Yes of course, once they realise that the enemy is holding them in a degree of captivity, by making them strident and judgemental.
I have learned that you can lead a horse to water, but not make them drink, but also that "One sows and another reaps" and my encounter with someone may need to be the feather that tickles their interest or a sledgehammer that cracks a hard shell - so the answer is always be ready to explain about Yeshua to anyone who expresses any interest, but never judge whether they will eventually come to faith and salvation, that is strictly between them, Jehova, Yeshua and the Ruach Hako'desh.
John, this is beautiful.
Ego tries so hard to hold us captive. I love the tickling feather approach. You used that on me to help wake me up about Big Pharma and 9/11. I was so wrong! (LOL)
But I love learning more than the sound of my own voice. In creative writing class in college, my papers were the most read, because I hungered for the criticism to make it better.
I would say that there's about as much hope as there is for atheists who behave the same way.
Atheists aren't trying to force you to accept reality, you have to do that on your own.
True. But some of the atheists are trying very, very hard to get me to see things they same way they do and are not sparing with the scorn and derision when I don't. So my point stands.
They are somewhat shocked you can't see the reality they present to you. For some reason, you keep rejecting it when it's right in front of you. The scorn and derision is when you disagree but can't validate your disagreements with anything but less reality.
Trust me, dear, l got that you make my point for me and don't seem to see the irony.
Hi Chris. I think you may know I don't harbor much faith in the fact that you could be right on your take on reality; but I have to tell you this exchange was priceless. You slam dunked your point. Well done.
Yes, you always seem to say that to everyone when no one has made your point, why is that?
Trust me, sweetheart, you only serve to reinforce the point you insist you're not making.
Oo, hey! Cancion del Mariachi is playing! Cool song!
Sorry, but saying that doesn't make it true. I am not your sweetheart.
Accepting reality is one thing (and a good one), but ignoring the source of all reality is not so smart.
Atheists really DON'T CARE if you believe as they do. They are happy and secure in their beliefs. It is THE RELIGIONISTS who CARE, CARE, CARE! If they did not care about how others believe, they would not go around prosletyzing ad infinitum!
Wow. You obviously don't deal with the same people I do.
If they are "happy and secure in their beliefs" it is only because they are living a lie and are in a sense deluding themselves that what they don't know can't hurt them. They have not sought the truth or like Kirsten Powers have never even been introduced to it - here is an atheist from a family of atheists who was open minded enough to see the truth once she was introduced to it but like many atheists she was shielded from the truth all her life. (maybe a reason why gmwilliams doesn't deal with the same people you do Chris) Listen to what she says and you can't claim she isn't intelligent because she was an atheist so by some atheists' reasoning (like some of those here) she had to be intelligent. I suppose on her conversion she has now lost her intelligence - is that how evolution works? http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ … anity.html
Atheists aren't living a lie. YOU do not have the right to determine other's ethical/ spiritual beliefs/principles! People have the right to live and experience their OWN TRUTH. No one has the right to DICTATE to others as to what to believe. There is a SEPARATION of church and state in this country. Why are YOU so concerned about other's beliefs? Being concerned about other's beliefs really SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT YOU, not them! Atheists, Wiccans, Pagans, and other non-traditionalists have THE RIGHT to their beliefs!
Would you agree that Christians be afforded the same courtesy and rights?
I only ask because you appear to be attacking Christian religionists as a group. Yet defending other religions with that post.
Good point, Emile.
Not all Christians believe in a 6000-year-old universe. At least one believes Noah's Flood occurred 27,970 BC -- right when one species went extinct -- a species which matches the description found in Genesis 6.
But the age of humanity was the real shocker for me. "Adam" the tribe appeared on the scene 10,434,130 BC -- in the middle of the Miocene Epoch. Perhaps those artifacts found at Valsequillo, Mexico were real and 250,000 years old, after all. Perhaps some of the early anthropological finds of the 1800's really did find human bones more than a million years old, despite what the skeptics say.
Skepticism isn't even the best paradigm for investigation. It contains the powerful bias of doubt. Restraint and humility are far more neutral.
Uh yeah, that is the point of being skeptical, to question things people believe, like gods and miracles and other such nonsense. Doubt is not a bias, it is simply the difference between belief and disbelief.
i love how you make putting other people down like the only sensible thing to do. Pity you can't take it as well as you dish it out.
Uh, where did I put anyone down? I talked about skepticism and doubt. Why can't you be honest?
You mean like you?
The set up
then the put-down
You seem to equate whatever YOU are skeptical of with nonsense.
And in all the times that you've accused me of dishonesty, you've as yet to prove it. As far as I can tell, it's more the fact that I disagree with you than anything else that you seem to classify as 'dishonest.'
Clearly, you're just trolling, so when you get your act together and stop trolling, I'll respond to you.
Clearly, I'm not. Every time I ask you to do the one thing I would accept at any time (aka - prove it) it's alway met with these sweeping statements. And that's the standard response I usually see you give. If you don't like what the person says to you, you usually make that same response ("You're dishonest, you're just trolling.") You don't explain, you give no examples, you just make the statement and act as if your word is sufficient.
Yet you say I'm dishonest.
Not really, most of those believers are usually laughed at by everyone else. They may still continue to believe their nonsense as they struggle with reality and their own ignorance, but for the most part, they have very little influence over others, expect for others maybe who are as ignorant as them.
Correct in your premise. Intelligent people DERIDE such people. They actually believe that such people are totally delusional in their premise. It is really an act of desperation of the part of such believers. They seem to be grasping at straws. It is so sad how they "try" to convert people. They seem so unhappy and went others to be just as miserable as they are!
Oh boo hoo - so you feel so persected do you? Like it harms you to listen to someone elses opinion that differs with yours? How is that? I suppose you figure the millions of "religionists" that have been persecuted and killed throughout history desrved what they got for expressing their views and beliefs? Like you have to listen to anyone? No one is forcing any belief upon you and that is plain absurd to even suggest such a thing in the United States of America - ever hear of freedom of religion? If anything it is the non-religionists who wish to force their beliefs upon religious people through government policies like under this administration...ever hear of The Little Sisters of the Poor?
Give me a break, in Iran you'd be killed for your beliefs.
You are so put out, aren't you. You want to rant pick a topic worthy of a rant, instead of deflecting from having a real discussion about truth just to cry like a baby, " I don't want to hear it."
We're not really listening to opinions as we are listening to someones absolute truths about reality. And, they aren't even their truths to own, they are the truths born from simple ignorance thousands of years ago repeated by them today. It shouldn't compel someone to bang on my front door and tell me all about it, should it? Nor, should they be threatening me with dire consequences from Gods wrath if I don't capitulate, yes?
We're not being persecuted, there are laws against that. They no longer burn witches for very much the same reasons.
It is when those so-called truths enter the public decision making processes that it affects us all, often more overwhelmingly negative consequences compared to positive contributions.
Sure, ever hear about separation of church and state?
Yes, they recently won a Supreme Court victory to be exempt from offering contraceptive coverage with their healthcare benefits.
In other words, a policy that was put into place for all was not acceptable by the nuns because of their religious beliefs. They won their case. That should be good news for you.
In a secular society that offers freedom of religion to it's people and is not influenced by any particular religious beliefs, does stand by its words when it does make for those allowances.
What is so bad about that?
And, you wouldn't be killed?
Maybe, not as much as you think.
You're entitled to believe lies if you want, and what you just said is lies and simply demonstrates that you have done no real investigation into what the truth actually is - you simply chose to believe whatever agrees with your preconceived notions. Not exactly scientific is it. Some of the most intelligent people in the world would agree with me, but that doesn't make it true. The truth is the truth and it isn't your truth or my truth, it is not relative and if you were a truth seeker you would know that. You aren't.
gmwilliams loves to paint everyone with a broad brush and make totally false and baseless accusations like "Intelligent people DERIDE such people. They actually believe that such people are totally delusional in their premise."
It is true that some intelligent people are so arrogant as to behave that way but she implies that if you don't you are not intelligent. If you don't agree with her how could you be intelligent? All people who believe in god are stupid brainless monkeys. Why people like her have to take that tact is beyond me because it only reveals their inability to analyze the facts and discuss them so they have to resort to arrogant condescending remarks to belittle their detractors and thus make them feel vindicated for taking a position they can never in the real world actually defend. There is a reason why atheists are in the miniscule minority of the worldwide population and it's not because they are the only intelligent people on earth.
gmwilliams, you said, "Intelligent people DERIDE such people."
That says a lot about you. Pure Ego -- selfishness and separateness. That's the death of civilization being foretold.
Obviously no one will ever convert you. You "know-it-all."
Not all Christians are alike. Some (a small number on forums) actually use love instead of blind dogma.
The real problem with those Christians who don't use love is the same thing that seems to have blinded you -- Ego.
When the rescue mission is over, civilization will "rise" to the lowest common denominator -- selfishness. Nothing but wailing (victim) and gnashing (perpetrator). No Star Trek Federation. No Kurzweil Singularity.
What do you mean by "any hope for", and who is doing that to you?
Ah, someone who recognizes a facade when they see one. A facade is a false, superficial, or artificial appearance or effect which gmwilliams is trying to create, implying that religionists (which I don't think is even a word but must mean people who have a religion? or believe in the supernatural and express their beliefs, not just Christians) have no hope to give up their beliefs and think like her so all "religious" people who don't think like her but express their beliefs publicly are "doing it to her". Sounds a little like paranoia to me or just a way to avoid facing the truth. Her hope is for them to shut up so she wants to create the facade that they are hopeless and stupid. Her motto "Let's marginalize anyone who doesn't think like me"
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