Num 31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against Jehovah in the matter of Peor, and so the plague was among the congregation of Jehovah. Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
It is a krock! yes. I was not interpreting gods words as the truth. I was making note of the contradiction of the bible. With purpose I selected those two verse. If you cannot see the difference between my quoting as a hermeneutic exercise and you interpreting as gospel... Your loss.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
Here is the entire passage not leaving anything out, what my perception of this means: Every man who has laid with a child should be killed and every woman that has allowed it to happen and knew about it, should also be killed for this is not pure. You left some things out and incest, rape, and pedophilia is wrong any woman that allows it to happen really has a few mental issues and needs to be addressed it should never, ever hurt to be a child !
I'm sorry, but I don't see 'how' you reached your conclusion that this statement is about incest or rape or pedophilia for that fact.
I don't mean to sound rude or come across that way, but there is too much ambiguity in the singular statement to arrive such a conclusion. No offense.
As stated earlier- by SirDent and Others- this statement is part of a broader message about "War"?
So, please explain your position and how you achieve your understanding? I'm only interested in seeking knowledge and increasing my understanding of others, and the way they for their own foundation for beliefs.
I'm not trying to attack your beliefs, but to understand them.
I based my conclusion when I read the entire scripture on-line I will not discredit anyone especially Sir Dent because he knows that Bible like the back of his hand. Here is the link and I may have read into it incorrectly but it was my perception based on the two passages. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/num/31.html Yes it speaks of war at the very beginning and it talks about war through the passages but the 2 passages you picked lead me to believe it had to do with incest and a mother not protecting her children. I guess since I am a mom I may have read into it to deeply.
Did someone teach this to be the meaning of the scriptures you read? I understand a totally different take on it based on the vengence on the Midianites. There is a reference of killing unclean boy's and every woman that has slept with a man save the virgins because of a plague. After a week anyone who touched these Midianites was allowed to return to the camp. Even the gold and silver plunder had to be melted down before anyone could touch it. Please explain further where I have missed your meaning.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Rom 7:15 For that which I do I know not: for not what I would, that do I practise; but what I hate, that I do. Rom 7:16 But if what I would not, that I do, I consent unto the law that it is good. Rom 7:17 So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. Rom 7:18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not. Rom 7:19 For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise. Rom 7:20 But if what I would not, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. Rom 7:21 I find then the law, that, to me who would do good, evil is present.
What Paul is talking about is the difference between flesh and spirit. The spirit wants to do good, but the flesh sometimes gets in the way of the spirit.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: Rom 7:23 but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members. Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
But, perfection can never be obtained, not on any sustained level for an absolute period of time. One can achieve perfection, once in a great while, through honest action, but to achieve the level of perfection talked about is unachieveable by any standard, because mankind is flawed, and we know it.
It is for each of us to accept that we are flawed, and move on. I strive in perfection in my thoughts and my actions, but I do with belief in myself and faith in my own abilities. I know I am going to make mistakes, but that doesn't stop me from doing things.
This I guess was more productive than I thought it would be.
If I have faith in myself, I am then calling myself God. God did not make a mess of things. It was man that messed up.
I have some abilities, yes, but God has all abilities.
We can only knwo in part becasue we are limited in oruselves. Noone can fully understand God and there's no point in even trying. God cannot be explained. He can only be revealed.
Adam was created in the image and likeness of God. This didn't make him God. He was meant to live forever. His body was eternal. After he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, his body changed. The spirit of death entered into the picture.
Not in so many words. Jesus said, "Follow me." That would make it a religion sort of. James wrote about pure religion, Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Okay, I am of the understanding that 'religion', nevermind God's teachings- is a business....the #1 income generating source on the planet and I also know the basic knowledge, as to describing what 'religion' is.
Religion is a code of ethics, bonded or bound, to a higher cause.
Now, I have my own background and experience, that tells me that 'religion' is false and it worships a false idol.
From what I gather- you look at it as "God's Teachings", and I commend you for that.
Can I ask you one more thing- Who is God exactly?
I ask, because I am a failed student of the teaching of religion, I broke thru the hoax it purports. I am able to introspect on many things, at different levels of clarity and seeing through 'religion' was quite easy, once I understood what I was looking for.
But, I'm not trying to mock you or your belief. Your belief- it's view- of God's Teachings--is of interest. How do you separate God's Teachings from Religious teachings, if you use the same quotes? Same scripture?
You do realize that people do spend their entire life, claiming to be enlightened, yet they have no clue.
I've run across more people who know nothing about their religion, because they've never studied it.
I spent a good portion of the first 17 years of my life, as a part of the 'Catholic' religion. Then I spent the another 23 years studying it in-depth.
So, I've personally accepted the challenge of living my life by doctrines and came to a self-realization, and a conclusion.
Why you work is ranked at all is beyond me and not for to care about. It has no sufficient baring on this case. Regardless, if your work was the #1 read book in all the world, it would make no difference.
Only reason being is I, who matters, don't recognize your standing.
Cannot force you to relate with what I say but do understand many are able to relate and appreciate .You claim to have spend 20 years researching on religions and come up with a statement that religions have nothing to do with god.
Why should a book ranked next to Bibles be so insignificant for you.? I know what I went through to put this book together, if you think its is easy you are only fooling yourself.We are on a religious forum.
What self realization have you come to ? god doesn't exist?
Religions are a business. Each religion has a code of ethic and are bonded or bound to a higher cause.
Most religions equate the higher cause to be GOD's will.
When the truth is- NO ONE knows what God's will is truly and the bible used by religions, this includes every other bible or renamed bible- is false.
In my study, I found Jesus' work wasn't religion, but he was a teacher. You and I have had this conversation before.
And, you agreed on some points, but not on others.
I find it interesting that NOT all of Jesus' work was included in religion. Why? I know why now.
Why doesn't religious scriptures have ALL his disciples writings included? I know why now.
Because, it's based on a mystical philosophy for which it is damning to the nature of a human being.
I'm not taking anything away from your accomplishment. But, I don't have to recognize it either. It is my choice.
Yes, God doesn't exist and to understand it, the teaching must be fully absorbed and accepted, and applied.
The ACT of being selfless leads to be selfish.
The ACT of suppressing desires is self-destructive.
The ACT of 'knowing' GOD is to come to the self-realization that there is no god.
You can not KNOW something that doesn't exist, even if you tell yourself it does exist. It is biologically impossible to obtain perfection, as a human being. It is biologically impossible to force the will to believe in something one isn't sure is real.
Example: If you have a ball in your hand, and you will yourself to believe the ball isn't in your hand- it's impossible to do. And, on the other hand- if you don't have a ball in your hand, it is also impossible for you to believe that you do have a ball in your hand.
Therefore- no human being can ever be 100% positive that God does actually exist.
Hence, the hope or faith bestowed is for nothing, because 'religion' teachings can not get the job done. It only leads to self-destruction if followed.
It finding who you are, your inner or god self is the Light.Dying becoming this Light and coming back is enlightenment. We are not talking about some mundane enlightenment like oh I got to exercise or eat more or less or get up early or have had too many girl friends should settle down etc.These mundane thoughts are very common for all of humanity.
Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)
You write for a living, ye? What part of my last post do you not understand? Maybe re-read it s l o w l y, and take in every word, in context of the sentence, and then you might understand! (I'm hopeful!?)
Just wasn't looking at the time dj. Did I announce myself as the overlord of bible concordance? No. I slapped together two contrasting biblical quotes and fed it to the forums as an exercise of humour.
You should know by now, that words on a screen cannot convey the difference between a joke and a criticism. If you intend a joke,say so, or put jk. Maybe a smiley. In any case, you are well aware of the sensitive nature of these forums, so I take it as a double meaning. Maybe I'm wrong, but I won't make you (have a little) spew, by apologizing for my "interpretation".
I don't know. Maybe this is TOO simplistic for you but, here goes. There is this thing called TIME. We live in it and it controls us. We don't control time. So, the things written for a PAST (time), say, like in the OT, to the Hebrews/Jews, just may not apply today. We, living in the NT era, are (supposed) to listen to/live by the NT. So, even though it's God's word you read in the OT, it (just) may not apply to you and/or me PERSONALLY today.
No intellectual postering thanks. Intended personal insult noted. Are you choosing to ignore your own book? I have never understood why you chop and change what you will accept as truth in your book, what you take literally, what you have to fit into a "time frame" The psychotic nonsense in the old testament is not to do with time frames, it's got to do with the displays of psychosis by a supposed god!
See what I mean? Obviously, the mentality is, the last one to post must be the winner. Whoever leaves must have given up, and is a loser. OK, I lose. No doubt there will be another poston top of this one, but I'm off now. Earnest knows, it's 11;20-something here. Have fun.
"Lyman's" Terms? That's better than just a "Freudian slip".
I thought this thread was for posting the pure word of God. "Rattle them off" is what the man said. I offer you no explanation. Rather, I offer a celebration. Those that know the Lord understand the passages that I post and they appreciate them. As for others, well, I can’t make everyone happy.
Instead of asking me, why don't you crack the books and start studying...
The Bible is not up for interpretation. 2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Logic is also part of who we are. If we acted purely off of emotions with no capability of reason and logic, we would all be running around like animals. There are a lot of people that don't use reason and logic in life. Most are in prison. Faith is emotions. I didn't say emotions weren't good, I said we have the ability to separate from emotions to make logical decisions.
The bible is truth, Scripture can have diffrent applications for the problems that each of us may have. However 'prophesy' has no personal interpretation. When prophesy is interpreted the ramifications are felt through out scripture. Our interpretations may be flawed but This does not take away from the truth as written is scripture.
People does many things with it. It remains the same. You can do many things with a ball bat. You can play a game with it or you may control someone with it. It has the same character regardless of what people do with it.
There are some things that can not be separated. Life, emotions, logic. To eliminate one from this mix is like taking baking powder out of a cake mix recipe. Yea you can still eat it however flat it becomes.
Evidence is not necessary to have faith BUT Most everyone of faith feels that they have evidence to support their faith. One mans trash is another's treasure. What one man calls evidence another disregards, and vice=Visa
Knowledge and Wisdom, combined with Logic, becomes belief, reinforced by faith.
Faith: is to be unquestioned belief something is true.
The only way for 'faith' to be unquestioned, is if it is reinforced by a belief, created from logic, which is based on knowledge and Wisdom.
If you cannot make 'faith', in the order, in which, I have provided. Then you have morally wronged yourself and your life.
It is NOT logic, nor intelligent, to base a belief on something not based on reality. It's wrong. If you base a belief on something that can not be proven to be real, then you are gullible and lack knowledge and/or wisdom, to make a logical based belief.
Your faith is misplaced, and should be in yourself, to know and understand your life, and guide oneself. The only two places FAITH should be placed- (1) In yourself, and (2) Other people.
Forensic exeprts examine evidence. After examining the evidence they come to a conclusion. They didn't actually see what happened, but they have faith that their conclusion is right based upon the evidence gathered.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
No, you are wrong. They take logical steps in finding out what happened. They do not get irrational and excited about the first peice of evidence they think they have and believe they have the case solved. Go present a case in a courtroom based purely on faith without logic and see how quick you get stuck in the crazy house.
I did not say they got irrational about the first piece of evidence. You are twisting what I said around. If they have 20 pieces of evidence or a thousand, they still didn't actually see what happened.
It is as easy to say that I have no logical reason to believe that If I can not see it from my front porch or on my drive to work, then it does not exist without having faith that it does.
A logical mind can find reasons to logically deny anything that it does not want to accept. Excuses and alibis are everywhere. The air we breath is full of them. Just pick one that applies to whatever that you want to apply it to. I trust my faith farther than I do my reason.
It is not illogical to believe in God in general, because you cannot demonstrate logically that God does not exist (not talking about what characteristics he has, just whether he exists).
However, it is not logical that an all-compassionate all-merciful, and all-powerful God would stand by and watch millions of fairly decent, or even just average, people end up in hell. It is literally illogical.
- But if I have made a sincere effort to consider Christianity (which I have), and if honestly want to do the right thing, and my decision is that I can't accept Protestant theology exactly as presented (in North America, at least), then I have not "chosen hell." I have decided, using God-given intelligence, that this theology is not (completely) right.
- Also, an "all-compassionate loving father" would give his children free rein but step in when one of those children were in irreversible peril.
I don't have a beef with you personally -- in fact I quite enjoy your posts, whether I agree or not (you seem more balanced, on the whole, than some other posters, for example).
"Deciding for myself" is another way of saying "choosing." According to Christian theology, we are asked to make a choice when presented with the Gospel -- a choice as to whether or not we believe it. In other words, we are asked to employ the mental faculties (presumably) given us by God (and this includes the heart, in some way, I realize).
But if I decide I do not believe it, I have not said: "I understand the message, believe it, and now reject it"; I have taken the path required, ie, considered the message, and decided it does not make (complete) sense to me...
As to discipline. I have no problem with the notion that a father might discipline, but a loving father knows that a punishment must fit the crime, and the child must see some sense behind the discipline. For most people, they are simply not bad enough to deserve such a horrendous punishment.
I just not exactly sure what Hell is. For many hundreds of years there has been many interpretations of what hell is. It is sad to say but I have lost faith in interpretations, I do still have faith that there is a God, and an afterlife. In fact I believe that there is more life here and now than we are aware of.
For instance; I don't think all of "The Saved" all want to go to the same kind of heaven. My perfect heaven would be another's hell. What if the tree of Life tastes like boiled spinach.
I believe god is possible but I don't believe in god. however, if there was a god and I live my life by the ethos that there is that possibility and I believe in good morals, if there is a god, then I only have logic to interpet that plan of living a decent life. I cannot talk to god but I can use my human knowledge of morals and of logic to live an ethical life. Logic does not dispel god. Some on these forums are very confused about logic and use the term as if it were some tool of athiesm or science or evolutionists. that just is not true. logic exists, it is pure, it is a form of mathematics. logic cannot prove evolution and nor can it prove religion. belief in god is about faith and you can use logic to strengthen your faith. logic is not about proof. logic is not more about evolution or science that it is about religion or god or any other thing. I have probably repeated myself here but I find it rather strange how something so basic can be so misunderstood. people should not use words they do not understand, it only makes the fool.
Faith in being a part of something larger than our human self (God, Universal Mind, etc..) and logic are both important, and can both have blindness when not balanced by the other in all decisions of life.
We were created with both potentials and are to use them in balance. Faith is the heart and intuition... and logic is the mind...we have both.
Nope, not a child. That's why I do the manly thing and form my indivdual belief rather than rely on a controlling book of illusions that limits my mind. It doesn't take a book to understand morals and a conscience. One belief is not absolute.
Here is a little of gods word to help keep the true believers shaking!
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB) Sure you've got the only true bible?
1.You're for photo id's for all voters in an attempt to save money with less ballots!2. You're for photo id's for less wear and tear on voting machines!3. You're for photo id's for having to open less precincts!4....
I remember that one day As I looked at youYou were standing on the bayLooking at the crewThe ship on the ocean floating awayThe wind blowing the leavesFrom the nearby treesNo matter what you do I should never give up on...
If you disagree with the Bible, please do not spam this thread.If you do you are being rude and I will quote the OP and report the issue for hupages to decide whether it violates forum rules or not.This thread is to...