In my Christian walk I have been asked on many occasion, "Is homosexuality an unforgiving sin?" I have often been hammered by liberal Believers that say that Christ loves us (In which I do not deny) however a sin is sin! God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve!
I am curious how my fellow religious hubbers would respond if they were asked this question?
Here's what kills me, though. You know, Sodom & Gomorrhah - they used to have a lot of gay people there. In fact, when God wanted to destroy the city, but didnt really want to right away, instead he sent angels to find some normal people there - you know, some good reason not to go thru with the plan. The angels came to the city, arrived at Lot's house. Lot, that is Abraham's nephew, right. Now here's the thing, I don't get - angels are right inside Lot's crib and all, and the men of Sodom come as a mob and start banging the hell out of Lot's door, and yelling their lungs out, all the while saying to Lot, bring out your visitors, that we may have sex with them! The men wanted to sleep with the angels! Sex with angels for pete's sake! Gawd, i don't get it. I really don't.
Very true, I have read the Bible and am often confused by its writings. Especially with Lot, who, before coming to Sodom and Gomorrah, had camped out in a cave with his daughters, stayed drunk for days and had sex with his own daughters. BUT this is the man God chose.
I don't know how anyone can say that anything is unforgivable after you've read the horrors of the Bible.
It was after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Megs, not before - after his wife was turned into a pillar of salt for looking back over her shoulder (nothing but fair and reasonable, The Lord Our God), and the daughters thought they were the only humans left and it was their duty to repopulate the world with the only available remaining male, so Lot is not entirely to blame for that little scenario - except of course that he traumatised them by handing them out the door to be gang-raped in the first place, and if he hadn't done that they probably wouldn't have embarked on their little repopulation plan.
Everyone knows that every sin is forgiveable, so that's hogwash! The only sin that isn't forgiveable according to the Bible is the sin against the Holy Spirit. It's like blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is rated in God's book above even murder. Its a mystery, for pete's sake!
That stuff killed me, too. But i guess he would rather be in good books with God than with the men of Sodom. He had a choice of two evils -- I guess he chose what he considered the lesser of the two. I dont pretend I get the workings of Lot's mind. Nay.
he didnt go thru with it anymore. I mean, hand his daughters over and all. The angels got fed up with the men, come out and blinded every single one of them. Then took Lot and all his family, and teleported out of the city! If that isn't cool, nothing is!
Why is it that people tend to have an issue with Gay and Lesbian people? I am in a heterosexual relationship however I have friends who are Gay and Lesbian. I believe God created all of us in his own image, as you know it is written. Judge and you to shall be judged. I do not care what others due in there own homes and I believe it is time that people start looking in there own back doors and stop being so homophobic.
Education is the only answer, and there is a strong movement - especially in the USA and some muslim countries - that god says homosexuality is a sin. If we could just persuade people to educate their children instead of indoctrinating them into their irrational beliefs we might start to move forwards.
I couldn't agree with you more when it comes to educating. Here is something interesting in the Bible eating crustaceans is an abomination, how many Christians eat Shrimp, Lobster and Crab? I eat them. It says slavery is right in your own tribe, but slavery is not permissible. I believe that many Christians use the Bible to there advantage and align there prejudices with the word of GOD. We are not loving one another we are fighting against each other.
I don't think homosexuality is a sin at all. I think gay people are born gay and they have no choice in what they are attracted to. I also think pedophiles are born attracted to children and they should be locked away forever if and when they act on their impulses. There is no "cure" for what turns a person on.
You have a right to believe any activity is a sin. You have the right to do all kinds of things within your church. Your church is your sanctuary and how things are done there should be up to you. When you speak to people of faith; you're question is a valid point for debate. There is enough reference the Bible to make it a good question. As long as other people has the freedom to live their lives the way they choose.
I believe God forgives all sins, but you must sin no more once you accept Jesus in your heart, and I know some people who were gay(my cousin) and once he accepted Christ he was able to resist the homosexual temptation and now he is a minister whose main focus are those who suffer with that particular sin. I wrote on this subject recently: http://hubpages.com/hub/Prop-8-win-The-Final-Warning
Homosexuality seems to have become a popular topic for the pulpit these days. Is that the only subject that gets a rise from failing attendance in church? Maybe I am wrong, but in my childhood days in church, the topics rose out of loving your fellow man, treat all with respect, help those who are in need, not verbally abuse, condemn, and spread outward hated on certain groups of people because they don't follow the rules of the herd.
There's been a lot of talk along the lines of "what people do in their bedrooms is no-one's business". But this is to miss the point entirely. The fear is that people will _practise in their bedrooms until they feel confident enough to perform their act in public places, like cafes, theatres, buses, trains and, eventually, even church pews. And this would never do, because it would bring about the end of the world. For it is written:
They that bonketh in the pew make the very angels spew! But, if it be man with man God will send the Taleban who will cleave them limb from limb. Isn't that benign of Him?
(Ponder Awhile, the uncut version. Discreet brown paper wrappings, $2.75, postage free)
The OP of this thread had no more interest in "learning" anything when this "question" was posted than my cat had when it started scratching in the sand. In fact, the metaphor is pretty much perfect in every possible other way too (except my cat is cute).
No, I think some actually think this way and won't be 'cured,' either. I can speculate as to the reasons why: deep connection to their religion or a certain social or cultural group, denial of their own 'urges,' perhaps, literal mindedness, neo-conservativism, fear of the unknown, unexamined lives and ideas.
Maybe all of the above.
And if you do express your opinion or beliefs, you absolutely are likely to be ignored or denigrated, yes, by certain types. Especially if you express your views well--then you are accused of using liberal 'thought control.'
It really is amazing how much milage people can get out of this. We're talking about intelligent humans beings who have done nothing wrong. Why do people feel such a need to comdemn someone for doing something that is perfectly within their rights to do. Aren't murder, rape, and terrorism, far more worth the church's attention. "Venegence is mine sayth the Lord." Isn't he telling his followers not to sweat it? Isn't he saying to his followers do not have to go after anyone and that he would take care of everyone on Judgement Day. Just leave people alone and try to act like this is a free country.
Yeah you are right.There are many things in this world which need serious attention like poverty in Africa and in South Asian countries,terrorism,economic recession,green house effects.Saving the humanity comes first or taking certain people's freedom out comes first...
There is much debate concerning the origins of homosexual tendencies in the human species. Some say we are born with our sexual preferences, others that it is a learned trait that can be unlearned.
I was born with strong heterosexual feelings which I act upon as often as possible; however, whenever I encounter an individual or group who espouses the idiotic, insane, opposite of all of Jesus's teachings viewpoint that homosexuality is either a disease or sin, I get these incredible urges to violate the offender rectally. (which of course I would never act on)
No. What you need to do is be very, very sorry. Then - maybe - you will be forgiven. But don't do it again. Or if you do - ask for forgiveness with a true heart. And then - maybe - if you are really, really sorry - you will be forgiven and can go back to abusing children. Like it says in the bible.
But whatever you do - do not think about rectal violation. This is a sin. And will never be forgiven. Except when the end comes. Oops. That sounded very wrong. I have sinned. I must seek forgiveness.
be careful there. That might count for a sin against the Spirit. And speaking of fear, you don't wanna mess with the Holy Spirit. I know you're an atheist and all, but you really dont. Trust me. I mean, Charlie Manson appears right in front me wielding cutlasses and all, I wouldn't whiff an atom of fear. Even friggin Jason Vorghees (never thought he was that scary, really) for pete's sake! But the Holy Ghost? That's a different story. I probably fear two people in the entire world! The other one is myself.
You need to understand the concept of fearing God. First, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom...it is holy fear, reverence. It moves you to holy realms. I don't mean shakiness, or trembling like a reed in the wind. Understand me first before you give me advice on my relationship with God.
Well, if you are going to have your own personal definition, in which "fear" doesn't actually mean "fear", but means "awe" instead, that is your right - and people will misunderstand you on a regular basis as a result.
You don't need to relinquish awe to get closer to God, just fear.
Loose translation - reading this as "awe" is much closer to the original intent.
Lots of later churches have abused this translation - played up the "fear" aspect big time, with fire and brimstone preaching and the like - they are doing Satan's work, though, not God's.
It is good that you understand the difference - just remember that the average reader is going to read "fear" as "scary", and if you want to be clear about the point you are making, you may be better off using "awe".
We humans are always translating ancient scriptures to suit us. Fear is fear, and awe is awe. However, I do not believe one should tremble. But God is a consuming fire. He must be loved and feared. For He loves as well as consumes. I hate it when people make out God to be all about love, love, love...He is JAH,the Terrible. (choir chants in background)
I had to go back to the first post and rethink what was actually being asked to discuss. Now, I find there was nothing to really discuss except how we personally felt about " a sin is a sin". The author of this post told us out right his feeling was "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve".
I feel deeply that religion should be a personal opinion and not one you press on others, and certainly, religion has no right in government issues of equality for minorities.
I dunno Pam, I just read that one and really I think while what you wrote was alright that video you have up is awful. I love Victor/ia just the way shim is and I do believe that Jesus love shim just the way shim is too and Shim did a very good job of stating shims case but the interviewer was over bearing and judgmental, harassing even so I give it up to Victor/ia for shims patients.
Sandra- It is such empathy that seems to be lacking with some of these folks. I love the way you say that "Jesus" loves everyone but it seems it is some of these fundamentalists who have a problem loving everyone. They tend to pick and choose what to follow and what not to follow. In any good ethical/moral guidelines it is emphasized that love/kindness should be the core of that particular religion but all these peripheral things seem to be getting more weightage. Sort of like looking at the trees and missing the forest. May there be more loving and kind people like you Sandra. Mahatma Gandhi once said "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are nothing like your Christ"
I have compassion for Victor, but I don't even condone my sins why would I anyone elses, you can love someone and hate their sins. I love my brother, but he is physically abusive to women I can't love that.
I'm not even sure why this is a topic. Everyone is only responsible for their own actions, and not those of others. If you believe it is an unforgivable sin (is there such a thing?), then certainly refrain from doing it. But why judge others and attempt to ridicule their beliefs and decisions?
I'm not gay, but I most certainly hope that what goes on in my bedroom has no bearing at all in the friendships and relationships I have. What does one have to do with the other?
It's only a big deal because people refuse to give up the role of "judge" which was never theirs to begin with.
Aw, thanks Misha and countrywomen. I took down my hubs because some of the comments my friends and I made Friday night got me in a bit of hot water on Saturday morning. Just waiting for things to die down a bit.
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