Evolutionism the greatest story ever told

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  1. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 9 years ago

    What a biased inaccurate tirade about all the same old arguments.

    You assessment of the latest find makes it sound like these people know nothing, and your assumptions are laughed at by scientists and lay people who know how empirical evidence is co related.
    You argue against evolution because it is incomplete, yet argue from an old book written by psychotic men as "evidence" of a god. lol

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You knew those guys? You've aged well!

      1. Randy Godwin profile image93
        Randy Godwinposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Just as well as the other posters did.  Those "guys" were no different than we are with the same flaws exhibited by us all.

  2. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    ernesthub,

    The "empirical evidence is co related" is a nice little phrase but could you do us a favor and be more specific?

    Also try to calm down just a bit and not be so threatened by the Bible that you and other posters brought into the thread.

    Also, while you're at it, in supplying those undeniable evidences that are "co related" and that prove evolutionary theory also give us some examples of where psychosis was displayed by those who recorded the Bible or even by those it is written about.

    Can you handle that? We're waiting.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, aren't believers the only people who feel threatened by the Bible?

    2. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Jim, if you have read the bible you would know how it is with god.
      As for going through the process of assembling the entire argument for evolution, that is ingenuous of you! Mind you both have been done exhaustively without leaving hubpages. go do it yourself. Evolution is multi sourced and subject to the scientific method.
      Religion is a whole bunch of indoctrinated people misreading the same book then jumping to outrageous conclusions. There is no further need to prove evolution, and religion will slip and slide around it for a few more years, then disappear from our lives like Zeus did, to become archetypal at best.

      1. Judah's Daughter profile image77
        Judah's Daughterposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        earnestshub, you said, "As for going through the process of assembling the entire argument {against} evolution, that is ingenuous of you! Mind you both have been done exhaustively without leaving hubpages. go do it yourself."  HubPages is all over the world!  I applaud them!!

      2. profile image0
        sneakorocksolidposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        I think Gods plan inclued evolution but if you want me to draw out christianity for you I can but no making fun of my pictures.
        Indoctrinated Christian? Have you ever heard me quote scripture or say you're going to hell? I think you're going to heaven. There are evangelicals that get over-dramatic, and some from every group can go overboard. I know the brother's at my church are very normal guys they raise families, hunt, fish and playball. You need something to do theres always activities. You'll have more problems doing your chores. We call that fellowship and thats what we come together for. How many is to many friends?

  3. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    yoshi97,

    I actually do believe in what might be called evolution to a degree and adaptation to an extent that was created into living things (I have hubs stating this going back many months). I don't however believe in the evolution of lower species to higher ones.

    I also believe in a very ancient earth but I also believe the creation of the earth Adam was given dominion over, was a "re-creation" that was literally done in 6 days (also have several hubs on this).

    Like you, when I see how incredible the planet and universe is, it is not difficult for me to believe that the intelligent designer speaks things into existence. How could anything be impossible or difficult for a supreme being that created all of this in the first place?

    I don't believe evolution as proposed in the theory was necessary for God.

    People, who believe in God, do not see everything the same or agree on everything such as the specifics we are addressing in this thread. Our common-thread so-to-speak is belief in God as creator and we also know, if we are of the Christian Faith that we agree on the important principles and basics but that no one has perfect knowledge or interpretation on many things (same is true of science). This fact doesn't change our Faith in Christ.

    I know people involved in this thread will be angered yet again by my specific mention of Faith in Jesus Christ however this is the direction the thread has taken. What the Bible refers to as blasphemy has also taken place and required a response.

    If those of you, who involved yourselves here, didn't want responses from Faith and Bible perspectives, you should not have launched the un-called-for, unnecessary insults you resorted-to. It's almost as if you can't resist and yet the faith of others cannot possibly present any harm to you.

  4. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    Believers in what Randy?

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      The novel called the Bible.

  5. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    Ahh, Randy - now we have a specific.

    I wouldn't refer to it as a novel but you're welcome to, just realize these type things will merit a response and all that's going to do is upset you even more, you poor mistreated boy.

    Now that you've pointed out the Bible, what is it you have observed believers in it responding in fear to?

    Keep in mind we've diverted this thread almost completely and HubPages may put a stop to it, so give it your best shot, so you can feel better. Have a party!

    I'll respond it it's not too far-fetched.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      The threat of going to hell.

  6. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    Hey Randy, I know your last post was not directed toward me specifically but you made a really good statement there, I kid you not!

    What you stated is exactly what believers in the Bible also recognize. It is about people like you and I who were also flawed and God's dealings with them as they lived life and made many mistakes and experienced many downfalls.

    This includes the prophets and apostles who actually penned the words.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      What proof do you have they were actually prophets or actually penned the words?  Do we have the original documents?

  7. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    Exactly the answer I knew you were going to give RE: What scares people about the Bible. I don't know about all Christians but I have absolute trust in God and do not fear punishment because I have relationship with him. As far as who will receive punishment, of whatever kind that might be, I can't say, that's up to the creator.

    Did you know that according to the Bible, hell was originally "prepared for the devil and his angels" (quote from Jesus)?

    I don't want to get into trouble with HubPages because this thread has already been hijacked as usual, so will not turn this into a Bible-dissertation but there's more to the story... a great deal more.

    These areas of Bible-beliefs are obviously offensive to you but there's nothing I can do about that. Take no heed to it and don't involve yourself in discussions about it and that might help. At the same time I welcome you if you actually discuss it with desire to understand those of us who believe... sincerely.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You see, here's the problem.  These areas of"Bible-beliefs," as you call them, are not offensive to me at all.  In fact, I would love for you to be right in all of your beliefs.  The world would be lots simpler for all of us.  It's just that I am a logical person.  You might say "God made me this way."  But if this is true, this means God made it harder for some souls to believe things which don't make sense to them. 

      But perhaps we were already slated for hell to begin with as someone has to go, right?  So thank your lord I am here, because there is a place for you with the others of your ilk.  No need to thank me, it is destined.

  8. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    Yes we have the original documents...the Bible and we've had complete copies found of most manuscripts (including the Dead Sea scrolls).

    Other manuscripts written at the time the books of the Bible were written, confirm the historical accuracy, as does archaeology.

    As for the spiritual aspects such as whether Jesus was actually the Son of God, that's for individual choice and I can't prove a spiritual aspect to you. I personally believe it with total conviction.

  9. yoshi97 profile image69
    yoshi97posted 9 years ago

    *steer* *steer* *steer*

    ... and so we are here to evolve and become something better, because that's what we were created to do ...

    *whoo*

    'The woo-woo is back on track again. smile

  10. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    Well-stated Randy, I don't think I would even want to improve on your last post. Just hold to your personal beliefs and non-beliefs and be happy with them.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I am indeed satisfied with my beliefs.  I also wish others to happy with theirs.  It is only "human" to wonder how others came to the conclusion they did about beliefs.  I think the majority of people believe as their parents do.  Bad luck for them, in some cases, I guess.

  11. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    That's about what I expected you to reply with.

    I have about 20 Hubs written on the proposed evolutionary theories.

    I have even more on Bible subjects, so I've done my homework on both.

    Your escape from not presenting even a couple of pieces of really solid evolution evidence was not impressive and proves exactly what you're trying to accuse me of. That would be the "accepting what you've been told" aspect because it was the direction you wanted to go with your beliefs to begin with.

    Only 39% of people in the U.S. believe in an evolutionary process as the explanation for life and its complexities, so your "few years" hope of seeing belief in creationism diminish might take a while longer. You're still in the minority as far as the general public goes and it's not because they're lacking intelligence. Having the "scientist" title does not make them the most intelligent people in the population. Most medical doctors also believe in God and that he is one people can pray-to and receive answers from.

    If you're happy with your beliefs, evidence or not, try to move forward and not worry about the fact some of us (most) don't hold to your beliefs.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Only the religious could think in such an illogical manner.
      One book, versus thousands of interrelated writing from thousands of sources. You cant see that?

      1. wyanjen profile image80
        wyanjenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        If you believe the one book that instructs you to ignore all other books, than no. You can't see that.

        1. Cagsil profile image80
          Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Yo!

          You two seem to be on the same page? From what I've been able to figure out.

          Neither believes in religion's explanation of life, but both do believe evolution brought Humankind into existence.

          Right or did I miss something?

      2. profile image0
        cosetteposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        so....Pam...

        did you miss Noah's "To-Do" list? big_smile

        supposedly, the trees used to craft the Ark were made of "gopher wood" or Mediterranean Cypress. here is a picture of one:

        http://i38.tinypic.com/anzhch.jpg

        hmm i don't know...were there enough of these to turn into lumber? what did he waterproof them with?

        i bet those T-rex's could bust right through those pretty easily.

        plus, if as you say, to account for the small size of the Ark vs. the sheer number of every species of animals on the planet today (many gigantic) only "two of each KIND" were taken, how did housecats, dogs and horses emerge many years later from tigers, wolves and zebras?

        evolution, maybe?

        if God wanted dinosaurs brought onto the Ark to preserve them, why aren't there any now?

        they had to hand-forge nails in Biblical times. making enough nails alone for a craft that size would have taken forever...so in between felling trees, forging nails and gathering resin to waterproof the Ark, Noah also had to find polar bears and penguins and whathaveyou, put them in some conveyance to bring them to the launch site, right?

        then he had to also make sure he had their native foods etc...

        sadly, the Bible doesn't hold up very well in modern times. it enjoyed a heyday during times before we knew about our world.

        1. spiderpam profile image77
          spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Before I re-answer all your questions let me remind you you still have not given me an example of ONE inconsistencies or inaccuracies in the bible?  Two Animals in the same kind breed and make speciation through the loss of genetic information, try putting  house cast or poodle in the jungle he has lost his survival skills through continued breeding and speciation. They wouldn’t have had sea animals on the ark. after the flood the oceans salt level shifted and the animals adapted. Where the animal are now they migrated there then adapted to the weather, even the most liberal of scientists would agree with that. Penguins and polar bears didn't always live where they do. As for your other “argument” they are simply straw men. And I think you smart enough to know that.
          They've found tools nails and hammers dating back to Noah’s flood so tools would be no problem.

          More.

          More.

          More.

          No that I’ve answered your questions twice, could you me answer me one.

          Why do you believe evolution to be true?
          Is it was you have always been taught?
          Do you view as a way to evade God?
          Did your teachers convince you with pictures?
          Did you read and research your textbook and weed out the fraudulent info?
          Did you know that there were lies in you textbook?
          If there is No God I do you tell right from wrong?

  12. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    Randy,

    It's also "human" to wonder why we're here and what the purpose and meaning of life is. I would actually be more concerned if people didn't ponder these obvious questions.
    Most people see more to life than being an evolved animal.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I suppose I am not one of the "most."  I feel great pride in having evolved into a member of our great human race.  Millions of years of survival by our ancestors deserves nothing less.  I do not care if we evolved from tiny fish-like creatures or were descended from the same common lineages as the monkeys.  The fact our particular DNA survives is a tribute to those long dead.  I do not need a proposed creator to be proud of survival.

  13. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    There you go Randy, see... you found a positive now go with that and be happy and don't worry if others beliefs don't match yours. I may defend mine when they're attacked but I DO NOT worry about the beliefs of others. If they're happy, more power to them.

    Just a mention: yes, fish would have had to be one of the propsed stages of evolution arriving at mankind. You have to go from a speck in a puddle, to bigger, more complex cells, then fish, amphibians, lizards, possible birds (from thier perspective), lemurs, tree dwellers of different types, many ape species and then several ape-man in-betweens.

    So far, the much less-aged fossils of ape-men have not and are not being found. There should be an astronomical number of them due to very subtle changes happening over billions of years. There should in fact be a varitable blanket of them with huge diversities of small changes. There should be ones that are 80% man and 20% ape etc..................

    When they do find them, I'll look at the theory very, very seriously. As it is however, it takes far more faith and lots of conjecture to believe in evolution VS direct creation, in my opinion.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image93
      Randy Godwinposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Early hominids existed in small groups  beginning in Africa while dinosaurs and, later on, mammals were everywhere.  That any early remains of man's ancestors exist at all is a miracle in itself.  To me this explains many things, but you had rather believe the words of ordinary superstitious men who knew nothing of science.

  14. Cagsil profile image80
    Cagsilposted 9 years ago

    The problem here is that the bible seems to be people's truth.

    Like it's a real thing, happening or happened. Which would say that makes the Bible and all other religious text history.

    How ever, as we all know, history is written by those in power and as they see fit.

    America's foundation proves that. Slave owners bonded together to start a country, known as America.

    Yet, America still has gotten over the equal rights issues, over the years. But, others new ones coming to light.

    But, my point here is HUMANKIND is Evolutionary PROOF. Your existence is Evolution.

    The Universe became.

    The Earth became what it is with help from the Moon. Which made evolutionary changes in Earth, where mankind came to be.

    Your life is eternal. But, not in the manner in which you think. But, because you're lead to believe something that is not true, you will die.

    You believe in GOD, you will die from a lie, buried by those with power and those who don't know the difference.

  15. Randy Godwin profile image93
    Randy Godwinposted 9 years ago

    I didn't mean to intimate that man co-existed with dinosaurs as the dinosaurs predated man by millions of years.  Just to "nip it in the bud."

    1. Cagsil profile image80
      Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      But, what the possibility remains?

      It is actually possible for Humankind to have existed? There is just no evidence, per se, in today's day and age, to prove yes or no.

      We really don't know? If Humankind was alive then? If Dinosaurs could live then, it would be possible for humans to have too.

      Just not many of them, could be seen, as surviving living, during that time.

      But, as we all know...anything is possible.

      Which is why people believe in GOD? Their need to believe in something more powerful than man, had to of created Earth and brought Humankind into existence.

      But, should you find that you're not meant to die.....would you be shocked or angry?

  16. yoshi97 profile image69
    yoshi97posted 9 years ago

    Okay, I had to fig a while for this. I found the documents that go over creationism vs. evolution, why Darwin has been wrong on things, and why - even if Darwin was a total idiot and got it all wrong - it wouldn't matter.

    Here's the 3 document I found:


    The Short Proof of Evolution
    http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/essays/courtenay1.htm


    Responses To Some Common Objections
    http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/essays/courtenay2.htm


    Creationism in the Scientific Curriculum
    http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/essays/creationism.htm


    Please note, at no time does the author of these articles state there is no God or that he had no hand in creation. The first document levels out ironclad proof for evolution, the second one refutes all of the strawman arguments, and the third one goes into the idealogy revolved around ID (intelligent design) and why that doesn't work real well.


    Again, these articles are offered by no means as a way to shake anyone's belief system. I read them all, and as a believer I wasn't one bit offended. But facts are facts ... there are three immutable laws which prove evolution and a disproving of any one of the three laws would destroy evolution as a theory for good.

    So, read document one, prepare your objections on paper, then read document two. Every objection I could consider was covered in document 2, as well as a few I had never considered. In each instance, the author shows that these objections in no way refute the three immutable laws of evolution.



    Quite simply they are:

    1. There is enormous variety in the plant and animal kingdoms. Some species of plants and animals have much more complex organic structures than other species.

    2. All living things must come from at least one living parent (i.e., life does not arise spontaneously out of non-life).

    3. The simplest forms of plant and animal life were on earth long before the more complex forms (as confirmed by the geological succession of fossils).


    Scientifically prove one of these wrong and you have successfully disproved evolution forever. However, fail to scientifically disprove any of them and you are forever stuck with evolution.

    And to disprove any of them you must do so in a scientific. These laws were created by scientific observations, so you will need documented scientific finds that refute one of these claims ... but only one, as all three must stand or the house of cards falls down.

    And for those who say all scientists are part of a cabal ... know that there are Christian archeologists as well who perform digs in Israel and other biblical cities. If anyone had the knowledge to disprove evolution it would be these archeologists.

    So, read at least the first and second article before preparing your rebuttal, because if you don't ... I'll read from the second document to prepare my own. smile

    1. Cagsil profile image80
      Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Well said!

    2. Moonchild60 profile image78
      Moonchild60posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Yoshi - I agree with you.  My husband is an intellectual/genius, Ph.D. in Philosophy.  His father was an intellectual/genius, he was a Mathematician, also had his Ph.D. and worked for Nasa.  When my husband was a boy he was sent to the Yeshiva.  The Rabbi taught him about creationism and my husband corrected him (he was 11).  The Rabbi argued with him and told him to shut up.  My husband told his father who took him out the very next day.  He said he had no faith in such stupid people being able to teach his son ANYTHING.  I find the most intelligent and educated people I know do not believe in creationism. (and since meeting my husband I have been exposed to plenty) - Is that a coincidence?

  17. yoshi97 profile image69
    yoshi97posted 9 years ago

    If you teach a child that a blue pencil is actually red then you can't fault him later for handing you the blue pencil when you ask him for the red one. The same goes for religion.

    Many people are told that there is no belief other than what they are taught and find themselves feeling attacked when a counter point is brought up.

    Interestingly enough, each church and religion has its own level of how much they are willing to intervene in the private lives of their members and those that intervene the most produce the people who are least likely to move away from doctrine, even if it is proven totally false.

    Again, I don't fault the human being - I fault the system that incorrectly gave that person beliefs and told them never to question anything they were taught.

    Let's face it ... if God didn't want us to question anything he would have given us brains the size of turnips, effectively making us into mindless servants. Surely our creator had something big in mind when he gave us the ability to think abstractly and to question everything around us.

    After all, we don't question things because the devil tell us to do it, we question everything because we have the capacity to do so ... smile

  18. yoshi97 profile image69
    yoshi97posted 9 years ago

    Interestingly enough, the documents I provided in my last post show how religion and evolution can go hand-in-hand. It even makes room for God to be the actual guidance to evolution. However, at no point does it create an out where evolution can be disproved. smile

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I found the information to be accurate and well written, thank you. smile

      1. yoshi97 profile image69
        yoshi97posted 9 years agoin reply to this

        You're very welcome Earnest. I knew you were looking for your own manifest so you could hold up a few pages too. I apologize for taking so long to find it, but I didn't want to hand you something that would get swiss-cheesed through in a matter of seconds.

        So, now you can read from the book of evolution, chapters 1-3, but you will need to figure out which verse is which before you go on quoting it. smile

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          There are plenty of fragile arguments on both sides. smile

  19. jacobkuttyta profile image25
    jacobkuttytaposted 9 years ago

    "Meaningless! Meaningless!"
           says the Teacher.
           "Utterly meaningless!
           Everything is meaningless."

    3 What does man gain from all his labor
           at which he toils under the sun?

    4 Generations come and generations go,
           but the earth remains forever.

    5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
           and hurries back to where it rises.

    6 The wind blows to the south
           and turns to the north;
           round and round it goes,
           ever returning on its course.

    7 All streams flow into the sea,
           yet the sea is never full.
           To the place the streams come from,
           there they return again.

    8 All things are wearisome,
           more than one can say.
           The eye never has enough of seeing,
           nor the ear its fill of hearing.

    9 What has been will be again,
           what has been done will be done again;
           there is nothing new under the sun.

    10 Is there anything of which one can say,
           "Look! This is something new"?
           It was here already, long ago;
           it was here before our time.

    11 There is no remembrance of men of old,
           and even those who are yet to come
           will not be remembered
           by those who follow.

    1. Cagsil profile image80
      Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Why did you post this in two different spots?

    2. getitrite profile image76
      getitriteposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Ahh!  Ecclesiastes.  The most sensible book in the bible.

  20. profile image0
    A Texanposted 9 years ago

    Randy, you an ernesthub got schooled, just thought I would tell you that.

  21. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    (If you don’t like long posts, you might want to skip this one.)

    This thread ended up having some positive turns and I realize I’m likely opening a new can of worms here but at the same time, this post might be of interest to some who have been following it. As I’ve stated in a number of Hubs I’ve published on creationism Vs evolutionary theory, I fully accepted evolution at one point in my life. Now people like ernesthub would interject at this point that my departure from belief in the theory of evolution was because religion entered in and swayed me away from it. Absolutely not the case (my faith beliefs came later)!

    Let me describe for you, following, what caused me to see not just two or three possible problems with the theory (as per yoshi97) at about age 19, nearly 27 years ago but insurmountable problems that cannot be made to jive in order to make the theory sensible. Why these common sense views which are EXTREMELY IMPORTANT are left behind in the dirt so-to-speak continues to mystify me because so-far there are no logical answers being offered that truly explain these problems with evolutionary theory.

    Follow me closely on this because I’m going over things not easily described.

    My first observation that really bothered me about the theory and that I began to hear other people express was the fact that all of the lower species the higher species are proposed to have evolved from are here, in real time. You can go to a zoo and stare your ape ancestor of many millions of years ago straight in the face. What evolutionary theory has done to solve this problem, is to say that this is because there was “common ancestry” for apes and mankind. That sounds almost logical from an evolution perspective until you think it through in regard not only to apes and man but also in regard to all of the other species which have both the lower and more advanced species living together in real time. You would have to apply the common ancestry explanation to every single proposed evolutionary advancement for each and every species, going back to single cells.

    Here is what makes this impossible to accept:
    Even if there was common ancestry, there should be an incredible diversity of “in-betweens” because man for example could not have been an ape and then suddenly the huge leap to mankind occurred, leaving huge numbers of subtle-changes out of the mix. What evolutionary theory does to solve this problem is to say that through “selectivity”, these in-betweens were dropped over time, so that we now only have the ape species and the man species from one of the branches and the other branch remained apes. Selectivity therefore dropped literally thousands of in-betweens. This would also be true of fish to amphibians, lizards to birds, birds to lemurs, lemurs to tree dweller mammals, tree-dweller mammals to apes and apes to mankind. You also have evolutionists stating as fact, things such as birds having been dinosaurs at one time and yes, some also state that humans have common-ancestry with dinosaurs. You also have them saying whales evolved from tiny deer-like mammals, so apparently deer and whales have common ancestry since both live together today, in real time but where are all of the absolutely huge numbers of in-between species in that case? Did selectivity also drop all of those, with exception of the beginning species and end-species?

    Even if selectivity dropped these combined astronomically huge numbers of subtle-change species, should there not be more fossils of them being found? Let me throw-in while I’m mentioning fossil proof of this, that the bird-lizard in-between fossil that was announced some years ago (Archaeopteryx) was among the forgeries and was constructed from five separate fossils that were glued together (exposed by many research groups including National Geographic). This was an attempt to divert attention away-from what should have been huge numbers of in-between fossil stages found, such as the stages that would occur long before a lizard would have wings such as ones with 70% scales and 30% feathers etc…………………. << apply this also to all other species that have a beginning (pre-species) and end-species living at the same time today.

    I’ll also add that coincidentally, the fossils being found that are proposed to be links between apes or lemurs and mankind, are always those that some evolutionist-scientists argue to be “fully-ape” (ie Australopithecus "Lucy"), or fully “lemur”. The in-betweens that are much closer to being human are not being found. This would be for example the 70% human, 30% ape varieties and I could mention literally thousands of other percentage-difference-species because evolution is proposed to take millions of years for even moderately-significant changes to have occurred.

    Where are the astronomically huge numbers of subtle-change fossils from all of these combined species? I hope it has been understood that even an amphibian to a lizard for example is a huge leap with there has been the proposed 4.5 to 6.0 billion years of evolution having taken place. We should be up to our eyeballs in evidence for 10s of 1000s of selectively dropped species.

    I’ll only touch on this aspect; but why also does selectivity, fueled by evolutionary process, know to drop all of those that were between the two spectrums of each completed species? In other words why were, the end-species and the beginning-species the only two in each case, considered strong enough to be continued? That’s extremely convenient for the theory but difficult to believe it occurred with each species, especially when the fossil-evidence is not being found. Some would claim “but it has been found!” but evolutionist scientists even state that at least 93% of the fossil record remains undiscovered. Those “stages” of fossils that have been cataloged are in most cases scant fragments (single teeth, jaw-fragments) and some are later discovered to be reconstructed to purposely appear as distinct species and yet they remain in the catalogued fossil record despite this!

    I’ve done my best to express the problems many of us see with evolutionary theory and I felt it was necessary because evolutionists who attack non-acceptors of evolution often state that our non-acceptance is based solely on some religious reason. It just simply is not the case. If I did see evolution as being true, I would still however recognize an intelligent designer because species don’t evolve with proper atmosphere and food chain sources simply by chance or due to a sequence of huge numbers of accidental happenings. This includes the proposed “big-bang” that resulted in all the diversities and complexities of life. Call it a “guided” big-bang and I might come closer to agreeing with it.

    Quote from Charles Darwin: "Why, if species have descended from other species by fine graduation, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion, instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?"

    Some say this question was answered for Darwin before he died but that's absolutely not the case.

    I better stop here but appreciate the opportunity.

    1. wyanjen profile image80
      wyanjenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      (I did read your whole post, just edited it in my response here for brevity's sake)

      An in-between that is much closer to being human was just announced last week.

      Not all animals have left fossils behind. Not all environments are capable of creating fossils.
      We have uncovered merely a fraction of what there is to be found. More is being discovered all the time.

      There have been thousands of extinctions of the "in-between" species. This is the essence of natural selection. Ability to survive is what drives evolutionary changes, therefore inability to survive is a major component of itself.

      Ultasound images show that a dolphin embryo grows legs on day 24. After two weeks, the leg-buds then disappear and the dolphin is born legless. If we did not have ultrasound technology, we would not be able to prove that fact.

      We still don't know even how much we don't know- technology will develop in ways that you and I cannot imagine. If science and discovery were at an end point right now, many of your thoughts here would be valid.

      Peace
      Jen

      1. Cagsil profile image80
        Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Hey Jen,

        I heard that too....about the fossil they found recently, was the closest so far to be discovered, to humankind evolving.

        Again, some people won't want to believe it, because they can ever imagining themselves from animals.

        What they do not realize is that THEY themselves didn't. Early humans did. Some people just cannot wrap their mind around, but prefer to take up the study of religion, which is a hoax.

        1. wyanjen profile image80
          wyanjenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Hi Cagsil
          I think the problem comes from having no patience, which to me is completely understandable.

          I mean: we want to know the answers NOW. We expect the final answer! So turning to religion to find meaning may be a way for people to quiet down all that noise that comes from your brain demanding to know why.

          That religion takes advantage of this quality in people is a very big problem for me.

          Here is a link to CNN's story about Ardi, the newest fossil, if you are interested

          http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/10 … index.html

          smile
          Jen

          1. Cagsil profile image80
            Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks for the link.

            I'm presently going back of my research of 20+ years, which was based on America's History, Religion, Humankind, Currency, World History and Banking(how and when it began), and I want to convey my research.

            How ever, how I present it is important and I want to make sure that it's easy to understand.

            So, it's going to take a little bit.

  22. Cagsil profile image80
    Cagsilposted 9 years ago

    In today's day and age, Humankind's arrogance and igorance, won't allow them access to the truth.

    Individual man and woman, find it easier to believe in "GOD" as a real substance, over how we actually evolved.

    Why? Because, In humankind's arrogance refuses to believe that in the beginning of humans earliest being....we came from animals, just like every other life form on the planet.

    We manage to find our consciousness, which allowed us to think for ourselves, and not be guided by any external source.

    We surpassed Nature's guidance and that's what the "church" is afraid of....is you realize the truth, all will be lost for them.

  23. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    I've read endless articles on the "Ardi" find and some argue (including evolutionists) that the fossil is fully ape and not a hominid at all. Your CNN type articles will simply echo the mainstream thought like most out there do.

    Did you also know that the Adri fossil revealed that "apes, in many ways, evolved from humans, and not the other way round", according to Dr C. Owen Lovejoy, the evolutionist-scientist who also "reconstructed" and "interpreted" the Ardi fossil?

    I mean no offense to you who posted following my long post but you again pointed your attention toward religion and that's obviously where the problem lies with you. I tried to point out that religious and non-religious views aside, the theory of evolution presents to us absolutely huge numbers of in-between species. You centered up on one questionable fossil - Ardi and it's as if all of the other points in my post were ingnored.

    There is the accusation that I'm selective in what I'm lookimg at in regard to evolutionary theory but when I look at your responses, it proves just the opposite. You wholeheartedly accept evolution even when you cannot answer as to why the ape-man species that are much closer to what mankind is proposed to have arrived-at from those ARE NOT BEING FOUND.

    Not only are those fossils not being found because they do not exist but the ones that are in-between the other proposed beginning and end-species are also not being found. Am I not making that statement clear enough?

    If it is clear, would someone like to address that problem specifically and maybe try to do so without diverting your reply toward your hatred of religion and belief in God?

    Any takers? I'll read with interest if you'll do this, I assure you! Not only I but others will as well.

    QUESTION PUT SIMPLY: "Where are the transitional species fossils that indisputably show an ape-man species?"

    Let me repeat again that Ardi is one that is millions of years older than those that would reveal apes, closer to what man became. I feel like I'm repeating but I honestly believe there's a misunderstanding of what I'm trying to get across.

    I'll put it this way: If the question can be answered you will have people who are undecided, flocking toward evolutionary theory.

    QUOTE IN REGARD TO ARDI FOSSILS: "They undoubtedly will shape debates about human origins for years to come, as scholars argue whether these creatures should be counted among our most ancient direct ancestors or cataloged as an intriguing dead-end." (Paleoanthropologist Tim White at the University of California)

    Let's say there was an 80% human, 20% ape only 1-million years ago (actually there had to be one - Re: evolution), why are they not finding those? Why would the least-aged fossils be the most elusive ones to discover (especially ones less than 1-million years old)?

    That's about as clear as I can ask it. Repeating the question endlessly will not help but getting one solitary indisputable answer would do tremendous good for evolutionary theory.

    1. spiderpam profile image77
      spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Nice to you here Jim. smile

    2. wyanjen profile image80
      wyanjenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      ummm...
      Go ahead and do a cut/paste for me from my answer to you where I exactly mentioned religion.   (I specifically did not mention religion to you because the issues in your post were scientific-leaning and I respected that.)
      Also, since this is my first post ever on the subject of evolution, how can you say to me that I "again" pointed my attention toward religion?

      I used the Ardi fossil and the dolphin embryo as quick examples to you in a short post. I didn't center on either.

      I answered your QUESTION PUT SIMPLY in my post before you yelled it back at me in your reply.
      It is my belief that they have not been found yet and due to environmental conditions, the fossils may not even exist.

      If you truly mean no offense to me, don't then continue on to tell me what my obvious problem is.

      It's clear that while you write long, you read short. In the future I'm going to go on ahead and take your advice when you say I might want to skip your post.

      1. Cagsil profile image80
        Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        LOL!

  24. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    cosette,

    Post again, leaving out your attacks toward religion, the Bible, God etc... and try to answer the direct questions in regard to evolution and I'm willing to bet your post will be taken more seriously.

    At least give it a try. I for one would like to see what you have in mind regarding the questions I posed. If you don't, you will contribute to those reading about it, to see the theory as far more of a fairly tale than anything in the Bible could ever attempt to be.

    Also, you're probably not aware that there are ancient writings from many different cultures worldwide, many having never communicated at the time of these writings, that all describe a catastrophic world-flood. I replied to that aspect because you brought it up. Noah also treated the wood with "pitch", a black tar type substance and there was more than one variety of gopher wood.

    If you would, try to post those type things on a thread of that subject and do attempt to help evolution in this one by addressing the less-aged "missing links" not being found. Would you do that for us?

    One more thing: dinosaurs are from a pre-adamic period of which I have a number of Hubs addressing. They are extinct and were extinct at the time of Noah and were not dropped by selectivity.

    (Nice to see you too spiderpam!)

    1. profile image0
      cosetteposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      are you a new moderator?

      i had no idea...

  25. olivertwisted profile image60
    olivertwistedposted 9 years ago

    It takes more faith to believe the idiotic THEORY of evolution than it does to believe in the FACT of intelligent design.

    1. Evolution Guy profile image59
      Evolution Guyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Laaawdy Dee Praise JEEBUS!!!!!!!!

      PRAISE BE TO DE LAWD - WE DUN AKS SOME KWESTIONS O DE EBOLIUSHUNISTS HERE !!!

      NO EVOLUSHUN HERE !!

      PRAISE BE

      LET THE FAKTS SHINE!!

      AMEN!!!!!

      lol lol lol lol

      And you are all comfortable using a computer? Odd that.......

      Really, really sorry your beliefs have been proven to be garbage. But - what can you do? Facts are facts.

      Real facts anyway - as opposed to "bible facts" wink

      1. olivertwisted profile image60
        olivertwistedposted 9 years agoin reply to this
        1. olivertwisted profile image60
          olivertwistedposted 9 years agoin reply to this
    2. Cagsil profile image80
      Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Hey olivertwisted?

      "It takes more faith to believe in the idiotic THEORY of evolution than it does to believe in the FACT of intelligent design."

      So, let me ask you.

      Who do you answer to?
      Who controls your life?
      Why do you live?

      And, FACT of intelligent design? To think Humankind and it's existence is controlled by a higher authority isn't FACT and never has been.

      Intelligent design was made up, to support religious/spiritual doctrines, which are false.

      Therefore, you belief is based on a lie.

    3. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      lol lol Intelligent design goes hand in hand with  the theory of evolution, which you say it's idiotic.
      Intelligent design implies evolution,

      1. olivertwisted profile image60
        olivertwistedposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        WRONG!!

        1. tantrum profile image60
          tantrumposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          REALLY ? Say why

          1. olivertwisted profile image60
            olivertwistedposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            It's all very well documented by "tryth hurts" above. There isn't anything there that can be logically refuted. I've tried this conversation with others who believe such tripe, and it only devolves into name-calling, and mockery...very much like your associate's mocking of my faith above. It's people like that that prove the ignorance of some who know nothing of what they believe in and yet argue it so vehemently. So in light of such ignorance, anything I say will be mocked childishly instead of intelligently debated, therefore I'll go elsewhere for such debate.

            1. tantrum profile image60
              tantrumposted 9 years agoin reply to this

              Why don't you try to be an adult ?they are not my associates. Do you know me ?

  26. profile image0
    JimLowposted 9 years ago

    wyanjen,

    I probably shouldn't have included you (didn't by name) in the posting that diverted toward religion but that is what happened in some of the replies, so I should have cited the posts specifically.
    Also: the question was in regard to the ape-man fossils of earlier age not being found but could also have been addressed from others species points-of-view. You're right your reply was a snippet and I didn't catch it earlier. I already stated that the Ardi fossil was arguably ape and not a common ancestor as stated by some evolutionists. The dolphin-embryo I'm afraid isn't what I hoped for.  No-offense.

    cosette,
    We're all moderators here, didn't you realize that? When it's a member-to-member forum, we all have to try to keep threads within HubPages policy. Since you didn't know you had the ability to do that, let me make it official for you.

    I hereby dub thee a moderator!

    This thread is pretty much dead so I must move on. Have a party and post a few more attacks if you like but keep in mind cosette may moderate you if you do! (ending post for me)

    1. profile image0
      cosetteposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      no i'll leave that up to you....you seem to be a person who enjoys playing Hubpages policeman. have fun! big_smile

    2. Evolution Guy profile image59
      Evolution Guyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      CYA Jim smile

      What about those proofs for the creator you were talking about? Care to share?

      Any time........

      1. profile image0
        cosetteposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        haha

        gosh he was a big bag of fun wasn't he? smile

        1. Cagsil profile image80
          Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          It was interesting to say the least.smile

        2. Evolution Guy profile image59
          Evolution Guyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Oh yes - they usually are. Any thing that goes against the bible is an "attack" but anything that questions proven scientific knowledge is a "genuine question regarding proof" lol

          1. spiderpam profile image77
            spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            lol

        3. wyanjen profile image80
          wyanjenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Rave and spout, ignore direct answers to direct questions, then say the thread is dead and leave.
          That's not productive forum behavior.
          Are you going to put up with this, Moderator Cosette? roll

          Has anyone else noticed that people who say they are going away never seem to stay gone? 'Cuz you just know that guy is coming back...

          1. Cagsil profile image80
            Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah, he will be back, because he seems like the type of person who is entrenched in believing what isn't true. He loves to write a lot when he posts(me too, sometimes).

          2. profile image0
            cosetteposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            well he was hostile and i don't engage hostile people...i just ignore them.


            now, Pam to answer your questions...

            i won't get into a long-a$$ debate with you simply because i am not a scientist and don't have the time to search for and post proof for you and then debate this, etc. etc.

            i will try to asnwer you here though:

            Why do you believe evolution to be true?Is it was you have always been taught?

            I was brought up with two teachings, actually. I received an education in public schools and Catholic schools and was taught creation and evolution. Evolution made more sense to me.

            Do you view as a way to evade God?

            omgsh....why would anyone want to "evade God"? all i ever wanted was to be close to God.

            Did your teachers convince you with pictures?
            Did you read and research your textbook and weed out the fraudulent info?

            haha...if you knew me at all you would know how, even as a child, i had a stomachful of questions, and an analytical nature to boot!

            Did you know that there were lies in you textbook?

            Did you know that there are lies in YOUR textbooks? Or at least glaring omissions? i had the same textbooks millions of schoolchildren have all over the United States, not sanitized, homogenized ones "compatible with Biblical truths".

            If there is No God I do you tell right from wrong?

            really? oh boy. i am really quite moral, considering i am a Godless heathen. and my son, who has not had any "religious training" (his choice, not mine) is an honors student, good citizen, kind and compassionate, so i think we know how to distinguish right from wrong.

            1. spiderpam profile image77
              spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

              Did you think relgion was God, if so that would explain why you still don't know him.

              Where does morals come from? If it's all subjective how can you honestly say you are moral? By whose standards?

              Where are these lies you speak of in the bible?

              Can you which "proofs" of evolution are truth snd which are frauds?

              How did thought evolve?

              1. profile image0
                cosetteposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                wow.

                you know what?

                i'm not even going to dignify this with a response.

                YOU...Pam...YOU said "textbooks" ....not the Bible....did you even bother to read my response?

                you know what...i tried to be courteous to you and ignore your holier-than-thou attitude, and i attempted to answer your questions in good faith and here you are trying to poke me in the back with it.

                i know who i am.

                i know what i am and how i live and treat my fellow man and innocent creatures, and i certainly am not ABOUT to justify an answer i gave to you in good faith.

                happy now?

                now run along and continue your crusade with someone else who wants to listen to it - i'm -bleep-ing DONE. mad

              2. Cagsil profile image80
                Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                How did thought evolve? I answered that question, which she refused to take as fact.

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  I have not had answers either. I have never had a straight answer from religionists to many questions, they jump over it or quote scripture! lol

                  1. wyanjen profile image80
                    wyanjenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                    Or, they rephrase the question and accuse you of not understanding it  tongue

      2. spiderpam profile image77
        spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        mark do you have any answers for me yet?

  27. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 9 years ago

    The questions you ask have been answered by Mark Knowles, Wordscibe and many others. In great detail and with piles of empirical evidence from hundreds of recognized authorive sources.

    If you do not want to know so far, I would not expect you to actually read them.

  28. Cagsil profile image80
    Cagsilposted 9 years ago

    Life does have meaning, it's just not what religion claims it is.

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Life has different meanings.

      1. Cagsil profile image80
        Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Your right tantrum.

        It is up to us to figure out what our lives mean to us. Not to be guided by an external authority, who says, "OBEY or be judged"

        Humankind answers to NO ONE!

        And to think so, is insanity.

        1. tantrum profile image60
          tantrumposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          My personal belief is that this life is a joke.  Mind Games.

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            smile   I like something a psychologist friend says.
            "It's your myth, you live it!"

            1. tantrum profile image60
              tantrumposted 9 years agoin reply to this

              Right ! big_smile

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                Hi Tantrum!

                1. tantrum profile image60
                  tantrumposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Hi Earnest ! I'm on other thread ! lol

                  1. profile image0
                    cosetteposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                    big_smile

                    i love you guys.... wink

              2. Cagsil profile image80
                Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                Yeah, but the only reason I have been on hubpages is to spread the word about the false validity of religion and to hopefully make money too, but that's another thing.

                The importance is OVERALL Humankind.

                Continue civlized humans to believe in a non-existent GOD is no longer a viable option.

                It in and of itself, is destroying people's lives and it needs to stop.

  29. spiderpam profile image77
    spiderpamposted 9 years ago

    Just be consistent is all I ask. Why hang out in religious forums and deny something to swear does not exist, you can only deny what does exist. Then flee to a gossip like angry children corner when what you really believe is shown to you. You can’t claim absolute knowledge then never answer questions of morals without a moral giver it's lunacy.
    @ cos I remember your first pic when you first started hub pages, you seemed so… if you ever do find Jesus without religion these “friends” you love so much will turn on you quicker than you ever imagine.

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You're so bitter ! I'm sorry!  Your life didn't turn out good ?

      1. spiderpam profile image77
        spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Better than you'll ever know. I know who determines morality. I know the Creator of the entire universe. I can tell you straight killing/raping/lying is wrong without subjectivity. What about you?

        1. tantrum profile image60
          tantrumposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          i cant ell you the same. That's not difficult to reason  I think. And I don't need a creator to give  y ou the same answer

          1. spiderpam profile image77
            spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            When you have no basis it just blah blah

        2. profile image0
          cosetteposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          hmm...i can do the same thing. interesting! yikes

          GE 6:11-17, 7:11-24 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to do something about it. He kills every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah's family and thereby makes himself the greatest mass murderer in history.

          GE 19:26 God personally sees to it that Lot's wife is turned to a pillar of salt (for having looked behind her while fleeing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah).

          GE 38:9 "... whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked ..., so the Lord put him to death."


          NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their households (including wives and children) because the men had been rebellious.

          NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.

          NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

          so, by your logic, killing is killing.

          period.

          no room for subjectivity.

          hmm.

          p.s. i have never killed anyone, nor have i ever stolen anything from anyone (even when we were DIRT POOR) and i have never raped anyone either....and i doubt any of the "atheists" on this thread have either. if i was "good" it wasn't out of fear of eternal punishment - it was because i KNEW it was WRONG.

          1. spiderpam profile image77
            spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            You can't be serious? How do you know it's wrong? God is GOD The Lawgiver, only He has the right to pass final judgment. It's a circle with you.
            You want to borrow our morals from God and use His word to fault God? And I'm arrogant.
            Why did God kill? It goes back to be beginning. SIN=DEATH. Read through all of your accounts in context: What did they do wrong? Didn’t God warn them? Yet they still  refused thus causing their own demise. In one of the accounts they were pagans who burned children babies as a sacrifice to a idol. Should God have let that continue? If God were to kill you or me right now He would be completely justified. Why? Because You and I have committed sin we broke His law like everyone else, We lied, hated, lusted and broken more probably I know I have. The only thing that separates us is I know I’ve done wrong I know I needed a Saviour. And now I have Him, you’re still In denial, you never knew God. So please stop using that like it gives you authority. Jesus  died on the cross for me and you. With love this is your wake up warning.
            PS If you get it now, I doubt you ever will, I must leave to your fate. I'm still praying for you. spiderpam out.

            1. Cagsil profile image80
              Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

              And the point you're missing is, that it WAS NOT "GOD" who corrected your life. YOU DID!

              1. spiderpam profile image77
                spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                It's was God, How can you tell me what I know, Your views is subjective, meaningless and can never be proven without many objection from other Christians who know God. I am a witness to God, that's how I know He is. Trust me until never understand until you.. find Him.

            2. profile image0
              cosetteposted 9 years agoin reply to this

              Pam....YOUR God sent his son to die for YOU...not other people's. you seem to be laboring under the false impression that the Christian god is the only god out there.

              i don't believe in YOUR God. i believe there is some spiritual entity out there somewhere but it is absoultely NOTHING like the God depicted in the fairy tale known as the holy bible.

              "in denial"? i love your armchair psychoanlysis. you don't know me at all, or my experience, where i am on my journey, where i have been. you said that you lied and stealed and hated even though you went to church for 20 years. i haven't been to God's house since i was a teenager but i have not lived a life of sin. you think you have the market cornered on moral behavior? my mother beat me every chance she got when i was growing up because she was insanely jealous of my father's love for me. she hated me because i was pretty. she called me all kinds of horrible names which no child should hear, especially from her own mother. but i never hated her. when i grew up, i forgave her for what she did to me, and i even had sympathy and empathy for her, a person who never told me she loved me once...not even on her deathbed. a person who was a devout religious woman. a person who called me 'whore' from age five just because i was pretty. and i broke the cycle and never once laid a hand on my own child - EVER!

              you seem to think that character comes from reading a book.

              character comes from how you handle what Life gives you. how you grow from your experience. how you treat your fellow man. how you feel when you DO do something wrong. it's funny though...i never hit anyone, never deliberately hurt anyone because i knew what that felt like.

              this is how your moral compass is activated inside of you. and you keep tweaking it and refining it based on the sum of your experiences.

              don't tell me in one breath you will pray for me and in the next that you are "leaving me to my fate" and that you are giving me my "wakeup WARNING". frankly a lot of what you said doesn't make a lot of sense and puts words in my mouth but if you need to do that to justify your arrogance and smug "i've got God in my corner nah nah nah", go right ahead. you can project all you want, but i know the truth and so do you, for all your cockiness. if you're so happy and at peace and filled with "God's love" and your "personal relationship" with him, why would you feel a need to parade it before "non-believers" like, in your words "a badge of honor"?

              :p

              1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image91
                mistyhorizon2003posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                Another excellent and heartfelt, logical post well put.

                1. profile image0
                  sneakorocksolidposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Another example of true *Enlightenment*, Ding!

                  1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image91
                    mistyhorizon2003posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                    ??????

            3. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

              I must remember part of this. Next time my children are bad, I will just kill them! That should make my ego feel better! smile

              1. wyanjen profile image80
                wyanjenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                I do not lie or hate. Don't lump me in your category.
                I am starting to get an inkling of what hate may feel like just now tho... smile

  30. Uninvited Writer profile image83
    Uninvited Writerposted 9 years ago

    Wouldn't it get boring to you to be always preaching to those who already agree with you?

    I have friends who believe in God, they are still my friends. But they don't impose their beliefs on me.

    I'm sorry you don't understand what being human truly is.

    1. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      UW that 100 is still there, looks like it may be glued! smile

    2. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Thats because we're freaking aliens! And we're not *Enlightened*.

      1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
        Uninvited Writerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Mine was actually a reply to Pam, meant for another thread. I got confused smile

        You have to stop jumping to conclusions smile

        1. profile image0
          sneakorocksolidposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Damn! And I was ready to go to!smile

          1. tantrum profile image60
            tantrumposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            lol Hi sneak !!

            1. profile image0
              sneakorocksolidposted 9 years agoin reply to this

              Hey Bro whats up?smile

              1. tantrum profile image60
                tantrumposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                Touring the religion forum big_smile

                1. spiderpam profile image77
                  spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  you're 2 in this form sounds like more than touring.

                  1. tantrum profile image60
                    tantrumposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                    Are you stalking me ? yikes hmm

                2. profile image0
                  sneakorocksolidposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Leave us prayers alone, ya big bully!

  31. Pr0metheus profile image58
    Pr0metheusposted 9 years ago

    And here I was thinking 'Green Eggs and Ham' was the greatest story every told.  I should have been paying more attention!

  32. Cagsil profile image80
    Cagsilposted 9 years ago

    Pam,

    You only had to make the decision, all on your own, that you needed to change something.

    "GOD" didn't change it for you.

    You didn't need a savior, you needed a different perspective. To make yourself believe that things would be or get better.

    Not that I agree with the path you took, but it was the first step.

    1. spiderpam profile image77
      spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      It's was God, How can you tell me what I know, Your views is subjective, meaningless and can never be proven without many objection from other Christians who know God. Seek and you will find Him, but your heart is so hard, God may not ever not exist....for you. But trust one day "every knee will bow and every tougue shall confess." Jesus is Lord. spider pam out times 2 lol

      1. Pr0metheus profile image58
        Pr0metheusposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        You do realize this argument works both ways, right?

      2. Cagsil profile image80
        Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Little lady, I know more about Jesus Christ than you'll ever learn from whatever book you read. I know, I did the research.

        And, I didn't have to delve into religion to understand Jesus Christ's message. I only had to understand the time in which he lived, which apparently you do not know about.

        By the way, I did try to tell you earlier about the time of his life, but you said it was subjective.

        1. spiderpam profile image77
          spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I read about MLK and Michael Jackson, so that means I know them? Reading does not equate knowing. Research can't equate to absolute knowledge it can only equate to an opinionate theory backed with flapping gums.  You can't prove He is not real, but I know He is period. No truth can come someone who has no basis to be truthful. Do you see where logic leads> blah blah blah nonsense.  Out times  3 for real this time I’m out.

  33. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 9 years ago

    Jesus has left the building ages ago. To misquote Monty Python,

    Jesus is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet its maker. This is a late Jesus. It's a stiff. Bereft of life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the perch, it would be pushing up the daisies. It's rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. This is an ex-Jesus.
    If he ever was at all. There is plenty of doubt about that too! smile

    1. wyanjen profile image80
      wyanjenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      No- you stunned him, just as he was waking up. He stuns easily, you know.

  34. yoshi97 profile image69
    yoshi97posted 9 years ago

    Getting back to creationisn vs. evolution ... what about a third theory?

    The ark carried a pair of each kind of animal - i.e. two cats ... not two of every kind of cat.

    Given this as true then the current bio diversity didn't exist after the great flood but came into being over time. Tossing Charles Darwin aside (he's made too many mistakes to be considered by modern believers in evolution), is it possible that these species went on to form the other ones over time via genetic drift?

    The reason I ask is that we *have* found some transient creatures that sit in-between the middle of others on the evolutionary chain, but we have also found branches where throwbacks continued on. A good example is how apes continued on like humans did, even though humans were biologically advantaged and superior.

    Sometimes I think we all look at evolution wrong, thinking of it as creature A magically turns into creature B and creature A disappears. Instead, I think mutations happen over time - some good and some bad - and the good ones generate new species. However, this doesn't cause the originating species to disappear.

    Here's an example I came up with to explain my case ... Let's say there are ancient elephants and some of them are born more woolly than others through genetic drift. The woolly ones mind the heat so they trudge off to cooler pastures where they interbreed and set this new subspecies further apart, making them the woolly mammoths we have found fossils of.

    However, a climate change occurs that they can't adapt to and they die off, leaving this branch as a dead end while the original elephants continue.

    With this theory it's no longer the old thought where creatures evolve to create an advantage for themselves. Instead, they mutate, and if that mutation happens to enough of them and creates an advantage, then they branch off as their own species.

    Considering the amount of mutations that can occur on such a large planet, I don't think it would take long to achieve a high level of biodiversity.

    This violates nothing taught in science, nor does it violate anything brought forth by religion. It also explains why you don;t find the bones of large mammals in the same geological region as bones of large dinosaurs. They never lived together, so one was never part of the other's world ... but to say a fish jumped out of the water and immediately became a frog is too far of a stretch.

    Instead, there were evolutionary links. Some fish developed primitive lungs (like the lung fish) and could spend periods of time out of water. From there, it was amphibians, reptiles, mammals, and aviary ... in some order close to that mentioned, though there is much room for debate on this ... and there should be ... as we stifle ourselves as a species when we refuse to question the world around us.

    Another thing people don't seem to get is that evolution *is not* and *never was* an argument against creationism. Scientists don't create theories to disprove religion, they make them to explain unknown things around them and then they spend their lifetime trying to prove or disprove their theories.

    Many won't believe this, but Darwin was actually a Christian and at one point almost became a clergyman

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Da … n_religion

    He never sought to undermine religion, not did he see his work as trying to disprove God. In fact, he fancied himself as someone trying to understand God's work. Christianity turned on Darwin because they greatly disliked how he said we evolved from the apes, as it says in the Bible Adam was given dominion over all beasts and being told we were once an animal was a major offense to the Christian doctrine.

    Had Darwin said all creatures *except mankind* evolved over the eons, then no one today would debate evolutionism. Instead they would say it all made sense, was proven on sound science, and would accept the many theories of Darwin as fact, including the ones he was wrong about.

    Instead, evolutionism has been scrutinized at every step and has withstood the test of time.

    However, we must realize that Darwin did not father evolutionism, he merely tried to explain how it worked and messed things up a bit.

    There can be no doubt that species evolve from other species, but it's not about creatures evolving out of a need to self-improve and there have also been some throwbacks where species evolved to dead ends that didn't last very long.

    Evolution isn't survival of the fittest as some might think. If that were the case, we would still all be prokaryotes, as these minuscule single-celled life forms required little energy, could live almost anywhere, and didn't compete for resources.

    Fact is, evolution is a series of genetic drifts that create new species that attempt to adapt and continue on. Those capable of doing so become new species and those that aren't become biological dead ends.

    God's part in this is creation ... whether we want to credit him with evolution or not depends on whether we believe God exists only for us or if God exists for every living thing on this Earth. God could ignore evolution and let it happen or he could take an active role in it. Either way, creatures do evolve, but they don't spontaneous transform into other higher life forms and they don't evolve to gain some sort of biological edge.

    Another thing we need to realize is that the fossil layers show the evolutionary winners. For every one million creatures that die each year, maybe one or two die in such a way that they will eventually be fossilized. As such, going with the odds, we will only find the winners as these creatures were plentiful to beat the odds. There are tons of evolutionary dead ons we will never discover as proof of their existence was never recorded in the fossils.

    In this truth you will find the reason there are few early human hominids to be found. In ancient times, we just weren't all that plentiful, in comparison to every other life form out there.

    Scientists will never find 100 perfect skeletons of Homo Ergaster in a pit somewhere, as they were smart enough not to fall into the pit, and not plentiful enough to fall to a natural disaster and be accounted for in a large number.

    I entered this thread originally for one reason ... the whole idea of creationism vs evolutionism offended me, as it showed who so many people understand the concept of one or the other, but only a handful truly understood both ... and like me they were saying ... this is like comparing basketball to soccer .. their both games, they both exist, their played differently, and the existence of one does absolutely nothing to exclude the existence of the other.

    However, evolution has been misused by many to disprove the existence of God and creationism has been used to express the ignorance of non-believers.

    In truth ... it's our thinking that needs to evolve. God spent a lot of work giving us one of the largest brains on the planet and providing us with an insatiable curiosity to seek the truth. It just saddens me that both sides of this coin can't see the two items coexist and cannot be separated.

    Also, I poke a lot at Noah's Ark, but not because I want to disprove it happened ... but because it proves evolution and creationism all in one story.

    With a smaller biodiversity, Noah could have taken two of each type of land animal and these could have evolved to what we see today. Of course, we can't prove Noah's Ark truly existed, but it matters not to those who have read about it and realized it has been passed down through generations as a warning to all men that God will not tolerate wickedness forever.

    So ... this debate was always a bit odd as both parties were intent to disprove something they could never disprove and when that failed they went off to arguing over the existence of God and proof that the Bible is a factual account of events.

    Wanna know what? I would't care if Jesus himself walked up to me tomorrow, handed me a Bible, and said 'We made the whole thing up. Nothing in the book is true. We just wanted to see if everyone would get sucked into it.' I'd still believe in a creator, as I can offer no other possible explanation as to how something so vast as the universe was created.

    My beliefs don't stem from somebody dying for me. My beliefs stem from a self humility that I am a microdot in the universe and whatever created it is vastly superior to me and able to squash me like a bug at any instant. As such, I do my best to live a good life and to do nothing to cause my creator discontent. smile

    1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image91
      mistyhorizon2003posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Very logical and intelligent response. Makes perfect sense and doesn't take sides. Actually one of the best arguments I have ever heard or read, as it shows that "both" sides could be right, not simply one OR the other. Well done!

      1. Evolution Guy profile image59
        Evolution Guyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        No - this is not a logical and intelligent response. It does not make any sense and absolutely takes the side that says "please believe in god. Sooner or later I will come up with an argument that  means god exists. Please believe a 450 foot long hand made wooden boat held every TYPE of animal and the dingos in Australia, the North American wolf and the European toy poodles "evolved" from a single pair of "DOG TYPE" creatures that Noah saved in the flood which has absolutely zero evidence for"

        What utter nonsense.

        We evolved over millions of year.

        There was no flood and no Ark.

        Now - if that means your irrational beliefs are  broken - you need a rethink.

        Deal with it. lol

      2. rvsource profile image61
        rvsourceposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        I'm like you in a way in saying that both sides are valid. I vary a little on my interpretation of the third idea.

        I look further in the past and future. I think of the solar system and planets and what is beyond that. There is more to explain than just "were we created, or did we evolve." The simple fact that we are here in my opinion proves a creation! beyond our planet is "space" or matter that had to come from somewhere. Just how far does space go? Infinity might be the answer, but how far is that and what's beyond infinity?

        We have dinosaurs, aliens, life on other planets all happening. One can't just try and explain a small section of our reality.

        Science can only explain things that are tangible to testing methods. The fact of the matter is that not everything is tangible! We have dreams, that some say, me included are messages from the spiritual realm. Science can't test that because they don't have that capability.

        I want to throw this into the mix. I believe that all matter was created, call the creator what you want, God, Henry, whatever. I just see the creator as an energy source, nothing more or less. I believe it is a "divine" energy that is all knowing. Is it a bearded guy with white hair? doubtful, or maybe it might appear that way to some. I also believe that all people, animals, all living things, including plants have a connection with that energy source. In other words we are part of that divine source.

        Matter was created by this source and our energies or "souls" choose their life path before "incarnate" I think most people believe in the term "soul." Our soul is an entity that lives for ever, never dies and can incarnate hundreds or thousands of times and in different forms. As the soul becomes more advanced and karmic issues are resolved it may incarnate less, and eventually remain in the spiritual realm, possibly becoming a guide for other souls.

        In the meantime, there is matter to explain. Our planets, solar system, gravity, stars, aliens, dinosaurs and etc. I believe that dinosaurs did live, as we have skeletons. But I believe that dinosaurs lived before humans inhabited the Earth. There's nothing to say that the Earth wasn't here thousands, or even millions of years before man arrived. Perhaps our Earth and all of the planets are like "motels" that inhabit life when appropriate. Possibly there was life on Mars at one time, or the other planets. What if during life on Mars, the Earth was a "dead" planet and this time was after dinosaurs died off. The skeletons remained in the Earth deep down later to be discovered by our scientists of today. Maybe the beginning time described in Genesis sorta happened in a way, but was described in the bible the only way that author understood? Perhaps the world, our Earth went through a "renovation" period after the dinosaurs inhabited it. Perhaps the Earth changed shapes, climates and etc so that our current living creatures could survive. Perhaps also one day, maybe sooner than we know, this life might end. It is possible that life could begin on another planet and inhabit different life forms that we currently know and understand.

        Science has come a long ways over the years, but they do not have the answers to all of matter and creation. If they did there would be no need for them to advance and come up with new testing equipment. I look at it like this. 50 years ago, science might have said that their methods were fact and they had all the answers, but now 50 years later they are much more advanced and understand DNA better, able to work with AIDS patients better, but they still aren't perfect. 50 years from now they will have even more testing capabilities that allow them to explain things. But as of yet, science has NOT been able to create life in a laboratory. They can clone, and manipulate DNA and alter, possibly even cause a chicken to grow a long tail. But science cannot create the DNA genetic code from scratch that all of living animals have.

        To me it is the divine energy that set everything in motion, all matter, all space. This energy gave life the ability to alter itself. We can sleep with our siblings and create a human being with down syndrome. A white man can have sex with a black women and the child will become Barack Obama! But the beginning origin of life and DNA was created.

        It won't be until science can tap into our spiritual realm and get answers from the intangible world that can't be seen by the normal eye, or tested with a machine.

        Does this spiritual world exist? I believe so because I've experienced it in many ways. There are medians that use the spiritual realm to solve crimes. Science has no way to prove or disprove this, but it happens. People have died only later to be brought back life, all or most of them telling the same story about them seeing their bodies below and a feeling of peace.

        I guess I've gone a long ways here to explain that I believe, and this is my opinion, that all matter was created including the ability to manipulate and alter our future generations. This is part of our wiring.

        Ok I will close now and prepare to be BLASTED!! lol

  35. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 9 years ago

    Good work yoshi, I agree with much of what you say, but cannot grasp a belief in religion any more.
    One source of very disputed information from one book?

    1. Cagsil profile image80
      Cagsilposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      LOL

    2. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Now, we've talked about your sources before. Old 'I Love Lucy Shows' played backwards on the second Tuesday of a full moon while drinking margaritas, is not an acceptable source.

      1. earnestshub profile image88
        earnestshubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        i did not specify a full moon and it is Wednesdays between2 and 3 pm. smile

        1. profile image0
          sneakorocksolidposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Damn! I got it wrong again!smile

          1. earnestshub profile image88
            earnestshubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Blasphemy!!!!

            1. wyanjen profile image80
              wyanjenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

              wow. it's late for me I admit, but this makes complete sense to me.

              1. earnestshub profile image88
                earnestshubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                I just hate it when people get my religion wrong! lol

                1. quietnessandtrust profile image59
                  quietnessandtrustposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Don't you hate it when your grand kids get you wrong too? lol

                  1. wyanjen profile image80
                    wyanjenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                    Its late and I took my night meds. Everything goes to hell now. This is how I wind up with bizarre graphics in my hubs that dont seem to make sense. but they make me laff. no Photoshop for me tonight. I have a lovely pic of the Iranian president and I want to put a record of the Ramones in his hand. hi-lar-i-ous.
                    i'm signing off now.
                    later gators

                  2. earnestshub profile image88
                    earnestshubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                    My grandkids will never take me alive I tells ya! I admit to being scared of Asha who is 4, but she is a twin, and so has reinforcements! If I start to win they call in superspiderman who is indestructible and 5 year old. I am on my way to babysit them in an hour or two.... smile
                    You'd be scared too! lol

                2. profile image0
                  sneakorocksolidposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Praying for more Spam will only get you more Spam!(the kind you eat)

  36. shanekruger profile image59
    shanekrugerposted 9 years ago

    Thanks for sharing a nice post.

  37. profile image0
    cosetteposted 9 years ago

    hey...Pam....i really don't know why you felt compelled to take our discussion out of the forum and into email. i have no interest in establishing any sort of dialog with you, and frankly i don't appreciate your comments and assumptions about my son in your raving email either.

    you asked me "what if my child grows to be a preacher, how would i cope, would i call him brainwashed and his belief a fairy tale, and would i burn every bible i could find and would i be jealous that he found God with you denying Him."

    this is BEYOND ABSURD

    that may be how YOU conduct your life, but i do not live in fear. i have always championed anything my son wanted to do regardless of whether or not it fits into my view of the world.

    let me put it into perspective for you:

    And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, "Speak to us of Children."
    And he said:
    Your children are not your children.
    They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
    They come through you but not from you,
    And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.
    You may give them your love but not your thoughts.
    For they have their own thoughts.
    You may house their bodies but not their souls,
    For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
    You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
    For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
    You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
    The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
    Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
    For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.
    -Khalil Gibran


    he is free to choose whatever path he wishes.

    period.

    his life is HIS life not mine!

    i would never try to talk him out of doing anything he wanted to do.

    "burn all bibles"? are you insane? as a writer and a lover of books, ANY book, i would not burn a single one! and for the record, i called THE BIBLE a fairy tale, 'k?

    don't write to me anymore. you obviously live in some closed-off nether world and have a lot of bizarre assumptions about people.

    good luck with that!

    1. spiderpam profile image77
      spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Cosette, I first contacted outside forums I wanted to end it there, but you've got something to prove. Go right ahead.

      I wrote "This rant is very different than the first one I found of yours the first one was sad, hurt, lonely, confused, but this one here: loud, angry, dark, brazen, hard, but still sad.  In that painful, anger fuelled rant cosette lies God's conviction and His unlimited love waiting for you. Even when through all that you are still here."

      You didn't address this. 

      I wrote "This spirit in which you speak what are it’s morals, where can they be found? Is it based on feelings? Then I beg you whose feelings? Your own? and why do you trust it? If your is based of your own feelings  than how you can you call  anyone’s beliefs a “fairy tale”? To be honest you can simply say I don’t know. If it’s only based on your feelings,
      Isn’t your “god” you?"

      Still you didn't address this either. You are your own, god. Good luck with that and that is was you will pass down believe it or not.

      I know you have think me closed minded and wrong in other to elevate your self, to a self righteous virtue, you may think you are open-minded but it couldn’t be more shut, The paths our children pick will be based on what we believe no matter how you try to spin it. I never claimed to know everything, but you did, you tried to claim  absolute knowledge,(my God doesn’t exist)You don’t know Him so for you He doesn’t exist. Your traumatic upbringing, and horrible religion stories neither proves nor disproves my God. Because God is not religion. Because you were taught they are one in the same makes sense why you don’t know Him. You don’t like I used the bible, but you can use someone else  words to prove your point how  dissembling. In all your bible bashing, quote mining and utterly disdain for the bible, you left out God’s grace it’s truly ironic.
      Be happy cos, you feel the need to vent more pardon me if I don’t reply.

      For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities -- His eternal power and Divine nature -- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that you are without excuse. (Romans 1:20)
      Spiderpam out, Praise be to God.

      1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
        Uninvited Writerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        You do know that harassing people using HubPages email is against the TOS don't you?

      2. wyanjen profile image80
        wyanjenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        cosette, forgive me for butting in.

        spiderpam: this is very out of line here.
        Just take my word. Out of line.

  38. Cagsil profile image80
    Cagsilposted 9 years ago

    Pam,

    I can see your "ego" has gotten the best of you. I do hope that you have the good sense, to know, when to end a conversation, when it needs to be ended.

    If you're going to spout attacks on people. It really isn't going to get you anywhere.

    Did you come here to debate the topic or what?

    If you did, then do so.

    You bring "religious" beliefs, which have NOTHING to do with the topic.

    Evolution just happens.

    And, YES it answers all the questions humankind could possible ask about How we came to be?

    It doesn't matter HOW we got here, as in where did we evolve from, such as animal or what? But, it doesn't need to, because it's not that important. Just the fact- Civilized humankind has existed this long is a surprise.

    How ever, with that said.....I now bring you back to your belief.

    The system you built your belief on is untrue. Whether or not, you can accept that fact, will determine whether or not, you're in complete control of your life.

    If you choose to belief- a "god" or "mythical" figure, exists beyond reality, then that is your choice.

    You have stated your opinion.

    Your biggest problem is misunderstanding, which I have tried to tell you before, but you wouldn't listen. Yes, I know...you believe something as a fact, which cannot be proven.

    Think about that for a second- You believe- something to be a fact. Yet, you have no proof?

    Since when is it in your best interest to believe in something you can not prove. Don't say, "You gotta have faith". Because, no you don't.

    YOU are not meant to be lead by any other authority, besides yourself.

    If you give up your own independent free will thought, then you sacrifice your life for nothing, for something in which you have no proof exists.

    Therefore, in all rationale- you wasted your life on nothing.

    That's ashame.

  39. Uninvited Writer profile image83
    Uninvited Writerposted 9 years ago

    You really shouldn't talk to yourself on the forums, pam smile

    1. nowisthetime34 profile image58
      nowisthetime34posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Deleted

      1. tantrum profile image60
        tantrumposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        lol lol  lol Who R U ?

    2. Misha profile image69
      Mishaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I second this. Talking to yourself on forums is bad for your mental health smile

  40. Uninvited Writer profile image83
    Uninvited Writerposted 9 years ago

    I have got nothing against Christians. I have something against rude people.

    1. nowisthetime34 profile image58
      nowisthetime34posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Deleted

    2. profile image0
      A Texanposted 9 years ago

      This thing is still going?

    3. Uninvited Writer profile image83
      Uninvited Writerposted 9 years ago

      Apparently smile

    4. TheAllSeeingEye profile image60
      TheAllSeeingEyeposted 9 years ago

      Evolution only works if everything is made up of the same DNA structure, but evolves differently due to their environments.

      Humans are not! We are the only species that have an alien DNA structure to every other creature on the planet. Intellect design anyone?

      1. Atheist Classical profile image59
        Atheist Classicalposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Wow.  I don't know what else to say to that, except to point out that our DNA is very, very close to the DNA of some primates.  I would be interested in the "evidence" for this alien DNA theory. 

        Is is bad form to plug a book here?  I'm about 1/3 through Dawkins' "Greatest Show on Earth" and it's amazing.  Not that I needed convincing, but the truth is awesome enough for this spiritual atheist.

        You should check it out.

    5. yoshi97 profile image69
      yoshi97posted 9 years ago

      I already posted the proof for evolution everyone asked for, but everyone ignored it or asked for more information that had nothing to do with proving evolution.

      Once again, many here are misinformed, thinking what Darwin proposed was evolution - it wasn't. Darwin gave his theory as to how he thought evolution occurred, but he did not propose the theory of evolution itself. Even if we say Darwin was a lunatic and got everything wrong he ever researched, this does nothing to the theory of evolution.

      Also, the misinformed want to make evolution a religious argument. They believe that if evolution exists then it's proof God doesn't exist. This is no different than saying that the theory of gravity must go because it disproves the existence of God.

      Evolution has no religious implications whatsoever. In fact, all evolution states is that simple species evolve overtime to more complex species.

      I'm not about to post the proofs again for the sixth time and have them ignored. Not one person argued with them, choosing instead to continue to argue with one another and ignore the proof that had been given.

      A such, if you are truly interested in hearing the proof then email me and I'll provide it. It's okay to argue whether or not evolution exists, but it's pure stubbornness to totally ignore the proof you ask for once it is given.

      And why is it that a 2,000 year old book holds more wait than archeological evidence unearthed in the past 200 years?

      I noted that not one theologian cried fowl when ancient cities from the Bible were unearthed by these same archeologists. And I also don't remember hearing any cries of fowl when these ancient cities were dated to the time the Bible ascribes to them.

      And to those using evolution as a podium to attack creationism, why make this a religious debate? They can't prove God exists any  more than you can prove he doesn't. Evolution is not a religious battlefield any more than gravity is.

      So, continue to fight on about this if you will but know that you are not debating evolution vs. creationism. Instead, you are arguing belief vs. disbelief. Now I ask ... what does that have to do with this topic?

      We all chose for ourselves whether to believe or not to believe ... can't we just let it at that? It's not like anyone here is going to convert anyone to the other side, so why continue the attacks and misdirections?

      Sorry ... I just had to get that off of my chest ...

    6. wyanjen profile image80
      wyanjenposted 9 years ago

      I'm gonna have to get me one of these fancy alter egos.

    7. Cagsil profile image80
      Cagsilposted 9 years ago

      Just show how insane it is for many people's beliefs about Life?

      Such, "Who Created Existence" and the "Why of the Universe" is to understand you've been manipulated.

      To clear up:

      Let's attack one of the underlining concepts, people have belief in- "Who Created Existence" and "Why of the Universe" are ancient, mind-subverting gimmicks of positing invalid, intellectually untenable questions that have no basis in reality. That false-question maneuver has been used by theologians and other mystics for centuries. The gimmick works by taking an invalid or meaningless idea and then cloaking the idea with specious but profound-sounding phraseology. That phraseology is then used as an "intellectual" prop to advance false, irrational concepts or doctrines.

      Consider, for example, the "Who Created Existence" and the "Why of the Universe" questions so often used by poets and theologians to advance the God or higher-power concept. On closer examination, one realizes the invalid questions such as "who made the universe" are meaningless and unprofound.

      For that type of infinite-regression question(of who created the creator and so on back) answers nothing and is anti-intellectual. Such questions cannot or need not be answered once one realizes that existence exists.

      On realizing that by nature existence simply exists, one then realizes that the "Who Created Existence" and "Why of the Universe" questions cannot or need never be answered because no causal explanations are needed for existence in the universe. Existence is axiomatic. It just exists, it always had and always will exist. Nothing created it and no causual explanation is needed or valid.

      For, what is the alternative? No alternative is possible or needed, unless on accepts the contradiction that existence does not exist!

    8. Don W profile image84
      Don Wposted 9 years ago

      Thanks yoshi97. That comment can save a lot of people a lot of needless typing.

    9. spiderpam profile image77
      spiderpamposted 9 years ago

      I don't need an alter ego for anything I stand by words, no apologizes! You guys aren't the only anti-God, anti-Christian people I deal with. If wanna bash me go right ahead Jesus went through much more for me. I can take it. Don't fight for me
      nowisthetime, they are not worth it.
      John 15:18-1918 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

      Could someone please close this forum?

      1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
        Uninvited Writerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Believe it or not...no one here hates you...
        we just disagree with you

        1. spiderpam profile image77
          spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I wouldn't want to meet the people you do hate. don't bother. Spiderpam Out

    10. wyanjen profile image80
      wyanjenposted 9 years ago

      No need to close this forum.
      Some people are having a legitimate conversation here.
      You could just stop reading it.

      1. spiderpam profile image77
        spiderpamposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        You certainly have not.

        1. wyanjen profile image80
          wyanjenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Of course I haven't. It's an interesting conversation, when you weed out the personal griping.
          But if I had a problem with this forum, I wouldn't ask somebody to close it.

          I would just stop reading it.

    11. Don W profile image84
      Don Wposted 9 years ago

      Sorry to be off topic but The Prophet was one of the first books of poetry I ever read big_smile

      I'll get out the way now neutral

    Closed to reply
     
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