Christians A question For You

Jump to Last Post 1-43 of 43 discussions (177 posts)

66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
Exactly what is your definition of New Age?
reply report
1. 57
  Jouneyman2posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't define myself as being a Christain, but in what sense are you speaking of "new age"? In the sense of the passage of time or as a religion / religious belief system?
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A bit back in this thread I said wht it was tht I was asking. New Age as in Christins don't like New Age or the movement. So I was asking what thier definition of New Age was.
  reply report
  57
  Jouneyman2posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  In Biblical terms "age" refers to a period of time. As in 'Church Age", "Age of the Gentiles," etc.
  
  As for the "New Age Movement" .... my definition may be a bit out of "time". In my day New Age was wizards, fairies, higher plateaus, 'resonances", ghosts, etc, etc. It was a phase I passed through in my late teens / early twenties.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have been told that it is now anything to do with Wicca, Earth processes as well as the human body being taken care of from a natural point of view, Karma or Cause and Effect, and Re-incarnation.
  Now I have proven that Karma is in the Bible and it is practiced therein all the time.
  Some have told me that I preach outside of what Christ teaches and consider that one of Satans doing......., but that is not so as I have already proven one of thier faulty conclusions on that.
  Now with re-incarnation, there is another thread here on that and I will leave it there, but for general purposes I have almost proven that it does exist and then the backlash is that I am reading into the bible what is not there or they are the only ones who know for a fact that they are the only ones who are correct.
  
  About that---they need to prove that it doesn't exist, becauue I am tired of proving that it does. They need to supposrt their claims now ........so it is now in their court.
  reply report
  57
  Jouneyman2posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'll check out that thread, but I'm pretty sure you have not been presented with a credible explanation regarding that topic.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
  
  I replied to your posting in a manner in which I have not seen others do here, yet it is a manner in which I am accustomed to doing because it allows me to respond to parts of a posting without re-typing or copy / pasting each part individually as I reply to it. My comments are noted within the >>> <<< marks. If this is confusing let me know and I will change it.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The definition of Karma was made pretty clear in my post. What do you not understand of the definition?
  
  I shall post the whole of Acts then so that you will understand what I am talking about and not just the one verse you seem to have a mis understanding of.
  If you had read my profile and the links thereon you would have a better understanding of where I am coming from in my beliefs.
  
  So here is the chapter in it's entirety:
  The verse in question has astericks before and after it. Verse 34.
  
  "Acts 2 (Young's Literal Translation)
  
  Acts 2
  1And in the day of the Pentecost being fulfilled, they were all with one accord at the same place,
  
  2and there came suddenly out of the heaven a sound as of a bearing violent breath, and it filled all the house where they were sitting,
  
  3and there appeared to them divided tongues, as it were of fire; it sat also upon each one of them,
  
  4and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, according as the Spirit was giving them to declare.
  
  5And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation of those under the heaven,
  
  6and the rumour of this having come, the multitude came together, and was confounded, because they were each one hearing them speaking in his proper dialect,
  
  7and they were all amazed, and did wonder, saying one unto another, `Lo, are not all these who are speaking Galileans?
  
  8and how do we hear, each in our proper dialect, in which we were born?
  
  9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and those dwelling in Mesopotamia, in Judea also, and Cappadocia, Pontus, and Asia,
  
  10Phrygia also, and Pamphylia, Egypt, and the parts of Libya, that [are] along Cyrene, and the strangers of Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
  
  11Cretes and Arabians, we did hear them speaking in our tongues the great things of God.'
  
  12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one unto another, `What would this wish to be?'
  
  13and others mocking said, -- `They are full of sweet wine;'
  
  14and Peter having stood up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and declared to them, `Men, Jews! and all those dwelling in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and harken to my sayings,
  
  15for these are not drunken, as ye take it up, for it is the third hour of the day.
  
  16`But this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel:
  
  17And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
  
  18and also upon My men-servants, and upon My maid-servants, in those days, I will pour out of My Spirit, and they shall prophesy;
  
  19and I will give wonders in the heaven above, and signs upon the earth beneath -- blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke,
  
  20the sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the coming of the day of the Lord -- the great and illustrious;
  
  21and it shall be, every one -- whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, he shall be saved.
  
  22`Men, Israelites! hear these words, Jesus the Nazarene, a man approved of God among you by mighty works, and wonders, and signs, that God did through him in the midst of you, according as also ye yourselves have known;
  
  23this one, by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, being given out, having taken by lawless hands, having crucified -- ye did slay;
  
  24whom God did raise up, having loosed the pains of the death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it,
  
  25for David saith in regard to him: I foresaw the Lord always before me -- because He is on my right hand -- that I may not be moved;
  
  26because of this was my heart cheered, and my tongue was glad, and yet -- my flesh also shall rest on hope,
  
  27because Thou wilt not leave my soul to hades, nor wilt Thou give Thy Kind One to see corruption;
  
  28Thou didst make known to me ways of life, Thou shalt fill me with joy with Thy countenance.
  
  29`Men, brethren! it is permitted to speak with freedom unto you concerning the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is among us unto this day;
  
  30a prophet, therefore, being, and knowing that with an oath God did swear to him, out of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Christ, to sit upon his throne,
  
  31having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
  
  32`This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses;
  
  33at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear;
  
  *********34for David did not go up to the heavens, and he saith himself: The Lord saith to my lord, Sit thou at my right hand, ********
  
  35till I make thy foes thy footstool;
  
  36assuredly, therefore, let all the house of Israel know, that both Lord and Christ did God make him -- this Jesus whom ye did crucify.'
  
  37And having heard, they were pricked to the heart; they say also to Peter, and to the rest of the apostles, `What shall we do, men, brethren?'
  
  38and Peter said unto them, `Reform, and be baptized each of you on the name of Jesus Christ, to remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit,
  
  39for to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all those afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call.'
  
  40Also with many more other words he was testifying and exhorting, saying, `Be saved from this perverse generation;'
  
  41then those, indeed, who did gladly receive his word were baptized, and there were added on that day, as it were, three thousand souls,
  
  42and they were continuing stedfastly in the teaching of the apostles, and the fellowship, and the breaking of the bread, and the prayers.
  
  43And fear came on every soul, many wonders also and signs were being done through the apostles,
  
  44and all those believing were at the same place, and had all things common,
  
  45and the possessions and the goods they were selling, and were parting them to all, according as any one had need.
  
  46Daily also continuing with one accord in the temple, breaking also at every house bread, they were partaking of food in gladness and simplicity of heart,
  
  47praising God, and having favour with all the people, and the Lord was adding those being saved every day to the assembly. "
  reply report
2. 0
  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My definition of new age is a belief that everything is right no matter what it is. It accepts everything, as long as what it accepts accepts everything. This includes satanism to the extreme.
  reply report
  57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  May I ask how you came to this conclusion?
  reply report
  0
  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have studied a lot of new age beliefs. They teach tolerance and acceptance, yet they fight against Christianity, Islam and Judaism, because these three do not tolerate other beliefs.
  reply report
  57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And this leads you to think that they accept and encourage extreme satanism? (whatever that is).
  
  I thought Jesus taught tolerance and acceptance. Silly me.
  
  Although, I am keen to know what new age beliefs you have studied that show they fight against the big three political religions.
  reply report
  0
  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus did not teach tolerance. Jesus taught repentance and salvation. Sin never was tolerated by Him.
  
  Aleister Crowley was an extreme satanist. His followers include Anton LeVay, Gerald Gardner, Aldous Huxley, Michael Acquino, Charles Manson, Richard Ramirez also known as the Night Stalker, etc. . .
  
  I am sure you can see a pattern there. This was extreme satanism and still is in fact around today. Sacrifices made to Satan occur more than we know. The worst thing about it's truth is hidden to keep the followers from knowing who they truly follow. If people had truly realized what they were following, they would not have fallen prey so easily to it.
  
  They fight against Christianity because we do not accept their beliefs as valid.
  
  "An edit on this comment. The word valid should be right in the above sentence. "
  reply report
  68
  Nickny79posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am curious as to what New Age beliefs you have studied.
  reply report
  0
  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This is hard to answer. New Age encompasses so many different things, yet they all believe to lead to the same place or height. They believe they are God or will become God eventually after being born many times over until they get things right.
  reply report
  57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sir Dent -
  
  For once, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and NOT assume you are being deliberately obtuse. But I will make a few points.
  
  1. You have twisted tolerance of other's beliefs into tolerance of sin. Not really sure why you did that. Care to explain?
  
  Myself - I live a sinless life. Sin does not exist for me.
  
  2. You seem to have a very odd view of "New age" because I can assure you it in no way accepts your version of extreme satanism.
  
  Having spent 10 years as a massage therapist, I am intimately familiar with new age beliefs and practices. And no one I know would advocate such practices.
  
  I can recommend the writings of Judith Anodea, and an examination of crystal healing, the chakras, Yoga, American Indian sweat lodges, massage therapy, reflexology, and wicca as good starting points to re-examine your opinion of "New age."
  
  Me? - it seems more like "Old age" including an appreciation of Mother Earth, an understanding of our part in the scheme of things and respect for other's beliefs, but pretty negative towards the political religions - including satanism.
  
  3. You seem of the opinion that killing people in the name of satan is somehow worse than killing people in the name of Jesus. Care to explain?
  
  I can feel your fear of this "New age" - do not fear, it is merely returning to our roots, where we have no need of a savior and we are one with the earth.
  reply report
  0
  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Tolerance of sin is tolerance of anything that God is against. Just because you believe you have never sinned doesn't make it so. You don't see sin even though it is there. Much the same as you can't really see the wind, but you see and feel the effects of it. Sin does have an effect which is seen daily by someone. The wages of sin is death. Until sin entered into the world, there was no death.
  
  When everything is tolerated, sin is likewise tolerated.
  
  Satan is a liar. It does't matter who he lies to or what lies he tells. Anton LeVay was a satanist. I'm sure you know a lot about him and how he formed the Church of Satan. Let me give you a few of direct quotes he made.
  
  “If they’re at all intelligent [other true Satanist] …they’ll realize that there’s only so much I can say publicly…I will not advance things in print which make my position untenable…How long would the Church of Satan have lasted if I hadn’t appeased and outraged in just the right combination? It required a certain amount of discretion and diplomacy to balance the outrage.” (Lucifer Rising, p. 133)[b]
  
  Close attention should be made to what is italicized. It isnt everything he believes in that is mentioned publicly, but much is still in secret. What ius hidden is what is really dangerous. Some came out and told the truth about satanism, but yet it seems few believe them.
  
  Michael Aquino on the Oprah show made the statement [b]“We are not servants of some God,” declared Aquino; “we are our own god’s!” This also falls in line with new age beliefs. So much so that it seemes to shock Oprah, though it didn't change her outlook. She responded to Aquino with “Well, the way you explain this is very the way a lot of people who are into metaphysics now and the New Age movement and New Age thinking, they say the very same thing. Are you saying that it’s the same?”
  
  I can get more info for you if necessary.
  
  I haven't said anything about killing in Jesus name. I merely pointed out that satanic sacrificial murders have taken place. I am not an advocate of violence, but I know that there are times when violence is inevitable.
  
  Not sure if I answered you thoroughly enough. You can let me know and I'll work on it more when I can.
  reply report
3. 60
  Gunkeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I shall give somrthing that will give to you the truth about everything you would like to know, God, the church, christians, and the bible. A hint!! did you know that no one one the planet has FREE WILL. which means God is in total control of His creation, and every human being, good and evil. If you go to church you do not yet belong to God. Rev. 18. 4 Come out of her my people, do not be partakers of her sins. www.bible-truths.com
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Go read ans watch my hub: http://hubpages.com/hub/Peters-Foundati … -Obsession
  
  If you have dial up and can't watch the video's then go and rent a DVD by the name of:
  Empires: Peter and Paul and the Christian Revolution‏
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So tll me if your daughter or son was killed by a murderer you would give him the freedom to do it again because he didn't have FREE WILL to not do what he did? How does that work for you?
  
  Whose are you supposed to come out of? Your verse------The whole pargraph and not a verse taken out of context:
  
  Revelation 18
  1And after these things I saw another messenger coming down out of the heaven, having great authority, and the earth was lightened from his glory,
  
  2and he did cry in might -- a great voice, saying, `Fall, fall did Babylon the great, and she became a habitation of demons, and a hold of every unclean spirit, and a hold of every unclean and hateful bird,
  
  3because of the wine of the wrath of her whoredom have all the nations drunk, and the kings of the earth with her did commit whoredom, and merchants of the earth from the power of her revel were made rich.
  
  4And I heard another voice out of the heaven, saying, `Come forth out of her, My people, that ye may not partake with her sins, and that ye may not receive of her plagues,
  
  5because her sins did follow -- unto the heaven, and God did remember her unrighteousness.
  
  6Render to her as also she did render to you, and double to her doubles according to her works; in the cup that she did mingle mingle to her double.
  
  ~~~~~~~~~~
  Do you know why Babylon was so vile? Do you know the history of the whole area that this country was in----Persia? She (if you want to connotate the country as a female_ had the greatest ports in that part of the world and the best products the world over. She was depised because those who wrote the bible were jhealous that she was wealthy and they were not.
  If you read the whole book of Revelations as a book, it may come to you tht this has already happened and the author was just writting down the War of the Angels. Study a bit more. I stopped being spoonfed by clergy and docturnes when I rew up and Jesus truly came into my heart and life. Think about it! What di Jesus tell us in the Bible---Ask, Seek for answers and most ar within you not outside of you. The church and temple is your body, not a building.
  reply report
4. 64
  johnb0127posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Believes everything is a god
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You haven't read any of the other posts.
  reply report
  57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He is just another religionist looking for a fight - they do that
  reply report
  64
  johnb0127posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Haha, aren't you so funny. I am not looking for a fight, I just want people to know the truth about Jesus Christ. If you and all your other "spaghetti monster" people don't accept Jesus Christ, you will burn in Hell when you die. Sorry! But its true
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  True to those who fel the need to be punished for just being a human being. Sado-masochists!
  
  Was Jesus discrimantory?
  
  Just another religious zealot--pride go before a fall...........
  reply report
  75
  sunforgedposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  When you type this type of stuff, dont you realize your God comes off as a dick?
  
  a little revelations:
  
  8And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
  
  9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
  
  10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
  
  11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
  
  So the way I see it, if you pick the wrong horse..when you got this crafty antichrist fellow running around, pick the wrong dude...not only will you be tortured for all eternity...Jesus (lamb) and his angels are going to hang around and watch you burn maybe sipping on a little Holy Water.
  
  What do you call someone who watches something terrible, has the power to change the outcome and yet doesnt do anything about it?
  
  Coward, accomplice ?
  
  Seriously this stuff is so tired...The God of scripture is an egomaniacal murdering bastard, have you ever read the bible? If God were human he would on trial at a world tribunal with Hitler and Hussein.
  
  I can see falling for it when it was the greatest story ever told, but man, cmon there are some really good fantasy writers out these days.
  
  And if you must pick a God to follow, why not pick one that actually likes human?
  reply report
  57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is the trouble with believing in a magical, invisible super being from a bronze age fairy tale. And they either do not understand or do not care how offensive it is to have this stuff shoved at you all the time.
  
  I am slowly coming around to the "do not care," rather than "do not know." And they do not see how ironic it is to be spreading hatred and fear in the name of the lord.
  
  Having said that - it is people like this that proved to me their entire belief system is rubbish. They are getting more aggressive lately I notice. Probably because education and a growing understanding of the way the world works is continuing to prove that their beliefs are baseless.
  
  Dropping church attendances and a growing rationalist movement must be threatening their domination so they are just fighting back.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I am seeing this too. When I pointed out the doctirne to a devout Catholic, the actual words, to the effect that they are to do these things to others, that devout catholic spurned a hate cmpaign on me. It wasn't my words or beliefs or doctrine, but his own. Yet he got very angry at me.
  reply report
5. 74
  Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  'Just another 'self seeking' blend of philosophies 'New Age'
  reply report
6. 60
  TheLoanConsultantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Here's my opinion; as far as I know the book store is the first place I saw the term and Christians used the term to describe subject matter that was mostly under that category. The New Age section is always right across or right next to the Christian section. So by default we started using that term to describe, anything that has to do with the occult, eastern philosophies, or any other attempt to pierce the realm of the spirit outside of Christianity.
  reply report
7. 0
  ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Read my blog on it...
  reply report
60
knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
Same as old age.
reply report
1. 66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am going to wait for others to post here, especially Christians. I am really curious as to what they consider New Age. I will respond to others comments then.
  reply report
  61
  MBP42posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As a Christian I would consider so called "new age" to be the old practices of withcraft, candling, non God centered chanting, Sylvia Brown and her so called speaking to the dead, psychics in general, any non church practice that claims to be able to meet your spiritual needs. That is the problem with "new age" practices they seek to divide and conquer. They will divide you from God and Jesus and conquer your entry to Heaven by miring you in the filth of these rotten practices. You want your spiritual needs met talk to a living God not to dead practices claiming to be new when in fact they are thousands of years old.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  God gave us all those abilities or haven't your read the Corinthians. Have you seen the movie about peter and Paul and how Paul kind of took over what was supposed to have been Peter's job as Jesus wanted it. I guess not, for all of you are not allowed to go look other than your books, and that is just your doctrine becasue it states in that book that if you seek you will get hism and his answers, not the clergy of your church.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Then you would be most interested in reading my hub: http://hubpages.com/hub/Kill-The-Witch
  reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
It would appear they don't have a definition of what New Age is.
reply report
60
knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
How about the Aquarian Age. My associations with 'New Age' are
people trying to make money by selling hocus pocus wampum.
reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
Weel I have been told that Christians aren't supposed to read or see anything that is New Age. So I was just wondering what that defnition holds.

In my observances they are talking about Astrology and anything they deem to be Witch craft--I am guessing.....

As for Astrology, The Bible is full of Astrology and Prophesying and foretelling of the furture---that is alot of the prophets do such as Joseph in the Old Testament--you know the one who foretold all the troubles that Egypt would have and all those plagues. He was not a professed prophet, just a boy that saw dreams and beleived in them. Oh and he got the short end of the stick too by those around him. He was put in a whole and made it look like he was killed---by his very own brothers mind you! -- so I was wondering what the difference was between that and foretelling the future like Astrology-none that I can see.

Now Asrology is all over that Bible too----For instance the Satr Of Behtlehem anbd the telling of the stars and numerology is in there with things adding up to twelve and three and such as that.

Witch craft and all that, well I wrote a hub about that: Kill The Witch. You got to red to the end on that one to get the point and some of the comments.

So with all this debunking, I was wondering if there is such a thing as New Age.
Then again each second is a New Age. So everyone lives in a New Age ..........so what is it that they are not allowed to see or know or read?
reply report
1. 66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Bumping this up for Mark and Mike! Can you both read it now without having to go back up the page one to find it....
  reply report
2. 61
  ElElyoneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Joseph did NOT use astrology to tell ANYTHING at all. God gave him the dreams and the interpretations to them and that is the boys testimony forwards and back. Every single time it happened.
  
  Please get your "facts" straight...please?
  
  The difference between one who uses astrology and a real prophet of God is that the prophet is NEVER wrong if in fact he is hearing from God and in the scriptures if you spoke and said God told you something was going to happen and it in fact did NOT...you got an offering of ROCKS, not money!!!
  
  Please get it straight dear.
  
  Astronomy is fine, astrology is NOT.
  
  The "New Age Movement" is anti-Messiah.
  
  They believe "many roads" can take you to the same place.
  That is no more true than if we all take a different road on earth it will lead all of us to the same place.
  reply report
60
knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
I am not a christian so can't speak for them. Guessin' but maybe the new age is the end times before the 2nd coming and all that or the 2nd coming itself.
".so what is it that they are not allowed to see or know or read?"
Harry Potter.
reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
I think and it is only my thoughts --that they are very scared of Satan....but when I looked up the name in the New Testament from a version prior ot the King James Version that name was not found. Evil wasn't found but I found one instance in the NT for that word. Mostly it was demon that was used and it wasn't used in the context that Christian's use it today. So that makes me wonder and question the Authorities of who put that word in the Bible and why and which version was the first one to have that word in it? OK that was a lot of questions.

Now some say nothing was added to the Bible, but this clearly was.

In my opinion anything that pertains to using your own mind is the makings of Satan and is considered New Age. Then you go read the Bible and Jesus says to use your own brain and I don't think God would have given us one if he didn't mean for us to use it or to be controlled by another entitity--weather their mythological person Satan or another human Being or even another Animal.

Ever since Constantine gained control and saw a means of power the Chruch has tried to keep people *in the dark* and thought up this Satan as a means to their end and a means to get their money, soul or what have you.
reply report
1. 0
  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I would say some of your assessment is true but certainly you are reaching. Not all churches want peoples money and not all people affiliated with religions and churches aim for that.
  
  like how Christians or many religions think that a person who is Gnostic is a devil worshiper or think that Gnostics are anti-God all together which isn't true.
  
  Just like, it seems to be common knowledge that the Jews were the ones who killed Jesus when really, wasn't it the Romans? Anyways, they probably wont chime in with a definition of new age because there isn't really a definition other than "change", like the bronze age, the golden age, the industrial age, the technology age, the information age, the new age.
  
  Which to me only means a new form of conscience behavior more suitable to the way we live today. or in other words, the age of reason.
  
  oh, and it's called new age until after the age and then it is given a defining name, lol
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't just say money. Here is what I said:
  "......a means to get their money, soul or what have you"
  reply report
59
LegendaryN8posted 15 years ago
You gotta define it for us.
reply report
1. 66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why? It is Christians who made it.
  reply report
63
needful thingsposted 15 years ago
No definition needed... as a "christian", I believe it is just a "marketing" strategy....
reply report
1. 66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  marketing for what?
  reply report
63
needful thingsposted 15 years ago
To make something look good... e.g. new generation, new age...

Or you can look at it this way... it is some way to get the "faith" to more people, to get more people to christianity. The old styles no longer work for the "new generation"

There is no "new age" in christianity... christianity is christianity.
reply report
1. 0
  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  See there was a reason I called the new age the age of reason because that is an excellent point. touche'.
  reply report
2. 57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Christians are frightened of "new age" because it takes the values of "old age" i.e. before christianity. Many of the "new age" values are derived directly from an appreciation of and respect for the natural order - which does not include bowing down to a jealous and angry god who sent jesus to save us from our sins.
  reply report
  60
  AlexiusComnenusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As an Eastern Orthodox Christian I don't fear the "New Age". "'new age' values are derived directly from an appreciation of and respect for the natural order"- Does this imply that Christians don't have a respect for the natural order? I would say Christians have a greater respect because we believe the inherent value in that natural order does not come randomly or by chance but by intrinsic design from a loving, creative God. Would that not give greater value thus necessitating greater respect?
  Furthermore, I do not bow before a jealous and angry God, at least not jealous in the way you think. The human concept of jealousy is married to the idea of fear. Why else would one be jealous unless he feared losing that which he/she is jealous of? M God is not afraid of losing anything. God is jealous because he is fully conscious of his own omnipotence. If there is anything at all it is all-encompassing love. He loves us too much to want us to live apart from Him. Therefore He is jealous that we are attached to Him.
  And Angry? Wouldn't you be angry if you had a perfect plan for bringing the world to eternal life , constantly revealed yourself to your people, promised perfect love and still people spurned you to your face? But again, it's not an anger in the human sense. It's an anger at the root cause of that separation. It's an anger at the being at the source of the wrongs.
  I once heard a quote though I don't remember just where it came from, "No man fears to kneel before a God he trusts." I don't fear my God. I'm grateful. Life has a purpose again.
  reply report
  57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good for you. Perhaps if you take the time to go back through the thread and see what the person I was speaking to was saying about new age supporting extreme satanic practices and muslim terrorism, you would see the fear I am talking about.
  
  Yes.
  
  No - this is rubbish. If this was true, we would not be facing the environmental issues we face and there would not have been any species made extinct by us. Who said anything about random or chance?
  
  Rubbish. And how do you know how I think? You a mind reader too?
  
  What? Doesn't sound very omnipotent to me. Constantly revealed himself?
  
  Oh, you mean because there are trees, this is the proof he shows us and we choose to ignore it? That sort of constantly revealing himself?
  reply report
67
Make Moneyposted 15 years ago
Sure it includes bowing down to a jealous and angry god Mark. In fact to many of them.

I had to go to wikipedia to find out what it even means.

Imagine the confusion in someone's mind that tries to follow this. There would be so many contradictions it would be ridiculous. I wouldn't doubt that this will be the "religion" that the New World Order will adopt.
reply report
1. 83
  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The term 'New Age' is driven by the need of society to pigeonhole and compartmentalize ideas. There is no unified movement driving a New Age idea - it is almost like the category "Miscellaneous."
  reply report
  67
  SparklingJewelposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Our higher consciousness (our Real Self, our Higher Self, our Christ Mind, our Atman, etc)is the mediator between the One God and the human mind and soul. God/god
  Soul/soul, Mind/mind, Self/self,....do you get what I mean? Each individual person has a Soul and a soul, a Mind and a mind, a Self and a self...there is a God that we are all a part of , a god in that we are a drop in the ocean of God. You can't have the ocean without all the drops; each drop by its self would evaporate without being part of the ocean.
  All religions are trying to say the same thing, but the human mind continues to divide.
  
  the New Age stuff is just about awakening the soul to recognize these things...that we have other levels of consciousness that we need to allow our highest level of consciousness to have control over once again. we have allowed ourselves to be separated from the wholeness of God...we are to look for that unity once again, attain it by overcoming all that is less than the belief that we are One with God.
  reply report
  83
  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I do study sufism, although I have very little time for reading, nowadays. So far, most of my study has been historical rather than spiritual, although I hope to rectify that. I have a fascination with holy folk, of all religions, who seek answers through introspection
  
  For me, if we apply a definition for the sake of argument, New Age means an individual spiritual journey. Whilst Christian, I have looked at many other religions and beliefs, and found merit in many areas. I see no difficulty in mixing Christianity, science, sufism and many other philosophical and spiritual beliefs together. It is my journey, and nobody else's. The one thing that I do avoid is dogma - I make my own interpretations about life, the universe and everything.
  reply report
  82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  1 Corinthians 9:19-23
  19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; 20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; 22 to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 Now this I do for the gospel's sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.
  
  Not a lot of dogma in this passage.
  
  And of course
  
  Romans 12:17-18
  17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.
  
  Sounds like this is what you're doing Sufi...
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Bdazzler,
  Now this is what I am talking about as to there being no one set religion or elitist people and that Christ does come to all no matter who they are--in his own way. Now if the Christian's would get that and it is right out of their own Bible then we have gone far.
  Thank You for those verses!!
  reply report
  82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're welcome.
  reply report
  83
  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good work, BDazzler - I like that one.
  
  My dislike of dogma is more about my aversion to going to church - I never felt the pressing need to attend.
  
  This especially applies here - they speak an old form of Greek, of which I understand little.
  
  I am happy with where I am spiritually, and I am enjoying the journey.
  
  New Age, as I see it, attempts to define the undefinable. The Wikipedia article assumes that anybody interested in the concept follows every one of these beliefs. I have many friends who are pagan, for example, and are classed as New Age, but they would be happy to admit that they know little about physics, astronomy or science. The phrase is a blanket term for those who are not afraid to explore their own spirituality, pushing the boundaries of mysticism. It is not, as far as I am aware, an organised religion.
  
  Once again, Wikipedia proves itself to be the fount of all knowledge.
  reply report
  82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I understand that I can worship God without the help of a "professional holy man" ... and I understand that I can learn without a teacher (Palm 119:99) ... I've found a church attended by people who care about the same things I care about. Who love God the same way I love God.. Honestly, I'd prefer different music. But, I love the people I go to church with.
  
  The pastor definitely does NOT speak in Old Greek
  reply report
  83
  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Great that you have found a church that you are happy with - It should be a social occasion as much as an act of worship.
  
  As for the music, you need this guy:
  
  http://www.heavy.com/video/61365
  
  reply report
  67
  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  I have to admit that people find their spirituality or way to worship in many different ways whether it be traditional or new.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ecclesiastes 1:9 (Young's Literal Translation)
  
  9What [is] that which hath been? it [is] that which is, and what [is] that which hath been done? it [is] that which is done, and there is not an entirely new thing under the sun.
  reply report
  83
  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I first saw that guy in a BBC news report - talk about reaching out to a new audience. That says more than a thousand sermons!
  
  babarushe - I saw that you work with youth, which gives you a great perspective.
  reply report
  82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not exactly my taste in music ... but a lot of my friends from church would enjoy it.
  reply report
2. 0
  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Let's just call it the "age of acceptance", that should sufice and certainly would mesh well ( by word of Christ) with Christianity, though -no offence Mike this isn't directed towards you- but for whatever reason Christians wont accept it.
  
  and to be altogether equal about it, maybe neither would atheist.
  reply report
3. 57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mike - that is about as accurate a description of "New Age" philosophies as your descriptions of atheism and communism.
  
  I know, I know, it is the christian way to mis-represent things in this fashion, but still......
  
  And judging from the arguments I have seen between you christians - none of you can understand your religion either.
  reply report
  82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, yeah, I know it's kind of embarassing to see all that fussing and fighting in public, but, hey, we're family ...and nobody fusses and fights like family!
  reply report
  67
  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mark I have already stated that I don't know much about the New Age Movement and don't care to. The above quote is not mine, it's from this wikipedia
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Age
  
  Maybe they are wrong. You decide. I couldn't care less other than the fact that LG mentioned that there is a connection between the New Age Movement and the New World Order. Which I had previously assumed.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say they were connected. I didn't even know that they were connected. New Age is what I posted in like message 4 or something like that. Better go read that!
  reply report
  57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No Mike - there is no connection between the two.
  
  I understand that you are not interested in learning anything new. You have made that plain.
  
  You already know all you need to ............
  reply report
60
knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
"Imagine the confusion in someone's mind that tries to follow this."
If religion/spirituality is a personal matter, confusion is the problem of the confused. If it is state religion one wants, then yes a mulitplicity would be a problem.
reply report
67
Make Moneyposted 15 years ago
No Christians, Muslims or religious Jews wouldn't accept it Sandra because it goes against the first commandment.

Atheists wouldn't accept it either cause they would have to bow down to many jealous and angry gods.

Knolyourself is right when he says it would be a problem if it was forced as a state religion or by the New World Order or something.

Miscellaneous for sure Sufi. Who's going to be the high prince or princess of the New Age Miscellaneous religion?
reply report
1. 66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What do you mean it goes against the first commandment? New Age doesn't have a God of it's own.
  
  Mike, What is YOUR definition of New Age then, not the dictionary--ha! I could have brought that here.
  reply report
  67
  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's why it goes against the first commandment.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I meant a God, period and if that is the case that wouldn't be against the first commandment either, for how would it have no other Gods before it?
  reply report
  67
  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Matthew 4:10 quotes the first commandment in Jesus' words.
  
  If New Age doesn't have a God then how can they adore and only serve God.
  
  If New Age has all the gods from Buddhism, Chinese folk religion, Hinduism, Sufism, East Asian religions, Gnosticism and Neopaganism that the wikipedia article pointed out then they are serving other gods.
  
  Either way Christians, Muslims or religious Jews wouldn't accept the New Age religion because it goes against the first commandment.
  reply report
  83
  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sufis are Muslims.
  reply report
  67
  SparklingJewelposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  sufidreamer...do you study Sufism (the mystical aspects of Islam?)
  reply report
2. 0
  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not really what I was thinking, I was thinking along the lines of accepting peoples views and spirituality as their own. I don't feel that it can or even could be up to me or anyone else to come between a man and his God, those are personal things.
  
  So by acceptance, I was thinking of scripture, "now brothers accept them as the Lord our God has accepted you." something like that.
  
  In through the eyes of Christianity, the way I see it, that because one of the foundations of Chritianity is that we are all sinners and incapable of keeping all the commandments, and therefore shows that it is right that eveyone be accepting for each other short comings, including the inablilty to agree on a God.
  reply report
60
knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
"Who's going to be the high prince or princess of the New Age Miscellaneous religion?" Think the idea is 'we all'.
reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
Ok, here is alot about New Age Spirituality and other related info on this site: http://www.religioustolerance.org/newage.htm

Some of what it on there:
New Age beliefs:
A number of fundamental beliefs are held by many New Age followers; individuals are encouraged to "shop" for the beliefs and practices that they feel most comfortable with:

Monism: All that exists is derived from a single source of divine energy.
Pantheism: All that exists is God; God is all that exists. This leads naturally to the concept of the divinity of the individual, that we are all Gods. They do not seek God as revealed in a sacred text or as exists in a remote heaven; they seek God within the self and throughout the entire universe.
Panentheism: God is all that exists. God is at once the entire universe, and transcends the universe as well.
Reincarnation: After death, we are reborn and live another life as a human. This cycle repeats itself many times. This belief is similar to the concept of transmigration of the soul in Hinduism.
Karma: The good and bad deeds that we do adds and subtracts from our accumulated record, our karma. At the end of our life, we are rewarded or punished according to our karma by being reincarnated into either a painful or good new life. This belief is linked to that of reincarnation and is also derived from Hinduism
An Aura is believed to be an energy field radiated by the body. Invisible to most people, it can be detected by some as a shimmering, multi-colored field surrounding the body. Those skilled in detecting and interpreting auras can diagnose an individual's state of mind, and their spiritual and physical health.
Personal Transformation A profoundly intense mystical experience will lead to the acceptance and use of New Age beliefs and practices. Guided imagery, hypnosis, meditation, and (sometimes) the use of hallucinogenic drugs are useful to bring about and enhance this transformation. Believers hope to develop new potentials within themselves: the ability to heal oneself and others, psychic powers, a new understanding of the workings of the universe, etc. Later, when sufficient numbers of people have achieved these powers, a major spiritual, physical, psychological and cultural planet-wide transformation is expected.
Ecological Responsibility: A belief in the importance of uniting to preserve the health of the earth, which is often looked upon as Gaia, (Mother Earth) a living entity.
Universal Religion: Since all is God, then only one reality exists, and all religions are simply different paths to that ultimate reality. The universal religion can be visualized as a mountain, with many sadhanas (spiritual paths) to the summit. Some are hard; others easy. There is no one correct path. All paths eventually reach the top. They anticipate that a new universal religion which contains elements of all current faiths will evolve and become generally accepted worldwide.
New World Order As the Age of Aquarius unfolds, a New Age will develop. This will be a utopia in which there is world government, and end to wars, disease, hunger, pollution, and poverty. Gender, racial, religious and other forms of discrimination will cease. People's allegiance to their tribe or nation will be replaced by a concern for the entire world and its people.
reply report
67
Make Moneyposted 15 years ago
I have know idea what the definition of New Age means other than what I could look up. I've had no reason to think about it. I see you looked it up too. I knew you'd be posting a link soon. Looks like you got something similar to the wikipedia info that I posted. Must be a lot of confusion with them. I was just guessing that it had something to do with the New World Order but I guess I was right. Sounds similar to what the freemasons believe. Anything but God. So is this what they are going to try to force upon us. Pass.
reply report
1. 66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well Mike, I don't know much about the Freemasons either. Only that my ex sister in law was involved with the ladies part. That was many, many years ago.
  reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
The Ten Commandments. This site has the versions of each society listed there and also about what the First Set of Commandments were and the Second Set. A very interesting read for all--Christian's and None.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/whichcom.htm
reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
The Ten Commandments of Young's Literal Translation:
Exodus 20
1`And God speaketh all these words, saying,

2I [am] Jehovah thy God, who hath brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of a house of servants.

3`Thou hast no other Gods before Me.

4`Thou dost not make to thyself a graven image, or any likeness which [is] in the heavens above, or which [is] in the earth beneath, or which [is] in the waters under the earth.

5Thou dost not bow thyself to them, nor serve them: for I, Jehovah thy God, [am] a zealous God, charging iniquity of fathers on sons, on the third [generation], and on the fourth, of those hating Me,

6and doing kindness to thousands, of those loving Me and keeping My commands.

7`Thou dost not take up the name of Jehovah thy God for a vain thing, for Jehovah acquitteth not him who taketh up His name for a vain thing.

8`Remember the Sabbath-day to sanctify it;

9six days thou dost labour, and hast done all thy work,

10and the seventh day [is] a Sabbath to Jehovah thy God; thou dost not do any work, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, thy man-servant, and thy handmaid, and thy cattle, and thy sojourner who is within thy gates, --

11for six days hath Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that [is] in them, and resteth in the seventh day; therefore hath Jehovah blessed the Sabbath-day, and doth sanctify it.

12`Honour thy father and thy mother, so that thy days are prolonged on the ground which Jehovah thy God is giving to thee.

13`Thou dost not murder.

14`Thou dost not commit adultery.

15`Thou dost not steal.

16`Thou dost not answer against thy neighbour a false testimony.

17`Thou dost not desire the house of thy neighbour, thou dost not desire the wife of thy neighbour, or his man-servant, or his handmaid, or his ox, or his ass, or anything which [is] thy neighbour's.'

18And all the people are seeing the voices, and the flames, and the sound of the trumpet, and the mount smoking; and the people see, and move, and stand afar off,

19and say unto Moses, `Speak thou with us, and we hear, and let not God speak with us, lest we die.'

20And Moses saith unto the people, `Fear not, for to try you hath God come, and in order that His fear may be before your faces -- that ye sin not.'

21And the people stand afar off, and Moses hath drawn nigh unto the thick darkness where God [is].

22And Jehovah saith unto Moses, `Thus dost thou say unto the sons of Israel: Ye -- ye have seen that from the heavens I have spoken with you;

23ye do not make with Me gods of silver, even gods of gold ye do not make to yourselves.

24`An altar of earth thou dost make for Me, and thou hast sacrificed on it thy burnt-offerings and thy peace-offerings, thy flock and thy herd; in every place where I cause My name to be remembered I come in unto thee, and have blessed thee.

25`And if an altar of stones thou dost make to Me, thou dost not build them of hewn work; when thy tool thou hast waved over it, then thou dost pollute it;

26neither dost thou go up by steps on Mine altar, that thy nakedness be not revealed upon it.
reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
When God said no other Gods before him, he never said anything about other gods after him or lesser Gods. All are from the ONE God, so in essence you would still be putting The ONE True God before the Lesser Gods--in and belief system or religion.
reply report
1. 67
  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well now LG that is stretching it big time.
  
  Lesser gods? Where did you find that? It seems anything goes with this New Age Movement.
  reply report
  82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Interestingly, while CS Lewis is widely accepted by mainstream christianity, he did write of "lesser gods" ... granted, it was in a fictional sense, but their purpose (of both "good" and "evil") were to point people to Jesus.
  reply report
  67
  SparklingJewelposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, not being a complete, drink the whole glass of kool-aid, new age believer...there are just as many interpretations of new age as there are of other religions of the world.
  
  I believe it all boils down to the levels of consciousness, i so fondly talk about incessantly that few ask or know about.
  
  there are levels of the heaven world and levels of the astral planes...there are souls that have passed from a physical life in each realm, whose souls are either less(in the astral planes-unascended souls) or more (in the heaven planes-ascended souls)evolved.
  
  Plus in the heaven world planes there are beings such as angels and archangels, the Elohim, cosmic beings, and in the astral planes there are demons, discarnates, entities, aliens, and all the other things that a lower consciousness can "create"...that only have power because of the thoughts lower consciousness puts into these "mis-creations" of the mind and wounded soul.
  
  Most people in the new age and the worlds religions have little or no (and sometimes too much) perception of these energies of the other planes and lack the ability, or sense the need, to discern between them.
  
  They are putting many gods before the One God and don't realize that most of these energies are karmic misuses of God's energy. So even though they are of the One God's energy, by free will, souls have misused their power to create these lower energies, so are putting gods before God.
  reply report
  82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I love reading your posts SJ - you refuse to be boxed in by specific definitions.
  reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
Can and does GOD have different names or wear those many hats?
reply report
67
Make Moneyposted 15 years ago
Correction - The quote from the link that you posted mentioned that the New Age Movement is connected to the New World Order.

reply report
1. 66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. I didn't mean to copy and paste that bit just the stuff above it.
  reply report
73
AEvansposted 15 years ago
Oh My!! Here we go again I believe that all our entitled to what they believe and nobody should be hassled or badgered for their thoughts. But of Course it is not a prefect world. I wish we could just get along. I respect and value all beliefs.
reply report
67
Make Moneyposted 15 years ago
Just scroll back up 3 posts Mark. If the New Age Movement ends up being the forced one world religion of the New World Order do you not think that I have the right to show my concern?
reply report
1. 66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No one is saying anything like that. How is the New Age that I asked inb the beginning coming out to be made the one true religion of the New World Order??
  
  You need to go back up the forum post to the very first 6 messages and get the jist of what I am asking here. Both of you!
  reply report
2. 57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "New age" is a misnomer.
  
  Many "new age" philosophies are directly related to "old age" ones.
  
  Respect for mother earth.
  Astrology.
  Astronomy.
  Crystal healing.
  
  etc, etc.
  
  I see no reason for you to be "concerned" about something you have not taken the time to investigate.
  
  Although christianity has been the "forced" religion for the last 1,500 years. Think about that.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank You Mike. See I tried to point this out to some others,who haven't come here to reply, and the just told me they aren't allowed to read anything like that. Funny becasue I pointed out the Karma being in the Bible and they agreed after I told them what it was. Then I also wrote a hub , Kill The Wtich, about how they are supposed to suffer the witch and you will need to read the whle thing to get what that is all about, because Christians do and are invlolved in Witch Craft everyday. Astrology is all throughout the Bible but they don't want to admit it and they will turn it around to mean somethng else. It's all right there and they ARE reading New Age things everyday they open that Bible and read it. So when they are saying awful things about someone elses way fo life and their faith they ARE doing the same to themselves.................which that is in the Bible too..................Love They Neighbor As Thyself....hmmmm
  reply report
60
knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
"forced one world religion of the New World Order"
There is no or will there be any New World Order. They just tried
that (bush years) and they failed.
reply report
62
babarusheposted 15 years ago
It's cool that you finally found people with same spiritual inclination with you.

Most times, we may make few sacrifices in some areas to get other aspects moving.

Not too much a sacrifice to adapt to the type of music they play

cheers
reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
SJ and I are on the same page most of the time. If you read other stuff the Devil is NOT going to send you to Hell!! IMHO the church is the devise of Satan. Who would want God's kingdom to be supressed and hidden---only one I can think of is Satan..............
reply report
67
SparklingJewelposted 15 years ago
Hey Guys, the spectrum of new age beliefs is even broader than the individual beliefs of any specific religion. For every one that says the "big three" are wrong there are at least 10 who believe that it is not the religion itself that is the problem, but the interpretation and actions taken of the people involved, according to how they think they see/view/envision the religions' concepts and beliefs.

I will repeat it again...God is not the problem...the concepts of God of the human consciousness of the individuals, is the problem...and of course what groups of these individuals that get together to "create" the Only True Way end up saying to get your money and your energy to perpetuate their twisted concepts.
reply report
1. 68
  Nickny79posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well said.
  reply report
2. 0
  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Have I ever asked you for a penny?
  
  Aleister Crowley said that he knew God was real and anyone would be fool to not think so. He then said he chose to follow after satan not to become a disciple, but to become his chief.
  
  Not everyone is after money from you or ayone else.
  reply report
57
Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago
Allright. Although I am tempted to take back my original statement that you are not being deliberately obtuse. We were discussing tolerance of other beliefs:

But you turned it into tolerance of sin when I asked:

And I asked you why you did that:

And you reply with the above rant which I do not understand. Perhaps if you answer the question, we could start to get somewhere, because you have a very odd idea of new age that I do not understand.

Why did you turn the discussion from tolerance of other beliefs into tolerance of sin?

Which I do not recognize. I am sinless. Seeing as I do not recognize a magical. invisible super being (god, I believe you call him).

Once we have dealt with this, perhaps you might be interested in what new age is actually about?

And I am still keen to know what new age beliefs you have "studied." Or did you get it all from an evangelist on Oprah?
reply report
1. 0
  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I apologize for not being more clear. When you tolerate everything or accept every belief as being right, sin is included. It also includes Militant muslims, Militant Hindus, etc. . .
  
  I have dialoged with many new agers in forums and such. I know how they think and see things.
  
  In short sin is the flesh of a man or woman. It is not the spirit of man.
  reply report
  57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But I think you are being mis-lead in your assessment of "new age." I don't know what new-agers you are discussing with but I very much doubt they include extreme satanic practices, or militant muslim behaviors in their approach.
  
  Really - do some more research and you will find that "new age" is a very peaceful approach that is tolerant of other's beliefs, but against aggressive, organized political religious dogma, whichever version, including satanism - i.e. - your type of beliefs.
  
  No sin here.
  reply report
  0
  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The only sinless one is God. When you say there is no sin in you, you put yourself in the place of God. This is what Satan wanted for himself. It also whos that those who think they are or will become God are of the same mindset.
  
  Here is a hub that I wrote recently that might explain things a little better than I have here.
  http://hubpages.com/hub/Do-What-Thou-Wilt
  reply report
  57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No. You are wrong. In your world perhaps this is the case. But - I do not recognize a god. Therefore there is no sin. Simple.
  
  You keep on telling me that there is a god is not going to change that.
  
  I would appreciate an answer to the question I posed though. I understand it is the christian way to use semantics to avoid the tough question, but I find that hinders the discussion.
  
  Why did you change tolerance of other's beliefs to tolerance of sin?
  reply report
  0
  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I answered your question here. This is going around in circles now and I will bow out. I see no pint in continuing the discussion.
  
  LG, we have gone over your statement many times. All I can say is Believe what thou wilt and see in the end.
  
  I really have nothing more to say here.
  reply report
  57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ciao
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Once again yu bow out when asked a fw questions and just when you start to see that things aren't going you way you quit instead of staying and learning something. Then as usualy to some of you name calling comes into play---but alas you have learned something from that and that is Karma isn't it. Cause and Effect and it had nothing to =do with Sin or Satan--only in your doctrinated mind.
  So go and leave.......... you will reap what you sow. KARMA---Cause and Effect!!
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well if we are God as Jesus states then why would we be putting anything upon ourselves but God? I know you have said many a time that Jesus was talking aobut something else. That brings to mind that if he was always talking to someone else then wehre is it for us to hear? Who gives who the authority to tell another human being who is God and who is not. Jesus just said the he was here by his father and I don't think he said anywhere in the Bible that his father was also our father....
  Who are you trying to convert an why and why would it matter to your kind if we were or not?
  reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
New Age does not give a free ride for anything or anyone and certaily does not go against God. I believe it is Karma (Cause and Effect) that is the checks a balances that cover the topic of SIN.. It is also in the Bible and if you don't know that then you haven't read that Bible at all, and you are mislead about the subject of Karma.
reply report
1. 83
  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  To be honest, I agree with what LG and Mark have implied - I hate the term 'New Age.' It covers such a wide range of different beliefs and philosophies that it is too diluted to have any meaning. My friends in the UK are Druids, with a lot of 'left-field' beliefs. They are not Satanists, and are kind and decent people.
  
  In this area, the vast majority of people are Greek Orthodox. They also believe in faith healing, herbalism, crystal healing, 'The Evil Eye' and have a reverence for the spirits in Olive Trees. Does this make them evil sinners? No.
  
  This is not, as Mark correctly pointed out, New Age, but customs accumulated over thousands of years. They have a reverence for the land and for their own history - "The people shape the land and the land shapes the people."
  reply report
57
Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago
Lady G -

As Sir Dent has bowed out of the conversation, perhaps you could tell me if I got this right. This is what he was saying:

1. Jesus is not tolerant of sins.
2. Any belief that is not strictly by the King James bible (whether you act on it or not) is a sin.
3. Therefore Jesus was not tolerant of other beliefs.
4. Therefore true christians are not tolerant of other beliefs.

Leaving aside all the garbage about new age being extreme satanism and muslim extremists -

Is that about right?
reply report
1. 66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  1. Yes, that is what he has been told to beleive.
  
  2. Kinda, It is the doctrine of the church they attend as to who is a sinner and who is not and they (the parishioners of that dotrine) are qualified to tell you if you are a sinner or not and if their definition of New Age is the right one or not.
  
  3. They will pull out certain verses to state that belief only s I have tired to show him if you read the whole paragraph is often means something else---then when you point that out then the words become some sort of history lesson to the people that Jesus was speaking too.
  
  4. They try to ram that down others trhoats but what the Bible says is something different and therefore we go back to number 3--circular logic.
  As you seen by his actions and words they are not his own but that of someone telling him what they should be. He refuses to think of wht the Bible says on his own and must have someone else interpret it for him and if I or you bring about another meanings then it is totally wrong and a SIN and he will bow out and be a coward about the whle thing. This happens many times and they can't change becasue they are put into the FEAR that if anything does not jive with their church doctrine then they will go to hell and burn for eternity. The Bible is mistranslated and has many mistakes written in it and when Sir Dent says that he has studied many other New Age stuff--he is lying. Why lie, that is a sin in itself. I pointed out the Karma and he ran away not knowing that it states that cause and effect many times in the Bible, but he refuses to see it and runs away or he will resort to threatening. We have gone around many times, but he has never given me his own interpretation of what I am asking. I am not looking for his church's doctrine, but his own and he cant do that. As long as they have the blindfold over his eyes he will never see the beautiy they keep from him and others like him. IMHO that is a SIN and so is keeping knowledge abut the planet and everything that is in and on and above it too.
  reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
The topic of Gods in New Age. I just came across some Biblical Scripture that deals with other Gods. Here is the verse for you to see for yourselves:
Acts 2:
34for David did not go up to the heavens, and he saith himself: The Lord saith to my lord, Sit thou at my right hand,

It also says something about "THIS" generation, being the generation they are in and not the one that we are in. It also talks about other things that we see and hear and do today and that they will be miracles or some sort. The whole chapter is about "new age" things.
I looked it up pn Bible Gateway and you can read the whole passage of Acts 2 there. Very interesting things to get many, many different facets like a diamond from.
reply report
1. 57
  Jouneyman2posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ...But many Christians fail to do that and only point out a single verse. Would you like for me to post the enitre chapter here so that everyone hs the same thing in front of them? That way we can all be on the same pages, as it were!
  
  I also find it interesting that you didn't even acknowledge the verse that I did post here: Acts 2:34. Care to give us your thoughts on that?
  reply report
  57
  Jouneyman2posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I did not reply to your question regarding Acts 2:34 as I was not sure, nor am I now, of the question you have regarding it. Are you asking whether or not I think David is in heaven? No. Do I think he sits at the right hand of the Lord? Yes. Does that mean he is in heaven? No.
  ..... Or are you seeking my understanding of the entire chapter of Acts 2?
  reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
Doesn't any christian who actually reads their bible understand the scriptures where it tell you that all of Jesus's miracle cannot be included in the bible becasue there were so many? Don't they read also that it says in that Bible that we will do more miiracles than Jesus and to a higher degree then he ever did?
All scripture is short on alot of things and we will never know what is and what isn't because they are not in scripture. The Bible is a guide and a history book----simple as that!
reply report
1. 82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LG nothing having to do with God and the core power of the universe is "simple"
  Seriously, I knew what you meant, the term "simple" just struck me funny.
  
  Now ... I will answer your original question:
  
  The term "New Age" depends on the context in which it is used.
  
  Primarily I've see it most often used as a "marketing term" targeting a fairly large audience that is dis-illusioned with Christianity as practiced by western culture in the latter half of the 20th century. It seems to be used to label stores and web sites (google lists about 73 Million "New Age Stores") that sell crystals, books music etc.
  
  I've read enough prefaces and introductions in those books to see a common theme in about 60%-80% of them. They usually begin by saying something to the effect, "All religions and belif systems are valid, except Christianty. Chistianity is bad because it claims to be exclusive."
  
  Not all of them say that. Some of them say it in a "more nice" way and some of them are very verbally violent in thier attacks on traditional Christian beliefs.
  
  Common themes in these book stores have included lunar goddesses, the healing power of crystals and divination.
  
  This material most frequently does not speak to my spirit, so I have no personal use for it.
  
  On the other hand, there is a pastor named Bill Johnson of Bethel Church in Redding California, who has been accused by many traditional Christians of being "New Age" that very frequently DOES speak to my spirit so I seek him and his writing out quite frequently.
  
  Bill Johonson does say many of the things you say, Lady G. (Greater things etc.) And his has been the only healing ministry that I'm aware of that has produced over a dozen true miracles that I have seen myself with my own eyes happen to people that I know of and trust. As I said, He also, has been accused of being "New Age'. I'm on his maling list and I have NEVER been asked for money.
  
  When he sells a CD or MP3, he grants permission to copy and share for personal use.
  
  He is very "non-greedy" and non-money grabbing. Most of his belief in scripture and teaching is very traditional, Yet because he demonstrates the supernatural power of God , he is called "New Age" ... go figure.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your reply about this. I get the feeling that since I do not go with the flow and do as the doctrines of church (and this is used as a general term i.e. organized religioun I guess) that I am not one of them. LOL I don't want to really be one of them perse. I have been one of them all my life. Because some of us are diffewrent and not understood we are outcasts and called many nasty and erogatory names. At least he is only called "New Age", I have been caled much worse then that and been told that II go beyond what Jesus taught and that is wrong. Only thing is if he said that we would do many more miracles and greater than he, how can it bee wrong to go beyond what he taught when that is exactly what he taught? It isn't Satan at all but their own ignorance and that of a person whom reveres themselves greater than what they are not and only want power and control of others. Those kinds of people are Master Manipulators and have an issue with their own personal power.
  As far as Christianity and New Age descriptions you have read, I for one see the good in all things. There are stepping stones to greater things from those who deem religions wrong and so it works the other way. too.
  reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
Reiki, is that also new age to Christians? It is in the Bible and Jesus gave the Apostles permission to use it. It is called Laying on of hands.
reply report
1. 57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Beg to differ. There is no actual contact in Reiki.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Then I misunderstand about laying on of hands. Now I can do distant healing and can see where a person is not riht but I don't use hands to do these things. I was to understand that it is Reiki.
  So derailing my own forum thread, and the persuit of understanding---Just what is the definition of Reiki. Mark? What do I have then?
  reply report
  57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Reiki is an "energetic" form of therapy, with no "laying on of hands" unless laying on of hands involves no laying on of hands.
  
  Not a big fan of Reiki, having known many practitioners. The process of being "activated" is a one time payment to another master.
  
  Sorry Charlotte if you are reading.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can feel the energy field when I out my hands about 4 inches from a person's body. I can tell where they are not right by a coldness in the area and what I do is transfer warmth in that area. It only works if the person allows it or if it is in their life lesson to experience such. If they are to experience the pain or problem in their life then healing will not work. I don't charge for anything because I don't feel it is supposed to be that way. I have a gift and sharing it brings more of the same. It is also the same with manipulating what I see as a black blob in the area that is sick. I can sometimes manipulate it out of existence, but most times it is just smaller than it was. I don't do this very often and certainly not in public. I can send the different healing lights to a person and around the person and it does have an effect and most times will last a while beyond what I ever thought it does. I just learned this within the last few months. I was never taught this but acquired it after my very spiritual experience some years ago. It just is there for me to use and I never use it for bad.
  
  Now some of the people who are reading this will say it is from Satan to do this---that is hogwash because like I keep saying--all of the miracles that Jesus did were not in the Bible AND that we will do more and greater miracles than him.
  reply report
  82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  See Matthew 12:25+
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't understand what you are say using those verses. Please explain.....
  reply report
  82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus' opponents accused him of using satanic powers for doing good. He explained, rather intensely, that satan does act against evil.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for taking the time to explain. The more I read it the more that I got paranoid---who wouldn't with all the reactions of certain people that i have had on here and other places.
  reply report
  82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Lady, I may disagree with 90% of your doctrine. And that disagreement may well come from an incomplete understanding on my part.
  
  But, here's what I do understand. you said you came in the name of Jesus. You have never denied His Kingship. No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit, and nobody speaking by the Holy Spirit may say "Jesus is cursed".
  
  This is the King I serve. So, If you are wrong, it's between you, and our King. If something does need to be corrected, I try to do so gently and without accusation.
  
  I don't have to agree with you. I don't have to support all your ideas. But opposing that which is obviously good (such as your healing gift) because you have ideas I might not agree with is wrong, because I know that all good things come from God.
  
  Jesus did not disagree with the ideas the Pharisees had. He did not oppose their theology. He opposed them for not living the theology they believed. When someone did have a wrong theology, like the woman at the well, he gently explained the truth in a way she could understand, 'The Father seeks those who will worship in Spirit and in Truth.'
  
  Those who claim to have correct doctrine are held to a higher standard by God, especially if they seek to instruct others in that doctrine.
  
  So, I try to be ready to explain and encourage, such is the nature of the King I serve.
  
  In that light:
  
  I know several healers. I've laid hands on someone's ears and hearing has been restored.
  
  * I know a man who was healed from Parkinson's disease.
  * I know four people raised from the dead. Three of them are very good friends. (It's kind of a weird thing to run into a guy at the flea market, and shake hands with him, knowing that he woke up in a morgue after having been pronounced dead.)
  * I was there when one of them was called forth like Lazarus.
  * I know a woman healed of Hepatitis C.
  * I know another woman who was so infected they were going to put a tube in her heart to pump in antibiotics - who was healed on the way into the operating room.
  * I know a man who had a hole in his heart, but it was healed before the surgery.
  
  I'm not saying this because I'm proud. I'm not saying this to impress anybody. I don't want anybody to send me money. I'm not asking anybody to join my church.
  
  Here's my point. Not one of them, healed or healer are prefect. Not one of them has 100% correct doctrine. They don't have to be perfect. Not one of them "deserved" healing (in fact some of them will freely admit they were quite "undeserving") Not one of the healers had "perfect faith"
  
  I serve a perfect King, who loves us through our imperfection. They don't have to have perfect doctrine, because Jesus Himself is perfect theology.
  
  Take, for example, the prophet Daniel. He was considered the chief "wise-man" of Persia. As far as the rest of the world was concerned was numbered among all the soothsayers and astrologers. In modern times, we might say "He's just another New Age Psychic."
  
  But, he was true to God, and God was true to him. Nobody else knew. Nobody else understood. Nobody else cared. But God did.
  
  If you serve Jesus, and you are wrong, He will correct you in His time and in His way. If other Christians don't understand, then it's up to Jesus to correct them ... or you.
  
  I can tell you what the bible says. I can tell you what I believe it means. I can tell you why I believe that. I can tell you about the original languages. I can tell you how I came to those conclusions.
  
  But I cannot believe the bible for you. I cannot make you feel what I feel. I cannot make you see what I see. I cannot make you believe what I believe.
  
  And even if I could, I would not ... because that is not the nature of the King I serve.
  reply report
  82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Point of clarification "satan does NOT act against evil."
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I didnt mean you and I certainly was not looking for that kind of answer. I wish people would stop putting words into my mouth. I never said that I didn't believe in the Bible and I never said that Jesus is not my savior or anyone elses for that matter. I wasn't accusing you either, but other here and they know who they are.
  I don't have any doctrine and that is what people don't understand......to be a Christian they think there has to be doctrine of a church. Jesus didn't have a doctrine and he wasn't a Christian......he was I AM as is everyone else. He did not set himslef upon a pedestal, people did. He did not murder himself, people did.
  Doctrine is nothing of Jesus but of men who wish to contain Jesus and the love of God in their own little boxes...........not one person on this earth has that authourity or power or right to do that and there is no way they can becasue God and Jesus are in each and every one of us---no matter what or who they believe.
  I can quote from the Bible too, but what does that have to do with those things that are NOT written in such. What does that say about the other mircles that Jesus did? Absolutley nothing!
  Love is not in a box and love cannot be saved or used sparingly. To have love one must give it away and it doesn't come ina small conveniently wrappped up package and costs a thing---even salavation.
  
  Have a wonerful Day and go spread some love.
  reply report
  82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I was correcting myself!
  reply report
  57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I do not believe in Satan any more than I do in god. I am well aware of the bodies' energy field though.
  reply report
2. 82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The term "Christian" is quite broad. For example, a cesationist believes that miracles ended with the death of the last of the twelve apostles.
  
  For a follower of Christ, The question is not, "What do other Christians beleive" .... The question is "What does Christ Say"?
  
  Jesus said, "Heal the sick".
  
  He never said how.
  
  I infer, that it means, however He provides the means. Medicine, hands or "Reiki". I just call it healing.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes he did:
  Mark 16:17-19 (Young's Literal Translation)
  
  17`And signs shall accompany those believing these things; in my name demons they shall cast out; with new tongues they shall speak;
  
  18serpents they shall take up; and if any deadly thing they may drink, it shall not hurt them; on the ailing they shall lay hands, and they shall be well.'
  
  19The Lord, then, indeed, after speaking to them, was received up to the heaven, and sat on the right hand of God;
  reply report
  82
  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, I see what you're saying. There were other places where He just said, "Heal them" my intepretation is that this is not prescriptive, but instructional.
  reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
Mark said. "Well, I do not believe in Satan any more than I do in god. I am well aware of the bodies' energy field though."

I understand whereyou are coming from Mark. It is just that with those who are judging me as being Satanic, need to know that I AM NOT. There is a saying; "Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me."
That is a fallacie and words do hurt people in more ways then the accuser could ever know. I do believe that is against the word of God too.....So they are at that level of understanding and for them to understand I must use their level of understaning of learning. I think they think that I am claiming to BE Jesus but I am not and I don't think that they know or can tell the difference.
reply report
1. 57
  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, this all depends on how you read the bible I guess. I read it as no such thing as an external god/jesus/satan, and I do not believe in any of those concepts.
  
  Pretty sure the bible is clear on "not judging lest ye be judged," so I would take all those comments in that context.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  \\
  
  reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
If Satan wanted Jesus so bad then why was he not there when Jesus died on the cross?
reply report
66
Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
I didn't say that David was a God or was going to be. He states the the lord talked to his lord. If it was anything but that then they should have made it clearer to the reader.
reply report
1. 57
  Jouneyman2posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Lady Guinevere, note my corrected re-posting of the reply I presented to you. After I posted the reply to your question the usage of the two "Lord" 's kept nagging at me, so I thought something might be amiss in the original wording, hence I referenced back to the original 1611 KJV (that I usually study from) and found something very inteesting. See my re-posting for details.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I re-read you updated response. I am not using the KJV at all, but the Young's Literal Translation, which is prior to any KJV's. So you do agree that the translations and many bibles out there have mis-translations. This is a point that I am trying to make to many others who seem to think that I am just being rebellious and that I do not believe in Adam and Eve and religion.
  
  Thanks for clearing up that point!
  
  There is a difference in your approach to my questions then those from hard-core Christian's who think theiy are the only ones who know all the answers and I am blantantly wrong. This is the kind of conversation and learnoing that I like. Thank you for your delivery method. More people should be like you!
  reply report
  67
  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Young's Literal Translation was first published just 147 years ago.
  
  From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young%27s_ … ranslation
  "Young's Literal Translation is a translation of the Bible into English, published in 1862."
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ...........and your point?
  reply report
  67
  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Pardon me, it was JourneyMan2 that said "I am not using the KJV at all, but the Young's Literal Translation, which is prior to any KJV's." I was pointing out that the KJV was 251 years prior to the Young's Literal Translation.
  
  "When did Paul and Luke and Peter write their stories down on paper?" In the first century AD. LG you don't seem to realize that when you trash the Bible like you do you are also trashing your Young's Literal Translation and Christianity in general.
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, that was a response I knew you would give. History and things like that don't even enter your mind. How did you make it in school when you learned about history and geography---oh yeah you went to CCD and Catholic school and they give their rendition of world history.
  
  I said that I used the Youngs Literal Translation. I only use it becsause it is supposed to be the LITERAL translation and nothing added or taken away from it---but then again we know that isn't real because of what happened at the Council Of Nicea don't we. I am not trashing the Bible--that is YOUR interpretation of what I am doing.
  reply report
  60
  TheLoanConsultantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Totally!
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  .
  ..and I beleive that I explained myself
  reply report
57
Jouneyman2posted 15 years ago
A correction is in order here......................................

After I posted the above reply something came to mind. I checked the same verse in the 1611 and the "l" of the second usage of the word "Lord" is capitalized, however, it is not in the Bible I was referencing Lady Guinevere's question in. This of course can denote another translation possibility.

So, I contacted a friend who has studied both the Greek and Old English texts. Upon his first reading of the verse he got the same translation I did, but then after I mentioned the descrepency he suggested we reference back into the chaptr to isolate the overall topic as opposed to the immediate subject here (that David had not ascended into heaven).

As the overall topic is that of Jesus being proclaimed and reaffirmed as the Christ (deliverer) to the Jews, the sub - topic of David not ascending into heaven would have to be just that; a sub topic. But David's remark, as being quoted in verse 34,35 would have to be in support of that original topic; (Jesus being the Christ).

With this in mind he looked into the Greek and suggested that a better translation of the verse would be as follows : "The Father (God) said to my Lord (Jesus)..." , the issue being with the translation of the first occerence of the word "Lord" as opposed to the second.

His suggestions as to why the mistranslation... : some of the translators were of the belief that Jesus (The Lord, Son, Christ) and God (The Father) were the same personage. In other words, if taken literally the verse would read as if Jesus were giving testimony to David concerning a position he was aponting to himself.

My friend re-admonished that this is the very reason why it is best to avoid any of the newer KJV and other newer translations; because they arenot always carbon copies of the original texts, and those subtle mistakes can throw one off target dramatically.

Basically, he told me to throw out the newer KJV I have been using for the past month (because it is much smaller and easier to use than the 1611) and go back to using the 1611, as he had taught me to do in the first place.

So, the point is this...: the interpretation I presented originally was based on information I was reading in the version of the Bible I was using which aparently conincided with that which Lady Guinevere is using also, as her posting of the text matched what is in my newer KJV, but both are in error and therefore lend to the obvious mis-translation potential.

When one replaces the first reference to "Lord" in verse 34 ("The Lord"...) with "The Father"... the translation comes through as it is supposed to in support of what is being testified to the Jews in the rest of the chapter. The subtopic , of David not being ascended into heaven, is still the same.

Did I toss the newer KJV? No, I'll keep it around just in case a similar situation arises in the future. I figure its good reference material.
reply report
67
Make Moneyposted 15 years ago
Just correcting you.
reply report
1. 66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you trying to point out that my Bible is not as good as the Bible that you use?
  
  When did Paul and Luke and Peter write their stories down on paper?
  reply report
60
TheLoanConsultantposted 15 years ago
Unfortunately what many of you are saying about Christians is true. In reference to their character. And God will deal with them accordingly. Jesus said, "Every branch in me that does not bear fruit "My Father" =paraphrase= will take away." In their defense, it is not an easy thing to always have your belief system attacked, day in and day out. May your expectations be consistent. If you expect them to be so great, then why not believe their testimony? Or if you do not believe them because of their weaknesses then do not believe anyone, for that matter, in whom you see weaknesses. Make that your premise than if you will.

" I do not believe anyone in whom there is weakness."

Then after being consistent with your self ask yourselves these questions?

Do I have weakness? Do any of my friends or family have weakness?

Friend let me tell you something, in every belief system you will find someone with weakness. Scientists have weaknesses. No one care's if a scientist has weakness before attending his or her lectures. No one cares if any Buddhist or Hindu has weakness before signing up for one of their courses. So why the big concern about the character of Christians? Don't get me wrong, I do believe Christians should conduct themselves with integrity. But how a Christian conducts their self has nothing to do with the truth value of their propositions.
reply report
1. 66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What does weaknesses have to do with New Age and what is Occult?
  reply report
  60
  TheLoanConsultantposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are going to have to trace the thread to understand where that all originated from. I thought I already explained Christians view of New Age? Now in reference to the Occult; over recent years this term has become very hard to define. I use to think that it meant satanism or witchcraft, and indeed these topics could be placed in that category. But I have also come across material under this category that had nothing to do with neither and could very well have been placed in a Psychology section. So for those who are spiritually mature, you don't want to be ignorant of other operations. If your senses are trained to discern between good and evil and you have authority in the spirit realm and over demonic spirits, these aspects of spirituality is mere peanuts.
  reply report
66
RKHenryposted 15 years ago
I have a new question for Christians. How many of your are familiar with the Khmer Rouge? Have you seen the news about one of it's torturer's being a "born again Christian". It seems too be bearing weight, in the eyes of the court.

He is asking for forgiveness. What happens to people like this? This whole born again Christian thing, is really nothing more than an excuse anymore for bad behavior. Correct? How does that make you as a Christian feel?

Communist or not- this man was in his right mind. He knew, he knew right from wrong. And now? What? Christians, I'd really like to know how you all get along with this stuff? Not even in the Buddhist belief, is this man worthy of forgiveness from God; but no, in the Christian belief he could get off scott-free. I don't get it.
reply report
1. 66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There is another story that goes along with that. The person who admittedly started that big fire in California. I wrote a hub about it and not many people responded or even read about it.
  http://hubpages.com/hub/He-Gets-Off-Sco … Or-Does-He
  reply report
  66
  RKHenryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I normally don't do this, but I went to your hub listed as an answer to my questions. Although that Frank guy might get some bad Karma over the years. THis guy, this guy's defense is that he is now a born again Christian. Your Frank guy, was a non-believer or is now. While that all may change in Franks future, the dude I'm talking about is in court right now.
  
  But despite all that- while your hub had a tone of what comes around goes around- if this guy, according Christian beliefs, asks for forgiveness, HE's going to get it. He gets to go to heaven. That's nuts. How can Christians condone that behavior?
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't matter. He will still get what's coming to him no matter if he is any religion or born again anything. Karma is about everyone and there are no exceptions. He may LOOK like he is getting off free, but he really isn't.
  Christian's believe in forgiveness but they don't always show it--so it won't matter, he will get what is coming to him---one way or another.
  We don't know what his future will hold. He may get bvorn again status and then walk out of the court and get hit by a stray bullet or car or something may fall on him and he get killed or even be maimed for the rest of his life. There is always a punishment to fit the crime, good or bad.
  reply report
  66
  RKHenryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well put. Thanks for answering my question.
  reply report
  60
  countrywomenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LG- If it wasn't the fact that you are a Christian Minister I would have thought you are a Hindu...LOL
  
  But seriously any action/instincts/thoughts that have been released are bound to have a ripple effect either positive or negative. And according to Hindu philosophy the negative part can't be counter acted by positive atonement. But when one sincerely atones then when the effects of the negative part get exhibited then the atonement(and/or forgiveness by the affected party) help to strengthen the person(who is/was suffering) to withstand it. They say once a stone is thrown in the water ripples are bound to be formed hence one has to direct his/her actions/instincts/thoughts in a positive direction as far as possible.
  
  Therefore gradual progressive detachment practiced over a period of time is suggested to be a way not to get entangled in the vicious cycle. Btw I am just stating a point of view and by no means I live up to all that I have mentioned. I have hurt more people by my words/deeds than I ever visualized doing so. Have a great day folks
  reply report
  66
  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is where ontrolling your own mind and your thoughts come in CW.
  Oh I have had many teachers in my life and have had the pleasure (well may not be a pleasure in some instances) to be able to take myself out of a situation emotionally and see the drama that was being played out. Some Christians have allowed others to put blinders on them so they are unable to see, for one, who did it and why, and for another since they can't see who or why they will blame everyone and try to put everyone in the same spot they are in. It is when those blinders come off or are ripped off by some experience that they are able to see again.
  reply report
  60
  countrywomenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You bought a good point about controlling. My grand father once told me that there are many classes of humans but broadly classified as such: The lowest class of humans are those who can't even control there actions and tend to commit murders/rapes and other horrible crimes. Then the next class of humans can't control there instincts (i.e., when a handsome boy or a beautiful girl is passing by then trying to have a second look and so on). Then the last class is those who have mastered there actions/instincts and gradually are able to control even there thoughts. Such a class of humans is very rare.
  
  Usually humans are supposed to be a blend of all three in different proportions and hence no individual can be straight jacketed into a water tight compartment (of course there are bound to be exceptions to this)
  reply report
  61
  ElElyoneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "But despite all that- while your hub had a tone of what comes around goes around- if this guy, according Christian beliefs, asks for forgiveness, HE's going to get it. He gets to go to heaven. That's nuts. How can Christians condone that behavior?"
  
  Paul the apostle did say that he was the chief of all sinners, did unspeakable things before he came to faith, did them in ignorance.
  
  Was converted, went through untold suffering for his faith, plenty of details are given by his own words, wrote 2/3 of the NT and I know he is "in heaven"
  
  Who said anyone "condones" what so and so did?
  
  And what are your sins exactly?
  reply report
2. 61
  ElElyoneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did he come to know me before or after his crimes?
  reply report
60
sarmackposted 15 years ago
The New Testament of the Holy Bible supports Christians by telling them that once you have been reborn, you no longer sin. If a person is truly a Christian, that person is no longer a sinner and should not confess to be a sinner any longer.
May God Bless!
reply report
59
deefosterposted 15 years ago
New Age is a form of Humanism that incorporates worship of the earth, spirituality(not associated with true worship of God). It is very demonic and deceptive.

I think a good example is "The Secret" it promotes asking the "Universe" for what we need.

The "Universe" can give me anything. It was created by God just as I am. Everything I need comes from the Living God.

I cringed when I saw so many Christians get caught up in this book.
reply report
64
Angel Of Loveposted 15 years ago
The New Age is about to come...
reply report
1. 59
  deefosterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  what are you referring to... in the context on this particular discussion... Im not sure I understand your post
  reply report

Post a Reply

jump to first post

Necessary
HubPages Device ID	This is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
Login	This is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google Recaptcha	This is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
Akismet	This is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google Analytics	This is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic Pixel	This is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web Services	This is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
Cloudflare	This is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted Libraries	Javascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)

Features
Google Custom Search	This is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google Maps	Some articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google Charts	This is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host API	This service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTube	Some articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Vimeo	Some articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Paypal	This is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook Login	You can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Maven	This supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)

Marketing
Google AdSense	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClick	Google provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index Exchange	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Sovrn	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook Ads	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad Marketplace	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexus	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Openx	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon Project	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLift	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say Media	We partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing Pixels	We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking Pixels	We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.

Statistics
Author Google Analytics	This is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
Comscore	ComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking Pixel	Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
Clicksco	This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)

Christians A question For You

Arts and Design

Autos

Books, Literature, and Writing

Business and Employment

Education and Science

Entertainment and Media

Family and Parenting

Fashion and Beauty

Food and Cooking

Games, Toys, and Hobbies

Gender and Relationships

Health

Holidays and Celebrations

Home and Garden

HubPages Tutorials and Community

Personal Finance

Pets and Animals

Politics and Social Issues

Religion and Philosophy

Sports and Recreation

Technology

Travel and Places

About Us

This website uses cookies

Christians A question For You

Related Discussions

This website uses cookies