This may also include sinners or homosexuals. How many times have we read signs from those who call themselves christians that "God hates sinners"? So is it wrong for them to hate God back?
God doesn't hate sinners.
And a knowledgeable Christian will never say that He does!
So where does that idea come from? I hear lots of atheists and other nonbelievers infer that, and refer to Christians as haters. That's an attack on Christians, a lie of the Devil. It's part of his being the Accuser of the Brethren.
So.....your entire thread is based on a misconception or false propoganda. Do you not know that God doesn't hate sinners? And yet you're perpetuating the idea that sinners should hate Him.................
The Bible tells us that while we were sinners, Christ died for us. If He hated sinners, He sure wouldn't have given up His life for them.
There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him:
- haughty eyes,
- a lying tongue,
- hands that shed innocent blood,
- a heart that devises wicked schemes,
- feet that are quick to rush into evil,
- a false witness who pours out lies
- and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
Yup, God hates non-believers as we are accused of a number of those things by Christians.
He hates the sin, not the sinner. Sinse everyone is a sinner, do you propose that God hates us all?
Didn't Jesus stir up conflict in the community?
For God so love *the world... that He gave His only begotten son, that *whosoever should believe on His name should not perish, but have eternal life.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Where do you get that God hates unbelievers?
From denominations such as the westboro baptists for starters. I even heard known baptist Paul Washer say that God hates sinners. Youtube it. Btw, I fully agree that God loves all, but I hope someone who believes that God hates sinners can answer my question.
One of my favorite pics. I hope you can see it.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid … mp;theater
It's in the Bible, I just quoted it above.
"Christians" who flout their opinion that God hates sinners are Pharisaical; putting on the appearance of righteousness like "white washed tombs' but inside are filled with self righteousness and hypocrisy.
I don't see why it would be wrong for "unbelievers" to hate God when all along they have been told a lie.
Why would non-believers hate something that doesn't exist. That's like saying I hate Leprechauns who ride Unicorns in the Kentucky Derby.
The question is directed to believers, not unbelievers.
It wasn't an answer, it was a question. Btw, I waste little to no time on determined unbelievers who enjoy their God bashing tactics. Feel free to never comment on my posts again. Have a nice day.
In other words, you aren't interested in hearing anything that doesn't agree with your beliefs. That would be a indirect way of saying you have no intention of learning anything.
I welcome all Christians beliefs regardless if they do not agree with my own beliefs. I just don't waste time on an athiest that comes here looking to pick a fight by rediculing we Christians and our beliefs. have a nice day.
How does anyone learn anything from your methods? Hours wasted, and for what?
v. mocked, mock·ing, mocks
1. To treat with ridicule or contempt; deride.
a. To mimic, as in sport or derision. See Synonyms at ridicule.
b. To imitate; counterfeit.
3. To frustrate the hopes of; disappoint.
To express scorn or ridicule; jeer:
1. to consider or speak of (something) as less valuable or important than it really is; disparage
2. to cause to make small; dwarf
Words or actions intended to evoke contemptuous laughter at or feelings toward a person or thing: "I know that ridicule may be a shield, but it is not a weapon" (Dorothy Parker).
tr.v. rid·i·culed, rid·i·cul·ing, rid·i·cules
To expose to ridicule; make fun of.
[French, from Latin rdiculum, joke, from neuter of rdiculus, laughable; see ridiculous.]
Synonyms: ridicule, mock, taunt1, twit, deride
These verbs refer to making another the butt of amusement or mirth. Ridicule implies purposeful disparagement:
Yes, and your religion deserves to be mocked and ridiculed.
How about the methods employed by believers?
dishonesty n pl -ties
1. lack of honesty or fairness; deceit
to mislead the mind or judgment of; deceive:
: belief and trust in and loyalty to God : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
I think picking a fight isn't his reasoning behind his post, but the means in which he achieves his purpose which is to derail the conversation. Sadly, this aproach has been successful more than not.
But that is just my opinion.
gotta go out.
That is a lie. I am sticking entirely to the subject matter of each post. The ones who derail threads are those who use this place a chat room, not focusing on the subject matter at all.
There is the evidence for the derailing of threads.
Beth, there is a simple solution to the problem with athiests such as TM. Ignor him. Dont even take the time to look at his post under notifacation. there is nothing productive from someone who wants to destroy and break things he doesnt like.
I actually don't read his posts about 80% of the time... the other 20, I just skim.
enough talk about him, where were we?
Really? You like creating forum hate threads aimed at atheists? And, you want to make sure others don't acknowledge the intruders who don't like hate threads aimed at them?
Hmmm....now that's something I'd like to see!
Haven't seen you in a while, ATM. Hope you're well.
God is LOVE. It's people who 'hate' others. Unbelievers cannot find God because they look to the people instead of looking into their own hearts where 'love' abides. God is simple, selfless, unconditional love. Anything else is religion.....JMHO....
Becareful how you use the words "unconditional love", because according to many Christians, His love has certain conditions.
God is everything.
When God created the universe, he created duality, all of the poles of opposites. Love is His preference, I am sure, but there is much more to god than "Love'.
Duality? What is the duality of heaven?
Right and wrong
left and right
male and female
pairs of opposites is what I mean, but I'm pretty sure you know that
Sorry, that is not true, God places a lot of conditions on his so-called love, which is more along the lines of selfish pettiness that only a despot would offer.
Imagine that you are a parent and your child becomes addicted to crack Cocaine, You do not hate that child! You may say that you hate the drug and/or the behaviors of that child while they are addicted to it, but you never hated the child. But do you really hate the drug? I don’t think so; you hate the fact that the child is addicted. This is a physical addiction. Some people might say that a person and their addictions are one and the same. They can not be separated.
The question would then be, When we die and leave the physical realm, the physical addiction is left behind. You might use a metaphor like … the addiction is thrown into a lake of fire which burns forever.
Now being a loving father, would you throw your child who is no longer addicted into the fire where the addiction now is? The punishment the child has already received is that he has wasted his life in that addiction when they could have had a much happier life if they had not.
It is written that we are not to be judge and executioner but If I were
At that point in time I would say to that child, (concerning punishment and sentencing) “Time served”
What a lovely and honest way to see God. He is a loving parent who only wants to save us from our sins. Speaking as someone who struggles with addiction, I am so glad to know God is on my side and working to bring me to a place where I can be free.
I still believe that God created Hell for satan and his demons, as the Bible says, but I believe God makes every effort to save us from this destiny. He is the definition of Savior.
Thank you for that story and maybe God did create hell fire for satan and his demons and maybe satan is a metaphore for the adiction of choice and demons are the radical behaviors which comes after the adiction whatever that might be?
I don't know! that is just what comes to mind?
@Jerami, that is my belief as well. Demons are not entities, but illness of the body and mind, and the devil is our carnal nature on earth. Afterall, is it not written that nothing is more decieful than man's heart (not the devil)?
I've tried to find it in scripture and can't ...but am pretty sure I read that "the fires of hell are contained within the spirit of mankind". For whatever that means ... might have been a poem ?
When you do find it, try finding the proper translation to the word that hell replaced.
I gave up looking for it long ago. Might have been in my grandmothere Tisdale version. I was a young kid and don't remember what version it was? Do know that hers wasn't the KJV.
Do remember several verses that were in it (grandmas bible) that would send shock waves through the followers of the KJV
To you both... We know that satan is not representative of our sin etc. He is a real and living entity. We know that as he is mentioned throughout the old and new testament... the very catalyst for man being seperated from God, in Genisis:
"So the Lord God said to the serpent:
"“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”" Gen 3:14-15
To God destroying his reign and throwing him in the lake of fire in Rev.:
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Rev 20:20
Say whatever you want... but if it doesn't agree with the Bible, it is a man made belief and not of God.
Jer 17:9The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? Problem solved.
Beth37 write ...Say whatever you want... but if it doesn't agree with the Bible, it is a man made belief and not of God.
Beth; I read several sources long ago that the KJV was the least accepted version of the bible until the late 1800s. And it was also at that time that the futurists views of Revelation became the most popular.
"...but the word of the Lord endures forever." And this is the word that was preached to you."
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
"The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures forever."
"Your word, LORD, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens."
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."
I wouldn't sweat it. And I wouldn't use any excuse to start making up your own rules. The same laws are true now, that were true for Adam and Eve. Don't be fooled.
So I guess Martin Luther and tysdale were heritics.
Any translation of scriptures other than the KJV was deemed unacceptable by the Church of England.
Tysdale was executed for translating his version. The Church of England proclames the KJV as the only true word of God. However for the next four hundred years the tysdale version was the most popular.
Imagine all of those people going to hell for reading the wrong word of God.
I really don't mean to be rude, just asking a legitimate question.
Absolutely not... The KJV is no more the end all of translations than the Message is. Or "The Groovy Bible" which is what I called that one in the 70's that said "One Way" on the front I think.
My point is... God's word can be trusted. Man's word cannot.
If a Bible has been re-worded to suit a denomination's beliefs, it is no longer fully valid, but scripture that has been translated from the dead sea scrolls... I wouldn't ever discount or we are left to make up our own truths and call God a liar.
Gods word can be trusted! absolutely! But do we suppose that the tyndale version was/is more reliable than the KJV. Can we trust the translators to have chosen the best translation of many of the Hebrew or Greek words that had numerous meanings?
I think that we have to have division concerning these things to keep our minds off of more destructive ideas that we otherwise would come up with.
In the end, when we have died and gone to the afterlife, many of these things won't matter as much as we now think they do.
The real problem is that the modern day church teaches doctrines based on interpretations of a book that was translated from a book translated from a book written by men who never lived during the days of Paul and the other apostles.
I have to agree that IS one of THE biggest problems with the modern day churches.
Another of "The" problems is that many of us again interpret these interpretations thinking we have found the final NEW and IMPROVED interpretation.
When searching for answers in scripture, finding ourselves lost, we should do as we would do when being lost in the woods. We return, if possible, to the point that we first discovered that we went in the wrong direction, and try a different direction. The difficulty is in determining exactly when that was.
And yet, "Man's word" has brought you the computer and internet connection so you can write in these forum, along with every other modern convenience.
Gods have brought nothing but war, hatred and ignorance.
Beth Genesis makes no mention of Satan. It was the Church in the second century that first linked talking snakes to a being called satan. Jews don't make that association and we have no evidence that the apostles did either. The snake is the 'yetzer hara' or inclination to sin. Eve was actually talking to herself: "shall I, shan't I,......, oh go on wt the heck."
Don't take this wrong, but 'says you.'
You saying it doesn't make it true. I say God is real, the Atheist says the burden of proof is on me... You say Eve was talking to herself, not Satan, I say... 'Not so much.'
In genesis, it never specifies that the serpent was satan. In fact, it goes out of its way to say that the serpent was the craftiest of all creatures, etc - and then god cursed the snake. Why curse snakes if it was really satan? Claiming that it was satan in the garden only happened later. It was a later extrapolation and not present in the original story.
Furthermore, the "curse" that god put on the snake was not really a curse at all. It was a blessing of sorts. Snakes are some of the most proficient hunters in the world - because they are on their bellies. So if god was really trying to punish the snake for its wrongdoing, it kind of backfired. Maybe god just didn't have that kind of foresight.
As Ive said before, the Bible cannot be taken apart. It stands as a whole and must be taken in context. The verse Gen 3:15, was prophesy referring to the fact that Jesus would destroy Satan... also referenced in the New Testament in Romans 16:20.
"And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." Gen 3:15
Rm 16:20 "The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you."
There is no satan in Genesis. Please research the history of Christian beliefs. They have evolved over time but some myths have been around so long Christians think they are true.
Satan in Hebrew means adversary, and the adversary to God is our carnal adamic nature.
there are many such myths or mistranslations such as our being cursed among others.
Actually DH, I would go as far as saying it was Adam who spoke to Eve to eat the fruit.
Dude, I loves ya, but ya just can't keep making stuff up. The bible says clearly who she's talking to.
3 Now the serpent was the most cunning of all the wild animals that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You can’t eat from any tree in the garden’?”
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit from the trees in the garden. 3 But about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God said, ‘You must not eat it or touch it, or you will die.’”
4 “No! You will not die,” the serpent said to the woman.
Love you back sister, but has it accured to you not to take everything in gen literally?
No. As a matter of fact, quite the opposite. I once heard a teacher say, whenever you can take the bible literally, do it. Makes a lot of sense... that way Im not running around letting my active imagination and every wind of doctrine tell me what to believe about the most High God.
Ok, so how many wolves have you seen lately wearing sheeps pelts. Be very careful of what you hear from those who call them selves a teacher, because Paul told us that there will be many false teacher when he is gone.
It's funny that *you are giving me that warning.
I didn't say there was no imagery or parables etc. in the Bible... I said when it can be taken literally... I do.
Ok, in Luke 16 we find the rich man and lazerus. What does it mean to you?
I believe, this is a parable. Jesus is trying to convey many things here. Not only the realization that money cannot buy your way into Heaven, but that the suffering is great and that the chasm cannot be crossed once the division is set. And probably the main point, that there are some ppl, who no matter how God reveals Himself to them, it will never be enough for them to place their faith in Him.
Actually it is about the end of the old covenant and the beginning age of the new covenant. This chasm you were talking about has another meaning and it pertains to those who call themselves Jews.
Think about it Beth. Christ said in John 6:63 that His words are spirit and life. Who is the rich man and who is Lazerus? The rich man is symbolic for Judea and Lazerus is symbolic for the gentile nations. The warnings from Christ that you hold as the belief of hell, actually mean this parable in Luke 16. The destruction of Jerusalem, temple and the end of the old covenant. John warned the Jews about this in Matt 3:10. Paul who taught us all what God wants us to know, never once warned the gentiles about Gehenna fire, let alone a place called hell. Think about it.
You may be right... Jesus may have used this to warn the... (you are saying Lazarus would be the gentile nation? Ok.) However, taking it in context, I would be far more inclined to say it was Jesus taking the opportunity to turn a metaphor into an opportunity to warn the lost that their riches could buy them nothing when their lives on earth came to an end.
There are 162 references to Hell in the NT, and over 70 of them were spoken by Jesus, so I have no idea what you mean when you try to take the warning of Hell out of Bible.
Riches have nothing to do with the parable. Judea was rich in blessings from God while the gentile nations were God,s enemy. Judea would not share the blessings from God with the gentiles. they would not share God with the gentiles, and btw, there are over 600 verses in the entire bible that says that universal salvation is God's plan.
But I would say that is your interpretation... as well as universal salvation. There is too much of the Bible I would have to throw out to believe that.
Gandalf is mentioned throughout all three LOTR books.
And, as we continue to discover how our universe works, we find those beliefs sinking to obscurity only to be embraced by those who have only tenuous grasps on reality.
deeply troubled man, please take your insults somewhere else. You are more than welcome to not join the discussion on my hubs or forum posts.
Sister, God did not create hell, Christians did. God's has already reconciled all of mankind with Him because of the obedience of one man. Christ Jeshua. God is the saviour of all men, especially we believers. This great news is worth giving praise and glory to the all high. For He is perfect, infailing love. It saddens me that this is not being taught in the church as it was believed by the apostles and saints after the day of penacost and the apostle Paul.
Did you know that the ancient Greeks use brimstone as a divine source to purify? The Greek word "basanos" in Rev 20:10 means touchstone (testing).A touchstone tests the purity of prescious metals such as gold and silver. Can Rev 20:10 symbolicaly relate with 1Cor 3:10-15? I see the connection.
But, if the child comes to you and says he no longer believes in Jesus, he's out the door onto the street before you can say, "Amen"
for what it's worth ... been reading most of your posts and I think we think alike on most things..
To expound on what the Bible says concerning Hell.
Does God want anyone to go to hell? No.
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, but that ALL should come to repentance.” (2nd Peter 3:9).
So why did He create it?
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS." (Matthew 25:41).
If we are not yet saved from our sin, what does the Bible say?
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:18).
So what must we do to be saved?
"Now when they heard this, they were acutely distressed and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “What should we do, brothers?” Peter said to them, “Repent, and each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:37-38
Beth, I like your 2 Pet 3:9 and it echoes Paul's statement that it is God's will that all men be saved.
Now does God have a weak washy washy will to save everyone, but deep down he knows he will fail and 95% of humanity ends up in hell? I say no, because I believe Isaiah 46:
10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, “My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.”
11 From the east I summon a bird of prey;
from a far-off land, a man to fulfil my purpose.
What I have said, that I will bring about;
what I have planned, that I will do.
So if he plans and wills to save ALL of humanity, he most certainly will do it.
Here is a lot of information on how other religions, societies and cultures depict hell. You'll quickly notice your God doesn't have a monopoly on it.
Oh GOD why this man is on HUBPAGES
he rather be Hell_Pages :p
Here's the thing. If you're going to post a forum topic in a place where anyone and everyone is free to comment and express their view, you include non believers in the title of the thread, completely miss the point that you cannot be angry at or hate something that you don't believe exists and then try to say that the very unbelievers you're talking about are not free to respond or should be ignored, you're behaving extremely disingenuously.
Heres the thing, If i wanted to read redicule and insults from athiests, I would not have posted this question under Christianity, the bible and Christ.
You got to admit that the forums are open to everyone, just because you didn't direct this at atheists doesn't mean they can't respond. I do wonder why they would bother going to the religious forums though?
That depends on the atheist. Some are actively seeking converts, some are bitter ex Christians and some simply like to pick at people. Kind of like Christians. Except for the ex Christian part. And then there are a few that are here because they do enjoy the dialogue.
Ive never been recruited by an atheist, what are they recruiting for?
People crave consensus. They are simply looking for people to agree with them on the subject of God.
I imagine it's very lonely in some places, being an atheist in an overtly Christian country. I got ostracized myself when most of my friends became active in the Church. And I'm just an agnostic. I hated Christians for a while and then figured it wasn't their fault for dissing me. People have a need to belong. And they like to be part of what they consider to be a majority. Atheists actively seeking converts are no different from the Christians doing the same thing. Imo.
I once had a female baptist minister show up at my house with some literature and wanted me to pray with her, we wound up in a heap on my bed, we never got to praying.
I converted her to my dark side. I'm very persuasive when I want to be and she was damn good looking and I wanted to be.
And this stupidity is why I dont waste time on athiests.
wow...and that is every bit as judgmental as the right-wing christians who condemn us to a hell you don't believe in.
No, it is all a part of the traps you athiests like to set for Christians so you can call us judgmental.
This thread is the epitome of judgmental.
Can you ever tell me one thing that I did to you personally that makes you feel justified in not only lumping all atheists in together in a group, creating discussions about us that you don't feel that we're welcome to participate in and even visit my hubs where I'm discussing things with other christians and tell them that I'm not worth talking to?
Why are you setting traps? So, you can call atheists stupid?
It's entertaining....better than watching Jerry Springer. Is he still going?
And how am I, an atheist, insulting or ridiculing you by posting my opinions?
But, you felt it perfectly acceptable to create a hate thread under Christianity, the bible and Christ regarding atheists. Highly disingenuous.
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