A vibrant testimony of what the Indians in Canada suffered from the Anglo-Saxon Catholics. In the US, Australia, Canada it seems like the white Anglo-Saxons perpetrated ethnic cleansing with impunity. WrenchBiscuit, I dedicate you this document, as a testimony of the horrors Native Indians'suffering. Your opinion?
There are many horrors of our history in America , Canada , Australia , hell , everywhere .And , If the idea to begin with was for government to steal away the identity of a people by attrition ,then I believe they succeeded . Yet in the native regions of America the people's mission to reclaim an identity may be on the road to a successful recovery , I have passed though the native reservations a bit and I can see an attempt to do just this .
Tourism , for lack of a better venue , is being used to show how the native peoples journeys have so come so far ! Historical sights visited by non-natives are being used , as well they should be , to spread the word ,so to speak . I personally love these history lessons ! If the native peoples of any country were beaten down by this war of attrition - then they can and are reclaiming small victories by the same manner !
All that ANY of us ! Have to do now is reclaim the identities of our youth culture , in any of our races ! There is exactly where we are all losing our history . Letting our young people fall by the way of drugs , alcohol ,lack of spiritual connections to life , to family and any pride at all , especially from an attitude of general apathy in life !
I am amazed people are not protesting about the history and current issues regarding indigenous peoples: the media and general population are more concerned with trivialities. The hypocrisy in this situation is so abysmal that it reflects badly on the general standard of social priorities. It is also a harbinger of a deep spiritual malaise that will no doubt trigger awful karmic consequences.
Yes true except , you have to take into context the natives unwillingness and deep desire NOT to want to adapt their culture to ours . They don't want what America has . = Culture differences are too ideologically separate ,at least In my understanding .
I think the truth is worse than that. Here in Australia indigenous people were brutalized, poisoned, shot, herded onto missions, land disinherited, languages destroyed and also had families deliberately separated. Added to this was the attempt to totally eradicate all traces of indigenous culture. This has lasting effects on many many generations.
Of course it's "worse than that ", it's a travesty . Today's criticisms though aren't based using history to verify the cruelty of the time , BUT using hindsight . Consider being in the center of this issue but IN the past . It was a war , the native tribes were unfriendly to even there own people at times , but especially other tribes , ' and most anyone that came along . Was there a war against them from the beginning , Yes . Were they also in this war from the beginning , yes .
Native Americans , for good reason , were as if the" big bad wolf " were alive and living in the woods right near your house . Why ? because they were ! What Americans of today fail to do is to read the real history " of those times", Yes,, the same atrocities were carried out against them ,those that they used against others AND there own kind , and worse . Yet we need to keep real history in perspective .
What I said above is true still . Native Americans didn't then and don't want to assimilate , even today !
They are also sovereign nations within our own nation , in America that is , still want to tell them what to do according to our standards , or do you leave them be ?
Who would befriend people who steal their land, livelihood...?
If they don't want to live in an Anglo-Saxon culture it should be their right. There's nothing to envy us. They were free, we enslaved them in our so-called civilized society.
In the documentary, it is said that the children are still suffering. Didn't he refer to paedophilia? Doesn't it mean that in some way such institutions still exist? You know like foster care abuse children...
You have presented here a typical stereotype. I have studied anthropology and I can assure you that a civilization would not last a few generations under your simplistic description.
When Europeans invaded it was then a war setting. In wars terrible things happen.
Also I am not saying indigenous cultures were perfect. In any society there are good and bad. Certainly some ancient indigenous civilizations decayed and disintegrated just as many ancient European civilizations.
However in the particular scenario of this forum topic the barbarity of the invaders makes the Indians look positively saintly.
Answer to horseback's last comment.
Who are we to pretend to bring the best model of society? For proof, most western countries accept the killing of children and civilians to enrich their elite, they accept the killing of racial minorities by the so-called branch of society that is supposed to serve and protect, they vilify homosexuals, transgenders, democracy to their eyes is a reality, individualism reigns and so forth...
I understand why they don't want to assimilate.
Were talking old history of America here , of course indigenous people were persecuted . They were also a defeated society in time of wars ,and un- like many defeated societies , they were allowed to treaty . Lets ask ourselves this though , Are they working as hard as they could with what they are given to grow their culture into a successful society ? Many of them receive allowances as tribes , do they do the best they can with that ? Not unlike America's culture , they are also fighting to keep their cultural identity . Are they succeeding ?
And My answer is stereotypical ! My point is simply ,natives were as brutal and in the beginning a just as major a threat to the new world . Simply put -they were the defeated entity in this conflict . Here is a better question , Why are so many people better at and more comfortable being the victims ? Stop supporting victimization and start requiring accountability in the native populations ,in many cases they are and do , why can't you !
And who is at the origin of those atrocities, the British and its offspring.
I thought you said it was the Christians of the time?
If you don't follow, don't waste my time. If it was an attempt to ridicule me through a puerile joke, it didn't work.
Sorry. In the OP, you said: "A vibrant testimony of what the Indians in Canada suffered from the Anglo-Saxon Catholics. ". I thought Catholics were Christians, although I know that some claim otherwise. As a great deal of the damage was done in the name of "converting" that natives as well as the general attitude that because they weren't Christian they didn't count as real "people" it seemed more important that the origin of the invaders.
Why do they have to adapt? We were supposed to adapt, not them. It is their land. I would have preferred the rule and laws of the Natives versus the Anglo-Saxons that have a long history of exploitation and ethnic cleansing.
I suggest everyone read some ' real' history , In the early days of the New England colonies , the very real fear of killings, abductions , slaughtering of families was all very, very real . Why ?. Because it happened . Early Native American tribes warred against each others tribes AND sometimes against there own peoples . Cruelties of warfare were not exclusive to white men either , now that goes against political correctness when describing said wars against Native American , I know !. Some of the most inhuman atrocities of torture came from Native Americans too .
There is no one particular guilty party to the history of Anglo- Native relations , all parties were guilty of stealing , killing , rape , torture ...........Lets face it . In the history of wars all over this world there are the victors and there are the defeated societies , generally the defeated do what ? They most often assimilate into the victors cultures , Native tribes ., some of them , chose not to do that . AND In treaties , these very tribes were granted sovereign citizenship in there own nation , if they so chose ! Most tribes within the US. have there own ! So, in that sense there are many nations within this nation .
Does that make the United States wholly responsible for the people of these reservations ? Only by conditional treaty . Have we honored completely those treaties ? No. but that's another issue . But maybe another hundred or so gaming casino's will allow the Native Americans to be able to afford more economic success stories for their own people 's , you know , things like food ,better shelter , better educations , college's of and for their own teachings , As to economic , cultural , and political failures The blame is not all theirs , nor is it all ours !
Having lived on the Crow reservation in Montana while employed in the area, you recognize that the anger of native american people there go beyond being compensated for with 'money' The white man's system considers exchange of money as due compensation for what was taken. For the tribe something more fundamental was taken, a way of life. The Government offers mere trinkets relative to this. But we cannot return to a 19th century reality, thus the continued frustration of allNative indiginous people awaiting an answer to: "when do you give it back'?
As a matter of fact , we don't "give it back " , nor are we required to "give it back " , ask any nation defeated by an outside influence ! Does any victorious nation EVER give it back ? Morally , of course it was all a travesty . What war isn't ? But just what does a wandering , migrating , native culture that owned no land nor understands the ownership of land --- in their own words , ever demand they "get it back "? Just what is IT ,anyway ?
The problems associated with the loss of cultural identity is another story . Although , not many indigenous native cultures seem to have that under control either , welcome to America people ! Just what is it you want back ?
All the empires gave back the land they conquered besides England and its "commonwealth". To know that it was their land was enough for them. We had to accompany it with a title to make it official.
Not understanding a culture doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
It is interesting that you referred to the white man, it says it all. Given the history of the US, it is a well deserved appellation. They are not Americans but only distinguishable by their color, the white man. I like that.
Who writes history? The victors.
Had the invasion by the Anglo-Saxons happened now, there would be no difference with what is happening in Palestine.
Casinos are a pittance, are you joking?
Japan was defeated in world war two and immediately the allies made attempts to restore the Japanese economy and to rebuild the infrastructure and culture etc.
Japan was defeated by shameful nuclear bombing (as done in Yemen presently) just after Japan acknowledged its defeat. So let's not glorify allies that didn't deserve honors. IfJapan was rebuilt by the allies it wasn't for the Japanese benefit, was it?
I was responding to the "point" that alleged conquered peoples have to accept defeat etc(made by critics). The fact is that modern civilized conquerors assist the conquered peoples; they do not leave them in a permanent state of moral defeat.
At the time and given Japans violent colonialism , that which happened -Had to happen !
And they had not acknowledged defeat yet -to the rest of the world , only among some of their own leaders , The US was staring down the road of tens or hundreds of thousands of soldiers dying in a land invasion . The bomb HAD to happen , get your facts straight before making an apologists statement like that !' How about some brushing up on real history ?
You have not responded to any of my points.
Constant stereotyping could well be seen as bigotry.
I'm not sure what it is about those of you who feel some comfort in resorting to an apologist's reactionary stand in forums . Is it because you feel discomfort in being part of a larger population that demands some accountability in our countries historical content . Native American issues , the wars of the past , the history of slavery , the manifest destiny of the U.S. ,
Does being some part of todays reality actually bother your conscience so much as to adopt an apologist attitude to every issue of political correctness . Is it because you cannot change our checkered history and feel some geo- socio- guilt complex and feel to the need to apologize to everyone - just in forums ?
There are times when we have to just admit , - We today were not a part of these historical events , facts or fictions . And so , the comfort level of active apologist's OR adopted victimization attitudes serves only to keep old wounds open and festering . In other words we today, were not marauding cavalry soldiers , not violent slave owners , not colonial kings and not the victims of these either .
We all would do far, far more good by going to the voting booths - at better than less than a half of our voting population and making changes , real changes !
In reality , besides the usual dissection of any historical happening , Those who judge the acts of long ago history by the standards of our present day socio-maturity are merely finding fault for political reasoning ! Apologist's and victimization activists are always hard at work to find fault with our countries history .
Here's some advice for the O.P. , lets go ask the Native American or Native Canadian just what they want out of us now ! Seems like you'd get a more honest agenda for discussion . I say let's stop apologizing for ancient history !
And by the way , I have this theory that the Native North Americans should stop whining about the atrocities related to Columbus Day and start calling for giving back this country to the real indigenous native . Those who came over the land bridge from .....where Siberia ? Possibly the peoples from the south pacific or Hawaii or even the Mayans ? . Hey , just saying , let's go all the way , we don't want to make two wrongs instead of right , right ? Maybe we should give it all to Ward Churchill - let him divvy it up !
Shh. You're not supposed to ever mention that it was stolen in the first place.
As the story continues to the middle east. Don't want those browns around. Too bad they will win the earth in the end, when we mix all our skin colours together and become brown :-)
The only predominate white country USA has attack was Germany because they wanted to own the World, that's America's job. America has attacked 79 brown countries.
Indeed. What is also interesting is that Germany to the eyes of the Second World War alliance has still its statute of enemy, it implies that the US, France or England could attack her on a whim. I read it recently.
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