Is it right for Christians to convert tribal natives?

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klarawieckposted 14 years ago
For some time now, Christians have been traveling to the farthest, most remote places on earth with the intention of helping tribal people live a more civilized lifestyle. While committed to a charitable cause, they don't only change their way of life but take the initiative to convert them to Christianity. Do you think this is a wise idea? Please let us know your thoughts.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's a tough question to answer without looking at the history of the Missionaries of the mid 1800's when only after 30 years of Missionary rule over the South Pacific Polynesian Islands, Hawaii and Tahiti, over 90% of the native population were wiped out.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Christians love genocide and cultural destruction. They do it very well.
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  wilmiers77posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All roads to the truth lead to Christ Jesus. Others are just camped some where in the world relative to Christ Jesus, even Muhammad and Buddha. They are closer than lots of natives. The faith must accommodate our psyche which can be swanked or expanded unto the universal truth. I am a Christian; therefore, I believe that the Son Of God is the universal truth. It accommodates the psyche of technological genuis's who has taken the time to seek for Jesus's Truth. Muhammad and Buddha is going to eventually pick up camp and move into the Son Of God camp on their own volition. FAITH speaks.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, it is the other way round. Islam came after Christianity and is considered the final word of the Abrahamic god. Christ was recognized by Islam, but his teachings are now considered pretty much irrelevant when compared to Islam. Sorry, but it is the Christians who are supposed to "pick up camp and move" on.
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  pcoachposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure enough, coming from Islam that's how it would be interpreted. I mean really. Would the teachings be anything but that? See ya, Islam. We have no use for it in America.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  america is secular. it's roots are masonic. so technically, there is no room for religion in the context of what america stands for.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Masons are a Xian sect.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  America's no use for the drivel of Christianity, either. Too bad it doesn't pack up and move out.
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  Keith Phillipsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You just missed a history lesson. Pride blinded you to the facts.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There's no truth in 'Christ Jesus.' You're welcome to your belief, but it has no connection to reality no matter how much you yearn for it to.
  
  Observe.
  
  All roads to the truth lead to Tiamat the Dragon
  
  All roads to the truth lead to The Easter Bunny
  
  All roads to the truth lead to Santa Claus
  
  All roads to the truth lead to James Brown
  
  All roads to the truth lead to Odin All-Father
  
  All roads to the truth lead to the Frost Giants
  
  All the above statements, and myriad others in the same place, have the same validity as yours.
  
  Its one thing to make a statement like yours in church and another to make it where the readers are a diverse group.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend klarawieck
  
  I think the natives are allured into Christianity by tricks, cleverness and not be arguments. From the time of Paul; the Christianity has been doing it. Jesus was a straightforward man he never indulged in such things; his mandate from the Creator-God Allah YHWH was restricted to reform Jews only. Paul changed everything.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  klarawieckposted 6 days ago
  
  For some time now, Christians have been traveling to the farthest, most remote places on earth with the intention of helping tribal people live a more civilized lifestyle. While committed to a charitable cause, they don't only change their way of life but take the initiative to convert them to Christianity. Do you think this is a wise idea? Please let us know your thoughts."
  
  No, Christians haven't been traveling to help anyone but themselves. The reason they go is to destroy the culture, but they're not honest enough to make their intentions plain.
  
  Its 'might makes right' for them. They follow their 'father' 'Satan' well.
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  pylos26posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not only is it improper for Christians to invade foreign countries forcing their wares of religion upon other peoples but it is an act that should be punishable by law. These jerks calling themselves missionaries should be dealt with according to their own mandates, including beatings, etc. Imagine…it the child does not accept their religion, for whatever reason, they employ beating it into them. Missionary invaders that have lost their miserable lives conducting themselves in these acts of torture…were deserving.
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  emievilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't want to comment on whether it is right or not (even though that is the title). I just want to point out that it is not a current thing. They've been doing it for centuries! Heck, they even did that to us.
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  Keith Phillipsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If people convert to a religion because they feel that it is the truth, then it would be a choice. If a people for the sake of food, water and medicine go through the motions of religion to get it ,converting may simply be a matter of necessity and not at all about religion. There are people in so-called civilized countries that have not been converted yet live in the same house with others that practice religion. The assumption is that these are silly little people out in the boondocks who are incapable of making choice about what touches their soul. Or what will keep their children from becoming ill. It might just be a case of the christian being taken for a ride.
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WryLiltposted 14 years ago
I think it's just another way for Westerner's to say "You're uncivilized so you should be like us."
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The invading Christians were the ones who were uncivilized.
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SomewayOuttaHereposted 14 years ago
..i think people should be left alone...I read a hub by BardofEly...it was quite interesting...I can`t remember the tribe at the moment...but it was obvious the influence another culture had on them....whether it`s religion or whatever...it`s just culture creeping in; we should just leave things be....and we don`t....(we aka society)....we still haven`t learned....
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But do you think conversion happens naturally, or do you think that's their priority?
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i dont understand this conversion concept at all...i mean whom i worship, whom i dont worship is personal matter...
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That was the whole reason they went in in the first place.
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aka-djposted 14 years ago
If they believe in Jesus Christ, and end up in Heaven as a result, isn't that good?

If they end up in hell as a result of continuing in their "ungodly"idolatry, (or whatever), is that OK?

Believers are told to "preach the Gospel" ( GOOD NEWS!)The onus is on the hearer to either accept or reject the message.

I am TOTALLY against "converting" people by ANY form of coercion or threat!
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  so those who dont believe in christ end up in hell?
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes according to him & fundamental Christianity thats how it works. Unfortunately, Muslims say the same thing about Islam too. Then there are hundreds of other religions which mentions the same bait about their belief. As a result, this creates a fundamental problem for a normal human being specially who doesnt belong to any of those religion, since he has to study all of these religions in order to find out the truth in his short life time. If he doesnt study all of them, he might never know which one is actually more acceptable. Given the fact that each of these religions has hundreds of separate interpretations & broken sects it is almost impossible for a rational person to find out which could be the actual word of God. Even if a person devotes himself completely to such study it wont be enough. He might have to give up his family, friends, job & all other activities to find the result of his huge subject material called - 'World religion' . Even after such comprehensive study for full life time, the possibility is 99.99% that the person wont be able to reach a 100% acceptable answer in the field of religion & wont be able to prove that One particular faith is right while other belief systems are wrong...because the faith system doesnt walk in a rational way.
  
  The Christians who proudly announce that they are right while others are wrong - are just following what their Daddy & Mommy taught them. Yes there are some converts who has only studied one or two particular religions & ended up in an illusion that he got it right! However, he neglects the revelations of philosophy & science, two fields which has contributed to the knowledge of mankind more than anything
  
  ...Thus the study of religion wont & cant help a person to find out the truth because the truth is not there! Then there is another problem - HOW DO YOU KNOW WHICH FAITH IS RIGHT & WHICH FAITH IS WRONG? Specially when faith doesnt work in a rational way! As you see, it is not possible for an unbiased mind to decide on a particular religion in his lifetime. I find it very AMUSING that GOD would send him to HELL because he couldnt decide or understood the right religion. But alas...this is the person who actually spent his whole life finding out the truth while MOST Christians babbled what their father babbled to them! May be your GOD is not fair enough to reward the right guy!
  
  FOLLOWING YOUR DADDY'S PATH IS EZ...But BREAKING FREE from it is HELL TOUGH!!!
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  wilmiers77posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rishy Rich, you are at the point just after Eve eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of what's right and what's wrong. Now, faith is the substance of things hopeD for...One can't ask what faith is right or wrong, than there would be no need for faith if you know. It is impossible to please God without faith.
  
  God knows the heart of a person; final judgement is by
  God. The inspired Word of God says that the only unforgiving sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. They are going to hell for sure. All of us others had better love the docu of Jesus when God checks our hearts or else...WOO WEE!!!
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Faith is often the boast of those minds who are too lazy to investigate. Its nothing but the reason of our ignorance...your ignorance! But it is not going to last long...soon enough we will find a society without superstitions & mass hysteria like religion. I hope your great great great grand children wont be a victim of blind faith as u are...
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Faith is the reasoning of our ignorance. I don't think that's what you meant, but that's how it struck me. Knowledge is the reasoning of our intelligence, faith is the reasoning of our ignorance. Where we are ignorant we fall back on feelings. Faith is the reasoning of our feelings.
  
  Even the bible tells you not to trust your feelings.
  
  Well put, either way.
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, faith is the reason of our ignorance...you got me ryt.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Faith is the reason why we still exist!
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Another faithful thought!
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Think about it... we couldn't even drive down the road if we didn't have faith, not when you have so many idiots who seem to have won their driver's license in a raffle!
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What seems to be mere faith to you is actually a very very complex calculating mechanism running inside ur brain. Irrespective of what u r doing outside, ur brain seems to work continuously inside.
  
  Faith wont help u to drive if u r completely physically disable. It takes hands, legs & eyes to see & drive - thats the basic equation. So u see, it not faith...its pure math!
  
  Faith is very different & very harmful!
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rishy, I was referring to having faith in humanity... in other human beings, trusting that they know what they are doing so that you don't get hurt. Get me?
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You can have faith only in urself because ur mind knows whats inside u. Having faith in others whether its God or man, doesnt make sense. Get me?
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, what do you call having total and blind faith in someone to do the right thing? Have you ever experienced that? Or, what about having faith that a problem will be solved no matter what happens?
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thats hope...
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  & the outcome depends on the environment & relative circumstances, not on ur faith!
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Having hope is having faith
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Incorrect. Faith is something that is present & existing. i.e. I believe in God, I have faith in Him.
  
  Hope is the future, something u r expecting. i.e. I hope God will show him the the right path one day.
  
  Hope is a desire, faith is a belief.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are quite correct, klara. I got you!
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I think like Salma Hayek in the movie Dogma - It's better to have an "idea" than to believe. You can always change an idea, but people will kill for their beliefs.
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  True. Thats why I said earlier, Its very very harmful!
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Rishy!
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are welcome
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bullshit [term used for emphasis].
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Blah blah blah, drool drool drool.
  
  You Christians do love to make empty threats and pronouncements. Your words also indicate your ignorance of your own superstition and the ramifications and repercussions of the tenets and concepts involved.
  
  Guess what? If you're going to render the concepts and teachings of your malevolent and perverted superstition then you are subject to all the other superstitions you lack belief in.
  
  You can't have it both ways.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rishy Richposted 6 days agoin reply to this
  
  Yes according to him & fundamental Christianity thats how it works. Unfortunately, Muslims say the same thing about Islam too. Then there are hundreds of other religions which mentions the same bait about their belief. As a result, this creates a fundamental problem for a normal human being specially who doesnt belong to any of those religion, since he has to study all of these religions in order to find out the truth in his short life time."
  
  None of them have the 'truth.'
  
  With the various superstitions they, as you indicate, promise eternal consequences for this, that and the other. Christians become the pass around play toys for all the other celestial toddlers. Everyone knows what happens to the toys of toddlers.
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  thirdmilleniumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is no hell. Nobody, whether he believes in Jesus or not, will go there.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can believe that.. BUT.. I think that if there is a hell ?? Who ever does, will burn quicker than a snow flake,,, into nothingness. Something like that.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hell has a better climate and clientele.
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  Anicholposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hello aka-dj
  Just wondering if telling someone they have a choice between heaven or hell could be seen as coercive?
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  wilmiers77posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Anichol, you are right, don't miss the right choice!
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you break the speed limit, you will get booked, and pay a fine.
  If you don't want to pay a fine, don't break the speed limit.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is different DJ. The speed limit and fine actually exist.
  
  But - love it that you go around threatening people - in the name of religion.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is no choice.
  
  I can no more believe in that stone-age fecal matter than I can physically flap my arms and fly to Europe.
  
  According to the Christian superstition, all are mere actors in a pointless play hitting their marks and spouting their lines as scripted eons ago.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No choice. Its scripted.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you really think God will punish an African tribal shaman for believing in theSpirit of Rain instead of Jesus Chirst? That makes no sense to me. If God wanted that particular person to believe in Jesus, then he wouldn't have allowed him to be born into a tribe.
  
  I always think about this:
  If the Spirit of an African deity, halfway dressed, with a massive shell and bone necklace appears to a white American man... say from Kentucky! he will most likely think it's the Devil's work. The same vision might be seen as beneficial to an African tribal man. If the vision of a white man, dressed in white ropes, wearing wings and a halo appears to an African tribal man, he'll probably think it's an alien and run for his life.
  
  The point I'm trying to make is that God has made us all different and I believe He will present Himself according to one's culture and background.
  
  It's illogical to think that someone who has never been introduced to the bible will end up in Hell for not allowing the religious conversion to take place. If it doesn't strike a chord because he just can't relate to our culture, he will not be condemned to Hell. If he were, then what does that say about God's love?
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's not culturally exclusive!
  That's why we are told to preach it to ALL men. (those that haven't heard).
  
  Seriously searching people will always find Him, because He has promised, those who "seek Him, with their whole heart WILL find Him".
  If you really want to know what God's love is really like, look at Jesus, His life and teaching. If this doesn't "do it for you" nothing will.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Notice dj, that preaching to those who haven't heard is more about the wants and needs of those preaching than the wants and needs to whom are being preached.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Beelzedad, I can't even understand what you wrote! It's too early for this mumbo-jumbo!
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I suspected that some time ago.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is culturally exclusive to uncultured Christians and fictional characters can never be found. Your words are a grand example of the moral bankruptcy of Christianity.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah good then. You're not a christian.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who, me?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pay attention. Answer the question directed to you and ignore the comment which clearly wasn't.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Will do.
  Your post did appear immediately after mine.
  A anomaly of the system. I will keep my , mouth shut.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  klarawieckposted 6 days agoin reply to this
  
  "Do you really think God will punish an African tribal shaman for believing in theSpirit of Rain instead of Jesus Chirst?"
  
  Of course, 'God' is quite the pervert. It drowned innocent fetus' in their mothers wombs as well as those innocents who had no knowledge of the daemon deity-by deliberate design with malice aforethought.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps if you believers kept the BAD NEWS to yourselves, there wouldn't be this level of animosity? Whatcha think DJ?
  
  Because when I tell you that your beliefs are garbage (which they are) - it upsets you - yet you have been "told" to do the same to everyone else.
  
  How hypocritical.
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  wilmiers77posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, you need to do some background research or thinking "why religions develop in all cultures that have become stable over a reasonable period of time?", than check out Christianity from the beginning with an open mind. Don't look at other people; look at Jesus, the Christian.
  
  Everything screams a "higher Power". You and I only popped up a few seconds ago on the cosmic scale of time.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But what a few seconds its been for Mark! lol
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Today? Open mind? Where? If people were to have an open mind, they would see so much better. But how do you tell them that?
  Higher Power, Creator, Almighty. What ever label you place on it , it is still the same.
  Native American and Christianity, Let's look. The Earth and the filling of it came first, then people. Ok. The Native American people have been mocked for respecting Nature. Christian or athesist, it does not matter. We could all learn so much from the Native Americans.
  In my opinion, they are "closer" to the Higher Power.
  I believe we, as "Christians" would be doing them an injustice by trying to get them to follow the way of "christianity" as it is today.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing screams of a 'higher power.' Such remains theistic delusions.
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  the pink umbrellaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  so your saying that if a civilization is untouched by christianity, they end up in hell for the simple fact that they had no way of knowing about it. god, the ego on you people is astounding.
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  wilmiers77posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Scripture reads that only after everyone hears the gospel of Jesus, the Son of God, than judgement. God knows the heart of each individual. God knows whether you accept Jesus. Now, in the world, if one doesn't think that the docu of Jesus is beautiful is on that other side...whether they know or not.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Man, have you overdosed on the kool-aid. Your lack of humanity is noted as is your Christian brand 'Love.'
  
  With your mindset don't be surprised when you take up residence in Hell.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  no pink, that is not what is being said. Hell is reserved in part for those that Know and reject.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Since no gods have made themselves apparent to me, I don't have anything to reject. Send one over my way, and then we'll talk about accepting and rejecting.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There's nothing to look for or examine.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What do you consider the aspect of eternal hell to be then? Is that not a threat? Is that not emotional blackmail? Is that not terrorism?
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  pb--what form of disipline did your parents issue to you when you broke a rule?
  Were there different punishments for different "crimes" or did you follow one basic punishment regardless?
  My parents believed in spanking. (their right). If I physically hurt someone, or was overly disrespectful of either my parents or grandparents, I got a spanking. I hated that. I thought my parents were so cruel. UNTIL I grew up.
  God, as our Father has told us from the get go, the consequences if we do not accept Him.
  There is a denomination that does not believe in Hell. Nobody wants there to be one, because the way I see it, it scares them.
  Sure, who wouldn't want to just live the any ole way and not have to worry about it.
  What is the aspect of eternal hell? The answer can be found in a little book called the Bible. Got one?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So - spanking is the same as burning for eternity for not believing the garbage you spread? Wot a luving Daddy. I sure do hope he doesn't love me the way wot u sed. I skeered.
  
  Reality. Got some?
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  skeered? not my choice of words. Reality. I live in the real world, the one God created. Respect? Get u some.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Try earning it instead. Where I come from - that is how we do it instead of speaking nonsense and demanding it.
  
  Reality. Got some? Apparently not.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Notice how these Christians demand respect when they don't show any to others.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  That's a bold assertion, being that there is no evidence of a God. It seems you live inside your imagination.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Imagination? That is something you think of. Made up. Not real. .........
  I live in the world The Creator Created. I am sorry that you can't or choose not to see all the evidence of Him around you. Science did not create you. I know, they can clone you.
  Do you agree with this statement, things have to come full circle in order to be complete?
  Do you think technology is as advanced as it will be?
  Do you think that Egypt was as advanced as we are today or much behind us?
  Have you ever lived on a farm? Growing/raising/harvesting a garden is a task. Back in the day, folks would grow their garden, and from the harvest, would save seeds to replant the next year. With 90% of the seeds or plants that you purchase today, you can not do that. That is science/technology. (On a leash mantality) on purpose. If people would think about that, then and there would they find cruel.
  The Creator, gives us or provides for us, what we need. Oh, I can hear it now. The infamous thinking, does he just drop by with your needs????????
  Evolution, it happened. But the question is or should be, how? What/who placed it into existence?
  His Word is powerful.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't mind visiting that world to see that evidence, where is that world, how do I get there?
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  salvation process get you there. its free. Other n that people will always be on the outside looking in (the evidence is behind them lol)
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is that the name of a train, a ship or an SUV?
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Common Christian lie. The 'salvation process' isn't free.
  
  The sane are the ones laughing at you, oh malevolent bearer of false witness.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  stoneyy. Good day to you.
  The Salvation process is totally free. You see, the price was paid long ago.
  If you have been asked to pay for the knowledge that will lead you to Salvation, I am sorry that you had that experience.
  You know, I've read several post, and even replied to some. I agree, there are those that hide behind the Church, I agree there are some that call themselves Christian who in fact are sometimes the devils advocate. There have been preachers that have been questionable to say the least.
  But, stoneyy, we will not be judged by the actions of others. We will dance to our own fiddle.
  Religion, or Christianity, ---if the title is all one has, they aint got much. But my advice to anyone is PLEASE do not turn away from Christ because of another persons actions.
  There is a denomination that believes only 144,000 will go to Heaven. I have always disagreed with this, but ya know, it may be possible.
  There are good and bad in all. But back to your post, salvation is free.
  You dont even have to leave your house.
  God doesn't ask us to be perfect. All He ask is to love Him and accept His son and to love one another.
  We are to try to be Christ like, we will never be perfect, and you know, He even wants us to be happy and blessed.
  Im a long way from being even half way to perfect. Self gets in the way quiet a bit. Temptation, oh its there. Temper, know it too. But, stoneyy, I try each day to be a blessing in some way to the people i meet.
  Challenges, do you like them? Up for one?
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  mom101posted;
  
  "stoneyy. Good day to you."
  
  G'day Mumm hope your day is pleasant.
  
  "The Salvation process is totally free. All He ask is to love Him and accept His son and to love one another. "
  
  Free items have no strings attached. Christians always misrepresent things-against the [cough] Commandment [cough] against false witness. 'Funny' that.
  
  Q: *Who* 'created' everything?
  
  A: God.
  
  Q: *Who* was inconvenienced for your scripted sins?
  
  A: Jesus
  
  Q: *Who* are you being 'saved' *from?*
  
  A: God
  
  You know, I'm really tired of arrogant Xians assuming I don't a darn thing about their stone and bronze-age drivel.
  
  The actions of Xians generally demonstrates their moral bankruptcy and deception. In their own vernacular they "follow their father, Satan, well.'
  
  God doesn't exist and I'm sorry you're so deluded and fearful of death you've latched onto malevolent faerie tales.
  
  Now, here's a golden opportunity for you Mum.
  
  Please provide the following;
  
  A clear and concise definition for the effectively undefined g-o-d letter string. You may not present something which: begs myriad questions, hand waves furiously, or leads to broken logic.
  
  Once that is done feel free to:
  
  Provide objective supporting evidence the universe was manufactured, which is how you're using the word 'created.'
  
  Provide objective evidence it wasn't created by Tiamat the Dragon and a host of older deity constructs than yours. This would also demonstrate your daemon deity deserves the credit.
  
  Also deal with the broken logic of the Creator concept. You know, the 'first' cause and 'uncaused' cause drivel.
  
  If 'God' didn't need to be manufactured it falsifies the claim that everything needs manufacturing. In such a case, the universe gets an exemption as well.
  
  You're free to believe any damn fool thing you like, but if you expect others to pay attention to it then it is subject to all the tools you, hopefully, utilize in other areas of your life.
  
  Unsupported idiocy like 'God' are overpriced at a penny per million.
  
  It really is just that simple. Now, if you insist on an 'argument of numbers' then your diet should be fecal matter. Why? Because 50 million flies can't be wrong.
  
  You folks lack belief in all other deity constructs but yours, and that isn't a problem. I lack belief in them, as well. However, I lack belief in the Xian idiocies as well. Then Xians get upset because their delusions don't get special treatment. I'm very tired of Xian rudeness, cowardice, and other B.S., and that's a fact.
  
  You folks never put up or shut up and I'm tired of it. Grow Up!
  
  Good day.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mom and dad used to have little spats. As a child, it scared me. As an adult, I came to realize that they enjoyed those little spats.
  I do not appreciate your labeling me, as you apparently have no clue as to what I believe.
  I do get it that you are tired of rudeness, cowardice, etc, then why, stoneyy, is it that the only people you "jump on" are the ones you call xians? I mean, hey dude, look around, there are lots of rude ones learking.
  It is not my place to judge you. And judge i will not.
  My diet, if it is any of your concern, regardless of what I dine on, ends up same place as does yours. (Oh and stoneyy, there is a message there, not just a cute comeback).
  My belief/disbelief, your belief/disbelief, if either causes disharmony in nature, it needs corrected.
  Grow up.? Well, i'm working on it.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't understand why there comes a point where a post cannot be responded to. I'm piggybacking this response to a previous post of yours.
  
  Any idea why this becomes the case?
  
  mom101 wrote;
  
  Mom and dad used to have little spats. As a child, it scared me. As an adult, I came to realize that they enjoyed those little spats.
  I do not appreciate your labeling me, as you apparently have no clue as to what I believe. ]
  
  I've responded to the data provided in your posts. Whether you actually believe the stuff you post, or not, is your affair.
  
  Sadly, you've refused to address the points I, and others, have raised. Such is your prerogative, of course. However, that path doesn't allow further discussion.
  
  I saw your fake challenge and reversed it on you. You didn't like that one bit. Well, I didn't like the stunt when you pulled it on me.
  
  mom101 wrote;
  I do get it that you are tired of rudeness, cowardice, etc, then why, stoneyy, is it that the only people you "jump on" are the ones you call xians? I mean, hey dude, look around, there are lots of rude ones learking. ]
  
  First 'Xian' was generated by Xian's over a milennia ago. It isn't an insult. As I recall, the first letter is the Greek letter 'rho' which works out to the letters 'ch.'
  
  Secondly, you might take a real good look at the Xian posts which generate a rude response. There is no reason to treat a Xian with more courtesy than the individual treats you.
  
  There are courteous Xian's here, two or three, and, in the main, they are treated with courtesy as well. SJW is one such lady. She presents her religious beliefs as pertaining to herself only and not pushing them onto others or pronouncing them as being part of objective reality.
  
  If a person does so project then such becomes applicable to being examined via the tools Xian's hopefully use in other aspects of their lives.
  
  I utilized these tools examining your post I was responding to.
  
  Please note I'm not 'reading you any riot act.' You were civil in your response and I'm reflecting that back to you.
  
  mom101 wrote;
  It is not my place to judge you. And judge i will not. ]
  
  mom101 wrote;
  My diet, if it is any of your concern ]
  
  How sad you had to misrepresent my point which was;
  "Unsupported idiocy like 'God' are overpriced at a penny per million.
  
  It really is just that simple. Now, if you insist on an 'argument of numbers' then your diet should be fecal matter. Why? Because 50 million flies can't be wrong."
  
  mom101 wrote;
  , regardless of what I dine on, ends up same place as does yours. (Oh and stoneyy, there is a message there, not just a cute comeback). ]
  
  Your 'comeback' wasn't cute. It was sad. It was sad because you didn't have the integrity to address it straight. That was the only 'message' presented. If you disagree, then you'll be addressing the points raised in the post you're supposedly responding to.
  
  mom101 wrote;
  My belief/disbelief, your belief/disbelief, if either causes disharmony in nature, it needs corrected.
  Grow up.? Well, i'm working on it. ]
  
  Would you expound on the 'disharmony in nature' aspect? I'm uncertain as to exactly what you're trying to say. I've some ideas, but such could very well be on the wrong 'track.'
  
  I do hope your evening was a pleasant one.
  
  Cheers.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  stoneyy, I am so sorry. Instead of a lengthy explanation, I thought I would just give a brief answer and one that I also thought everyone would understand.
  Disharmony in Nature. In the Bible, it is said/implied (not word for word here) that we are not supposed to do anything that offends someone else. Here is my thought, if what you and I agree or disagree on causes any hard feelings, both of us walk away from that discussion thinking to ourselves, dang, I sure am glad I'm not like him/her because they are so wrong. Therefore, the door to any hope in that person even half way understanding your point of view is shut.
  As far as the challenge. Do I get the impression you are up to it? You never did say.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark Know less---(smile smile), I am sorry you feel so insecure about your belief that you have to revert to tossing little insinuations out there about my faith.
  I was raised to treat others the way you want to be treated. Ok. I have a question for you. By the way you seem to disrespect other peoples decision of faith, is that your way of saying, hey world, treat me like a arrogant jerk? Mark, take that for what it is, a question. Not name calling.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Passive aggressive attacks are still attacks.
  
  I am so very sorry that you feel the need to attack other people like wot jesus dun tole ya.
  
  Yes - I see why you would think anyone that does not agree with your ridiculous beliefs would automatically be an arrogant jerk. Not that you came out and actually said I was that - but - hey! that is the christian way. Right?
  
  You are a perfect example of why I make fun of your LOLOLO "faith." LOLOLOLO
  
  No morals - that is your problem. Disgusting religion really.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is a misguided statement. Yes, like I said, I try to live the best I can in respect of other people around me.
  I have not asked what you believe, or dont believe, that is none of my business.
  You are so badly wrong with everything in that last reply. I do not think or assume that you are an arrogant jerk because you do not believe the same as I do.
  I did not call you a jerk. I explained that to you.If I or anyone else would say the things to you about your faith or non-faith, that you have said about ours, you would call them names.
  I had a beautiful childhood. Dad, mom, love. They were not "church goers" but by golly I learned how to respect other people.
  You have no authority to judge my morals, as lack of. as you think.
  Religion in itself, I wouldnt know.
  Morals, if I had none, I would have chewed you up and spit you out by now. But, hey, thats how it is. I'm out of tums. See ya,
  Have a good day
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, even though you knew the consequences of your actions, you did it anyways and got a spanking for it.
  
  So, what was your point again?
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  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I am familiar with the standard story lines. What's your point?
  
  Save it for someone else, Miss Mom. Been there, done that.
  
  What I will share with you is that I do not expect or demand unquestioning faith and devotion from my children, and would be disappointed in their character development if that is what they exhibited anyway.
  
  Do I punish my children for not 'believing' in things they cannot possibly know? Of course not. I'd be ashamed of my children if they went around talking crap about stuff they didn't know, spreading stories and what are effectively lies as truth.
  
  Would I ever cast them away from me? Destroy them? Eternally hold them in disgrace and a state of everlasting punishment? No. Of course not. It doesn't matter what atrocity they may commit. They are my children and I do love them and always will.
  
  That is unconditional love. That is forgiveness and mercy. I don't play games with my childrens' lives and well-being. I don't place ultimatums on them or demand ransoms before I can stand to be in their imperfect presence.
  
  That's the same treatment -more or less- which I received from my parents. If humans are capable of a greater love than your god -which we certainly appear to be- then what the hell do I need him for?
  
  To sustain my life? I'm okay with death, nothing to fear. To forgive me my sins? I already forgave myself. To teach me righteousness? I'll submit to judgment by a group of my peers, but not by a psychotic alien who knows nothing about life in my world. To show me love? He has nothing to offer, I am already loved with a love so much truer and greater than his, right here on earth, by mere lowly human beings.
  
  Therefore I have no need of or usage for delusions.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  seems like u got it going on.
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  skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL@Hypocrisy.
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Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago
If Christian missionaries are able to convert non-Christians to become Christians that's fine. I don't belive they force anyone to convert.
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ofcourse they dont force anyone and if person willingly wants to convert to any religion it is simply fine..personally i dont believe in conversion concept..but if someone wants to get converted...well it is his/her choice...
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You ignore centuries of Christian history to the contrary.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But don't you think they lose a lot of their culture by converting? Religion is a huge part of culture, I think.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Culture adjusts all the time even if those missionaries weren't there. They have contact with people outside of their group. If it changes a lot because they exchanged beliefs and it was voluntary then what can be done?
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's OBLIGUNTARY - Someone tells you... if you don't accept Christ as your only savior you'll burn in Hell. There are not a lot of options there. Are there?
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No it's not. They don't have to believe the Christ's teachings.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You don't have to do anything in life but if someone tells you that you'll have to endure everlasting pain after you die, you don't have much of a choice unless you just dismiss them as insane, which is a hard thing to do considering they gang up on their prey.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Klarawieck, you must think either the native tribes are very stupid or the Christian missionaries are very coercive. In either case, it's obvious why you have this thread and it's basically to bash Christians and to make native tribes look stupid. I'm not participating anymore but I know now where you're coming from.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Flightkeeper, not my intention for you to get upset. I'm not trying to make anyone look stupid. I don't think tribes are stupid, but they are an easy target since most of them have remained separated from civilization and don't have access to all the resources we have. If you have a doubt you can find out more about it - reasearch it online, watch a documentary, try to make up your own mind. They don't. That's why I think of them as an easy target and not stupid. There is a big difference.
  As for me trying to bash Christians? not at all. I was raised catholic and although I don't practice any religion at this point in time I do respect those Christians who, in turn, show respect towards people who think and live a different way of life.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  People are always reading unspoken meanings into much of scripture.
  How many different meanings can be read into what Jesus said... "I have not come BUT for the lost sheep of Israel"
  
  He came to find the lost. He did not come to preach to the just, but to the unjust.
  
  The healthy has no need to see a doctor,
  
  I often think that the messages that the disciples taught was altered just enough to serve the purpose of the Roman Empires' New Church.
  After all this NEW Church is who assembled and edited the holy scriptures.
  There was not much that could be done to the Old Testament BUT The New testament was of their making. They included what they chose and excluded what they chose. Quite a bit of editing was at their disposal???
  
  And "THEY" taught that their product was the "ONLY" Inspired word of God. When possible ...All others were destroyed.
  
  I believe in the God of Abraham and The Messiah (Jesus)
  But I do not believe "everything" that “everybody” says about them.
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  the pink umbrellaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thats crap. what about the native americans? they were forced to convert or die.
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Rishy Richposted 14 years ago
I would like to pose this question to those who think conversion is OK.

Is it ok if Muslims convert Christians to Islam?
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's up to the individual to voluntary become a Muslim. That individual was not meant to be a Christian. It's not okay if a Muslim forces a Christian to convert. In Christianity people aren't killed for apostasy unlike Islam.
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah ur ryt...Islam's got some serious issues. Btw, do u know how many innocent Muslims were killed by the Christians during crusade?
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you know how many Muslim non-believers were killed by Muslims, in the hundreds of years prior to the Crusades?
  
  http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/11/ … rusad.html
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tell us how many were killed by Christians in the crusades, the dark ages and the various inquisitions.
  
  Which is the most murderous irrational belief system?
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  These were NOT (GET A CLUE!!!) Christians.
  I couldn't scream it ANY LOUDER!! ARE YOU HEARING ME???
  
  No, I guess not. Too blind and deaf, I guess. Sad really!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I see - so the Muslims that killed people were not Muslims either I guess? So - no one has ever killed anyone in the name of religion. Interesting.
  
  But - yes - shouting loudly seems to be what real christians do.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Stay on TOPIC please, can you?
  YOU said christians and cruisades first
  NOW you introduce Muslims.
  You seem to change your mind a lot.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK DJ. On topic. None of these millions of Christians were actually Christians. I get it. I also assume that any who do not follow your way of shouting at people who do not believe as you do - are actually Christians either. So - your religion is in fact - just a minor cult with very few adherents?
  
  That right?
  
  I must admit - I see a lot of "christians" telling other "christians" they are doing it wrong and are not "proper" christians.
  
  So - how do I tell the difference? Because you seem to be shouting and preaching and pretending an imaginary relationship is real and not behaving nicely - just like all the other Christians.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You should know what they were all like!
  You left the institution yourself for the self same reason, didn't you?
  Do I have to explain it to you?
  The truth is, you are a "closed book", with steel traps on your mind/heart. You will not let anyone in, not even God Himself. So, I don't expect either understanding, NOR change from you.
  I'm just happy to have some fun "conversing" with you. I have to tell you, I am OVER being offended, upset or angered by you. Its ALL GOOD buddy!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am open DJ. Dear me.
  
  Steel traps? If you knew me at all - you would not even consider such a thing. But - that is what real christians do - Judge anyone who does not believe what they do as being unable to "let anyone in" LOLOL
  
  Judgmental garbage - that is why you are no different to all the other christians DJ - you speak of love and dispense judgment and ill will.
  
  Yeah - that would be why I ditched your religion in the first place - too many just like you.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Open to what?
  
  I ditched my religion too. Kinda like you, but you never heard that.
  
  Too busy sprouting your disdain for anyone who believes anything different to you. Sound familiar?
  
  Yep, you are open!
  Did I mention a steel trap? Oh yes, I think I did.
  Still holds true. Sorry dude.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just a point of clarity, dj.
  
  Mark not "letting in" your god is exactly the same thing as you not "letting in" Allah? Doesn't that, in essence make you a "closed book" too?
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Allah and God are the same thing.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Uh, Allah promotes Islam, not Christianity. FYI.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pardon me, but another point of clarity, dj.
  
  Those who condoned and promoted those atrocities did in fact state they were Christians, and they used scriptures to justify their acts, no matter how much you scream. In fact, had you been screaming that then, it would very likely have been you perched high atop a burning stake or stretched out on a rack.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, they were very proud Xians, and they had the Babble verses to back them up, no matter how much you lie to yourself.
  
  Your projection about being blind and deaf has also been noted.
  
  Christian cowardice has never ceased to amaze me.
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I havent seen ur link but I can guess whats in there . Its ok until u r suggesting Islam & christianity is not much different in terms of violence!
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The article lays out the years of Muslim crusades forcing conversion or death, prior to the Christian crusades. The idea that the Christians just woke up one day and decide to spread there religion through violent means is misleading at best. Muslims have always sought through conquest to force Islam upon those they defeated, in some cases the choice was to convert or die. They don't believe in freedom of religion. Anyway I wanted to put the Crusades in context, which many seem to like to gloss over.
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Trust me...I can post hundreds of articles which would say exactly opposite! Check ur source before trusting them! Moshe Gil?? A jew historian who is prominent for his anti islamic view. & David Nicolle...a Christian who is saying Christians were heroes against muslim barbers!! Funny!
  
  I can show numerous links where the Christian authors have claimed something u might not like
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Forget the text, look at the time line. Are these historic events fact or not?
  
  I'm not trying to justify or absolve Christians of any of their actions, but only wish to provide balance.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe all religions have the potential of being extremely dangerous.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You mean you actually think it's potentially dangerous to believe in things that probably don't exist?
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelzedad! My love! Where have you been?! I missed you!!! lol
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You may miss me but you don't respond to my posts anymore.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, I'll be fair then... since you only want me for my mind! LOL
  I don't think it's dangerous to believe in what you want. I think the danger comes when you try to get other people to believe in what you think it's right. Which can be applied to you, my little Einstein. Although not religious, you do try to get everyone to think like you.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like for example, you want to believe you're a psychic and that's not dangerous to anyone but yourself. Okay, I can agree with that.
  
  Like trying to convince others that psychic abilities do in fact exist. Okay, that makes sense.
  
  That isn't true at all. I simply present my understanding of the physical world around me, which is supported and verified by observation and experimentation, and the rigorous work of countless individuals in the pursuit of understanding our world.
  
  No one is forcing you to share in this understanding, you're free to believe in things that contradict those understandings, despite the fact you have little to support it other than some vague testimonials, hearsay and self-professed beliefs.
  
  In other words, there are already a great number of people who "think" like me, just as there are a number of people who "believe" as you do.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't attempt to convince anyone of anything. I just share my point of view with others but I'm not trying to prove any point. That's why I love forums because anyone like me or like you can post their way of interpreting the world around us. It's beautiful to share! No harm done. I just think you read too much into things. It's very simple, really. Regardless of what you think about me, I think you are Mr. Wonderful!
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The danger doesn't come from religion or from one's beliefs, the danger comes from intolerance of other's beliefs and a desire to force others to think and act in line with a group. religion is a tool that's sometimes used to do this by people in power wanting to control the masses, creating artificial enemies to distract from the real issues.
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your words doesnt look like u r trying to provide balance! It seems to me u r trying to defend something u believe. I know history & I dont need to look at the time line again. Muslims did commit murders & slaughters...I dont deny that but fortunately it was far far lesser than what the Christians did at that time! I think u need to undo ur previous understanding & learn it from a neutral source!
  
  Happy reading
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Far lesser? How do you measure that, but the number of bodies ? By the most ruthless nature of the way death is administered?
  Anytime death is justified in the name of God there is a pervasion of spriituality. let's forget history for a moment and look around the world today, where is the death, the intolerance, the oppression greatest?
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So u want to judge the whole history based on this century? Nice way of skipping the history coz u already knw that u would lose it right there!
  
  And u ask where is the death, intolerance & oppression greatest?
  
  Oh obviously its middle east!!! ryt? ...Politics & religion do go side by side, but still these two should not be used interchangeably!
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree those shouldn't be used interchangeably, unfortunately when a government is a theocratic state with an official religion, then we have no choice.
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I dont knw whether u r aware of this or not...ryt b4 the Iraq war President Bush stated in a press brief that God has instructed him to wage war against Saddam!!!...Funny, huh? However, this doesnt indicate that Christianity is responsible for this war nor indicates its a religious war. But people like u would misinterpret it too, bcoz they have no choice
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  the pink umbrellaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  which religeon killed more people...wow. killing in the name of faith, and you guys are going to sit here and argue who did less of it.
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  LeanManposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah...
  
  My god killed more than your good.... na na na na na na.....
  
  lol
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'll try to shake this image off my head. Ok... let me see... nope, it's still there... ... ... now? Ah, better!
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Any article with words "The Truth" in the title immediately raises a red flag to me.
  
  This is not to say that Islam is not guilty in mass murders - every Abrahamic religion is. Christianity probably holds the record, though.
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why not organize an award giving ceremony on this issue? Lets see if anyone has the guts to defeat the Christians!
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How many people have been killed by Christians since Biblical times?
  
  VICTIMS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
  
  "WONDERFUL EVENTS THAT TESTIFY TO GOD'S DIVINE GLORY"
  
  http://articles.exchristian.net/2002/10 … led-by.php
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, do you know why there were Crusades?
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am ignorant...Please enlighten me
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm surprised since you were the one who brought it up. Well, since you brought up something you didn't know about, do your homework and get back to me. Perhaps we'll have some sort of discussion then.
  
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Havent u seen 'Kingdom of Heaven'? I loved it for its neutrality. Although Orlando Bloom didnt play it too good but the movie was mostly based on true events i.e. the representation of the slaughters of innocent musilms, women, children & war hungry christians.
  
  I dont like to post lists & links of slaughters & murders but if u insist I can do that to ...And abt who is responsible for Crusade wars?? Please read some neutral source before arguing it. You were not there & you dont knw what the middle easterners & muslims think abt it
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  ediggityposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah FlightKeeper study up. You were not there during the Crusade wars, and Rishy Rich obviously was.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I must say about Islam - there are certain practices that need to be changed... I correct myself here... that need to be ELIMINATED because they are barbaric in nature. Other than that, they can do whatever they please... as long as they don't kill or hurt anyone in the process.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Flightkeeperposted 6 days agoin reply to this
  
  It's up to the individual to voluntary become a Muslim. That individual was not meant to be a Christian. It's not okay if a Muslim forces a Christian to convert. In Christianity people aren't killed for apostasy unlike Islam."
  
  No, it isn't voluntary for Christians to become Muslim. Many Christians, recently on an island invaded by 'soldiers for Allah' {can't recall which one off-hand} had a choice between conversion or death.
  
  No, Christians didn't slaughter each other over apostasy, but they merrily slaughtered each other over heresy.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course, however, if that were possible then the person converted to Islam would not have been a regenerated believer, but a follower of Christ (i.e. a member of Churchianity, not in the body of Christ) any regenerated believer would undoubtedly end up showing the Muslim the truth about Christ, and may win them for Christ, especially as it's the Holy Spirit that brings Muslims to Christ.
  
  However if a Christian tries to convert a Muslim, the Islamic faithful will kill both of them, so I guess it was a loaded question.
  
  Christianity is not a belief system you cannot leave, Earnest is evidence of that. It's a faith that survives because it's believers can testify to it's relevance to their lives.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Once again you project your beliefs about others without a clue as to why your crazed beliefs drive people away once they get past the indoctrination.
  
  My interest here is in informing others that your sky fairy is a myth.
  
  I have been in and out of your fantasy, you have only travelled half the road!
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leebertteaposted 14 years ago
I think education is a good thing, but before one can impart an education they must have one themselves and those the want to educate must be interested in receiving that education. That said before anyone wants to impart their beliefs on a people they should know everything about those people, their culture and beliefs, and those people should express a desire to know about what they have to say. Pushing one's beliefs on another though isn't education. You can tell others about what you believe and why you believe it and they must make a decision to follow those beliefs on their own.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amen! Hallelujah!
  
  Very well stated Lee...
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Greek Oneposted 14 years ago
only convert the attractive ones.. I don't want any ugly people in my religion
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wise decision ...You would have done GREAT AS THE POPE!!
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Helloooooooooo Clarisse!
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  susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  @ Greek now..come on, stay on topic or Nick B will try and walk all over you. But I do love your funny come backs.
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  susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Update: The post from Greek, in which my last reply was in response to, has been removed from this page forum. These things happen often.
  
  Hope you have a wonderful Labor Day, Greek. Cheers!
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Nick Bposted 14 years ago
I think the missionaries have imposed their beliefs upon the natives of these far-off lands.

They were doing perfectly well before they were interfered with and didn't know or care about so-called civilisation. In the end, it's made their lives worse in a lot of respects.
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susanlangposted 14 years ago
Anyone claiming to be afraid of any article containing the words "the truth" seems to have a trust problem. I read many tid-bits that started with those words and they were very good reads!

The Truth About Temptation (by Greg LaurieDuring)

a busy lunch hour in a crowded downtown area, a minister was searching for a parking place. He circled the block again and again, with no result. Deciding to double-park, he took out his business card and wrote a note for any officer who might come by and ticket him. "Dear Officer," he wrote, "I circled this block ten times. I have an appointment to keep." He closed his note with, "Forgive us our trespasses."

About an hour later, the minister returned to find a parking ticket under his windshield. It read, "Dear Reverend, I have circled this block for ten years. If I don't give you a ticket, I'll lose my job. Lead us not into temptation."

Sooner or later, temptation will come your way. But you play a key role in how effectively you resist it. While it's true Satan plays a role in tempting you, you must first cooperate with him before you give in.

As Christians, we face three enemies every day: the flesh, the world, and the devil. The flesh is the evil nature we all have within us - that propensity, that vulnerability to do the wrong thing. Next, there is Satan with his outward enticements. Then, of course, there is the world. You might say that the flesh with its desires is the internal foe. Satan with his enticements is the infernal foe, and the world with its enticements is the external foe.

Temptation's Origins

We must recognize that temptation originates with our bent toward doing the wrong thing. When we give in to temptation, we have only ourselves to blame (see Romans 6:16), but sometimes we blame God. But as we read in James, "Let no man say when he is tempted, 'I am tempted by God's; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone" (James 1:13).

Temptation's Timing

Temptation generally comes after great times of blessing. It hit Jesus when he went to the Jordan River and was baptized. The Holy Spirit came upon Him in the form of a dove, and God the Father said, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Matthew 3:17). Immediately after this, Jesus went into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. After the dove came the devil. After the blessing comes the trial.

Temptation's Targets

In a broad sense, everyone is tempted. However, the enemy focuses his attacks on those who are young in the faith and those who are making a difference in God's kingdom. Many Christians would recall that when they first came to Jesus, they were hit with some serious temptations. Likewise, any Christian who says, "Lord, I want you to use me," must know that Satan will attack. Be aware.

Temptation's Entryway

Have you ever been amazed after falling into sin and asked yourself how you ended up there? It was through a series of events that led you to ultimately rationalize that sin. Temptation generally comes in through the realm of your imagination. Think of it as if an unwelcome visitor were knocking at your door. You know you will have trouble if you open it. In the same way, when the enemy comes with temptation, don't open the door. In fact, don't even look through the peephole. Don't underestimate sin or the power of it.

Temptation's Antidote

It's important to note that the primary weapon Jesus used to resist temptation was the Word of God. In the same way, when the devil comes and tempts you, your first line of defense is the Bible. For example, if he whispers in your ear, "Go ahead and sin. No one will ever find out," your response should be something like: "No. It is written in Hebrews 4:13, 'All things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.'"

Temptation's Defeat

Temptation is the devil's primary method of attack. We all know a lot about it. None of us enjoys being tempted. But it is something that every Christian will experience. However, temptation can be resisted.

James 1:12 says, "Blessed is the man that endures temptation..." A better translation of the word blessed would be happy. Happy is the person who makes it through temptation. If you respond as you should, then you ultimately will hold that much tighter to the Lord Jesus Christ the next time Satan comes with some kind of an enticement.
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Nick Bposted 14 years ago
And just what has that got to do with converting tribal natives of far-off lands to Christianity?

Could it have been the temptation of thinking they knew what was best, when they knew nothing at all?

Should one of the ten commandments have been, "thou shalt not poke thy noses in where it's not wanted?"
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  susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  @nick b I was responding to another post here... I see you didn't climb all over his back. It has everything to do with it....love is not contained to one thing or one idea. It seems you lack some Nick. So here's a big hug for ya (((((((( HUG))))))))) hope you feel better now that you know you're loved Nick!
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wildorangeflowerposted 14 years ago
Karl Marx said, "religion is the opium of the masses", understanding conditions when one is poor like the passage in the bible that says, "Blessed are the poor for they will inherit the earth" -- afterlife, not now.

I see this on some areas in different parts of the world, Christians on missions converting people on missionary work - sometimes it conflicts with peoples culture at the specific place, like how can they have a white God etc., and when they are converted, it will mixed with their culture,

Spaniards occupied Mexico for many years and they brought Catholicism with them, same in the Philippines, -- in the 15th to 19th century, family conversion to a religion is their target so that they can be assured that the next generations will still have same belief.

The Muslims in the Philippines were never converted to Christians and they were never subjugated by the Spaniards when they occupied the Philippines for more than 300 years.

Your question is that if it is right for Christians to convert natives, I think it is up to them, if they will embrace Christianity, as long as they will respect others who don't want to be converted. The tendency for some converters is that they will try to tell the others that to be converted means to see the light -- and if you are not converted yet, you are missing big part of living.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, don't talk bad about the Spaniards. They won the worldcup! LOL
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  Glenn Raymondposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think it is very normal for human beings to explore other avenues or paths, but the key to it all is, "explore it, but never let go of your faith in God." nuff' said?
  
  Excellent question, by the way.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have no reason to let go of my lack of faith in imaginary beings. 'Nuff said.
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  wildorangeflowerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say anything bad about Spaniards, smile.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Karl Marx?! Did you know that in Cuba they harass religious people while using that particular quote by Karl Marx? That goes to show that a perfectly normal phrase can be easily misinterpreted causing horrible results. Why is it so difficult to find the right balance?
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  wildorangeflowerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's just the way it is, at times religion incites conflict and many times it also binds people. Religion arises due to the needs for answers.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yet, we can easily bind people together without religion just as easily as we can incite conflict. But, if we take religion out of the equation, we can bind them together without inciting conflict.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have you ever watched a soccer game with fans from both teams?! Are you serious?! LOL
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have you ever been to college or university or worked in a research facility? Do you spend nights with tens of thousands of other amateur and professional astronomers who amass several times a year to share their idea, equipment and photographs of the night sky?
  
  I could provide countless examples of such "binding" of people.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's the problem with you Beelzedad! You've spent too long looking up! Do some neck exercises, a little yoga perhaps? Have a little fun, my friend!
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  wildorangeflowerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  it just the way it is, as civilization develops, religion came into being. I think it was an inevitable process. And as long as there is a need for it, it will stay that way.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, it reduces one avenue of reducing conflict and greatly reduces any body count.
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  susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  @klarawieck I ask that same question often, why is it so hard to find the right balance? I think as long as we humans remain here on earth...there will never be a complete balance.
  
  The bible sums it up. And if you dont believe in the Saint James Bible or any bible, then science sums it up! One way or another no human will ever have success in creating perfect balance. Sadly!
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's why I say Let The Hippies Rule The World! Peace sister!
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  susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  @klarawieck I know some hippies from the 60's and 70's:
  
  Hippies Life
  By Valencia Higuera
  
  The 1960's gave birth to the "Hippies." These were individuals best known for rejecting many of society's morals and attitude. Those who did not live during this era may be able to pinpoint a hippie while browsing photographs depicting the sixties.
  
  Hippies were likely the ones wearing very flamboyant outfits painted with flowers, long hair, and giving a peace sign.
  
  Hippies were born in the midst of a revolution. The revolution of the 1960's was a time when sexual freedom, drug use, and wild music took centered stage.
  
  Hippies were often termed swingers. The introduction of the birth control pill gave many adults "and teenagers" the freedom to experiment with sex without the fear of pregnancy.
  
  The birth control pill was especially praised among females. For the first time, women could express their sexuality with a number of partners.
  
  Hippies were also known to engage in risky drug behavior. During the 1960's drugs such as marijuana, LSD, and cocaine were easily accessible.
  
  Because hippies adopted a notion of freedom, many experimented with drugs in order to achieve a euphoric state of mind. Unfortunately, several hippies of the sixties developed addiction problems and died from drug overdose.
  
  Despite negative thoughts associated with this specific group of individuals, hippies were known for their love and compassion for others.
  
  The 1960's were a time or racial divide among Americans. Schools were segregated, and people of different races had a unconcealed hate for one another.
  
  On the other hand, the hippies embraced everyone regardless of color, faith, or sex. Hippies were deeply concerned with ending segregation, which prompted many to take part in historic movements such as the March on Washington.
  
  Moreover, hippies promoted love, thus many were involved in several protests to end the Vietnam War.
  
  Peace be with you too sissy!
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I missed the 60's altogether, but either way... Long Live The Hippies!
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china manposted 14 years ago
NO it is quite wrong for christians to spread their bull***t to anyone else - let alone vulnerable indigenous peoples who by definition think at a realtively simple level about spritual or metaphysical things.

Religion is the worst plague that can be spread, and the carriers should be barred from going anywhere near others.
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  susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree with you on all points.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is your prerogative, Ms. Lang.
  
  Cheers.
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  susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  @ stoneyy: Thanks for allowing it...hope you have a wonderful Labor Day!
  
  Cheers.
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Greek Oneposted 14 years ago
people should be able to speak to other people about religion freely....

as long as they don't come knocking on my door, call me on the phone, or otherwise get in my face and force me to hit them
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  susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  @Greek that was not very nice..but of-course you're kidding!
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  no.. not really lol
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  Nick Bposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We've got a baseball bat you can borrow...
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Greek Orthodox Church holds the best mass. Can't understand a thing the priest says!
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  me either
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  Nick Bposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ?
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I just hang around until they pass the wine!
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  susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  @ klarawieck is that red or white, french or italian?
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what? the wine or the language the priest speaks? lol
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  susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  @ klarawieck: Both.. lol
  
  Happy Labor Day, Sister!
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  susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  @ Greek Is that because you sit all the way in the back or because you just don't show up for service, or because your there..but you sleep through it?
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  it's because it is in Greek lol
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  Nick Bposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good grub afterwards too
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  susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  @ Greek: Hope you have a wonderful Labor Day! Cheers.
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  Glenn Raymondposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very moving sentiments, Greek One. I tend to lean the same way you do, as far as other folks shoving it down my throat. This is part of the reason why the sign at the bottom of my driveway says, "Keep Out, No Trespassing."
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have a mormon friend that has a sign hanging from the gate at his house that reads: Keep Out, No Trespassing, Violators will be shot at first glance, Survivors will be shot again.
  I love mormons!
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Or 'no soliciting' and the god botherers ignore them all to puke their drivel all over you.
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Nick Bposted 14 years ago
I agree. I have had to resort to some pretty underhanded methods to get the Jehovah's Witnesses off my doorstep. They're a bloody nuisance.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have found that loud throaty improvised African chants combined with a posessed look and a sudden torso twitch at the moment you open the door does the trick.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've heard opening the door while nude and shouting; "the human sacrifices have arrived" gets rid of them instantly.
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  jehovahs witness are not christian either. there are doctrinal differences that separate them.
  
  1. the 144,000 doctrine is wrong
  2. jehovahs baptism is incorrect. we do not get to dictate where we spend eternity
  3. christ did not lay down his life for sin and in punishment.
  4. jesus is not the son of god, just a good man.
  5. there is not born again salvation
  
  Just for starters.
  
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  to ad to your list.
  
  6. There is no sky fairy.
  7. The bible and quoran are totally psychotic books.
  8. Religionists keep plastering their beliefs all over the net because they are trying to get their belief up to the same level as their indoctrination tells them to!
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  JW's are Christian in spite of your assertions to the contrary oh son of Satan.
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Nick Bposted 14 years ago
Hmm. Interesting concept.

I'm sure the world's other religions would be only too pleased...
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leebertteaposted 14 years ago
I think it was Voltaire that said 'if God didn't exist, man would have found it necessary to invent him' or something like that.
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  wildorangeflowerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe Voltaire is right, because there are metaphysical questions that are often asked, like Why am I here, purpose etc.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Metaphysical questions are rubbish from start to finish-mental masturbation. Further not all questions {mostly metaphysical} aren't valid.
  
  Why is a person here? Their parents had sex or the lady had an IVF procedure.
  
  Purpose? If one needs a 'purpose' they can give themselves one and change it when they like.
  
  As for 'divine purpose,' what if one's entire reason for being was to distract someone for a moment as an infant by puking all over someone else.
  
  Now their 'purpose' has been fulfilled, should they die or be killed?
  
  I can see the 'purpose' of myriad theists are to be bad examples.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  stoneyy--do you have an upset stomach? You have mentioned puke a couple of times in your last couple of posts.
  I do hope you are feeling well, if not, maybe you could try chewing on a little yellow root. Takes the quease right away.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mum, you're right on time to dishonestly, and cowardly avoid the points raised. Then y'all can't figure out why you're being laughed at. Gotta love that Xian cowardice, dishonesty, and ignorance that is Christian Morality[tm].
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Excuse you grand stoenyy, you seemed to have mistaken me for todays xian.
  Bad. Ignorant? Made fun of? me? SOOOOOOOO what. Should I cry now? Would that make you feel so manly?
  Coward? Dishonest? Save those flowers for yourself my friend.
  You dont think I am keeping up. It figures. You see, you are the one who is behind. I thought you were not feeling too well. So, I offered you a little advice, that would have helped your upset belly. Oh, and in case you still have your blinders on, the yellow root, it is the root of a plant found alongside a creek. You now, a NATURE thing. Oh yeah, and it works. Go figure. It is from Nature, it works, in its original state, no additives needed. Get that from science. You cant.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're so full of Xian love mom. You follow your father, Satan, well.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mercy. So opinionated. Or maybe just plain ole rude. Whichever, I was just trying to be neighborly. Didn't mean to cause all that negative energy.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I leave the rudeness to Xians like you, although I have a tendency to reflect it back. No, you weren't trying to be 'neighborly.'
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  stoneyy, sticks and stones.....
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luvpassionposted 14 years ago
Most Native tribes lived in harmony with nature and everything around them, they believed in a Universal Being already without outside influence.

"The Indian loved to worship. From birth to death, he revered his surroundings. He considered himself born in the luxurious lap of Mother Earth, and no place was to him humble. There was nothing between him and the Big Holy (Wakan Tanka). The contact was immediate and personal, and the blessings of Wakan Tanka flowed over the Indian like rain showered from the sky. Wakan Tanka was not aloof, apart, and ever seeking to quell evil forces. He did not punish the animals and the birds, and likewise, he did not punish man. He was not a punishing god. For there was never a question as to the supremacy of an evil power over and above the power of Good. There was but one ruling power, and that was Good."
-Chief Luther Standing Bear -
Teton Sioux, Born 1868

I think we can learn much from them spiritually.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And I've never heard of a Native American trying to convert non-Natives to their tribal religion. Have you?
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Shil1978posted 14 years ago
No, it was never right and would never be right!! Who is to say who ends up in 'heaven' or 'hell.' What right does anyone have to impose his/her religious views on others. To supposedly 'save' people, many native peoples and their cultural identities have been wiped out. Can that EVER be right?
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, via the stone-age 'might makes right' mindset of the Abrahamic superstitions, for one.
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leebertteaposted 14 years ago
We can't and shouldn't assume that people that accept the teachings of missionaries do so by use of force. People decide whether or not they want to accept those teachings, and to do so probably isn't easy, they have to overcome years of long held beliefs, traditions and customs and do so in the face of their peers friends and families. Let's give these converts some credit for having the courage to make up their own minds.
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed, during the late part of the 19th century and early part of the 20th century, government agents sought to eradicate the Sun Dance among Plains Indian nations and to ban the peyote religion wherever they encountered it.
  
  State officials especially targeted peyote worship, classifying the cactus as a narcotic on a level with cocaine or hashish, even though the evidence suggests peyote is not addictive.
  
  Government officials also sought to extinguish communal dances among Pueblo Indians, potlatch ceremonies among northwestern tribes, world renewal ceremonies in northern California, fiestas in southern California, and other traditional practices. They assumed traditional ceremonies made Native men and women militant, pagan, and wasteful. They sought to replace these with Christianity.
  
  During this period, the United States and Canada compelled Native children to attend boarding schools. In these institutions, teachers sought to force Indians to conform to white ways of acting, dressing, and believing.
  
  Facing these pressures from government authorities, all Native Americans developed ways to accommodate a hostile and powerful culture, without capitulating entirely or surrendering to despair
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  leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Government intervention in people's lives is never good. I'm sure they justified it at the time and probably most of the European Americans at the time thought this policy was for the good of the natives.
  
  We have to be very wary of institutions that claim to be acting for our own good. Those decisions are best left up to individuals.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  leebertteaposted 6 days ago
  
  We can't and shouldn't assume that people that accept the teachings of missionaries do so by use of force."
  
  Cue the US christian government concerning the Native Americans. Teaching the languages, culture, and customs were banned. Cue the elimination of tribal names by christian government fiat.
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wildorangeflowerposted 14 years ago
In a way this is how a new culture is developed through assimilation or transfer of culture when one country or other people introduced a new way of living or belief to other culture
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  but if we keep imposing western culture upon others, there will be a point when there will be no diversity. Do you think that will be a good thing?
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  Shil1978posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That would be oh so boring, wouldn't it? Everything would be the same - no diversity at all. Of course, it won't be a good thing. So much of history has been lost in the pursuit of 'saving' people from 'pagan' practices!!
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Mc-city {mcdonalds} concept has spread throughout the US and is swallowing the world.
  
  Cities have become almost faceless with the chain business' from sea to shining sea.' The only change is the designator of the Mc-city.
  
  Virginia Beach, VA., used to have diversity and vibrancy. It was a jumping and fun place. Not anymore. It's now Mc-same.
  
  I was saddened to find a Pizza Slut at the foot of Edinburgh Castle in Scotland some years ago.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So thats it. McCity made you sick.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No Mum. Cowardly and dishonest Xians like you make me sick.
  
  Do at least *try* to keep up.
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ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago
IS it the right for the europeans to live in the USA and conquer tribal natives?

it happened, yeah. people are stupid this way. But it works out in the end.
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pcoachposted 14 years ago
In an effort to stick with the question at hand, Is it right to convert them? Are you kidding? Did someone put a gun to their heads to make them convert? Or did they receive kindness and aid from people who happen to be Christian who don't care what their ideology is? The only qualification you need is to be a human being and they want to help. Welcome sister and hallelujah!!!! Stick your religions sideways, okay? If Christianity IS "the big hoax" or the "darkest con on mankind," I'll take it compared to Islam any day of the week. As far as I am concerned, until we can get our borders under control in all aspects, not just Mexico but ALL foreign immigrants, I say we STOP ALLOWING ISLAMIC PERSONS IN THIS COUNTRY. I care more about the safety of my children and grandchild LIVING IN THE PIT OF HELL IN PHOENIX than I do about your blinkin' religion or hurting your feelings. Go ahead, rip me up for that, by all means. You have the floor, regardless of how ridiculous you may sound. Go for it. I've said my piece and I'm leaving this room before people who do not agree with me try to ream me a new behind. Discussion is one thing but to not even hear the other arguments or comments, well, you get what you reap.
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  pcoachposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Correction, you reap what you sow!!!!!! It was not incorredt to say you get what you reap, but I felt I needed to come back and clarify, YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW. Now, sorry to delay your inevitable(sp?) reaming. You have the floor.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  pcoachposted 4 days ago
  
  "In an effort to stick with the question at hand, Is it right to convert them?"
  
  No, it isn't.
  
  "Are you kidding?"
  
  Not at all.
  
  "Did someone put a gun to their heads to make them convert? "
  
  In many cases, just so.
  
  "Or did they receive kindness and aid from people who happen to be Christian who don't care what their ideology is?"
  
  Their motivation wasn't kindness and aid. Their goal was cultural destruction from the start.
  
  Of course, like thieves in the night, Christians had to slink in like the slime they were.
  
  That said, there are Christians who do, and did, just that provide aid. They kept their religion as a private matter and left the people who they were guests of alone.
  
  "I say we STOP ALLOWING ISLAMIC PERSONS IN THIS COUNTRY. I care more about the safety of my children and grandchild LIVING IN THE PIT OF HELL IN PHOENIX than I do about your blinkin' religion or hurting your feelings."
  
  Another 'Ugly Christian' raises his head. How sadly common.
  
  Slave, you're ordered to thank your daemon deity construct for the phoenix hell pit which was lovingly given.
  
  The Native Americans, I'm sure have been saying that for a few hundred years now. So, when are you leaving?
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
"Morals, if I had none, I would have chewed you up and spit you out by now"
I'd like to see you trying to do that! It would amuse the hell outta me for one thing.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, I have before. Lately though the mood hasnt struck. You know, choosing my battles. I mean, I am just an ole country girl from the hills of Tn. Gots a little bit of bear in me.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where abouts, if I may ask. Tennessee's a beautiful state although its been many years since I've explored it.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  South east. Between Knoxville and Chattanooga.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for the response, Mom.
  
  Offers Mom a virtual cuppa coffee.
  
  I sat here for a few minutes to see what might arise out of my destroyed memory tracks.
  
  I remember you could hardly see the scenery for all the billboards. Washing machines on porches {good use of space}, flashes of the Smokey Mtns., and lake water that was almost of bathtub temperature.
  
  A place called "Granny's,' I think, which advertised the worst coffee in the world-they were right.
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Greek Oneposted 14 years ago
After Mark, I'm going to convert Earnest.. and then that is the last one... I promise.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  perhaps a long and difficult task!
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  nah. Mark's a shoe in
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Only if the shoe fits.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i have one for him, and the other for you...
  
  wouldn't you want me as a Godfather, other than some of the more 'aggressive' on here??
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well I guess so! I mean you always give me a good belly laugh, and you even see the funny side of things!
  
  A believer with a sense of humour? Very novel!
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and this week only... conversions are only $3!!
  
  (I'm charging Mark $4.. but I like you better...
  
  this week only)
  
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm just a simple mechanically minded man, What are we converting to ..... LPG?
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  stop asking questions.. you born again types are all the same.. just send me the $3!!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How much is $3? With our dollar fallin outta bed again I could wind up owin ya 1,000s!
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's the risk you take for being holy
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I may have to renounce myself!
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  many others have
  
  now that was so funny even an earth fairy would laugh at it.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that sounds painful
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is! I did it a few times before. Worse than walking on broken glass apparently!
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  mega1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  now that is funny
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mega1posted 14 years ago
There are a few religions that really believe they are superior human beings and need to convert all others to their way. They generally miss all the beauty and diversity in the world because of their basic insecurity that allows them to narrow their vision so completely they don't even see all the wisdom and knowledge that has been here far longer than they have been here! So, yes, I believe it is wrong for Christians to go around trying to convert people of any kind and make them more like them, just so they can feel comfortable with all the sameness. It is more than wrong, it is despicable and destructive.
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  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "There are a few religions that really believe they are superior human beings and need to convert all others to their way."
  
  What religions believe they are superior human beings?
  
  Can you convert someone into being superior?
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  mega1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you can see and decide for yourself - probably most religions believe their way is superior and that they are superior humans for believing what they do. That's the way they talk and behave so I come to that conclusion - don't want to get in trouble with you guys here but I see alot of those people in our religious forums quoting their bible and acting like they are the only ones who know all the answers.
  
  oh, and they try to lead people to believe that if they will only act and behave the way they do that they, too, will be superior.
  
  If you disagree just say so instead of asking me these questions - you can see that I've already stated what I believe.
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  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't have asked if I knew the answer.
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  Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Christians came among the people and stole their ways of life, forced them to become "clean". The old ways are gone forever. It was part of progress. This is perhaps the biggest sin that christians have to answer for, and their own god is watching.
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klarawieckposted 14 years ago
mom101,

You are playing nice... but let me warn you... them skeptics can get pretty rowdy and nasty. Watch out! Don't let them get under your skin.

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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I hear ya
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, and in answer to your question, No, I don't think the Natives should be converted. I believe they are much more closer to Nature than we are. Do you think we could learn from them?
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Definitely!
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Immeasurably. :wave:
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ahorsebackposted 14 years ago
Al religions peddle converion, why pick on cristians , but you're right they do. Is it wrong ?, if you're politically correct it is. Is it right? It's up the convertee, isn't it?
More than this though there is a concerted effort by the western world to manifest "goodness" politically thats whats going on everywhere. All else is is just a sideshow........
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Even if that were biblically accurate, which I believe it is not, this would still be a decision made by someone suffering a psychosis, not a god.
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alternate poetposted 14 years ago
I have been taking a look at religion/spirituality here in the China of today for a hub. If you just believe me when I say it is good stuff and we should all be doing it (I can tell what IT is later) - now who is up for a holy mission to mormon land where we will go knocking door to door and sell this to the natives ?

Sign up below.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'll pass... it's too hot and dry in Utah!
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It would be the natural thing to do.
  
  Do ya think that the natives know that they need it?
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is ok - we are going to give them a handful of beads, a few deadly deseases, make an example of a tribe or two by nailing them up somewhere, then wee are going to teach them a real language from our book and keep them at it till they GOT IT !!~!
  
  Then we are going to enslave the ones who aren't dead yet, any that refuse we will massacre then send the women, children and old men to live in some crappy desert somewhere. But they will get the word , just have to figure out some wildly improbable and patently stupid bulldust to feed 'em.
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rolling...............
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Is it right for Christians to convert tribal natives?

If the natives understand the facts and they are not tricked into believing; then there is no harm in it.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
For there to be "no harm in it" you would need to rewrite most of history!
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  stoneyyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That isn't a problem for them.
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CkhoffmanKposted 14 years ago
Nobody should force anybody to come to their religion. It's sickening and a form of massive control.

Especially given the christian past of slaughtering those who dont convert. sick.
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mythbusterposted 14 years ago
Conversion of entire cultural groups is about power and oppression, in my estimation, not about spirituality or the benefits of following any chosen deity.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Ask the Australian "stolen generation" what they think of it!
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klarawieckposted 14 years ago
Have you ever seen a Native American trying to get people to convert and believe in WakanTanka?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Now that you mention it............ no I haven't.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can't believe this forum is still going! LOL
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed! It can be answered with an emphatic NO!!!! Mythbuster nailed it.
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ahorsebackposted 14 years ago
Always so much devisiveness in the answers , No? , why not reason?Isn't Any religion is good for a society. Why not christianity too? What is it about order and spreading goodness in any society that bothers you people so much. Example ,If you go to the store and buy something , you bought it didn't you? Yes, someone sold you something , but you bought it Christianity ,like any religion , is a choice.
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  klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but how many people really love having the AVON lady wake them up on a Sunday morning? Or the Jehova Witnesses for that matter!
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  ketouposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You could always shoo the AVON lady away
  
  Some might even buy the AVON product. So if you look at it, the lady is benefiting some people else she won't be wasting her time going house to house.
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ketouposted 14 years ago
I don't know what is wrong with tribals converting.

We always feel that we are better than them just because we are a little "formally educated" and so ask these questions. Just because they are uneducated does not mean that they cannot decide what is best for themselves.

If they want to convert, let them convert. If they do not want, then will not convert. Or should we choose for them?

If there is a problem that christians (or any other religion) are going and converting them, why don't others go and tell them that the tribal life is the best with the same zeal as these christians if they care so much. Or do we just care about conversions because we want to see diversity or are against some religion?
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alternate poetposted 14 years ago
Missionaries are best boiled with garlic, carrots and loads of onions, no salt needed as they are full to the brim with corcodile tears about anything, but which are really just for them - the stench of hypocrisy should be skimmed from the top regularly and tehn feed the whole mess to the pigs. Or roasted on a spit over their very own hellfire.
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