Does God exist? ;)

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   God shetposted 10 years ago

   Does HE?

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      Buildrepsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      A self propelling mathematical Universe requires no deities. But people can become God. God's can exist, but the Universe requires non to create it.

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      fortressrainbowposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Lol! If He doesn't exist -- can you exist????

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         D A McCarronposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Of course. Why not?

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      Titen-Sxullposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Well it depends on what we mean by God.
      
      If you're referring to a specific deity or deities than the answer might be determinable, if you're talking about a vague or unfalsifiable definition of God (which many are) than we'll never have a definitive answer.
      
      In my opinion it is both highly unlikely and nearly impossible that any of the gods human beings worshiped, presently or in the past, actually exist.
      
      Or to put it another way, I'm pretty sure that there are no gods but not absolutely certain. We can be more certain when talking about specific God concepts like the Biblical God or Greek pantheon of gods but when it comes to the overall concept of gods we really don't know.
      
      Personally I don't think the word god has much use to human beings anymore. The gods we have believed in, and the ones we still do, are likely fictional and any being out there in the cosmos that we are unaware of that might fit the general definition of a god we would actually be better off describing it as something else. In other words if we discovered a being that could communicate telepathically with us, manipulate matter with its mind, etc, calling it a god would just lump it in with all the fictional beings we had previously believed in.
      
      At least for me, as an atheist, the word god appears to refer to a fictional supernatural entity either said to be responsible for some act of creation or other miraculous phenomenon. These beings are typically anthropomorphic (although some incorporate animals none of them incorporate anything truly otherworldly) and their goals are typically shallow and anthropocentric (telling us what to eat, what to wear and who we can have sex with, having goals centered around the human animal almost exclusively).
      
      This anthropomorphism and anthropocentrism are big red flags that gods are fictional as a powerful cosmic supernatural being, if it really existed, has no immediately discernible reason to care whether we eat shellfish, have sex before marriage or throw a virgin into a volcano to appease them. In fact why gods, if they existed, would care about human beings with such a bif Universe, is a mystery best solved by the fact that we made them up to explain unexplained aspects of nature and to make ourselves feel special.

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         fortressrainbowposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Do You believe in Satan?

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            Titen-Sxullposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Given that Satan is tied to an existing mythology that I don't believe in, no.
            
            Like I said in my post I'm an atheist and I think it's highly likely that every god we humans have ever believed in is imaginary (with the possible exception of things like Sun worship, obviously the sun exists, however it is not a god). Yahweh, the JudeoChristian God doesn't exist in my opinion and so believing in his arch-nemesis (or business partner depending on interpretation) Satan wouldn't make much sense.
            
            I don't believe in the supernatural at all though it is a subject that interests me and not one I would consider myself absolutely certain of. There is always the chance of being proven wrong, true skepticism and open-mindedness require me to admit that I cannot be absolutely certain.

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               fortressrainbowposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               then our existence will be imaginary... and the beginning of everything will float in the air... and our lives will keep hanging for there's no trace of our existence even science can't explain it... but a theory that until now is a theory.
               
               We are all entitle to choose things that we want, but why keep choosing the more base less theory of life? Why not choose the worthless and base less things but has salvation in the end... everything is uncertain... but why keep choosing the most uncertain?

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                  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Because you are far more likely to have chosen something that is real?

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                     fortressrainbowposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Something real... but does not guarantee truth, that is why many are empty even though they are so full.

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                        wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Nor does imagination create reality.  Which is why many are empty even though they think they are so full.

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                           fortressrainbowposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           Wrong. Those things has a never ending emptiness. While the one God's offers satisfy the soul, and gives joy to the heart, and all of us feel that. That is the big difference of imaginary thing of the uncertain that has no end. than to the uncertain that has salvation. And I don't think you never felt that.

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                              wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              I don't doubt for a moment that your imagination gives you much joy and happiness.  It does for a lot of people, and there is nothing wrong at all in that.
                              
                              On the other hand, some people prefer NOT to pretend that their imagination has actually produced a real god that actually exists and has the attributes they wish him to have.  They get nothing from such pretense and make an effort to live in the real world rather than an imaginary one.  They lose out on the warm, fuzzy glow of thinking a father figure watches over them, choosing instead to live in the hard, cold world of reality, but it IS their choice and they feel better for making it.  They even accept the reality of dying one day, as we all must do, without undue regret or sorrow.
                              
                              As a result, of course, they also feel no "joy in their heart" in pretending there is a god out there.  Perhaps they miss out on something there, but at the same time perhaps the "joy in their heart" comes from not knowingly living a lie.

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                                 Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 Maybe that pure joy in your heart is a small portion of the Whole.
                                 And evidence of it.

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                                    wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    And maybe not.  Why decide it IS without every knowing?  Because it feels good seems to be the answer here - a rationalization that is simply neither useful nor appropriate to a lot of people.

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                  Titen-Sxullposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Admitting to myself that most supernatural phenomenon are imaginary doesn't mean I am not able to appreciate the supernatural or paranormal in the same way that I know that Spider-Man and Lord of the Rings are fictional but I am still a huge fan of both.
                  
                  However I am not going to deceive myself into believing something just because it makes me feel better, lessens my fear of death or is somehow better than what actually is. Of course everyone is entitled to make up their own mind and by no means do I entirely rule out the possiblity of the existence of gods or the supernatural.

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                     fortressrainbowposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Same here but I guess in a different way, I am not going to deceived myself with what the world dictates, but keeps corrupting a person's mind and life.
                     
                     Believing in every reality of this world shows me no peace, and a never ending doubt, destruction  and uncertainty is the only thing it has. While believing in God, gives my life a path that has peace, and no matter how tough it is, everything is working fine, pain and wounds heals but never gotten worst. Never saw one Christian who follows God until the end had an ill fate. I really do pray that God will continually knock to your heart until it opens, in Jesus mighty name.

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      Richawriterposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      First of all, I wouldn't say God even has a "sex" so we can't refer to it as "he".
      
      No one could say for sure. How do we even know that all the science we are fed is even true unless we've actually tested it and proven it for ourselves? How do we even know history itself isn't fabricated? School text books aren't the truth, I'll tell you that for nothing.
      
      But I digress. Sorry.
      
      We could look at it from many perspectives.
      
      What if the concepts of "beginning" and "end" are manmade? What if there is no beginning or end and that the natural order of life is for it to exist indefinitely? Then this might answer the question. There is no God, only a system that lives on and on eternally. Then we could surmise that human beings are born again after death perhaps in another form.
      
      What if all this was created by mankind, only a super advanced mankind millions of years ahead of us? Just think. If you were a super advanced species and you wished to get a glimpse into your own long gone past from hundreds of thousands of years ago, how would you do it?
      
      Humans create, we are in a way, Gods in a sense that we create and control and assign rules.
      
      So then, this advanced species created Earth and all life on it, simulating their own birth world and seeded human beings on it. They could then sit back and watch, and study, learning about themselves and their own journey to their advanced stage. Now, humanity has reached the point where we are also creating things, as those who seeded us are able to do, only on a much much much lesser scale.
      
      Then we are just an experiment, and they could terminate us at any time because they wouldn't want another version of their species running around causing havoc would they?
      
      Then you could also say that according to the laws of nature, something doesn't come from nothing. It's simply not possible. You couldn't have a pool of water on a dead planet that suddenly sprouted life for example. It doesn't happen. It needs to be seeded with the building blocks first, then, if the environment is conducive, that life might evolve into something more. That begs the question: Who seeded that pool? Who seeded the one who seeded the pool? Who seeded the one who seeded the one who seeded the pool? and on and on. Where do the building blocks come from?
      
      That's just a couple of the things I think about in terms of God.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         If you did not create yourself… and let me remind you, you know very little about how your body even works… then how can you doubt a creative, intelligent (gross understatement) force which has been evident through the process evolution and exists in our VERY selves.
         God is beyond intellectual comprehension.
         Just go with it. Thats what I say.

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            wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Wrong question.  Right question: desiring to alleviate our ignorance, how can you NOT doubt a made up story without any evidence of truth at all? 
            
            Answer: because it satisfies the desire to have answers.  Right or wrong doesn't matter - any answer at all will do - and thus is accepted.
            
            As you say, just go with it; truth is not the desired result, only an answer.

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            Richawriterposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Hey,
            
            Did you not get that I was having fun?
            
            NO ONE knows these things.
            
            Maybe someone waved a magic wand and we appeared here? Maybe, maybe maybe--baby.
            
            Just have fun.

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         fortressrainbowposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Crazy! this is crazy! Lol!!! I wonder where does idiots came from... those who created the humans and terminate us whenever they want too...
         
         Just so bless, never have to battle myself with worthless  battle of life. Because God Jesus is the best creator of the whole wide world. The beginning and end... with no doubt and what if... So many doubts and hate his name... but to think of it... a worthless thinking can't stay long, but until now Jesus is the number 1 influential name in the whole wide world.

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            Richawriterposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Idiots are borne of themselves, that's where those beings come from.
            
            I'm not an idiot, not yet a buffoon, all I need is time, a moment that is mine, while I'm in between.
            
            No one can prove that God exists or whether the bible is based on truth or is allegorical, yet millions upon millions believe in it.
            
            No one can prove that aliens exist, have visited the planet or are among us, yet millions believe in this idea.
            
            No one can prove that humans evolved, yet they believe it--from books and such.
            
            No one can prove that we come back after death, or that we go on to heaven or hell, yet millions believe it.
            
            No one can prove that when we die, it's like switching off a T.V, ZAP, that's it, yet they believe it in droves.
            
            In my case, I'm open to ALL possibilities, even if they can't be proven because just like millions upon millions, I can't and don't want to, that life has no meaning, no purpose. Most people don't necessarily want to be given proof in order to have faith in something that gives their life this meaning we all seek, they only need to be convinced.
            
            I'm pulled in all directions because each of these possibilities fascinates me and I want to believe, as you all do, that we exist for a higher purpose.

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      oceansnsunsetsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      All things considered, it sure seems like he does.  Personally, I think and believe he does.

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      janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Logically, God shouldn't exist. I could say God could exist if he was created by something or someone else, and then could have created our universe. But then it's turtles all the way down. So it's easier to conclude that Got doesn't exist. That doesn't mean I don't believe in God, but if I do, it has to be for illogical reasons.

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      Claire Evansposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Definitely.

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   wildernessposted 10 years ago

   Ever read Heinlein?  I refer you to his "Stranger In A Strange Land".  Read, and you will grok the answer.

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      GA Andersonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      A good book that I have enjoyed re-reading several times, but I don't understand why you feel it is an authoritative answer to the OP.
      
      As an aside, are you familiar with the stories of "hippies" of the time viewing this book as the definitive book of life - as they saw it? It is said that Heinlein hated their accolades and adoration. It was just a book to him - not intended to be his treatise of life.
      
      ps. I think it was a hellava statement about modern humanity, even if he did not want acknowledge it as such.
      
      GA

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         wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         My understanding is that the book was written as a parody of religion - Heinlein was a strong atheist, I think.  Heinlein wrote several books that were a comment on society and life and none were intended to be a guide to follow.
         
         But I am god.  You are god.  The grasshopper and the blade of grass is god.  All that groks is god.  Thus the answer is plain; god exists.

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            Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Yep. What else can we surmise?

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               wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Not much.  If we're going to invent a god, it might as well be us!

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                  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, but I did not invent myself! I had NOTHING TO DO with my existence as FAR AS I REMEMBER!

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                     wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Your parents "invented" you.  I would have thought you understood that, along with the rest of the birds and bees story.

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                        Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        ,,,like they did anything but get drunk while watching Dizzy Gillespie in some Chicago club one October evening and then afterwards lie around in in my mom's apartment!
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizzy_Gillespie

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                           wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           I dunno - I suspect they did a little more than "lie around"!

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                              Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Oh yeah, they got out that manual, "How to Create a Human Being" and went to work. 

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                                 wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 Well, it IS a pretty neat book, and learning can be such fun!

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                                    Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    I think you are starting to make the point for me.

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   Disappearingheadposted 10 years ago

   Nothing would make me happier than the knowledge that a god existed. However I've never been presented with any evidence and I chose to live my life based upon evidence rather than feelings emotion subjective ideas or superstition.
   
   I did have an unshakeable belief for 25 years which was based upon party line interpretations of the bible, other people's opinions, hearsay, subjective feelings, hunches, and best of all fear of going to hell. My house was built entirely upon sand. Then one day I decided to do some digging. I dug in the sand for 4 years looking for a rock of evidence, historical or biblical, to see if what I believed had any substance. I didn't find any rock at all.
   
   In all those 25 years the god described by my fellow Christian believers never once came and said hi or otherwise made himself known to me in any tangible way. If you spent years talking to a friend who wouldn't engage in conversation with you wouldn't you get bored?
   
   Despite all the dire warnings that walking away from god would cause my life to implode or allow the devil to fubar my life, nothing actually changed. Except that now I feel free and my finances are in a much better state.
   
   So does the Christian god exist? No I don't think so, the image put forward is illogical, likewise the Jewish and Islamic image. However there might actually be a god somewhere that is none of the above. The trouble is he prefers to remain hidden requiring us to infer his existence based upon feelings and personal interpretations of our own little worlds.

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   thirdmilleniumposted 10 years ago

   (Without comment)
   
   Psalm 14:1  : The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

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      Jomine Joseposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      It is the wise who say there is god for he can pocket the money.

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         wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         

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         thirdmilleniumposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I agree for most part. But there are any number of selfless people who say there is God, I am sure you will agree.

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            wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            You're right - there are lots of people saying that the (Christian) god is real.  About half as many as are saying it isn't.

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               thirdmilleniumposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Firstly, God does not have religion. Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism are all false religions simply because they were ALL either created by the Adversary or had been taken over by him a long time ago. To be fair, it is almost impossible to follow Jesus' teaching and so though you call yourself a Christian, your being Christian is limited to your name: Albert, Xavier, George, Mary, Elizabeth etc. Millions of good, decent, considerate people live and die. They are good but not Christians. How could they be? Do they follow Christ's teaching 100%? Obviously not.

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                  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  As I said, most of the world will disagree with you.  Meaning that when you use "lots of people agree" as a point for Christianity (and it's god) the points actually go to the other side.
                  
                  Whether it's modern Christians or the disciples themselves the principle remains the same.

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                     thirdmilleniumposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     That is precisely my point. They may agree but they are not all Christians though "think" they are.

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                        wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        No - I speak of the large majority of humanity that does NOT think of themselves as Christian, that reject the Christian god as even existing.

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            Jomine Joseposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Selfless not wise and that makes your initial quote false.

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               thirdmilleniumposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               OK< selfless AND wise

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                  Jomine Joseposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Wise, selfless and religious is a contradiction. The wise know there is no god and hence pocket the money and the foolish atheists try to block their livelihood.

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                     thirdmilleniumposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Who is wise and how do you define wisdom in definitive terms? Stephan Hawking thinks there cannot be a God. Einstein wasn't sure either way. Bertrand Russel even wrote a book "Why I am not a Christian". Buddha did not believe in God. Gandhi or Martin Luther King were completely religious. I think the best bet is to leave every human being to own beliefs and let him deal with them himself.

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                        Jomine Joseposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Wise is the one who knows there is no god but say there is.

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                           thirdmilleniumposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           What you mean is that any wise-man has to be essentially a hypocrite

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                              Jomine Joseposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Conclusion from your definition, fool is somebody who say no, so if wise have to say yes, he should be a hypocrite.
                              What about Buddha? Hypocrite or fool?

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                                 thirdmilleniumposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 My surmise was from your argument

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                                    Jomine Joseposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    Mine from your initial premise.

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   word55posted 10 years ago

   If you, I or we exist then God exits as well. If God did not exist it would be impossible for us to exist. Many people ignore the existence of Him but God is so loving of His creation that He gives us numerous opportunities to realize that He is the one and true God.

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