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Besides Fear, Why Be A Christian?

  1. Fairbear profile image54
    Fairbearposted 8 years ago

    Christians -- Leaving Hell out of the picture entirely, I wonder if you can tell me why I should be a Christian. Can you?

    I mean, here's your chance to convert me. But since fear is not a good enough reason for me, I need you to give me some other reason to be a Christian. How can your religion change my life for the better? Why is your religion the only right way to go? Can you answer these questions without involving fear of Hell?

    Or is fear the glue that holds your religion together?

    I want to know why Christianity is so much better than any other belief system. And when I say better I don't mean more terrifying. I mean what is so good about it that all other systems of belief pale in comparison?

    You see, that should be the real reason for choosing something. Not fear. Don't you think?

    So, tell me, Christians, what I can find in your faith that I don't already have, or that I cannot find elsewhere. And leave out the fear of Hell.

    1. Lady_E profile image82
      Lady_Eposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I've read a lot of your posts in Forums and think you should stay as you are. I definitely wouldn't want to convert you. Live your life the way you deem fit. Check out other religions and one day in the quietness of your heart, when all the misconceptions have gone, you'll probably make the call - all by yourself.  smile

      1. Fairbear profile image54
        Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        What misconceptions? Please tell me.

        If you're going to make a subtly insulting comment about me, the least you can do is explain what you mean.

        1. Lady_E profile image82
          Lady_Eposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          For the record I NEVER make insulting comments to people. Your explanation/proof is below.





          1. Fairbear profile image54
            Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Sorry to tarnish your self image, but your comment that my beliefs are a misconception that I will eventually shed is very insulting.

            1. Lady_E profile image82
              Lady_Eposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Sweet dreams Fairbear!
              I have proven my point with you.

              EDIT Ps. As to insulting comments. I wrote:

              "I've read a lot of your posts in Forums and think you should stay as you are. I definitely wouldn't want to convert you. Live your life the way you deem fit. Check out other religions and one day in the quietness of your heart, when all the misconceptions have gone, you'll probably make the call - all by yourself.  smile "

              There's a difference b/w Probably and eventually. (Probably being a possibility).

            1. Fairbear profile image54
              Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              You didn't even have a point. And it's not my bedtime.

              1. Lady_E profile image82
                Lady_Eposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Lol. Listen dear, you wanted some explanation on the fact that I wrote you had some misconceptions. I posted a few of your comments which indicated you did. It's that simple. Written in black and white.

                1. Fairbear profile image54
                  Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh I see. That was your way of showing me what you thought my misconceptions were.

                  that's fine by me as long as you recognize that it is only your opinion, and not fact.

    2. Kadmiels profile image69
      Kadmielsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      well said

      1. Fairbear profile image54
        Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe you could tell me what misconceptions she's referring to? Since you seem to agree with her.

  2. QualityS profile image3
    QualitySposted 8 years ago in reply to this

    You speak of fear of hell but much of Christian beliefs promote guilt.  Man is the only animal that that is aware of his inevitable death and therefore seeking a means of an afterlife.  This is the concept that drives all religion.  Heaven is the carrot and hell is the stick in this case. 

    Christians simply believe this is the best way they have of obtaining one while avoiding the other.  It requires faith that you may only reach this goal by belief in Christ. 

    What you are really asking is can you obtain this though other religions or beliefs?  The answer is what you inner voice tells you.

    Debating the merits of one religion versus the other is an argument that is the cause of many troubles in the world.  You might want to check out Unitarian beliefs.

    1. Fairbear profile image54
      Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I appreciate your input, but no, that's not what I'm asking.

      I'm only asking, what is the attraction to Christianity besides a means of escape from Hell?

      1. marshall92 profile image62
        marshall92posted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Family. If your mother and father were Christian, you would likely feel compelled to follow the same path regardless of whether or not you believe in heaven and hell.

  3. world of the wise profile image22
    world of the wiseposted 8 years ago in reply to this

    Christians are not christians bse they fear hell but bse they love God. the main part is Love

  4. PhilD41 profile image62
    PhilD41posted 8 years ago in reply to this

    Okay, I know my better sense is telling me to stay out of this, but I thought I would at least give 2 cents.

    First Fairbear, I am pretty sure you are just trolling.  I can't prove it, but I don't know of anyone that has been converted to any religion through a chat forum.  If you are truly curious, look into the book Precious Pearl recommended and find a local Church.  I think the book may even be free online somewhere.

    That said, fear has nothing to do with Christianity.  I am not saying it hasn't been incorrectly used, just that this is not the foundation or even a large part of the beliefs.  I believe because to me it is the most logical, yes logical.  My experiences and research have also backed this up. 

    Some will believe, some will not.  Others like Knowles will always mock those that do.  This is fine, and expected in a public arena such as this.  If you are serious, there are answers to be had.  If you are not, well I hope you received the response you were hoping for.  Either way... God bless.

    1. Fairbear profile image54
      Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Then if fear has nothing to do with Christianity, that means I'm OK, right? I don't even need to convert, since there's nothing to fear anyway. Thanks.

  5. profile image0
    cosetteposted 8 years ago in reply to this
    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      If that was happening in Australia they would go to jail for this. What a disgusting mindset these people have!

      1. profile image0
        cosetteposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        it almost has a terroristy feel to it...get them isolated, away from their parents, then drill them down. they even interrupted any time the children had alone together, just being little kids. i honestly don't know how they are getting away with it.



        i am sure there are more than a few Christians with open minds, and of course that documentary doesn't depict all Christians.

        but i do believe it depicts 90 percent of them. i happen to know a lot of people, and a lot of Christian people, and the funny thing about them is when they talk to you about politics or education or God or society in general, it is as if they are all speaking from the same script. seriously. i mean, verbatim. it is just something i noticed in my observations. and i'm glad you see how the tactics used at Jesus Camps are improper, since you don't want to be associated with that mindset.

    2. Valerie F profile image60
      Valerie Fposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Fear can be a powerful persuader. However, that Jesus Camp crowd does not represent all Christianity.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        lol

        How many times have I heard that? lol

        "Well - they are not real christians".....

        "I am a real christian."

        1. Valerie F profile image60
          Valerie Fposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Mark, I actually agree with taking all of that with a grain or several of salt. I avoid all that by simply judging all religions and philosophies strictly on the merits of their teachings, not on the failings of their adherents.

          I try not to hold myself up as a "real Christian," because I am fallible, I can be wrong about things, and I don't want people to get the wrong idea of my faith's real teachings based on my failure to follow them properly.

          That being said, what I meant when I said that the "Jesus Camp" crowd does not represent all Christianity is that you can't paint a whole world religion in all of its myriads of denominations with the same brush. Some people may convert out of fear, but it doesn't mean all or even most do.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            I see - and you think that I am not doing that?

            You think I have not read the bible and made a decision based on the perpetual hate mongering in that book?

            Nice cop out though.

            "Just because the followers have spent 1500 years creating hate and spreading war and fear - that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with christianity." lol 

            You are blinded by your "love." wink

            1. Valerie F profile image60
              Valerie Fposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              I didn't say you'd never read the Bible. I just think that the way you describe it as "perpetual hate-mongering" indicates you missed the most important parts of it- where hate mongering and spreading fear is contradicted and even forbidden.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                And around we go. I did not miss any of it. I am quite capable of understanding what it says and exactly why there has been 1500 years of fear and hatred. I believe that you do not follow it's teachings. I just think that you do not understand it. In my opinion I see no turning the other cheek from you. I am of the opinion that your book is hate mongering garbage - and the evidence of the last 1500 years backs me up on this.

                In my humble opinion you are blinded by your irrational beliefs to the point where you are making no sense at all.

                1. Valerie F profile image60
                  Valerie Fposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  I believe "turning the other cheek" means to forgive slights and insults rather than to retaliate. It doesn't mean shutting up, letting you ride roughshod over others without uttering a single protest, or lying and saying I think you're correct when I don't believe you are. That's what you come across as asking of me.

                  Furthermore, there's the full gist of the "judge not" passage, which means that if you're going to judge others, best be prepared for the same standards to be applied to you. Honest question. Can you handle turning the other cheek?

                  I still am of the opinion that you are not judging Christian teaching accurately. Contrast Christian teaching particularly as set out in the Gospels to how its supposed proponents actually behave. Mark the differences, because as you have been quick to point out to me (in the form of an unnecessarily personal attack), they do exist.

                  "God is love." "God so loved the world." "Love your neighbor as yourself." "Faith, hope, love, these three, but the greatest of these is love." "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." The idea that a book that includes these passages is "perpetual hate-mongering" makes absolutely no sense to me.

                  And I find it odd that you should come out so vocally against hate mongering when I have observed what seems to be too much quickness on your part to engage in the same thing. Well, no. Not odd. Hypocritical. Still really disappointing.

        2. Misha profile image74
          Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Insomnia? he-he. Good morning. smile

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Pretty much lol

  6. atomswifey profile image59
    atomswifeyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

    Very simply:
    The reward of speding an eternity, not just a lifetime with God in Heaven.

    Heaven: A place where there is no sin! because there is no sin, there is no illness, no pain, no suffering, no grief, no violence, no death, no crime, everything and everyone being made perfect! Perfect in love, perfect in peace, perfect in grace, perfect in happiness and joy
    A place where its beauty cannot even be imagined. Think about that, something so beautiful, you cannot even use your imagination which is endless to describe or picture it.

    And also that God being so perfect in love chose to create us as humans to be able to live with Him in all of that beauty, in all that perfection and all we have to do for that eternal reward is what? Believe?

    That to me sounds like a great reason to start believing!

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Not that you have an agenda or anything.................

      1. atomswifey profile image59
        atomswifeyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        She asked the question Mark in the very topic itself!

        LOL You really are on an ego trip aren't you?

        1. Fairbear profile image54
          Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          I've told you before that I'm not a she, I'm a he. Don't you remember?

          So, your answer as to the attraction of being a Christian is Heaven? 

          But when you describe Heaven, it doesn't attract me. And it also doesn't seem real to me. So what else to you have? How can being  a Christian help my life right now?

          Also, about that spiel about the vastness of the number of stars, the statement said nothing about any of that stuff you listed off. All it said was "the vast number of stars." You read WAY too much into it.

          And it wasn't me who said I was educated. It was you. Because you're so kind. remember?

    2. profile image0
      cosetteposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      this absolutely in no way is intended to be disrespectful, ok? i just have to say that sounds really boring. ETERNITY?

      doing what, exactly?

      are dead people there now? and if they are, what do they do all day up there? there is no sin, so they probably aren't having sex, smoking cigarettes, drinking, or anything like that.

      are there trees there? animals? i would love it if there were at least bunnies to care for, and meadows filled with wildflowers.

      do people have wings and halos as depicted in popular art? do they wear robes, or just regular street clothes? do they listen to music or watch movies or anything like that? or do they just float around in clouds day after day?

      because if that is the case, i'd just as soon be dead forever.

      1. profile image0
        wordscribe41posted 8 years ago in reply to this

        I'm with you sister!!!  lol  Plus, none of my best friends or family will be there.  What a drag...

        1. profile image0
          cosetteposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          omg haha!!! me neither...mine will all be you know, down there in that place with all the fire and brimstone wink

      2. Valerie F profile image60
        Valerie Fposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        You know, forget pop culture. Most Biblical references to Heaven compare it to one big eternal party. No mention is made of any eternally bored souls with nothing to do but strum harps and float around. Plus, playing a bit of harp myself, I don't appreciate the implication that playing the harp is boring. tongue

        1. profile image0
          wordscribe41posted 8 years ago in reply to this

          I think the harp is so beautiful.  I've always admired this instrument...  It must take your finger a lot of getting used to at first, though, huh?

          1. Valerie F profile image60
            Valerie Fposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            I've had a harder time getting used to playing guitar than harp, actually. The only thing I find tricky are fast scales. However, I look forward to that not being so much of an issue. And of course I practice.

            1. profile image0
              wordscribe41posted 8 years ago in reply to this

              I tried to teach myself guitar (unsuccessfully) a little while back and my fingers were literally bloody.  Whoops.  I'm just not naturally inclined musically, but I REALLY wish I were.  I have such respect for that natural talent.  How relaxing it would be.  I have the joy of listening to a neighbor out strumming his guitar on nice evenings, totally changes my mood.  smile

  7. Deeche2 profile image61
    Deeche2posted 8 years ago in reply to this

    Yeah I think I may have some answers.  I believe it may be a way of helping you with structure in your life.  Everyone does not have a means of breaking the deep issues down so there is religion of Christianity.  Be it whatever religion you choose or your legacy chooses for you.  We do need a belief of some sort, dont you think?

  8. Pathway77 profile image56
    Pathway77posted 8 years ago in reply to this
    1. Pathway77 profile image56
      Pathway77posted 8 years ago in reply to this

      dae fair bear

      1. profile image0
        wordscribe41posted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Huh?  Say what?

  9. Jerami profile image74
    Jeramiposted 8 years ago in reply to this

       Christianity as it has metamorphosed for almost 2000 years has become  too confusing for anyone to understand. 
       We would have to (mentally) go back in time.
       I would set up a blind date for the two of you.
       I would give you a brief history of the prophesies concerning his first arrival in town. I would give ya all the gossip concerning everything that he said.  Those words that are written in red letters in my bible are critical in knowing who he is and how he felt.
       If you do not know how a person really feels you do not know him. If you do not know him you can not have a relationship with him. I will reassured you that you do not have to have a relationship with him to receive salvation though. You can choose to take that home with you that same day.
      I would suggest that you do not settle for the least that he has already given you (salvation). I would also suggest that you do not pitch this gift in the trash when you get home.
      The better that you get to know him, the more you will want to see him again. You will begin to feel more comfortable and less vulnerable. As the relationship progresses you will pitch all of your cares into the trash can.  You will loose your fear of death because you will know that when you die, (everyone does someday), you will have a place to go (HOME).
         BUT!!  I must warn you that you must loose your addictions  or you are not going to enjoy being there. You will find it too boring there. In this life we are supposed to acclimate ourselves in such a way that we will actually LOVE it there. All others need not apply!!  You will be running away from home soon, cause you aren't happy there.
         This is why we shouldn't convince an atheist to go there if we could. God will have to change their heart,or it ain't going to work any way.  We can't do it. We only argue with the atheist as an exersise,to work out our unbelief. Believers should be concentrating on helping believers find the way.
        It is a much narrower path than most Christians want to believe that it is.   
        In answer to the origional question,  If you want to be convinced ???   Talk to God.

  • Valerie F profile image60
    Valerie Fposted 8 years ago

    I can't say why you should become a Christian. I can only speak for why I am. Once the existence of a deity was proven to my satisfaction, I investigated which religion's representation of the Deity best fits the criterion of omnibenevolence, stopping at nothing for the good of all except at the violation of our free will, and best exemplifies the the virtues we are supposed to practice- completely selfless love, justice balanced perfectly with compassion and mercy, wisdom, etc.,. I found that in Jesus Christ.

    1. Fairbear profile image54
      Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I suppose not all Christians are interested in sharing their faith with non-believers, or bringing them into the goodness of their discovery.

      1. Make  Money profile image67
        Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Nobody is goung to be able to covert you.  If you are interested you'd have to take that first step on your own.  I'd be more than happy to direct you in the right direction though.  It's not because of fear but the love of God.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          And hate for everyone else.

          Tell me how guilty the girls who have an abortion should be make money.

          How many unwanted children have you adopted again? I forget the answer...........

        2. Fairbear profile image54
          Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Ok, I'll accept your offer. Go ahead. Direct me in the right direction.

          1. Make  Money profile image67
            Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Here's are a couple of web sits to the RCIA course.  That will get you started.  If you need more help just ask.
            http://www.ecatholic2000.com/rcia/rcia.shtml
            http://catholicgirl.faithweb.com/rcia.htm

            God bless you Fairbear
            Mike

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Ooooow dear. Is that the best you can do? You do own a bible right? I remember you saying you get all your knowledge from online versions, but I assume you have actual real one?

              1. Make  Money profile image67
                Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                I don't remember saying that I get my limited knowledge just from online Bibles Mark.  Catholics follow tradition as well as the Bible.  Yeah I own a couple of Bibles, the New Revised Standard version {Catholic edition}, a King James Bible, I still have a Jehovah Witness Bible that was also given to me, but my favorite is the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible.  That's why I generally quote from the online version of it, http://www.drbo.org/

            2. Fairbear profile image54
              Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah, I do need more help. Those sites are rather impersonal. I need a personal guide. That's what I was hoping you'd be.

              1. Make  Money profile image67
                Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Okay you need a sponsor to go threw RCIA.  From the first web site that I posted above it asks the question "Can I choose a sponsor or godparent who lives far away?"  Here's the answer the site gives.


                So I think you can see that a sponsor close by you would be better than somyone who lives far away like myself.  Maybe you can go to a local parish to ask the priest if he can recommend a sponsor for you.  Where do you live Fairbear?  Maybe me or someone else here may know someone in your area that would be your sponsor.

                1. Fairbear profile image54
                  Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh, so your guidance amounts to you sending me to someone else for guidance. This isn't what came to mind when you said you'd be glad to direct me in the right direction. I was hoping for something more personal from you. Oh well. My bad.

                  1. Make  Money profile image67
                    Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    If we lived in the same area I would be more than happy to be your personal sponsor.  I live in southern Ontario, Canada east of Toronto.  Do you live anywhere close?  If not and if you are serious I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for you to find a sponsor.  A sponor would be taking the RCIA with you so they would also be renewimg their faith.  It's considered a privilege to be a sponsor by most.

  • profile image0
    Crazdwriterposted 8 years ago

    If you don't want to convert then that is up to you. I am Roman Catholic and I don't go around trying to force my religion down anyone's throats because to me that isn't what God wants. I say be yourself, be whatever religion you want or if you aren't then don't be religious but it is up to you. I like to discuss relgion but if people get nasty about it I walk away. No point in arguing who is right and who is wrong. You follow and belieive what you want and I'll do the same.

  • profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 8 years ago

    I was born a Christian and do believe in what i was taught. i have put a lot of faith in the fact that this world is not how it should be.  That god and christ are going to make things better in their time.  The way things are in the world i am not changing now

  • Precious Pearl profile image76
    Precious Pearlposted 8 years ago

    I can only tell you that it was God's love that drew me not fear.  I would like to recommend a book to you called A Case for Christ by Lee Strobel.  And from what I can remember of the book, there are no fear tactics just his experience with trying to disprove the Bible.  It may answer some of your questions better than I could ... Whether you believe or not, that is totally up to you.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      The bible has been dis-proven. There is nothing provable in it. You can stop pretending now. Awww....

      1. Precious Pearl profile image76
        Precious Pearlposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Dear Mark,

        On every thread I read you ... you are sadly mean spirited.  You can't resist hurting people with your words.  I feel sorry for you.  What a shame that such a talented writer can only use his talent to be verbally abusive.

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          I think you will find on honest examination that Mark usually responds only when someone has made an assumption of fact with no evidence, or an assumptive statement that offers a religious threat. smile

        2. Valerie F profile image60
          Valerie Fposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Okay, now let's be perfectly fair here. Mark writes some very good stuff about real estate markets. He's not all about being verbally abusive.

        3. profile image0
          sneakorocksolidposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Don't get mad at Mark hes struggling with his gender identity issues.

        4. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Dear Precious Pearl,

          You are sadly condescending if you think me telling the truth is being mean spirited.

          U think you need to look up the word "abusive," because telling you that your beliefs are irrational and there is no truth in the bible does not really constitute abuse.

          How did I hurt you?

          I believe you owe me an apology.

          1. Valerie F profile image60
            Valerie Fposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Stating your opinion as fact is not the same as stating the truth. If you said, "I don't see any truth in the Bible," or "I don't find your beliefs rational," that is would be the truth, a true and perfectly fair statement of your opinion, and I don't think there is anything offensive about that.


            Similarly, I also don't like arguments from the religious side that state interpretations of whatever scripture as facts or as if everyone in their religion interpreted their books the same way.

            I feel that calling people irrational and their sacred books devoid of truth is unnecessarily confrontational, as is calling anyone names like "mean-spirited" or ridiculing their beliefs. It forces me to remind myself that the most negative fringes, atheist or believer, don't represent the majority. Along with the not-so-nice, I find great people in both camps. I can freely admit that, and I hope you can too.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              I was not talking to you. But just listen to the clap trap you have just said. And trust me - all atheists think your beliefs are irrational.

              Because they are. That is the truth. Not my opinion.

          2. Precious Pearl profile image76
            Precious Pearlposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Dear Mark,

            Because my Jesus has taught me that if I offend you I should apologize whether or not I agree with you, I do apologize to you.  Your truth is not my truth so I am not being condescending.  Now, in answer to your question ...when you talk about Christians and the Bible the way that you do it hurts me ... Do you know the story of Saul later called Paul.  He was not only persecuting Believers but killing them.  He had what is called a "Damascus Road" experience in that Jesus met with him and asked, "Saul, Saul why do you persecute me?"  Saul's answered him and said, "When have I done such a thing?"  Jesus answered him by telling him by persecuting those who have believed.  Even though you have directed few comments to me directly ... you have to those who I call brothers and sisters in Christ.  If you are truly a Believer you are hurt by what may hurt others not just yourself.  And yes, I hurt not only for Believers but Non-believers as well ... which includes you.  I don't appreciate it when people are mean to anyone.  I am sure that you think that this kind of caring is weak but I call it love and so did my Jesus.  He went to the cross even for those that hated and still hate Him.

            And I am done responding because I know that this can only lead to more ...

      2. atomswifey profile image59
        atomswifeyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Nothing provable?

        Taken from:
        http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html

        striking evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. A sampling of these would include:

        Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)

        Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)

        Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)

        Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)

        Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)

        Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27)

        Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11)

        Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6)

        Gravitational field (Job 26:7)

        And then here:

        Predicted ca. 760 BC: Amos predicts Israel would be restored as a nation and would never be uprooted again (Amos 9:15)–Fulfilled in 1948.


        Predicted ca. 589 BC:  Ezekiel tells about the destruction of the great city Tyre (Ezekiel 27).–Fulfilled in 1291: Muslims destroy the city.


        Predicted ca. 430 BC: Malachi prophesies that Yahweh’s name would be honored by the Gentiles (pagans) (Malachi 1:11).–Fulfilled 1st century AD to the present:  Pagans worldwide have forsaken their paganism and have confessed that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.


        There are many religious books in the world that have many good things to say. But only the Bible has fulfilled prophecies with more fulfillments to come


        Mark, turn to Psalm 22 and read verses 12-18. And then tell me what you think it is about

        1. Fairbear profile image54
          Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          "striking evidence" is hardly the same thing as proof. Not by a long shot.

          I could say that the hole in my back yard is "striking evidence" that Godzilla walked through there, and that would be perfectly true. Someone else could disagree and say that it is "striking evidence" that King Kong walked through, and they too would be telling the truth. It's "striking evidence" of whatever you want it to be. But proof is something else entirely.

          your "striking evidence" is just funny.

          1. atomswifey profile image59
            atomswifeyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            The striking evidence is "oh wise and eduucated one", is that those prophesies were made obviously prior to the events actually happening and too prior to the science being applied to it, yet they knew!
            Yes you can say anything about the hole in your backyard if you want to,
            But its because you already see the hole, the hole is there for you to comment on.

            These events took place
            some 2000 years in some cases AFTER they were already told about in The Bible!

            And not only that, but you can think about this, How long did it take "science" to figure out our earth was round???
            Yet it was told it was round 2000 years or more prior to those findings! How did the men in the Bible KNOW it was round?

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Deary me - the earth is not round. LOL

              It is an oblate spheroid. lol

              I would hazard a guess that if I knew nothing and I stood on a hill and looked in every direction and saw that the earth carried on in every direction and when I walked in all these directions it kept going - I would jump to the conclusion that it is round. And flat. lol

            2. Fairbear profile image54
              Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              this just got funnier.

              Oh, thank you for acknowledging my wisdom and education. That was kind of you.

              1. atomswifey profile image59
                atomswifeyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Can you answer those questions?
                I mean being that you are so very educated, would you mind taking an educated guess then?

                1. Fairbear profile image54
                  Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  You can find fulfilled prophesies wherever you want to find them. I could make a prophesy right now off the top of my head, then if it came true a thousand years from now would you call me God's messenger? I hope not.

                  You should do some studying about the prophets in what you call the Old Testament. They went to school to become prophets. There were a lot more of them than appear in the scriptures, and most of their prophesies never came true. But I guarantee you could construe them as having been fulfilled in any number of ways. It's just according to what you want to believe.

                  As for the scientific stuff. That's the funny part. Come on. You don't have to be a scientist to know the earth is round. Just look at the sun and moon. Duh.

                  And here's my favorite one: "vast number of stars."  are you serious?!  "Oh my gosh, they knew there were lots of stars way back then! That must mean the Bible is true!!" 

                  The other ones are equally hilarious.

                  You gotta ask why Christians take these laughable measures to show "evidence" of their beliefs.

                  1. atomswifey profile image59
                    atomswifeyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    What prophecies in the Old Testament did not come true fairbear?
                    Name me one!
                    Oh there are those in the New Testament, Revelation which have not as of YET. And too isn't it funny that way back over thousands of years ago they knew about radiation fall out, hmm funny that is as it hadn't been invented yet!

                    And oh yes fairbear, the relevance of stars is very important as are the numbers of them
                    Stars are able to produce nuclear energy through the formation of deuterons. Without this critical process, no star would produce enough sustained energy to support life on any planet orbiting around it. Deuterons are vital to sustaining the sun’s thermonuclear reaction, which provides sufficient energy to sustain life on earth.

                    But I thought one soo very educated as you would know this.

                    Again, prior to this science of knowing how stars were and are vital in sustaining life on any planet yet alone our own, How is it that men of the Bible knew this as to make it vital to write into the Bible pertaining to the stars as they relate to creation and life on earth?

            3. profile image0
              cosetteposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              you know, i hate to say this, but i am getting annoyed with these constant attempts to trivialize scientific achievements. this world would SUCK without them, and we would still be in the freaking dark ages.

              the Bible is the greatest work of fiction ever written. why it is considered the 'word of God' instead of other scriptural texts is beyond me.

              and if you want to talk about prophets and predictions, Nostradamus predicted all sorts of modern day events - is he a prophet? or just a fraud?

              1. atomswifey profile image59
                atomswifeyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Unlike the truly inspired Biblical prophets, who would see visions, have dreams or hear God’s audible voice without the aid of material objects, the methods of predicting the future used by Nostradamus is of the occult and, therefore, clearly forbidden by God.

                And his "predictions" have not come true, it is mans interpretation into his writings that make such claims.

                It is not mans interpretations into what the true prophets of the Bible wrote.
                In the Bible we see all of prophecies, every single one in the Old Testament have come to pass and are still coming to pass.

                Did Israel become restored as a nation? Yes it did in 1948
                But you want more specifics:
                Yahweh
                Who is Yahweh?
                Jesus Christ/God
                Now how do you explain all the over 300 predictions/prophecies of Jesus in the Old Testament that came true?

                How do you suppose that it was predicted about the crucifixion prior to crucifixion being in use or even invented?

                But I am not going to debate the validity of the Bible with any of you any more.

                "Those that have eyes will see and those who do not will not see"

          2. PhilD41 profile image62
            PhilD41posted 8 years ago in reply to this

            This one I can make easy for you.  You won't ever find proof.  Just won't happen.  I am pretty sure that any "proof" that any Christian can give will be up for interpretation.  There is nothing about Christianity that is in-the-lab verifiable and provable.  However, the evidence is very strong and for those that have believed, enough to stake their life on.  So, if it is proof you are wanting, well it is a waste of time.

            1. Fairbear profile image54
              Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              She called that stuff proof. I was just showing her that it wasn't.

      3. profile image53
        finley4posted 8 years ago in reply to this

        really...where's your source?

  • profile image0
    pgrundyposted 8 years ago

    Most of the people I know personally who converted to Christianity did so because they had children and wanted to meet other parents, go to picnics and pot lucks, and teach their kids 'morals'. I know half a dozen people who actually went "church shopping" simply because they had a kid and wanted to act like their imagined version of the American Perfect Family. Most people are not very deep. That's enough for them.

    But I also know individuals who convert to Christianity because they have a religious experience that is powerful, emotional, and weird--They don't know what to do with the experience, and someone comes along and tells them it means they are supposed to be Christian. Sometimes they believe that for awhile and then realize that's not what it means. Sometimes they believe it permanently.

    Why don't you write some hubs about what YOU think instead of provoking people into an argument?

    I mean, you still have zero hubs.

    What's that about? smile

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      First, let me dig out a calling card....I know .....it's ....here.......I've got to quit wearing boxers....Ah here it is! Ok! How long did it take you to rationalize that? We go to to church because we have kids and we want the appearance of being normal? As apposed to being a Godless commie, sorry, enlightened progressive.

    2. Fairbear profile image54
      Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      If you didn't want to argue with me then you wouldn't have posted anything. Evidently, you did want to argue. So who are you to question me arguing? Stay away if you don't like it. Everyone who comes here knows what they're getting into.

      I'm not interested in writing hubs. Not at the moment anyway. I much prefer the forums. Is there some rule against that?

  • Eaglekiwi profile image72
    Eaglekiwiposted 8 years ago

    Fairbear might be another bear too, which really isnt fair at all  now is it?

    1. Fairbear profile image54
      Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Huh?

      1. profile image0
        wordscribe41posted 8 years ago in reply to this

        How much wood would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?  Huh?

        1. profile image0
          sneakorocksolidposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          No more pot for you little girl!

          1. profile image0
            wordscribe41posted 8 years ago in reply to this

            I know Eaglekiwi and I'm sure she got my joke.  What a nice little statement you wrote.

    2. PhilD41 profile image62
      PhilD41posted 8 years ago in reply to this

      LOL, My son loves that little rhyme. That was perfect. :-)

  • tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 8 years ago
  • mivelleza profile image61
    mivellezaposted 8 years ago

    Fairbear,I can't explain what I felt while reading your post.I instantly felt moved to answer.I'll keep it simple.I am a christian. Religion is what separates us from God.In any faith.See its not a set of external rules to live by that will make you religously right before God.Its all about relatonship not religion see,many can be in the chistian faith and lead a miserable unhappy life religiously attending church singing the right songs,reading the word etc..but relatioship changes you.Theres got to be transformation! Something that Impacts you in such a way that it leaves no doubt in the inner most part of you bringing you to such a conviccion of Love leading you to surrender to your Creator. You begin falling in Love with Him.It is amazing! its an experience one cannot explain!See when your in Love you willingly submit to what we all know as 'religion'.It is a joy.Were actually submitting to Him and we start living Him which is Love which brings peace that surpasses any understandig! I grew up in church but I didnt start having a relationship with Him until I was in my late teens early twenties but I have since deepened my relationship with Him.You should never never stay as you are never.God is a God of changes who is the same yesterday today and forever.Believe me that makes complete sense.When you coe i contact with Him theres no way that you will stay the same.He says.Jeremiah 29:11-13"For I kow the plans I have for you",declares the Lord "plans to prosper you and not to harm you,plans to give you a future and a hope.Then you will call to me and come and pray to me,and I will listen to you.You will seek Me and find Me. When you seek Me with all your heart".
    Jesus said"I am the Way the Truth and the Life ,no one comes to the Father but through Me.
    I thought this would be shorter.

  • Fairbear profile image54
    Fairbearposted 8 years ago

    Several of you have stated that Christianity is all about love. But that's nothing special. You can find love in lots of places. Why is Christian love so much better?

    1. profile image0
      \Brenda Scullyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Because god is love that is why..... in my humble opinion, and that is what the bible teaches

  • mivelleza profile image61
    mivellezaposted 8 years ago

    My battery is about to go out ,will have to get back to u later ,heres my first hub that will help a bit. <no links please>

    1. mivelleza profile image61
      mivellezaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Okay fixed my battery wire charger,went to work ....etc..anyways,sorry about that link,I'm really new here,but I'll make sure not to do it ever again.I'm going to read every bit of detail about hubpages,I'm going to get to the bottom of this.lol.but I am though,I didn't mean any harm or to break the rules,I was trying to get in a quick response before battery died and still offer my sincere response.Thanks hubpages!

  • Fairbear profile image54
    Fairbearposted 8 years ago

    Just not what I had in mind. I was hoping you could just take me through the points of your faith step by step. That's all. I'm not at the point of wanting to go through some extensive program. That's a few steps ahead of where I'm at. Understand?

    But thanks for the thought. That's kind of you.

    No, I don't live anywhere near you. WIsh I did, though. I'd love to live up there in that area.

  • Make  Money profile image67
    Make Moneyposted 8 years ago

    Yeah no problem Fairbear.  Your welcome.  Also here's a link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church if you are interested.
    http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

  • JYOTI KOTHARI profile image70
    JYOTI KOTHARIposted 8 years ago

    Love is the most interesting feature of Christianity. However, in most of the cases people are converted into Christianity by greed and fear, especially in the third world countries.
    Europeans have reigned most parts of the world for three to four centuries. Most of the rulers were Christian and they used their might to convert people into Christianity.

    Thanks,
    Jyoti Kothari

  • chrissie123 profile image61
    chrissie123posted 8 years ago

    Well here goes. I would never try to convert someone its soooo wrong!!! I hate when people say I wanna convert you like what you believe is wrong. I'm agnostic/a person of science. Religion is a personal preference no one should ever be forced into it. There is no right or wrong religion as long as its right to you don't let people feed you crap about converting.

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Even tho you use chemicals to dye your hair, that doesn't count count you as a person of science, sweetie. It's a belief in a higher power than your hairdresser. When you die if you only aspire to go to the great salon in the sky, I say go girl!

  • mcbean profile image76
    mcbeanposted 8 years ago

    These forums always get messy when people try to argue with believers.

    Believers go into any discussion without entertaining the slightest possibility that their faith may be a social construct and there may in fact be no deity.

    I personally am not a believer, but I do not find it impossible to see the other side. There IS a chance there is a god or gods, but I find that chance to be small enough to live my life the way I do.

    This rigidity of people of faith, seems to be one of the main reasons atrocities are done in the name of various gods.

    Yoy can be a believer and still keep an open mind.

    How about it people.

    Any believer willing to admit there is a possibility (however small) that there is no God and we just ended up here by a combination of random events and the passing of a very long period of time?

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      How Long? The point you miss or don't get is we do see both sides and we like the one we're on. The key to atrocities is they're are done by man not God. So, that means we could all use alittle love and guidence to keep us from killing each other. Could you be wrong? And if you are do you think you're scoring points with God by being thick as a brick?

  • Shaul Stein profile image55
    Shaul Steinposted 8 years ago

    Here is what The Lady_E was referring to fairbear, bottom of page 2.

    Shaul Stein wrote:
    I still wish he would answer his own original question.

    "Or is there some other explanation?"

    Fairbear wrote:
    My answer to this is that there is no explanation. Christianity is a flawed religion.


    So perhaps she is wondering why would you be interested in a "flawed religion" at all? What are your motives.
    On a scale of 1-100...your sincerity?

    And who can blame someone for asking, given that you seem to hate the very thing you inquire about man. smile

    1. Lady_E profile image82
      Lady_Eposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Cheers Shaul, that's all I was getting at but he seemed to think I was insulting him, even though they were his comments. smile

  • Fairbear profile image54
    Fairbearposted 8 years ago

    You're right to say that I hate it.
    But wrong to assume I am insincere.

    1. Shaul Stein profile image55
      Shaul Steinposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Never said you were, I just asked "if" you were and gave you a scale to pick from man. smile

  • earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    That's not being perfectly fair, thats called being personally abusive. lol

    1. Valerie F profile image60
      Valerie Fposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      How do you know I wasn't being sincere about Mark having written some good hubs? Or that, if I was making fun, there was any malice in it?

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        selective reading of your own post Valerie, not very honest! smile

  • earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    I wish I had spent more time in the forums when I first started. It gives you a better feel of the people you wish to interact with smile

  • mobilephone guide profile image57
    mobilephone guideposted 8 years ago

    why? you can be a Christian and be another if you don't like it. Islam though is different.

  • Shaul Stein profile image55
    Shaul Steinposted 8 years ago

    I will answer this question for the sake of anyone who comes in here because of the topic posted.

    I am well aware that Ha' Mashiach Yahshua (The Messiah Jesus) did NOT come to start a new religion and call it Christianity, nor to revive an old one. He is The King of the Jews and did not deny it when questioned by Pilate. The relationship Elohim Echad (Gods who are One~Alone, in purpose and deed) wanted to have with mankind was never a religion, rather it was closer than your spouse in it's intimacy, deep and very spiritual, based faith in The Creator~Father. It was always very simply..."Listen to my voice and follow my instructions"...just like a parent / child relationship, with a loving parent and a child who constantly questions said parents authority and leadership to no end.

    The relationship was multifaceted and included the bride / bridegroom intimacy too. Also one of Military Commander and His army.

    When I was apprehended some 30 years ago, I was involved in a Christian Church and after a time I was invited to a Messianic Jewish Congregation and kept going back as they gather on Shabbat (Sabbath) *the day for Christians being changed to Sunday having ignored the 4th commandment*...and I attended both for a long time. Messianic Jewish Congregations (MJC) are comprised of Jews and Goyim (translates to "nations" / "peoples") who believe in The Messiah as already come to earth the first time and will return again.

    I noticed that they "MJC" (Messianic Jewish Congregations) sounded and acted much different than Christianity in way to many ways to mention here. The basic thing that I noticed is that they did not have a different Messiah than the one that I read about in my own study. He did not sound like an American Messiah with a Western mentality and outlook as they spoke of Him and His teachings. They had an understanding of Hebrew and it's idioms so they did not come up with whacked out and confusing interpretations. It's like, if I went to another culture and came back and tried to Westernize it for everyone, then someone came who was from that culture and saw what we called "culture X"...they would laugh hysterically, why?, because I'd be trying to pass this off as authentic.

    I noticed they just read the scriptures and taught what they said and did what they said. If it was written to have a holy~day on a certain date, they did it, if it said to have a feast on a certain date, they did, and the names they used to refer to these days and feasts were not changed from the original, I mean, what for? Pesach (Passover) is not Easter and the original words for all the Jewish Holy Days were left untranslated until the 1,500's. I noticed to that "Communion" was taught to me by Christians as what happen at "The Last Supper"...ask any Jew and they will tell you that the meal they had was a "Pesach Meal" just like the one in Exodus when the death angel "Pass~over" the houses that had believers inside.
    There are 4 full cups of wine, not grape juice in a thimble served.

    Anyways, moving along, I found that these MJC really tried to stick hard and fast to just following the scriptures and not making it into something it did not say. Even the names they use for God, Messiah, Jesus, Holy Days, etc...were just left intact. I mean, look at say Cinco~De~Mayo, who runs around calling it "5th of May"...how stupid that would sound. Same thing with changing the names of Hebrew / Jewish named stuff, just leave it alone!!

    If you say you think Christianity is flawed and Judaism sounds more realistic and you "really are sincere", then perhaps finding a MJC and attending for a while will get you some more answers. I cannot speak for all of them individually, so you will just have to go if you wish man.  big_smile

    You said that you found "annihilation" a lot more acceptable than "eternal torment"...I believe in that and I am a Messianic Jew. Cannot say all of them do because maybe some of them have swallowed that belief. I just know what the term "destroy the soul and the body" means in the original language and is not pretty, it means "abolished"...simple.

    As far as fear goes...what fear? I have no fear, my scriptures say "PERFECT LOVE CAST OUT ALL FEAR" and it means just what it says.

    It also says "fear of God" (honor, respect, reverence, terrified) and the reason why is because if angels terrify the living crap out of men every time they appear, (if you've ever seen one you'd know what I mean) imagine if God showed up the utter terror one would have.

    I followed Messiah because He proved His love for me by giving His life for my life. "greater love has no man except that of laying down his life for his friends." Also, because He said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except through me."

    So after hearing all the other "religions" who said "all roads lead to God / heaven"...I said fine, I will choose the One who said He is the only way, because then, if they all lead to God / heaven and I pick Him, either way I make it and for sure with Him, if in fact He is the only way, then I am in, if He is not, then I am still in because "all ways lead to God / heaven".....you see? big_smile

    By the way, Messiah is THE ONLY ONE who gave His life as a ransom for many and no body else did. I'll pick the One who died for me over all the others who could not go that far just for a bunch of screwed up humans.

    I use to have all kinds of fears, now I have NONE !!!

    Shaul

    1. mobilephone guide profile image57
      mobilephone guideposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      basically, all non-muslims deserve to die. amirite

      1. Shaul Stein profile image55
        Shaul Steinposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Muslims? Who said anything about Muslims?
        Did you even read it?

        1. mobilephone guide profile image57
          mobilephone guideposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          yes, i didn't. i just went ahead and babble.

  • Shaul Stein profile image55
    Shaul Steinposted 8 years ago

    I know you did not read it because your time stamp is the same as mine.

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Ooooooh the number!!!! lol

      1. Shaul Stein profile image55
        Shaul Steinposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Gotta be some place in the counting eh?

  • torimari profile image67
    torimariposted 8 years ago

    I am glad those who have responded have given honest answers.

    I find the original post singed with sarcasm.

    Being an atheist myself, I've seen the same ploy pulled with atheists asking christians reasons why they shoud 'convert.' No problem asking and debating beliefs, but the op seemed insincere.


    We all have different roads of enlightenment whether Christianity, Hindi, Wicca or Atheism...etc. It's individual, and I don't expect to understand everyone's views, but respect it.

    Post rubbed me the wrong way. 'We' aren't all like that.smile

  • earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    Yep! smile

  • steffsings profile image81
    steffsingsposted 8 years ago

    Just for kicks... and To try out the most ridiculous, crazy, backwards, "FOOLISH" sounding religion in the world - People pledging their WHOLE LIVES to this weird 'crutch' like religion - filled with silly backwards believers all happy and stuff??? All calling each other brothers & sisters. All reading their stange little archaic books that are so contradictory & foreign. There they go again, putting their faith in that book - even when they seem to miss the mark - there they go AGAIN! getting back up & trying to make their lives fit on the "narrow" little road... BUT for some reason - "God" only knows why it keeps on growing and prospering in the face of it all??? MUSTA BE SOMEFIN' hidden away - deeply personal - so hidden that many will NEVER find it - except those millions who seek it? Christianity stuff - how insane & ignorant! Hmmmm.....1Corinthians 1:25 and beautiful - you're invited to the party though - invitations always there... (almost forgot - talking to the invisible world??? Christian's - something's up with them???)

  • atomswifey profile image59
    atomswifeyposted 8 years ago

    Taken from

    http://www.realtruth.org/articles/156-tu.html

    I challenge any of you to read the above article and find any fault with it.
    Below is the summary of their findings:

    Universe Analyzer, a software program popular on engineering campuses a few years back, helped in calculating the mathematical probability of an un-designed universe meeting the seven requirements for the existence of life.

    This software demonstrated how remote the probabilities were for all of these requirements to be met purely by random chance. One demonstration featured a total of 2,129 separate universe models. These models give a realistic picture of what the chances would be, given various requirements being met by random chance. Below is the list as to how many requirements were met.

    Models meeting 1 of the 7 requirements—404

    Models meeting 2 of the 7 requirements—8

    Models meeting 3 of the 7 requirements—0

    Models meeting 4 of the 7 requirements—0

    Models meeting 5 of the 7 requirements—0

    Models meeting 6 of the 7 requirements—0

    Models meeting 7 of the 7 requirements—0

    Notice that of the 2,129 separate universe models, only 404 met at least one requirement by random chance. (The only requirements for which the random number generation program were able to qualify were requirements 1, 3, 4 and 7.)

  • Valerie F profile image60
    Valerie Fposted 8 years ago

    Being a Christian has helped me in my life right now. I feel liberated by the idea that morality is established by a source better than human rather than imposed on us by our equals who only happen to think they're better. I also have a greater sense of wonder and gratitude for all that's around me, a greater awareness of the sacred, and several incentives to be a happier, more grounded, more loving person right now.

    I know some self-righteous person might say, "You shouldn't need an incentive." That may very well be the case. I shouldn't need  incentives. Nobody should. But we do every time we need to do the right thing and we just don't feel like it.

    1. Fairbear profile image54
      Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I hope you don't take this as disrespect. No one can argue with personal experiences. Those are yours and I have no place to discount them.

      But I wonder why you think morals have to come from someplace other than yourself. Mine don't come from other people who think they're better than me. I just have a natural sense of what is right and wrong, and it has served me well in life. I didn't learn it from any source. It's just instinct.

      In fact, that's where I have always thought biblical morals come from, and other written moral codes as well. It all comes from that natural human instinct that all of us have to lesser or greater degrees. That's just my outlook on it.

      1. profile image0
        sneakorocksolidposted 8 years ago in reply to this
      2. Valerie F profile image60
        Valerie Fposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        I don't take that as disrespect at all. The reason why I don't believe morals come from people is because people, myself included, have been wrong before.

        I don't believe there is such a thing as "just instinct" when it comes to humans, either. We have an ability to make choices. However, I do believe the fact that most of us are wired with a conscience (that some of us may choose to ignore or rationalize away) is proof that morality comes from the same source that created us (or caused us to evolve). Right and wrong isn't something we make up, and historically, the logical conclusion of people deciding to make up their own morality tends to be crime and tyranny. Because they decide that the morals that govern everyone else don't apply to such superior people as they imagine themselves to be.

        1. Fairbear profile image54
          Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          I do agree that my instinct has a deeper, greater source than just me. I know there is a fabric that connects all things, and that it is the source of this instinct, and other things as well like understanding and peace. This is just what I've derived from my own personal experiences.

          But I don't recognize that deeper source as my creator. Not a conscious creator anyway, with it's own personality separate from mine. It always seems to me like people go further to define what it is only because of what other people teach them, or because of what they might read in a book like the Bible. To me, defining that source as anything more that what is apparent and obvious would be diminishing it. I've read the Bible, and the description of God therein does not line up with the source I speak of.

  • dahoglund profile image81
    dahoglundposted 8 years ago

    Any religion is a matter of faith (belief) and you either believe of you don't. Nobody can force you to believe. It's one of these "if you don't know, I can't tell you" things.  I found William James somewhat useful in that regard.

  • profile image0
    annvansposted 8 years ago

    Yeah, just be like me.  I will go to any church that worships God, I do not really care which one I attend.  Actually I do not attend one on a regular basis.  I have been to Catholic, Baptist and other churches.  I went to a Christian school and I still know nothing.  I just go with whatever I believe in.  I believe in God and that is what matters to me.  I think you should do as you wish too.

  • Shaul Stein profile image55
    Shaul Steinposted 8 years ago

    @ fairbear

    Just wondering if you saw it?
    Or did I mis your reply? big_smile


    http://hubpages.com/forum/post/354267

    1. Fairbear profile image54
      Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah I saw it.

      Very interesting. But I don't think it's for me. I don't believe Jesus was anything more than an insightful man who taught people about his ideas. I take the view that the narrative gospels were not factual accounts of his life, but rather entirely fictional works geared towards a social agenda.

      It would take a whole lot to convince me otherwise, as I've done a lot of research on the matter, on both sides of the debate.

      I think Christianity did Judaism a horrible injustice by stealing their epic and history, claiming it for their own, and telling them they had it wrong all along. This is an age old issue. We don't have to get into it here. Just telling you where I stand.

      So if I were to convert to any religion, it certainly wouldn't be anything Christian, except maybe gnosticism, which doesn't necessarily focus on the person of Christ, but rather the self.

  • Becca's Blog profile image61
    Becca's Blogposted 8 years ago

    I can make a case for catholic Christianity on the basis of it's rich and diverse (dare I say entertaining) history and beautiful liturgy and music. Christianity based on the  balance of faith, scripture , reason , and tradition can add something of great value to a person's life. You can understand the secular world from the view point of a very broad church and come up with more reasonble understanding that does not negate the reality of God in the world. You can find your moral imparative to act in a positive way in the world in the lives of the many saints . Somewhere in the vast number of Saints their is one that you can relate too. You can be human in a church to understands humans commit petty sins. You can be a partial sinner and still at the end of the day be an important servant of a Risen ( and not petty) Christ. You can benefit from the spiritual guidance of not just scripture but from the many diverse personalities and practices of the early Church fathers. I could go on , but I hope I make my point .Christianity practiced in it's many more traditonal forms does not have to be stiffling or mean that you have to check your brain somewhere before you enter church. It has nothing to do with the vile evangelical faith of silliness so many Americans practice.

  • Fairbear profile image54
    Fairbearposted 8 years ago

    dae stands for

    delightful
    awesome      and
    entertaining


    that's my guess

  • Pathway77 profile image56
    Pathway77posted 8 years ago

    Dear Fairbear . I have been asked this question before by many people. And the real answer is that the root of Christianity is relationship. Not Fear. You see God is Love,he created us to be loved. He had so much Love in him that he created us so that he could love us.If you are a parent you create children so that you can love them and protect them and nurture them. God did the same. And as for the fear part.Hears an example.Lets say that you did something wrong and your parents found out. Wouldnt you be scared that you would get introuble from them. And wouldnt you want to be good so that you wouldnt get punished again. Thats how it is with God. Christianity isnt based on Fear it never was. The bible has been proven time and time again on the events that have taken place in history.I see you asked what can you find in our faith that you dont already have or cant find in another religion. Heres a fact . In every religion you will find Jesus in there teachings. But you will never find the teachings of any other religion in the bible. Because it is the only true book. Even in the Koran you will find Jesus spoken about. So if this man Jesus wasnt real how is he menchened in all different types of religions. Are these religions fake then? But remember no other religions are mentioned in the Bible.Because the bible is the only true book. You can find in our faith. Love,Guidence,Friendship,A father who will love you no matter what,Hope,a Father to whom you can ask for forgiveness a Father you can pray to when life has beaten you up, a Father you can give all your troubles and worries to from financial to sickness. Because all those things are not from God but from the world.And as a parent would you want to see your children suffer or would you do anything in the world to keep them safe. You have shelter in the Lord Fairbear.A catholic woman asked me one day why do you christians pray so much.And i asked her who do you call to when you are worried or fearful or in doubt or in need of an answer. she said God. I told her the only difference between you and me is that i have a relationship with God and i dont only pray when i need something i pray to give thanks to God. Thats where relationship comes into the oicture fairbear.You see i dont pray and then go out to the bar and get drunk. Because thats sort of a kick in the butt to God ya know.Im not gonna say god please help me then go and get drunk. Wheres the commitment to my prayer. I can go on forever. If you want to talk more just hit me back. I hope i answered asome of your questions.And if you already have everything that i just told you. Then maybee you are just fine

    1. Fairbear profile image54
      Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Judaism is mentioned very many times in the Christian Bible. In fact, the Christian Bible is composed mostly of Jewish scripture.

      It also mentions several pagan religions, and some gnostic.

      And if you think the Jewish scriptures mention Jesus, that's only a matter of opinion. Every instance in Jewish scripture that you might say alludes to Jesus can also be interpreted as alluding to someone else entirely.

      1. atomswifey profile image59
        atomswifeyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Really? So there was another saviour of the world who was born of a virgin and was tortured and crucified?
        Like who for example?

        1. Fairbear profile image54
          Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          This a 2-millennia-old debate between Christians and Jews. I side with the Jews, though I am not Jewish.

          I don't wish to replay the entire Christian-Jew debate with you just because you don't know the other side of it. If you really want to know, do some reading.

          But to paraphrase it for you, The messiah that the Jews look forward to has not yet come.

          And my thoughts of Jesus are that He was nothing more than an insightful man who taught people about his ideas. The New Testament gospels are not factual in any way at all. I know you disagree, but that's where I stand on the matter.

      2. Make  Money profile image67
        Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        This basically explains your threads then Fairbear.

        The Sanhedrin of Sadducee, at the time of Jesus did not even believe in the resurrection from the dead as we see in Acts 4:1-3 and Acts 5:26-33.

        Acts 4:1-3 "And as they were speaking to the people, the priests, and the officer of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them, 2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached in Jesus the resurrection from the dead: 3 And they laid hands upon them, and put them in hold till the next day; for it was now evening."

        Acts 5:26-33 "Then went the officer with the ministers, and brought them without violence; for they feared the people, lest they should be stoned. 27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them, 28 Saying: Commanding we commanded you, that you should not teach in this name; and behold, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and you have a mind to bring the blood of this man upon us. 29 But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers hath raised up Jesus, whom you put to death, hanging him upon a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand, to be Prince and Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins. 32 And we are witnesses of these things and the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to all that obey him. 33 When they had heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they thought to put them to death."

        I don't know if the newly re-established Sanhedrin believe in the resurrection from the dead or not?

        Fairbear do you believe in the resurrection from the dead?

    2. Valerie F profile image60
      Valerie Fposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      If she didn't have a relationship with God, she wasn't Catholic in good standing. The relationship with God is kind of required.

  • Valerie F profile image60
    Valerie Fposted 8 years ago

    Who says there will be fire and brimstone in "the other place?" Hasn't anyone seen the old Twilight Zone, even in reruns, or am I really that old?

    Anyway, that the TV show is a work of speculative fiction notwithstanding, it makes a pretty good point in that episode about the dead gangster. He goes to a place where every one of his most cherished earthly desires is fulfilled. The whiskey always goes down smoothly, the cigars are only the best, he always wins at poker, and the girls are all supermodels who worship the ground he walks on.

    Problem is, he realizes too late that he doesn't find it fun, so he tells this old guy who's been with him in all this that he doesn't think Heaven is for him. He'd like to try "the other place." The answer he gets is, "Don't you understand? You ARE in 'the other place.'"

    The closest pop culture ever got to portraying Heaven as actually vibrant and fun like an eternal party would be would have to have been on the Simpsons. Of course, the fact that it's labeled "Catholic Heaven" and everybody does a bit of Reel Around the Sun from Riverdance is rather beside the point. wink

  • profile image53
    finley4posted 8 years ago

    Mostly atheists and people secretly searching to justify their own beliefs(or lack of) troll these boards seeking out others who think like them so they can sleep at night.

    You don't get a lot of quality Christian views because they don't cast their pearls among swine.  (now you are gonna insult me for calling you swine)

    But I give some of you kudos for doing what you do...got to have SOME purpose in this world. 


    To the original poster...you have nothing to fear.  Fear is the feeling before the event that you are afraid of...once it happens, fear has no use.

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      It looks as you like to be among the swine, as you're here lol
      You should go and get a purpose in life instead of wasting your time among the swine, Don't you think ? big_smile

      1. profile image53
        finley4posted 8 years ago in reply to this

        ya i'd probably be more productive in life, glad i only commented on this thread...

    2. Fairbear profile image54
      Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      who's the troll?

      I admit I was being provocative, but I didn't go as far as you just did.

      To compare the two of us based solely on what can be seen on this page, you are the swine, not me.

  • kirwing profile image56
    kirwingposted 8 years ago

    Christianity makes you a better man or women if you embrace the son of God...Jesus Christ...that simple.

  • profile image0
    sandra rinckposted 8 years ago

    I bet Judas was murdered.

    1. Make  Money profile image67
      Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Matthew's historical account has it that Judas hung himself.

      Matthew 27:3-5 "Then Judas, who betrayed him, seeing that he was condemned, repenting himself, brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and ancients, 4 Saying: I have sinned in betraying innocent blood. But they said: What is that to us? look thou to it. 5 And casting down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed: and went and hanged himself with an halter."

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        But that is not the only account of Judas' death.  It also gives an account of Judas falling head first off a cliff with his guts splattered all over the ground. 

        It sounds suspicious to me.  Actually it sounds like the testimonies given by others are hiding something.  Other accounts can be said to be somewhat in agreement with each other ie: what happened at Jesus' crux etc. but there are two totally different accounts of Judas' death.

        Even the gnostic gospels give accounts that can be somewhat in agreement of Jesus' crux but non of them add up when it comes to what happened to Judas.

        1. Make  Money profile image67
          Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          That's Acts 1:18 Sandra.  Since you've brought it up I did notice that the King James Bible reads different than the Douay-Rheims Bible.  Thanks.  The Douay-Rheims Bible also says Judas was hung in Acts 1:18 but the King James Bible doesn't make it clear.

          King James Bible "Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. "

          Douay-Rheims Bible "And he indeed hath possessed a field of the reward of iniquity, and being hanged, burst asunder in the midst: and all his bowels gushed out."

          1. profile image0
            sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            So when I bring it up with some others they say that Judas could have hung himself and then fallen.  Then I ask how does a hanged man fall head first?

            1. Make  Money profile image67
              Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Them saying that Judas could have hung himself and then fallen is possible with the Douay-Rheims account of Acts 1:18.

              Anyway this part of Acts 1 is not really concerned with how Judas died but the fulfilling of a prophecy in Psalms.

              Acts 1:18-20 "And he indeed hath possessed a field of the reward of iniquity, and being hanged, burst asunder in the midst: and all his bowels gushed out. 19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem: so that the same field was called in their tongue, Haceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. 20 For it is written in the book of Psalms: Let their habitation become desolate, and let there be none to dwell therein. And his bishopric let another take."

              Then in Acts 1 the rest of the apostles pick Matthias to take Judas' place like the prophecy said.

              1. profile image0
                sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                But that seems to be an unreasonable assumption.  Anyone could have fulfill a prophecy.

                1. Make  Money profile image67
                  Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  Well according to the author of the Acts of Apostles, Luke, just about 2,000 years ago he must have thought that it fulfill the prophecy.  I'm sure there have been others since then that try to prove him wrong.  It's basically just who we believe, the Bible or some other recent writer.  I'll stick with the Bible.

                  1. profile image0
                    sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, the conclusion I drew was from reading myself and partial discussion with other "bible scholars".

  • Milla Mahno profile image53
    Milla Mahnoposted 8 years ago

    Yes, he was sis. You might enjoy reading this book if you can order it, it has the story of this murder and much more http://www.amazon.com/Master-Margarita- … 0679760806

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Sounds interesting enough sis but I sorta think that Judas is god. lol big_smile

  • Fairbear profile image54
    Fairbearposted 8 years ago

    Make Money:

    I don't believe that people come back to life after they die and are buried. Some people clinically die and come back to life under a doctor's care--like that movie Flatliners.

    But no. Once they are declaired dead and are buried in the ground, they don't come back to life.

    1. Make  Money profile image67
      Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks Fairbear.  Yeah like I mentioned, that explains the purpose of your threads.  I wonder if the newly re-established Sanhedrin believe the same?  If so the newly re-established Sanhedrin and possibly a lot in Israel are looking for a coming messiah that would bring them material wealth and power.  Clearly a different Messiah than the Christian belief in the second coming of Jesus Christ.

  • earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    "You don't get a lot of quality Christian views because they don't cast their pearls among swine."

    I haven't hear that for a long time. Nice though. Very religious to call people swine. smile
    Educated people with an opinion other than yours would be swine I suppose, if you were about 5 year old and neurotic. smile

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Well according to the Bible, Christians wouldn't have pearls to begin with.  Doh!

  • Make  Money profile image67
    Make Moneyposted 8 years ago

    Well the Psalms were written at the time of King David, quite a while before Luke wrote Acts.  Like Fairbear says on the previous page "This a 2-millennia-old debate between Christians and Jews."  But consider that Peter, Luke, all the apostles and the first 3,000 Christians from the first Pentecost were all Jews.  It's nice speaking to you again Sandra, it's been a while.  I'm going to break for supper, I'll check back in a while.

  • quietnessandtrust profile image60
    quietnessandtrustposted 8 years ago

    Yeah, it mentions pagan and gnostic religions and has nothing good to say about them!!

    Please do not take this wrong OK? smile
    I think you might have a bit of a misconception here. And you got it where everyone else does as well.

    The entirety of the scriptures is in and of itself Hebrew / Jewish and the Christians do not have a Christian Savior, they have a Jewish Savior and He is the KING OF THE JEWS and even said so Himself. He also said "salvation is of the Jews" and "I have come for the lost sheep of the house of Israel" and many other statements to clarify the fact. Paul was sent to the other nations, Messiah was not.

    I have seen you fairbear.....write posts that come off like you think no Jews believe in Jesus (that's not what they call Him though).....may I remind you?.....that all of Messiah's Talmudim (students / disciples / disciplines ones) were Jews, as well as the thousands and thousands who believed on Him while on earth and after He departed. You say that the scriptures can allude to someone other than Jesus? Well not so fast. He Himself pointed out scriptures that He said spoke of Him and in fact He said the entirety of all the Torah and The Prophets spoke of Him. Plus He fulfilled 360 prophecies about Messiah and not another man in history has done that, not even in the same ball park!!!

    This is why every single Jew that I know, and I know hundreds personally, that have accepted Jesus as their Messiah, this is why they believe, just the sheer overwhelming amount of them fulfilled by Him.

    Listen man, when a Jew confesses Jesus as Messiah, their entire family has a funeral for them and has nothing to do with them ever again. Maybe these believing Jews give it a little thought and research first...Ya Think ??? smile

    You can find a lot of them who do not believe and you could find thousands who do, so do not just pass it off as hog-wash please.

    If you want to go find your own personally custom tailored messiah, the go ahead, plenty do. Honestly I think no matter what anyone tells you, it remains for you do decide to answer the same question Pilate had to answer.....”what shall I do with this Jesus of Nazareth?”

    Alas, you have already made that choice, so why bother everyone with all your questions fairbear ??? smile

    1. Fairbear profile image54
      Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I'll tell you like I told a few others. If it bothers you so much, why don't you leave it alone?

      I don't want to say here what I really think of the "Jews" who accept Jesus, but still call themselves Jewish.

      But I will say that, yes, I do think it's hogwash. The same as you think what I believe is hogwash.

      The new testament gospels were crafted to fit nicely with the Jewish scriptures. That's all. They have no basis in actual history.

      That's my standpoint on the matter. I don't want to get into it. It could go on forever.

  • quietnessandtrust profile image60
    quietnessandtrustposted 8 years ago

    A bit of a correction is needed here sir.

    The first 3,000 Christians were Jews ?

    No sir, they were JEWS, not Christians. Jesus is NOT "King of the Christians"...let's call Him what HE SAID HE IS..."THE KING.....OF.....THE JEWS" and HE did NOT come to start a "new religion" and call it Christianity or HE would have said as much. smile

    Please notice that a JEW is a JEW, not a Christian sir. When a JEW comes to believe in Messiah, he or she does NOT become a "Christian".....they are a JEW still. smile

    They have accepted their Messiah and that does NOT change the fact that they are a JEW. Please understand this!

    They are a person who is a JEW who comes to saving faith in Messiah.
    When a Greek or Spaniard or Russian becomes a believer, they are simply that, a believer, they do not need to be branded with a "Christian" label or name tag.

    Not trying to beat you down about it, this is a fallacy among many.

    "I am a believer in Messiah"......is sufficient enough. big_smile
    And if we just said that, where would that leave you and your denomination?
    Or the thousands of other denominations?
    Labels are for clothing.

    1. Make  Money profile image67
      Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      There is no correction needed at all quietnessandtrust.

      The entire New Testament was written in the Greek language by people that were born Jews.  From Acts 2 we see at the first Pentecost the first 3,000 that were brought into the faith of Jesus Christ were Jews.

      Acts 2 4-11 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they began to speak with divers tongues, according as the Holy Ghost gave them to speak. 5 Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem, Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 And when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded in mind, because that every man heard them speak in his own tongue. 7 And they were all amazed, and wondered, saying: Behold, are not all these, that speak, Galileans? 8 And how have we heard, every man our own tongue wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Judea, and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, Egypt, and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, 11 Jews also, and proselytes, Cretes, and Arabians: we have heard them speak in our own tongues the wonderful works of God."

      Later in Acts 2 we see that 3,000 of these Jews were added to the faith of Jesus Christ in that day and were baptized, followed the doctrines of the apostles, received Holy Communion and persevered in prayer.

      Acts 2:39-42 "For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with very many other words did he testify and exhort them, saying: Save yourselves from this perverse generation. 41 They therefore that received his word, were baptized; and there were added in that day about three thousand souls. 42 And they were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles, and in the communication of the breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      From Colossians 3 we see nationality means nothing anymore in the one body of the elect of God.

      Colossians 3:11-17 "Where there is neither Gentile nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian nor Scythian, bond nor free. But Christ is all, and in all. 12 Put ye on therefore, as the elect of God, holy, and beloved, the bowels of mercy, benignity, humility, modesty, patience: 13 Bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if any have a complaint against another: even as the Lord hath forgiven you, so do you also. 14 But above all these things have charity, which is the bond of perfection: 15 And let the peace of Christ rejoice in your hearts, wherein also you are called in one body: and be ye thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you abundantly, in all wisdom: teaching and admonishing one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual canticles, singing in grace in your hearts to God. 17 All whatsoever you do in word or in work, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

      From Acts 11 we see that the disciples were first named Christians at Antioch.  Acts 26 as well as 1 Peter 4 also refers to them as Christian.

      Acts 11:26 "And they conversed there in the church a whole year; and they taught a great multitude, so that at Antioch the disciples were first named Christians."

      Acts 26:28 "And Agrippa said to Paul: In a little thou persuadest me to become a Christian."

      1 Peter 4:16 "But if as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name."

      Quote from Ignatius of Antioch.  There are other interesting quotes by Ignatius of Antioch on this page as well.  Ignatius of Antioch is one of the Fathers of the Church.


      But you are right quietnessandtrust, Jesus Christ did not come to start a "new religion".  There is a seamless transition from the Old Testament to the New Testament.  Aside from the ten commandments, the New Covenant that we received from Jesus Christ supersedes the old Levitical Laws.  As we have seen, some Jews accepted this but most did not.

      Also quietnessandtrust you say "They (a Jew) have accepted their Messiah and that does NOT change the fact that they are a JEW."  I agree.  The same way when a Greek or Spaniard or Russian becomes a believer in Jesus Christ they are still a Greek or Spaniard or Russian.  But as we see above in Acts 11:26, Acts 26:28 and 1 Peter 4:16 when they become a believer in Jesus Christ they are called Christians or part of the "one body of the elect of God", whether they are Greek, Spaniard, Russian or Jew.  When a Jew becomes a believer in Jesus Christ why would he or she not want to be called a Christian or part of the "one body of the elect of God"?  Nationality means nothing anymore.  When a person says "I am a believer in Messiah" it does not necessarily mean that person is a believer in Jesus Christ.

      The consolation for the Jews is that in the end days God will send Elijah (Elias) for the conversion of the Jews to the faith of Jesus Christ.  We can read this in Chapter 4 Malichi, Romans, Chapters 9, 10 and 11 and Revelation chapter 11 as mentioned on this web page that describes who the Chosen are.

      God bless
      Mike

      1. atomswifey profile image59
        atomswifeyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Amen!! smile

  • profile image53
    mikey9923posted 8 years ago

    Hey fairbear ..did u get my answer to you yestarday?

    1. Fairbear profile image54
      Fairbearposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Um...I must have missed it. I looked for it but couldn't find it. Send it again?

      I don't get any emails from this, just in case you tried to email me.

  • Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago

    atomswifey - I know you do not care for other people at all and have no respect for them - but - would you please stop filling these forums up by copying everything like that?

    This is not the first time I have asked you to do this - out of respect for the other users. But - if you do not start being respectful - I will complain to the administrators and do my level best to get you banned from the site.

    Thank you.

    1. atomswifey profile image59
      atomswifeyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      LOL ok Mark, you do that then. smile
      Being the master of Hubpages and all
      King of all you survey here.

      The arrogance you fill up here Mark is not enough to make me quit Hubpages nor is it enough to make them ban me.
      And if it does come to that (me getting banned) as a result of you complaining about something so completely trivial then I would walk away from it anyway and not return.

      Uhm one question here though,
      before you go accusing me of breaking any rules here
      Prohibited Use of Forums
      We take these points very seriously. Be aware that you may be banned from HubPages if you are found in violation.

      •Promoting hubs or other sites: This includes linking to any site that you have a vested interest in promoting, especially using affiliate links. To be on safe side we recommend that you establish a presence in the HubPages community before you post any links in the forum.
      •Signatures: Please do not sign your posts and especially do not sign your posts and include a link to another site. A link to your profile page is included with every post, and you can put information about yourself and links to sites you'd like to promote on your profile page.
      •Making Personal Attacks: debate and disagreements on points of substance are all right, but personal attacks, petty bickering, and thread hijacking will be dealt with swiftly.
      •Cross Posting: Please do not post the same message to more than one forum.

      I think you should look at the one about personal attacks Mark. I think calling someone stupid, ignorant, irrational, dumb, a liar, disrespectful to others etc. falls under that catagory! Those are very personal attacks are they not? And filling up the religion forum with them is strictly prohibited by the looks of it are they not?

      As well, I do not see where I in quoting whether I do that a lot or less often does not matter as does it not break any of those rules.

      Too,

      •Stick to the Topic: Please stay on the thread’s topic when replying to an existing thread. If you don’t see an open thread about something you’d like to discuss, please open a new thread.(Hmm, think that in quoting, I am doing just that)
      •Respect:Please maintain respect for other Hubbers, even if you don’t necessarily agree with them. Keep your language clean and don’t make personal attacks. (hmmm, don't think I'm guilty there Mark, what about you?)
      •Be Helpful and Supportive: We’re all here to learn, so please be constructive when providing feedback. (thanks for your feedback there Mark! LOL)
      •Spread the Word: Encourage Hubbers seeking help to visit the Forum to discuss. (Guess that excludes me right Mark? LOL)

    2. atomswifey profile image59
      atomswifeyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      LOL ok Mark, you do that then. smile
      Being the master of Hubpages and all
      King of all you survey here.

      The arrogance you fill up here Mark is not enough to make me quit Hubpages nor is it enough to make them ban me.
      And if it does come to that (me getting banned) as a result of you complaining about something so completely trivial then I would walk away from it anyway and not return.

      Uhm one question here though,
      before you go accusing me of breaking any rules here
      Prohibited Use of Forums
      We take these points very seriously. Be aware that you may be banned from HubPages if you are found in violation.

      •Promoting hubs or other sites: This includes linking to any site that you have a vested interest in promoting, especially using affiliate links. To be on safe side we recommend that you establish a presence in the HubPages community before you post any links in the forum.
      •Signatures: Please do not sign your posts and especially do not sign your posts and include a link to another site. A link to your profile page is included with every post, and you can put information about yourself and links to sites you'd like to promote on your profile page.
      •Making Personal Attacks: debate and disagreements on points of substance are all right, but personal attacks, petty bickering, and thread hijacking will be dealt with swiftly.
      •Cross Posting: Please do not post the same message to more than one forum.

      I think you should look at the one about personal attacks Mark. I think calling someone stupid, ignorant, irrational, dumb, a liar, disrespectful to others etc. falls under that catagory! Those are very personal attacks are they not? And filling up the religion forum with them is strictly prohibited by the looks of it are they not?

      As well, I do not see where I in quoting whether I do that a lot or less often does not matter as does it not break any of those rules.

      Too,

      •Stick to the Topic: Please stay on the thread’s topic when replying to an existing thread. If you don’t see an open thread about something you’d like to discuss, please open a new thread.(Hmm, think that in quoting, I am doing just that)
      •Respect:Please maintain respect for other Hubbers, even if you don’t necessarily agree with them. Keep your language clean and don’t make personal attacks. (hmmm, don't think I'm guilty there Mark, what about you?)
      •Be Helpful and Supportive: We’re all here to learn, so please be constructive when providing feedback. (thanks for your feedback there Mark! LOL)
      •Spread the Word: Encourage Hubbers seeking help to visit the Forum to discuss. (Guess that excludes me right Mark? LOL)

      1. Make  Money profile image67
        Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        For sure.

        1. Misha profile image74
          Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Please quote Mark calling YOU stupid, etc. I doubt you can find such a case. And calling your beliefs stupid does NOT constitute PERSONAL attack. smile

          1. Make  Money profile image67
            Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            I don't think that it would be too hard to find if someone wanted to spend a little time looking for Mark's personal attacks.  I'm sure anyone could find many many abusive cases.  But Misha are you saying that I can call atheism stupid, ignorant, irrational, dumb, a liar, disrespectful to others?  I won't anyways cause I think that would constitute a personal attack. smile

          2. atomswifey profile image59
            atomswifeyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Ok, smile
            My first day on the forums:
            ----------------------------------------------------------------
            1. Mark: Does it help when you get angry at your thick headed teenager for not understanding that you have all the answers?
            Perhaps if you banged them into him harder? I don't know - a whip? Would that help?
            ----------------------------------------------------------------
            Not personal there lol
            ----------------------------------------------------------------
            2. Mark: What could you have done with your life instead of pissing it away on this quest to spread something everyone is prepared to kill each other over?
            ----------------------------------------------------------------
            Pissing what away? Oh yeah, my life...Not a personal attack there lol
            ----------------------------------------------------------------
            3. Mark: Sorry you are too ignorant to understand the evolutionary process. Perhaps if you read a few more books?
            ----------------------------------------------------------------
            I am what? Ignorant? nope not personal there either! Man! Where did I ever get that he was attacking me personally?

            ----------------------------------------------------------------
            4. Mark: Evolution is a proven scientific fact. No question. The theory as to how exactly the process occurs is open to debate and there are several different theories. None of which attempts to dis-prove the fact of it happening.

            Sorry you are so ignorant of the difference.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------
            Hmm, ignorant am I again?
            ----------------------------------------------------------------

            Oh but then theres the personal attacks on others here as well

            Directed at the member, Valerie:
            Mark: Guess you haven't read this one then. Or you are too ignorant to understand it. Good luck joining the armed forces to kill people by the way. I hear that is a very christian thing to do and I hope it works out well for you. More souls for jesus. I assume any one you kill will go straight to christian heaven?

            Oh no, he is so very innocent of personally attacking people. He only attacks their beliefs.., uhm, ok

            I think this rather points out to the contrary. And in ones question as to why get so upset over it? I am not upset over those comments.
            I am upset over the threat he made against me. And just as public as he was in making it, I am being just as forward in answering Misha, and supplying these quotes as you requested them.

  • profile image0
    SirDentposted 8 years ago

    In reply to the OP. There is no belief system in the world that  makes the claims that Christianity makes. No other religion has a Savior who died for you by taking your place and receiving the punishment you deserve.

    There has never been a man debated as much as Jesus has been debated over the years. Even just the fact about debating about Him shows that something is different.

    Muhammad did not die for you, Buddha did not die for you, Krishna did not die for you, etc. . .

    His love is unconditional, but must be accepted. He loves you regardless of what you believe.


    To Atomswifey, many have been trying to get Mark banned from the forums ever since before I came here I am sure. Why let it bother you so much? When someone rejects the truth of the Word of God, they do not reject you, but they reject God Himself. It is best to let God deal with them.

  • quietnessandtrust profile image60
    quietnessandtrustposted 8 years ago

    With that kind of a statement, you probably are יְ ה וּ דִ י ם  ‎ Yehudim

    Mashiach never said "I have come to remove you from your Jewishness"

    Please do..."go on forever"... and expound on your vast understanding.
    It's     ((((( NOT )))))     as if your going to blow away mine.



    Really Mike?????

    The Messiah IS Yeshua Mashiach.....
    What else could one mean saying "I am a believer in the Messiah'?
    Obviously you think they can mean another messiah right?
    That He has not come yet.

    Well for your information when someone tells me "I believe in Jesus"
    I ask "which one?"

    The one the Catholics teach, The Mormons teach, The Protestants teach, The Jehovah's Witnesses teach, The Christians teach, The Baptists teach, The 7th Day Adventist's teach, The Church of Christ teach, The Joel Osteen Jesus, The TBN Jesus, The Bennie Hinn Jesus.....come on Mike, get a grip!!!

    Only One Messiah and He is King of The Jews...period!!!

    The Romans mocked them in calling them Christians !
    That does NOT make a Jew a Christian.




    Really????? Is that what they taught you in Catholic school Mike?
    Are you going to tell me Messiah spoke in Greek too?

    He was King of the Greeks too?

    Ever wonder why certain words could not be translated ?

    Left alone in the Hebrew right in the NT ? 

    Transliterated into English from Hebrew and NOT translated at all Mike ?

    Do you know how many Hebrew idioms are in the NT that could never have been written "originally" in Greek?

    I suppose you are now going to teach a Jew all of what you know about a Jewish Messiah too?

    Give it a rest man. big_smile

    Oh and which Leviticus Laws where done away with other than the sacrifices?


    Well now..........interesting that it is now closed.
    To much    going on!!!
    With Mark and The Wifey. lol

    Guess y'all beat the dead horse, resurrected it and     
    the hell out of it some more!!!

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