Is someone only a Christian until they screw up?
Many are saying the horrible things happen because of lack of God. Many people who do bad grow up in the church and as an adult suffer a break and do something bad. My question to Christians is this, is someone only Christian until they do something horrible? It seems many Christians boot people out the second they do something wrong.
I would say you can't be a Christian until you screw up. We are all human and imperfect. We all make mistakes. That's what makes us come to the Lord. We wouldn't have anything to repent about if we were perfect. We would have nothing to be saved from with a holier than thou attitude. True Christians have open arms for everyone if they are honest about their own shortcomings and human nature.
That does sound nice; but it's that sort of attitude that gives hypocrites the license to pray all day in church and then go commit some unspeakable act before going back to pray again. I prefer human reason to relying on "God" for help.
I believe you are mistaken, Old Empresario. This is not the cry of the damned, hoping and praying to find solace in the sins and failures of "Christians", and in doing so, finding peace and justification to continue living in sin and shunning God.
Old Empresario your take is interesting. Christians don't go into their faith thinking "how can I sin today and then repent for it later." But, there are times we fall short and make mistakes. We fall down, but get back up to try harder next time.
No, love, that is not so.
There is not one of us that doesn't "screw up". In fact, St. Paul claimed that he was chief among sinners. I think perhaps, that I have now taken that dubious distinction from him, however.
Truth is, I do not know of one Christian (or human for that matter) that does not sin or know what it's like to fail at times. It is our human condition and destiny, but there is forgiveness and redemption available through God's Son, Christ Yeshua (Jesus). Please remember that Christians are not perfect - but they are perfectly forgiven.
None of us should boast about how good we are...because our righteousness is like filthy rags set before the Almighty's Holy eyes. The only way we can become acceptable to Him is being washed by the life-giving waters provided through His glorious Son, Christ Yeshua. If we boast about anything - it should be how weak we are and how powerful and wonderful our Heavenly Father and Son really are.
Please remember that without faith, we cannot please God. It is by God's grace (through faith) that we are saved...not by being "goodie2shoes" or by doing good deeds should anyone boast. (However, doing good deeds is a good indication of one's spiritual health). :0)
I pray this helps - C.J.
Got it: go to church, but don't worry about doing anything good for anybody. That's probably the most honest Christian answer I've ever heard. I see that even mentioning good deeds as a sign of spritual health warranted a snidey emoticon
I think you are missing the point, O.E. I did not say that insincere apologies are the cure for serial offenses or actively living in sin. On the contrary...repentance requires one to turn their backs on sin. Furthermore, good deeds CANNOT save you.
You know OE, it is your attitude that I find offensive lately on these Questions. I agree fully with CJ, though we do not agree on alot of things.
Sword; I honestly don't care enough about this to defend myself. But it should be enough satisfaction to you to know that when you're enjoying the Kingdom of Heaven, I'll be suffering the torments of hell for getting others to question their faith.
Why would you say that Old Empresario? There's nothing wrong with questioning things...I do it all the time. Just 3 years ago I questioned the tenets of Christmas and came away with a whole new understanding and have stopped celebrating it altogether
In theory once you're in you are in for life. :-)
Being a Christian doesn't mean a person doesn't do bad things.
It just means if they sincerely ask God for forgiveness they will still get to go to heaven. At least that's what they tell me.
Eclesiastes 7:20 "For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not."
The theory of "once saved always saved" is a heretical concept, promoted by only a few. Scripture clearly states, "Be thou faithful unto death and you shall have a crown of life." A Christian is called to a life of faithfulness...not perfection.
Its not our faithfulness but by God's grace only. We add or take away nothing to be saved. Its out of our hands. We can't earn it by being faithful. God knows our faithfulness when he saves us. Does he make a mistake?
No, there is no lack of God, but lack of the spirit of Godliness surely will tell untold consequences. Though It doesn't necessarily equal "no values", however, when people begin to assume "anything goes", they do it without any thought to the consequences.. Christians then perhaps get blamed the more, but perhaps that is because of a lack of true christianity. selflessness, unselfishness, loving ones neighbor, etc. Yes, it does seem that Christians in their fervor to promote their teachings, disregard you if you show up with a "fault". Perhaps they do it in their subconcious attempt to "protect" what they have. But the Love of God "covereth a multitude of sins.". also the Love of God "taketh away the sins of the world"
Apostle Paul said, "may it keep you, and preserve you blameless, at the appearing of the Lord Jesus". There is a work, or a law of Love that should be at work within each one of us, that makes us more forgiving of others. (or should)
Hi peeples ,
Being a Christian doesn't mean at all that we don't sin daily. We are only human and strive to be the best person we can be. With the love of God in your heart, you are not going to want to screw up, and will feel convicted if you do. This is why we pray and ask God to forgive us of our trespasses and also those who have trespassed against us daily. A relationship with God is that of love, and that love is what a Christian should try and show others daily.
Peeples when I first read this question I said , "Wow! Great question!" Then I read your description. So I do not want to answer before I am completely sure I understand what you are asking. You asked if people are Christians until they screw up? And once someone does something wrong other Christians give them the boot. When I read this in its entirety, it sounds like you are saying you are no longer a Christian according to man when you do something wrong.
Being a Christian is not about your belief in what people think about you. You don't turn Christianity on and off at a moment's notice. Yes people may no longer want you around or accept you for the decisions you make, good, bad or indifferent. But, God loves you regardless. And there are Christians who take a break from going to church, but that does not necessarily mean their faith and beilef in Jesus is gone. Do Christians treat each other wrong, absolutely! We treat each other the way Jesus was treated. Unfortunately, the cycle continues.
But, Christianity is in your thoughts, word and deed, in your heart. You make the decision to be a Christian. That is why God gave us free will. You make the decision to walk the walk of a Christian working to fulfill God's plan.
No one is infallible save God. Being Christians or Muslims or Buddhists are doomed to commit sins and mistakes.Religion is not a purgatory card.We should work hard to obtain our salvation.The whole universe is based on work and justice.
An other point i ve read it somewhere: man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault:) Leonard Cohen says:
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering.
There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in.
Have nice day.
This is a good question, especially in light of recent events. No doubt it will elicit differences of opinion. I'll try to stick to what I understand from the Bible. Being a Christian is not so much about good & bad as it is about a relationship. In reality we can't (on our own) get good enough to become a Christian or be so bad that God would deem us unacceptable. I'm a Christian because I have accepted a relationship with God made available by the death and resurrection of Jesus. When I believed that in my heart and declared that Jesus was my Lord I became "saved" and my relationship with God began. [Romans 10:9, 10] In that relationship God has taken on the place of a Father and I am now one of His sons. Doing something bad, in itself, doesn't change that relationship. For example, I am a father of two. My kids made mistakes like anyone else. When they did I didn't say, "That's it! You can't be a child of mine any longer!" Their errors hurt our fellowship at times but never our relationship. Plus when they would recognize and admit their mistakes it would remove any "burrs in the saddle" and our fellowship was restored. It's the same with God. He directs us that if we mess up (sin) but admit we messed up, He forgives and all is well. [I John 1:9] I'm continuing to discover that God is a lot more loving than we give Him credit for.
Would you also agree that if one chooses to continue living for sin after receiving the knowledge of salvation - that there remains "no more sacrifice for sin"?
Amen Shepherd 48! Well, put. I totally agree. God wouldn't be God if He cut off the relationship when we did wrong. Are there consequences for our actions, most definately. Just as Adam and Eve sinned and were punished, God sent Jesus to save us!
It is important for everyone to understand that one cannot claim salvation through Christ - and then continue to live like a heathen. "Be thou faithful UNTO death and I will give you a crown of life." Remember that even the devils believe and shudder
Our hope must rest on the work that Jesus has already accomplished. My studies lead me to the conclusion that my deeds didn't keep me out, nor will they expel me. What I believe is the clincher. Believe to get in; dis-believe to get out.
Sheperd48: Even the demons and devils "believe" in the works of Christ Yeshua - but why won't they be saved? You see, belief in and of itself, is not enough. Yeshua said, "come follow me". We are also told in Matthew to "believe and be baptized".
CJ: devils believe & tremble. They can't be saved. They had their chance. Jesus & Paul both said to believe. Living right is very important, but not the basis of my standing with God. Good discussion!
Short answer - no.
Long answer - anyone can be a Christian, in theory, by accepting Jesus. That whole deal. What truly matters is what most people fail to consider (and by that, I mean ignore), and that is how you handle your poor choices. If you reflect upon yourself, look to your spiritual leader [God] for direction, and honor the forgiveness you are blessed with by improving yourself as a moral person, then you have done everything God could want of you. Unless you hang out with a bunch of Puritans, you are still a Christian.
When you see Christians "booting people out" the second they do something wrong, it's because they're dicks. One of the **most important** teachings of Christianity is forgiveness. And when Christians are relentlessly unforgiving, they are not very good Christians. Hope this helps, and sorry for the poor image many brain-dead "Christians" give off.
Their is always grace. Jesus said, "No one is good expect God." However, the mercies and long suffering of God is only to bring us to repentance. We must acknowledge the bad within us, and strive to be freed from sin and wrong doings. Otherwise, Jesus accepts our shortcomings because He knows that we are just but weak flesh who sin. Even Paul said, " I continue doing that which i don't want to do."
If Paul acknowledge his shortcomings, we human beings should also acknowledge shortcomings of others but advise them in a gentle and friendly manner about the right thing to do.
The question that was asked is not very important for a Christian.
We all know that men live in sin.
We all can not free us from original sin because it is an intrinsic condition of our humanity.
The important thing is that people are realizing this and want to redeem.
God is infinitely merciful.
God is the way, the truth and the life.
God is love.
When we talk about "life" we are talking about God.
When we talk about "love" we are talking about God.
When we talk about "the way" we are talking about God.
And the verb "is" means exactly "is", it does not mean "represents" or "is identified with".
If a human being believes in love, in truth, in life, in the way to forward, in mercy, then he believes in God and he is a "human being", otherwise it can not be called a "human being".
It is not easy to know if you really believe in the above mentioned things.
But then, how do we know really? When we ask God to help us be strong, to give us the fortitude.
The fortitude is the best evidence of our belief in life, in truth, in love, in mercy.
they shouldn't be booting people out. The idea of Christianity in regards to sinning is that you confess your sins to God or Jesus and ask for forgiveness.
When Jesus was put on the cross, it was said that he died for the sins of all who believed in him and that when a person sins all they must do is repent and they shall be saved.
Never the less, there are many churches that will kick people out for being Gay or getting a divorce, etc. I never understood this completely as even if the bible did quote these actions as "sins" the bible itself was written by men and very little quoted by God sans the Ten Commandments and a few other statements.
It's really all in perspective some churches are judgmental others not so much.
There are some behaviors that cannot be allowed to fester within a church community...practicing homosexuality and sexual promiscuity are just two of them. What is important is that the church community does not allow sin to flourish around them.
All Christians screw up.
The hope is that they will forgive themselves and others for those screw-ups.
Those who "boot" people out because they no longer seem to fit in are also "screwing up." They are no longer bestowing love as a Christian should.
I continue to screw up on a daily basis, but my awareness is increasing. I'm catching myself sooner. One day, I might actually make it back.
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