How does a religious person contradict having a mind?

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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
-How does a religious person contradict having a mind?

How does a religious person or person of grouped belief contradict having a mind?
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  Jawa Lunkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Could you clarify your question?
  
  Are you asking for proof that one can be religious and still intelligent, or stating that anyone who claims religion is incapable of having a mind of their own?
  
  Complete and coherent sentences in questions usually help.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It is complete unless you seek interpretation. I'm stating that anyone that claims religion contradicts having a mind. Why is this?
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  Maximus591posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think what he's attempting to say is : Can those who profess religious belief also have a mind that can think independently of those religious beliefs. His implication is that it cannot. Therefore, you cannot truly have your own mind if it's been filled and polluted with religious hogwash.
  
  It's a primitive suppostion of course, but one not without an element of truth to it.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank You. Nothing to add.
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  Dark knight ridesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Some of the greatest thinkers ever were religious. They were able to look at the universe and see things in it that today we take for granted. Copernicus and Galileo were both Christians, who used their minds to examine that beauty of a universe and question why it worked like it did. Einstein was a believer, and his mind was genius.
  
  For the average person, many of whom cannot hold two thoughts in their heads at once, the idea that "religious hogwash" can coexist with genius and innovation may seem impossible. But that's probably because some haven't really made an effort to open their mind to conflicting ideas. Should try it, it's fun.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What you just wrote is hogwash. Your simple mind uses individuals that had genius ability so you can justify your ridiculous faith. Again, just because a person is genius in one area doesn't mean they are genius in all. A person that believes the bible rejects logic for faith. Again, a person can have genius ability in one area and be completely ignorant in others. I apologize if you can't understand this. It's not in your belief book.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you would have read previous post's instead of jumping to the last to comment, you would see that you are repetitive.
  
  This has already been tried. Try something new.
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  Paragliderposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Marine - I'd be a little bit more careful, if I were you. Several people have observed that your original post is not well framed. They are correct. It is unclear. When you want to challenge, it's best to do it from a position of strength.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank You. I thought about that. I would rather appear weak to be underestimated.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Every person has a mind
  How they use it, is another matter.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If someone relies on others to define their belief or non belief, they are contradicting having an individual mind to create their individual belief. This is what I was trying to get at.
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  Maximus591posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But if their mind has been contaminated through religious nonsense, then how they use their mind is no longer down to free thought. The religious nonsense stored within their heads will act as a filter which then determines exactly how they use their mind. In effect, religious people possess a mind that has become strangled through the religious hokum they choose to believe without question.
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  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well the same thing could be said of someone that is an atheist or someone that has had their mind contaminated with the theory of evolution. Like religion they are both a faith belief too, because they can't prove their belief either. So being an atheist or someone that believes in the theory of evolution will effect the way you think or how your mind works as well.
  
  So marinealways24's stupid questions could be rephrased like this.
  
  How does an atheist contradict having a mind?
  
  How does an atheist or person of grouped belief in evolution contradict having a mind?
  
  I mean these forums are proof of how atheism or evolution contaminates a mind. Basically why bother to be concerned if you don't believe. The fact that so many atheists are concerned about someone else's belief and even attack it shows that atheism detrimentally effects your minds.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ha Mike.. well said. May be if the atheist have never heard the small quiet voice. or been kicked out of the way of a runaway train by an invisible boot. That kinda thing does open a person's mind.
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  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah I'd say so Jerami.
  
  Maybe the voice the atheist heard wasn't small and quiet or maybe they got a boot for no apparent reason.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I guess that I'm a bit naive. I was 18 before I was aware that there were things such as Gays, bisexuals, or perverts. It never dawned on me that there were as many nonbelievers as there are. I thought that everyone had a little buddy sitin on their shoulder whispering in their ear. "if ya go down that road you might get stuck in tha mud". or " ha man ya better check and see if..." many times I was courageous and went down that road anyway, I didn't ALWAYS get stuck. And sometimes I didn't stop and check if ... and something didn't always fall off when I didn't check.
  Any way if I didn't have my little buddy; who knows? I might not believe in him either.
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  jenblacksheepposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Neither evolution or atheism is a 'faith belief'. I suppose you could say evolution is a belief, I'm not entirely sure I agree. But atheism is the LACK of a belief or faith in a God, not the belief or faith in the lack of God. There's a difference.
  
  However, I think Marine's question is based on a big assumption: that everyone starts from a position of belief and that atheism comes from a struggle against those beliefs, and that people who remain in a position of belief are just blind followers. Which is complete rubbish.
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  Maximus591posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There is no God in atheism. And neither are there a set of beliefs with which atheists must adhere to in order to live their lives.
  
  Yes, believing in the truth of evolution does affect how my mind works. But crucially, a belief system of worship, of God, of adherence to supernatural nonsense does not arise as a consequence of my belief in the truth of evolution. It's a neutral position not dependent on an external force.
  
  I can be an atheist and live my life unhindered and unfettered by atheistic faith because atheism has no faith. All your point does is highlight to atheists the magnitude of your contamination by a nonsense faith.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I hate to tell you, but believers are not going to get this. You see, they think atheist are being manipulated by the Devil, so anything you say can't be absorbed by them, because the bias is too heavy.
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  Smirelesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I hate to tell YOU this but you have no understanding of what believers think. I am constantly amazed when I hear the nonsense coming from a group of people who vow they do not believe in God, but keep coming back to the discussion to tell believers how stupid, ignorant, and sheep like they follow the Bible and whoever is leading the church where they attend.
  
  Jesus Christ said, "Whosoever will let him come and drink of the water of life freely." That means it is a choice. I choose to follow Jesus Christ because of my faith in Jesus Christ, not a bunch of rules and regs issued by the "Church".
  
  Contrary to what you have stated, I do NOT believe that you all are being manipulated by the devil. God gives everyone a choice. I choose to believe. You choose not to believe. That is the end of it. I am perfectly happy to follow Jesus Christ. I do not live in fear of hell or anything else.
  
  I believe that when this live ends I will be in the Presence of the Lord. You think it will be all over. Only one of us is right. To be honest, I do not really care. I am sorry for you but beyond that it is your choice. I made my choice a long time ago and it has served me well.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, just make sure that you understand Jesus Christ's words, the time he lived and the real understanding your suppose to get from his words.
  
  I'm being serious- if you simply want to believe in Jesus Christ and you consider him your god- then that would be good not bad, because he was a real person and his teachings were meant for the betterment of humanity.
  
  How ever, do not put Jesus Christ in the SAME category with religion.
  
  Jesus was NOT a prophet!
  
  Jesus was NOT a god(even though he saw himself as a god)!
  
  Jesus was NOT a minister of religion!
  
  Yes, Jesus was jewish born, but he wasn't a religious person.
  
  He didn't preach religion- He Preached Life!
  
  The reason I said that you need to understand the time he lived, is to understand where mankind was and what was happening around Jesus Christ, which is what drove him to preach Life to followers.
  
  If you don't know that- then the context of what you read is going to end up being wrong. I just wanted to let you know.
  
  Stay away from religion. It has no basis in life. I just recently wrote a new hub about some complete research I have on Life and it's meaning.(not self-promoting)
  
  It's sure to give you something to think about, especially with regards to religion.
  
  Remember, religion was made by man- because government and religious leaders believed mankind MUST answer to a higher authority otherwise there would be chaos.
  
  Meaning, YOU can't control your own life and must be told how to live and what to think?
  
  Utter nonsense in reality.
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  Smirelesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There have always been power hungry individuals who know what is best for the rest of the world. Always have been and always will be. We see quite a few of them in our government today.
  
  I am well versed in scripture as well as in the history of the time of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ did teach life and he certainly did not agree with the religious leaders of the day. However, he did not try to destroy the law of Moses. He was not even against the law of Moses.
  
  I have to disagree with you about who Jesus Christ was. He was God manifested in the flesh. He died and rose from the dead. You see, I am a true believer. As I said earlier, my faith has served me well and I have no doubts.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I was a believer once. And I was told by my clergy that atheist were just like Eve, in the Garden of Eden--being tricked by Satan.
  
  I think it's admirable if YOU really don't judge that way.
  
  It is a choice...you chose one way, I chose another.
  I respect your choice. I just don't agree with the Philosphy(Christianity) that you have chosen.
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  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You have been brainwashed dear. You need to deprogram. Evolution is not truth. A theory is not a truth. The definition of theory is "a belief that can guide behavior".
  
  Exactly what I have been saying. Your behavior is guided by your belief in evolution or as an atheist.
  
  But so is mine as a Christian. The point that I am making, which is not a theory but the truth is that we are all guided by our belief.
  
  Being an atheist or believing in the theory of evolution are not neutral positions. You have to decide to believe that on your own accord. Thus your belief system effects your thinking just the same way anyone else's belief system does.
  
  As an atheist your life is not unhindered. Strange as it seems your atheist belief system is obviously effecting your life to the point of going out of your way to have this conversation. Now note that with the majority of discussions between atheists and believers it is generally the atheists that are on the offensive while believers are defending, like this and many other threads. Can you not see how strange and obsessive that is? I mean why bother worrying about what anyone else believes?
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  Maximus591posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Again you miss the point. Missing the point seems to be a recurring theme for you right now. lol
  
  Atheism does not form the bedrock in which to build a belief system upon like christianity does. Christianity has evolved a set of core beliefs (or superstitions as most non-believers would call them) to base their whole pathetic lives around. Atheism has no such core belief system. Atheists do not surrender themselves meekly to nonsensical superstitions and pie-in-the-sky belief systems. Much of what christianity is about, is foundered on the 'fear principle' - if you do not believe then something truly awful will happen (You go to hell) The more robustly you can cling to your beliefs the greater your confidence will be in repelling your fears. These fears are not real of course, they are purely imaginary... they have been stoked deep inside you from the day you became a believer. Much of what you believe is an elaborate construction to both heighten your fears (through paraniod religious doctrine) and a placation of your fears (God is here to save you) than any real, living breathing, fear.
  
  But the one big question here is why have you bought into it? The price you paid for your ticket is a high one, it's the price of your life.
  
  I think i have the answer tho! Clearly, when neural networks were being formed in your brain at an early age, your 'God network' was probably just that little bit more developed than most. As to why that was, who cares... maybe you're from a fervently religious family. Your 'God network' inside your brain is now pretty much set. Even tho we all possess malleable brains, you look a little long in the tooth (based on your picture) to have any real hope of becoming anything different to what you currently are. You will die an old man with your God network still firmly rooted within your brain.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How old are you sweetie?
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you, the first bit anyway, However I believe in a God that lives and Guides me through His Holy Spirit. So I don't just use the bible as my guide,following a set pattern of rules and regulations, but listen to my conscience and try to be obedient to my convictions. I am not perfect as non of us are and who knows maybe only when we pass from this world will we be. So why do I do this? Because I choose to. We all have freedom of will and can do what we want to, listen to whom we will and come up with our own type of religion should we choose.
  We all have different personalities built up with different characteristics, such as envy,hatred,kindness and love, to name but a few. So I have a hard look at myself and ask myself what type of person do I want to be? I take the bad and the good and make a decision. Yes my decision can contradict my natural ways, but with time I have found with God at my side I have or am not liking the so called bad personality traits. And hence I wish to turn from them and be so called good.
  So point being my freedom of will is still mine because I choose.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:RkC … mp;ct=clnk
  
  Nobel Laureates and scientists who believe in God
  
  by Todd Hebert
  
  Nobelists.net has a free e-book called “50 Nobel Laureates and Other Great Scientists Who Believe in God.” Not a very catchy title, but an interesting little 146 page read.
  
  The book is comprised mostly of quotes from scientists, writers and philosophers. The purpose of the book, from the author’s introduction: “I believe that this book will inspire believers, that it will give hope to seekers and that it will challenge those who think that religion and contemporary science are in an insurmountable conflict.”
  
  Here is a sampling of some the more interesting quotes from the e-book:
  
  * “When it comes to the origin of life there are only two possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation. There is no third way. Spontaneous generation was disproved one hundred years ago, but that leads us to only one other conclusion, that of supernatural creation. We cannot accept that on philosophical grounds; therefore, we choose to believe the impossible: that life arose spontaneously by chance!”
  George Wald- Nobel Laureate in medicine and physiology
  
  * To the question, “Many prominent scientists – including Darwin, Einstein, and Planck – have considered the concept of God very seriously. What are your thoughts on the concept of God and on the existence of God?”
  Christian Anfinsen replied: “I think only an idiot can be an atheist. We must admit that there exists an incomprehensible power or force with limitless foresight and knowledge that started the whole universe going in the first place.”
  Christian Anfinsen- Nobel Laureate in chemistry
  
  * To the Lord, whom I worship and thank,
  That governs the heavens with His eyelid
  To Him I return tired, but full of living.”
  Galileo- founder of experimental physics
  
  * In the beginning of his Meditations (1641) Descartes wrote:
  “I have always been of the opinion that the two questions respecting God and the Soul were the chief of those that ought to be determined by help of Philosophy rather than of
  Theology; for although to us, the faithful, it be sufficient to hold as matters of faith, that the human soul does not perish with the body, and that God exists, it yet assuredly seems impossible ever to persuade infidels of the reality of any religion, or almost even any moral virtue, unless, first of all, those two things be proved to them by natural reason. And since in this life there are frequently greater rewards held out to vice than to virtue, few would prefer the right to the useful, if they were restrained neither by the fear of God nor the expectation of another life.”
  Rene Descartes- founder of Analytical Geometry and modern philosophy
  
  * “The impossibility of conceiving that this grand and wondrous universe, with our conscious selves, arose through chance, seems to me the chief argument for
  the existence of God.”
  Charles Darwin- founder of the Theory of Evolution
  
  * “In good philosophy, the word cause ought to be reserved to the single Divine impulse that has formed the universe.”
  Louis Pasteur- founder of microbiology and immunology
  
  * “Tonight I was in a meditative mood. I was absorbed in the contemplation of nature; I admired the immensity, the movements, the harmony of those infinite globes.
  I admired still more the Intelligence which directs these vast forces. I said to myself: ‘One must be blind not to be dazzled by this spectacle; one must be stupid not to recognize the Author of it; one must be mad not to worship Him’.”
  Voltaire- French philosopher one of the most influential thinkers of the Enlightenment
  
  * You accept the historical Jesus?
  - Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”
  Albert Einstein, from an interview with the Saturday Evening Post
  
  I guess for you all these great minds are not individual thinkers , have no self awareness and definitely no mind.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  being religious is being a mindless robot that will do and believe anythinig it was told that's why they don't like non believer's, they use their brains too much instead of leaving things to chance=)
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  * “When it comes to the origin of life there are only two possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation. There is no third way. Spontaneous generation was disproved one hundred years ago, but that leads us to only one other conclusion, that of supernatural creation. We cannot accept that on philosophical grounds; therefore, we choose to believe the impossible: that life arose spontaneously by chance!”
  George Wald- Nobel Laureate in medicine and physiology
  
  * To the question, “Many prominent scientists – including Darwin, Einstein, and Planck – have considered the concept of God very seriously. What are your thoughts on the concept of God and on the existence of God?”
  Christian Anfinsen replied: “I think only an idiot can be an atheist. We must admit that there exists an incomprehensible power or force with limitless foresight and knowledge that started the whole universe going in the first place.”
  Christian Anfinsen- Nobel Laureate in chemistry
  
  * To the Lord, whom I worship and thank,
  That governs the heavens with His eyelid
  To Him I return tired, but full of living.”
  Galileo- founder of experimental physics
  
  * In the beginning of his Meditations (1641) Descartes wrote:
  “I have always been of the opinion that the two questions respecting God and the Soul were the chief of those that ought to be determined by help of Philosophy rather than of
  Theology; for although to us, the faithful, it be sufficient to hold as matters of faith, that the human soul does not perish with the body, and that God exists, it yet assuredly seems impossible ever to persuade infidels of the reality of any religion, or almost even any moral virtue, unless, first of all, those two things be proved to them by natural reason. And since in this life there are frequently greater rewards held out to vice than to virtue, few would prefer the right to the useful, if they were restrained neither by the fear of God nor the expectation of another life.”
  Rene Descartes- founder of Analytical Geometry and modern philosophy
  
  * “The impossibility of conceiving that this grand and wondrous universe, with our conscious selves, arose through chance, seems to me the chief argument for
  the existence of God.”
  Charles Darwin- founder of the Theory of Evolution
  
  * “In good philosophy, the word cause ought to be reserved to the single Divine impulse that has formed the universe.”
  Louis Pasteur- founder of microbiology and immunology
  
  * “Tonight I was in a meditative mood. I was absorbed in the contemplation of nature; I admired the immensity, the movements, the harmony of those infinite globes.
  I admired still more the Intelligence which directs these vast forces. I said to myself: ‘One must be blind not to be dazzled by this spectacle; one must be stupid not to recognize the Author of it; one must be mad not to worship Him’.”
  Voltaire- French philosopher one of the most influential thinkers of the Enlightenment
  
  * You accept the historical Jesus?
  - Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”
  Albert Einstein, from an interview with the Saturday Evening Post
  
  These people are acknowledged brains and and are famous for their great minds and not for their stupidity or foolish beliefs.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  nobody's perfect=)
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thats is not the point here, the point is that there have been many great minds who do believe in a higher force and see the intelligence of the universe as proof of that.
  Many of these great minds have been scientists so plaese leave
  science and logic out of the picture when trying to discredit believers.
  They are not stupid people with a blind faith and no self awareness.
  How does a religious person contradict having a mind?
  What a sad question.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  and there are even more unrecognized greater minds that don't belive in stuff like that because they don;t mix logic with fantasies=)
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOGIC= * “Tonight I was in a meditative mood. I was absorbed in the contemplation of nature; I admired the immensity, the movements, the harmony of those infinite globes.
  I admired still more the Intelligence which directs these vast forces. I said to myself: ‘One must be blind not to be dazzled by this spectacle; one must be stupid not to recognize the Author of it; one must be mad not to worship Him’.”
  Voltaire- French philosopher one of the most influential thinkers of the Enlightenment
  = LOGIC
  
  "Either you can see the magic,
  Or your life is indeed tragic. "
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  You have no logic! You believe you are a chosen prophet! Ignorance!
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  I don't believe in the virgin birth, the talking snake, tha living inside a whale, the turning water into wine, you're right, my people are stupid=)
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The above are really not important what is important is that there is a supreme entity and we can make contact with it, become it- God.
  That is the message of the prophets.
  
  Look at the precision and intelligence all around you, it is simply mind blowing.
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi topgunjager.
  Believe what you will, it is your choice.
  I would like to ask you about life though. How are we possibly here? Are we and all beings on earth not some form of phenomenon? How does it all knit together. How was it started.
  If I can believe that we exist why can't God?
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  there you go, how are we possibly here? so you're only answer is because there is a god, because that's the only possibility right? how can you claim such things that nobody can prove? i have a suggestion for you, instead of preaching about god all the time, why don't you help the needy people, help feed the hungry children in the world and help make someone's unfortunate life better, if there is a God and he's the "epitome of good" i'm sure he wouldn't mind if you didn't worship him so much and start showing real care for all his children, i'm sure if there is a god he didn't put us here with the main purpose of giving him attention and sucking up to him. your preaching will never be as loud as people's acts of kindness so if you truly believe that being good is the only way, then why don't you try doing good things instead of preaching good things=)
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Excellent post mohitmisra.
  
  It seems even Charles Darwin believed in God at least at one point in his life.
  
  I love this Mo. You single handedly showed how stupid and idiotic marinealways24's question is. Thanks
  
  Case closed. Full stop.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  thank you for proving things that matters, you should send your words of wisdom to africa, maybe it will rain food and clothes over there=)
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I heard that Darwin tried to renounce his work on his deathbed. How true that is, I have not idea. How can anybody believe His theory without proof is anybodies guess. I believe; because God is active in my life in that He teaches, rebukes and shows me how to live my life and that is all the proof I need. Something real not just a theory.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i prayed to god and humpty dumpty last night and got the same results, i wonder how that happened=)
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  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  For sure Paul, it is very rational to believe in God.
  
  Yeah I've read that Darwin became a Christian before he died. But we'd never convince an 'orthodox believing atheist' of that.
  
  Stop making that devil symbol topgunjager and say aw. Okay you can put your tongue back in now, you don't look infected.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  afraid i can't say the same thing about your face=) just kidding, god bless you=)
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You silly religious sheep. I would like you to quote any of the great minds you or mohit mentioned saying that they believe the bible. You and him are purposely trying to confuse the 2.
  
  A logical mind can believe in a creator when it can't be proven wrong. A logical mind will "not" believe your silly book of belief. The bible contradicts logic. No matter the qualifications, if a person believes the bible, their faith is based on contradictions and simple psychology. A person can have a logical mind and ideas in 1 area and be completely assumptive in others in search of belief.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Welcome
  I am a science graduate and studied Spherical Trigonometry and the Celestial sphere as a Navigating Officer in the Merchant Navy, I am not against science.
  
  "One needs to be in a similar vibration to understand me or else he will call me a fool" Guru Nanak
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  prettydarkhorseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Guru Nanak???
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Sikh, poet/prophet.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Darwin believed in a creator or believed the bible? There is a huge difference. Your simple mind does not understand this.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You think you have something here? How many said they believe the bible word for word? You are reaching. Many can still be open to creation when it can't be proven wrong. No logical sane mind is open to the bible when it is full of contradictions and childish psychology to capture believers. If any of the people you mentioned do believe the bible, they are as silly as you are prophet.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are we talking of the Holy Bible only or are we talking about god?
  The Bible is full of parables and has great depth, don't take many things literately as you will miss out on the meaning.
  
  What you need to do is meditate and gain some self awareness then you will not ask people what faith you belong to or make stupid posts like this one.
  
  The mystics way is contradictions as ying and yang, male and female both exist, but one needs to be spiritually evolved to understand this.
  
  Yo are the silly person, very silly person
  Is it not possible for you to impart some knowledge , have an intelligent debate or all you can do is resort to this childish banter.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  how can you even say that knowing the crap that you preach? why would you judge me because i don't agree with and see what you're saying? i'm silly? how can you expect people to respect you talking the way you talk, you can't even behave like a decent human being when all i did was ask you questions? it's not my fault you have crap answers my friend, maybe you should relearn who you are mr. bliss=)
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am answering your questions and not being rude, lets just debate and stop this name calling bull shit.Try writing a book on religious philosophy before calling me names.
  What is crap for you and beyond your understanding is not for me.
  I wrote in response to marineallways and not you, so take a chill pill.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  it would be nice for you to act like what you preach=)
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am a nice person but I am not here on this planet to take yours or anyone's nonsense, there are many who value the knowledge I impart .My work will help humanity for thousands of years to come .
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The knowledge you impart? Guess what? Your book sucks. Enough with your silly book promotions prophet. Just because you have a book ranked on amazon doesn't mean you know more than me or anyone else. You speak of self awareness, but you have no self awareness. You are just an arrogant wannabe prophet book hustler trying to protect your faith and book sales.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi idiot ,was wondering where you were.Proved you wrong over the stupid remarks you made about people believing in god having no mind, don't tell me you are still feeling bad as I will beat you in a debate any time, accept it.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Like you proved on the "Are You A Prophet" Thread I started?
  
  All you prove is how ignorant your mind can become when it's overpowered by faith.
  
  Tell all of the good people on this forum thread that you are the chosen prophet and we should all listen to you.
  
  Do you have the balls to do that? You had no problems promoting your prophethood on the other thread.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Go read other thread and stop jumping to stupid conclusion , I have said this since I entered this forum.
  Do you have the balls to write a book of religious philosophy as your brains must be in your balls.
  
  I have told you , you can take the help of any ten friends you know.Sorry that was very unfair lets make that twenty friends you know.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You a separatist just like the crap you preach. If you had self awareness, you would recognize this.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  <snipped - no personal attacks in the Forums>
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you're right, the thing i preach about helping little hungry kids that god forgot to bless is nonesense, sorry=)
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  When did I say this? Why are you fabricating all this?
  Do feed the poor and hungry no one is telling you not too.You don't know god so you believe you are greater than him .
  The truth is he is giving you so you can share with others.
  
  From my book"Ponder Awhile"
  
  "Security I can understand,
  But generosity must go hand in hand."
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  scroll up friend, you told me you don't plan to take anyone's nonsense, i've only been talking about one thing here my friend=)
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  From my book"Ponder Awhile"
  
  "Security I can understand,
  But generosity must go hand in hand."
  
  My friend I have never said what you are doing is bad, its is good, keep it up .Just don't branch believers to be less charitable.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  alright i'll read your book man, geez=)
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What you are doing is good ,keep it up , help the needy , this message is not only mine but from any true man of god.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ok peace paji, we're cool=)
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ha peace pal
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i don;t have to, you guys do that yourselves=) and pls, you know it's true=)
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have mentioned earlier how surveys have found people who believe in god to be more charitable and not less charitable.
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Good to hear from you. Enjoyed reading your comment.
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  reeltaulkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  good question.....take a survey and only ask religious people, I would love to read their feedback.
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  cheaptrickposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  One of the books found in the Dead Sea scrolls,Nag Hammadi,which have been authenticated is the book of Mary Magdalen.In it she asks Christ this question"Lord,I had a vision,did it come from my Spirit or my Soul?"(this question indicates a difference between Spirit and Soul)Christs reply was"You have your Spirit and you have your Soul,between the two is your mind,there lies the Treasure".Clearly,a true Christian must use the engine of the mind to walk the"narrow path",this engine of the mind is directed by free will...
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well that's an original cheaptrick !
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  cheaptrickposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Research it.You will find there is nothing original about it.These are exact quotes.So sad that you rush to judgment mindlessly.look inside your self,or are you afraid?
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  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very cool answer cheaptrick.
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Crazdwriterposted 15 years ago
I'm religious and I don't contradict having a mind so I won't be of any use to you, Marine
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What happened to your dress? It made me feel all funny inside
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, plus you have nice legs! lol
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  Crazdwriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  <------Oh I thought they were a little hairy
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Jonathan Jancoposted 15 years ago
Even the mind of a follower is still a mind. Marine, you should bear in mind that not everyone is as free-spirited and curious as you are. If I were you, I'd be grateful to have the kind of mind you have.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, they are still a mind. Just a contradiction to an individual mind. I am greateful to all except those who are content with not realizing they have a mind.
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getitriteposted 15 years ago
It's probably the Ego Defense Mechanism of denial.

An intelligent person, who is religious, would have to be in denial about reality.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Or contradict logic with faith and interpretation.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But one would have to be in denial that they are, in fact, contradicting logic.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree.
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Valerie Fposted 15 years ago
Curious, free-spirited, religious, and I have a mind. If you're trying to prove some theory that religious people don't have minds of their own, I'm sorry I can't help you.

Well, actually, no I'm not.
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jenblacksheepposted 15 years ago
General question for everyone: When you say 'religious' do you mean religious (church goer, bible follower), or just a believer in God?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Only speaking for myself, religious to me is a grouped belief of God or a God.
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  Stimpposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Define "God". Some define "God" as anything you perceive to be higher than yourself or EVEN within yourself....it could be the group of people for which you are seeking support or a higher being or the desk in the corner or even the Hub Forums. It is whatever you believe in for support. If you believe that you have it within yourself to be "your own being" or "your own God." Fabulous. Then, what's the issue? I don't get it. I don't think believing in some THING negates logical thinking necessarily.
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  Stimpposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I believe for instance that I have the power to put a mullet on my dog for Halloween and all is good with the world
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  Maximus591posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Can you also hear your dogs thoughts? God allegedly can.
  
  Do you know what your dog dreams? God allegedly knows.
  
  So, believing in some THING - presumably you mean a God thing - does indeed negate a logical thinking. Logical thinking would suggest that God does not know what your dog thinks or dreams. Logical thinking would also call into question the very existence of God. Yet you want to believe in God AND possess a logical mind? That's an oxymoron my friend.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Some go too far with belief. Some rely on God rather than medicine to heal their children. A lot of those children die for the parents ridiculous faith. The parents use faith over logic.
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jenblacksheepposted 15 years ago
I should have said 'higher power' ... that's what I meant. Because I think it makes a difference to the answer to the OP's question, whether you talk about religion or just a belief in a higher being, having one doesnt mean you have the other.
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jenblacksheepposted 15 years ago
There's a difference in someone who blindly follows religion; does what the Bible tells them because thats what the Bible tells them to do, and someone who has disregarded religion, thought about what they believe, doesn't believe in heaven and hell but still believes there is some kind of higher being.

I know people who are atheists but are ridiculously stupid, only believe it because their parents do or watever and have no kind of mind at all. And I know religious people (and non-religious believers) who don't bring God into their arguments (unless it's an argument about God) and can have sensible logical debates without just saying 'god did it' and have reasons for doing what they do other than just 'it's what it says in the bible.'

P.S. Nice pic Max!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  All that follow religion are blind followers. They contradict being born an individual and have no self awareness to see this because of their faith driven blindness. There is no logic in the bibles weak, pathetic, contradictory, emotional childish government god.
  
  Want to know how I really feel?
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  jenblacksheepposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's what I was saying. Religious people are followers. But those that have found their own path to God (or a higher being) are not necessarily blind followers. Many people who believe in God do not follow the Bible (or a similar religious text). I have respect for someone who has questioned their beliefs, thought about why they believe what they do, and really considered whether it is the right path for them ... (whether they are a believer or not). Regardless of whether I ultimately think they are right or not.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I like your name
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Where does the name "God" come from? Religious teachings. How does any believer that doesn't believe in religion or the bible still term a creator God when the name was developed from religion? The term God is taught, not learned.
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  jenblacksheepposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's why I put 'higher being' in brackets. A lot of people don't believe in the God of the Bible, but do believe in some kind of higher being. I was just calling it God for simplification.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ty for explaining, I understand you now. Because of the religious ties to "God", I think the term God is very confusing for a non believer to use when they don't believe the bible and still believe in a creator or creators. If I said that I believe in a God, people would automatically assume that I am a religious biblical believer. If I said I believe in the possibility of a creator/creators or "higer being" as you termed it, I think this would limit confusion.
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
Religion itself is nothing more than a business. It has many return customers.

Religious leaders have been around for centuries and for centuries those leaders have made a mess of the world.

Those who follow a religion, somewhat close, like church goer, you can simply make the break without harm.

Those who study religion, inside and out, make their life from and around religion. The doctrines are efforted forward in one's life. One has to focus extremely hard to stay within doctrine. These people are the most dangerous, because their beliefs can kill someone they love dearly.

There are WARS being fought because religious text has caused attacks on other country's soil. Thousands of people had to die, so a religious lead regime can tell us right from wrong.

Religion tells you that you put GOD first. Life dictates that YOU must put SELF first.

It is human nature to put SELF first and foremost. If you put anything ahead of your self-responsibility to yourself, then you are killing yourself.

No one is to give up control over their own life- NOT to government and certainly not to religion.

For those who belief in a higher power or being. Stop and think for a second- religion has told you that you have your own personal 'god'. And, he'll be your savior in the end.

How ever, I would like to point out that your belief is no different than that of a believer. A higher power is the so-called 'god'. There isn't a difference.

You want to see a higher being- take full control of your entire life. Let go of any mystical affiliations you have and live your life based on your own drive, determination and ability to adapt.

You're conscience and what you've learned for morals will guide your direction. Remember, a moral right is to be beneficial to society or others. Create your own purpose and put effort and focus into building that into your dream life.

Don't wait for an eternal life that will never come.
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your will be done.
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
I find that Faith in God is beneficial separated from Religion. Being religious is not the same thing as having faith.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes it is. It takes faith to believe in a religion.
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sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago
Hey! I want to be an atheist! Because it's all about me! I'm the God of my world! I also want to be gay and abort children because who cares! I want to use women and throw them away because,hey, there's no morals! This sounds so enlightened, I can't wait!WOOHOO!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ignorant emotional reaction to protect faith.
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't get this -. Wait a minute !
  
  Is he saying that Christian men do not use women and throw them away because they have morals.
  
  It is not possible to have any morals without beleebing in jeebus.
  
  Being gay is wrong and no real Christians are gay.
  
  Abortion is wrong and a christian woman would never have an abortion.
  
  Why is it not possible to have morals unless you am skeered 'a' jeebus?
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
I guess I've said this before and I'm going to say it again.

My personal beliefs are not formed based on any religion of any kind. My beliefs are solely based on my life's research, science and philosophy.

I have NO religious affiliations whatsoever.

I reject all religions as deceitful liars. Those who cannot see through the hoax, only perpetuates it's existence, which shouldn't be to begin with.

Religion has no basis for existence. It's purely unsubstantiated stories about centuries past. It reads like a history book, with a little bit of mythology mixed in.

Since religion is man-made. Why it was conceived? Is what most people avoid talking about it. Why? Because it's outrageous and factual history.

Why was 'religion' conceived? Those in power, were of alike minds, and believed that mankind had to answer to a higher power, otherwise there would be chaos. Thus, religion was born.
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Make Moneyposted 15 years ago
Aw that's just a man made belief Cagsil.
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ediggityposted 15 years ago
I have a mind. I can choose to think independently, and make all the selfish choices I want. However, instead I choose to have faith in GOD, and let GOD guide me in the choices I make. What is the big difference in choices between the religious and non religious besides having faith? What are some choices that religious people make that are so different from non-believers?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You think it's selfish to have an individual mind and belief? Thanks, you just described everything in that one sentence.
  
  Religious rely on a belief that is already written limiting their mind from being open and considering alternatives or debate. From debate comes logic. I wouldn't expect you to understand this. Afterall, you believe it is selfish to have individual thoughts.
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  ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, if you make a choice for yourself it is selfish. What else do you call being an individual? (Not a team player)
  
  So, because I believe in the BIBLE you think I can't consider other alternatives, or debate about them? LOL! I've studied many alternatives before I even became a believer, and didn't believe them. Everyone believes in something, so your point is frivolous. Just because one believes in something different, doesn't mean the other person can't consider or debate an alternative. That's like saying an atheist can't consider or debate Christianity. Anyone can study Christianity, and not believe it. However, many don't, and just choose not to believe. I still see no significant difference in choices, besides belief. What one can do, and what one will/choose to do are completely different.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you debate your minister when he is teaching you belief? Why do you need someone or something to teach you what to believe? Sounds limited to me. What makes you believe the bible? Is your belief absolute? If your belief is absolute, why do you search to debate your belief. If your belief isn't absolute, how do you claim to believe the bible as truth? How do you claim a logical mind when your belief contradicts logic?
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  ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  To clarify your original question Maximus wrote,
  "Can those who profess religious belief also have a mind that can think independently of those religious beliefs."
  and you agreed.
  
  The answer to your original question is yes, and answered with my posts above.
  
  No, I don't debate with my minister while he is preaching. That would be rude. That would be like sitting in a college class debating with the professor while they were teaching.
  
  Why do you need someone to teach you what to believe? Did you seriously ask that question? Did you go to school at all? Did your teachers/parents teach you things, and in turn did you believe them? Or, did you raise yourself, and teach yourself everything you needed to know?
  
  Faith makes me believe in the BIBLE. If you don't believe, why do you focus so much time on religion?
  
  Lastly, all of your philosophies on life are subjective to interpretation. They are not logical. They are subjective to interpretation. They are based off of no concrete non-circular evidence or proof. They are your opinions. My belief is based off of faith.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I would actually respond with and intelligent comment, but you are undeserving. You make statements with no bearing to protect your ridiculous faith. The only thing you said that makes sense is that your belief is based off of faith. You realize your belief has no logic without faith, so you fill in the gaps. My ideas don't require faith, only logic. There is no proof in your government faith except that you are a blind sheep.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please read the logic of great minds in the post I have just posted.Give us some knowledge rather than just repeating over and over again you need to have self awareness, have a mind , work for the government blah blah blah.
  
  Or be honest and admit that you have never had any sort of spiritual experience and have absolutely no knowledge of spirituality or god.
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  ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am sorry I am so undeserving of your "intelligent" comments. LOL! Would one of those comments be separatist, sheep, or prophet? LOL!I don't think you even know what your ideas are. You make them up along the way. Just because you make up a term for something on Hubpages, doesn't make it an accepted expression in society. LOL! You are still searching for something. My search is over. There is no proof in your "philosophy" either. Again, subject to interpretation with no proof to support your claims. Keep making things up, and convincing yourself you are right. The BIBLE isn't going anywhere no matter who, or how much anyone dislikes it, or it's teachings. I hope you seriously continue to study, beyond philosophy, and compare all things relative.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are finally right on one thing. I do make my ideas and beliefs up along the way while not contradicting myself. This is logic and evolution. If I am wrong, why haven't people proved me wrong? All you have is your rubbish faith. Where are my contradictions? List them. I support all of my claims. Yours is the one based on magical faith to fill the gaps of logic so your dependent mind has something to belief. What things have I been making up? You go to hell for lying. Did you forget to read that part in your belief book?
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  ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, really well thought out reply. Honestly, I expected more. LOL! As long as no one proved you wrong yet you must be right. It's your world man, we're just living in it. LOL!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I ask people to prove me wrong. My belief isn't absolute, remember. Why should a growing mind have an unchanging belief genius?
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
A closed mind hinders itself regardless of what it already holds
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And, a narrow-tunnelled mind hindered by religious belief based on a higher power mystical entity as a guide for life is ignorant to the understanding of life itself.
  
  If you have any kind of religious belief whatsoever, you prove you don't understand life or what's real.
  
  A closed mind isn't trapped in a narrow view, it is simply closed to the idea of anything outside reality. Which actually makes sense.
  
  An open-mind, like mine- where anything is possible? God does not exist. There is no substance for belief. An open-minded person is open to the possibilities of life, but only as far as facts are evident. To take a 'leap of faith' isn't in your nature to begin with.
  
  When evidence presents itself and shows you the reality, then you can form a solid foundation for a belief.
  
  When no evidence is found, then belief foundation can not be truly formed, because you will always have a inner-part of you that doesn't believe, therefore your belief isn't 100% and never can be, because you don't have all the facts, as according to reality.
  
  Reality exists. It exists freely independent of thoughts, desires, will, or wishes. Reality is ALL knowable.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So does one in absolute belief.
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
In your open mind everything is possible except ...
when exceptions are present then anything is not possible.
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thisisoliposted 15 years ago
There are plenty of religious people who are intelligent, but many intelligent people have been insane.

It is logic that defies religion, more than intelligence.

Personally I think religion has both given and taken a lot from humanity. While I do not believe in any God, I do not presume to tell others what they should think.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you. I also don't like to tell others what to think. I simply tell them to think! A hard task for the belief dependent minds. They aren't used to thinking when their belief controls their thinking.
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thisisoliposted 15 years ago
I should possibly clarify, that when I say religion has taken a lot, I refer to progress of mankind scientifically, loss of life in countless wars, and so on.

When I say it has given a lot I relate to works of art, buildings that are made for more than financial gain, and different cultures. (Despite government attempts at 'multiculturalism' I think it is a great thing for each country to have a unique culture, which people may visit, and absorb in wonder)
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You make good comments. How much has religious belief prevented evolution of minds? How can a mind evolve when limited to a book of belief? This is a contradiction to a growing mind. It limits belief within a book. Religion has caused far more destruction than good. Religion brings separatism, not unity. Along with contradicting the mind, they contradict unity.
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  Maximus591posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  yes, that's all well and good.
  
  So, what do you do about it? At what point does your argument evolve beyond your own circular belief system? Even atheist / non-believers are just as guilty in peddling their own circular beliefs as christians. But as atheists / non-believers you have a responsibility to evolve your arguments to a higher level, which is something the faith-heads cannot do. That alone makes you a more worthwhile human being.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your point is well taken. Always great thoughts behind your comments.
  
  I considered your point before. If I raised arguements just to state my belief and critisize believers, I would be the same as their trapped minds. I do have hidden motives at times when I critisize the believer. I want to get an emotional reaction to expose how their beliefs are locked in with their emotions. Emotions in belief are also a contradiction to logic I believe.
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
Is that the head of the nail? The believer defies logic for faith in an absolute belief giving their belief control rather than a logical person that controls belief.

Does that sum it up? Someone correct me if I am wrong.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Logical persons don't have to control belief. They don't believe.
  There's no believe to control.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The logical still have to control belief and have self awareness. Believer or non believes in something. Even a belief or non belief of absolutes requires a belief. I think belief is granted control over logic when belief is considered absolute.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The logical self awareness doesn't have anything to do with beliefs.
  It has to do with one self and what surrounds it.Accepting it or not. That's all.
  non believing in absolutes, or believing in them, doesn't
  require anything more than self awareness, and what is our interaction with what surrounds us. Nothing to do with beliefs.
  Absolutes or not,are not religions.Are different ways of seeing life.
  Religious people have a mind just like you. The difference is the way they use it, as I said before.
  No contradiction in there.
  We are all human beings.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  In response to the last part, how unlimited can belief and thought be when limited to a single book? A contradiction to a free mind. Is it logical to limit the mind to a belief book?
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jenblacksheepposted 15 years ago
Thanx
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Denno66posted 15 years ago
De Nada
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Make Moneyposted 15 years ago
See, I told you.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Amen
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sheep
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This one is more a Ram, if you catch my drift. LIkes it rough..........
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol Silly animals!
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
I find it amusing that religious believers get mad when being called sheep, chimps, or other animals. They choose to have a blind belief like sheep "which are animals" and then get mad when called an animal. Wasn't it free will to become a sheep?
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
Is any belief that is emotionally driven or believed come from a logical mind? I don't believe so. I think emotions contradict logic. Anyone feel free to correct me.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Some emotions are completely unpredictable. Some emotions happen because something else happened. Example: if you are shot, you begin to go into shock(if its your first time being shot) and you feel nothing. Once the shock wears off- you begin feeling a burning sensation, which could make you cry or scream out in pain.
  
  You can apply logic to WHY? someone has expressed the emotion. Each emotion has a unique feeling, which logic can not rationalize and never be required to be understood, any further than we(society) have.
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
Hey marine,

True enough. If you're going to follow a religion or form your own beliefs based on non-existent facts, you go against your life.

If you form a belief system based on lie, and then you perpetuate that lie, that doesn't make it fact. It is still a lie.

Religion is man-made, based on a belief that mankind requires to answer to a higher authority otherwise there would be chaos.

This 'belief' is perceived by all religious leaders and leaders of government.

The TRUTH of the matter is that you have a mind that creates thoughts, which most of the time turns into actions. You also have a conscience to determine right from wrong. You can give your life it's own purpose. You can define your own life's existence, however you want.

Religion is stopping you from getting what you want out of your life- true control over your life.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What the hell are you talking about? How is religion stopping me when i'm not religious?
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I was agreeing with you on your position, but also saying something else to believers.
  
  It was easier to put it in one post instead of making two.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Alright, Ty for explaining. I agreed until I thought you called me religious. My bad. lol
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Denno66posted 15 years ago
Hey! Somebody say something about sheep?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sheep are needed to run a government.
  
  That is my absolute belief.
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  baa ram you lol
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hope you saw the movie babe I think.
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
Anyone who practices any form of religion is irresponsible to themselves.

To form a belief on a mystical realm that doesn't exist in reality, isn't a solid foundation for a belief. It shows irrational thought process, which is detrimental to your life.

If you think you understand- Life and you have formed your belief in 'god', then you are lying to yourself about what is real.

Life's nature isn't for you to be subjected to an external authority for guidance. Why not? Because, you have a conscience and can choose your own right and wrong.

Between Government and Religious leaders, BOTH agree that the human race MUST answer to a 'higher power' authority otherwise there would be chaos. Thus, why we have laws and religion exists.

Just in case you want the cliff notes version- Government and Religious Leaders agreed long ago to work together to control the people of society, because people couldn't be trusted to the morally right thing. They STILL don't trust you!

That's what's happening, just in case you were wondering.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Actually I recall that I was much more irresponsible to myself (and others) when I was a humanist, especially when I was in my Ayn Rand period.
  
  You see faith as a mystical realm that doesn't exist in reality, but anybody who has had a spiritual encounter with the Holy Spirit knows that to be a false assumption. Encounters with God are VERY real.
  
  You must choose to avoid them.
  
  "If you think you understand- Life and you have formed your belief in 'god', then you are lying to yourself about what is real." - Conjecture and though I can respect your opinion, that's all it is, an opinion.
  
  "Life's nature isn't for you to be subjected to an external authority for guidance. Why not? Because, you have a conscience and can choose your own right and wrong."
  
  Again, when I chose NOT to be subjected to an external authority for guidance, during my humanist period, my conscience was kinda selective and although I could choose from right or wrong, I normally chose wrong without any concern for the consequences. I would say that those I meet are far better of when I have chosen (ultimately and finally) to be submitted to Christ, rather than 'free to choose'
  
  "Between Government and Religious leaders, BOTH agree that the human race MUST answer to a 'higher power' authority otherwise there would be chaos. Thus, why we have laws and religion exists."
  
  ...and you prefer chaos?
  
  "Just in case you want the cliff notes version- Government and Religious Leaders agreed long ago to work together to control the people of society, because people couldn't be trusted to the morally right thing. They STILL don't trust you!"
  
  ...and looking in the news, they are right not to. You may be a thoroughly trustworthy nice chap, but unfortunately there are many who are not, and I've been one of them before I came to faith.
  
  You seem to think that you can change a sick and wretched world full of morally bankrupt people into some nirvana by applying free thinking, well I wish you were right, but experience and evidence proves you wrong to me.
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
You can't believe what is attainable by human standards...yet you're willing to put your life in the hands of someone that doesn't exist in reality.

Faith should be placed in ONESELF to be self-responsible for their thoughts and actions.

To put faith in something you supposedly believe exists, is completely irrational and defeats the meaning of life.

I seem like a nice chap? First off, I'm not a twenty something immature kid.

You want to throw your life away on religion. I can not stop you.

As for my statements- if you think that you understand Life- and you still form a belief in 'god', then you are lying to yourself- is the truest damn statement I've ever uttered on these forums.

If you believe in a 'god' of some sort, then you are lying to yourself about what you know about life.

Because LIFE doesn't have anything to do with religion whatsoever. Absolutely NOTHING!

(1) You have a consciousness that gives you free will.
(2) You have a conscience to guide yourself.
(3) You have the nature of man and woman.( you must know what your own nature is before you can be who you are)
(4) You have reality.(which is all knowable)

Anything more than that is B.S.

Religion would have you believe we are nothing special. Because, they want you in soliditude and separated from one another. They want you up in arms. They want you to feel low.

In actual terms- religion wants to control you.

Do I want chaos? If more people acted with self-responsibility and honesty, then there would be no chaos.

In society, every person has been insulted or beaten down by religious others, and it's leaders, made to think that they are no better than dirt and won't be given redeemation until they die.

I can see how society became like it is and you still want talk about religion isn't harmful to society. More...B.S!

Please, you can't defend from a weakened position. And, since you are talking religion, you can't fight from a position of strength, because religion is MAN-MADE and nothing more.
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
That's ashame.

There was hope for you yet.

Oh well.
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pioneer_writer5posted 15 years ago
I am religious, but I know that religion is not the only platform that seems to have a group mentality. Politics is broken up into parties, and basically regardless of individual beliefs one can only support one party with their vote. There is nationalism the love and allegience to one's country which results on the loss of life for a cause that may not actually be the one given for international involvement. Let's not forget those radical groups like the Klu Klux Klan, Skin Heads, the Black panthers, Mafia all groups that have (mindless?) followers. People choose to become a part of any group that meets their needs. It is not a mindless endeavor. However, sometimes people surrender their right to make certain decisions because they do not wish to be responisible for themselves. It is easier to give blame or credit to someone or something else if life is too complex or if there is a fear of things going wrong. Many times as long as things are working in the favor of the group member that person will be content with where they are.
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Jawa Lunkposted 15 years ago
The only true contradiction is described by Paul, what I want to do, I don't do, and what I don't want to do I end up doing...this is the battle between the Spirit and our flesh.

It is a daily struggle to do what is right, what is good, what is noble, what is selfless, what is kind toward others.

Look at the world around us, it is not natural for people to care for and about others. They are naturally selfish, hate filled, self centered beings.

Without God, there is no love, for God is love.

The scriptures reveal to us that, "Anyone who says he loves God whom he can't see, yet hates his brother whom he can see, is a liar and the truth is not in him."

Who today loves the un-believers, or their believing brothers, or better yet, their enemies?

The scriptures tell us "You have heard it said, love your brother and hate your enemies, but I tell you, to love your enemies."

The only contradiction someone has if they are a believer, is the contradiction trying to live a selfless life, while we are prone to selfishness.
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  and if that is mindless, let it be.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I feel sorry for all the chinese people out there then because they don't believe in God in china, what a loveless country=(
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't mean to burst your bubble, people are dying for there faith their.
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  and there families saddled with the bill of the bullet.
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  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah Christianity is booming as never before in China, especially underground. Some say China could eventually have hundreds of millions of Christians, perhaps more than any other country in the world.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i feel sorry for their ancestors then, none of them made it in heaven=(
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  God will let all of mankind know how to get to heaven. That is the job of the Holy spirit to convict man of sin.
  Why are you on these forums to appease your conscience perhaps? Subconscously asking questions or just been outright rude?
  We all have our own opinions and each ones should be respected. Your tone is one of demeaning not debating.I will pray for you.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you're right, i'm the rude one not the guy who judges my photo and makes fun of it, and by the way, if you don't have real answers to my questions, don't make me out to be the rude guy, that's rude=)
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi topgunjager
  The answer to your question is if people never heard of Jesus and what he did for us they will be judged by their conscience.
  Hope that is the answer you wanted.
  kind regards
  Paul
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  so maybe we should just teach people how to be good and not teach them about god so there would be less confusion and hate between the believers and the non believers so that we can focus on one thing, "helping our less fortunate brothers and sisters" it just seems like there's too much believing and not enough caring in the world=)
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wow. What a good idea.
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have been down that road of thought but where is the line of good and bad drawn and why do we have a consience?
  And then don't listen to our consience. You see the relationship I have with my God is when I don't listen to that conviction His presence leaves me. And in truth I enjoy the Aura or feelings of His presence. This is why I try to turn from things that don't make me happy. I am just human like anybody and fail miserebly in that task, yet I believe that in time and patience with God I can and will get to the place He wants me to be.
  I am sure, to give to the less fortunate is part of his agenda. I have seen many a good work from my brothers and sisters in Christ.I too have done some good and still wish to do more.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  then maybe you should focus on doing more, if god truly exists he wouldn't send you to hell for not believing in him, he'd just be happy you're doing good things in this life=)
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Would you allow just anyone in your house?
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  just anyone you mean his children?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Remember he has no children he doesn't exist.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  then why are you in this thread sir?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  To see how many people are lost.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  and you plan on doing what with the lost people sir?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Give them a map.
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just like us. We suround ourselves with like minded people. So God wishes the same. He knows we need His help and that is why Jesus came.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ok, so we should separate ourselves from each other because we are all different? you're maybe right, it worked very well in the past=)
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Lets be honest with ourselves. Some people don't want what other people want, that is there choice and as I except that they chose that way, because they wanted too, so let each chose what they will without predjudice.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  thank you, then maybe the preaching should stop then right because "not everyone wants to hear you preach" keep it to thyself
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  May I remind you that you are on religion and beliefs forum.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  then may i remind you that maybe you believers should stop judging us non believers because we don't believe in what you believe, why don't you be good like jesus?
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  paulhvvposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Love to continue
  Need to go and reread where it says don't judge others as with the same measure you judge you will be judged. bye for now.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  maybe you should my brother, god bless you=)
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You use logic of the devil! Are you satan?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you smarter than your bible god? Choosing without predjudice would be free will. The bible makes threats of hell if you do not believe. Threats to believe isn't exactly choosing without predjudice now is it?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you serious? Does your belief book not say that non believers will go to hell? You have to be honest if you expect an honest conversation.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Where did you come by all your wonderful insight.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  from reality sir, i just don't think god put us here on this planet with the main purpose of "giving him attention"
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's common sense. I forgot, the bible contradicts common sense. You wouldn't understand.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are just so smart! Sweetie you know everything!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know nothing! You assume all! Have fun trying to figure that out sheep.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You know the most "nothing" I've ever heard! Sweetie you really are smart!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, I knew you wouldn't have a mind to understand what I wrote.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're right again! You truly are a modern woman.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wrong again sheep.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're an old-fashioned woman? You sound so progressive.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Keep guessing. You will get there eventually. This is what your belief is. Guessing. I wouldn't expect any different from you. I would be surprised if you actually used your belief battered mind.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're not a woman you're a transvestite?
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  it's funny that you would call someone a transvestite when you rock your boobs on your avatar, why do you insult people when they don't have the same belief as you do?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just to watch another atheist make a fool out of them self. You insult and then cry foul when you get the same love back. When somone does something and they critisize some one else for the same thing, in most places thats called being a hypocrite. You can say any thing you want to me. The only thing I feel when listening to you is I need to rethink my position on abortion.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You belong in a kindergarten class and not a religious forum where we are discussing philosophy.
  Not had enough of war soldier?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Great point you made. I call this separatism of the bible. Afterall, the bible is a separatist belief.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's a majority belief, so that makes you the seperatist.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So you admit that you are a separatist. Silly believer. At least you are partly honest unlike others.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  since you like to pray, you should read my hub about prayers and who cares, i would love to get your honest opinion my friend=)
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This would be called devolution. Know what that means?
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francisjdurzposted 15 years ago
There are no contradictions.

JUST BELIEVE!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You could be a preacher!
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
No contradiction just ignore the hate filled Quoran and bible. Nothing else supports there being a god.
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topgunjagerposted 15 years ago
if there is a god and he's the ultimate good, he wouldn't care if you believe in him or not, but he would care about the good things that you do in this life that will actually ease the suffering of other people=)
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topgunjagerposted 15 years ago
can't we all just get along? if you believe in god then no matter what i am led to believe, you're still my brother right=)
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topgunjagerposted 15 years ago
hey sneakerrocksolid, it's nice to read your comments about other people, just as jesus would do, well done=)
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He is the way!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry I don't care what a non-believer says about anyones beliefs because they always attack Christians with same lame crap. Be original! Think up something new, c'mon, I know you can do it!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hypocrite. Develop self awareness and intelligent thought before you analyze others.
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
How are you today topgun? Thank you for having a mind btw. I always appreciate to see an individual mind not battered by belief.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How would you know what a mind is?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How would you know what a mind is?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Because I analyze it. You don't analyze. You use faith so you don't have to analyze anything.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Really? All those college classes for nothing!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  More assumptions. I disagree with college.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I meant I learned nothing at school. I never assumed you were educated.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you are college educated, my point is made. College taught you absolutely nothing of individual thought. That may be absolute. You are dependent on others teaching you, not self teaching/learning.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  why do you even try to spread he god's word man? all you do is mess with people, we don't like you, your own people don;t like you, nobody likes you, when you say anything it only pisses people off, you don't even matter, oh i'm sorry you do matter, you help keep the economy going, you know macdonald's is already open right?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not preaching and never will. You do rant well though. If you say something stupid I will offer you the same in return. Say something intelligent and I'll respond intelligently. C'mon I know you can do it! Really try this time!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree with you this time. He is "perfect"!
  
  Why is he perfect? He is a clear example of a sheep mind making assumptive comments and belief exposing his ridiculous faith. He must protect the faith! This is what his dependent limited belief battered sheep mind is trained to do. Now he can correct my lack of punctuation from all of the college classes he has had.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No sorry, I'm a fool who has faith,therefore I'm too stupid to have a well developed thought process. You two are just to easy!
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  always good my friend, nice to see you here again=)
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topgunjagerposted 15 years ago
hey marine, i kinda feel bad about arguing with sneak, i don't normally stoop down to this level but he was asking for it. let's let him have the last word, he's pathetic enough as he is, we don't really have to prove anything to this guy=)you win sneak, you've accomplished something today, really hope it gets you laid my friend, with that attitude, you really need to get some=)
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Mamacita!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, he has been boring for a while now. Sheep are only entertaining for so long.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Would you marry a sheep?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, because someone is ignorant in one area doesn't mean they aren't a good person or logical in other areas. We are all ignorant in something. Some like yourself refuses correction or learning to protect faith. Some sheep aren't content with being ignorant, so they continue searching for their individual mind. You have no consciousness of an individual mind when you are in a grouped belief. I'm sure this will not get through to you. You will only make more faith based ignorant assumptions.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Look don't start trouble by insulting religion and you won't have to listen to my nonsense. If you put garbage in you'll get garbage out. I'm always sarcastic when I know the conversation is never going to produce anything positive. If you want to discuss religion in a respectful manner let's do it! If you're going to insult those who have beliefs I'll play.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am willing to discuss anything as long as you are honest and accept learning when you are wrong on something. It takes a humble person to be honest. I will answer any question or comment that is for progress in learning rather than protection of faith.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I do not insult the religious. The religious insult themselves by living as a contradiction.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thats an observation based on a prejudiced point of view.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It is true by logic, but you will not accept my explanation. When every person is born with an individual mind, it is a contradiction to having an individual mind when you have the same taught belief as others.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This how I see it You accepted God's plan and you were given an opportunity to prove your faith and loyality thru free agency. Lucifer wanted to make us be faithful God rejected his plan and lucifer rebelled and was cast out along with his followers. He has planted seeds of doubt and nutures that doubt with deception. I as far I can tell you accepted God's plan so you were given the opportunity to prove your love and faith but you let yourself be decieved. So there is nothing I can do for you accept love you and dispite all I do.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The devil is faith based just as the biblical god. You believe I have given in to a mythical devil. Does the devil posess me now? Is this logical to you?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, but you rejecting the love and friendship part of God's plan doesn't sound logical either.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The bible contradicts love, equality, and unity.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I must have missed that part but, as you've pointed out I'm ablind ignorant sheep and must have missed it.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If the bible creates unity, why do we not agree?
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Make Moneyposted 15 years ago
Hey marine boot camp must have done a number on your head. You are arguing just for argument sake with no substance.

Folks I'm sure if we leave these characters alone marinealways24 and topgunjager will start arguing with themselves.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No substance? How is that?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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spiderpamposted 15 years ago
Marine,
This topic makes no sense. Why so fallacious?

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry

We are all born as individuals. Period. No two people will agree on every single thing, but many people share common core beliefs(killing is wrong, stealing is wrong, lying is wrong, helping the poor is good, loving your neighbor is good etc.) Every sane person has these core values written on their consciences( Jeremiah 31:33)

It was like minded ideal that give you the right to post such idiotic things, ever think about that? Free speech.

You have no basis to account for logic, period. So your words are hollow. Where does your logic come from? To assume because we are Christian so we can’t logic is the ultimate contradiction of life itself. We are living, we are thinking, typing, so we must have the tools to do such things. You want to live like a animal so be it, don’t drag us down to your level of amoral insanity.

In our world today, can you explain how personality could have ever come from the impersonal, or how order could have ever resulted from chaos of any kind, mentality or otherwise? If everyone thought exactly like you or me alone nothing would ever be achieved, it is the simple fact that order of some kind is needed truly enjoy being you. This might be over your head.

God does not show favorites(Romans 2) Humans do. Christianity is exclusive club anyone can join, no special works, or secret knowledge repent, trust in Jesus alone for salvation read His Word. You don’t like Christians, fine. Don’t like us to yourself, no one here deserves churlish, uncivilized, barbaric ranting from you. You obviously need attention, but can’t you find a better way to get it? I guess not or would have found it by now.

You are not religious, right? Yet you are here. If that not the biggest contradiction I don’t know what is.

CONCLUSION
No human is omniscient.
You are human.
To claim and any absolute(the God of the Bible isn’t real) is illogical and irrational. You are illogical and irrational. That's how philosophy works.

I don’t need a response, take some time to think, I mean really think.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You attempt to define logic when you jump though threads making your ignorant faith based comments without reading previous ideas and post's. Is that logical to you?
  
  Patrick Henry is wrong, this world and everything in it was founded by the sheppards. You are the supporting sheep.
  
  Jeremiah is also wrong. Everyone has a different conscience. If a small racist child was raised from birth and taught it was alright to kill people of a different race because they don't matter, the child may never know that racist killing is wrong. This is how taught belief works.
  
  Free Speech was founded by individuals, not sheepish believers as yourself that oppose religious insults to protect your ignorant emotionally driven faith.
  
  You are the only animal. You maintain a sheep mind. You refuse to have a human mind.
  
  Our world is developed from chaos. We learn from debate and argueing, not from all believing the same thing.
  
  Romans 2 is another contradiction from the bible. God doesn't show favorites huh? How about burning in hell for not believing in him? Get out of that one. Jesus and everything in your ridiculous faith based belief is separatism. Why do you think we disagree?
  
  CONCLUSION:
  
  You are blissfully ignorant and blinded by sheepish faith. Our society and world is learned in logic and reasoning. Not in faith. Faith is contradiction to logic. Contradictions are a contradiction to logic. The bible is a contradiction to an individual mind. You are a contradiction of a human mind.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What a joke! Why did I even bother. You are fatuous!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Point made.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're right, in fact I should thank you.
  After reading a few of your post, I’ve now truly understand that you guys really do need mental care after serving. Support our troops! Seriously.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My mental care is individual logic, your's is sheepish blind faith. Do as you are told. I was in the Marines for 4 years. You don't think I understand how your sheepish mind operates. Blame it on the devil. This is what you are taught.
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  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is exactly what I have been thinking too Pam. Post traumatic stress disorder.
  
  When you figure the contradictions service men and women have had to deal with, especially those that went to Iraq it's hard to see anyone coming back from there without a problem that should be looked into.
  
  Consider the fact that Bush was telling the nation that it was not a war between Christianity and Islam then Bush said the exact opposite to troops on a carrier. I seen the video myself with Bush calling it a modern day crusade or something to that effect. This would explain marinealways24's hatred for religion. Yet in reality both Christianity and Islam have condemned the war in Iraq. Pope JPII said God will punish the perpetrators of the war in Iraq.
  
  Please marinealways24, seek help for your problem before something disastrous happens. I know you won't think much of it but my prayers are with you my friend.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This is excellent.
  
  The ignorant sheep with no self awareness of mind now title me with ptsd to discredit me to protect faith!
  
  Old man, figure out the psychology of why your silly childish mind believes the bible. Find your mind before you try to explain someone elses. Keep the faith!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Remember sheep, you are the ones that talk to imaginary gods, not me. Who is really the crazy one?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  YOU
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is that based on faith or logic?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nope, yours
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I give it to you, you are the most ignorant believer I have yet talked to on here.
  
  Alright assumptive one, what is my logic? What is my belief? Let's see you answer some questions for once.
  
  Who prays to an imaginary being that doesn't talk back? You or me?
  
  Does your ignorant faith allow you to be honest or are you content with your ignorant bliss?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Use your mind, it'll come to you.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are obviously content with your ignorance as you have clearly shown with your faith based assumptions.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A mind is terrible thing to waste, marine. I'm sorry it's too late for you. I guess the next time I see you it'll be on the 5 o clock news.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The funny thing is, you are the one that has given up on yourself.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'll keep my eye on the news for you. Give me a shout out. Spiderpam out.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OMG! That is so Christlike? Just because you are losing this debate, badly, you resort to diabolical behavior as such. So now you are wishing that you see a crazed former Marine on the news going berzerk. If your god condones your behavior, then your god is despicably evil. Due to your twisted, brained-washed state of mind, you know nothing about the art of debate!
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  She never did. It's a lost case. she's always gone when she's losing ground
  Whatever !!
  Who cares, really !!
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I care! We all should! She is a handicapp to our society. Should we just be content that people refuse to think such as she does so that she can protect faith? I think that would make us as ignorant as she is.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why don't you leave her alone?!
  she's entitled to be what she wants to be !
  Accepting her and not getting involved in her debates, doesn't make an ignorant of me!
  More foolish is to continue arguments that lead nowhere !!!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  She is teaching the future of our society her beliefs. She is teaching her children to defy logic and refuse to think. I agree that she leads nowhere. Her only goal is to protect faith. Faith doesn't require logical thought. I am not calling you ignorant. I think very highly of you. You have no fear in thought unlike a sheepish believer that believes as told.
  GM btw!
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  GM 2 U ! Hi ! I know what you're aiming at, buT I'm fed up with all this !
  Good luck, anyway !
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I understand what you are saying. It is pretty annoying at times to have a logical conversation with sheep when their faith teaches them to contradict logic.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So I don't think like you, kill me off? You're a separtist. You know who else had those thought Hilter, Stalin, Pol Pot. They were separist too. You have been taught what to think not how to think that's why you are here. Rebellion.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  <snipped - final warning before getting banned>
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You have got to be kidding me? Where did I lose ground? marine just wants to fight who can agrue, in his "mind" he has already won.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  More psychology from the sheepish believer. I find it amusing how you believe you understand someones thought process when you are incapable to understand your own. You are stupified by faith. I have won nothing because you still fear thinking to protect your ridiculous faith.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Unless you say something to convince him otherwise, he is not going to be persuaded. You have to understand, your replies have to be persuasive. Your argument in support of your god has not persuded any of us, who are not already believers. It just has not!
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Been there done that he doesn't care. He already admitted he only wants to argue no one can persuay him to think anything else.
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  getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Since God has never appeared to any of us, and since there is suffering and misery in the world, and since modern science has been debunking one fallacy of the past after another, it is an almost impossible task to convince a person who has concluded there is no god.
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  God has appeared to many! Oh yeah, use the line that all the worlds suffering is Gods fault, did you ever think it was OUR fault? No because you are too proud. Shame on you. You know that the bible said our earth was round before any one else discovered it was?! You know that they are finding GOLDEN wheels off the carriages used by the saved people of Egypt when Moses lead them across the sea?! Or that they have found Sodom and Gomorrah and it is all ashes still?! Debunking the Bible....I dont think so.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  One more and goes......
  Not even one of those proofs, prove that God exists.
  It only proves that Egyptcians existed long ago, and that Sodom and Gomorra as well.
  And if it's true that both cities had fallen by God's anger, in what atrocious God are you believing ??!!
  
  Why don't you think, before posting ?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you don't have any answers either !
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Its so funny because you think we are pathetic but you guys honestly want to believe that we came from apes or what....what do you believe in?
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Scientists are constantly going back on what they have said about dinosaurs,the earths age and carbon dating.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not an evolutionist!
  I can't care less where do we come from. I'm only interested in where I am going.
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  and where are you going?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  that's my business.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  why would you want to know ? We're not on the same road.
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You all think that we have the inability to think for ourselves because we DO care where we come from we DO care whether or not we live an eternal life with our saviour or have an "eternal" death. The fact you dont care about any of these issues just assures me that you dont have the ability to think.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  typical 'christian'
  Calling me not able to think !
  that means stupid, I think !
  thank you !
  Proving once again the pettiness of believers
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I sometimes wonder, how can it be that you're not ashamed of yourselves ? Being so Low, when God teaches you to be so High !
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very 'christian' as well to insult and then disappear !
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Im sorry that was the impression I got from you guys, that we are unable to think for ourselves. You can dish it out but cant take it. hmmmmm.....
  Im sick of being slammed by all you self righteous people, because you believe in NOTHING and have no desire to.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I sometimes wonder, how can it be that you're not ashamed of yourselves ? Being so Low, when God teaches you to be so High !
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Typical and pathetic, pathetic being one of the words you used earlier, correct? I am not perfect I know and understand this, but I will defend myself, and I've come to relize that I dont like being walked all over and put down because you guys think you have all the answers, which you obviously dont, and because my belief is different from yours. Get off your high horse in thinking you are smarter. ok.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Who believes they are favored by a divine being for their belief, you or tantrum?
  
  Who is the one on the favored high horse?
  
  Think before you answer. These questions require self awareness and individual thought.
  
  Are you capable to think outside your pack?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't remember using pathetic in my posts to you. Show me !
  
  No comments !
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  that's another thing that I saw you believers doing. Putting words in other's mouth or deleting part of our posts, taking words out of context
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I dont need to put words in your mouth, all I need to use is the scroll up, and to focus on that one word out of everything I have said is hilarious!
  What is the point of you voicing out your belief on NOTHING anyways. Just so you convert more people to nothingness?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are a silly little sheep aren't you. What is converting people to nothingness?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can't believe this people !!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can! This is what faith does to the silly sheep! They think all believe the same unbelief because they follow the same belief. They think in groups! Silly little sheep!
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You still have not told me what exactly it is that you do believe in.....please enlighten me!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What makes you want to seriously ask a question when you are so good at making faith based assumptions to protect your faith?
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think what you have done is what you guys would call "dodging" the question.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Quite the little sheep hypocrite when you only make circular arguements to protect your dependent faith.
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh c'mon.....you cant really tell me what your belief is as in to how, when, why we are here?
  I'm sorry did I just make another circle, quick follow me!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So, since I can't explain the universe, I should believe the bibles explanation right?
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you are ready to travel that road, you have be better to accept the answer, for the question you ask.
  
  If your knowledge or understanding about LIFE is skewed by religious text or a belief in a false "god", then you will reject what I'm about to say.
  
  If you want to know WHEN mankind existence came to be? Look to science for your answer. Science has proven mankind has been on planet Earth for over 10,000+ years or longer.
  
  Your religion- whatever that might be is MAN-MADE and not spiritual. Why was your religion created? Because those in power believed in a wrongly perceived, foundation- Mankind can not be self-responsible and MUST be guided by a higher authority.
  
  Your individual relgion belief is part of a hoax based on control.
  
  If you are trying to understand LIFE, then I can suggest you read some hubs from different people and get an accurate take.
  
  My own hub was just recently publish, so to inform others that their faith in "GOD" is wrongly placed and the fact that if you have a religious faith in "GOD", you are defying your own nature to be self-guided.
  
  Even Jesus Christ knew that 'religion' was fake and he specifically told his followers to not believe in or worship, the rulers false 'gods'. Yet, you believe in the rulers 'god' and refuse to understand that it's a false god.
  
  Jesus Christ told you- I am the way to the father - no other way.
  
  When you break this statement down to real form context- Jesus spoke- "I" (singular, individual) - am the way(conscious thought) - to the Father(leader - self-responsible conscious individual thought) - NO OTHER WAY!
  
  As you can see, Jesus Christ was talking about YOU - being an conscious individual, who has individual thoughts and since you HAVE conscious individual thought, then you are able to be your own leader, as long as you remain honest with yourself and in your dealings with others. There is NO OTHER WAY to live.
  
  That means, YOU GUIDE YOURSELF without a need for a higher authority.
  
  Sorry to burst your bubble.
  
  P.S. Just to let you know- if you can't figure out, WHY YOU ARE HERE? Then, that's your fault. You have control of making a purpose for your life, yet you don't get life, so you wouldn't understand that.
  
  P.P.S. Why do we exist? This generalized question is a question that needs no answer or need never be explained. Why do I say that- because we each control our own lives and their isn't a collective answer for all of mankind.
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  First off, How do they know that we have been here 10000 + years? carbon dating. Carbon dating is not accurate at all. As to where the first human being came from what is your answer to that.
  I also like how you twist things that Jesus has said. Jesus is the only way to the Father God, and we are not to believe in other Gods Jesus came and died for our sins so that we "MAY" have salvation.
  
  I definitly do not need to read one of your hubs about life when I am living my own life in Christ. Gods word is all I need.
  
  Thanks for trying to answer for marine though. Its been fun, and unfortunately I have things to do.
  
  God bless to you all.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But my point is not to manipulate your thinking. It is to get you to realize the truth.
  
  GOD is YOU nitwit.
  
  Your interpretation is screwed up.
  
  The only GOD in this damn world is the other human beings on planet earth.
  
  Why is each person a GOD? Because they can THINK for themselves! Because each one has a conscience and GUIDE themselves!
  
  What part do you not understand?
  
  It is detrimental to the nature of life -- by answering to any authority other THAN yourself.
  
  If you can't figure that out- then you truly do not understand your own life.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This attempt to meddle with Gods word is just amazing and shows why (if this is indicative of your ability to understand scripture) you hold your absolute belief, (in error) concerning 'self' and your 'self help' programs. (do you sell them?)
  
  Matthew 11:27 (King James Version)states:
  All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
  
  Hardly a command to get into a self realisation program in order to reach God.
  
  Now to get the full context of what Jesus was stating, we need to have the whole section. Unfortunately you misquoted Jesus in this sentance, you forgot to mention that He stated:
  
  John 14
  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
  
  Now how do you see those words indicating that Jesus was prepared to die so that I could have SELF WILL.
  
  Especially as a short while later Jesus is saying:
  
  Luke 22:42 (King James Version)
  Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
  
  You really are most odd if you think it possible to misconstrue Jesus's words to prove your selfish life concepts.
  
  Perhaps the following words sum the situation up:
  
  John 8:43-45 (King James Version)
  Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
  And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You have your interpretation. That's fine. I simply displayed the verses that were displayed.
  
  Now, I could go back thru the ones you posted, but then again, the first time, it took a while to post.
  
  So, you can continue blasting away. I know(beyond any shadow of doubt) that what you think you know is wrong.
  
  How can I say that? Because, I've have the answers to life's questions. The real questions that need be answered.
  
  If guidance is something you truly seek- then seek the truth and learn to be honest with yourself. Believing in imaginary god figures isn't based on life, it's based on control.
  
  That means, if you have any religious belief, built on any form of religious scriptures- then YOU are being controlled.
  
  You want real spiritual oneness- get to know yourself, become one with yourself and THINK for yourself. Being responsible for your thoughts and actions.
  
  Do something right for once? PROTECT YOURSELF against things that don't exist.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You really don't understand, how sad.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Amen Sneakers, they just cannot understand, although to give credit at least Cag's did not start throwing abuse like others do when that cannot challenge a statement.
  
  Gods word NEVER returns void!
  
  Though I doubt these posts are for Cag's benefit, his mind is closed and set on his selfish life plans.
  
  Thank God that I no longer think that way, because 20 years ago I did.
  
  So.... I'm not going to get any answer to my question:
  
  "John 14
  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
  
  Now how do you see those words indicating that Jesus was prepared to die so that I could have SELF WILL."
  
  Or will you answer me yet Cag's?
  
  I'm off to bed now, it's 1.30 am here in Spain, maybe I'll see an answer to my question tomorrow from Cag's?
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What am I suppose to understand?
  
  The meaning of Life? Sorry, got it covered.
  
  Religion is man-made, on the belief that mankind MUST answer to a higher authority, because a perceived notion of chaos otherwise.
  
  It's nothing but a control tool for those who are in power. It begs for you to use your imagination, for mythic answers.
  
  When the truth is- you should be answerable to yourself and your own individual conscience.
  
  That fact that you refuse to accept FULL responsibility for your life - here in reality- is disappointing to say the least.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I have plenty to answer for and I accept full responsibilty for my actions. I don't expect my record to be cleaned but I know I'll be forgiven. Praise The Lord!
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL]
  Where do these sheeple keep coming from?
  
  Beleeb in jeebus. Pleeze belleb wat I beleeb!
  
  Baaaah!
  
  Not even worth responding to them any more. They are just here to fight .
  
  Lk wat it sez in teh byble.
  
  JEEBUS ROOOLZ!!!!!
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You make me laugh! Why? Because you sit here and put others down about their beliefs and what expect not to pick a fight? ha ha ha ha
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But - your beliefs are totally offensive garbage.
  
  What did you expect? hehehehehe.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not like you! I don't want to 'convert' anybody!
  This is a forum, and I give my opinions. That's all !
  if you don't like it move on !
  and I never used the word ' pathetic' so Give me a break !
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Grrrr Get mad you angry sheep! This is what your emotionally driven government dependent belief teaches you to do. Insult individual thinkers to protect the faith!
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is all I have ever seen you do on here is insult, insult insult......whos the hypocrit? I know this evil world is not going to be around much longer, which is why I stand in my belief even stronger then before.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I know. The bible teaches you to stay strong in faith for when jesus comes back to reward you for being a believer. You can't wait until we are sent to hell can you? The world is evil from the separatism your ignorant faith causes.
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Another thing, it does not insult me to call me a sheep. I AM A SHEEP AND JESUS CHRIST IS MY SHEPHERD. That is more of a compliment. Thanks. That is the only good thing you have said so far.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, your government sheppard loves you. You are the favored sheep. Believe!
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Tell us how the good bok say the earth is a oblate spheroid - or least close enuf - so u going to burn in hell for not believing in jeebus.
  
  So - how does being a scum religionist se you apart from the animals again?
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLOLOL
  
  What? The GOLDEN WHEELS of saved peopel? ;lol:
  
  Thanks for the laughter.
  
  The bible is garbage - sorry. You must be very angry now. Too bad - perhaps you should nit have been so proud??
  
  And the earth isn't "round" - it is an oblate spheroid.
  
  I would have though a perfect god could at least have got that detail right? No? Awww
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My My you guys sure do seem to have all the answers huh.lol.
  So what do you believe in? Evolution? Im sorry but I think believing in evolution takes a lot more faith than being a christian.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Where did you get this information? From your pathetic man-made bible.
  
  Please, almost everything in is a fake.
  
  These 3 sentences you decided to formulate is also pathetic. Because, it show you have no understanding of life. If you did then you've not taken this approach.
  
  Yes, MANKIND has faults- live with it and get over yourself. And, to blame it on "GOD" is proper, because 'religion' is MAN-MADE and destroying society, simply because of the foundation belief.
  
  Debunking the bible has already occurred. You've not seen that it has been done, because you seem to think yourself as righteous and the truth is you're ignorant about life.
  
  I recently wrote a new hub about life, you might consider checking it out.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  More lies from spiderpig! Keep lying to protect your faith. Where did I say that I only wanted to argue? If that is the case, why have I agreed with many that have posted? Why have I agreed with anyone if my only goal is to argue. I would like you to quote me saying this. Do you ever back your statements with logic or only ignorant faith based assumptions. You clearly cannon't read previous post's or your simply refuse to read them before you comment. You refuse thought.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Her god uses emotional irrational statements to protect faith. She learned from the best. A true believer whether it defies logic or not.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He cant find his mind right now whats that?, what is the meaning of mind he asks
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Marine, you really are a most rude person.
  
  First, God is not imaginary, you just don't like Him, you refuse to speak to or listen to Him, but that is just your opinionated mind stubbornly refusing the reality of things, a mind subverted by demonic control that has sold it the 'pup' of humanity being better off without God.
  
  I don't know about Pam, but I spent nearly 25 years spouting the sort of crap that comes from your troubled mind BEFORE I found out the truth.
  
  My escapades into rational humanity thinking eventually led to a point where, even to me, it became apparent that there were spiritual entities working within me that were not my friends.
  
  You may not have reached that stage yet, that's normally because your little demon has managed to stay hidden deep inside you, like a worm or trojan virus, working your controls to get you to send out all this 'rationalist' spam designed to fill up we believers spiritual inboxs'.
  
  Well WE can see it, even if you cannot, maybe one day you will become aware of what's taken control of your life, when and if you do, you can be set free, until then, I accept that you have been infiltrated by the enemy and you are being controlled by demons.
  
  Now that is going to sound like a whole heap of BS to you, don't worry, that's how you have been conditioned to react.
  
  Please sit back quietly and seek to understand when you first started to think like you're doing.
  
  There was probably some traumatic event that happened around that time, and you did or said something which allowed access to the enemy into your life.
  
  When you are sitting back quietly, ask our imaginary God to reveal himself to you. Give our imaginary god your authority to reveal the truth to you.
  
  If our god is imaginary, nothing will happen will it?
  
  If you feel a queasiness when you are doing that, then be sure that you have been under demonic attack and infiltrated.
  
  If you had cancer you would want to rid yourself from it wouldn't you?
  
  If a doctor told you to go have a checkup, you would do it.
  
  So try what I say, when your anger subsides, and then let's see where we are.
  
  My 'mistake' (as a rational humanist)was to stand in my olive grove back of the house, and shout out to the empty sky "If you exist, you'd better make yourself known to me" - then went of smugly to berate the local Christians some more.
  
  Within 18 months I knew I had problems, because strange things were happening that I could not rationalise away; within two years I came to faith.
  
  You are just 'cusping' and I reckon that you will find Christ for yourself, if you are brave enough to actually give authority to the imaginary god you don't believe in.
  
  Shuck, why don't ALL you detractors take the test.
  
  If He does not exist, YOU have nothing to fear have you?
  
  Give the authority to our imaginary god to come into your life, say something like;
  
  "Jesus Christ, IF you exist make yourself known to me, I give you authority to send the Holy Spirit into my life, if you exist, make it clear to me in ways I cannot deny"
  
  Go on, I double dog dare you!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You went 25 years in your devolution. You are a weak belief dependent mind. You gave up on thought and turned to the bible.
  
  My little demon? Say it. I'm confused by the devil, right? You are as ignorant as the spiderpig.
  
  I asked your silly bible god. He said the bible is a contradiction to free will and an individual mind.
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOL
  
  Your imaginary friend does not exist Daddy.
  
  So - no one is being subverted by the imaginary bad guy that your imaginary friend inflicted on us.
  
  You really do talk a lot of nonsense.
  
  I mean - lets face it - if your imaginary friend existed - you wouldn't need to spend so much time trying to convince people he did.
  
  Sheeple.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well well, It comes as no surprise that you would crawl out from your hiding place to spout your venom and nonsense.
  
  Guess the challenge got your little demons reacting quicker than most, but then if you woke up, they would definitely be in trouble with the 'imaginary bad guy' that you can't even bring yourself to name.
  
  I spend time bearing the abuse of cretins like yourself because otherwise you guys would be unopposed in spewing your venom all over the forum, but let me ask you the same question:
  
  Why do you feel it necessary to defend your own god of evolution?
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  .... and I note that you would be too scared to do the imaginary god test!
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting assumption you made that I have never seriously looked or asked the question. Interesting assumption that I actually connected to what you call god and came to a different conclusion to you. Makes me think you have never made the connection.
  
  But insulting me by calling me a cretin and accusing me of being "scared" is not really doing much to persuade me that religionists are really in touch with a loving god. Quite the opposite in fact.
  
  Thanks.
  
  And I am not defending evolution. Scientific facts do not need "defending." Merely attempting to stop the further spread of your hate filled irrational belief system.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just using a bit of scripture to describe your posts...
  
  Titus 1:11-13 (King James Version)
  
  11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
  
  12One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
  
  13This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
  
  You see, God knew all about you and your little cabal of fellow travellers years before anybody even thought up the theory of evolution, and He gave us the words to know who you were and why you are here.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Where is the word evolution in your silly quotes? Oh yeah, you didn't use logic, you used faith and interpretation.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol It's pretty easy to blame everything on demons and the devil rather than use logical thinking.
  
  Do you think the devils venom is individual thought?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's so true. Thanks MM
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  See how you sheep are so supportive to protect the faith. I'm surprised you didn't throw an "amen" in there also.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Keep the faith, marine!
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Amen
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol perfect!
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Marine, you will end up where you deserve to be, God is no respecter of persons and wherever you choose to reside for eternity will be and is your choice.
  
  God desires that ALL mankind should dwell with Him, however logic dictates that when someone detests God and wants to have nothing to do with Him, then God, being the Creator of everything and omnipotent, MUST provide suitable accommodation for those who want separation from Him.
  
  In His grace and mercy He has made this 'reserve' for people who, like you, feel that YOUR WILL is more important than His will, and you will be able to reside there with all the other like minded folk, who chose to refuse God's offer of spending eternity with Him.
  
  Of course some of them are not as polite and pleasant as yourself, some of them will have been murderers, paedophiles, rapists, thieves, sadists, serial killers, child molesters and generally very free thinking folk.
  
  Now I know from your profile that you are a tough guy, so you probably won't mind, Hell you may even enjoy it for as long as you can stay on top of things, so to speak!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is this logical to you?
  
  My will is free will. Did the bible not teach you that? If your god wanted everyone to believe the same, he shouldn't have created *******INDIVIDUAL********* minds.
  
  Again, the bible is contradiction to logic.
  
  The god of your bible creates separation, not unity. This is why we disagree. Is that not logical to you?
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Of course it's logical to me, if you were staying at my house, but hated to eat met with me,because you were a Jewish vegan, I would have to provide a place for you to eat apart, or maybe with the goats!, but I LOGICALLY as you host, and believing in your right to exercise YOUR FREE WILL, would need to make a seperate dining room for you.
  
  It's the same with God.
  
  He gave you free will, He respects your right to your individualism and for you to use your free will, even when it is used to your detriment.
  
  If you choose to be separated from Him, so be it, you can be with all the others who chose the same thing by their actions.
  
  If this was not logical, then what should God do with those who refused to be with Him?
  
  Give me a better logical answer than to put them all together out of His sight and away from all those believers they hate, and let them do as they will, which is what they wanted all their life.
  
  Your will be done.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You blind sheep, devolop self awareness please!!!!! Notice you said the word *****SEPARATE*****
  
  The bible is "separatist". Amazing! Are we getting through or do you still refuse me as the devil?
  
  You are saying keep the sheep away from the free thinking individuals. Separatism. Thanks for defining it.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Errr... actually it's you guys that want to be separated from God and us, God definitely wants us ALL together, but if you guys want out.... so be it.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Believe or go to hell. You can't deny the facts. No matter how much interpretation you write.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not denying that at all, I'm simply saying its YOU who makes the choice, all God has done has accommodated your desire to be alone and not a part of Him.
  
  God will not be making your eternity hell, it will be the other people who share your opinions that will define the nature of your eternal fate
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  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOL
  
  Free will - Is it OK to say "F*** the holy spirit?"
  
  Or will that mean everlasting damnation?
  
  Baaaaah.
  
  Sheeple - Spam - it is maed of sheeple.
  
  Logic?
  
  You can say the word logic when you know what it means. For now - your irrational scary monster is a laughing stock. LOL I am actually laughing out loud at your invisible god.
  
  Why do you hate people who do not share your beliefs. Do they frighten you Daddy?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Mark you want answer my questions
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The simple point of your questions is to protect faith, not to learn anything. Do you blame anyone for not answering you?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There are just questions. Don't be afraid, give it a try.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The same with thought. Give it a try.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Support our troops!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have and still do. How much time have you served for your country? I sacrificed my mind to protect your freedom to have the sheepish mind that you have. You have no comprehension of sacrifice or self awareness or you would listen to reason and logic that you are the supporting sacrificial sheep.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know you sacrificed your mind that's why I said seek help. I know what PTSD does to the mind.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you fail again. Imagine that.
  
  I sacrificed individual belief for a group belief while I was in. I know things are difficult for you. I will try to work with you sheep. How much time have you served your country?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Can you please answer my questions first, if you can.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What questions you silly sheep? I already responded to the book you wrote earlier. Or did you forget to read as usual?
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Classic evasion, What a waste of a mind! Have a great day!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  WOW! Your ignorance is amazing. You are a true believer! Keep the faith!
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree wholeheartedly on the supporting of our troops! Amen to that!
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Logically shouldn't these 'atheists,scientists and evolutionaries' wish to answer these questions in case they looked like they couldn't by their silence?
  
  So yes, I guess I would blame people for not answering Pam.... maybe they cannot, because she is one formidable apologist.
  
  Nobody is protecting their faith except maybe you guys who profess to have none.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Only speaking for myself, faith contradicts absolutes. I have no absolute belief unless I have faith. Absolutes contradict a learning mind. An absolute is content. Belief of no absolutes is limitless.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What books are you reading?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't take books to put logical ideas together. Simple individual thought. Not so simple to trained thinkers.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What books are you reading?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did you have a mother?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did you miss reading this? Silly sheep. What questions didn't I answer for you?
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FarrahZimerposted 15 years ago
It seems Marinealways is trying to proclaim, in a poorly formulated question, that it is his/her belief anyone adhering to a religious belief is not of an individualistic thinking mind-frame--with the underlying implication that this is a 'bad thing' -- one can only infer that since the verbiage is poorly presented. So in a more intellible statement: anyone adhering to a religious belief is not individualistic -- that seems pretty narrow minded, refuting the statement he/she began with....
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How many years and dollars did you spend on your degree to write that. Simplified to your genius mind, grouped belief is a contradiction to forming an individual belief. I appologize if your degree didn't teach you this.
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  FarrahZimerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What does my education (and the time and money I spent on it) have to do with individual thinking. If my words offend you, then I can come down a notch. Simply put Marine, is this: I am blissfully religious and ignorantly (your word) faithful and yet, I am not offended by your thoughts. I value what you have to say -- because you have a right to you opinions. Your opinions reveal your values and no one can be dimished by what they believe. But you make statements of Absolutism which when interpreted in the most "simplistic form" mean anyone who disagrees with you has nothing valuable to say. And that is just as simplistic as the "group mentality" you so zealously oppose. Don't apologize for anything Marine...I am very grateful for what MY DEGREE taught me, but more than that, I am very grateful that I can value everyone regardless of whether they can agree with me or not.
  
  Cheers Love
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am asking you and anyone else to prove me wrong from a logical standpoint.
  
  Why can't this be done?
  
  Because I put my ideas together with logic, not faith. I do not believe in contradictions. There is no progress in a contradictory belief.
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  FarrahZimerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Certainly Marine, your question -- as you have posted it above -- is a VERY VALID one and of tremendous amount of value. I just visited your profile and you seem like such an diverse human being. You have served the country, you are a father, a husband, and have done such an array of jobs, you are no doubt very intelligent and interesting to say the least. But when you make condescending comments it makes me believe you don't really want to hear what others have to say but you just want to shun opposing view points as ignorant and that doesnt make for fun engagement. Know this, we are all walking about convinced that the path we have taken is correct, otherwise, why would we take it? And those paths are as varied as there are 'minds' -- all I am saying to you is that although you are completely different from me...I still think you have a lot to contribute, to inform, and that I can learn from your thoughts although they oppose mine. That's all I was trying to say --
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well thank you for being an honest and sincere person. I appreciate that no matter what you believe. I do have a few agendas which I have previously stated. 1. was to make people think. Agreeing does not make people think. Thinking comes from argueing and debate to minds that are open. 2. Was to expose how the religious belief is tied into the emotions of believers. There is no logic in an emotionally driven belief. I enjoy your comments and others for the disagreement. We learn far more from disagreements than we do from agreeing.
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  FarrahZimerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well stated Marine, I understand now that you did have an agenda and I respect your honesty about it. I agree opposing thoughts sharpen our own. I will definitely visit your hubs to try to give you more rebuttals. (wink) -- you are definitely fun and interesting. God bless, you...er...sorry (LOL Just kidding) :-)
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Likewise. I appreciate your honesty and open mind. I love rebuttals! No comment on the "God bless" wink. lol But thanks.
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
Why is the sheepish responses so boring and always repetitive?

What is, there is no individual thought! Let's play jeopardy!
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
Why is the sheepish mind so predictable for $500?

Alex, What is, their belief is defined within a book!
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
Why can I have a more entertaining conversation with myself than I can with sheepish followers for $10,000?

Daily Double!!!!

I will risk it all Alex.

What is, I have a mind!
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spiderpamposted 15 years ago
Schizophrenia- Talking with ones' self; Any of a group of psychotic disorders usually characterized by withdrawal from reality, illogical patterns of thinking, delusions, and hallucinations, and accompanied in varying degrees by other emotional, behavioral, or intellectual disturbances. Schizophrenia is associated with dopamine imbalances in the brain and defects of the frontal lobe and is caused by genetic, other biological, and psychosocial factors.

PSTD from serving the military is a leading cause.

In all seriousness SEEK HELP!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You silly sheep. Faith is the illusion. Logic is reality. I think you just described that you have schizophrenia.
  
  Is it you or me that talks to God? Silly sheep
  
  Are you done yet?
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
The simple fact that religious beliefs or beliefs founded on no facts, or beliefs based on emotions, is against the nature of man and woman.

You defy your own life and create irrational, non-logical, non-substance for a non-realistic belief.

Any practice of religion goes directly against the existence of mankind.

Those who are believers are blinded by their 'faith' or 'belief', because they think that they have rationalized their own belief based on facts.

The 'facts' usually come from religion or religious text.

As for Earth having an individual creator has been proven wrong, when science proved how Earth formed.

To think that a 'creator' provided the sequences that took place is not facing the facts proven and jumps to assumption based on nothing.

And, when you speak of a 'creator', theologians have constantly argued- if there was a creator for earth, then who created the creator? And, who created the creator's creator.

Life exists because it evolved on Earth. No explanation on how or why is needed nor need be answered. It's left up to those who are inept and deal in non-reality unrealistic people or places.
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  @Cagsil
  
  Your question on who created the Creator is a loaded one. It's like saying “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?”
  
  Scientist agree with law of Cause and Effect, and they concur in the fact the we wouldn’t be here if there was an infinite regression of causes concluding there must be 1 uncaused cause. That's God!
  
  I tried this with you before and you didn't answer, let's see if you will this time. How do you account for logic and thought in purely natural terms?
  In nature all you really have are 5 senses. Logic and thought no being one of them, so what is your basis for logic?
  
  How has sciences proved how the earth formed. The big bang? Since when do we ever see an explosion create order? Furthermore, What exploded?
  
  When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?
  
  When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?
  
  How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)
  
  How did thought evolve?
  
  How did flowering plants evolve, and from what?
  
  Do you honestly believe that everything came from nothing?
  
  When you take away the Creator you must define EVERYTHING by purely nature means, and until do can answer all the questions(and I have more), all you have is faith.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is a twisting of reality. To suit your own needs.
  
  Cause and effect- only means that action(s) have an effect. For every action there is an effect, regardless of whether or not, it is realized.
  
  If your trying to say that the effects(life) is from cause(God), there isn't any proof.
  
  The fact that you see "Life" as an effect of something greater is your problem. Life simply exists.
  
  Answer: I don't see any meaning or understanding from your question, because logic and thoughts are rationalized by each individual, based on their knowledge of life and understanding of their knowledge(wisdom). Logic is formed based on thoughts(knowledge and understanding). Thoughts are caused because of consciousness(and subconscious) and conscience working together.
  And, by the way, the nature of man and woman is not the same as nature of the world. There is a difference.
  
  This statement doesn't make sense, maybe because of a typo on your part.
  
  In nature of mankind(man and woman)- you do have 5 senses. Yes.
  
  Logic and thought? I conclude you meant NOT being one of them? So what is my(your) basis for logic? Logic is based on factual knowledge, understanding of that knowledge and reality.
  
  Do I look like your teacher. Go back to school if you don't understand how Earth came to be.
  
  Do you know something we don't know? Dead matter?
  
  Your inquiry is ridiculous and subjective. There a billions of questions about life, and most of them need not or ever be answered.
  
  Reproducing is an instinctive biological trait. You never have to be told how to reproduce. It is innate, in being a human with a consciousness/awareness of life.
  
  You seem to like comparing apples to oranges, and yet your looking to define a banana.
  
  You seem to be a confused individual.
  
  You concept of life and it's meaning is completely lost.
  
  To begin with I deal with reality. The reality of how thought evolve has been revealed was describe decades ago. If you don't know where to look, may I suggest a library, subject- the mind.
  
  As for how did flowering plants evolve, and from what?
  
  Why do you care how a planet became a flowering plant or where it came from? It's ridiculous, unless your a botanist.
  
  As for- Do you honestly believe that everything came from nothing? I could more easily believe reality, and the fact I do know, than to believe in the ONE Creator theory or idea.
  
  I mean, you are making something out of nothing. The only reason you belief as you do, is because there is no proof to deny what you claim. So, you can continue to argue all you want, but won't get you anywhere in the end.
  
  I no longer have any questions about life, because my life is now understood by me.
  
  If you have questions about life, I'm pretty sure some of those questions are questions that need never be answered or irrelevant to reality.
  
  When you take away your 'creator' - 'you must defined EVERYTHING by purely nature means'. How things are defined is based on facts, not nature means.
  
  If you took your 'creator' out of the equation- like for example: if 'religions' did NOT exist- YOU wouldn't belief there was a god.
  
  Because, if religion did NOT exist- you wouldn't know anything about a 'god' figure, because it wouldn't have been written or talked about by others.
  
  So, with that said. It's best not patronize others. It usually gets you burned.
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  aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well Cags you wriggled well on most of those points, but that's to be expected.
  
  Even in the most remote areas, tribes that have never been exposed to the modern world or had any outside contact have always had a knowledge of God, that's why God states that there are no excuses for rejecting Him.
  
  Romans 1.
  Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
  
  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
  
  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
  
  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
  
  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
  
  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
  
  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Again, you come at me with man-made scripture conjecture without facts.
  
  Just in case- facts are based on science and philosophy. That creates what is called= REALITY!
  
  You might want to try sticking to it.
  
  Your attempt to use scriptures to prove a point is irrational and poorly thought out. It shows you cannot fight or argue your point from an offensive position of strength. You reply was defensively written, as to oppose my offensive science and philosophy enforced facts.
  
  Nice try. Like I said- stick to reality. You thinking outside reality isn't healthy for you.
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
You silly sheep, which creates more wars, separatism or unity and equality?

Wake up from your little sheep minds if you haven't broken the light switch.
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
Individual thought is the devil!

Logic is the devil!

A mind is the devil!
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spiderpamposted 15 years ago
Warning to marine answering these questions will require thought.
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spiderpamposted 15 years ago
"When you take away the Creator you must define EVERYTHING by purely natural means, and until do can answer all the question, all you have is faith."

You have the speech style of a Nihilist, but you’re not quiet there. That’s good!

I’m surprised that you only stated opinion and NOT facts
You constantly talk about FACTS, yet you only present opinion and your opinion is NOT fact. So let'sdeal with what you answered with fact not your opinions ok....moving on.

Since you deny the FACT of Cause and Effect you can deny anything which explains why you feel the need to post here(Who can catch you when you‘re not running).

The why are you so quick to down talk anything?

Don’t you see that bizarre conclusion you have to make in order to avoid the Law of Cause and Effect which is a FACT

You must deny factual knowledge, understanding to hold to your “existence”

"Do I look like your teacher. Go back to school if you don't understand how Earth came to be."

No cop out answer the question.

You've shown no facts, enjoy your faith.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The FACT that you're going to such an extent, without reading the posts that are given to you or reading only what you want from them is ridiculous.
  
  You're the one with the subjective view, which was based on NO FACTS whatsoever.
  
  Again, it's not me having to prove whether or not GOD exists.
  
  I don't have to- reality says he doesn't exist by any and ALL definitions.
  
  Damn, I have been, all this time, trying to give you credit for being knowledgeable, but now I'm not going to even give you credit for any rational thought you could possibly come up next.
  
  Why? Because, you are completely out of whack.
  reply report
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  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is that a FACT!
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