Bible Translation Issue
- Jesshubpagesposted 11 years ago
0Which Bible translation do you use and why? Do you consider your translation as superior to others? Why?
I use a NLT for quick reading but for any serious study I use either an interlinear Greek or an online Young's Literal if I can't be bothered to walk to the bookcase.
I wouldn't waste my time with a King James; its archaic language and mistranslations make it only useful as a doorstop.Hello I am using basically non archaic NKJV. I am using Hebrew Old and NT plus Greek NT. I have many other translations including Young. I love to listen Tanakh and NT in Hebrew on audio. I have available home German Dr. Martin Luther Bible Russian, Slovak, Czech.
Amplified Bible in English is very good.
I love reading the King James Version, but I like reading out loud from the NKJV better. I don't get as tongue-tied.
The Living Bible paraphrased, I don't care for because it seems to take away from the holiness of the Bible. I have an NIV which I'd like to read, but the print is way too small, so I'm going to have to get one with larger print.I use the NIV very often, but read the KJV & the NASB a lot, too. They are all translations, even the KJV, which some people mistakenly believe is the one and only true Bible. The translations that I use are for better understanding of the scriptures.
Fellow Christians, thank you for giving your personal preferences and opinions. Let us just ignore those destructive comments. What we are apt to is to from each other and not to prove our selves or disprove the other. God bless
JessieBible Translation Issue? With all the issues found in the Bible, translations is the least of its problems. I have issues like talking snakes, discrimination against homosexuals and women, a supposedly loving god that kills innocent men, women and children, glorifies slavery, and virgin births.
Well that sure explains why you are as you are!
Paul can you list a few? or email me your issues
I have and I am.
would you like to share what you see as problems?I already mentioned the issues (just to name a few) earlier.
I don't know if you know but Abraham, Jacob and others like them paid there slaves.
It says that women should submit to their husbands. But it also says that the man must love and treat their wives like Jesus treated the church. How did Jesus treat his followers? He washed their feet he comforted them he loved them he died for them. This looks equal to me.
God does not hate homosexuals; he hates the act of homosexuality. Just like premarital sex and cheating on your spouse. God does not hate the people, he hates the act.
Can you clarify on those innocent killed?
About the snake, the snake refers to Satan the devil. The word snake is a description of Satan. Sneaky conniving, a killer
Rev 12: [9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,
This is the same serpent in Gen 3: 4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.
Isa 59:5 he is called a viper
It was not a snake it was Satan the Devil that is talking here.
The virgin birth is a long conversation.May I know your reference that shows Abraham and Jacob paid their slaves? The only transaction I know for a slave was when Joseph was sold by his brother for 20 pieces of silver.
I am curious. Have you read the whole thing? From cover to cover I mean?
I am glad that you are at least talking from knowledge rather than spouting nonsense!
It is obvious you are just trying to stir things and you don't sound interested in actual information. I hope it's not true. Best of luck to you. God bless, whether you want it or not! :-)
Well, I shouldn't, but I'm going to anyway because I'm a Christian and this demands my attention. The talking snake was Satan and him beguiling Eve is what started all the discrimination against homosexuals and women, and the killing. I hardly think the people of Sodom and Gomorrah could be called innocent. They were evil. As far as God not loving homosexuals or woman, that just isn't true. God hates sin, but he loves all who will repent of their sin and believe in Him. Who was the only one who didn't run when Jesus was crucified at the cross? a woman. Who found his empty tomb? women. The reason God condemns homosexuality is because He defined marriage as a union between a man and a woman. It doesn't mean he hates the homosexual - he just hates the act because it is a sin. As far as slavery goes, slavery was seen differently in Biblical times. Often, a slave became part of the household and even inherited some of the family's inheritance.
As far as a virgin birth, you are talking about my Lord and Savior and it was necessary for Mary to be a virgin because Jesus was the pure Lamb of God and by the way, the only innocent one killed in the Bible in order that we might be saved from our sinful natures, such as homosexuality. Jesus died for all, whether you want or not or whether you believe or not. The question is whether you accept Him or not.
If you don't believe in the Bible, then it doesn't make any difference what version you read.Paul I hope you see in these two answers that if you read the bible carefully you will get the right answer.
I do love my sisters in the Lord. Ann, it is great answer.
Well I shouldn't but I'm going to anyway because there's too much believing what the man at the front of the Church says rather than looking into stuff for one's self.
As for Sodom, their sin was not homosexuality. A simple reading of Genesis tells us Sodom's sin was rising before God but it does not state what that sin actually was. The Church assumes it was homosexuality because the men at Lot's door wanted to have sex with his visitors. If God did consider homosexuality a good reason for destroying the city why didnt he also kill Lot for offering up his two virgin daughters for gang rape? Yet Lot was called a righteous man because God sent in two angels to get him out after Abraham's plea. Here is Sodom's sin:
Ezekiel 16:49
“‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
Sounds a lot like the Church doesn't it? Watch out Bible Belt !
As for Satan. There was no rebellious Satan character in the garden. This is a Christian misunderstanding.
http://www.jewishpathways.com/chumash-t … arden-eden
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-tru … orned-eden
If you don't believe you need to study the bible aside from what your pastor told you it means, it won't matter what version you use.I am aware that the Bible doesn't say what Sodom and Gomorrah's sin was - I was using them as an example that God doesn't kill innocent blood.
Neither, do I have any Christian misunderstanding of what happened in the Garden of Eden. I checked out your links, but I believe God gave us a choice between good and evil. That's because he didn't want to create a race of robots. I also happen to believe that Satan spoke through the snake. If you don't that's your choice.You are aware that Lot wasn't innocent aren't you? He offered his daughters for gang rape.
You say you believe Satan spoke through the snake, but you present no evidence for your case. If you blindly accept what you have been told the Garden events are all about but refuse to consider the Jewish interpretation (for whom the account was written by the way) then how can you expect God to teach you anything?So when the pharaoh refused to let Moses and his people go (even though there's no record of this outside the bible including the existence of moses), god did not send an angel of death to deal with the pharaoh, but kill innocent children instead? Back when the earth was flat and consisted of only three land masses (Europe, Lybia, and Asia) that floated on an endless sea, god assumed that every man, woman and child, except Noah and his family, was evil and killed then all with a flood. Of course god didn't think that all the way through. By killing off every living thing has some drawbacks. Mainly, without plant life, there goes the oxygen supply.
Paul, have you not herd of the hyksos expulsion Out of Egypt. The Pharoh at the time of the expulsion was named Ahmose l (which means brother of moses.) Ahmose's son died very young.
This story is told by the Egyptians. But they tell it backwards. They say that they kicked the hyksos out.
Where does it say that the earth is flat. Are you talking about when the four beast are at the corners of the earth? because if so you need to read the bible. It says that the 4 beast will be in the corners of Jerusalem. bring the 4 winds which means judgment. Ez. 14:21 talks of God sending "My four sore judgements upon Jerusalem, The word earth in hebrew can mean the land.
I could go on and on. You gotta read paul.I do. If I'm interested in Egyptian history, I'll read a history book on Egypt. If I want to learn about our universe, I get my info from a credible source, the Bible isn't one of them. The Bible is neither a history or science book and never meant to be. The only thing missing from the Bible if the disclaimer, "This is the work of fiction, any resemblance of persons living or dead is coincidence".
THen why put your input into these conversations if you don't read it or like it?
And the bible has a lot of (reliable) history in it. Where do you think that archaeologist go to get info about the middle east area, THE BIBLE.
If you don't read the Bible why do you act like you know what is in there. The Internet can only get you so far. and again it is another mans view that probable got it from another web site.
I have shared with you answers to your questions and you bring other things up that you don't understand. Read it and you might find out.
Hi Paul. I think problem with some people is that they do not honor Word of God. It is too bad. God set for his people Law on temporary basis, till final solution - the Messiah comes. The Law is the Law and is demander. God said that if one transgressed will die. He warned the people. If God will not give the law then people will be wipe out from the earth. Since that problem occurred broken faith in Word of God in Garden of Eden man died and you have evidence of it. If you don't believe please go to cemetery.
By the way there is death penalty in the world today.
Disappearinghead: So since Lot who was a relative of Abraham, by the way, should have been burned along with Sodom because he was trying to protect God's angels by offering a homosexual mob his daughters? He put God first. And by the way, later, if you'll recall, those same daughters got Lot drunk and slept with their own father.
If you've read the book of Genesis, it presents the evidence of the snake in the garden and I believe the Bible version that I have (the KJV) was originally written in Hebrew (some in Greek, some in Aramaic, just so you know I'm not stupid). The Torah was written by Moses, so I have the Jewish interpretation.
Paul: like I said earlier, if you don't believe the Bible in the first place, you won't believe in Moses. God did all of that to Pharaoh in order to show the Egyptians and the Israelites that He was the only true God. Up to that point (and unfortunately, afterward), they had been worshiping all kinds of gods and idols. Sarcasm, while funny in a lot of situations, is not in this particular case. God doesn't do anything by mistake. The flood was a preordained, calculated event just like everything else in the Bible.I do not take the Bible literally, neither do mainstream Jews or the Vatican. These are nice stories to serve as a moral, not science or history. Moses does not exist outside of the Bible and the creation story is one of hundreds, most older than the Biblical version. The Noah and the flood story ( a ripoff from the Epic of Gilgamesh) is too rediculous to even get into.
Paul, of course you cannot. Bible is manual for our life and not for scientific analysis. Spiritual matters cannot be seen and parables was used. BTW Bible helped many facst to science. Let say Job revealed so many thing the same Peter. We do not believe in religion only Word, which set us free. Religion offended you and us as well. The Bible is collection of individuals their their experiences and truth has to be found by abiding in the Word.
I must say that "sister Sodam" sounds a lot like many in the U.S.
All that you attribute to God was done via Man and was subject to the perceptions of those claiming God said this and that. God hates this and that was a perception of Man. It is human emotions that whomever attributed to an all powerful God. This makes no sense, yet people continue to believe it blindly because understanding all powerfulness is limited to what a carnal mind can accept.
Jesus dying was a waste of time as the supposed sinful natures apparently still exist.So what was the point of his death?Seems like you "blindly" accept that Jesus died. Good start. Now, it was for sin that he died. His death provided a once and for all sacrifice for sin. Before that, we killed goats. The animal killing was stinky because the heart of man was hard and just killing goats, probably for sin that they were about to commit. Jesus' death represented a perfect sacrifice to atone for all sin. That was the point.
How is it that he died for sin when it supposedly still exists? No atonement therefore occurred or is that those who claim it still exists did not understand the whole said sacrifice?
He died as a once and for all sacrifice for sin. Those who believe in him are saved because of that faith. This faith, from what I understand, is what makes us acceptable in spite of sin. The death of Jesus did not wipe away sin from the earth. His death wiped away the penalty of death for sin. No more killing to say, "i'm sorry for sinning"
Hebrews 9:26
26 "Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself."Hebrews 9:27-28
27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin , to those who eagerly await Him.
Seems there is still death, but no sin...Just have to be waiting for him...And in verse 26 is clearly states that he did away with sin......for those who eagerly await him. He did not remove sin from the world. Just his own. Those who believe and eagerly await. Yes???
His own PEOPLE.
no, Jesus had no sin. I think that is what made him the perfect sacrifice. Those who believe on him, have no sin either, in a sense. Their sin does not lead to death. Faith makes them "perfect". Not themselves, not their acts, not their tithe, not their clean ceremony cups. But their faith, their belief, their eager awaiting for his return.Jesus only removed sin for a select few? Or for all?
If sin leads to death, then why would those "without" sin still die?
Paul states that all who are reborn through Christ die and then are reborn through salvation.
I'll look for the passage that says Jesus' death removed all sin past and present and get back to you with it...I am at work at the moment and can't look it up..Jesus removed sin for "whosoever believeth on him" that includes EVERYBODY, who believes. Those without sin still die??? Every man dies. The penalty for sin is "spiritual" death. Death of soul is eternal. It is somewhat mysterious, but not really. Paul meant die to "self". A realization that your way is no "match" for God's way. A realization that God's way is best.
Do you honestly believe that there is no more sin in the world? Sin will be wiped from the earth, but it has not happened yet. Jesus' death removes the sins of many; those who believe. Not all. Search the scriptures. Please let me know what you find.Sure there is "sin" in the world...Which is why I have trouble believing that someone died for forgiveness of sin. Since it is no longer required to sacrifice an animal to forgive sin and all one has to do is ask forgiveness, why do some many still live sinful lives? And the majority of these people are ones who claim to be Christian...
I dont understand your question. If you know that there is penalty for sin; Jesus died "only once" to pay that penalty for many; why not understand why people needed the one sacrifice because they could not stop sinning? Under the old law, we are all doomed to death. The law is perfect. We, however, are not. We needed a "cover". Jesus covers us. Faith in him is what covers us. In spite of sin. Faith cleanses and covers and assures and makes us acceptable to God. So simple, yet, so many miss it. The rules that people add and adhere to are the start of the trouble of the confusion. But studying it for yourself is better than all the sermons combined. You know the wrong sermon when you hear it too, when you study for yourself. So simple.
I don't think there is a penalty for sin. We just die..That is part of how the life cycle works...
I hold a Doctorate in Biblical Studies...I understand completely what is "taught" in churches today...However, it isn't always correct in accordance with the Bible...
And as you said " the rules that people add and adhere to are the start of the trouble of confusion" I completely agree with...Sadly, No of them realize they are confused and if they do, then they are purposely spreading the wrong message.No penalty for sin for anybody? You hold a doctorate in biblical studies.
DoubleScorpion were you studying the "bible" bible??? Or are you one of the last, you just spoke about?I didn't say that the Christian belief doesn't hold that there is a penalty for "sin"...I said that I don't...And that is because of my studies. It is because of my studies that I don't hold to the beliefs of Christians...I have my own personal beliefs and don't expect anyone else to follow or believe in them.
Of course it is...Sadly not everyone follows this example. Everyone wants to impose their personal beliefs on others.
It is promised that all will be exposed to the truth. My mandate is to tell it. You don't have a mandate as you have another view. No problem for me. Impose? No offer. Since you claim to love the bible, you know the truth, or at least have been exposed. Those who don't read it will be urged to, if only by listening to/ reading this exchange. I won't lie to you. The work is being done, even in you; even in me.
Truth is subjective when it comes to religion.
We will all find out what is truth when we die. Until that time...it is nothing more than a guessing game.
One thing I can say...If you was born in a majority Muslim based religion...there would be a very high probability that you would be Muslim today instead of Christian.
I have not made any claims of loving the bible or any other religious text...Just stated where my studies were focused. Something I would highly recommend to anyone who claims to be Christian...A little bible study never hurt anyone correct? But as it has been shown in the past, most Christians would rather rely on their interpretation of the bible, than to actually get some formal study (free formal study) based in years of experience and indepth study.That experience comes from life "with" God. I thought you said you could not go a day without it (the bible) Maybe that was someone else. My apology. I have no contempt for those who don't believe as I. We can talk about cart-wheels
but a Christian conversation with me in it goes like this... The bible is upheld as the "ultimate" truth. The words of Jesus are priceless and valued above ALL other words, to me. The words that are written in the bible, though seemingly piece-worked, all work together. Jesus agreed with all of it. The new covenant is what he brought. No longer "bound" by sin, but free to boldly approach the Father, through faith in Jesus. Sins blotted out, because of faith. As faith grows, and it should; the body, mind, and Spirit transform daily. More like him Which does bring us back to the question of "which" words. Translations vary pretty wildly on some keys parts of the text. If the words are important it would seem a good idea to understand the earliest versions of each gospel now deemed to be in the Bible. And probably some that weren't but are equally valid, historically speaking.
The bible speaks about things like arguing over words, expedience, and the most important matters of the law. When the church argued over clean glasses; he corrected their thinking, if they accepted. When the church argued over his "work" on the sabbath; he corrected their thinking. When they argued over the woman who should be put to death for her sin; he corrected their thinking, if they accepted. People listened, but some did not hear, nor heed. As it is today. Now, so many go back and forth with me about many different spiritual or Christian subjects. They are not forced to. Yet, they do. Who is to blame?
So which translation do you consider accurate enough to be considered "the bible". because the words are all the bible is--and different versions not only have different words but express different meanings.Unless you think a phoenix is basically the same as a date tree. Or it doesn't matter who is not allowed to live, a poisoner or a witch.
Well simply, the bible that I have, agrees with the spirit within me. The words that I speak come from the King James. Not that newer translations are not easier to understand, I just find that the newer versions sometimes sound a little different. The most important thing is love God. Love brother is next. All of the laws, when followed, illustrate love. Jesus perfected the love by offering acceptance without perfection, because of faith in him. We cannot "do" salvation. We learned that early. We must now accept it with humility and be thankful for the gift. The gratitude unfolds into more love.
Then you have chosen one version, and one that differs greatly from the gospels as they were written.
What am I missing in my version? How am I being fooled by King James? God ensures that all know the "truth". His children are covered by him. I honestly believe that a sincere heart does just what is required. That is why judging is reserved for one who can read the heart. Our actions sometimes do not match because of nature. God sees it all.
No-one argued over putting the adultress to death...Jesus said let him who is without sin cast the first stone...In other words, it is not man's place to judge and punish since we ourselves are sinful...only one who is completely sin free can judge and punish...God...hence the whole, judge not less ye be judged...Yes!!! You have gotten one of the principles
Judging God's children is God's job. Maybe there was not an argument, but then why did they ask what should be done with her? They were testing him to see if he "actually" knew the law about what should be done with her sort??? He passed the test, but not the way that they expected. They always forgot about humility. They ever sought ways to punish. By then though, that was all they knew. Follow the law, follow the law. Jesus said mercy was more important. Humility was more important. See???
If the words of Jesus are priceless, then why do so many Christians follow the teachings of Paul instead of what Jesus taught?
And the Bible of Jesus' day that he agreed with...was to Old Testament...The New Testament hadn't been written yet...So if we are to follow what Jesus' agreed with, we should still be following the OT.The words of Jesus are priceless to me. Paul's teachings were good. He walked with Jesus daily. He probably knew personally a little about what Jesus thoughts were. Do not Paul and Jesus agree?
As far as Jesus speaking from the laws of old (torah). He agreed that it all was good. He did not come to change the law, but bring to light its main principles. We are to agree that it is good. Following it is impossible without Jesus' teachings. Surely, we know that it is wrong to kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, etc. the love of Jesus makes those acts virtually impossible. We love what he loves. We hate what he hates. When we err, we are to see the wrong and be (sorry) repentant; turning away from deplorability more and more. The words of Jesus teach us how to live the life God wants. He "did" it perfectly.And yet, history has shown the complete opposite in which holy wars in Jesus' name murdered millions. Prisons are full of those good Christians. Reality is very different.
That is the problem in a nutshell.Yeah, but the ONLY thing God and Christ hates is sin, and the damage it does to folk.
And yet, we see the immense damage Christianity does to folks and it has nothing to do with sin.
You see the damage CHURCHIANITY does, all corrupted systems cause damage.
Christ is not the problem. Not following Christ is the problem. Remember always... All who cry Lord, Lord, are not his. Not all.
It has to do with disobedience. Christ was a meek, humble and merciful man. Those who follow him, are too.
"SIN" is anything which is detrimental to our (mankinds) health and well being.
With or without religion, mankind will find an excuse to inflict evil upon its fellow man.
This is our fault regardless of what we are hiding behind.Well heck, the air is sinful, in Chicago. Talk about detrimental to health.
believe it or not, sin is different for everyone, in a sense. The bible says something about, "to him it is sin." Some things that convict your spirit, may not convict another's. God deals with us as we are. Flaws and all. He corrects what needs correcting within each of us. He reads the heart's intent.And yet, we don't find people going to doctors or hospitals with sin related illnesses.
It is only our fault for following bad ideologies like Christianity. With religion, we will have cause to inflict evil, so you obviously have no problem eliminating bad ideologies?Jerami wrote:
"SIN" is anything which is detrimental to our (mankinds) health and well being.
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ATM ....And yet, we don't find people going to doctors or hospitals with sin related illnesses.
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ME ...With or without religion, mankind will find an excuse to inflict evil upon its fellow man.
This is our fault regardless of what we are hiding behind.
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ATM ....It is only our fault for following bad ideologies like Christianity
With religion, we will have cause to inflict evil, so you obviously have no problem eliminating bad ideologies?
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Do you ever listen to yourself ?? It is our/your fault "ONLY IF" we can blame it on someone else's ideology. The only mistakes that you have ever made was to follow someone else? REALLY!!! Do you think that YOU can delevope a perfect ideology that society would accept and abide by? ..., that someone didn't find fault with? That someone didn't feel cheated.
As far as eleminating bad ideologies ?? It is not my "job" to eleminate anyone elses. It is however everyones responsability to stand up for their own. To stand up for is not the same as going on the attack with.Unfortunately, religions will never allow us to try another method.
Yes, keep standing up for a bad ideology.I don't think that you know what my ideology is though you have been here "AT LEAST" 14 months, you hardly listen to what other people are saying.
You think there are two kinds of people ... those that agree with you totally and all the others.others
Holy wars are not God's business. I know that God declared many wars for the "children" he was giving them lands promised.
Jesus said: "do good to them that hate you, turn the other cheek, forgive 70 times 7, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you. Jesus spoke against war. People do their own things and add a "FALSE" God stamp. They are not gonna miss God's judgment. But he will not hold you accountable for those "holy" wars unless you join or agree.
Since it is no longer required to sacrifice an animal to forgive sin and all one has to do is ask forgiveness,
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This made bells go off in my head!! Does that mean that the daily sacrifice has been taken away ? As foretold in prophesy. I think so! ..... No matter how it is interpreted.There are many different sacrifices...Only the sacrifice for sin was taken away. There is still the sacrifice for trespass, and the sacrifices for observance of the feasts as well as a few others.
DS,
Correct.
And that reference defines the effect of sin which is death, because of consequence, but not the item itself, called sin -which is the power of reason -to know good from evil. And further explaining why rules are no longer effective at keeping man from sin, because sin itself is no more.
And the only thing able to keep man from the effect {death} is the KOH, the Ruach, the Spirit dwelling within -leading, speaking, guiding, bringing the fruit of the Tree of Life in manifestation, bringing the true nature of each one to their remembrance.
Since there is no sin, there is no rule required or able. Because what rule can govern or instruct Life. Therefore the bible is inadequate to keep one ineffective from death and manifesting the reality of Life.
James
Paul, people who are not born of (in) spirit, cannot understand the Bible.
I'm an atheist, but I always use the KJV for reference. There may be some "problems" with the translation, but it's old enough to have politics not be part of the translation. Example: apparently recent versions have the commandment "Thou shalt not murder" rather than "Thou shalt not kill."
The reason why newer translations write this as "murder" instead of "kill" is because so many people do not understand the context of the word "kill" in that verse. The law is talking about unjust killing ie: murder. Because the KJV is more vague in its translation of the Hebrew word "ratasch", newer translations have made it more clear by using the word "murder". The word is also translated as "murder" and "slaying". Clearly the OT does not condemn lawful killing because just two chapters later in Exodus 22:2, God allows for killing in self-defense.
even then, thanks twosheds for responding. This is a friendly advice. If we treat the Bible as merely a reference, you won't really benefit from it. But try to open your heart to the message, I believe the Words will make you the most wonderful man you can be.
Believe it or not, I still use the old King James Version 1611. I guess that makes me old fashioned but I read it and understand it perfectly. To me, it moves me that in no other book or translation has ever moved me. I am very passionate about the beautiful words in these scriptures. My Mother, Father, Grandmother and Grandfather all read this book for comfort. I believe that it is probably because we know the auther of the book so it is so dear to our hearts. It is like a love letter from my heavenly Father.
Why have you posted a picture of Jeremy Beedle?
the good news bible is an interesting translation....... it makes good reading......
No matter which translation we use, just use it, believe and love it.
I'm not particular which vrsion of the Bible I use to start camp fires.
You just want to get heated by the flames I guess!
I just want to get the fire started to cook some hotdogs. LOL
Look what passes for humor around here. What a weenie roast. There is corn in your relish.
I use a KJ for checking, mainly because after 400 years all the errors of translation are known, but I use a wide variety for reading or quoting, mostly from on-line sources.
It's pretty much in my heart and head by now, so mainly I am seeking to save time writing out verses that are already known by me.
God speaks to us however He needs to, so if our English is not up to understanding His word, we go to simpler versions.
John 3 16:19 reads much the same in any version.The Word of God should live in your heart on a level too deep for words. That is the translation I use. I highly recommend it!
I think that it matters very little which version that we use when reading THE Jesus loves me this I know parts of scripture and the love thy neighbor as thy self verses .....BUT when studying prophesy You need not be reading of rewrite of someone elses translations because "sometimes" to change the meaning of a single word brings us to a different conclusion than was origionally intended.
One such instance is when the word "a TIME" is changed to "for a little while " or "a span of time" or such.
The words "A Time" in prophesy =s approx. 52.2 prophetic weeks and 62 weeks in prophesy is equal to approx 568 of our years.
And there are four seasons in a "Time"
As I said earler ... except in the case of understanding prophesy, it makes little if any difference which of the many versions of the bible that we study.I was just reading (albeit in a fiction book) a Jewish sage stating that the OT prophets were just preachers, albeit accurate preachers, describing what would happen to those (in this case the Jews) who rebelled against God.
Interesting proposal.....
Because there are also 'prophetic' preachers today, maybe we should pay more attention to what are the instructions to OUR generation?
Conceptualise..... (selah)I would have to agree that the OT prophets were "Preachers" though NOT self appointed as most are today.
according to scripture themselves, these "Prophets" were chosen by God and were given specific messages to give to the people.
These messages were addressed to those who were living under the covenant which THEY were breaking.
These prophesy were given to the descendants of Abraham concerning that covenant.
I see Daniel chapter nine as something similar to a "Pink Slip" a warning kinda like If you do not repent ..... "You are fired. And this is what is going to happen if YOU don't.
Well! those Hebrews were fired, they cleaned out their desk and were escorted out of the building exactly as stated. In 138 AD the entire population was escorted away and scattered through out the rest of the world. This is the opening of the seven seals ... then there was silence in heaven ...
before the seven trumpets began being sounded (338 AD)
Mt. Krakatau erupted sending the world into a mini Ice age, crop failures, starvation disease leading to the fall of the western Roman Empire. etc. etc. etc.Name one person you consider to be a prophet today. All the ones I've heard make that claim prove themselves to be liars. Which, I don't think fits the definition of the word prophet.
Don't listen to false prophets, the point was that there are preachers here today who still perform the task, I will try to dig some out for you, but frankly, they are not the ones who do TV stuff.
Off the top of my head, Derek Prince was one I would consider prophetic in the way he warned folk about how things were going to turn out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNnN0b16HIQ
Try to listen to the whole thing.....or at least the whole first section.
Edit: This was made about 20 years ago....I'll watch it when I get a chance. But, before I do I'll say some people say some things at some times which sound prophetic, or hit the mark if viewed from the right angle. That does not make a prophet. If it did, we would all be prophets.
Derek was a man of God who had an extraordinary amount of getting it right in his life!
Do listen, the main section starts about 8 minutes in, before that he is opening up with scripture, you may find that tedious, but what he states will interest you, i think....
I now use the JP Green Interlinear bible. There are many interlinears and most use modern Hebrew, not paleo (ancient) Hebrew (not found on the net.). The JP Green is the only complete interlinear available in English. This interlinear is keyed to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. Interlinears are a time saving tool to research the subtle nuances and layers of meanings within the ORIGINAL (not shouting) biblical languages and this one features the complete Hebrew/Aramic, Greek texts with a direct English rendering below each word, and also includes the literal translation of the bible in the outside column. The Hebrew is based on the Masororetic text and the Greek is from Textus Receptus. I also use about 9 other references including the KJV to try and come to an informed opinion. I truly thank a fellowshipper for leading me to these references.
Friends, I believed that the written Word of God we have today is complete for our faith and practice.
Faith and practice YES ... For understanding prophesy NO.
All prophecies in the scripture can be clearly understood as they are all stated int the Word of God. As we see things going on we clearly see the vivid reality of bible prophecies. We do not need other prophecy today to interpret prophecies of old.
No matter what translation one uses unless God illuminated the pages of that book we are still subject to deceptions because of the imperfections of the imperfect men and women who are doing the translating and our own imagination. The first thing everything needs to do is pray and asks God to shed His light on His word anything less would be leaning on our own understanding and the understanding of other men! There are just too many translations that are not saying same the thing. There’s only one who have all the answers and that is the author Himself, Jesus Christ!
I use King James because I use the strongs concordance with it.
- Gypsy Rose Leeposted 11 years ago0
The Bible I have I got when I was in 7th grade and I've used it since then. It was published by a Christian Society so I've never wondered about the version. I just read from it. I also have The Book on the Bible and a couple of Bible's in the Latvian language.
I've used the King James version for most of my life, but I've found many other translations to be very valuable in helping illuminate some passages.
I've also seen some versions butcher the meaning of some passages by leaving out critical details. For instance, CEV leaves out the mention of 3rd or 4th generation in Numbers 14:18. The Lamsa version clarifies the possible mistranslation of many passages which had errors because of similarities in Aramaic spelling. One misplaced dot changed the word used and possibly muddled the meaning in other versions.
There is still so much to learn from the Bible, but many people have stopped pushing the frontier, relying solely on other people's interpretations. That's sad.
For instance, I found a timeline in Genesis compatible with those of science. The seemingly outrageous longevity of the early patriarchs are far too short! But the ages given in Genesis pertain not to the individuals, but to the eponymous tribes, instead.Here's my take on Biblical translation. I have in recent years been reading different versions of the Bible. However, one thing still stands out for me, I can feel God's words come alive as I read. It's like He's sitting across from me having a regular conversation. There have been times when I have read the Bible that I didn't understand what I was reading. I guess some things in the Bible are not meant to be understood and we have to live and go through some situations in order to get some sort of clarity in the scriptures. All I can say is that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins and He rose on the third day and ascended into heaven. I still sometimes struggle with what I'm reading in His word, but I know that if I keep asking for His guidance, He will show me the way to a better understanding of His word. To me, if you're comfortable with reading whatever translation of the Bible, that's fine. You have to come to an understanding of God's word for yourself.
...as far as "translations" go, and the question of superiority, you're wasting your time wondering. Before the Bible was even translated into Latin, there were supposedly up to six different versions of the Old Testament alone, along with parts of it being scattered across Mesopotamia, constant war and trading of cities and territory... The Romans, Hebrews, and Greeks all got a piece... Even Jerome, the Saint tasked by the Pope to provide a Latin translation said, "there are almost as many 'texts' as 'manuscripts," meaning, too many differing, contradictory pieces! Let alone what the English did to the whole work... Inevitably , the pooch was screwed from the start, sister... No translation is superior.
As I study Bible for many decades I understand it more and more. But I concluded that Bible is the Manual of life, and not dead book to make an autopsy.
Now I am listening audio living Word in Hebrew language and it completed my joy.It seems to me that you are interested in manuscripts. That's good. By just pondering upon the vastness of manuscripts available today is a wonder. The written Word of God outlasts all attempts to eradicate it.
The same "written word of God" that was actually written by men, supposedly inspired or passed down by God... talking about translations, how are we to know that these men were able to accurately interpret what God wanted written? Or remember accurately what they were to account, I know most of the New Testament was written years after the supposed events. Right down to the origins, the authors themselves, things may have been lost in translation. The thread question was 'which translation is superior,' no one is attempting to eradicate the word here, I'm just saying in response to the question, the translations we have now are only what past generations have passed down. Ever played the game "Telephone," where one starts with a message, whispered down a line of people, the message gets changed, skewed from its original. I feel like the Bible we have now, with its versions, missing books, etc, probably isn't what an omnipotent God intended for us to have, if you believe in that.
“For eighteen centuries every engine of destruction that human science, philosophy, wit, reasoning or brutality could bring to bear against a book has been brought to bear against that book to stamp it out of the world, but it has a mightier hold on the world today than ever before. If that were man’s book it would have been annihilated and forgotten hundreds of years ago…” R A Torrey
No, for eighteen centuries it was preserved by the Catholic Church that exercised almost complete control over people's lives in some part of Europe or other. The bible has never been under any threat of being stamped out. This does mot preclude that it is a man's book; it indicates that people in sufficiently powerful positions believed it was the word of God.
Could God have ensured that those in power were his children, so that his word would be preserved? I think so. The bible was preserved for our use. The important parts are there. Again, that was my faith speaking.
No human effort can preserve anything except by God's providence. Men did not preserve God's word, God did.
Human beings preserve ancient scrips all over the world in museums. The Quran is still available in its original form, and the very original scripts have been preserved. Whereas the very earliest biblical manuscripts are copies of copies of copies, the originals have long been lost. Thus by your and Genaea's argument, God has made far more effort to preserve the Quran than the bible.
It was that Catholic Church that maintained the bible, human effort.Seems you "know" all about the texts of the bible. Were you there when they changed it? Please say yes. Because if you were not, it seems as you have preferred the lie rather than the truth. Your faith is in men who hate the bible, not God. And that is ok, if that is your preference.
Oh dear. You assume so much. You hold to a mystical belief that the bible had God's special preservation order on it, but you have no evidence for this claim. You just believe he must have done. Yet what you fail to take notice of is that all major religions, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, have their priests and scribes whose jobs it were to maintain their religious texts. Thus they still exist today. The bible has survived time, as has the Quran. What makes you think the bibe needed God's special attention beyond human effort and will to preserve it?
Where on Earth does your statement "Your faith is in men who hate the bible..," comes from? I completely fail to see how you draw this conclusion. Is it because I'm not a mystic like you?You seem to have the idea that the bible is not valid because of some thing that happened before you were born! You must believe someone, or draw your own conclusion based upon what you believe. Seems as if you have chosen that the bible is so mixed-up that you cannot give it power in your life.
If religious persons were charged with the task of preserving scripture, how then did the words of God get so tangled up in mire? Our monks were sleep when the adulterators came??? See, you must believe something. You have chosen men who say, "stay away from that bible, here's why..." I chose to believe the force that miraculously grabbed me from death TWICE, so that I may speak to you today. That force is my father God. I need no other proof of his existence. He has proven over and over to me that he is all I need. I am not telling you what i think. I know that the words I speak are true from experience. When you depend on God he reveals himself to you. He assures you that you are right for believing. It is a wondrously miraculous existence. No kidding.Yet more assumption. I have never said it is not valid. It is what it is. It represents what the authors believed God wanted them to write. You believe that in some mystical way God preserved it. I'm saying there is no evidence of that; that it has been preserved by the efforts of men just like any other religious texts, or indeed Shakespeare's plays.
If you were to look into the history of how the NT came together you would see that it most definitely is a man made compilation. Iraeneus dismissed all other gospels because in his view there could only be four as there were four winds and four corners to the Earth. The bishops had hundreds of documents to choose from but selected those thaf they believed were written by the apostles; decisions based on supposed authorship not content. 2 Peter is now believed to not have been written by Peter and it takes inspiration from the Book of Enoch for its fallen angels which is completely alien to the OT. Likewise Jude. Revelation contains Babylonian astrology for crying out loud.
Since when for example does Paul's sermons become scripture? That's like saying the sermons of a Church pastor are scripture. The gospels represent what the disciples remembered from Jesus ministry, they are their memoirs. Does that make them scripture?
No it has no power; it is not some mystical magic book. The bible is not the Word of God; it is Messiah who is the Word of God, the Word that became flesh. To think that the bible is the Word of God is to be like the Pharisees who believed that in the text they had eternal life.
I have never questioned your faith in God, why do you question mine?I do not question your faith in God. By the way, isn't the earth round? No corners on a ball, from my recollection. They believed the earth was flat then, right? The bible lives because the law of God never changes. We have a standard. The bible illustrates that standard. It tells the follower all about Jesus, the cornerstone of our faith. The important stuff is there. God speaks the same language.
Actually, for most of that time the RCC attempted to keep the bible from the populace, it was the Genever bible that ensured that there was a version outside of Latin for folk to read, and Mr Guttenberg who made it possible.
What has happened are many attempts to change the context and meaning of the bible into more 'user friendly' versions that tickle ears and provide rat holes for folk to run into who do not like what the bible actually states.
The apostasy is alive and well, and we are seemingly on the way to a conclusion.Those attempts in the past to adulterate the scripture never succeed. That's the marvel in God's Word. Yes gross apostasy is alive today and that means the coming of the Lord is nearer than yesterday.
While myself -and others- might admire your zealous approach to Philos, Jess, I must remind you of these infallible points:
Scripture is strictly Torah. The added elements of the four epistles, remarks {acts} and letters are not -repeat not scripture. They are explanatory, suggestive texts, based on issues, conversations and events surrounding Moshiach fulfillment and those of the early Hebrew 'churches' -who might I add were horribly treated by Saul, then by the Romans -- as well as introducing Torah + mandatory salvation rituals to non-Hebrews, known as pagans or Gentiles. {These rules were later enforced violently upon them when Rome changed from polytheism to monotheism -thanks, again, to Saul.
Furthermore, the 'adulteration' occurred a long time ago, when specific texts were selectively added and neglected from the compilation. Important books of Torah purposefully left out. New letters, new epistles have been unearthed from Egypt to Syria and from beneath the sea. Why have they been neglected? Because to add them destroys the 'authority absolute' of the church, who claimed only these texts within are the truth, are the word. If one reads the letter or Sophia of Moshiach, the story changes greatly. So does the epistle of Tomas, in India and Yon's hidden ledgers -even the diary of Mary M.
2. Not one yod of these texts has any power whatsoever. And saying one should marvel that these are the Word {ruach, pneuma, power} of Creator is ridiculous and cultist. So cultist, that doctrine upon doctrine {teachings} about demons {paganism 101}, wars of angels, an entity superior titled Satan/Lucifer/Devil, plus rapture and tribulations and rules, rules rules, have grown to fruition. Fruit on trees the size of evergreens. Fruit that is killing humans faster than bullets. All false, all used to justify continued control over people, continued fear among people, continued hiding of the Truth.
Just as the Hebrews believed Moshiach was coming as a King to re-establish the temple and an actual throne, to rule Israel in peace and freedom from oppression, so now believers think the same of Moshiach return. Yet, we see the actual work is much different than originally perceived by the keepers of the whole Law and all its parts -prophecy and prose. Furthermore, it proves -beyond a shadow of any doubt- that the book IS worshiped daily, hourly, minute to millisecond. At least the Hebrew idols were made of gold, not paper. And still it shows how Creator is not actually, truly loved by the many, as they claim. No, instead the book and words in it are loved, adored, honored, cherished, memorized, quoted and forced upon others as absolute. Even the children of ba`al would be dismayed.
James.And there you have it, from the "horse's" fingertips. See, Jacharless knows for sure, he attended the "word adulteration" ceremonies. Right???
Still attending services, I see 
Those word adulteration ceremonies are unnecessary. Stop by and see a rabbi. He'll show you what parts of actual scripture are missing. Then, pop by the Smithsonian and see the list of texts left out and the list of texts discovered. And definitely be sure to bring your bible and read it on the train. Cuz you know you need the 'word of god' in your hand at all times post-Hebrew! Meditate on that word all day. ALL day. Eat them apples, Eve, eat `em like there is no tomorrow. Wash it down with a holy-ghost-hallelujah-in-jesus-name-evoking-hymn-of-craze-err-praise-god-sister-can-you-feel-me-gotta-save-somebody-from-the-devil-can-i-get-a-witness-on-this?!
Mmm, soooo good, like mayo. It ain't a sandwich without it, right?
Oh, and I see your "God" still on the toilet....
Now, where did I put that jawbone.
James.We don't have to take the bible everywhere we go. Though some of us do. Visiting the places you mentioned would only confirm for me, my position. Where you see missing/deleted/added text, I see a good attempt to do what man has never been able to do: change God's word. Where you see proof of a cover-up to fool God's children, I see another attempt to offer those "apples". Yeah, i like fruit, a little and mayo a lot! But not THAT much. The God that lives in my heart, agrees fully with the bible. This is where the quoting comes in.
Ha! all or nothing, right? No nibbling allowed. Every line, every precept, remember? All of it! I do not need to prove a cover up. You are proving it in every word. My place is simply to edify.
Eat those apples Eve. Extra, extra mayo. All of them. That is the rule, right? And rules are rules. If you break one rule you break all rules, right? Or is it now one kind of sin is greater or less than another kind?
Sorry, am still trying to find the jawbone.
James.Weren't you reading? My heart agrees that ALL of it is true. The discarded versions could be true too! A banished play??? It is not my job to figure out if it is "authentic". What matters is that it all ties together and the end result was Jesus who made it all perfect. Ok?
it just agrees with the spirit within me.Hmm, and did you, or did you not expressly tell me, on more than one occasion, you do not trust your heart? Secondly, it is your "job" to find out if the text is authentic, just as any other individual tests the authenticity of anything. Especially when it comes to a book you claim is above any other, every other -including the words of other humans- as well as put above Creator -or rather placed as a veil, an unnecessary buffer zone, between you and Creator. So, if the text agrees with your spirit, your heart then it is time for a check-up from the neck-up, put your mind into the grind and awaken to the Spirit?
Point being this: no text can bring you to salvation-manifest, that is the transformation, the actual Passover, that passing from death {already happening in each one} to Life {waiting, brooding, hovering over the Genesis of your heart, your spirit} fulfilling that promise -making you a Living Testimony, making you the Living Word of Creator.
James.Didn't I tell you that I will not be able to rise to your level of thinking? God is in my heart yes, w/o God there, no trust. The word, bible brings God with it. The authenticity of it is not a matter of mine, simply because I already believe it is so. No need to check it. To me, that is like looking under God's robe. He is real to me, and he confirmed that the bible is real, to me. Your words sound foreign.
So, just to be clear, you are stating this:
God is in your heart, his word.
You do not trust your heart, which is your spirit.
The Spirit is Truth and cannot be divided.
You do not trust God, who is in your heart, your spirit, and is the Spirit, which is Truth.
Therefore you cleave to the bible, the outward text, to justify that lack of trust in the One who made you. I smell fear in your words, not practical faith.
As for rising to a level of thinking, you would be pleasantly surprised to hear: all humans have exactly the same ability. Why should you be any less able than myself or another. Equally created, equally able, equally given a measure of faith. Because he is no respecter of persons. He is impartial.
And what Moshiach did, what he was perfected into, is exactly what you, me, every human are to be perfected into; to walk the Way, Walk within the Spirit. We are not to rest on our laurels, bury our heads in the sands of time {the text} nor take {use, steal} Moshiach Testimony as our own. Each is to have a testimony built in them. Each is to become a Living Testimony, the Living, Breathing Word which is what we are, what our spirit is and why we were created. To be and express the Perfect. Show me, absolutely, unequivocally, how the text -the bible- can bring that about and I will never bother you again. That is a promise.
James.Morning;) uh...First, I'd like to say that you are fighting what Jesus himself embraced. Is that Moshiac? Our faith rests in what he did, to make us able to even talk to the father.
My heart with all it's decisions, is mine. The heart of God must be sought after. The spirit must be learned about. Now, your trust that your heart, the heart that Eve and her eaten fruit had, is solid enough to speak as God lives within you w/o any effort on your part, is simply foreign. God actually spoke to Adam. Still, Adam disobeyed a DIRECT order. Is that God living within?
Question??? How did you find out all that you know about the spirit of God? Was it biblical scripture that brought you to your conclusions? Since I know that your answer is no, i would like to ask from where? God himself told you that the bible was not needed? I remember speaking to you before about God seeing that his children, who did not listen faithfully, needed written words. He saw it being so needed, that word, written, that he broke a rock and burned those words in it and then had them reverence and carry it around. Our minds play tricks on us. I thought every one knew that. God doesn't play. Our hearts are flawed with our own understanding.Moshiach = Messiah or AnointedWhich is precisely stealing and precisely why, for the last 2000 years, the Kingdom of Heaven has been hidden from the world. A measure of faith is given to each one. And if given to each one, then each one must produce fruit or be cut off {die}. But, to justify the lack of that fruit, believers -and nonbelievers lean on his testimony or the text. Same as the Hebrews leaned on Abram and called him their father; why they leaned on Moshe {Moses} and the Scriptures.If you understood "Jesus" messages, you would not say that. And if the Spirit was truly guiding, you would not even think such a thing.More half-truths. If the Spirit is in you, then the Father is in you also. The Word of Truth. Just that drop of Himself, His spirit is your heart. That Breath of Himself - His word. Are you seeing it yet?That is ridiculous! How can you possibly learn about what you already know? What is already in you to know and understand? What must be done is complete trust in the heart -in the Spirit -in the Word -in the Father, who lives in you.Ha! You are completely misunderstanding me. The fruit YOU are offering is Eve's fruit -that fruit is called the Knowledge of Good-Evil aka Sin aka The Law of Sin-Death aka Scripture. I cannot eat of it any longer. I did for years and every time I ate it, I felt like puking, but like a dog, went back and ate my own puke again. Stuffing that fruit in like there was no tomorrow. All around me was condemnation in the words, no joy, no reality of Eternal Life. Not one around me -not minister, shaman, ditch digger, intellectual, grave robber or premed prostitute. Millions upon millions of walking dead -zombies. Feeding off each other; feeding off the flesh of another, just to stay alive, parasites of good intentions, even though they were already dead... the rest of that explanation is for another time. Exactly. He speaks the same -yesterday, today, forever. So everything I have told you lines up with this. Creator does not need a book to mediate his voice or speak to his people.It was not an order. Creator is not militaristic. It was a warning, not a command. The warning to Adam, and us all: Eat of Reason {your own perception of thinking versus correct thinking already given to you} and you will die. Why? Because Reason {good-evil} is the division of Understanding. It divides us from the Truth and without Truth we die -body, brain, and spirit. Have known since I can remember. As I grew up, I reasoned and followed the path through education of the world, of the sciences and religions, of spiritual-but-not-religious, of hard work, success and above all scripture -every line, every precept. Until one day, I was shown just how far away from the Spirit I had gone. Even Moshe didn't go that deep into the desert. I had passionately and determinately isolated myself -by my own hand- from the One who made me, even as the words in the book were being taught to hundreds of thousands by my own mouth.No. The scriptures did not prove the words in them. So, that left only one option. Let go, let God. But still that was not enough because my ego -my truth- was in the way. I protected the text with all my being; protected my life, my ego, my desire to know salvation with all my might, soul, strength. At that moment this event happened that is ineffable.The words in the book are irrelevant, regardless of what they say. The action of faith -the sprouting of that seed is what proved it. Yes, the spirit showed me that He had always been with me, always in me. My every thought he was trying to correct. My every move he was trying to direct me toward the manifestation of immortality -of salvation -of that complete Restoration.He did that to prove that words, nor texts, nor rituals -not even belief- can bring anyone to salvation. The Hebrews -the most stubborn, stiff-necked of people were definitely the "chosen" ones. lol. How perfect can that be! Choose the most stubborn of all people to carry the burden of ultimate stubbornness, ultimate rules, ultimate measure of sin-death. A system that could do nothing else but prove how feeble mans thinking was. How silly it was for him to continue believing the external had even the slightest chance of revealing righteousness. But that wasn't enough, so they added even more rules to it! Ha! Even while carrying it, as heavy as it was, for 40 years around the dry, hot, windblown, relentless desert, they never got it. They, instead built a temple around the tablets, the manna and staff and worshiped before it... That is a mess of contradiction. First, the heart is not flawed and neither is the mind.
The flaw is our perception of thinking.
That perception -that eating good-evil is the cause of all the trouble. That perception, that method is called Ego, Reason, ha-satan. Even now you are reasoning to try and understand, to remain, to justify, to protect what it is you need to believe is the truth. Which is the exact same stiff-necked approach the Hebrews tried. And let me reassure you, a Hebrew is probably the best of reasoners, best of advisers and best of lawmakers. Like the saying goes, put two Hebrews in a room of reason and you can guarantee getting three opinions. Now you know why 1+ 1 =3 lol. That is how well, how meticulously they have perfected the craft of reason. Studying, dividing line, after line, after line of knowledge given to us all from the beginning. And as I said earlier, the Spirit is hovering, brooding -just like He did at the beginning of creation. He is waiting for each of us to just let go of that last little, bitty thread of fear, doubt, reason and --- wait for it --- BAM, New creation; New Wine sack; New and Everlasting Perfect Walk; Passover fulfilled! Transformed! Illuminated! Restored to the Ineffable Immortality! A Living Testimony of the Glory of Creator. I cannot even find enough metaphors to explain it. This is the actual Good News. The bible? The bible teaches sin and death. The bible is all about sin and death, cover to cover. The Spirit teaches this. The Spirit has taught me and continues to. The Authority -as you once asked me- that I speak with is that same Spirit who lifted up the Firstborn --of many. Even now, as I type, He is teaching me -reminding/renewing every fiber of thinking, every body part and growing that heart in me. Reversing the effects of ego, watering the heart with Life, so that harvest -that transformation can happen -so that testimony might be proven true and witnessed by many; so they too receive the Gift of Restoration given to them before they even came into being. No bible can do that. Not one iota of it. Never could, never will...
JamesYou are so busy making up definitions that you have missed my points. You take what you know of the scriptures an twist til you make jachjuice. Foreign. Stop defining definitions. It just is not that complicated.
What definitions? What points? What twist of scripture?
Oh, wait...Ha! You are clever girl. But I'm not biting. If I chose to, be certain we could do a 1845 page marathon thread of the text.You use the words in the bible to validate your points of it not being necessary. That is a twist. I don't understand most if what you say, the kingdom of God is not that complicated. You must define every other word, which makes your posts nearly impossible to get through.
What words? Show me. I have quoted no scripture.Even still, how is using them a twist? If I use words -or a language- you understand, to relate to your thinking, you call it a twist and then say those words are foreign?You do understand...So you know what the Kingdom of god, of Heaven is, really? This I must hear. Tell me, what is the kingdom of God?Well, firstly, s l o w down and read, versus skimming to pick up a quick rebuttal. Slow down and read fully what I am saying. Process it fully and then make a determination -a response. And, yes, I define every word because it relates to the language you prefer. And the rules of that language say, again, every line, every precept -every single word -every yod -every dot.
Now, if I were to speak to you without a parable, as I do Liz, Emile, Penny, Kevin, Dean, Mark, John, Vlad and many many more, just here on HP, in their language, would you understand it? So, I speak to each in a language they know and can relate to. And likewise listen to them in their language and respond in kind. Why does your own language -the text- bother you then?
James.It is not my text which befuddles. It is the way you "use" it as you do.
S l o w down and read YOUR posts??? You kiddn'? It is first so visually overwhelming. I must scroll 4 or 5 times to get to the end, by which time, I have already forgotten the beginning. Different, had I come for your time-consuming and confusing lecture. But, in a conversation, so rude. God is not the author of confusion. He does not write your words.lolWell, if two paragraphs causes you that much trouble, do not read them and reply. Easy.How can you say my words are confusing, when a sentence ago you said you could not get through them, or remember. Second, how would you know Gods words, when you only read the bible and not listen to your heart. That's called division -a double-mindedness. Third, if you think me rude, you are reading my words based on your perception. I think you are looking for reason to see my words as such to defend and protect the one-liner, typical, bible-sound bite mentality...
AND once more -actually for the umpteenth time you have not answered another one of my questions to you: what is the Kingdom of God, of Heaven?
James.The kingdom of God is composed of all that accept what he says to accept. God's children.
That is a bunch of double talk. Typical bible-bite, white-washed mumbo-jumbo.
You cannot even tell me - you, as a messenger of the good news, of salvation- what that Kingdom is...I think I am almost there. You take a stab. Though i know you are probably already typing out your opinion. I don't have ALL of God's messages, only a few.
So, that is a no then. No problem, was just curious. And since you cannot answer this simple question, I see no scenario of getting answers to my other questions, which you have carefully evaded and flipped into more questions.
JamesNow I just know that you can set me straight here, right? Wilst thou leave me in such a vulnerable position as to, finally, NOT impart a slice of knowledge, which leads to wisdom, which, if you are not careful, leads to rubbers?
Sorry, Eve, err Genaea, there are people out there who really do want the good news, freedom from the Law of Sin and Death. The Truth about who they are and why Creator made them. No need to set you straight, you have the bible... and I have no idea what the connection between knowledge, wisdom and rubbers is, so I'll leave you to it.
James.
Division/doublemindedness is worldview vs Godlyview. You cannot serve two masters. God is not you. He is father of us all but do we all choose his way? Do we all desire his way? Insert unequivocal NO here.
Please dont misunderstand, God is not in you. I was sayng that he must be sought, then depended on.
Also, you cannot only hear the word, but do it too. You are doing too much. Our own reasoning does not work.
You nearly make it impossible to hear you when you ramble.
I finally have gotten to the end of your lecture. You use a lot of the biblical information provided to form your conclusions. You add a lot of self to it though. Jesus did not say close your bibles, im passing out the spirit so now everybody do your thing! He always showed them how to interpret correctly the words that they had been given. The inside of man is kinda wretched w/o the spirit of God. Jesus told those that added to the word, their own flavor, the inside of your cup is unclean. You sure you want to argue with that?
Huzzah!Again, don't tell me, show me. Show me my quoted scriptures and my supposed self-addition to it.Jesus did not have a bible, nor even a copy of Torah. No one did, except the priests hiding in the temple and passing out ridiculousness, like you and every other bible worshiper. Moshiach spoke, like me, from the heart. The only people he ever quoted Torah to were the priests -because it was their language. to fishermen he talked fish. to tax collector and the wealthy he talked money. to whores, the same. The rest were paraphrases, parables that were not even in Torah. Why do not you get that yet? Oh wait, because you think the heart is wretched, unclean, evil and you do not trust your heart, only the bible, even though you claim God -who is perfect- his spirit, lives in you.
James
As long as people adore the KJV they buy into the changed 'Word of God', and boy they changed it. Hundreds of corrections to the translation over the centuries, and you still think that English bibles are the Word of God that man cannot change? I give you tge example I gave John earlier: the KJV translators deliberately mistranslated 'Grave' and 'Sheol' as 'hell' in the OT 62 times knowing the imagery and accepted understanding of hell, knowing that this hell is completely alien to the Hebrews. Still think that bible in your hand is the unadulterated Word of God? Still think you can trust those translators not to push the doctrines that they expect you to accept?
Again, God speaks the same language. He knows them all. Grave/hell debate... Is it necessary? Dead is dead, right? You don't have to believe in hell to be saved. You must believe the stuff about Jesus. You can't know what he said w/o the accounts of those who were there. Who's report do you believe???
jacharless, this is not to debate with you but to let you propound your points infallible unchallenged is to agree with with you. By infallible means your saying that your humanistic philosophy is higher equal with the scripture. The Bible has no need to prove its innate infallibility. If you just study the scripture with an open heart, you will say that you are wrong and the Bible is true. That if, you are humble enough to see and accept the fact.
I would laugh at this statement, but really, it is not even remotely funny anymore.
The longer you study the bible [aka the Law of Sin-Death, aka Scripture, good-evil, righteous-unrighteous, clean-unclean] the longer you will believe in sin, be of two minds, and the more you will die -until your are dead in every form possible. Reason -the Knowledge of what is good-evil- is contained within it.
All Torah, which is scripture, is a complete pointing to the Work completed. What is that Work? Fulfillment of the entire Law of Sin-Death and entire Restoration to Life. All parts of the Law -before it came and after. All prophecy and prose within it. So, yes, the bible is infallible - it is the Infallible book of Sin-Death.
So, yes, eat the fruit of it. All day, everyday. Bind it between your eyes, wrap its pages around your right arm. Meditate on it day and night. Remember every yod and be sure to quote it loudly or in a whisper. Staple around your door posts, so you remember it, when you go in and when you depart. Continue to worship, adore, admire, marvel at its unchallenged, undeniable power - of death.
Not one word in the text can bring you the understanding of that salvation. Not one letter of a word within can keep you from the grave, nor can it give you life.
James.Whew!!! I thought you've been talking about the bible all this time
what powerless work are you talkin about?I was talking aobut the bible. Did you not read what I wrote? and again
JamesThanks for your permission. I know God is in those pages. I know his light shines through the words. I know that it is authorized and valid. The God within my spirit agrees. You and your disrespect is evident of what the bible said would happen to one in your position. The word is alive. Buy a new one. Don't use markings of any kind. Ask first. He gives it to us all liberally, and he don't upbraid.
Yes the RCC made every effort to obscure the bible behind Latin but nevertheless it was preserved by human effort and was not in danger of being stamped out.
From what I've read from the KJV, the NIV, NLT, the Message, etc, the translations are very much biased by the beliefs and motives of the translators, that is to continue to push Christian politically correct orthodoxy aka hellfire. Thus none of these translations can be considered the word of God. To have any hope of understanding the bible, we must read from literal translations.So God, was incapable of delivering what He wanted to say to humanity..... without them being able to read Aramaic in the original form?
That seems like a pretty small god you are following.
I prefer to believe that God told us EXACTLY what He meant, and has hed the capacity to deliver it through the ages.
In the Dark Ages it was constricted, now it is open, and God has sent deception to deceive even the elect.... IF that is possible.
Could ALL of the believers currently alive be deceived, except your small group?
If that is so, then your heaven will be either very small or full to the brim with ALL of humanity, you would think all would be there, God seems to think differently.Read any of prefaces in the popular translations, and you will find such statements that the translators have given us a bible that reflects what they believed the source scripts were wanting to convey using idioms and figures of speech we are familiar with, rather than a word for word literal translation. Thus the word has been modified and we get a bible in accordance with the beliefs of the translators. For example, KJV uses the word 'hell' throughout the OT instead of 'grave' or 'Sheol' knowing full well the imagery hell presents and knowing full well that hell is completely alien to the Hebrews and the apostles.
You suggested some translations tickle the ears. Is this a suggestion that they pander to the liberals. I would say the contrary, they pander to a strings attached gospel of exclusivity.
I have never suggested that God has sent a deception to the orthodox Church. I have suggested that the orthodox chooses it's traditions of men that made the word of God of null effect, and it resists anyone who chooses to think for themself, search for themself, and brands those that do not comply to its rigid doctrines and creeds as heretics or "not a proper Christian".
Please cite one attempt to kill the bible.
In Europe it was common to burn the Bibles.
But these were individual copies. It's not as if the bible was ever under any threat.
When the Bible was first written, the Roman Catholic Church tried to keep it from the public - only priests were allowed to read it. It was only after it was translated into English that the public became privy to it. That was started in England.
- genaeaposted 11 years ago0
Jacharless, you never told me where you got all your new information about God. Seems to me, you just went and mofified what was in the bible. We cannot add to it.
- genaeaposted 11 years ago0
Jach, the parables were so that the people could understand the principles. Now, where do you think the principles came from? His heart, that he admitted was not the same when he said, not my will? THE will comes from the father, who had it written throughout the ages that he would come to die. Did you hear me say WRITTEN?
I use the Life Application Bible, but also enjoy the Good News Translation. For sentimental reasons, I love The Way which was our college Bible but which has gone out of print:(
I read the New World Translstion. it isnt better as i have several other versions but it is easier to read and compare verses
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