If GOD created life then he is responsible for SATAN

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  1. profile image0
    FootballNutposted 7 years ago

    No matter what way you look at it.

    If God created life, then Satan the devil was born through God's creation, this makes GOD responsible for Satan's existence. So blame GOD for all things bad, instead of just shouting hallelujah and praising him or her for typical life results.

    If God did create life, then all religious believers are leading themselves to hell, because satan is part of life (horrible things happen).

    So who is the boss of life, SATAN or GOD?

    Or could it be the devil (satan) is ACTING as God, that is the kind of thing a devil would do just to get people in hell so he can tickle their feet with a samurai sword..lol.

    So, to all GOD believers do you not think you could be being tricked by the DEVIL who GOD created if you believe GOD created life?

    For example, satan pretending to be nice to you to lead you to HELL?

    After all, Satan is horrible according to GOD believers, so you can't rule out that SATAN is pretending to be your GOD so he can take you away from this miracle place after death that you believe exists and tickle your feet, can you?

    What a fairy tale. Relgion is bull shite...it is a trade

    You learn religion in school/college etc, hang on don't they also teach builders, plumbers, electricians etc too in schools/colleges?

    Them things are all trades so why do we not think religion that is taught in the same place is not a trade too? Believers seem to call that faith, so why don't they say learning how to become a plumber or builder is a faith as well, it taught in the same place as religion? lol...

    More proof religion is a trade, ask the big companies that sell billions of dollars/pounds worth of products for kids to unwrap on the 25th December every year if they could survive in business if Jesus from a fairy tale book did not allow adults to create a lie to their own children about a fat man in a red suit who rides reindeers across the sky to celebrate his SO CALLED BIRTHDAY did not exist in our heads....

    Come on adults.....if we got told a fat man in a blue suit was riding chickens across the seas, we would think who ever is telling us that is on drugs....what is the difference? Yet we give companies our money, and in some cases get our self in debt in order to tell that lie to our kids......on the flip side if they ever lie to us we tell them off....hypocrites

    More proof that religion is a trade........religious organisations are the richest places in the world, via donations, or listed buildings, or through sales of religious products such as them dirty FAIRY TALE BOOKS they sell.....

    Then there is the Easter trade, which if memory serves me correctly is another religious event, .....the date for that seems to chop and change depending on how businesses feel....

    And just to take things that little bit further, I presume everyone remembers 9/11, that was an attack on WORLD TRADE not f..ing CHURCHES, so please answer this simple question how as an attack on WORLD TRADE (greed) all of a sudden become an attack on churches/religion.....it is lies, religion is just a made up story to mask greed domination of the world...

    I will shut up now.

    1. Readmikenow profile image93
      Readmikenowposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Wow, such a simple view of a very complex subject.  It's obvious you're not a Biblical scholar.  “If God created life...”  What life?  There is a difference.  Physical life in this world yes, spiritual life that people of faith believe happens when you leave this world.  I don't think the topic of Satan's cration is discussed in the Bible at any great lengths.  You do realize our physical bodies will be taken from us eventually....right?  “all religious believers”...humm that speaks volumes about your lack of knowledge of the subject.  You really need to do some studying.  You don't appear to understand what you're saying or asking. What do you believe happens when you pass away from this world?  We all eventually discover the truth about that reality.

      1. profile image0
        FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this


        What I am saying is let's undertake an experiment JUST for 1 year.

        Let's stop celebrating all religious days, lets stop buying products for religious occasions and let's stop buying religious products.

        We don't need all these things if faith existed, so let's conduct an experiment just for one year where religion is kept private to each believing individual as it should be anyway, it should be private to those that believe it should not be broadcasted, after all faith is a feeling, feelings can not be taught, however it seems faith is being taught, which means people are not naturally receiving the feelings of faith that they preach about.

        If we were to conduct this experiment, what do you think the result will be?

        The result would be that the RICH who make trillions through faith (who gain from all these product sales etc) would have to make something else up in order to get people buying products. This experiment will show what faith is really about.

        As for the physical and spiritual statements you have made, if we are being taught or preached to about spirits and what happens then that is a form of us being physically made to believe in spirits/have faith in spirits, a spirit can not be taught, and should not need to be taught, a spirit that brings faith with it is a feeling. You can't teach feelings so why are we taught about religions/faiths/spirits?

        So, studying religion goes against the purpose of what faith is, faith is a feeling not a school class subject.

        Spiritual figures are physical trades.

        1. Paul Wingert profile image61
          Paul Wingertposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Looks like Readmikenow tends to make things more complicated than it has to be. It's rather a recent idea that God (Yahweh aka EL) created anything. Before being adopted by the Hebrews from the Canaanites, he was simply a supreme ruler over the rest of the 32 deities. "Believe" and "faith" are just fancy words for "pretend". The Bible and Torah portrays God as an all-powerful  creator. After reading the stories in Genesis (a rip off from a much earlier Sumerian creation story called the Euridu Genesis) it points out that God is fully responsible for creating all things including all evil. He loses control over the human creations and grants them free will, even though later it says that  he has a plan for us - as if he's playing SIMM City. So yes, according to the Bible he is a psychopath responsible for all creations but apparently not very powerful since he gave up and granted free will and has no control over Satan or evil.

          1. Readmikenow profile image93
            Readmikenowposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            If you don't believe there is a spiritual world, the Torah, Talmud, Bible and other holy books will make no sense to you.  Why does having faith bother so many  people who don't have faith?  That always amazes me.  You say "faith" is a fancy word for pretend.  I guess a lot of scientific theories require "faith" the ideas are correct and are they also just for pretending?

            1. profile image0
              FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Here you go mate here is a fascinating post about what we are TAUGHT is creation of God's.

              http://hubpages.com/education/Forget-Gr … our-Toilet

            2. profile image0
              FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              It doesn't bother us that don't have faith that others do have faith. What does bother us is those that do have faith seem to think it is ok to PREACH to us in order to try and persuade us to join their God Gang.

              If we then say we don't believe in it, those that do believe in a spirit will not accept that, they resort to calling us Satan, or demented, or twisted and other such things.

              And unfortunately for people that don't have faith, PREACHING IS EVERYWHERE TRYING TO BRAINWASH US into faith for example:

              When I go to the shopping center to buy shoes, you can guarantee there will be someone stood in the street or center where it is extremely busy on a microphone blurting out the BIBLE OR THE LIKES OF...

              Or you can guarantee, you will see bumper stickers on vehicles preaching to the person in the vehicle behind them GOD LOVES YOU.

              Or you can guarantee when you watch TV you will see commercials saying God Loves You, or you see billboards of this kind when walking down the street

              You can guarantee that in school kids who know nothing different are being TAUGHT A SPIRIT, which is impossible to do, a spirit is a feeling apparently, not a let me feel your head with a story about this bloke that is meant to be great. You can not TEACH  a spirit into someone. But it seems this SPIRIT has to be TAUGHT into people. rather than everyone shutting up about it any letting the spirit be found naturally. This tells me they have to teach the existence of a spirit into people because finding it naturally is not possible, because it does not exist.

              You can not teach a spirit, you can only brainwash people with it....

              There are many many many other forms of PREACHING including receiving leaflets through my HOMES door saying God loves me, or RELIGIOUS PEOPLE seem to deem it okay to ACTUALLY knock on my door, yes come to my home and attempt to PREACH to me. To me they are just like double glazing salesman trying to get me in to the GREEDY GOD BUSINESS.

              If those that do believe kept their believes private, and all the mentioned above preaching was to stop the ones that do not believe would not be against those that have faith, but they shout so much in OUR FACES about it it puts us off of God even more, but then we get called names.....lovely people...

              1. Readmikenow profile image93
                Readmikenowposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                People without faith should try and learn to accept those who do have faith.  You need to remember the many contributions people of faith make to society.  When a disaster strikes, the atheist assistant group isn't there.  When homeless shelters need to be run, they aren't created and funded by atheist support groups.  I could go on but you do realize people of faith make a much larger contribution to society than atheists.

                1. profile image0
                  FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Are you for real mate? Faith is not a problem with me or many others, it is the ACTIONS of those that have faith that is, such as all the attempts of brainwashing listed above.

                  Homeless Shelters = Charities = The founders probably live in nice big house and own nice flash cars....don't worry about how homeless charities run, why not think a little bit different and ask yourself WHY ARE PEOPLE HOMELESS? If you can solve the problem of why people are homeless, the homeless shelters would not be needed which means the founders would not earn money. Now think a bit deeper, homeless shelters NEED homeless people in order for their organisations to continue running, so do you really think they're their to solve a problem that if they do solve would close their organisation down? It is the same as any charity, they claim they are there to find cures and solve problems, us the idiots donate to them but for years and years and years on end you will not get one of them charities that shut down because the issue that their charity was based on as been resolved.

                  And please don't BRAND me in a bracket that YOU the believers create such as Atheists, you guys create these groups, like you create satan and God, then what you do is drop people that you preach to in one of the categories that only those that believe think exist such as satan and god. You categorise people on the strength of their believe in the bible.....no one else does, you guys do.

                  1. Readmikenow profile image93
                    Readmikenowposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    Don't worry.  If a disaster strikes you or your community you can depend on people of faith coming to offer assistance.  It's what they believe is the right thing to do in such circumstances.

      2. profile image0
        ValKarasposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Let me put it a simple way to you believers. Who really cares what you choose to believe in? Why are you trying to make it everybody's business? Believe what you want, I won't call you "wrong", but why are you advertising your faith if it's not a business? What makes your faith worth exempting from taxes, while some decent poor devil working his butt off has to pay taxes.

        Look at a panorama of any major city in Europe, and tell me what's sticking out among all buildings. Churches and cathedrals. Again, have them, but don't call atheists "hypocrites" if your main idol Jesus was wearing a modest robe and sandals, while your leader in Vatican is wearing a pompous attire with a heavy golden cross, and living in one of the most luxurious structures on earth.

        Why is all this so hard to notice? Again, if you choose to believe, no one cam stop you, but don't impose it on everyone else. Why all these discussions about existence or nonexistence of god? Why is that everyone's business? I like making oil paintings, so how about I go from door to door and hand out a piece of paper advertising my hobby? I believe that ours is the supreme power over our lives  -  providing that we are willing to take this responsibility and wake up to our true potential, instead of acting like a sad bunch of brainwashed clowns. Now, how about I start preaching my belief to everyone? It's no one's duty to believe in my chosen crap that sounds true enough to me. It's my business.

        Likewise, what gives you right to push it to the others? Are you some chosen, superior beings who don't have to eat, sleep, and crap?

        Please, save us from your "spreading the word", we are not buying your products. Haven't you got the message so far? Believe what you want, who really cares.

        1. profile image0
          FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I am not pushing anything on anyone......I am saying I want to live my way but you lot stop me from doing that.....because you all greedy. People are saying swap with the Africans and work for your water and stuff....because they don't think and realise they work all week and work long hours just to get wages that they buy water and stuff with.....they consider themselves better off than africans who walk in the fresh air to survive lol....they think because they have more choice that they are free from poverty and better off than a poor african, are you for real we work stupid hours to feed ourselves, they walk stupid hours to feed our selves because they can't afford the choices we have...so let's put these two things together and LEARN FROM FACTUAL LIFE HAPPENINGS.

          If we give them pipes to the sea and put tubs,sinks,taps etc in their mud huts they will not have to walk to live they can live for free (without working/walking for water). Then if we give them choices they will be exactly the same as us, but everything for them will be free...

          The only reason they have to work for their food/water is because of greedy people, who put price tags on things that they can't afford.....it really is that simple....remove the f'ing price tag....then they can afford things like water pipes....

          And as for not eat sleeping and crapping....THINK....who says that if life was free these things would stop....are educated people really that stupid that they think that materials will not exist on earth if money don't?

          The materials are here, they will not vanish, I want them for free though to seek my happiness because I believe each and everyone is our own God and should make our pwn paths.....but no one does, they let their paths be lead and they are getting absolutely ripped off in doing so, more to the point you wait for the rules that will come out, and you wait until they have used us to get what they want by making us think we are achieving and having choices now, they can take that all away within two seconds, and they will once their plan is complete...

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I don't see you in Africa, donating your labor and materials to put in sink pipes for FREE, so that the residents can live free.  I don't even see you in the US using clean, disease-free water for FREE - you pay for every drop you get when you open the spigot in the sink. 

            How is it, then, that you think everything they get should be free while the rest of us pay for it with our labor?

            1. profile image0
              FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              I don't see you in Africa, donating your labor and materials to put in sink pipes for FREE, so that the residents can live free.  I don't even see you in the US using clean, disease-free water for FREE - you pay for every drop you get when you open the spigot in the sink. 

              Probably because we are not allowed to you have donate to conquer this problem.....and probably because pipes are not being purchased, that would be a good start from these donation companies wouldn't it to actually buy fucking pipes not mosquito nets and build schools to give them a fake education too...I am not going there free to build a school for them or to hand them a mosquito net....put the pipes there then i will work for them.....but no that is to easy and not profitable through donations

              The point is, I would be there doing that for free is people give needed things for free....what is happening not though is WE the idiots are INVESTING by donating.....so the people we invest to should be buying pipes out of that money and be paying for the labor......but they are clearly not doing that are they?

              Else the problem would have been solved years ago.

              How is it, then, that you think everything they get should be free while the rest of us pay for it with our labor?

              Because your fucking idiots that is how I think it.......your paying for things that are here.....and running around like headless chickens trying to get money to have the things that are here....how stupid.....but you doing it based on bribes....that being if you want it give us your money.....or if you don't pay us we will take anything we want that you own.....BRIBES....FOR THINGS THAT ARE HERE AND CAN BE HAD AS AND WHEN YOU WANT THEM - if we put things in place so all was accessible to everyone they can go to EACH factory and make what they want their self...wow if you want a car, go make it....how fun would educationg yourself in this manner be? GREAT FUN, if you want a pizza go to the pizza factory and make it.....education by being hands on not by being fed bullshit....that holds you back to only being able to do one or two types of job on a YOU MUST do it basis..

              As for transporting materials to each place USE THE ROBOTS LIKE ELECTRIC TRAINS INSTEAD OF US BEING THE ROBOTS

              America and England are all about a FREE WORLD yet everything you do costs money.....wtf? It stops you being FREE, for example if you want to go to a restaurant but have no money you can't go......if an african wanted to go out to a restaurant but have no money (their water pools) they can.....

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                "Because your fucking idiots that is how I think it..."

                All I can say to that is that someone is a "fucking idiot" if they think the world can run on charity.  If they think we can all go to a factory (with instinctive skills to operate the machinery) that sprung full grown from the ground with magical energy sources that no one builds or maintains and make whatever we want.

                You have a good day.  I wish you luck in finding someone else to pay for your life's wishes - it's getting more common all the time and you are in good company there.

    2. Credence2 profile image81
      Credence2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      To each his own regarding religion or the having the lack thereof.

      I cannot accept the fact that life and all the marvels around us are here by mere coincidence.

      My OPINION is that, yes, God created Satan. But all of his sentient creatures have free will to choose, like Adam and Eve. Satan chose the dark path and so did Adam and Eve.

      Yes, God could destroy Satan, anytime. Satan is allowed to continue to exist for now, basically so that all can see the difference and come to God on their own accord, using their free will to choose between good and evil.

      1. Link10103 profile image60
        Link10103posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Just because you can't accept it doesn't mean it negates the possibility that it happened.

        The more I see of the free will argument, the more amazed I am at how it continues to make sense to some.

        In your opinion, is choosing to with hold belief (the basis of atheism really) equivalent to choosing evil/Satan? The thread this forum post was inspired from has someone who views that if you don't follow their specific version of God, for whatever reason, you by default follow Satan.

        Just wondering how prevalent that viewpoint might be

        1. Credence2 profile image81
          Credence2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I don't negate it because I cannot prove in an objective way that it did not occur that way. But, if the same guy won every powerball, and every state lottery from its inception, I would have a hard time chalking that up to coincidence.

          Well, the very fact that you and I can communicate, when compared to the infinite alternative outcomes possible within the universe, is even more daunting. If I saw evidence of any lifeform beyond the Earth, I may reconsider those ideas.

          From a scriptural basis witholding belief is the equivalent of denying God and choosing Satan, as Satan does not care who or what you believe in as long as it is not God. That is my interpretation/viewpoint and I do not expect it to be cut in stone.  That is the requirement I impose upon myself, not impose on others as God gave each man the ability to choose the course he or she takes.

          It may be non-sequitor from a secular standpoint. Because there are so many versions of God and his requirements, I don't broad blanket on the topic. From my careful analysis of the situation, this is the conclusion that I have embraced. I never intend to speak for others and what they discover or not discover.

          The 'viewpoint' is quite prevalent among the Christian faith.

          1. profile image0
            FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Why have you chose the Christian version of God to believe in?

            This is what I mean, you believe in that version because that is what your part of the world PREACHERS to it's serpents.

            Have you read every other version then decided to believe in what your country preaches, or have you just gone with the flow and believed what has been preached to you according to your countries believes?

            You have been educated to believe in this version of God's existence, and as things stand the version you have been educated to believe in is only a fictional story that to be quite frank both you or I have absolutely no clue as to whose words you are following, but one thing I will say due to people following such words big companies are becoming richer and richer and so is religion as a general trade.

            How can this not put doubts of God's existence in your head, in the same manner Earth being here and the fact we as LIVING HUMANS are talking does make you doubt that God does exist?

            1. Credence2 profile image81
              Credence2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

              No, I use my common sense and look around me.

              I critically think, gather my own information. I do my own thinking, I cannot read every religious treatise out there.  Yes, I am taught some things but I have to get on board prior to my accepting them as truth. I don't have to be decieved by others to make your own judgements and come to a conclusion.

              Is the basis of your non-belief anymore rational? How do you know that the story is fictional? The people that abuse the 'message' for their own selfish gain are not part of the 'faith' and belief that I have. There are hucksters everywhere that does mean that they are representative of the message as I see it.

              There are no doubts of God's existence in my head anymore than there are doubts about his not existing in yours...

              How do you justify your position?

              1. profile image0
                FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                You look around you and use your common sense. The only thing your going to see around you though is that of which your country preaches.

                Common sense in this sense does not count for anything, you are not going to see anything else around you if most are shouting about a particular version of God around you.....

                Faith should not be an education, faith is a spirit, a spirit is a feeling....not a education - anything educational is a trade, so religion and faith is a trade.

                1. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  That is your opinion and you have a right to it, but that is all it is.

                  You seem to think that we all are brainwashed, honestly what makes you think that your intepretation is correct and beyond being challenged?

                  You make assumptions about me or other 'believers' that are not warranted. You presume a great deal about people and that your version of the theme of this topic is the only answer, yet you can't prove it.

                  Like I said in the beginning, to each his own.

                  So, unless you have compelling objective evidence to support your point, the best we can do is a draw...

                  1. profile image0
                    FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    The facts above that religion is an education, education is trades such as plumber builders etc

                    The facts that PEOPLE lie to their kids about Jesus's birthday in order to make big companies mega rich along with making themselves poorer

                    The facts that is someone says they don't believe in God, those that do call them names such as ignorant, satan,twisted, sick, and the likes, that to me is not what a God would do nor

                    Nor would a God bribe people, for example they would not say if you don't believe in me then your going to hell, that is bribery. which is in fact a criminal offence in christian countries.

                    I think that is enough proof that this book is fiction and out of fiction people become rich

                    The fact that faith is a feeling and it is being taught.preached to people tells me that people are brainwashed they are not allowed to experience this so called spirit naturally, they have to have it educated to them.

                    God is bribing people that is a crime.

    3. Oztinato profile image77
      Oztinatoposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Ah yes the "blame god paradox". It would be amusing if it wasn't so prevalent in common atheistic thought. How people get themselves so tangled up in illogical thought is a marvel.
      It's like a very long negative proof of God's existence provided by the same people who disclaim God's existence. As mixed up atheist leader Dawkins claims: it may be impossible for humans not to believe in God.
      So why is this such a prevalent faux pas? Perhaps enormous enthusiasm combined with very poor logic.
      So let's marvel: God exists but He's a baddy. Like Darth Vader?

      1. profile image0
        FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        God exists in believers heads, that is as far as his existence goes.

        1. Link10103 profile image60
          Link10103posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          In a nutshell Oz's view, provided it hasn't changed, is basically if you make any kind of argument against God's existence, regardless of how much sense it actually makes, your argument becomes invalid because someone who doesn't believe in God would never argue against the existence of something they don't think is real. Therefore you secretly believe.

          I think.

          1. profile image0
            FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I did not say I believe in his existence, I believe his existence is in believers heads so to them people he does exist, however the manner in which he exists to them people is via BEING TAUGHT OR PREACHED TO, if he truly existed no one would ever have to mention his name as it would be a private thing between God and each individual, individuals would not feel the need to try and RECRUIT others into their little gang of preachers. I believe he exists in believers heads, they actually believe he exists, because it is only in their heads and not factual they have to preach about him.

            If God was real in any other sense then he would not need to play chinese whispers in order to get his spirit listened to...a spirit is meant to be a feeling, not a let's shout our mouths off from the roof-tops and call people that don't believe in God's existence satan.... .Believers place others in biblical brackets in order of how deep people listen to their bull crap.

            After all it is only believers that believe then accuse everyone that don't as being a bad cop (satan), or suggest that non-believers are twisted, or suggested that non=believers are ignorant....they are creating issues in the world by trying to force their beliefs on people that choose not to believe, if they can't push it on someone they start with...awww your satan, your ignorant, you have demons bull crap......so believers are horrible for making issues when people CHOOSE to not listen to them.

            Another thing that makes me laugh is, if you have a conversation with a believer and tell them you don't believe they start treating you like your the only person on earth that has never heard of God, they start chucking all these bible verses at you. They won't accept that people know about God and choose not to believe in his fairy tale story, they try to force education about God down people's throats rather than just shutting up and accepting not everyone thinks like them.

        2. Oztinato profile image77
          Oztinatoposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          If you say this is what you belive then why keep blaming Him for stuff? Get it?

          1. profile image0
            FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I am not blaming him for stuff, I am asking you believers why you DO NOT blame him for the bad, yet you're quick enough to praise him when good things happen. Yet you say he is the creator but you only respect him for the good, the bad you pass the blame on to another BIBLICAL CHARACTER that only you believe exists, that being the devil......who if God is the creator is the creator of....

            These characters only exist in the heads of believers...so if you believe God is the creator you should be blaming him for bad things not just the good things.....but you don't WHY????

            1. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Any rational appraiser of what you're saying can clearly see that you are in fact "blaming God".
              The irrationality of this is quite discernable: "this is what believers should believe if they believe in God" (!) Thus you want to us to see it the atheist way but such an argument is predicated on first accepting that God exists. Hence it's non sequitur ie irrational.
              Got it yet?
              What you are trying to say is "why do bad things happen".
              Keep trying, eventually the penny will drop.

              1. profile image0
                FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                No I am not I am asking you a simple question based on what people that believe preach....

                It is a simple questions,

                Why do you say God is the creator, then say the devil exists, but can not accept that if God is the creator then he created the bad things/devil, yet you never moan at god for doing this?

                It seems what believers have done is created these TWO biblical characters, one they can blame good things on and one they can blame bad things on....yet the one they blame good things on they claim to be the creator, of which if this is true then the one they blame the good things on created this other biblical character that is designed to take fault for all things bad, so why do you not blame God for his creation of the devil/bad things?

                You guys can't answer your own contradictions

                And by the way I am not an atheists, this is just another group that believers have created to separate society based on fictional book views....I am just a being....stop putting people in religious brackets just so your fictional story rings true

                You guys create these things no one else, you're the ones separating me from you based on views not me.....this causes conflict so blame God for conflicts if you believe he exists

                If you see me as blaming things on God then your not reading things properly. On that note if you see me as blaming things on God and take offence for this, then why do you do the same thing by blaming things on the Devil (which is non-believers in your view).....seems like your happy pointing the finger at a section of people that YOU believers place in social religious brackets (no one else does) but get defensive when you wrongly think people are pointing the finger at your biblical character God, who you believe is the creator and if you truly believe that then he must have created the other biblical character the devil, of who has been created by believers to point the finger of blame at for anything bad, just so God looks pure.....it is a joke

                And no I am not saying WHY DO BAD THINGS HAPPEN, I am saying why do you lot not accept God who you believe is the creator is responsible for the bad things that happen, yet you shout about him and hold him responsible for the good things, your picking and choosing what the creator has created that is what your doing....

                1. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Wow you still don't get it. Your argument is tangled in total contradiction and irrationality. Why don't we see it your way? Because you've got everything upside down and back to front. We're not all stereotypes of backwoods right wing fundamentalists. Geez footballnut have a look at the way peaceful Buddhists view the world or tolerant Hindus etc.
                  Epic fail bro.

                  1. profile image0
                    FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    No mate, this is what happens YOU YOU YOU believe in biblical characters such as God and the Devil.

                    Those that do not believe in such biblical characters YOU YOU YOU drag into your book and drop in the devil's basket, then shout at us we have demons, we are twisted, we are upside down, or tell us we DON'T GET IT (as you have done above) etc etc....you treat us like we have never read about God and made our own decision as to if it is fiction or not....you treat us like we're stupid (as you have done above "you don't get it remark")....we are no different to YOU, we are HUMANS with THOUGHTS, your THOUGHTS are what you believe and mine are what I believe but believers always always try and force non-believers into their THOUGHTS with name calling and preaching verses of the bible, or by shouting at us we are wrong in our THOUGHTS (judging people) without having a TRUE CLUE if they're THOUGHTS are accurate, they judge their thoughts as being completely correct without knowing, their thoughts are deemed as FACT just because the book says so. Where my thoughts are FACTS that are actually happening right NOW and always will happen unless we change as HUMAN race. I will post my FACTUAL THOUGHTS below as to how I see religion in general (it is a trade).

                    DON'T EVEN TELL ME THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN,  (you have just done that in your comment, which is what you all do as individuals from your GROUP that YOU have created).

                    YOU YOU YOU are separating you and me JUDGING on what YOU YOU YOU believe, not what I believe.....so who is the one DRAGGING people into social separation?

                    KEEP THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN THESE TWO CHARACTERS OUT OF YOUR BUSINESS....leave us alone stop calling us things and preaching to us (as a collective group).

                    You have the right to believe in what you want no one is disputing that fact (as a collective group) but you do not have the right (as a collective group) to be horrible to others just because they do not want to be part of your group/book. And believers are horrible in many cases when they come across non-believers, they judge people, they call people all kinds of names!! SO BELIEVERS ARE CAUSING ALL THE HORRIBLE PROBLEMS......no ones else, if they left people alone it would probably bring PEACE to the world (as you mentioned peace)....I am not saying all believers are horrible as individuals, but your not seen as individuals your seen as a group DUE TO THE FACT BELIEVERS CREATE GROUPS AND DROP PEOPLE IN RELIGIOUS BRACKETS DEPENDING ON EACH INDIVIDUALS STRENGTH OF BELIEVE IN WHAT BELIEVERS PREACH TO PEOPLE......for example you guys drop me in the TWISTED/BACKWARDS devils basket, and drop yourselves in the heaven bound basket....YOU AS A COLLECTIVE GROUP ARE CAUSING ISSUES....THEN CLAIM YOUR ABOUT PEACE....If you was about peace you would never talk about that faith you have, you would not feel the need to shout about it as a group, it would be a lovely private thing between believers and God, but it is not, you guys drag absolutely everyone into your believe and place them in baskets of religious believes that YOU guys believe in which causes problems on small scales like this and on large scales like the middle-east.

                    You state I have contradicted myself, if you could please highlight anywhere where I have contradicted myself, I will be more than happy to explain what I mean, but I can't see no contradictions in anything I have said, so please point the contradictions out to me.


                    Murders and rape happen in all religious countries

                    Companies are becoming mega rich through product sales that Jesus's birth on the 25th December (which is a lie to kids) generates

                    Religious salesman act like double glazing salesman by knocking on people's DOORS in attempts to RECRUIT new people into their God business/get church donation from = make a sale like a double glazing salesman does.

                    Religious people stand in shopping centers blaring crap down a microphone, so all shoppers feel like they are at church when they go shopping, that is wrong....people have the choice if to go church or not, it should not be screamed at them when they go buy a new pair of shoes

                    Schools FEED poor kids who know no different THOUGHTS of the existence of a spirit

                    Easter another religious event, which the date of changes in accordance to what day companies feel like stocking their shop shelves.....so what exactly is this event about? Is it a made up event that can be on any day businesses want it to be on?

                    Charity organisations consist based on religious views, why do people set up charities in order to get donations and become rich in the name of a SPIRIT?

                    Religious publishes/groups are mega rich (money is the devil so why are bibles sold instead of being given away in order to spread the word of God? money is the devil so why are church leaders paid a WAGE to preach about God? that sounds like a trade, builders are paid to provide services so are church leaders that have to QUALIFY through schooling to become a church leader when what they preach is a spirit which can not be TAUGHT....a spirit is either there or it is not, it is not something anyone can sit in a class and be TAUGHT, so why do religious leaders etc have to be taught of this SPIRIT'S existence, a spirit is a feeling you can not teach such a thing.... hmmmmm.....but what you can do is learn about a book then preach it, this means either the spirit is NOT real or it can be MADE to feel real if one STUDIES hard enough and transforms their THOUGHTS, which is in fact a form of brainwashing one's self).

                    Religion is being used as an excuse for war, when the war started over an attack on WORLD TRADE/greed not Churches....see religion is being used to hide the antics of what the greed are doing, for example taking over NATIONAL banks in the middle-east/trying to build the middle east up to look like America, by eventually putting Donald Trumps hotels in every middle eastern town and putting mcdonald's and other american/british based businesses on middle eastern street corners.....the greed are using your faith to turn other religious believe areas into an expansion of their empires.....when IS blow these America converted areas up on their own land they are deemed at terrorists, when in fact all they are doing is getting rid of greed before they turn in to us/us being yes sir we will do what you say, and if we don't you can fine us by taking our money or you can take our belongings if we miss a bill payment (bribes to get more money off of us), the middle east don't want the greed so blow up areas of their own country that have been radicalised by America/britain.

                    And what you have just done is what every single believer does, you don't like what you're hearing so your start with the name calling......or make out those that do not say YES SIR to you has cocoons or demons or are backwards and don't get the God thing etc etc lol by doing this YOU as a believer are creating these SOCIAL RELIGIOUS GROUPS....Now you are being narrow minded by simply doing that....without realising what you believe in is just masking greed.....you have fallen for the devils trick....you have followed the path of what you believe to be a good one whilst the devil (greed) is taking advantage of you.....

                    Religious believers are so concentrated on trying to force non-believers into thinking their way they are not realising they are masking the shanaghans of what the QUITE DEVIL is doing.....believers should start concentrating on once the devil conquers and owns everything they will just become puppets to the rich/the devil.....

                    Now give me your facts without using these two things "quotes from the bible" or the "fact that earth is here and we are here communicating with each other"

      2. profile image0
        FootballNutposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Is there not also a blame "evil/satan" paradox when bad things happen?

        Believers "blame" god for good things but dont "blame" god for bad things. When the bad things happen the buck gets passed to satan. Good things god gets credited for, why not pass the buck to satan for good things not just the bad, or, why not blame god for the bad things not just the good?

        1. Castlepaloma profile image76
          Castlepalomaposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          God should save Satan, then all our worries are over, except for money.

          1. Live to Learn profile image60
            Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Since the term is simply a representation of all that is evil in the world, it seems humanity would beat that responsibility.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 5 years agoin reply to this

              Follow the biggest money source and you will find the largest source of our evil.

              1. Live to Learn profile image60
                Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                Great way to avoid personal responsibility.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                  Castlepalomaposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  My personal and business is interwoven together with nature. The aim to serve humanity and the natural environment.

                  Where the large Corperationism snytheic world that Divides and conquer everyone and thing. Is the most dangerous and irresponsible groups on the planet.

    4. Titen-Sxull profile image73
      Titen-Sxullposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      All powerful, created everything = responsible for everything.

      It's very simple. If in the beginning it was just God and the void than God willed everything into existence, including the beings that would rebel from him and create evil than God wanted evil to exist. Of course in the Biblical worldview evil is just disobedience from God's will and is a necessary consequences of the existence of beings with wills independent from God. So God would have created such beings knowing full well they would screw everything up, he would get angry and have to curse his creation and bring into existence cancer, black plague, earthquakes, asteroid strikes and painful childbirth, etc.

      God's anger post-Eden is, if you believe the Christian take on things, responsible for almost everything wrong with the world, because after the Fall God puts a curse on everything that was previously perfect.

      With great power comes great responsibility. With all power comes all responsibility. If Superman was aware of a rapist or a murderer going around metropolis and he could see and hear every horrible deed the man did but did not stop the man and instead let him go on his merry rampage of horrendous evil we would not call him a super hero anymore. And when people made the excuse, "he's waiting for the correct day of judgment to bring the man to justice" we would look at them, rightfully, like they were crazy for trying to justify allowing these evils to continue when superman has the power to stop them with ease.

      1. profile image0
        FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I love the fact your comparing a fictional called Superman with a faith that I believe to be just as true as Superman's existence.

  2. Kathryn L Hill profile image78
    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

    Some say God and the Devil are one,
    But they are opposite sides of a spectrum.
    One comes forth and plays the game ...
    One stays in place, always the same.
    So that cave is empty, that cave is old ...
    Your calls will not be heard, no matter how bold.
    But, when you make your calls to the light,
    The return is not echoes, but sight.
    God alone is good.
    The science of religion must be understood.
    God alone is all we see
    The Devil's end is misery.
    And it lures through desires and senses ...
    By playing with it's fire, we reap consequences.


    1. profile image0
      FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry I missed this poem, but I had to re-write it lol smile

      Some say God and the Devil are one,
      But they are BOTH in fact none,.
      One comes forth via HUMANS believing in a book ...
      The other gets the blame if a HUMAN murders or decides to be a crook.
      So that cave is empty, that cave is old ...
      Your calls will not be heard, so believers stop preaching the lies you have been told.
      But, when you make your calls to the light,
      The return is not echoes, but the realisation that book was infact bullshite.
      God alone is not there to be found.
      The science of religion is just a money spinner to earn the rich lots of pounds.
      God alone is what believers THINK they're going to see
      The Devil's only what GOD BELIEVERS have created to bring non-believers their voice of preach
      And it lures through desires and fraudulent organisations causing us expenses ...
      We are HUMANS, so stop believing in fictional characters and use your f***ing common senses.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image78
        Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        lol lol lol

        1. profile image0
          FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this


          Thank you for the appreciation lol.

  3. Kathryn L Hill profile image78
    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

    who is THEY?

    1. profile image0
      FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      The greedy people that is who.....it is down to you to find out who they are. Believers always go on about studying the book, they are the ones that should do some studying and they may realise what is hiding behind all their preaching....

      I am not going to quote names, but it is not the Government I refer to when I say "they". Think a bit deeper, HOW DO GOVERNMENTS GET IN NATIONAL DEBTS IF THEY APPARENTLY OWN THEIR NATIONAL BANKS.....I will leave you to ponder on that question and hopefully find out somethings yourself rather than me preach things to you.

      Once they have full control.......expect to live hell on earth.

      We get bribed enough as it is, if we don't do something they dictate to us to do, we will have to give our money to the rich in forms of fines, or they can take our belongings (that bribe happens now)...this happens with only 75% control of money that the greedy have, you wait until they have 100% control....

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image78
        Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        This conversation has slipped into politics!  h@ h@ h@!


        Obama Care is an example of …?

        1. profile image0
          FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Like I said it is not the Government. So it is not politics.

          People that make the Government get in National debt though, are the GODS.......the greedy people that you have probably never heard of because there names are not allowed to be printed in the magazines top 100 rich lists lol....they control everything......they can make you believe whatever they want you to believe. And they have, whilst going about their business quietly.

          That is what I am saying, there is no God, just clever people behind the scenes....

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image78
            Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Well, yes. Only our willingness to sleep prevents us from catching them as they run about night and day, day and night ... apparently oblivious to the suffering they will cause.

            Good to know. Thanks 
            (Gandhi said to believe a man)

            1. profile image0
              FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              What I meant by that national debt question was....

              For national debt to even exist.......it must mean someone behind the Governments are lending the Government's money.

              Yet national banks are made to sound like each country owns their national bank....they are called national banks or something similar in each country to disguise who really owns them.....but people don't think of things as simple as, well if it was a national bank how can the government be in debt?....it is impossible to lend money you don't have to yourself lol....if it was possible to do that then we would all lend ourselves money we don't have to our selves haha

              And if the government are in debt to these people that means these people can get the government to do whatever they want ie.....use force to gain yet more greed in places like the middle east, why the real rich people sit there laughing at the mayhem they are causing to gain yet more control

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image78
                Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                I really think this has become about politics and political science.
                I don't know which is more boring, religion or politics.

                1. profile image0
                  FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  That is what religion is.....a political creation that can be used to control people....in their mission to dominate the world.

                  You can't say religion is not political.....for example there is a political war going on right now between CHRISTIANS and MUSLIMS

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image78
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    No there isn't. You are wrong about that.

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image78
    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

    PS what should we call our game which involves concussions and a pointed ball which is hurled through space by being predominately thrown ?

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image78
      Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      How about Projectileball

      1. profile image0
        FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        haha....let's call it egg chasing lol, it is the same shape as an egg and they run around the field chasing it hehe..

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image78
          Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          It is not the same shape as an egg!

          1. profile image0
            FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            It is more egg shaped thn ball though lol....just stop calling it football, and start calling soccer football because that game is mainly played with the feet/foot and with a ball not hands and a oval hehe, I am only joking, I just find it extremely funny and one of life's unlogical mysteries smile

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image78
              Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              its shaped more like a nut. smile

              1. profile image0
                FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Yes that is a more accurate description lol, must be a connection FootballNut haha....so what can we call it.......hmmmmmm

                I think this is going down the rude track woman lol....or do you guys not call testicles nuts, is that just the British?

  5. Live to Learn profile image60
    Live to Learnposted 7 years ago

    Preach - definition
    to write or speak in an annoying way about the right way to behave

    Sounds to me as if you are preaching about as annoyingly as those who you are complaining about. I wish everyone would just stop preaching.

    1. profile image0
      FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I have a right to though when religious people enter MY PROPERTY and knock ON MY DOOR unsolicited in order to try and RECRUIT me into the money spinning God business.

      I also have the right to when I am dictated to by people regarding sending kids to school so they get TAUGHT of a existence of a spirit, if I don't force them into some kind of education so they can do this, I get bribed, here in Britain not giving a child an education that I am dictated to give them could lead to me getting fined, or have my belongings took off of me (which in some people's cases can be their own kids, they get put in care and parents get classed as being unfit parents)......how sick.....bribing that is all that is, do as your told or get punished.....SOUNDS LIKE THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE DOESN'T IT....BELIEVE IN GOD OR GET PUNISHED BY THE DEVIL.....???

      I also have the right to moan about going shopping to buy some shoes and PREACHERS are shouting down a microphone and BASICALLY turning the freedom of life (the outdoors) into a CHURCH.....Next time I go to the shopping center I am going to take a microphone and if I see a preacher of this fashion I am going to stand right next to him and just shout IGNORE HIM/HER as loud as I possibly can to drowned their voices out.

      Who would probably end up getting arrested by the christian run police force, or being asked to move away, me or a preacher?

      The answer is probably me, I would be the one looked upon as in the wrong, WHY?

      1. Live to Learn profile image60
        Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I don't know what the laws are in England, but I don't think you'd be arrested here for standing beside someone preaching in public and you interjecting 'ignore him' at every opportunity. Freedom of speech works both ways.

        You simply seem to be overly agitated over other people's religious leanings. I'm a Christian. I think most people think I'm an atheist. I've been purposely excluded from invitations to Bible studies (I wouldn't have gone anyway) because, I think, they don't like my views. I don't bring things up, but I do state my mind when others do. I'm pretty sure those door knocking people have been warned not to knock on my door. Again, I let them share their views but I share mine just as freely.

        Correct me if I'm wrong, but it has been my observation that most people who get overly agitated over other people's religious leanings won't share their own thoughts when they find themselves in a situation where they have to hear those of others.  They bite their tongue and then start complaining when those people are out of ear shot. I don't see how that is a solution.

        1. profile image0
          FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I would get arrested because I will tell you what will happen:

          That preacher will turn on me and start calling me names or shouting down the microphone see people that is the ignorant devil with demons right there (branding me) and what I will do is punch the twat in the face for slander.....then goody goody two shoes christian bloke will ring his friends down the cop shop and have me up for assault charges. lol....

          I wish believers would stop saying I am aggravated by it, I don't care who believes in what but what I do care about is the ACTIONS of believers.....they seem to deem it okay to preach to people, then if I for example say I don't believe in God or the Devil, what then happens that preacher won't accept that and leave me alone, that preacher will go on and on then probably eventually end up calling me twisted, ignorant to the lord, sick, the devils advocate and the likes.....believers are sick people....Preaching should not be allowed and nor should the TEACHING of a spirit, spirits can NOT be taught, they are either there or they are not.....and if people have to be TAUGHT of the existence of a SPIRIT it is unnatural.....it is brainwashing people into the THOUGHT of existence....it is in no way allowing those that do get brainwashed to NATURALLY experience this magical spirit, preachers should shut up and give people the chance to find the spirit in their own way, but they don't shut up and because those in the don't believe bracket try to get forced into faith by preachers it turns us even further away from believing in any faith, so if people like me are the devil then blame believing preachers for the existence of the devil smile

          1. Live to Learn profile image60
            Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I didn't mean to imply that you were aggravated with the fact that people believe. It is obvious you are aggravated by people's actions. It still seems a little over the top. If you have been in any situation similar to the one you described you are partly responsible since you obviously remained engaged in conversation.

            Walk away. That usually alleviates the problem. Then, forget about it. That alleviates the frustration.

            1. profile image0
              FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Oh okay sorry I misunderstood what you meant.

              The problem is mate, like I said PREACHING IS EVERYWHERE...

              The local shopping center,

              Leaflets posted through my door

              People from religious groups knocking on my door

              Advertising billboards (God Loves You)

              TV commercials (God Loves You)

              The Government praising the lord

              Schools teaching religious topics

              It is everywhere. It seems we are not allowed to experience this thing naturally, it has to be in our faces in order for us to believe in the THOUGHT of existence.

              And I agree with you, I do have the choice to walk away, however if I was to walk away from every preaching scenario, I would have to lock myself indoors, that is not right is it, and all I am asking of believers is for them to shut up and let people experience this thing naturally, I don't believe in it but in 10 years time or tomorrow something might happen that turns me to the lord and I experience something natural, if it does exist that is how I want to find it, but if I have to keep telling people before that something happens to shut up calling me what are horrible names really just because I have no faith (now) it is not going to make me want to turn to the spirit.....after all why would I want to turn to a lord where a group of people that believe in him/her call others horrible names just because they failed to RECRUIT them into their business.....if the lord is real let me find him and as a group stop trying to drum the THOUGHT into people......that is not much to ask is it?

              But it's not allowed to be found naturally in the manner described above, which makes me think it is not allowed to be because it doesn't exist, the only way to make it exist is to allow people a licence to go knocking on anyones door to drum the thought into their heads, or shout about it at places designed for shopping etc, the likely-hood is I personally will never turn to a faith, just based on the nastyness of SOME and A LOT of people from within such faiths. See believers cause the issues..or demons or devils that only believers believe exists..

              1. Live to Learn profile image60
                Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Although I do sympathize it is unrealistic and a little selfish to ask that everyone else shut up so that you can feel better about life. I hear a lot of things I don't agree with. If I let them all bother me I'd be very unhappy.

                Either way. I hope you find a solution you can live with.

                1. profile image0
                  FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  As for being at fault for being on the receiving end of abuse for engaging in conversation, I don't mind TALKING with people that talk about their experiences with their faith, christians,muslims,jews, whatever talking about experiences are good, but their is a difference between people's experiences and full blown in your face preachers, that if your view goes against theirs it no longer becomes a chat....they resort to nastyness.

                  And there is more that type of believer than what there is the believers you can sit and talk to about experiences......

                  I think you must believe, which means you don't see just how much preaching there is in places where there should not be, I don't pay my taxes to go to places that are not churches but are treated like churches...

                  Ignoring it is the only way, but there is too much of it lol

                2. profile image0
                  FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  It is unrealistic you are correct, but they could do everyone a favour and shut up ramming it down people's throats. Yes, talk about experiences but don't preach. Surely talking about experiences will teach non-believers more than reciting the bible to them and shouting horrible name to them.

                  Thanks mate,

  6. colorfulone profile image78
    colorfuloneposted 7 years ago

    FootballNutm, you actually sound like a nice person.  My door is my door, and I guard it from unwanted and uninvited guests.  Same with my phone, or my personal space wherever I am.  I enjoy having boundaries, so I will assert myself.  It doesn't matter so much what I say but more so how I say it...polite and gentle with a smile works well.   If, someone is a boundaries jumper (in your face), I assert myself again, and maybe not so polite if they want to persist.  Send them on their way with a "Have a nice day!" 

    There is a lot of good reading material about safe boundaries, or personal boundaries. 

    We all go through things that we don't like and feel uncomfortable with. Its a part of life.  But, we can use those as opportunities to grow...or learn how to establish boundaries that work, and feel good when we achieve our wanted goal.  (them to shut up in this case)  smile 

    I hope you find a solution so that you don't have this on going frustration.

    1. profile image0
      FootballNutposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Knock Knock lol.....hey, god and the devil ain't real, see you later lol.

      Could you imagine knocking on believers doors without them expecting you just as they are sitting down to eat their tea and saying that lol.....it is not right is it, however often it happens, once is to many times.

      Yes they should shut up preaching, talk about experiences instead of ramming verses of the bible down people's gobs.

  7. Bede le Venerable profile image97
    Bede le Venerableposted 5 years ago

    God created all the angels good and beautiful. Because they have free will, like human beings, many became demons through their own choice. Satan was the brightest angel but was enamored of his own beauty. God tested the angels and Satan “fell like lightning,” through his own choice, namely through pride. (c.f. Lk 10:18) 

    Evil is not God’s creation but the consequence of freedom.

    The devil’s malice toward God is such that he now tries to wreak havoc on earth; “Woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down upon you in great wrath, because he knows his time is short.” (Rev. 2:13)

  8. sparkster profile image86
    sparksterposted 5 years ago

    I've been thinking similar things to this recently.

    I do believe in God, Jesus and the angels and have experienced divine intervention myself when I was seriously ill but I also have come to the conclusion that Satan is the ruler of this world.

    I saw a post recently here on HubPages I believe, where someone claimed that in the bible Jesus says Satan is the ruler of this world three times.

    The problem I have is that God cannot be as omnipotent and omniscient as we are led to believe because if he was then he would have already known that Satan would turn against him and therefore wouldn't have created him in the first place.

    He would also be able to stop all the evil in the world but he doesn't. Also, his creations (creatures) whilst being beautiful in one respect are also evil in the fact that they naturally kill and eat each other - how Holy is that?

    It seems to me that God cannot be all Holy but must also be evil aswell (duality).

    I also fail to understand why Jesus would need to "overcome the world" if it is the world his Father (God) created.

    1. Credence2 profile image81
      Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting, but there is the concept of free will, as I understand it, God did not make automatons. Satan or Lucifer, jealous of Jehovah God's rightful place as creator of all things challenges God. Satan can be liquidated by God at any time he chooses and there is no question of that. But there is a larger question as to God's right to be over all things that cannot be resolved by simply destroying Satan from the standpoint of his intelligent creation.

      According to scripture, the human family has been tainted and subject to imperfection since the fall of Adam and Eve. Satan is in charge of the current world, as when Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness, Satan could not offer Jesus possession of that he did not own or control(the kingdoms of the world) But, I believe as the case with Job, Satan while influencing things, does not have the absolute power. While Satan was allowed to afflict Job with any number of maladies, God told Satan as part of the test of Job's loyalty that he could not kill Job, outright.

      Otherwise, Satan would have destroyed us all by now.

      We all sinful and fall short of perfection, and combine that with Satan's malevolent influence, is it any wonder that we do not try to kill one another, daily?

      Jehovah God is all good and perfect in his ways.... It is man that falls short.

    2. Bede le Venerable profile image97
      Bede le Venerableposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      “God is light, in him there is no darkness.” (1 Jn 1:5)

      If it were otherwise, Jesus wouldn’t have suffered such a painful death on the cross. He did so to destroy Satan’s kingdom in due course; consequently, if there were evil in God, he would self-destruct. “A house divided against itself cannot stand.”

      As it is, Satan separated himself from the light by a free choice and not by a pre-determined fate. St. Michael the archangel could have been the devil, but he chose to remain faithful along with the good angels.

      Moreover, the devil has only apparent control of this world. God is in control and permits Satan to continue for some purpose that he alone knows. St. Paul speaks of “the restrainer’s hand,” (2 Thes 2:6) that prevents the devil wreaking total havoc. He’s on a leash, as it were, but God will ultimately destroy him.

      From our limited view, we think God can’t possibly be in control given the many evils in the world. I think that God permits evils to occur for many reasons, such as in consequence of sin or as a wake-up call. God is merciful but he’s also just.

      I don’t have all the answers, particularly when innocent people suffer…why must it be so? Nobody can possibly understand it fully this side of eternity. The bottom line is that free will is both beautiful and scary.

  9. Live to Learn profile image60
    Live to Learnposted 5 years ago

    Reality is so much more infinitely expansive than we can currently detect. The possibility of multiple universes, our universe feeding an expansion, etc. God would be throughout. The idea of Satan can be understood no better than the idea of God, without much, much more information.

    Working within a multiple universe theory and assuming the existence of such a figure, an infinite number of possibilities emerge which fully explain the necessity of a good vs evil scenario which would give humanity the means by which to embrace some aspects of evil in order to better understand and grow, spiritually..so to speak. Ultimately, Satan is typical of Judas. A hard role to play, yet an invaluable one. Given to someone so committed to the necessity of the outcome that figure would wholeheartedly embrace the role.

    But, to glorify or attempt to mitigate the value of the lessons meant to be learned by his playing that role would be an unkindness done and indicative of a spirit either incapable, or disinterested in reflective growth.


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