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When Christ said Judge not that ye be not judge, what did he mean?

  1. profile image61
    haj3396posted 5 years ago

    only that if you are judging weather a person is going to heaven are hell, then that's something you can not judge.

    1. Chris Neal profile image81
      Chris Nealposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      That comment was directed against the Pharisees, who thought themselves qualified to judge who will make it into Heaven and God's presence. But it's something that we would all be well advised to heed. Although Jesus did tell us that we should make disciples of all nations, it is still only ourselves who we can be sure whether we are going go Heaven or not. And really, it's God who makes the decision, no matter who we're talking about!

      1. Ruben Rivera profile image78
        Ruben Riveraposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Basically we make the decision since we are part of God, free will, free choice no judgement

        1. profile image61
          haj3396posted 5 years agoin reply to this

          You have no free will outside of God, you free will is in God.

    2. Jerami profile image73
      Jeramiposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      I'm thinking that this is saying, that we are going to be judged with the same amount of visiousness that we use upon others.

      1. Ruben Rivera profile image78
        Ruben Riveraposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Total human concept.  Fear fear fear to appeace the masses

        1. Jerami profile image73
          Jeramiposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          When the final curtain falls .... We will then see that we were ALL wrong.

        2. Chris Neal profile image81
          Chris Nealposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          So what's the total Godly concept, the one with no fear fear fear?

      2. Chris Neal profile image81
        Chris Nealposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Well, you're both right. It says in the Bible many times that we are not to judge who will make it into the "kingdom of God" because it is for God alone to judge who is worthy and why. But by the same token, by the stick we measure with so it will be measured back to us.

    3. mischeviousme profile image59
      mischeviousmeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      He meant stfu and pay attention to how you yourself are affecting the world and very few christians follow the guidelines.

    4. galleryofgrace profile image82
      galleryofgraceposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Very simple- All men are created equal. You are not better than your neighbor. Judge someone and you will be judged. This can be weight , height , looks, job, wealth or anything else. It will come back to haunt you.

    5. Druid Dude profile image60
      Druid Dudeposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      It means he's not a fan of 'American Idol' ?

    6. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Apparently he wasn't talking to the fundamentalists or perhaps they simply considered it a suggestion.  lol


                                    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6186572.jpg

  2. Leann Zarah profile image83
    Leann Zarahposted 5 years ago

    If you're judging another person, you're subjecting yourself to be judged as well. Christ said it well when He advised that we treat other people the way we want them to treat us - including our decision to judge or not to judge others.

    1. profile image61
      haj3396posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Judgment is talking about where the person is going, heaven or hell, not judgment on their action, or their decisions. By their fruit you shall know them, this is what God said. God is saying look at their action or what they do and that will tell you weather they are christian are not. A good tree can only bare good fruit and a evil fruit can only bare evil fruit.

  3. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    I'm sure those who fervently believe in divine retribution can find a lot of cosmic stuff in that saying. I took it more down to earth. More inward, when I read it. Sometimes I wonder if those who claim to abide by the New Testament wouldn't be better off incorporating a little of that take into their philosophy.

    Everything involved in judgement is hypocrisy. No one is perfect. So, when you judge others, they will judge you. The more rigidly you  look at others and condemn them if they don't live exactly as you do; the more minutely, and harshly, others will judge your life and the way you live it. It's proven to be an ugly thing, at times, here on Hub Pages.

    Secondly, it involves judging yourself. If you are consistently judging others. Such as appearance. You become self critical. You judge yourself unworthy when you are a person of value.    Fat, when you are of normal weight.  Ugly because you think your boobs aren't big enough or your nose is too big. The list is endless and judgement becomes the focus of your life.

    Both of these create disharmony for society at large, and the spirit within.

    1. Chris Neal profile image81
      Chris Nealposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      That's not bad, but remember that Jesus lived in a time and place where the "religious big-shots", the Pharisees and the Scribes held sway over people in ways that most Americans can't imagine today. They felt entitled to decide who was going to make it into Heaven and thought they had it all together and even entitled. Jesus was pointing out to them that it was for God to judge people, and they should be more worried about whether they were living the way God wanted them to than whether they could tell other people how to live.

      1. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Yes. But we are neither Jesus, or God. I can't help but note that your description of the Pharisees sounds spookily like the religious today.

        I realize it is easy to see this on a cosmic scale. Very easy. And viewing it cosmically keeps you from truly taking the admonition to heart.

        1. Chris Neal profile image81
          Chris Nealposted 5 years agoin reply to this



          Yes and no. I'm Protestant, not Catholic, and I get the feeling that most nonbelievers are thinking of Catholic priests when talking about "the religious." Of course, there is hierarchy in different Protestant denominations, and the scandals that break out from time to time often involve a pretty fair amount of hubris (Ted Haggard comes to mind.) But the average pastor (and I suspect the average priest here in America) doesn't have anything like the sort of power that was enjoyed by the Pharisees in the 1st century or even the priests in the 13th century.



          The cosmic scale is that it is God's to judge, as the Bible pointed out often. Jesus meant us to take it to heart. Very much so.

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Most comments I make concerning the religious are a by product of reading comments online. So, no. The catholics aren't who I am speaking of. From the posts, I would say I am referencing mostly pentecostals and other evangelists. Maybe a Calvinist or two.

            You reference the cosmic scale. I would answer the words in the New Testament, paraphrased. Love God, love your neighbor. Commands are meant to be acted upon for the benefit of both.

            1. Chris Neal profile image81
              Chris Nealposted 5 years agoin reply to this

              Wholeheartedly agreed. It's a pity that more Christians don't keep that in mind, and I'm ashamed that I'm guilty of that.

  4. recommend1 profile image65
    recommend1posted 5 years ago

    I got from it that yet another so-called christian can't quote properly, or maybe spell.

    "Judge not lest ye be judged" - is the simplest form that I recall seeing. and a very different meaning from the way it is written in the OP. 

    Very clear advice that being judgemental from a position of ignorance is only passing judgement on yourself.

    1. girlgonestrong profile image60
      girlgonestrongposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      The idea that Matthew 7:1 says "Judge not lest ye be judged" is a myth of American collective consciousness.  It is never translated this way in any major version of the Bible.  Neither "spare the rod, spoil the child" nor "God helps those who help themselves" are in their either.

      Visit this link and use the pull-down at the top of the page to verify that it's not written that way if you wish: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se … ersion=KJV

      1. profile image0
        Motown2Chitownposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        "Judge not, that ye be not judged." 

        So, that's the translation to which you directed us.  Either way, the meaning remains the same.  Judge not.

        Regardless of the reason, we have indeed been told by Christ not to judge others.  I am of the opinion that judgment is the exclusive prerogative of God.

        Unfortunately, as human beings, we feel it necessary to judge others...by our standards. God judges according to His.

        I'm so grateful for that - because His mercy far outshines anything humanity is able to offer.

        1. girlgonestrong profile image60
          girlgonestrongposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          Your interpretation that this verse essentially means "Don't judge anyone about anything ever" is wrong.  I'll show you why and then help you understand what the verse means when it is taken in context.

          Exhibit A) Immediately after this Matthew 7:1 passage Jesus gives instruction on how to tell who is a false prophet in verses 15-20.  Verse 20 is "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."  How are you suppose to actually discern when a false prophet is teaching what its heresy if you abstain from judging?  Also, read the section and notice that it says nothing about judging their words, but instead directs us to judge their LIVES!  Read it for yourself here: http://tinyurl.com/7matt15-20

          Exhibit B) Jesus says in John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." How are we suppose to judge with righteous judgement if we, according to your interpretation, are not suppose to judge at all?

          Exhibit C) In 1 Corinthians 6:1-8 the Apostle Paul rebukes the Christians at Corinth because they are suing each other in civil court and giving the name of Christ a bad name.  He specifically says in vs 4 "If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church."  He tells them in this passage that they should be judging between each other and settling issues before going to court.  How can this be if nobody is to be judging anything?  Read it for yourself here: http://tinyurl.com/6cor1-8

          Exhibit C) In regards to leaders in the church at Ephesus, Paul COMMANDS Timothy (the young pastor) in 1 Timothy 5:20 "As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear."  Notice that Paul has ALREADY judged these people, is commanding Timothy to do so, and tells him to do so in an open manner so that the rest of the church can be scared straight!  Is the Apostle Paul violating Christ's own command not to judge anyone about anything and then telling another believer to commit such as sin as well?  Not if that interpretation of Matthew 7:1 is incorrect.

          There are many more of such examples.  The fact is that Matthew 7:1 does not preclude Christians from calling out sin where they see it and naming it as such.  Let's find out what the verse really means by reading it in context.

          Matthew 7:1 AND 2 "Judge not, that ye be not judged.  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

          When verse two is paired with the second particle in verse one (that ye be not judged) we find that what Jesus is refering to is not being quick to RASH judgement because IF you are dragged before some form of judgement seat, they will use the same type of judgement against you.  If you were harsh on others, then you'll receive the same so be sure to follow John 7:24 and judge with righteous judgement so that if the roles are flipped you can be shown charity as well.

          Now that you know the truth, don't ever again make the claim that the Bible tells us that nobody is allowed to judge anyone on anything ever.  That is the thinking of moral relativism (everyone has their own truth) which is grounded in post-modern thought which people try to inject into scripture.  It is not there and it is always wrong to try and make the Bible say what we want it to mean.

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Your exhibit A: Interesting that you would note that. Because, the woman in the street was clearly guilty of adultery. Jesus didn’t chastise the crowd for wrongly, or rashly. accusing her. By law, the judgment they stood ready to mete out was fair. So, your claim of not being quick to RASH judgment is simply an excuse to judge. An attempt to rationalize behavior patterns that go against a clear teaching.

            Your exhibit B: John 7:24 cannot be used in the manner you are attempting. He was talking about himself. He was talking to the religious leaders. He was chastising them for condemning him for performing miracles on the Sabbath. He was attempting to reason with them. Now, they were nitpicking the law to find reasons to condemn him. Isn’t that what Christians do, on a daily basis, in order to condemn the non believer?

            I often wonder why the Christian doesn’t read the text and take it at face value. Why attempt to turn admonishments that are clearly against certain behavior patterns within your own heart and turn them upside down to use them against others?

            Your exhibit C: 1 Corinthians 6:1-8 appears to be an admonishment to settle differences within the church and not embarrass the church by washing dirty laundry in public.  Judgments of who is right, or wrong, according to the law has nothing to do with judging others. It has everything to do with what is legally allowed. And the court of secular law is, by common agreement of those who live within a society, allowed to judge what is correct under the law. You, as an individual don’t have the right to judge someone guilty under the secular law. This passage has nothing to do with judging right and wrong on a spiritual level.

            1st Timothy appears to be speaking about the manner in which overseers and deacons should oversee their congregations. It has nothing to do with you sitting in judgment of the world at large; but how those who have been placed in a position of authority within the church should act. You can’t use this passage as reasoning behind your right to fabricate a high horse to sit in judgment of your fellow man. The world, at large, is not the church or the congregation.



            And, I would submit that for every example you attempt to use to justify sitting in judgment; you are attempting to turn the initial command not to do it against itself. If you want to sit in judgment, now that you know the truth, simply admit that you wish you hadn’t been commanded not to do it.

            1. BrianMI6 profile image60
              BrianMI6posted 5 years agoin reply to this

              It is amazing to me how people can try and weasel their way around what we see demonstrated in scripture in order to cling to this adulterated "judge not" idea.

              How many clear examples do we have in scripture of the Apostles judging sin and calling it what it is yet people today insist that calling people out for openly sinning somehow violates Jesus command. 

              What does it matter that Paul's command to Timothy was in regards to leaders in the church?  He still told Timothy to judge them.  So we're not suppose to judge people at all according to Christ's words but that principles doesn't apply to leaders in the church?  They are somehow free game for judgement?

              I suppose that Peter was wrong for calling Ananias and Sapphira liars in front of the whole congregation of the church in Acts 5 then.  Doubly so for invoking the power of the Holy Spirit to have them drop dead on sight.  Then we see that this caused everyone in the church to stand in fear.  Wait a minute, that seems to be the very result Paul was hoping to see when Timothy obeyed his command to rebuke in the presence of all!

              Or how about when Peter shuts down Simon the Magician in Acts 8:20-22?  I'll go ahead and quote them for you:

              "But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!  You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you."

              Here we have Peter not just judging someone's actions but the thoughts of their heart as well!  He calls out sin and then commands this unbeliever to repent!  Imagine that.

              Finally, back to the woman caught in adultery thing.  The fact that she was caught in adultery and that the punishment for that was death does NOT mean that Jesus was standing against the Law of Moses.  Jesus never violated the Law and never commanded anyone else to do so or else he would NOT have qualified to be the Messiah as the Christ was required to keep the whole law in order to be a qualified substitute for all of mankind.

              People who like to play fast and lose with this passage forget that the Torah forbid mob violence such as we see here.  The process for prosecuting capital crimes was to have the accused brought to the assembly of elders at the city gate where the accounts of two or more witnesses would be evaluated descently and in order and the accused could mount a defense.  This was a REQUIREMENT and not an option.  The mob of Jews brought the woman to Jesus, not because they cared about justice, but because they wanted to trap Jesus because they knew he was compassionate.

              We see then that Jesus was NOT going against the law in forbidding the judgement of the woman, but was actually UPHOLDING the law by not allowing a mob trial.  Furthermore, once the crowd dispersed, there were NO WITNESSES left against the woman!  The Torah required the testimony of two or more witnesses in the case of a capital murder trial.  Again, since there were not witnesses and Christ himself was not an eyewitness, he was UPHOLDING the law by not allowing the woman to be stoned.

              Jesus did NOT establish a precedent in the story of the woman caught in adultery that sin should not be called out as sin.  People just like to write that concept into the story because it seems to justify allowing them to live in sin and to be able to have to "Bible reason" to tell anyone else not to tell them that what they are doing is wrong.  Sad...very sad.

              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                A precedent was set and simply because it doesn't fit the religious ego is no reason to pretend that it wasn't set.

                Look to the mote in your own eye. Let others worry about their own. If you are somehow elevated to the position of Christ.....we'll all see it clearly in your words and actions and your judgment of the way we live our lives will carry more weight than simply the weight of your ego.

                1. BrianMI6 profile image60
                  BrianMI6posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  What you said makes absolutely no sense.  Christ never set any precedent for refusing to call sin what it is....sin.  Mark it where you see it.  It was Christ himself that laid out the guidelines for marking out sinful people in the Church and how to properly deal with them.  Just so you know, step 3 was kicking people out of the church.  Read it for yourself:

                  “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."

                  You must not read your Bible every day or so, do you?  Only someone that doesn't know what the Bible says could possibly insist that Matthew 7:1 means "don't judge anyone about anything ever".

                  1. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                    You simply don't get it. How, exactly, does that reference fit the conversation? How has the non believer sinned against you? How has a woman in the inner city in need of an abortion sinned against you? How has the person you deem hell worthy sinned against you? How has someone you've never met sinned against you?

                    I know it is fun to sit in judgment, but just admit it's what you enjoy doing. Admit you'll turn any reference into justification.....whether it is reasonable to do it or not.

          2. vector7 profile image61
            vector7posted 5 years agoin reply to this

            God bless your heart!

            Bravo!

            And double that post. I'd quote it verbatim. It's beautifully explained.

            smile

            1. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 5 years agoin reply to this

              Unfortunately vector, insisting that judgment is cosmically mandated plays to the ego. I think there is enough of that to go around without  jumping through hoops to pretend you've invoked the name of a god to back it up.

              Show me one place in your scriptures where it does give you clear mandate to go against the simple words outlined in the OP. Not what girl did. None of those clearly imparted the lesson she is trying to push.

              You guys are so good at insisting you have the right to judge us. Unfortunately, even a blind person can see it is simply your ego demanding that right.

              1. grinnin1 profile image86
                grinnin1posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                I have commented on your objectiveness before and I think most of your comments are openminded to both Christians and non-Christians alike.
                But I have to disagree with you on this one. Read carefully what girl is saying and you'll see the wisdom behind it.
                Do we not judge the inhumane treatment of women in the Mideast, should we turn the other way when we see physical abuse of children,and who says which is more abusive, spanking a child or letting them play video games 24/7? Do we not judge dictators who decide to kill whomever they please? We have to discern right from wrong, good from evil, and have some basis and standard for those criteria.It's the standard that is argued. So if we don't agree on the standard? Do we let go of standards altogether? I think that's exactly what we've done in the name of non judement. Don't offend, don't state you beliefs, don't stand for anything- because someone will disagree with  you and call you judgemental.

                I think our society has confused "tolerance" with "there is no right, and there is no wrong". So now when someone brings up their criteria for a belief in what is right and what is wrong- for instance, the bible- they are attacked simply because they bring into play something that in it's very essence, is  judgemental.
                Some believe today that gay marriage needs to be supported, for instance, but would not endorse legalization of child pornography. Why? Isn't that "judging" what is right and what is wrong? Who is allowed to have sex with whom? No! of course not! You are stepping on that child's rights by taking advantage of them! But what if "enlightened" future generations decide that an adult should have the 'right" to do what he/she is compulsed to do sexually, as long as, say, the child is consenting?- Then are we to embrace that new morality/tolerance as a society? Why and what standard are you basing that on? And why should I adhere to your standard of right and wrong. Over time, societies and cultures have embraced every kind of abnormal, warped and twisted and wicked behavior. We could hypothetically justify ANYTHING.

                At some point total tolerance embraced by a society does not work simply because we cannot maintain a society without having right and wrong. The verse you use about taking the log out of your own eye is in very essence a judgement
                I think of the old saying, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. I think the MAJORITY of people today do not stand for anything more than "tolerance". You might offend someone by stating what you believe. Yet, I think as a society, and if you look around on hub pages, it's the very people who claim to be most tolerant, liberal and open to everything that do the most attacking with the most hatred and anger against those who believe or stand for something they do not.

                I understand what you mean, originally,Emile. I think that Jesus meant we are not to sit in judgement as God sits in judgement or we will be judged by the same criteria. But I have to agree with girl about expounding on that concept, especially to today's society because I think much of the bible is simplified and watered down by people now to the extent that it means nothing.It means whatever you want it to mean. Whatever right is to you...I've heard it all and I was indoctrinated with it by almost every professor I had going to university in the 1990's.I had one professor make everyone bring their bible to class (sociology) and underline the things Paul said that she didn't agree with. Then told the women in the class that we ought to have the right to walk around nude and men should be enlightened enough to not gawk or bother us.

                  The bible is not just a book to make people feel good about themselves and be nice to everyone and tell everybody they can live anyway they please and we'll all go to Heaven because God loves you. It's inspired and difficult and contradictory and harsh at times, and yet simple enough for a child to understand. It is the word of God and no matter what society or age we live in, those of us who call ourselves Christians will try our best to do what God wants us to do, not what society tells us is politically correct or tolerant. Just putting in my two cents, here..

                1. profile image0
                  Emile Rposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  You are mixing levels of judgment here. We determine what is right as a society. We, as a society, have an obligation to maintain standards of conduct that ensure freedoms; life,  liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

                  But, the admonition not to judge was directed at individuals. Not the Roman government. If Christians worked to get their own houses in order first...showed that their houses were in order....at that point this constant need to judge the lives of other individuals might make sense.

                  Everyone claims this is a Christian nation. Statistically....judging by what faith most profess, this is true. So, the ills within society can reasonably be argued to be Christian ills. But you attempt to project them onto others. You ignore the mote to rail at the sliver. It's insanity.

                  Prove your words and your faith by your actions. Stop judging others. Judge yourself.  Clean up your own house. It is in no less disarray than is mine, or anyone elses.

                  1. BrianMI6 profile image60
                    BrianMI6posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                    Why did the Apostle John call out Diotrephes for talking wicked nonsense in 3 John 10?

                    Why did Paul tell Timothy that the Cretans were "liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons" and then command him to rebuke them SHARPLY in Titus 1:12-13? 

                    Why does he go on to call out false believers who profess to know God but deny him by their work are detestable and disobedient in Titus 1:16 if Jesus told Paul not to judge anyone?

                    How can God's word be effective for both reproof and correction as stated in 2 Timothy 4:16 if we're not suppose to judge anyone about anything?  How do you reprove someone with the scripture if you don't judge their actions as wrong and in need of reproof?

                    Why does Paul chastise the Church at Corinth for winking at sin in allowing a man who has decided to take his step-mother as a mistress in 1 Corinthians 51-2?  In your world, the Apostle Paul should stick to picking the mote out of his own eye instead of calling out a sinner for his sin.

                    The entire BOOK of Jude is written as a condemnation of the sins of unbelievers!

                    Again...I have to wonder how often you actually read the Bible...because this "don't judge anyone about anything" nonsense falls completely apart in the context of the entirety of scripture.

                  2. grinnin1 profile image86
                    grinnin1posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                    I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph, Emile.
                    And I want to tell you that I divorced my ex-husband because of his hypocrisy about religion.I do not follow the typical "religious right" profile. I am an artist and a divorced mother of two. I grew up with two psychologists as my parents- not known to be a conservative profession. I question my own beliefs, I don't judge or preach to non-believers and I have non-believers as close friends and relatives.
                    But in response to our country being Christian, although it started as a Christian nation, is absolutely no longer a Christian nation and hasn't been for a very long time. And when you look statistically at when America began to disentegrate morally, there is a direct correlation between the rise of humanism, free sex, love and "peace", and - no standards of morality. The rebellion of a country against what generations had stood for previously caused our country to decline as a whole... (my opinion)
                    I am not saying that as a "Christian" country we did not create our share of horrible sins against mankind. Beginning with murdering innocent women in Salem, Massachussetts. Dishonestly and forcefully taking an entire people's land and killing them off in the name of progress and greed. Selfishness, rape, murder, slavery, hypocrisy. So  I am not trying to project any of our problems, new or old, on non-Christians. Christians have not historically done a great job in promoting what we profess to believe, if you ask me. The Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, for example. But God's own Chosen, the Jews, have not done so well either, nor did they lead a shining example in the Bible.Yet they never have become "unchosen". So apparently, we all have a lot of room for improvement, Christians and non Christians alike.
                     
                    But what I am saying is, as a democracy, our government was made to be an outgrowth of the people. What the people believe, the government will become. We believe nothing. And we encourage belief in nothing. We teach it to our children. We believe in "me" maybe,or some vaque spiritual being larger than ourselves, perhaps....
                    So our government-

                    reflecting people who believe nothing and stand for nothing and tolerate anything -

                    Is at present and will continue to be void of the ability to determine right and wrong because the people have lost the ability to see right and wrong.

                    Ben Franklin said, and I am not quoting here- that when the morality of the people is disgarded, democracy as a working concept will cease to be. I truly believe that's exactly the spot we find ourselves in today in America.

                    I don't believe in judging others myself, because I know that I am far from perfect, I know I have been judged by people, and I don't think that as one of Gods creations, I have the mind of God to judge his other creations.

                    But will I judge whether a law is good or bad based on my standard of morality, the Bible? Yes, by my vote and by using the freedoms of expression we have in the U.S. Many would say that I am judgemental for holding and expressing views and voting for laws that I believe God would have us do as a country. Here are some issues facing the country that I will not vote for: see how you judge me-
                    I believe in Jesus Christ as my savior
                    I will speak against and  not ever vote for legalizing gay marriage.
                    I will speak against and not vote for healthcare mandated for everyone by the government
                    I will speak against and not vote for abortion, ever, to happen after 3rd month unless a woman's body is in danger.
                    I don't think that public schools should hand out condoms and will vote against it.
                    I do think public schools should have the right to say a prayer over the loudspeaker, and to invoke the name of God in the Pledge of allegiance and I do think they shoudl be allowed to post the 10 commandments. And I will vote that way.

                    These are not the sentiments you will hear on NPR, which I listen to, by the way, Unitarian churches, schools or universities across our land. They are not popular because they are definitive, judgemental statements in their essense to someone who does not believe the same way, yet, what I believe will come through in my voting, and the voting others who believe the same. Laws that are produced from "the judgemental ones" will be percieved as judgemental, unfair, bigoted, etc.
                    Those that believe the opposite of everything listed will vote the other way and laws come of those votes that allow for anything and everything, disregarding morality, the Bible, and the Constitution. Because they don't share my beliefs in those things.
                    Will I judge those people? No. Will I vote against them and give my opinion. Yes. Does that make me a judgemental person in their eyes? I think so, today, in America, those statements above make me a prime target.

                    I'm saying as a nation we have lost the ability to have standards, or make judgements,because the majority of people don't have standards of morality that mean anything or are based on anything meaningful. That is at the heart of the problem.
                    So they are swayed and stand for what is politically correct. What sounds good.  Tolerate, don't offend, believe whatever you want to, it's okay. And anyone who says anything differently is an egocentric religious right fanatic trying to push their religion on everyone else.
                    The reason you think that I am confusing the two- individual and collective judgement- is because the outgrowth of no belief, no standard of morality, and therefore no place from which to judge what is right and wrong as individuals is no belief, no standard of morality and no place from which to judge what is right and wrong as a country -

  5. SpanStar profile image61
    SpanStarposted 5 years ago

    I have never been able to get behind the idea that people are not to judge at all. Do not judge at all is to say we should have not judged the Japanese for bombing Pearl Harbor, we should not have judged the South and their treatment of Black Americans, we should not have judged the Ku Klux Klan for the hatred they spread across the country, we should not judged the bomber Ted Kaczynski, we should not have judged Timothy McVeigh, we should not judged the tragedy of 09/2011 etc.

    http://www.capalert.com/judgenot.htm

    This website addresses that question Just Not.

    1. White Ghost126 profile image61
      White Ghost126posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      This is simple and yet you guys are making it a big thing! This phrase means dont look down on others for their sins because you will be judged for your sins in the time to come.

  6. Jerami profile image73
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    I would not want to be standing in front of God, asking for love and forgiveness, Having my heart full of hate, unforgiveness,


      It is fitting that I be measured by my own measureing stick.

    1. recommend1 profile image65
      recommend1posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Jerami

      We have this as a concrete, real, situation in teaching in the argument for and against subjective testing of students.  An objective (outside) test prduces a measure of the ability of the student - and - in total it provides a measure of the teaching.

      Subjective tests - measuring yourself - leads only to bad teaching, poor student performance, and cheating lying lazy teachers rising to the top.  If this maxim is a christian way then this may be why so many church leaders are obnoxious human beings.

    2. Chris Neal profile image81
      Chris Nealposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Well said.

  7. Jerami profile image73
    Jeramiposted 5 years ago

    If we still lived in a Perfect world?
      It would be wise to kill sin before it grew so-to-speak.
      We do not live in a perfect world.
      All we can do at this point; each and every individual. is to attempt to clean up our own immediate enviroment. And hope it grows.

    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      That's very well said jerami.

  8. jacharless profile image76
    jacharlessposted 5 years ago

    Oh Crickets.
    It is often I abstain from the Xian Forums anymore, for possibly this very reason.
    Stuff like this pops up and makes you feel like Al Pacino.

    Judgment:
    It is necessary, inevitable and unavoidable, should a person be breathing.
    But judgment in a very different manner than most perceive.

    Know the saying: "Take the plank from your own eye before you notice the speck in another?" Or this one: "Whomever is without 'sin' be the first to cast a stone?" Neither one pertains to judging, but rather prudence -self analysis, yet are often tossed into the salad with judging people.

    Y`shua ben Yosef made the point clear: judge them by their fruit.
    What then is in question?
    What then is judgment?
    What is it to judge righteous -or by righteous(ness).

    That which is produced by the action/evidence is what is in question.
    Judgment (complete inspection) of the product is necessary for others to avoid the same trifles.
    To judge by righteous(ness) is to see that product from the perspective of its effect on the individual and collective.

    Sadly, human tendency toward judgment is based on law -be it civil or moral.
    I suppose the term 'hate' the 'sin' applies. Judge the outcome, certainly -for good or bad- and recognize what effect it has. But, to judge the individual person immediately puts one in the spotlight for equal judgment (condemnation or reward according to the twin-rules of civil-moral).

    Oddly enough, Y`shua ben Yosef sat, talked, drank, laughed, cried, ate, traveled with, bled, fought with and eventually died next to 'sinners'. Not once did he judge them, but rather their works. Exactly what he said for his followers to do -judge the works of faith, not the works of the mind or body. Even the teachers of those laws he didn't judge according to their rules -which is one thing that really pissed them off! He judged their fruits. Which made them even more furious! He judged the result of their years of following the rules, for the sake of following the rules... Keynote; He judged the Law and the fruit of it.

    One could easily judge an Xian individual, by not following the rules of their own book, as equally as one could judge other individuals who squawk about the book, but also do not follow its rules, when in reality, the real judgment of both is the fruit of their labor. In the paraphrased works of Jerry MaGuire: "Show Me The Harvest!"

    People have asked repeatedly, if I hate Xians, Hebrews, Muslims, Scientists, Capitalists, etc because of what they believe/disbelieve. My answer is always the same: I dislike all Theos, because of the effect (fruit) it has had on humanity since the Inception. And until I see evidence of good fruit, I will continue to despise Theos for its rot, but never the individual caught in its web...

    James

  9. Mighty Mom profile image88
    Mighty Momposted 5 years ago

    Internal and external consistency seems to me to be the crux of this.
    Whatever criteria you use to make judgments on others -- harshness, intolerance, love, forgiveness, etc. -- know that the same criteria will be used on/against you.
    The harder they judge, the harder they fall, one and all.
    (love that Jimmy Cliff!)

  10. Blueblue8Gum profile image57
    Blueblue8Gumposted 5 years ago

    means cannot judge....

  11. Lisa HW profile image82
    Lisa HWposted 5 years ago

    I'm not "big" into religious definitions, books, etc. etc.; but the thing about "judge not.." is something with which most of us are pretty familiar. 

    I've always interpreted it as meaning two things:

    1.  That no human being should be making assumptions about who else is "a sinner" in God's eyes.  I suppose there's the factor that someone like murderers or child molesters will be judged by other people as "bad" or "evil", and I suppose, maybe, that's where the "..so too shall ye be judged" thing comes in.  I'd assume that (assuming there is a God) if we judge something God thinks is "a sin", then when we're being judged the question would be whether we've been guilty of whatever that thing is. 

    2.  I more take those words, though, as "words to live by" separate from who is judging what's a sin or evil.  I take them more to mean judging what others do in general.  For example, judging someone who gets a divorce by assuming "they just didn't take their vows seriously enough" (and essentially "condemning" them for their choice).  What can often happen when people do that kind of thing is that someone (or life) comes along, makes them aware that they'd either do the same thing in the same circumstances (as the divorced person happened to be in), or else makes them aware that their judgment is based on ignorance and a sense-of-superiority that isn't warranted; and - voila - the person who judged has been judged (by someone) or revealed (by life/circumstances) to actually have inferior thinking to the person s/he judged.

    3.  A lighter example of the same kind of thing might be the kind of thing that "went on" in the song, "Harper Valley PTA", when people judged the mother in the song; and when she turned around and pointed out all the things about all of them that made them look a whole lot worse than she did.

    1. Chris Neal profile image81
      Chris Nealposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      The actual context of the statement is Jesus telling the religious leaders of the day not to judge who would be entering the Kingdom of Heaven because the yardstick they used to exclude some, God would use the same yardstick to measure them. The implication being that they would be found wanting.

      Of course, we can apply this to our lives today. The point is that we should not judge others but should focus on our relationship with Jesus, making sure that we understand what is necessary to make it into Heaven. We should still avoid sin, both externally (other people's) and internally (our own.)

  12. Lisa HW profile image82
    Lisa HWposted 5 years ago

    I'm not "big" into religious definitions, books, etc. etc.; but the thing about "judge not.." is something with which most of us are pretty familiar.  Since I'm not someone who thinks a lot of people trying to guess what someone else meant when they said something (because that can amount to trying/presuming to be a mind-reader), but since I think "the judge-not thing" isn't such a bad policy, here's how I've always interpreted it.

    I've always interpreted it as meaning two things:

    1.  That no human being should be making assumptions about who else is "a sinner" in God's eyes.  I suppose there's the factor that someone like murderers or child molesters will be judged by other people as "bad" or "evil", and I suppose, maybe, that's where the "..so too shall ye be judged" thing comes in.  I'd assume that (assuming there is a God) if we judge something God thinks is "a sin", then when we're being judged the question would be whether we've been guilty of whatever that thing is. 

    2.  I more take those words, though, as "words to live by" separate from who is judging what's a sin or evil.  I take them more to mean judging what others do in general.  For example, judging someone who gets a divorce by assuming "they just didn't take their vows seriously enough" (and essentially "condemning" them for their choice).  What can often happen when people do that kind of thing is that someone (or life) comes along, makes them aware that they'd either do the same thing in the same circumstances (as the divorced person happened to be in), or else makes them aware that their judgment is based on ignorance and a sense-of-superiority that isn't warranted; and - voila - the person who judged has been judged (by someone) or revealed (by life/circumstances) to actually have inferior thinking to the person s/he judged.

    3.  A lighter example of the same kind of thing might be the kind of thing that "went on" in the song, "Harper Valley PTA", when people judged the mother in the song; and when she turned around and pointed out all the things about all of them that made them look a whole lot worse than she did.

  13. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 5 years ago

    "God" inspires everything. 'The part christians ignore' everybody is ignoring. Ignoring is denying. Denying the spirit makes them anti-christian.

    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      That wasn't what I was referring to, but that's a nice thought.

 
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