The Bible Is Separatist

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   marinealways24posted 15 years ago

   -When I was reading the bible, it was logical to see that it is separatist by separating believers from non believers while creating the illusion to it's believers that it is about unity and love. I understood the bible was separatist from the first few pages, then close to the end, my idea was confirmed.
   
   Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
   
   In my belief, I don't think those of other beliefs are possessed and "unclean".
   
   Amazing out of all the religious I have talked to on here and only 1 has ever admitted they are in a separatist belief.
   
   I thought religion supposedly taught honesty?

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      Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      How many presumptions can you state at one time. We are all united in our creation by the creator, EVERY knee will bend when He comes back. As far as believers and unbelievers being united, we obviously are not, witness any conversation here on Hubpages. But who is the seperatist ? In the end we will all once aqgain be united in acknowledgement of God, then we will be divided by OUR choice.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         How sad that you hate others so much you will tell them this.
         
         You must feel very, very worthless.
         
         I really feel sorry for people such as yourself with such low self esteem they need to threaten EVERY knee will bend. What a shame your beliefs are such hate filled garbage.
         
         Too bad. Sad really.
         
         I pity you.

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            Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I hate noone, I truly do love people, some are easier to love obviously, it is not me stating this, but repeating what I know, peace be with you

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               Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I see. You did not state this. You are merely repeating what you know.
               
               I pity you.

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         Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         First off- I find your post as insulting, as I do witness your own hypocritical view, by attacking Marine. And, then come out with the B.S. of a creator.
         
         Man, you must be delusional. That's all I have to say about it.

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            lyricsingrayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            

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         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         If we were all united, separatism wouldn't exist, make sense? You are the separatist. It even says so in your belief book. If you are so angry at non believers for disagreeing with your faith, stop "yoking".

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      SparklingJewelposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I believe the sense of separation that appears to be talked about in the bible is the human interpretation of the "message" received from "God".
      
      To me the message is that we are One with the God Source of All Life and that when we started thinking and doing particular things in partiuclar ways, we are separating ourselves from that Oneness with God. It's not about literally moving apart from others, but separating onesself from one's Source of life, i.e. God Energy, in mind and heart.
      
      And then it became easier for people to retain that Oneness within as a sense of unity,  by living with others of like mindedness of daily habit and such...hence, religions, belief systems, philosophies, etc...
      
      Belief systems can be helpful, but ultimately an individual is to walk alone with the Creator...for no one else experiences "God" the same way as another one does.

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         SparklingJewelposted 15 years agoin reply to this

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         Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         beautifully stated, thank you for that

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            Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            So EVERY knee will not bend when He comes back?

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               Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               All knees will bend when we are together with the Creator, a reunification of created with creator, an involuntary reaction of worship when we are in His presense

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Sorry you are so hate filled you think this. Still - it is not you stating this - you are merely passing on what you know.
                  
                  I pity you.
                  
                  So sad.

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                  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Why do you like being on your knees so much? More convenient? I'll leave that open to interpretation.

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               SparklingJewelposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Hi Mark   up to your old tricks, heh ? chill   How ya been? So I read you are looking for "real world" work...join the club.
               I am still cleaning houses to keep myself feed while building another business, a bit at a time.

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  I am indeed. I cannot take sitting in front of an electronic box much longer. It may be lucrative but this is three years of sitting on my ass. Enough is enough. 50/50 is OK, but that is it. LOL

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                     SparklingJewelposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Are you still on the Riveria (spelling?)...or wherever you are? what's happening in your section of the planet that is of interest? How's your wife and kids and family...?

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                        Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes, still on the coast (Riviera) - but I am moving out to the country in the next three months or so. Family is good - but there are things afoot here - as in the USA - that are beyond my control and suggest I would be best placed in a position to grow my own food and have my own water source.
                        
                        Sadly, the financial crisis - which is not happening - is going to have a big impact on all of us and we are going to see some changes.
                        
                        Hopefully not another world war. But - we have an issue here in Europe with an excess of unemployed young men. As I suspect you do in the USA.
                        
                        And - you know how much I like war and armies and the whole nationalist BS. But - this is "god's" way of dealing with an excess of young men.

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      cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      really?
      
      i'm shocked, shocked i say (haha how was that for sacrcasm)

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         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         lol it was good. I think it is amazing how many believers are under the illusion that they are in a unifying loving belief.

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      rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I do believe as there were a few authors of the various books in the bible where separatism was preached.  If you recall as Christ was tried and convicted and crucified all denied him and ran astray to avoid getting the same fate.  Their faith was weak at that time and even as Paul wrote of separatism many years later he was concerned of the believers being drawn away by the unbelievers.
      
      But if you look in Mt 9:13b Christ states that "For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners"  This seems to contradict the separatist idea.  In Mk 16:15 Christ said "Go into all nations and preach the good news to all creation."
      
      These two instances do show a contradiction to the character of separatism as outlined by Paul.
      
      As you can tell there is not a clear line if you put them together. But if you apply them to the historical events and the actions of the players there is somewhat of an explanation.

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         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         You are mixing up the quote you posted. He called the sinners to preach his belief to them, not make friends. Then he later says they will burn in hell for not believing him.

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            rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I am not following you.  Are you referring to my quotes or yours as I can't find the text you are talking about? I am quoting Matthew 9:13b and Mark 16:15.  Where are you quoting?

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               marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I am quoting what I remember. I'm referring to your quote But if you look in Mt 9:13b Christ states that "For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners"
               
               He later contradicts himself by preaching that believers are favored over non believers. Just because he calls the sinners doesn't mean he likes them, it means he wanted to preach to them. He still preaches that only those that believe in him can get into heaven.

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                  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't know if you have that right as I can't reference it but Christ also said Love the sinner and hate his sin.  I don't know where Christ said he didn't like the sinners only their sin or sinful ways.

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                     marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     What did he say about those that don't believe in him and ask forgiveness for their sins? I think you know this one.

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   marinealways24posted 15 years ago

   Is separatism God or the Devil?

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   Valerie Fposted 15 years ago

   If you choose to do anything different from some other group, you are a separatist.

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      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Theres a difference in that and your group telling people they are the devil.

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   kessposted 15 years ago

   You must keep in mind that the bible is not one author and therefore to classify all the scripture written within under one heading might be misleading.
   
   Nevertheless, as to your point marine, yes I believe the different authors did have separation in mind.
   
   I understand from you post though that you seem to think that it is not a good thing for it to be separatist.
   
   But the opposite is true, for the goal is finally to separate good from evil, light from darkness, truth from lies etc. eventually all positive from all negatives .
   
   This is why I encourage people to search within themselves for the positives which are clearly defined by truth.
   With the mind  to actually to do, for doing would establish yourself in the kingdom of the Good or God.
   
   The illusion of love which you described is merely truly a religious illusion.
   
   For religion seeks to accomodate all for it benefits them.
   But the truly Godly will indeed love all, but will not necessarilly try to include all, for they do know that there are those who cannot be for the good for it is not part of their nature to be so.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Nonsense. This means nothing.

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   Presigoposted 15 years ago

   not sure what the pity is for. Does it make you feel superior to say that ? I need no pity and if I did it would be nice to know that your pity would have some sort of sincerity to it. Otherwise its just words to be used to occupy space

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      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      No. I genuinely pity you. You are unable to discern the hate you spread and claim that you are not stating it yourself - merely repeating what you know. What a shame you cannot see the hatred in your soul.
      
      I pity you. You are worthless and deserve pity.

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         h.a.borcichposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         WOW - worthless? Is that nesessary because of a disagreement?

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            h.a.borcichposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            
            Am I correct in understanding Cags is going to be an impartial judge in the great debate? Nothing against you, but I am asking.
            And yes I read this thread. Presigo stated his thoughts civilly. He was not spewing hate. I am just stating my opinion and asking questions. Holly

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               Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               EVERY knee will bend when He returns?
               
               And this is civil?
               
               MY KNEE WILL BEND IN HOMAGE?

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         Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         what is hateful in acknowledging our Creator ? why is that deemed by you as hateful, The fact that there is a CXreator should not be something deemed hateful. Is it hateful to acknowledge a painting by Picasso as having been created ?

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            Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            No - it was "EVERY knee will bend when He comes back."
            
            Sad - I pity you.

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            Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            When you want to gain an advantage in any conversation, it would be helpful, or an added bonus, if you didn't compare mystical entities to real life people.
            
            When you make that comparison, then you've obviously make a mistake of even getting into a conversation, that is based in reality.
            
            So, with that said- when you decide to come back to reality, and stop living outside it....look us up....we're sure to point you in the right direction.
            
            
            
            How sad?

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   Valerie Fposted 15 years ago

   Mark, don't "pity" any of us. If you really did, you'd have the mercy to not rub our faces in it.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      No - I pity you also.

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   h.a.borcichposted 15 years ago

   I just reread the thread...and am quite sure you judged him worthless prior to the statement you say justified it.
   
   Not trying to be nit picky, but I am truly trying to understand about these forums, the up coming debate. Unless I ask, I can only make assumptions. Holly

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      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      http://hubpages.com/forum/post/reply/614942
      
      
      
      Still sure?

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         Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I appreciate your forthrightness and tenor in which you are trying to take this thread, it makes for better reading and allows for growth

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   h.a.borcichposted 15 years ago

   Yes, I missed that. My apologies.
   
   Am I to assume you are justified to deem worthless someone you disagree with? Holly
   
   This is to Mark

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      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      No - only those who tell me that my non belief in a god is invalid and I WILL BEND MY KNEE.
      
      But - that is OK with you right? Seeing as you also think I WILL BEND MY KNEE when He Comes Back.
      
      

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         h.a.borcichposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Mark,
         
           You are saying it IS ok to call someone worthless over a disagreement. If he had made the judgement I would still have asked the same question of him. I am trying to understand what goes on in the forums.
           But your statement about what you think you know about me...well that is just bull pucky on your part. I have never stated my belief on that so you are guessing at best. Apparently I do not even have to state my belief to upset you. I wonder why that is?
           Again I am asking questions and I have not tried to apply any of my beliefs on anyone. If the forums are for debates and sharing, that should be ok with you? Holly

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            Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            So - is it OK that he tells me MY KNEE WILL BEND IN HOMAGE?
            
            Odd - because I do not see you calling him out here.
            
            Why is that?
            
            You are calling me out.
            
            Now - what has upset you that you need to call me out? Despite the fact that I have proven to you that I only called him worthless AFTER he said that. Even though  you were unable to read that for yourself and already called me out on that.

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   Presigoposted 15 years ago

   Speaks for itself. Look at the hatred propagated by those who disagree with the faithful. Peace be with you

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      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I love you. Logic be with you.

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    h.a.borcichposted 15 years ago

    Mark,
    
      If he had made judgement on you I would have asked him. It is not based on who believes what I do.
    
    Here's what I am trying to understand. If two people disagree and neither will bend, why can't they just accept that they disagree? Must they tear each others charachter apart? Will it change that they disagree?
    
      If you told him you were certain there is no god (or whatever your belief is)and he judged you worthless I would ask him why.
    
      I am capable of being civil with people who are not of my belief - I can even have fun on the forums with them and genuinely enjoy their hubs. I just don't bash them with my belief or judge them. It is not my job to change them. I would not be happy with myself if I started calling them worthless over a disagreement. So I am asking questions trying to understand how this all works here.
    
      Also if you would answer me one more question...What is the proper term I should use when refering to someone who does not believe? I have asked this of Q but did not yet have an answer. So if I use an offending term it is unintentional.
    
      Holly

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       h.a.borcichposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I did apologise for what I misread. I don't know how else I could fix the mistake, but the apology is sincere.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Sorry - can you not read? He did make a judgment on me. He said EVERY KNEE WILL BEND when He returns.
       
       This includes me. Does it not? Therefore my knee will bend when He returns. Which means my un/dis/non/a belief is invalid. Because I will be bending my knee and He will be returning.
       
       This is offensive to me. It in no way acknowledges the fact that I do not believe the same crap he believes, and I personally think that any one who does believe this stuff has very low self esteem and thinks themselves worthless.
       
       Which is a shame. And I pity them.

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          cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          a lot of um, "passionate" christians here (and outside of HubPages) LOVE to use this time and time again, which is essentially saying:
          
          i'm in God's corner and YOU'RE not, so when Jesus comes, you are all going to have hell to pay neener neener, which really offends people. that's not what being in God's little circle of trust is supposed to be about. it's like they are in some powerful, celestial clique and we are lower than worms and one day God'll show us "unbelievers". i don't think Jesus was smug, although he had every right to be.
          
          
          
          i used to be Catholic. and i never had that view, that view that i was special and privileged because i had my faith.
          
          in fact, i was humbled by it.
          
          p.s. just because people don't believe in the christian god doesn't mean they are not spiritual or that they don't have faith in something outside of themselves.

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             marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I agree with you. In regards to your last part, they believe faith in any being outside of their Christian God is considered an "Idol" as seen in the opening statement. I don't think many religious can comprehend an individual belief because many have never formed an individual belief.

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    h.a.borcichposted 15 years ago

    Yes Mark, I can read. What I couldn't understand is how two grown men can disagree to the point of having to denigrate each other.
    
      Yes , he said something you found offensive. I have been told on the forums that my god is a joke, psychotic, etc, but it doesn't make me judge them as worthless. They can't actually damage my faith with mere words anymore than someone can make your knee bow with mere words.
    
      If this were two kids arguing and getting down to name calling and judgements, I would understand what was happening. Then I could tell them to get over it - it's words. They would sit on the couch together til they could fake nice. ( Trying to lighten up here.)
    
      But it is words - isn't it? Self respect is not limited to ones belief in whatever. Holly

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       And still - you are calling me out.
       
       Why is that?

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    Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago

    Well - it seems no matter which way I explain it - I can never get across to them that this is offensive.
    
    And I have tried everything from "what would Jesus have said " to - F** you mother f******.
    
    Nothing gets through. Nothing.
    
    This is the problem with that aggressive belief that gid has spoken to you. Nothing will penetrate it.
    
    One kid comes back from Iraq in one piece - proof that god exists. Ignore the 4000 dead kids.
    
    Impossible to get them to understand how offensive that is.

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       "One kid comes back from Iraq in one piece - proof that god exists. Ignore the 4000 dead kids."
       
       Amazing analogy, I can't believe I have never thought of that. There is no logical arguement that anyone can have against that. I think the main difference between believer and non believer is 1 is more logical and the other is more faithful. I don't think many religious understand how or why their emotions are tied into their faith and belief. I think this is the reason many will refuse anything that disagrees with their belief, because of the emotions tied into it.

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          Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          actually I agree with some of what you said. Faith and logic are two different approaches, as far as emotion tied to the faithful, I would say that those who do not believe are very emotional about their beliefs as well

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             marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I agree that most are very emotional about their belief, whether believer or non believer. I think emotion can be separated from belief when the belief isn't absolute.

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       cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       yes.
       
       it's offensive because it implies that the dead kid's family didn't pray hard enough, or he wasn't a christian or whatever reason, they don't have the inside track to God that believers have. i knew this one lady who got caught driving in the rain and stuck in traffic and had a panic attack but somehow God managed to magically clear a path for her by the railroad track and voila! she was out of the traffic jam and into her husband's waiting arms half an hour later, weeping and thanking God.
       
       
       
       i am going to write a hub about BabyP. i have to. my heart bleeds every time i hear a baby cry now and i will interrupt my chiristmas hubs because i am getting emotional just writing this. p.s. Holly, you're good people. you have a good heart i can see that.

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    h.a.borcichposted 15 years ago

    Sorry, Mark. I was not telling you your belief is right or wrong. I am fine with whatever you chose for yourself. I was trying to understand, sorry that was a problem.
    
      I can walk away knowing I really tried to understand what happened. It has nothing to do with your beliefs or mine, or any one trying to change someone.
    
      Take care, Holly

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       OK - you walk away with that. Sorry I could not explain myself better.

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    h.a.borcichposted 15 years ago

    Lol Marine, the emotions are not limited to religions:)

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Did I say they were?

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    If there is life after death as we know it; how important is death as we know it?
    Only a step through a door way.

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       Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       It is at that, I believe it is the fear of the unknown as opposed to the unbelieved.

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          Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             That is the key... the unknown. ...  I don't know what is goina happen in a few minutes.    I have a pretty good guess but  I don't KNOW.  MAYBE THAT IS THE TRUE DEFINATION OF WHAT FAITH SHOULD SAY ABOUT IT IS ????

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             Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Nice analogy !

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    The bible is obsolete!
    
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/discovery

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       Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       You and those like minded are trying very hard to kill faith and prematurely declare victory over faith. But the faithful by definition cannot lose. For faith is just that, if its true it will never depart

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          earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          It needs to die. All that hate and fear... it is a myth and a very nasty one at that!

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             Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Do you not recognize the hate in your own words ? "It needs to die" Terribly offensive words

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                earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                No this is hate.
                
                  "Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge!  Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD.  "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".   (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)
                
                That is psychotic, hardly what one would expect of a sane human, let alone a god!
                Do you not see the hate and fear that the religious tomes are filled with?

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                   Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   your words are filled with hate, not mine, we can quote others all night on hateful statements, but here and now you are spreading hate

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                      earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      Cop out! The words are the words in the bible that you are supposed to live your life by as a religionist.
                      But thanks for pointing the hate out.

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    aka-djposted 15 years ago

    I haven't read every reply to the OP, but my answer is, yes. Not so much separatist, as you describe it. I'd rather say it is "exclusive", but at the same time "inclusive"!
    If you truly understand the Gospel, Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, but the whole world will not be "saved". Why?, because a choice is involved.
    If you accept the gift of salvation, you are "in". If you reject the gift, you are "out".
    It is clear that more than half of the posters in the religion forum have "opted out", (at least up to this point in time).
    No point hating or ridiculing the messenger. It's the message that you are opposing. (or accepting).
    Oh, and BTW, it is Jesus, (the message I mean).

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       earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       How can any choice be involved what about a choice for a dying child who does not even have the language! What selective nonsense this is!

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          aka-djposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          When you were a christian, what did they teach you about dying children?

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             earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             You know, I can't remember! True. I do remember although I do recall it was of great interest to me at the time.
             I hate the slight of hand that has god answering prayers for religionists but ignoring the prayers of all the worlds starving. Totally nonsensical to me now....

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          Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          LOL
          
          And they are incapable of understanding how incredibly offensive their garbage is.
          
          "Here is the message and we are right. If you choose hell - that is your problem. Don't shoot the messenger. I did not say this. I am not responsible. God said this."
          
          

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          Presigoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          children are saved, there is no doubt. And you too may yet be saved, I believe that God provides opportunity clear to the end of your life, He wants thsat not one be lost. It is a choice that is the key, the question may be asked a million times, but until you die there is hope, peace

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       cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       the New American Standard Bible says:
       "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
       
       what about millions of children who are incapable of abstract thought? what happens to them? i would like to see a scripture and verse that explains that, if you have it.
       
       p.s. is "Him" God, or Jesus?
       
       thanks!

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          rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I think if you read Mt 18:2-5 you will see where children are a special case for Christ.  Read into what you will I think it has some reference to the question you have asked.

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    People have been trying to understand LIFE and all of it's mysteries for centuries with no avail.
       People complain that religion is a separatist institution.
      Well I guess that it is. Nature in all of its glory is separatist from top to bottom. I enjoy myself when hanging out with like minded folks. Mountain lions are beautiful animals yet they should be expelled from the pasture. The mountain lion can find it's peace in the mountains.
       The goats will be separated from the sheep, SO ???
       When I tend my garden I separate the weeds from the tomatoes.
    I'm not hating the weeds. This is just the way that it must be.
       There is a place for everyone to find their peace, if it that is what they are looking for.

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       You are comparing separating a mountain lion from a man and separating a man from a man. Do you separate mountain lions from mountain lions? Do you think we should still be separated by races? Might as well right?
       
       If everyone were separated by beliefs, you think people would learn anything from one another?

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          cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          someone validated that religion is separatist. that is true. man caused the separation when he created religious institutions. divine beings, nature and everything else are One, and have no such divisions. church shouldn't be an exclusive club. it should be the house of God with a big 'EVERYONE WELCOME' sign out front. that's what i think anyway.

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             h.a.borcichposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               For me the purpose of a church is for fellowship and learning, acountability in our lives. A safe haven for those in need. Mostly I see it used as something much different.
             
               My belief is my own - not just a overlay of an insitution covering up my mind. My son's belief is his own and much different than mine. Every one should chose their own beliefs and live them out truthfully.
             
               The church I support and attend is very open. The focus is about encouraging all on their spiritual journey. All are welcomed. We have 3,000 a week attendance in a city of 35,000. The focus is on feeding people, helping those in need and love.
             
               Anyway, I tried to offer my thoughts to Marine's questions too I guess. Only my opinion and sent with good intentions. Holly

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                marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                So, if I came into your church and debated the preachers and all the believers saying Jesus is a lie, I would be loved and accepted with open arms?

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                   h.a.borcichposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Very interesting thought I admit! If you walked into one of the services and interupted shouting Jesus is a lie - I doubt it would be tolerated. However, if you needed to debate this with pastors in the church-I have no doubt they would do so privately, and not denigrate you. I also firmly believe that no matter the outcome of the conversation they would genuinely wish you well and ask how else they could help you. And do what they could just as for anyone.
                   
                     Why would you think you could walk into any group of people, insult them on purpose and think you are right? Would you go to a clinic yelling modern medicine is bad? Common sense Marine?
                   Holly

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    h.a.borcichposted 15 years ago

    Hi Cosette
    
      I think you are asking about the age of acountabilty - a point which a child is of age to make a choice.
    
      My belief is that Jesus accepts all the children regardless of what they spiritually know. I think those who are not of sound mind or have never been exposed to faith are also "saved". Only those who have had opportunity and ability to choose are acountable.
    
      Admittedly I am not a scripture guru but I will search for it for you. Hope I helped, and please let me know when you have the hub up you mentioned in an earlier post. Holly

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       marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       If we are a Gods creation, a logical God should be happy with all of the different individual beliefs, not expect every individual to believe the same things. This contradicts having a mind to form an individual belief.

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          rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I think that this could be the case if you are adhering to  Christian beliefs. I believe the things that lead us to God will be judged by God and no one else. If it is acceptable to God then we have nothing to worry about.  If you need a more structured form such as organized religion there is that as well. I do think that God wants us to exercise individual thought regardless if we come by organized religion or on our own.

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          h.a.borcichposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Hi Marine, I cannot comment on what God thinks or what he should or shouldn't be happy with. Sorry I can't help you there. Holly

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             marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I think he could understand logic when his creation could understand it and the biblical God has no comprehension of logic.

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    cosetteposted 15 years ago

    thanks! i just always wondered which verses talked about children, specifically. when i attended Catechism, there were pictures of Jesus on the wall with children at his feet, and he had a shepherd's hook, and he was referred to as The Good Shepherd. it's funny, i was always really afraid of God, but Jesus was real to me and i always felt he would be kind to me if he knew me and wouldn't laugh at me for being poor, etc.
    
    i loved him. and i can't stand to see "Buddy Christ" and stuff like that. i guess i still do love Jesus. that stuff never leaves you, deep down. anyway, that hub is there (sorry i hate to seem self-promoting - i would never do that but since you asked i don't want to be rude. thank you Holly.

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    You are comparing separating a mountain lion from a man and separating a man from a man. Do you separate mountain lions from mountain lions? Do you think we should still be separated by races? Might as well right?
    
    If everyone were separated by beliefs, you think people would learn anything from one another?
    
    
      Jerami said...  I'm just saying that if we do not agree with each other but can communicate this is a good thing. Communicating is when both parties are stating their feelings or beliefs and both are hearing what each side is saying.    But when we can not be compatible we might not need to hang out together. If we want to call this separatism. 
      I guess that we can call it that.

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    I am quoting what I remember. I'm referring to your quote But if you look in Mt 9:13b Christ states that "For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners"
    
    He later contradicts himself by preaching that believers are favored over non believers. Just because he calls the sinners doesn't mean he likes them, it means he wanted to preach to them. He still preaches that only those that believe in him can get into heaven.
    
       Jerami...  Yes Jesus did came to call sinners, All of us are sinners in some way.
      If they (us)receive his message and believe; then they (we)join other believers in sharing in his favor.

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