self- b**ch slap yourself for responding to stupidity in motion*Would you like the links to the items?
Ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls?
Esdras 1 & 2 Esdras, Maccabees 1 - 4, Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, Epistle of Jeremiah, Susanna, Prayers of Azariah and Manasseh, Jubilees, Letter to the Laodiceans, Gospel of Tomas, Psalms and Odes of Solomon, The Testimony of the Children of Israel (the 12 Patriarchs), plus Enoch's dreams {the birth of paganism} and even the gospel of Mary Magdalene {which has actually been found, but parts are missing/destroyed from weather}. Some have even considered the Account of Adam & Eve post Paradise to be authentic, yet not included.Something sounds dead about that word. Hmmm, nevermind. Obviously to me, God's child, the word is dead for a reason. Could they have been scripts known to be false at the time, therefore discarded into the sea for nosy generations searching to discredit the words of Jesus??? I'm just sayin'. I mean i was not there. Were you?
Many of them are in Hebrew Torah, still.
The Sophia of Y`shua Moshiach was found in three languages, yet completely dismissed from the canon.
And no, neither of us were. Which is precisely my point from jump street: the bible is inadequate for instructions on Eternal Life. If accurately stated, by Y`shua, the entire text is simply pointing to the Events surrounding the Work - the Will -which was proved by the First to be revealed as Eternal flesh, and many more to come.
7:21 Edit
What do you think the whole entire point of his lessons were? To live a limited life - by the rules- preaching a limited life -by the rules- then die? That is 100% pure Torah Law (all 613 of them) there!
7:26 Edit
And how can you say it was better tossed out, to keep "nosy" people from reading it? Aren't we supposed to know everything about how-to become transformed? If anything applies to people being nosy about stuff, that qualifies above all !
JamesSatan wants to wipe Jesus from the face of the earth, or control as many of us as he can. There is a reason why the scripts did not make it. And there is a reason dead sea is the name given them. I was not there. I don't care about the death of the scrolls, which could have been a stage-play. I care about the life-giving words of Jesus.
Unbelievable! They are Jesus words, that were tossed out for the sake of hiding the truth, to keep people bound to the law, to the "poverty of robbers". Because they did not want you to obtain the Fullness, which comes from the Interpreter, and become like him -immortal, and one with the Self-Begot Forefather.
The Dead Sea gets is name because of its -ironically- Salt content. the scrolls were found there and in several caves -both in Egypt and Israel.Have you purchased a copy of the scrolls? You must compare it to Christ. Who cares why the scrolls are dead? Now i know you were there, you just know too much about this plot to fool God's children.
You do understand that 'The Dead Sea Scrolls' aren't the dead 'Sea Scrolls'. You do know what the Dead Sea is, don't you?
Oh come on, i am not lacking in education my dear. Can't you tell? I have heard about the dead sea scrolls. But they are not important. What if it was a script for a dramatization that was banned because of the church? I mean...i like that explanation. Since we are guessing and all, saving for thise of you who attended the bible-chopping ceremony.
Seriously, you are funny.
They are called the Dead Sea scrolls only because of the place they were discovered, not because they are dead in word. And you cannot 'buy/purchase' them, on ebay, but they are available to everyone.
There is no plot to fool Creators children. Because the children of the Father of Lights have no enemy.
Do you understand that yet?Then why did the bible say that God would make your enemies your footstool? Why did Jesus say, love your enemies? And again, i have heard of the dead sea scrolls and why they were named as such. But it could be very fitting. I mean since we're guessing and all.
Guessing? They were plain as day. The content of the text was not skewed or items omitted, like the canonized bible. Second, he says love your enemies. Keyword: YOUR. Not His. Pay attention to what you are reading and regurgitating from self induced, post-hypnotic suggestion.
Didnt you say that God's children dont have enemies???
Yes and they do not, realistically. Creator said this for a simple purpose, to make man aware He has no enemies. Y`shua reaffirmed this, because people were too dull of hearing, at the time, to understand this either. they lived under a very extremely harsh, cruel, violent authority. Telling them to love the Romans was no doubt baffling. Essentially, he said, you get more bees with honey, than you do with vinegar. Reinforcing the original commandment: Agape. It is man who thinks his fellow man is his enemy, when he is not. This is why the religions of science and sensation {as Mark Knowles would say} cause so many conflicts, cause so many wars. You presume you are at war, against some force called evil, and probably so-called demons, that reside in your fellow man -when in fact the only enemy you have is yourself. As mentioned before, the only war -if there is one- is in your own mind, your own perception of what Truth is. You even admitted this to us, that the bible is what you believe is that truth -and nothing beyond it. The mind of man suffers from duality, by self indulgence of the KOS/TOK. This is why you believe you need to rely on text only, and not trust your heart/spirit to prove the truth -to prove everything Jesus said in the text and outside of it. I would even go so far as to say you designed/added to this supposed war, manifested enemies, to fight with, so you could justify a lack of understanding of spirit, to proclaim superiority over another human being, who suffers from the same affliction -the same amnesia- as yourself.
10:36 Edit
You said to Penny, on several occasions, Creator showed you how-to salt, yes? Then why -and be honest- did you begin this thread of "How?" Tell us, truthfully, that your intent was to proliferate your doctrine. We will not be offended or upset, but we deserve the truth. If you do not know how-to salt, then be honest also and allow us to help increase that savory.- Stop with that, already. You are funny. You do not speak like he did, so please, be honest. I speak, as the Spirit gives me ability, apart from my own thinking. On more than one occasion I have been told am out of my mind. Thank goodness people finally starting seeing it. At times, even learn as I am speaking from the heart, not a book. Amazing, yes? You, you speak memorized text, then have the audacity to claim empirical wisdom, of a man you do not even know -only by name and title. That is not kosher {proper}; that is not Creator. That, is ha-satan.
Now you're asking for too much....what do you think...miracles actually happen?
Ok, so are you now ready to go your way?Salt, i got it. Thank you for your input.
You do realize he taught what you are preaching?
Now you. Where do you all get your information? Oh, i know. I stated that Jesus showed me, in this conversation, what it looks like to be salty. I asked how, got some good feedback, then the mind came. It has be me and u,u,u,u, and u. Back and forth. You all sound the same. You all sound the same. No flavor there.
So, should I say, awesome! You knew the answer, beforehand, but decided to ask anyway, pretending you didn't, then deflect to a subversive scenario and try to prove enmity -justifying your position in your self made war, justify the need to evoke and, justify absolution of the text you worship, determining that is the saltiness everyone is missing?
Crickets! Why don't you just say, "I do not know." Is it that difficult? Is it so demeaning, so berating to your ego, that many of us might have some wisdom to impart outside of the KJV version number whatever?
11:02 Edit
As from where my information comes: It comes from the heart -not head. Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt. Creator speaks directly to my heart, no text needed. No reminder needed. His words are my life, the living words, not altered textual words, that anyone can burn with a single match. I do not need textual confirmation or a miracle, like the pagans do. It is confirmed in me daily. I will tell you what I told Mr Knowles, the HP resident atheist advocate, I will come and prove it to you, if necessary.I really don't know what you said. But there is absolutely no evidence that this war was premapped. I have better things to do with my time.
Originally, i thought that a conversation about how the Christian faith and witness is such a turn-off for some. It started ok. Then the wolves came. They are accustomed to storming the Christian party to snuff the message before it reaches the heart. Only God planned this. Since he is in you, then you were part of the plan the whole time.He wants his children to come home. He wants to prepare his messengers.And how would you presume to know what He wants? Can you see your own ego?
Funny how everyone {bible thumpers} know what God wants, what Gods plan is, yet none are doing it, following it; they are asking questions like, "How do we salt the earth" or "What is Gods Will for my life" or "Does God answer prayer" etc. "For folks with all the answers, ya'll sure do ask a lot of questions."
Originally, you had another plan. A plan that has since failed.
No salt left by you, only propaganda of text and pseudo-memorization.
No wolves came. Unless you call yourself a wolf -as I did inquire earlier.
And again, I reiterate, there is no difference, to me, between Christian and Atheist.
Both are over inflated, ego maniacs, who deny the truth, yet both claim to be the truth, emphatically. Get over your self and please accept my sincere apology for teaching folks like you to do this.I have a hub she could read, but since I wrote it I don't think she would get it.
I will read your hub, Cag, i just won't comment, i don't think. Which one?
Comment or no comment is irrelevant.
The title of the hub is "The Human Ego and How To See Past It?"
Unfortunately, you've a low level of awareness, which will be your biggest problem, as has been shown throughout this thread.
But, good luck with it.
You taught me nothing. I have been taught by one who knows for sure. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. If you no longer believe that, darkness has returned many times over and i do see it. You may deny the truth but woe be unto the man who causes even the least of his to fall. So, keep your new fangled salvation to yourself and God will be merciful. Once you forsake the word once it has been given, well, you know. Go back home
You are still failing to see what the way, the truth and the life mean. Jesus is not in the book. Only stories of Jesus is in the book. Jesus is in you. The book tells you this. You seem to be in complete denial of this fact alone.
- Wow, you are better than most. I could say, I'm proud of you, but I would be lying. There is no way for you to condemn me, nor degrade me into feeling bad or seeding me with doubt. I know that tactic too well. So, Eve, how's that apple pie? I do like me some apple pie. On second thought, didn't i go through this before with you. Um, right, no thanks.
And you have learned nothing. Not from the bible, nor your pseudo/fake/pretend relationship with Jesus. The difference between us, I am not judging or condemning you to an non-existent place called Hell {aka back home}. Nor recall saying you do not have the spirit in you. Oddly, you have repeatedly said that about me -and the others here, on more than one instance, indirectly of course, because you know to say it out right, and be wrong, you are accountable for that spoken word.
Don't be angry or disheartened, you know the bible says "be of good courage".
Now, lemme find those three teens who were thrown into a blazing furnace, oh, and Daniel who got tossed into a 25 foot pit, with wild hungry lions, oh, and Joseph, who was tortured and sold as a slave by his own brothers/sisters and ask them what bible verses they read that saved them....Good morning, haven't heard from you so you may be sleeping. Bless you. Anyhoo, i saw that i neglected to respond here, shame
you are proud of yourself, for being the only one to see the true light, however, your light co-mingles with darkness. I am NO GOOD without the father. Your early mention of feeling bad, not, had nothing to do with me, your father is calling you home. So run, if you like. I eat of the fruit given to me by MY father and it is good. Tho i luvapplepie:) ala mode please. I did not condemn you to nowhere. I don' believe I mentioned hell. You have done nothing but judge me. Still, the word stands. The Lord knows who his children are. HIS law is written in their hearts and he sees it from heaven. His light is just that bright. As for the last sarcastic and well thought out remark: do you not believe that those children of God were not in line with what the written law was? Or that they relied on their powers within? They were taught by ptiests and they embraced what was given them by the father. They said what the law said, their reasonable service. He said, you will know a tree by the fruit it bears. No Jackleberries for me, please.
Yet you have perceived adversaries, and wolves that taunt and tease, in other words enemies. You have seen posters storming out and coming back in only to storm out again. You see them as snuffing out messages and now you are saying it is Gods plan. How then can you say there is no evidence of a premapped war?
You are the only one talking in these terms. So it is clear you see this whole thread as some kind of war.
A war against what?It is crazy how you guys place labels. Judgement is for God. We are battling though. Why? We are speaking of two different (maybe4) different entities. We are not saying the same things. And with all the whining and storming in/out, one poster has remained cool and peaceful. Somewhat like Jesus.
Again another tangent. Where are the labels? Are you talking about the one's 'you were using'?. You never did answer what war?
Ok, we should breathe.
10 seconds to listen.
I can never admit that I am unsure about the words of the bible. That thing is alive and has the power to transform darkness into light. For being complete opposites, it is absurd to believe that they are together. Even as un-spiritual as i can think, i see no sense in them being one. Now are I not entitled to believe as I desire? I asked for all input on this thread but we have been really crazy, right? It gets sooo disrespectful and God does not like us messin wit his kids:) i try to ensure I respect you as able to believe as you desire. I will not visit your threads. Not interested. But I, somehow, interest you;) i am honored you chose me. Thanks
I see you changed your post, so I will add to address what was not addressed.
Your thinking is erroneous in that you mind has convinced you we are talking about different entities when in reality we are talking from different understandings of the same entity.
When you separate Jesus from God and God from man, I understand how easily you would be convinced that we are talking about different entities.
I have seen no poster lose their cool so far. But then that's just me. You obviously see things that are tainted by your perception.Wow! You now sound exactly like them! It is amazing how we lean toward the crowd. I have actually heard that from someone here almost exactly that way! Remember? You and I started out, ok. I do have my answer, thanks, we actually can wrap up the conversation. I must rest.
You have said this before. I heard you the first time. Ok so be it.
If you mean, with your obvious wit, the apples of the bible, you know the answer.
So why do you alter Gods word is it ego then?
They are not and cannot be.
There are Christians who have closed their minds, and Jesus has warnings for and about them. But by definition a Christian is someone who follows Christ and an atheist does not believe there is a God.
Wow, this thread came back full circle, regarding what you initially were [complaining] about those social network folks:Entitlement, via ego? This is what I mentioned regarding this and followed up by stating Creator is no respecter of persons. Therefore you are not as "special" nor as "chosen" as you think -just like the Jews thought they were special or chosen, because they carried the Arc of the covenant, or received the 10 commands, as well as those social networking folks...
So, who is really in opposition to Truth?
Those who claim to be special, set apart, more knowing, gifted -regardless of the vehicle {arc, torah, miracles, bible, etc}. My 4 year old knows Creator better than you and I put together -and he can't read yet!
3:18 Edit:
By the way, no one has Jesus. no one has a personal relationship with Jesus, nor has Jesus in their heart.
-came from {begotten} of the Father
-spoke on behalf of the Father
-did the work of the Father
-rose from the grave and returned to his Father
-and now sits at his Fathers' right hand.
The only One who has Jesus is the Father
Taking glory from the Father is a no, no. A lying tongue is another no, no. And even more, stealing someone else testimony {experience, evidence of the fruit from the Tree of Life} because you have none of your own is a VERY big no, no. Get your own testimony and see if the Spirit validates it. Just a thought.But, it are those very ones who peeled back the boundaries, Science abounds with special, set apart, more knowing, gifted people, and maybe those things you name are more like small parts of the whole, for they are part of man's knowledge and wisdom. And, it can also be true that there are so many interpretations to the holy books that that is their true treasure, like a mirror that reflects a different aspect each time you look into it. The only ones who are opposed to seeking the truth are those convinced that the entire truth is already known, be they religious fanatics, atheists (Who may harbor fantastic ideas apart from God) or scientists.
Exactly, gifted according to mans point of view via science, not Creator.
Same as the other religions have their gifted, set apart ones. It's all ego.I am not speaking my words. The spirit of God rests rules and abides in his forever. If you try to think it through, you miss everytime. It seems as if you say one thing, then say another and sometimes the word of God shows up. At other times, something else. God's children are not so wavery. They stand on the solid rock. All other ground is sinking sand.
You put limits on God who knows none. The fact that Physics and evolution are as easy concepts for me to accept, conflicting not one iota from my belief in a spiritual God, who is manifested in one way through the material creation man, and that you perceive some kind of disconnect in what I say merely demonstrates that I perceive things on a different level than you. Not better, just different. Everything which I present as a serious comment (and I do make non-serious comments) is as solid as the rock you speak of. I could even comment at length about that rock., one I know rather well...but only because I know that I and you can only know what God wishes us to know, but that if we ask, it will be opened up to us. I asked...and I received.
No it only seems that way to you sorry to say.
In order for true enlightenment, the ego needs to be chained, otherwise the result is tainted with elements of the individual. Truth can only be sought when that truth can be accepted even though it is in conflict with the ego. Truth is truth whether I like it or not.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Also, if everything from those times were included in the bible, we would no longer be able to carry one. The important stuff is there, for sure!!! I've checked.
How do you know? Too much was left out because it didn't suit the regime at the time I am guessing. The missing years of Jesus's life may hold some revealing information.
Yep, find out what is missing, so we can really know that Jesus is telling the truth??? You keep guessing. I am speaking what i know to be the truth.
How do you know when it is missing? Now you seem to be making things up? You have no idea how Jesus spent those years? He could have been a thief? He could have been one of those people who walk in darkness where you don't believe God exists? No one knows. To claim you know the truth about those years is erroneous.
For ANYONE to claim they know that the missing information could shake the foundations of what Jesus said is erroneous too.
You just made that claim. Or did you mean something else when you said I know the truth?
I know what Jesus said. I know it is the truth. You are talking about missing information. What do you mean?
You need to read the post's carefully. You are being vague again.
- Do you have a personal collection of these?? They make me laugh.
Do not pass go, Go straight to Jail, even shorter.
Beat away... God's word stands when all else crumbles down around it.
If only you had it. You speak the words, but you have repeatedly shown you don't understand what was said. A couple of people in this thread have made a valiant attempt to patiently guide you toward a better understanding, but you just haven't been paying attention.
That is because I am sure that I know that Jesus is the only way. Because i believe that, the adversary sends his followers to taunt me and tease me because of my faith. But I will stand right here, Emile, with my shield. And you know what? It hasn't even a small dent.I remember when you were wise enough to just say that you didn't know the truth. Now, you have a better idea since reason has entered the conversation. You don't wonder why you just CANNOT stay away from the conversation?? You have stormed away a couple of times yourself.
Again, you either ignore the facts or twist them to suit your personal agenda. I didn't storm away; I told you I was leaving. Politely, I thought; but you have a penchant for accusing people of things only you can see.
No one has been sent by anyone. I'm sorry that you consider yourself a pawn in a cosmic war. That doesn't mean we all are. No one is taunting you or teasing you. Everyone was interested in a dialogue but it became obvious (from where I was standing) that you didn't want a dialogue. You wanted to preach and ensure that everyone who disagreed knew that you were a Christian soldier standing in oppostiion to anyone that dared disagree. That they were outside of God's grace because...OH MY GOSH, THEY DISAGREED!!
Sorry, for shouting there; but it was necessary to get the full effect. To be honest, the only reason I rejoined the conversation was to comment to other people who were actually sharing interesting information. You reopened our dialogue. So, you are the one that just CANNOT stay away. I think it has something to do with your need to preach.Here is the thing Genea. Are you sure you know Jesus is the way? You separate Jesus from God when there is no separation because Jesus is one with God. You separate God from whoever you choose because you believe the spirit of God does not dwell in all. If Jesus is the way to God you would understand Jesus is within, God is within. As pointed to in the previous post.
You perceive adversaries just because others have opinion's that differ to yours. You perceive being taunted and teased because you cannot answer simple questions with simple answers. When you receive answers that are not in alignment with your own beliefs you perceive this as being teased and taunted.
You would not perceive things in that way if you knew what you were talking about.I see clearly with Christ as my guide, didn't i tell you? Yes, i am sure that Jesus is the way. God and Jesus are one in spirit, they agree. Two entities. Jesus' spirit is at the right hand of the father. Anyone on the sidelines can see who is being taunted.
Perhaps not as clearly as you would like to imagine... what you say does not always fit with what Jesus says. No one has disputed Jesus. At least not the ones you are conversing with. Take another read of the entire thread. What might you be reading? Must be only that which you have made up in your own mind? You insist on separating Jesus from God and God from man no matter what Jesus or other passages in the bible says. I suggest you take a look again at the passage I quoted.
I was not talking about anyone on the sideline. You are the one perceiving these things. If anyone else see's it as you do let them give their opinion.No Penny. You are not saying what Jesus said. You speak with another tongue. Several times you have denied the words of Jesus. God's children don't do that.
Show me where I have denied Jesus's words any where in this thread? I do not speak with another tongue, I speak with an understanding that you do not yet have. I have showed you where you have altered Jesus words to suit your own thinking. I have illustrated numerous times Jesus's words and what they mean. Yet you deny the meaning. So who is denying Jesus's words?
Now if you like, show me where you think I have denied the words of Jesus.The main thing, darkness and light live together does not reflect what Jesus stated many times. That is the opposite of what he said. Now i know you are going to fight me on this becsuse you believe that my sense of understanding is warped, but i am not saying anything other than what Jesus said. No? You got lots of "other" stuff to consider.
You see it as in opposition to what Jesus said. The verses I have been pointing to say that darkness and light live together. You do realize light and dark and salt are metaphors? Where have I said your understanding is warped? You conclude that yourself.
'On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you'
Realizing is becoming aware of. Not realizing is being unaware of. If God (the light) is not within the mind of flesh (darkness). What is there to realize do you think?
pennyofheaven wins the prize for the most persistent and patient discussion EVER! with an indoctrinated child, and a free pass into any discussion I ever initiate on here
Just don't let it go to your head, like the one you're trying to converse with.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Great!!! To end the conversation (possibly temporarily) the word of God... For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him will not parish but have everlasting life. We must believe the words of Jesus, if we are his.
The word is perish, not 'parish'. Sorry, bad habit. Hold to your own teaching, for here be piranhas, sharks, and barracudas who will test your faith...not to mention your patience, Gen. I feel that you are honest in your faith...that is all you need, girl. No need to lower yourself to this level. Be as the sheep that is not lost, and leave those that are up to the shepherd.
Oh yeah, thanks. but, ibe chu nu wa ay mint. Parish. Perish. Die. Finito. Caput. You must believe on him. Not inside, to be considered his own. My faith has been tested, i still believe the words of the father in heaven. I am grateful for being able to witness the Ultimate power of the word in action so many times. It literally brings man to his knees.
If it is good for one, it is good for all. Each will kneel. I have said that before in the forums. There is the 'ALMIGHTY' part, and the nature of the only mystery mankind need solve. "I don't know what she said...but I sure like the way she said it!!!" Remember this, that pearls are not cast before swine, so, if that is the case, then we are not considered swine, but children. If a person tells you 'Come here, here is the Messiah!' Go not. If a person tells you 'There, there is the Messiah, go there! Go not. Bless you, Gen, on your path. Peace
Speaking the word "one time" does not constitute devotion. The adversary knows well the words of God, but it is rejected by him/it, And perfected by men.
Faith cannot be tested when you have experience. If faith can be tested then get some experience.
Penny, you really should write a stern letter to God. Only he can change the rules. But since he knows perfection when he sees it, you should probably not.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Jesus said, it is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean, it is the stuff that comes out that defiles him.
- genaeaposted 12 years ago0
Has anyone here ever taken time to praise the one who put you together in your mother's womb? Honest, stripped down, holy, and true praise? Worship for the one you call father? Gratitude for making you holy because of the blood that his son shed on the cross? Thanks for breath. Thanks for life abundant he gave?
Has anyone ever heard of deflection? It is a typical character reflex of some who cannot refute arguments they make, so fall back, regroup and prepare to attack, again...
That's a NO for you? Anyone else?Deflection? I know it well. Praise? Anyone?
Psyche 101. Did four years of it, while preparing my thesis in philosophy - philology.
Four questions in once sentence, yet denial to answer any, with full clarity by asking more questions. It is known as bait-switch. The rhetorical loop, I believe the term goes. Also learned this bit in ministry.Excuse me please, your education out-trumps mine. Bait and switch. Hmmm? Where is Jesus in that? Ohididitagain! Oops. Didn't i ask for my first missed question? You ask fast. I can't keep up, wit ma dumbness and all.,
Again, question number 1. You want a lovely melody withthat?
Wow, apparently absolution breeds literary laziness, a void of human courtesy and conversational respect. Good to know.
Please, do not be so hard on yourself. I mean it just may be more fun to type scroll back-scroll back- scroll back, than the actual question. It does not constitute literary laziness. Geez
The problem is you're not funny. If you were, then sure I would laugh. However, your actions prove you to be much more less than funny and completely out in left field where there's not stadium.
Ray, look, over here!
Oh wait, this is this wrong thread we're in.Sure, you do, but mostly with the thoughts in your head and it completely negates common sense.
Yet YOU return unto ME daily. What wondrous love is this?
See, a prime example of being completely unaware. I didn't return to you. I returned to HubPages. Nice ego you're showing. And if you would like to see mine, I'll gladly show you it.
It's love for humankind and sanity. Something which I'm still unsure you have either of.Please, let's behold the ego. I want to see if IT sounds like Jesus.
If it sounds like Jesus.
You wouldn't know what Jesus sounded like, even if HE spoke into your ears, heart or mind.Is that all your ego can do? I really braced myself.
That wasn't my ego, but so proven fact by your own actions. And, you know what? That's the really sad part.
You have listened to me all this time and ask that? Is that the best you heard?
You all "came back" at one time or another. I have been here the whole time.
You're point being? We go back to all threads. Take a look.
My point was, the definition that education pointed out about deflection or something, and regrouping to attack again, sounds like...
Genaea I take offense at this post. No one is attacking you. And people don't leave to regroup in order to attack again. I don't know about anyone else, but it is frustrating to attempt to carry on a conversation with you. You claim to want a dialogue, but you don't listen. You don't talk to anyone, you talk at them.
I apologize for offending you. I don't mean to. Feedback, remember?. I will try to keep it more emile-friendly.
Too bad you have no clue what friendly is to begin with.
This thread has now made you look extremely fanatical and completely well-done(as in over cooked).
Your goose is cooked and credibility is completely shot. The fact that Emile and James even continues a conversation with you, only points to their tolerance of someone who is disrespectful and dishonest.And you choose to conversate for a different reason?
No different reason. I address irrationality which you are load to the gills with and my tolerance level is just as high as theirs.
Yes agree.
Shall leave you all to it.
See you all in another thread.
Hmmm, two NO's. i think we are starting to see a clearer picture.
Education is my rock? Yet another statement that is completely meaningless and shows you have no ability to learn anything. Not to mention, you dismiss things which don't suit your comfort stasis. Lack of character showing and yet fail to realize it. Good job.
As for Jesus being your rock? Now, that's funny! Jesus Christ is the solid rock. All other ground is sinking sand. You stand on what you think you know. I stand on what I know that I know, nothing else. If we were in an official debate, i would have more points. You just shoot out whatever comes to mind. Though you have been shown many times, you will not see it. It is too close. The mind is no match for the words of God. Say what you will about me, the words of God always stand. Fight on!!!
You do know that Jesus didn't have a last name, right?
And so far, you're up to your throat, sooner or later, you'll gag on your own words.
And you know this how exactly? I stand on conscience. Too bad you don't know what that is.
Yes, it's already known that you stand on complete irrationality.
If this were a debate, you wouldn't have any points. You would have won by default because I don't debate stupidity in motion. I discuss it.
A lie. Another good show of your character.
And you cannot see anything other than you self inflated ego.
Yes, it's known, the only thing that match stupidity is wisdom, both are limitless.
Yeah I know, and you fail to realize you cause conflict every time you open your mouth. So much for following, understanding, learning about the fictional loving G/god you represent.Sorry to confuse you by the name. I forgot to add the. Sorry. Me??? Gag on the words of THE Christ? Never! You've gagged a couple times. I've read the thread from the beginning, i saw you. In your attempt to make me look foolish, you trip and resort to, "So what, you're ugly!" or something like that
How old are you? you stand on conscience??? Well there we go! Conscience is flawed without the word of God. As for you not arguing with "stupidity in motion"??? Uh, how many lies will YOU tell??? You've been here arguing with "st... Wait! So you DON'T think this is stupidity? Do you? You didn't confuse me. You're showing you're not actually learned.
I'm sure you would considering you're using the bible as your source.
Actually, I don't gag on Jesus' teachings. I just know enough to leave out the mystical BS which is a lie.
And still haven't learned anything, much less from me but from those who are more educated than you on the topic. That's the shame you carry.
Interesting statement
And my age has to do with what exactly. I'm currently 43 years old.
Yeah, something you don't know anything about.
A lie. Good show yet again of your character. Not to mention, it is a perfect example of you not understanding your own life. Yet again, another shame you wear with your ego on your sleeve.
Debate is the word you used, not argue. And again, you show your that you're unaware of what it means to be honest. Change of words changes context.
Lies? How can I lie, when all I am doing is pointing out your actions without using my own reflection to do so? I'm sure you'll come up with something to say to that, which will in the end, show off more about you than you realize.
Arguing? I've not been arguing with you. Again, poor perception on your part.Quick! Give me one of those big funny (lmao) icons right here!!! You are reslly funny! I had assumed a much younger age. Listen closely... Debate and argument overlap in the two definitions i just looked up. See? I have a reference for that too!
still think Im the gagger???
Oooo, there's that sense of humor of yours!
Just because we call Him Jesus Christ doesn't mean we think "Christ" is His last name. We understand that it's a title, like King or President.
Great:) not trying to make enemies. I like you too. It is not a street fight, actually;) i can walk away and still be friends. I can still come to your aid if you need me. Each of you, are welcome. Maybe one day we can have that conversation about how harmony and peace may connect us. Where do we agree? We can work from there. Thanks.
You just met some of the more rabid non-believers on hub pages. Their non-belief is at a different level for each one. Keep the faith, girl!
Oh gosh. I didn't realize you supported the 'us against them' mentality. That's good to know.
Not really. I'm not a christian, so, Gen can only be an acquantance. There is a chasm between us! (Sigh!
)Not trying to save anybody. Although, I can bump you to save yourself. Frankly, I could care less what anyone believes.
That's a collective sigh, although gen has made it clear the sigh is because as she claims ' heaven weeps' because not everyone agrees with her.
But, you apparently agree with her, since you have suggested she keep the faith; so you couldn't be sighing but so hard. I guess rabid believers have to stick together and imagine strife where none exists. Carry on.Now i said that in5th grade to Sammy. How dare she be Monica's friend!!!
Emile. Emile. Emile.I'm your friend gen. As much as anyone can be on Hub Pages. But there is a difference between liking someone personally and supporting their radical views. Do you support everything your friends do? Even when they are damaging to society? If so, you aren't really a friend....are you?
Wow, you are so right! Liking one personally has nothing to do with it. How do you attempt to disagree witout stooping to personal attack??? I always wonder.
Well, you do attack people a lot. So, it's good that you notice and want to stop. I would say, just stop. I wouldn't suggest you apologize. I've tried that when I've been involved in a less than courteous exchange and the other party almost never takes their portion of the responsibility. You just end up gritting your teeth at their snotty reply.
Emile, i Know that you cannot come up with even one iota of evidence to show my attacks. But i have many from you. I sm not interested in even displaying the nonsense. I only want a good conversation. When i say what i believe, i get bombarded with all these senseless assessments of my intelligence and sanity. I laugh on the inside because you seem to really believe yourselves. Even without evidence. Yet you need evidence for everything else. Funny:)
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