How did you decide upon and verify your own beliefs?

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   JMcFarlandposted 9 years ago

   How did you decide upon and verify your own beliefs?
   
   As an atheist who constantly strives to learn and grow in a culture that is largely religious, I'm constantly engaging with theists of many types.  Often, they provide philosophical arguments for the existence of God, but I've never met one who was convinced and converted due to these philosophical "proofs".  For believers out there, how did you choose which religion you ultimately became a part of?  What convinced you that it was true?  How did you research it, and have you examined others?  While I may engage with answers, I'm not looking for an argument as much as a discussion of ideas.

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   SirDentposted 9 years ago

   I was not raised believing in anything.  I will not say I used to be an atheist but I used to not believe in anything.  Most likely I would have been called an agnostic. 
   
   When I was younger, I used to believe all gods were the same God.  Allah, Jehovah, Buddha, Vishnu, etc. . .   I read the Bible also during those times. 
   
   What got me to believe in Jesus Christ is a personal thing to me alone.   I heard His voice call out to me.  I heeded His voice and started following Him. 
   
   How did I know it was real and true?  At first I didn't really.  I kept reading the Holy Bible and it started making sense to me, much like a small child learning to move their hands and feet, to touch and feel and eventually to roll over, crawl, walk. etc. . .
   
   After 18 years of following Jesus, I know He is right and true.  There is no doubt in me about who He is and what He did for me.  No other religion or belief in the world has a Savior who died for the sins of the world.  No other belief has a God you can get close to and even touch.  This alone sets Jesus apart from all the others.
   
   Keep in mind, I can only witness to what I know.   If I have to speculate, I will say so before I reply.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for sharing,  sir.   May I ask you a few follow up questions?

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      SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You can always ask me questions.  I can't always answer but I try.  As I said, I can only witness what I know.  Speculation is another story.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      When you heard the voice of god,  how did you identify it?   In addition,  how did you decide which God it came from?   How do you explain the personal experiences that happen to people in other religions?   Do they justify belief in other gods?

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      SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      The voice of God was different.  Not the shouting voices I heard in my spirit before.  It was a voice of love and peace that calmed my soul, while yet convincing me I was lost.  All other gods are false, nothing personal about them.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      but people from all religious beliefs claim personal experience with their gods.  How are all of their experiences fake and yours is real?  That sounds like confirmation bias.  Why doesn't your god give personal experiences to everyone?

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      jmark13posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I bailed on the third paragraph.

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      SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Preconceived beliefs?  So my original answer was not read?  What I experienced was against what I believed to be true and right.  I cannot answer for why God doesn't give everyone the same experience.  Speculation says He does and is ignored.

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      Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Sd y once told me that u felt lost and so you just happened to be in front of a church and u went in.  U have called me really nasty names bcuz ???.  Many got on ur boat too.  What u have said is coming from su pastor nt ur heart. Differntly obvious

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      SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      LG, you have me confused with someone else.  What nasty names have I called you and when?

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Lying and playing innocent.  Religion teaches U that.  You told me once, "Satan Get Thee Behind Me".  That was on one of my hubs and then on my tesitmony one you continued to tell me that I was being the one with the EGO.

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I explained that to you at that time.  You didn't believe me, so what.  I can;t force you to know anything.  I said I disagreed with your testimony.  No more personal comments.  I quit.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I didn't say anything about preconceived ideas.   You said that there are no other gods except for yours,  and that is where your experiences came from.   I asked how people from every other religion have personal experiences exactly like Christians.

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Well, JM,  I must have the wrong definition for confirmation bias.  Can you give me a definition, please?

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       SD when you put those comments on HP they are no longer personal.  Words do hurt! My testimony was very personal and you told me that I had it all wrong.  I am not your denom and it came across that U R the only one that knows the truth.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       what I meant by confirmation bias had nothing to do with your conversion.  It related to you asserting that all other gods are false, which would mean that personal experiences with God by those of other religions would be false while yours are real.

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       TY, JM.  It is hard to go one god at a time so this is in general.  No other God sent someone to save mankind.  No other god is actually personal with those who follow him/her.  There is only Jesus who paid the price to redeem mankind to God.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Even if that were true,  which I don't believe it is,  that is simply an assertion,  and doesn't account for thousands of stories about personal experiences people from other religions have had with their gods.

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Religion uses that logic (?) to keep their parishioners and to keep them in the dark at all costs.  Church is a business and that it all. 1st thing they teach you is seminary is how to keep the finances and the parishioners.

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JM, Allah is not personal.  Vishnu is not personal, Brahma is not personal. Zeus is not personal. Mercury is not personal. Thor is not personal. Odin is not personal. There's no heaven for any of these except Allah.  Noone can get close to Allah.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       But that still doesn't make your claim true,  and I have talked to several Muslims,  although admittedly not many,  who emphasize a closeness and a personal connection with Allah,  and cite that as their main reason for staying in the faith.

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Ask those muslims to show it from their book.  Nothing in their book says you can get close to Allah, to my knowledge. The Holy Bible talks of closeness to God from the beginning to the end.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       If its not in the book it's not true?   There are a lot of Christian doctrines and practices that came about later too that can sort of be interpreted from the Bible,  but a lot is added to it,  so is all that untrue too

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       If it goes against the Holy Bible, yes it is untrue. I am not trying to convince you that the Holy Bible is true.  Only trying to answer questions you ask. Too may think God to be MPD when, in fact, He is only 1 and only one Word of God.

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       ppl don't always read everything i that Bible either.  They take things way out of context.  Do u have facts that prove ur claim to any other God/s?  How about the Pagans who were stolen by the Christians and the Egyptian where commands similar to ..

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Let me throw out an example in the trinity.   The doctrine of the trinity does not exist in that wording in the Bible,  and Jesus did not seek worship,  always claiming the father was god,  not him,  etc.   There is some support, not outright though.

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       How about we use the word Godhead instead of trinity.  Speaking of Jesus, Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 
       θεότης
       theotēs  Thayer Def.
       1) deity
       1a) the state of being God, Godhead  Was Jesus God accordingly?

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       That the rub,  In some parts of that Bible Jesus said that he was the son of man and in others the son of God.  Then he asks who do you think that I am.  Was he playing (mind/head) games with thsoe of his time? We are sons/daughters of God from begin

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       So you agree that trinity is not in the Bible.   The verse you quoted was not Jesus speaking,  nor was it someone that ever met Jesus.   In the gospels,  Jesus deferred to god the father in everything,  did he not? Do you pray to your equals?

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       The word trinity is not in the Bible but Jesus was fully God while being fully man at the same time.  Those who met Jesus as a man thought of Him as man alone.  They glorified Jesus as a man but Jesus corrected them saying God deserves the glory.

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       God, the kingdom of God and all the things in his kingdom and that includes you and Jesus and Satan are Within you, not outside of you.  We are all equal even Jesus and God.  The master is not above the slave and vice versa. Nobody is better.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I understand that's the christian belief now,  but it wasn't always.   Christology evolved over several hundred years,  and low christology was originally prevalent and had scriptural support as well.   What is popular now may not equate to truth.

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Never heard of low christology before.  Can you elaborate?  Will you agree that truth is truth no matter who does or does not believe it?  I will be gone for a short time, so you can take your time if you need to.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Christology is the theological field of who Christ was.   Low christology,  believed by the early church believed Jesus was a man who was adopted by god at the moment of his baptism.  Truth is truth Yes,  but if it can't be demonstrated to be true...

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       A Low Christology focuses more on the humanity of Our Lord, while in no way excluding his divinity. http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessag … amp;recnu=
       
       According to the link, low does not negate high christology.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       There's a lot more to low christology than can be fit in this Lele box.   It doesn't rule out his divinity,  no,  but it also does not posit that he is divine,  at least in its original forms believed by the early church.

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       That link is to a Catholic site.  They are to keep us in the dark at all costs.  I have an opn mnd about Christianity and other belief systems.  We r all here on this planet. We soon better stop the Holier Than Thou system cuz it isnt doing us good

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JM, both studies must be taken into account to come to a conclusion.  To know Jesus is different than just knowing about Him.  many speak and sing about Him but do not know Him on a personal level.  I hate these little boxes too.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I understand.   Church leadership determined that he was fully human and fully divine and part of a separate but equal trinity so that's what you believe,  but that doesn't make it true or factual in light of early beliefs and practices.

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       SD, who told you that and why would you believe them over what Jesus states in that Bible? You better read it again and without interpretation from a church that is similar to a cult.

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Mat 16:16  And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       But that was written sometime between 70-100 ad by someone who doesn't even claim to be an eyewitness,  and Jesus changes drastically from mark (earliest) to John (latest) this is due to different christology.

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Prophesied before His birth.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       it seems like you're reaching now.   I don't accept prophecy as evidence because almost none of it meets the criteria that would actually make it a prophecy.   Islam had prophecies that are more specific,  do you believe they prove Allah?

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       SD Jesus never claimed that he was the prince of peace.  That would be church teacnings. Why would the state that when it is not in the Bible at all?  Manipulation for what?

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Isaiah 9:6
       For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.  (Jesus)
       JM - what are criteria for prophecy?

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Jesus said: Luke 12: 51-53.  Who got that prophesy wrong?

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Jesus only meant that people would come to disagree over Him; that families would divide into believers vs. non believers.  He is the POP because he will bring peace to new earth!

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Star,  they are too in depth to mention here,  but I am writing a hub on it.   It's Jesus called the Prince of peace because of isaiah? If so,  it's self fulfilling.   He never called himself that - or any of the others

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Joh 14:7  If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I don't know how we devolved to posting verses with no discussion.  By the time John was written,  christology had evolved.   That's why the Jesus in John says things that the Jesus in mark never would.

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JM, limited space, christology brought up by you.  Verses showing Jesus is God.  It is what it is.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       But verses don't mean Jesus was god.   They evolved over time,  with christology,  from the first gospel mark through the lady John.   Many early Christians did not view Jesus as god, it evolved.   That is historical fact.

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Peter said to Jesus, You are the Christ, the son of the Living God."  Mat_16:16  and in John Joh_6:69.  In Mark 8:29 Peter said, "You are the Christ." Greek-Christos Messiah.  OT says God alone saves. God alone forgives sins.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Do you not see it as even possible that the writers of the gospels understood evolving and changing theological positions in the first hundred years after Christ and wrote in accordance with them?

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I used to think things like that. All 4 gospels mention the temple being destroyed and Jesus building it back in 3 days, speaking of His body. Jesus brought Himself back from death. Notice, He did it Himself, not the Father.

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       SD have you read the hub about King David by Celeste here.  Very enlightening about the Magic and Psychic abilites of that person and how Jesus would have acquired them through generation.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       All four gospels mention the temple being destroyed because they were written after it was destroyed and fit that into their narratives as "prophecy".  It's really easy to write a prophecy about an event after it's happened.

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JM, Jesus was speaking of His own body. It was torn down and dead but He (Jesus) raised it up again.  John 2:21  But he spake of the temple of his body.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Sure,  that's the interpretation and your belief.   That doesn't make it fact,  just because that's how it's interpreted.   There is no evidence of the resurrection aside from 5th hand biblical accounts,  and there's no reason to believe them.

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I agree with Julie on this one.  If you read my answer you will understand why.  Jesus has no birth or death records.  Some things just dont add up and I started questioning them too.  U still dont believe that evrythng is WITHIN U even though U quot

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       OK.  I quoted directly from the Holy Bible.  The same one used in the first century Church and beyond.  Jesus' own words.  I am done here for now and going to un-follow.

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       The first thing when changes come is denial, then anger and sometimes you can go back and forth with them.  Run Virgil, Run! When you have nowehre else to go, go home within you.  The answers you seek ore there, not church or other men. U must Love U

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       There was no Holy Bible in the first century,  Dent.  It wasn't collected and canonized until the second or third centuries.   In addition,  it's just what people say are Jesus words,  by people who never actually met him.

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I quote from that Bible too and am told that I do not use scripture.  I stopped doing that because there are all kinds of interpretations. 4 that I am told that I dont know anything. He will not read my stuff. I dont know why. I do not convert.

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Lady G, can I ask you a simple question:  What does being a minister mean to you?  Do you have a ministry?

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Star you need to ask that on my nswer to Julie's question, not on SirDent's answer.  Read my answer in full first though.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Star,  your question has nothing to do with the subject being discussed in my question.

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you Julie, she is goading me.  She has asked many questions on HP to get me to bite and I won't.  All she wants to do is argue and fight.  I am done with all that.

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Sorry J, I was just curious about the "I do not convert" statement.  I wondered how one could call oneself a minister but have no ministry?  Or is it just a thing on paper?  No desire for a fight. Just need clarification.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       You and I then have very different ideas of what a ministry is.   It's purpose is to Minister to the needs of its followers.   Evangelism is conversion,  not a ministry.   How do you Minister to someone by telling them how wrong they are?

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Some roles of the minister include establishing new churches and encouraging others to come to God.  Is that happening here if one tells others that God is within us, we are gods, and that there should be no churches?

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JM, you see, she only wants to start a fight.  Her description of what a Minister does and is is far from what Jesus's description is.  I am NOT going to FIGHT WITH HER i HAVE NO IDEA WHY SHE CHOSE ME TO PICK A FIGHT WITH.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       The roles of a minister according to whom?   You?

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       According to Wikipedia.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Wikipedia is an authoritative,  biblically supported source now?   Sheesh, I learn something new every day.

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JM, I wrote this a couple of years ago and it explains what a Minister does:  http://thedivinedispatch.blogspot.com/2 … ister.html

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   speer138posted 9 years ago

   i used to be agnostic. i only say that because i cant think of another term for just not giving a crap. i thought if he exists , then he exists. if not , then he doesnt. whatever. oddly enough i starting dating a mormon gal. i started going to her church with her, just so i can spend sundays with her, and have some of her mom's awesome cooking. her parents asked some mormon missionaries to bring me book of mormon and talk to me a little. it was cool , i didnt mind the conversation. i kept the book of mormon and about a year later, i started  noticing 111 everyday several times a day (twice on my watch, lol) in some way or fashion. it was weird how it seem to follow me. everywhere i went. it was even kind of driving me crazy, almost like that movie with jim carey. i think its called 23. something told me to check out the book or mormon. so i did, and in the first book, chapter 1 verse 11, it says almost word for word (i dont remember exactly though) read the bible. i took that as read the christian bible. of course i didnt know crap at that time about different version or any of that. but i started reading anyway on and off, not really sure what to make of it. that was kind of the starting point. it wasnt until many years later though, after several other people and Christians ending up in my life, and steering me the right direction that i decided to trust Jesus. none of the people i met or hung out with was planned. not that all people plan their friends, but i never looked for a certain crowd or cared much about peoples differences. especially once i joined the navy. its just whoever is cool.
   
   anyway, if you are interested in hearing about someone chooseing their religion based on evidence i would look up greg koukl, j warner wallace, and im sure you already know lee strobel.

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   jmark13posted 9 years ago

   Julie. When you read a work of philosophy, it's only a matter of time before another work outdoes it. That applies to most as opposed to the few who remain steadfast to one piece of work or at the most, a few. Consider the position that theology takes as a philosophy. When compared to real philosophy, there are no proofs within it. It's all fantastical and otherworldy so any discussion of it will involve a lot of half-assed ideas; I say you should just bury the lead here.

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   Hannah David Ciniposted 9 years ago

   I was born into a Christian family so for the first few years the choice was made for me but the older I got the more I questioned. Although I can never proof it to be real, my faith makes sense to me and has stood up to my questions.  I think I'd something is true it will stand if shaken and it's our duty not to blindly follow but to think and reason.
   I think a lot is personal experience as well, seeing answers to prayer, feeling unnatural peace through bad times- I know there could be other explanations for all of these but when I see them in light of what already makes sense to me, it seems to make sense that they are God related.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      What I hear you saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you already believed, and used that belief to draw conclusions from experiences that you have.  Is that correct?

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      Hannah David Ciniposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Kind of, it's hard to approach anything from a completely neutral perspective & I'm sure that my childhood belief had a large influence.  I would say more that my experiences strengthened my beliefs but I guess it always works both ways.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      How did you determine where your experiences came from,  or did it just naturally follow that they must have come from the belief system you already had?

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      Hannah David Ciniposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think that they came from my belief system but through living I discovered more about the world & myself so my beliefs were strengthened.   My knowledge is limited; I can only go on what I understand but I guess that's all anyone has.

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   Maranda Maeposted 9 years ago

   I was born into a family of Christian Baptists, and I still am a Baptist at heart, however I don't go to church, and rarely did as a child. Baptist church, and the people at the church, don't shove their beliefs down other peoples throats, and I really like that. We have always had the same pastor who is so kind hearted and simply accepts everyone who steps foot in the church.
   
   For me, there's never been a miraculous siting, no near death experience, and God himself (or Jesus) has never spoken to me personally. The true reason I believe in a God, is because I feel in this cold world, you have to have a little faith and believe in something. When I was a teenager, I almost converted to science (haha), but then as I've grown up a little bit, have lost some people I love, and I just couldn't fathom the idea of Scientology anymore.
   
   There has to be something more after we die, and with science, there isn't and that just sucks. I don't want to live a life knowing that when I die I simply get stuck in the dirt. So, I'm still a Christian. And even if science has it 100% correct, I don't care, and I really don't think anyone should. It's a lot happier (I am anyway) to believe.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      It seems like you're saying that you don't care whether or not your beliefs are true because they're comforting to you, and you want to believe them.  Is that correct?

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      Maranda Maeposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Pretty much...now I do believe there is a God, I just have this outlook where even though I believe this, there are many other religions, I don't think they all can be correct...so some body may be wrong in the end. If it's me, I won't mind bc I have

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   bradmasterOCcalposted 9 years ago

   Julie
   We are born into our parents belief, and as we learn more, and use our brains we first question our knowledge, and then we explore other viewpoints.
   
   Then as we use our intelligence we see things in a different light. It is at this point that we may or may not discard the beliefs of our parents. This doesn't happen to the majority of people in this country, based on the fact that many people carry on the birth religion, and the political party.
   
   Generation after generation continue their heritage, and pass it on to their children. Unlike growing up and understanding that Santa Clause was just a childhood fantasy, people don't apply that same level of discovery about their religion and their political party preference.
   
   I started out that way, but as I grew up, I had questions about everything that I had been given by my parents, relatives, friends, and teachers. I went to a Catholic School, and didn't think about the religious teaching, it was part of the social life, and it just was the thing to do.
   
   I believed and felt comforted about the entire ritual. I didn't question it until I was an adult. As for political parties, I didn't really think about politics or political parties.
   
   My departure from the set stage of my religious and political upbringing was a slow but steady one, until it finally didn't resemble a connection with God, or political party.
   
   Although, my parent never really indoctrinated me about politics.
   
   I grew up on the lower east side of NYC, and we moved to the suburbs. I then went to public school, and one of my history teachers taught us to not vote Row A or Row B and vote for the best person. A lesson that appears to be lost today, as the voters are loyal to one party, or the other.
   
   I would go back to where I grew up in NYC, and wonder why people still live like that in these neighborhoods. Why didn't they leave as did my parents?
   
   I believe that the majority of the people want to go with the flow, and they don't want to espouse contrary or unpopular positions. They must believe that there is emotional safety following the pack.
   
   I don't want to have my view be the back end of someone in the pack, I want to be able to see the road, and know where I am going.

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8. 66

   Lady Guinevereposted 9 years ago

   My mom went to many different kinds of religious oerdes from Holy Rollers to Methodist and finally Welsh Baptist who, my father's family were all of.  I was brought up Welsh Baptist, converted to Methodist when I married my first husband.  I then went through the Roman Catholic Initiation of Adults when I met this husband that I have been married to since 1997  When I went through the RCIA, I didn't see much difference in the belifs as the ones that I had before.  They all used the Bible and had the same doxology and other chants, prayers and such.  I never felt that I was "lost"  It wasn't until my first encounter with some people of the Catholic religion (they claim as a "FAITH")  that things started to be unsettling for me.  I had read the Bible many times...all by myself without an interpreter, that stemmed from a really horrible life experience in my 30's.  Not all answers are in the there book and no man was telling me the truth, only their truth.  It was at another bad time in myh life that I had an experience that changed my mind completely.  After accepting and was fully converted to the Roman Catholic Church, things in that Bible started to be like missing parts of the sentence or thoughts that the author's wrote down for the people and times that they were in.  My beleifs seems to have this cloud arund them or be in a fog.  Remember at no time did I think that I was lost.  I knew who and what Jesus was and trusted him.  I did not trust religion so I began my journey into other books and the history of the various churches and the times that the letters and the stories that the Bible doesn't tell you about or tells you NOT to read because they are of the devil or Satan.  I read them first!  When I read that the people should be kept in the dark at all costs, well I stopped attending the chruch or any church for that matter.  They don't hold the same ideals that the Jesus does in the Bible.  I realized then that everything comes from you and not the other way around.  I learned about how KARMA works and Past-Life Expereince feed into our everyday lives, but the most important thing that I learned was that I AM a God.  I am the one that makes things happen with my words and thoughts and I am now more careful of them.  Being God doesn't mean being EGO.  Big differnce others can't understand by being in a religion or church.

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9. 61

   adagio4639posted 9 years ago

   Well Julie...I'm an atheist as well. I personally dumped all beliefs that I might have entertained. I reasoned that truth was more important than some belief, and since none of these beliefs could demonstrate the truth that would justify them as something worthy of my involvement, I concluded that having no beliefs was better than having to maintain the baggage of the dogma that goes along with some belief system. I'm a fallibalist. I know that I could be wrong about all sorts of things. I'm fallible. So is everyone else. All religions are man made. That makes them all fallible as well. How can an infallible system come from a fallible source? The last thing I want to hear from somebody when a tragedy happens, is that it's God's will. What a cop-out that is. The most ridiculous things I see are when a guy hits a homerun and points to the sky. Thank you Jesus! Like Jesus loves baseball and plays favorites.So much crap is done in the name of religion, and most of it involves Hate. Whether it's a justification for slavery, or torture, or beheadings or mass murder or genocide, it's all an example of an ideology run amok, and all religions are ideology's.
   
   I don't have to be right all the time about anything. I just don't want to be wrong all the time about everything, and that won't happen as long as I continue to question every assumption or belief.

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10. 78

    arksysposted 9 years ago

    Born in a Muslim family it took me a long time to start questioning the faith... many of the questions i had were unanswered and most of the answers i received did not go down too well... I followed the major rules and kept it going until about the age of 25... After a number of questions built up in my mind and after talking to non-muslims about Islam, i realized that i don't really know much about Islam. After reading a little about it i also realized that the concepts we had were not entirely correct and the examples we were given all had different meanings.
    I think that was about 10 years ago now when i realized how much rubbish we had been taught and i started making an effort to re-learn everything. Now, if anyone tells me anything i have not read about Islam i ask them to provide sources of the information where i can find that info. I have also taught my teenage nephews and nieces to do the same. when the older members of the family use religion to make them do something they consult me and ask how to get out of it. i guide them to the best of my ability.
    The spreading of false knowledge was quite a setback for me... i see so many people praying 5 times a day yet indulge in wrong doings at the same time... i was at a point where i did not want to associate myself with these "people"... and for that i would have to either leave islam or make them leave islam. 
    But how could i leave islam? I had a connection with Allah, and that was a greater connection than i had with the people.
    verifying things was and is rather difficult. however, there are many instances such as sleep paralysis which used to happen to me quite often. I read a prayer and i'm free half way... i don't do anything and i'm stuck there for a longer time. I try to fight it and notice how the force causing the sleep paralysis weakens as i continue with my prayer and strengthens as soon as i stop. I've had the opportunity to play around and i've used it to verify things my own way and made it go away completely.
    other things are common with other faiths or people who don't follow religion such as visions in mid-day ... seeing exorcism first hand.etc.
    A good one is where i gave a prayer to a hindu friend who read one of my hubs and tried to listen to the prayer i sent to her. I even got a positive response from a person who did not believe in the same faith. These are the kind of things that verify it all for me, and i'm glad i did not walk away because of the people.

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11. 79

    Say Yes To Lifeposted 9 years ago

    I grew up a Seventh Day Adventist Christian.  We were taught that not only is Christianity the only true religion, but SDAs were the one true denomination of Christianity.  Everyone else was bound for hell, though God might allow some exceptions for people who never had a real opportunity to know “The Truth”.
    This belief was first challenged by the fact that I grew up in sin-riddled Oakland, CA, in a family that takes dysfunction to a new level.  I was rescued in some ways, like being able to attend a Christian high school, but I still had to deal with family mess and walk crime-infested streets.  I got tired of dealing with a bunch of stupid restrictions that weren’t preparing me for the terrifying chasm that was The Future, so I rebelled.  After falling into the Chasm, I returned, looking for guidance from the Christian church.  Very little was forthcoming.  Then I inadvertently joined a cult, putting my life in danger.  (I wrote about it in the hub, “My Experience in a Cult”).
    I never really recovered from the cult, or the events that happened afterwards.  A couple years ago, I began experiencing flashbacks.  Two things I learned from being in the cult are 1) there is no Cosmic Santa Claus (gasp!  That’s blasphemy!), and as a result, 2) there is more than one way to think.  It is the latter point that led me to explore other religions.  That’s why I wrote 4 hubs describing the world’s 10 most practiced ones (titled, “What Takes More Courage Than Rebellion?  Considering Another Point of View”).
    It occurred to me that, as awful as my flashbacks are, they’re nothing compared to what a Holocaust survivor must endure.  I’ve read a few books by Elie Wiesel.  Currently, my favorite one is “The Gates of the Forest”.  I especially like the way it ends, when the protagonist tries to pick a fight with an American Rabbi.
    Currently, I consider myself an agnostic Omnist.  I believe all religions are ancient science, their information gathered by trial and error of various cultures.  All attempt to explain how the world works, and how to best live in it.  Just because they differ in certain areas doesn’t make them less true.
    All religions are true, and all are cults.  The difference is in how they’re practiced.

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