I hesitate when I hear of see someone quote the Bible as their argument. I thoug

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48
Ericdierkerposted 8 years ago
I hesitate when I hear of see someone quote the Bible as their argument. I thought Jesus denied that

If I lord the scripture over you, is that not exactly as the pharisees, scribes and Sadducee did, which resulted in the crucifixion? If I love you without the scripture telling me to, is that not more pure?
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KingdomComeposted 8 years ago
Eric- I'm not quite clear if I understand your question, but quoting scripture ( in the correct context) is often how we learn and confirm teachings. It is also a means of correction when we see err in what is been taught. When you think about it, even Jesus quoted scripture.

It's possible I'm misunderstanding at the point where you state, " If I lord scripture over you". If so my comment might not make sense.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  King: Amen! I didn't understand "If I lord scripture over U" either! "Lording Scripture" over 1 is what Scripture says we should do (II Tim 3:16) & why he's so "far" fm WORD!
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  KingdomCome,
  Thanks, your comment makes more sense than my question. I like how you word your position and think it makes a lot of sense.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: HS told me to tell u: I Jn 2:15-17 (v16) "For all that is n the world, the lust of the flesh, & the lust of the eyes, and THE PRIDE OF LIFE, is not of the Father, but is of the world."
  Read vs 15-17!
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Well Norine, if you are having direct conversations with God then you don't need the Bible do you?
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: Stop "playing!" The WORD is GOD & I don't need GOD (aka JESUS/Holy Spirit)?
  Being facetious underminds GOD=BLASPHEMY!
  Funny? U think?
  GOD will remember!
  U should "STUDY" (II Tim 2:15) as those n Acts 17:11 rather than remaining "complacen
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, I think you got me. I do think you are funny. Funny is good it makes us laugh and be happy. The biggest problem is with your citations. I checked 20 of yours and they do not say what you say they say.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I'm sorry if u use a "version" not according to revelation fm HS! U should have "WAITED" (Acts 1:4)! Say that's not there!
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lawrence01posted 8 years ago
Eric
It's a very good question, and I think I know where you're coming from. It's hard to get a balance on this one as we often want people to get an idea of 'where we're coming from' and that should mean pointing them to a part of the scripture that deals with it, but there are times when it literally feels as if in disagreeing with someone (For example are we 'pre-destined' or do we have freedom of choice) that we get beaten over the head with the Bible as both sides see how many verses they can quote for their view, and both accuse the other of 'not knowing the scripture' with their answer.
I nkow I do quote the Bible in some of my responses and I try to do it just to show where I'm coming from, but I realize that it's not always the way it's received! I try to make it as inoffensive as possible, but I can't control how the other person reads what I write!
Personally I'm starting to 'go away from commenting in the questions as you only get 250 characters and I've gotten into all kinds of knots over them (and probably offended some).
I'd agree with 'Kingdomcome's' comment below that put in the right context a scripture verse can add a lot, the issue somes with how to interpret 'in context' as we often think that it simply means the few verses before and after but I'd argue that many of the verses can have both cultural and historical contexts as well.
I do thnik that we should always be careful hiw we use the scripture, and should realize that the other person may not see things the same way, but we shouldn't change the way we think about this, just learn to be more careful.
What I struggle with is those (and I hope I'm not one of them) who use the scripture as a weapon to beat others about the head and are totally intolerant of other possible ways of interpreting it.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Law: We have "freedom of choice" (Josh 24:15), but GOD KNEW how we'd choose fm beginning (predestined)! Making WORD "inoffensive" is against WORD! Heb 4:12 says IT (WORD) "cuts" which feels very offensive! HS is always "in context!" Remainder: Above
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Lawrence thank you for that thoughtful answer. Wouldn't it be cool if we had all the answers now, so we could stop learning? No it wouldn't. Every day I like to learn something new and learn something old and change my mind. Happy New Year!
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: We will NEVER "have all the answers now," (I Cor 13:12), but the wonderful thg about It, we have a HELPER (HS) & if we "ask" (Jm 1:5), He will give answer!
  Today, U have "learned something new..." I like ur open mind re: WORD!
  STUDY!
  U2!
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  Paul K Francisposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Lawrence, I see the distinction of using scripture as to show where one is coming from and using it as argument. I avoid arguments because I realize that we may all have different ideas and attitudes about these things. Happy New year.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  PF: U r against Scripture the only thg that is TRUTH by saying "I realize that we may all have different ideas and attitudes about these things!" "True Worshipers" should be one ONE ACCORD! Did Paul not "withstand" (argue w/) Peter (Gal 2)?
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  ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine: I forgot to make my "good-bye" a little funny. You said how you "may be a religious fanatic, but you have Scriptures to back you up". Now, it's like an alcoholic saying: "I may be an alcoholic", but I have my wine to back me up". Bye now.
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  Aliswellposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Val, please quote to Nor the verse of "Old Fellas 1:3---for those of ye that fail to take ye life as but a journey of self discovery, and not one of mind controlled experience---wake up and Smell the Roses, before it's too Late!!!"
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  ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Allen, you are like a breeze of fresh air in this highly unhealthy atmosphere. As always, it's a pleasure to hear from you.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Vlad: No! He displays ways of drunkenness to back him up v I display benefits fm the Holy Spirit (WORD) to back me up! Consider "the effects!" Stay! U might learn something!
  Ali: I see u guys r on "ONE ACCORD" w/SATAN!
  BELIEVERS: Why can't we be?
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  ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine: Thank you for the offer, but there is nothing that someone like you could possibly teach someone like me, because I have no plans to go nuts. With thousand non-fiction books, and decades of meditation, I would be an idiot to consider it.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Val: U'd be a "fool" not to consider it! Eternity in (the lake of fire) hell is a looooooooong time!
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Norine Williamsposted 8 years ago
WOW! How "far" you are away from WORD and not according to Scripture! Numbers 23:19 says "GOD (WORD) is not man that He should LIE;" therefore, our opinions don't matter, but GOD'S, and is why when responding to questions concerning Bible, only Scripture should be given!

II Timothy 3:16 says "ALL" Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." Deut 19:15; Matt 18:16 and II Cor 13:1 says {paraphrasing} "Where there are two or three witnesses, the WORD is established." II Cor 13:3 "Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me..." I Peter 3:15 says "... be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason for the hope that is in you, with "meekness and fear." Therefore, NOT GIVING SCRIPTURE when asked a question pertaining to God's Word, defies
Scripture!

Kingdom Come: The question "doesn't make sense," for it defies Scripture! Jesus did give Scripture when responding (He loved to quote my favorite - The Prophet - Isaiah)!
Law: "...but we shouldn't change the way we think about this, just learn to be more careful." How, then, can we "change from glory to glory" (II Cor 3:18) if we shouldn't "change the way we think about this..?" Remain complacent? Not His desire but we should "change" (grow) into His likeness! Hebrews 6:1-3 says proving our doctrine with WORD is what one should do. It says {in part} "Therefore, leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ (must establish that FIRST), let us go on into PERFECTION, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works (law), an of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms (water & Spirit), and of laying on of hands (miracles), and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment." Therefore, we MUST resolve these FIRST, with SCRIPTURE!

"What I struggle with is those (and I hope I'm not one of them) who use the scripture as a weapon to beat others about the head and are totally intolerant of other possible ways of interpreting it." Why would there be "other possible ways of interpreting It" if Holy Spirit has "revealed" vs one's "interpretation?"

Holy Spirit would NOT tell me one thing and someone else something different. Therefore, WORD continues to "reveal" those with "interpretation" vs "revelation!"
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  lawrence01posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine
  You actually just demonstrated the point! Do you read Hebrew and Greek fluently? If you don't then how do you know your 'revelation' is in line what the Holy Spirit has previously said?
  Because clearly your last comment is happening!!
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Law: R u serious? Did not HS (aka Jesus) say He would "lead & guide us into ALL truth?" Remember: BELIEVE & HAVE FAITH TO PRODUCE ACTION FM HS!
  U thk HS needs Hebrew & Greek or R U bragging that U know?
  Hmmm! "Boasting?"
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  lawrence01posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine
  Jesus said "another comforter" not himself coming back! He doesn't need Greek and Hebrew WE DO! to prevent us getting it wrong and insulting other believers!
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Law: "..whom the Father will send "IN MY NAME.." (Jn14:26; n red) & "...I will send.." (Jn 16:7; n red) If sent in HIS NAME, who is He?
  Jesus sent n 16:7 & Father sent n 14:26=Jesus is God!
  Need HS "revelation" for TRUTH not Hebrew & Gr
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  lawrence01posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  So it's someone but not Jesus or the Father? That much is clear from the text! Yet co-equal with them!
  This is why claiming 'revelation' is dangerous!
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Law: U NEED Jesus (aka HS)!
  There is 1 SPIRIT (Eph 4:4-6) who operates in ANY Glory and/or MANY Glories;simultaneously, if He desires!
  Therefore, HS'S Name is Jesus (Jn 14:26) who was sent fm THE 1 SPIRIT as PROMISED, as was Jesus (I Tim 3:16)!
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, I must admit I find you extremely fascinating. When you use the term WORD you capitalize it all. Does that mean you are shouting it, like that is generally used? And could you give me a definition of WORD as you use it?
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: I respect WORD which is GOD! If u knew the POWER of ALMIGHTY "I AM" u would not speak His Name (JESUS) w/o caps nor any of His "Glories!" But we have lost respect for what He is (GOD), but JESUS is who He is (Phil 2:9-11)!
  WE HAVE FORGOTTEN!
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Then to be consistent you should capitalize "he" and His" entirely. And you should not abbreviate (aka). Does disagreeing with you mean automatically that you cannot be wrong? Are you infallible in interpreting your revelations?
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: Did I not say "WE" have forgotten? As I tell other unbelievers, I have "proof" but in order to find out if I'm telling TRUTH, BELIEVE "rightly divided" WORD, exercise FAITH to MAX, for He's available to "ALL" & His desire is "NONE IS LOST!"
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  Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, Mt 5:22 and whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Ge·henʹna.
  Norine you must not have read this
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  k&t: Did U read it? "...WITHOUT A CAUSE...?"
  When against WORD there's plenty of "CAUSE!"
  "...shall be in danger of hell fire." God judges whether or not "in danger of," not u!
  He looks @ the heart, not as u!
  U continue as Scribes & Pharise
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Paul K Francisposted 8 years ago
Hi Eric. I think the important thing is not to be bound by scripture. I think that is what 'lording scripture over you' means. Where it all comes from is more important, as is the freedom we have to use our own hearts and minds to live in loving ways. Have a great day.
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1. 48
  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Paul that speaks to my heart. Very cool indeed. Thank you much.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: Being facetious against WORD="BLASPHEMY!"
  Hilarious 2 u because u don't know the POWER of GOD (HS)! GOD (aka JESUS) has ALWAYS spoken thru ppl & Paul is no exception!
  Yes, "very cool indeed" & you're welcome for ALL I tell is TRUTH (WO
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine surely you jest in using that scripture to prove your point. The heading for that chapter is "benefits of Wisdom" and/or "Wisdom bestows well being". Perhaps you did not read the entire chapter or you are just pulling our leg.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: I give so many Scriptures, which one? Prov 3:5?
  No Matter!
  GOD'S "WORD will not return void" (Is 55:11)!
  If IT IS WRITTEN, IT IS SO!
  Do u wish to cont "leaning to YOUR OWN understanding?"
  R u trying to find justification for doing so?
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tsmogposted 8 years ago
(LOL throwing hands up in the air surrendering) Eric . . . I wish to thank you for asking. The OP has sent me on a most wonderful journey leading to many hours of thought and research seeking to answer (9 feeble attempts in a Word document). Again, thankfully, I was led back to an old study that I may address with new vigor . . . we shall see

All I can offer is rambling thoughts . . . while are IMO of course.

An argument occurs between two or more in some relationship(s) based upon a proposition(s), supposition(s), presupposition(s), or of presumption(s)

[Regarding Love: Those parties each have a Heart, Soul, (Strength), and mind . . . are a neighbor . . . consider order perhaps with scripture while arguing with scripture?]

An argument seeks to persuade

To be persuaded a belief(s) must change

A belief is formed firstly with acknowledgement and then occurs acceptance, faith, and trust

Those are variables and in relationship(s)

Beliefs may happen with the blink of an eye, the flutter of the heart, and without the passing of time succinctly

Beliefs are 'not' stagnant

Beliefs are fluid and dynamic . . . they change

Beliefs are momentous . . . they affect the future

For change to occur a force must be exercised

Authority(s) guide and exercise force

Authorities are not force

Authorities are powerful

Authorities are not power

Authorities are stewards of power

Belief perhaps with thought is Power

Or, perhaps Love is Power

Suggestion: Stop . . . Pause . . . Ponder . . .

[Insert: Study Power with the laws of science = physics. (Hopefully I will share a Hub later on that) Consider with argumentation there is both ‘a priori’ - rational, and ‘a posteriori’ experience, as well as emotion offering philosophy and psychology.]

Next, is Love . . . of purity . . . hmmm . . . I’m still pondering :-)
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Tim: I Cor 3:6 "I have planted, Apol'pos watered, BUT GOD gave the increase."
  Great advice: "Suggestion: Stop...Pause...Ponder (Acts 17:11)!
  "Beliefs are 'not' stagnant; . . they change.." (II Cor 3:18) "But we all...chg fm glory to glory.."
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Most excellent. Really good food for thought. I look forward to a hub on this. How can I have a degree in Philosophy and I still had to look up a posteriori -- I like it. A better way of saying deduction.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: With HS no need to "look up" for He "reveals!" Try Him v Philosophy!
  Tim: R no need to continue "pondering" for He will "lead & guide u into ALL truth" (Jn 14:26; 16:13)!
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine
  After the hundreds of posts you have made mentioning the Holy Spirit, it has become very apparent that you OFTEN confuse your personal thoughts as though it was the Holy Spirit. A common problem with those that believe the Oneness doctrine.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Rich: U no I never knew of Oneness doctrine prior to HP then Googled! "Revelation"=Day of Pentecost (1st CHURCH) & after; Acts 2:42 or the Gospel of Christ (Gal 1:6-9)! Gal 1:12 "Didn't get fm man.." Matt 28:20 we were told to OBSERVE apostles-rt
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You are attempting to brow beat with excessive out of context quoting of scripture, another thing you do a lot. Twisted comprehension of scripture is not the Holy Spirit teaching but your own incorrect thoughts.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Rich: "Out of context" or "Out of ur interpretation?" Matt 28:20 we were commanded to "OBSERVE apostles;" Acts 2; 1st CHURCH estab; "observation should begin; Acts 2:42! Do we?
  If not Gal 1:6-9="ACCURSED!"
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Having only 250 characters is hard enough then Your out of context lack of comprehension makes it very hard to have a conversations. You bounce from one thing to another. Pick one point and see if others agree. You might learn something.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Rich: 1 Point: Did Jesus not tell us to OBSERVE apostles (Matt 28:20)? Yes, I can read! What did apostles do AFTER Christ's ascension? Read Acts 1 & AFTER! Baptize in JESUS' Name. Do u do that? Resolve this "Point!" Do u?
  No!U might learn somethi
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  tsmogposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  There are three appeals for argument - Logical (Logos), Ethical (Ethos) & Emotional (Pathos). At question when quoting verse for argument is which of those is intent while considering which of those is conjured. Then enters a priori & a poste
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Tim: Stop being so philosophical & speak n communal terms for those of us who r "uneducated" (according to man)!
  There is no "argument" here, if one believes for GOD has spoken!
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  tsmogposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  John Wesley, the famous revivalist and theologian in 1756 delivered “An Address to the Clergy”. Among the various qualifications that Wesley thought a good minister should have, one was a basic knowledge of philosophy.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Tim: U've proven my point, again! Man would rather rely on 'his' understanding (Prov 3:5) than what the Holy Spirit said He would do "lead & guide us into ALL truth" (Jn 14:26;16:13). I BELIEVE! So, it doesn't matter what 'man' says, ONLY GOD!
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  tsmogposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine with all due respect you yourself are being philosophical with your own reasoning as argumentative discussion. After all that is what the question is about is it not. Remember you do not own my beliefs nor I yours. I seek not to change yours.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Tim: Nor I yours! You've missed the point! Although you may not understand such, if 1's a BELIEVER (n GOD) 1 must "obey" His commands & "teach all nations" (Matt 28:19). Therefore, not trying to "shove my belief down anyone's throat," but obey!
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, know that I do not hate you. I gave up hating about 20 years ago. It is fruitless.
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  N; Matthew 28:20 does not say obey the apostles. Matt 28:20 comes right after 28:19 where its says to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, yet you don't like that verse do you?
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: GOD'S def of "hate" is not man's def. If I BELIEVE, & u don't, u "hate" me! U've proven that trying to "get rid of me" or proving wrong or "out of context," rather than considering the dispensation n which we NOW Live-NC! Jn 15:23!
  Rich: No
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Wow Norine -- that quote says: "Whoever hates me hates my Father as well." Are you considering yourself as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ? Take it easy. I love you, you are worthy of my respect. I do not hate you.
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Joh 15:23 "Whoever hates Me also hates My Father. The scripture is in reference to Jesus not us. I would hope none are claiming to be Jesus. It would seem some believe in a different Jesus but that is another story.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric/Rich: Scripture says ONE SPIRIT (Eph 4:4-6; I Cor Chapter 12) & either 1 is in or out & can perceive whatever!
  Where do u guys stand?
  Hypocrites?
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  What is your point Norine? You quote scripture, we read it, it doesn't imply what you want it to, you quote more scripture. You are the perfect example that His words are not yet to be written where He said He would write them.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine get your discourse under control. Calling someone a hypocrite is unacceptable. Doing it with a question mark changes nothing. Do not make yourself a fool..
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: Why try to use Scripture against Scripture ="fool!" (No Q mark!)
  Read Gal Chptr 3! It starts out w/Word "FOOL" & since I AM part of that SAME "ONE SPIRIT" I AM an heir!
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Rich kelleyposted 8 years ago
Eric
The Lording it over syndrome has been around for a long time. Today in the institutional church it is in the form of what seminary did you go to? Do you have a Doctrine of XYZ? What position do you hold in the church? What Bible version do you use? What church you go to? All questions to establish a pecking order of authority.

I don't find scripture reference that shows Jesus (the one we are disciples of) tossing chapter and verse around to make a point. We can use the chapters and verses that were added much later to figure out where Christ might have gotten the idea but He never brow beat people with scripture to prove anything. His method was "verily verily I say unto you" .

He spoke as one with authority (I say as the Son of God He had it) Yet many would leave when they heard something they didn't want to believe. The same thing happens today. There are 40K plus denominations showing there is a lot of division and difference of opinions.

I try to point out what I think Christ meant by His teachings, many that believe in Christ wouldn't agree with me on MANY points. Some things are just man and His testosterone and in the end may very well not make a hill or beans. Somethings might very well get us kicked out of the Kingdom of God. That is why we are told to study to show ourselves approved, workmen for God.

I will quote chapter and verse just to show I'm not making things up, but today very often I will just let it come out of my mind/heart as I remember the teaching when I read it. Today I find that I may not know the right answer but I know enough to spot a wrong one when I hear it.

Perhaps we could get a federal grant to study the effect of scripture beating on the non-believer and the believer. The answer should be worth a couple of million a year for at least five years and a team of 15 to 20.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Rich: Were we not commanded to "OBSERVE apostles" (Matt 28:20)? MOST believe everything but, saying, "If Jesus didn't say it, not so!"
  Acts 2 when 1st CHURCH estab, AFTER His ascension, is where "observation" should began! Do we? If not, Gal 1:6-9!
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Rich, you remind me of that song: Peaceful Easy Feeling. The more I read and get comfy the more the citations escape me. From my old life, I can liken it to learning code sections which through time just morphs into knowing the law.
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  That is YOUR incorrect take on things as usual. Cut and paste coming from you is nothing but confusion and discord. Again your thoughts not the work of the Holy Spirit as you claim.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Rich: I've done what HS asked of me & my hands r clean! It is up to ALL to STUDY "..to see if these thgs r so" (Acts 17:11)! They called JESUS everything & He said that u would hate me because u hated Him 1st (Jn 15:18)! Expected!
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Norine, what version of the Bible do you use? So maybe we can get on the same page. I have 7 different in print from Vulgate to New English so I can follow you. Do you have a Coptic Bible, Hebrew?
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  lawrence01posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I've got a question. If we're spending time 'in the WORD' then won't it come out in what we write? If someone queries it then we can give 'chapter and verse' but doing it at the start, isn't that arrogant? 16,000 denominations can't be all wrong?
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Law: "16,000 denominations can't be all wrong?" Really? Remember: Eph 6:12; Jn 10:10; Matt 7:13-14! Satan is shrewd! He has used RELIGION to KILL & believers (?) follow as sheep being led to slaughter!
  Satan is ELATED!
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Mano o Mano I hate being called a sheep -- but better than the wolf dressed like one. Maybe 35,000 denominations. Only a few have someone who talks directly to Jesus. We here should call ourselves blessed.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: U can call urself whatever but TRUTH if u don't do as commanded in Matt 28:20 & OBSERVE apostle AFTER Acts 1 when 1st CHURCH was estab (where observation begins), & believe any other gospel (Gal 1;6-9) u don't KNOW JESUS & will be "
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  They did a lot of things to Jesus but until you get hung on a tree I wouldn't insinuate what you do. By the way no one hates you. Not agreeing with what you think is not hate. You generate and control everything that happens. A strange spirit indeed.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine -- which version of the over 250 different versions of the Bible do you study to learn the WORD?
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: Shoe fits wear it. Now I know U don’t KNOW JESUS if u’ve never heard His voice. Blessed? (Is 5:20)! KJV.Rich: If u hate His WORD & I love It, u hate me! U have “a strange spirit indeed”not 2 do what He said “OBSERVE” apostles (Matt28:20)
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  jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Nor - please answer his question re: version of Bible - as I'm also curious (This atheist even owns a couple) - I've been reading these answers with interest as I like to learn. Knowing which version you use will be helpful to me in understanding u.
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  lawrence01posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine
  I've a hub coming out (probably later tonight) called "The hardest parable" read it then call us sheep!
  Jaqui I really wanted to answer your question but it got taken down.
  Norine, you still didn't answer my question!
  Lawrence
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  jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Lawrence - I took it down. Posted too quickly in a weird mood. Thought better of it. Sorry!
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  JL:KJV worst version=man! HS "leads & guides" me. Version irrelevant.
  Law: My resp comes fm WORD= I didn't say IT, but GOD!
  This? "If someone queries it then we can give chapter & verse but doing it at the start, isn't that arrogant?"(I Pet
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, repeating something you don't understand is common but claiming hate because others disagree with you is reaching for an excuse to be wrong. You attempt to echo Christ but your message is distorted and skewed by yourself.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I got the impression that someone wants to be hated and persecuted. The reasons are clear.
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Loneliness cries for attention in different ways.
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  jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Nor - so it's KJV? Or are you embarrassed by the version you do use? I've got one in KJV, so if that's yr version, we might finally be able to follow yr thoughts. If not KJV - it is useful to know version, as translations vary greatly.
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  ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine: In this Post Scriptum to my "good-bye", I owe you only one apology: I just found out you are a female, not a male, hiding behind that male shadow, instead of showing your face to the world. So sorry, Your Femaleship.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, calling people names is unacceptable. Curb your tongue please.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: "Curb your tongue?" My tongue? I use WORD! Did GOD "curb His tongue?" Gal 3!
  R u asking me not to use WORD? If so, I have not further discussion!
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I (Jesus) tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper (Holy Spirit) will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. (The Holy Spirit)
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Rich: And U don't believe that SAME "ONE SPIRIT" can't do that? If u believe, u r of GOD, if not, SATAN!
  
  Did U also notice in Jn 14:26 who would send? If not, "the Father!" But in 16:7 (as u quoted) He (JESUS) said He would send!
  JESUS is GOD!
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine
  If I believe what you believe then I'm OK I got it, I'm sure everyone has got it. If I don't agree with your thoughts on the scripture I'm the devil I get it. Thank God that it is not the gospel according to what Norine thinks and believes.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say IT, WORD did! Have u heard "One Spirit" & "on One Accord?" If not "on One Accord," then where r u?
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ValKarasposted 8 years ago
Maybe the most direct way to answer your question would be by making clear a distinction between having faith and being a religious fanatic. It actually doesn't take so many words to describe someone with faith in their heart. They LOVE - period. The more we philosophize about love, the less we are telling about it, because its essence gets lost in verbalizing, where words may sound different between lips and between ears.

Somewhat similar situation we are facing in religious fanaticism. The more someone cites Bible to me, the less I believe him that he really knows, experiences, lives that purity of love, acceptance, forgiveness, compassion, helpfulness, tolerance...whatever REALLY spells God.

To me it's like a lover about to make love bringing over a book about sexology, so that he can explain to his partner everything he is about to do. A religious fanatic is almost as a rule an unhappy person, paranoid about "evil", normative in his pushiness to make his views everybody else's, and critical about just about everybody who dares to have an open mind.

From a pathological point of view, he may have some delusions about his "solemn mission", his "being sent" to "bring back every lost sheep". He is easy to recognize for his constant and detailed citing of Bible, without which he wouldn't know how to cook a meal, start a car, sing a song...anything. If you asked him how to repair a bike, all the chances are that he would cite something from Bible.

It's amazing how quickly he may see you as a "Satan's servant", if you have a nerve to oppose to his shallow, parrot-like reciting of passages. Now, don't take me wrong, I've got nothing against folks finding an inspiration in the teachings of Jesus. But for Pete's sake (no pun intended), Jesus was not a jerk with a mentality of Spanish Inquisition, and if we want to follow him we might as well use our hand for healing, not for "whipping the heresy our of people".

I just left a question an hour ago, because of a few commenters that would perfectly fit the above description of self-appointed "exorcists". So, I wanted to write my answer "in full", to avoid any of those short 250-caracter comments for which I have no interest whatsoever.

If you see any comments to this answer that fit my description of a religious fanatic, please have a good laugh before you try to reason with him, because you won't feel like laughing after reading his comment to your opinion - you will just feel sorry for the guy.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  There is some beauty with age. I know that most of it is hesitation and clay feet. But some is in the beauty of watching forms of nothing take shape into something. We get to see flowers bloom from the bud on. We are not just awestruck by the rose.
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  ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Age is also a time to appreciate every late sign of youth left in us - and like in my case, create it out of a thin air. Inspired by nothing but a sheer love for life, and a boyish curiosity to see what else I can be. Yes, with a dash of defying.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Guys: If 1 loves GOD, 1 will do as He says - Point Blank! May appear "ignorant, fanatic, paranoid, critical, shallow," etc., but have Scripture to back up! What do u have? Prove ur love when Scriptures "cited" proves GOD'S LOVE! Satan does "laugh!"
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  ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine: One difference between us is that Eric and I are human beings, and you are a schizoid robot programmed with one book, constantly bumping into reality of your mental illness and trying to sugar-coat it with Scriptures. Wake up.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Vlad: WOW! U continue to reveal yourself!
  Read Jn 15:18-27!
  You've proven again: "No one "hates" WORD like "SATAN!"
  Naptime! Going to "rest" (peace) w/"Faith" in JESUS!
  See u soon - SATAN!
  Love your "handle"! it's befitting! The "Smog"="tsmog!"
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  ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: What did I tell you? The guy is just a hopeless case. I hope to meet you again at a question where he is not advertising his catalog of verses. I wish I knew what's eating him so much that he is resorting to this fanaticism. Bye for now.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Vlad: SATAN (and anyone who condones his actions) has ALREADY been defeated and has been proven again!
  You can't win so why try? You've been defeated! Fight against the HS? R u kidding? Get Real!
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  ValKarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine: I love God, I love Jesus, I love life, I am a happy and robustly healthy 71, free-thinking man, enjoying beautiful things of life, with many friends, including Jesus and God. I don't hate you, hate spoils my digestion. Bye.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Val: Easily spoken but fm ur comments, not so! Jn 14:15;23 Jesus said, "If U love me, keep my commandments."
  Do u?
  If not, you've proven yourself - SATAN (Jn 8:44)!
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jlparkposted 8 years ago
Eric, I'm not a religious person in any form. I like to learn about religion, so follow some of these questions without commenting, learning as I go.
But, I thought I would answer this time.

I've often wondered the same (well, similar anyway). Why lord over me with scripture? If one is loving of another fellow human without being told to, just loving because they are a fellow human - be they of faith or not, be they the same or different - then, yes I think it's more pure.

When one is not of faith, or of a faith or 'lifestyle' that another's faith disagrees with, one does not need to be berated with scripture as to why they are sinners/wrong. One needs to be treated with love and respect, without judgement (cause isn't that God's job?), and encouraged gently to see the love that one is living in their relationship with your God.

I find that one will encourage more people to see the 'truth' with love, than with judgement, and bombardment with scripture.

Examples abound in this question of the way NOT to do it - lording scriputure over another, "bashing them over the head with it" more often than not has the opposite effect than I'm guessing they were intending. You may say that it's due to my lack of faith/religious knowledge/knowledge of Christ etc, but there is one in particular who goes to great lengths to attempt to 'beat' people into believing with screeds of scripture - I actually struggle to make any sense of the messages they share because they are so filled with "beating over the head" type use of scripture. Which, defeats the purpose of trying to spread the love of Christ (Don't smack me about the head with it, and I might even listen).

Thank you for letting me answer this, even if I may not have completely understood the intention of your question.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  JL: Human 'love' is not forgiving, holds grudges,etc. Rm 8:7-8; II Tim 3:5;
  Human 'love' is not Agape "love" but Phileo 'love' which is not GOD'S Spiritual "love!"
  If 1 "loves"GOD,he keeps His commands & "teaches all nations" (Matt 28:19) w/WOR
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Jacqui, what marvelous words of tolerance and love. We Christians have much to learn from our friends who are not. And I hope it is the other way also. Perhaps the purest love that man can show is that which is his alone.
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  jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric - thanks. I agree
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: R u an atheist? U've created ur own def of love? Then proclaim "Christianity?" U hypocrite!
  I expect this of them, but 1 that proclaims "Christianity?" There's no other word - Hypocrisy!
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  jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Nor, did you even read my answer? Your style of beating people around the head with screeds of unintelligible scripture turns more people AWAY from Christ than to Him.
  And name calling is childish
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine you have lost certain things and one of them, most regrettably is love. I pray for you.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  JL"unintelligible scripture?" (Jn 8:44) Unbeliever, why r u here? Satan's advocate? If yes, U've already been defeated!
  Eric: Until ur def of 'love' aligns w/GOD'S, don't speak it to me nor "pray for me" for I don't need prayer from Satan!
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  jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Nor - you abbreviate so much your answers make little sense - to believer and non alike. I'm here to learn, not be beaten around the head with scripture. But hey, you'd know that if you'd read my answer. Again with the name calling?
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  JL: IF u were here to "learn," U'd listen instead of calling "judgmental" when WORD judges, not I! Who says we're not to judge-not WORD! I Cor 6:3 "Do u know we will judge angles?" So who is man?
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  jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  gathering you may have read the answer this time. Being called a sinner or fool by someone who is NOT God is judgemental. It's not word. Quoting screeds of scripture makes it difficult to learn from you, becus it lacks context. Thanks 4 trying.
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  peter565posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Jacqui, if there is a Christian version of Taliban, u can expect Norine to be somebody who join it and become a suicide bomber,
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  jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Peter - Ha!
  I'm just saddened for people like Nor, who do not realise that their behaviour is turning more people away from the God they wish to encourage people to seek out. It's not the unbelievers - it's the over zealous.
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word55posted 8 years ago
Scripture is the gospel truth. It justifies right and wrong. It has proven to work. We are products of God's creation. Norine had a good question that was rather humorous and she made a good point. Be careful here.
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  The understanding of that gospel truth differs depending on how God's "products" perceive the scripture. Those that believe and read their bibles don't question what they read, but what others "imply" into what is written.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Rich: "that gospel?" (Gal 1:6-9) "perceive" the Scripture?" (Prov 3:5) "Imply?" (Is 55:11) IT IS WRITTEN!
  Word: "rather humorous?" Explain!
  Yes, "Be careful," because not of Norine but the WORD of GOD, which she gives & believes Jer 23:1!
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Everything you quote (usually out of context) is YOUR perception that it applies. Knowing when to apply what is written takes discernment, something that seems to evade your interactions for some reason.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Whoa, this is a new term I have not reconciled with previous understanding. A human "gives" the word? Please give explanation. I would love to give the word.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Rich: Any "fool" knows Christ died, told us before ascension to "OBSERVE" apostles (Matt 28:19), Promised HS to help (Jn 14: 26;16:13), Sent HS Acts 2:2; but BEFORE-chose Paul to finish work (Acts 9:15)! R u "OBSERVING?" If not, Gal 1:6-9!
  Eric:STUDY
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Pointing out that we are Fools and hypocrites doesn't sound very much like the Jesus of Scripture. In fact there is caution about calling people fools. Your self actualization has gotten a bit out of hand. Read 28:19
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Rich: As part of that ONE SPIRIT!If Paul says "Fool" (Gal Chptr 3) GOD doesn't deny me! "Hypocrites?" Matt23:26
  Eric: Prophets (men) gave WORD in Scripture because JESUS has always used us (men/Paul Acts 9:15) as His hands & ft since He's SPIRIT
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Shall I define that spirit you are part of or just let you remove any doubt in everyones minds?
  
  "But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire."
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  So Norine Williams a humble and simple servant of the lord you have been chosen to lead us?
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: If u were "filled with the Holy Spirit," U wouldn't have to ask!
  Did He not say He would "lead & guide us into ALL truth?"
  Either U believe or not!
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  He (Jesus) said the Holy Spirit would lead and guide us.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Rich: And what better ONE to know that He would, since He was speaking of Himself (Jn 14:26="...in MY (JESUS') NAME...")!
  U can't deny Scripture or of SATAN!
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
  This doesn't say Jesus is the HS or that He is God.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Rich: U r so complacent in "tradition" even when given Scripture, u refuse to obey! My GOD! U cont to say "I say" when all I do is repeat WORD! U cont to call "my spirit" as 1 of Satan although I give WORD! Therefore, I ask, "What spirit is in u?"
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  PlanksandNailsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  The common MO of spiritual manipulation is isolate “proof texts” + “cherry pick” them to persuade the credulous that their interpretation is right even to the extent of claiming they alone hear from God having “the truth” and everybody else is wrong.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "Cherry pick" chrono events of NT! Christ born, ex on earth fulfilling some law, Promised HS, DIED, comm OBSERVE apostles & WAIT, HS came, do we OBSERVE apostles r "WAITED?" If so, don't baptize in F,S, & HS they didn't! "Cherry Pick" that!
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Ericdierkerposted 8 years ago
Hey the way this is set up I get to obnoxiously answer my own question. Ain't that a hoot! First of all let me ask all to either send best of healing intentions, or in my case prayers, for any that were less than happy participating here. Let us be clear there is not hatred floating around - I just hate hate ;-)
I learned so much here and probably will continue to learn much more.
There is a term that is used derogatorily: "Bible Thumper". I am not sure it's origin. I do not know if it means to thump somebody on the head with the Bible or to thump it with your own hand in it's purest definition. I prefer to think of it as someone who comes unsolicited and quotes the Bible at you rather than for you. Your own minister/pastor/preacher is expected to quote verses to you. The guy who interrupts your conversation quoting, unsolicited, from the Bible to assure you that you are not a real Christian is a Bible thumper. There was once a guy here at HP who would thump the bible to assure you that everyone was going to what we consider heaven. It was refreshing. Did we have Bible thumping going on here in the vein antagonistic to the clear intent of the question as a proposition? Maybe. Did it answer the question? I think it did. And it did so by example. Many came to answer the question with a real desire to put their own thoughts out there and I learned much. I also learned that those that I consider Bible thumpers often misquote or take out of context verses from the Bible. I looked up a full twenty and found them not to support the argument being made. (as an aside I like to call those versus - get it?)
By the Law of the Bible. I ain't a going to no heaven. By the Grace of the Bible -- shoot I am already there right here. Some of the love shown here was pure and from a sharing of the heart and mind. It refreshed me and lifted me up. This was opposed to the depression I got from finding that some believe the Bible condemns me for my want of following the "law".
So the underlying question "do we get pardoned" by law or by love was answered clearly. I did not gain one tittle of understanding about God by being thumped. But I felt some of the love and got a better perspective in seeing God in my fellows. That shall be and always will be a gift as close to God as I can get.
I got so much out of this that I will be back. Thanks a bunch!
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1. 51
  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: "Out of context" or "Out of Religion's interpretation?"
  
  Satan is laughing!
  Who can argue=Christ died, Promised HS to Help, Sent, Told us to OBSERVE apostles, & told us if we didn't we would be "Accursed!"
  Does Scripture not say this?
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine I pray for you
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: Please don't! I give TRUTH & IF u know Scripture, u know what I've posted is TRUE! It's only against ur man-made belief which u r to prideful to admit; therefore, I Jn 2:16 applies! If not fm the Father, fm whom? SATAN!
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine let me try this real straightforward. I know scripture and I know the Holy Spirit. (I don't shame it by abbreviations) I disagree with you. That does not make me wrong and you right. It is that simple.
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Carb Divaposted 8 years ago
Eric - I think the problem with the Pharisees is that they were, of course, holding everyone to the standards prescribed in Old Testament law. Have you ever read the book of Leviticus? Its LAW and LAW and then some more LAW. Impossible for anyone to liver perfectly. Unless, of course, you were a Pharisee (at least, in THEIR eyes they were holding perfectly to the law).

But, I agree with you, first needs to come love. Don't quote the Bible a give only the Law without also reminding people of the Gospel message--that's the love part, and the part that all of us need to be reminded of each and every day. We sin, all of us do, but Jesus has redeemed us.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I think we have room to love. I know it is busy as a beaver out there. I don't always have time for law. But I always have time for love. Call me an old fool but I think that works all things right.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Carb: Man's 'love' doesn't equate to GOD'S "Love!" God's def of "Love:" If u love me, u will "keep my commandments." Now, who does that? They can't due to RELIGION which defies "The Gospel of Christ!"
  
  So, then, there's no "Love" for GOD!
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  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  The Pharisees were hypocrits and wanted to be seen as holy. They were not concerned about being holy.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine your Christian youth and exuberance is admirable and welcome. But perhaps there is a time that when your elders speak you should contemplate and not show your youth in Christ so blatantly. We tolerate and love youth but-----
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  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  The two greatest commendments are 1) Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and 2) Love thy neighbor as thyself. They don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  ET. Example of entern who studies many books to be a lawyer,should they look
  At those books as Harry potter, lord of the Rings, if he or she does they will not make it
  Through the Bar Exam,the most crucial of all exams.The bible is more valuble
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  GOD'S definition of LOVE is as mine = TRUTH! Whether IT displays love as man sees it or not (Heb 4:12) IT is LOVE! Would u lie to ur kids? Neither does GOD & why I repeat HIS WORD!
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willmcwryterposted 8 years ago
that's why they call it bible thumpin. thump them over the head with your own book in return.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Diane I love that last expression of " until they know how much you care"
  Is really what this is all about, Jesus said words , but the words were backed up by facing his death to purchase us a future.
  look how much he cared,
  Now it is our turn !
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  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  K & T, Praise the Lord!
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  Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  We praise him by trusting in him and our New future, thanks for your sharing your up building words.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  U fools! Until u consider the "chronological events" of the NT, u will cont in "twisted doctrine!" U believe as u please (Free Will), but u can't change WORD and/or the "chronological events" of the New Testament!
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  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Appropriate Scripture responses to Jehovah's Witness - none are Christians. https://home.snu.edu/~hculbert/jehovah.htm
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Diane: As u have "assumed" your doctrine (belief), u now "assume" I'm JW! Where is your spirit of discernment? Another trying to undermine the Holy Spirit as does K&T who is really the JW but lays it on so syrupy sweet, MOST believe!
  Prz the Lor
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  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, when you don't reveal what you are, I use the Scriptures to test what you are. If not JW, you are possibly something far worse. You must live a miserable life. If you are not possessed, it is possible you are being oppressed.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  D: IF JESUS is "something far worse," (for ALL I repeat is HIS WORD), where is ur Spirit of Discernment & what does that make U?
  LYING SATAN (Jn 8:44)!
  Neither "possessed" (as they called JESUS) nor "oppressed" (Jn 15:18)! I'm Christ-like! Amen
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  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine I have warned you several times. I reported you to Hubpages less than 5 minutes ago.
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starclassics513posted 8 years ago
I'm not sure if you remember this Eric, but Jesus himself uses Scripture to rebuke the devil's temptations towards him, not his own quotes or messages or sayings or anything else. He used The Pharisees twisted religious law, not unlike what a lot of people have done with the Bible since it was first released, and they manipulated it to fit their viewpoint and purposes.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I just don't know what your point is. Read this 3 times.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Point is Eric, JESUS used Scripture & aren't we "supposed to be" like HIM?
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You got me there, but I do not wear sandals and a robe. And Jesus did not cite the old testament He spoke it. He was a scholar of the old testament. He did not use it as the point He used it to emphasize a point. He did not teach the old testament.
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  tsadjatkoposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric,Jesus believed theOldTestament was divinely inspired,veritable WordofGod.He said,‘The Scripture can't be broken’(J10:35).He referred to Scripture as‘the commandment of God’(Mtw15:3)&as the ‘Word of God’(Mk 7:13).&indestructable, Mtw 5:18
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  No doubt about that. But I cannot find a reference to him citing a verse. Repeating it and referencing it yes but not giving a citation. He knew his audience. I want to know what he thought and he provides that. I can read.
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  tsadjatkoposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Citing a verse&reciting are the same thing.He wrote them,why would he give chapter&verse.A simpleGoogle search will tell you he quoted from the old testament often.http://blog.biblia.com/2014/04/which-old-testament-book-did-jesus-quote-imost/
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  No. The distinction between citing a verse and restating it for the audience is huge. Jesus' "parishioners" would not have a clue if he just cited a number verse. My point is that he talked about it without showing off the numbers he memorized.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Erick I can assist in the reference Jesus uses and read from the old testement.
  
  One is Lu 4:18“Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me ...
  Jesus Quotes : Isa 61:1, 2
  Ps 110:1
  Jesus Quote: Mr 12:36
  
  Deut 8:3
  Quotes Mt 4:4
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  tsadjatkoposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric, what are you saying, why would anyone cite chapter and verse back then? It's not like they all had the Torah in their hands to look it up.He is the Living Word of God,fully God&yet fully man,who came to reveal God to man and redeem all
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Norine I cannot understand you. I will probably delete as nonsensical. You do not get it do you?
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tirelesstravelerposted 8 years ago
Great question. Two of my favorite believers of all time spoke and speak scripture into almost every conversation. The catch is if you don't know scripture what they say makes good sense. If you know scripture you think,"Wow, I wish I could have put it that way." Love your definition of bible thumper.
I think it comes from people who pound on their bibles thinking they are rabbits.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Great to bring the greatest Thumper into this. And if you know rabbits you know it can get obnoxious. Your message is powerful in it's positive approach.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  IF u r a believer, u KNOW II Tim 3:16 "ALL" Scripture is "inspired by GOD" & HE is not man that HE should LIE (Num 23:19)! I ask, what would u rather have for Salvation, 1's opinion or the WORD OF GOD? A lot of "rabbits" here thumpn v studyn!
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  Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus himself read from the scrolls.
  Lu 4:17 So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him, and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written:
  Jesus read from God's word.
  Isaiah also has God's personal name
  YHWH. Jehovah
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Jehovah is HIS name forever which means "Was, Is, & Is to Come" or "I AM!" That name is His Characteristics which means EVERYTHING including ALL in Is 9:6!
  Under New Covenant (where we NOW live), Philippians 2:9-11 applies & U will bow to JE
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Shadrack2posted 8 years ago
Well Jesus himself quoted the bible severally when he said: it is written...,Havent you read that...,It was said in the laws that... Hence using the bible in arguing spiritual matters is on point. Just like arguing issues of the law using the constitution.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Excellent point Shadrack2. Please note that He did not quote it every time He spoke. And out of the possibly 70 or so times it is referenced it is alluded to and not cited. He may have quoted it about 20+ times. (rough only)
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  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  He quoted and had extended dialog to clarify. Eric, this is not like what we have experienced for the past two weeks.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Having education does not make you qualified to tell people what to do.
  You can share your gift of knowledge but do not demand or taunt a person with a ego.
  It is a big turn off.
  We can not force a gift on anyone of spiritual content, we can shar
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  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  K & T, that is so true. My sister was laughing and taunting me because I believe there will be a rapture. She "visits" a Bible study so she can argue with the pastor. This is inconsistent with loving others and wanting to share the truth.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  D: U agree w/JW=Satan?
  "Birds of a feather do flock together" (Ps 119:63) both w/"TWISTED DOCTRINE!"
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Readmikenowposted 8 years ago
When someone quotes the bible to me, I ask them if they know the language that Jesus spoke. If they say ancient Hebrew, I know they really haven't put much effort into studying the bible. It's actually Aramaic. I then ask if they know the number of times the bible has been translated leading to the King James version. I also ask if they know how much of the bible is included in the Jewish Torah. I will then show how words can change meanings in translation and give examples. (The eye of a needle was not what we thing of today. It was the opening on the side of a wall that merchants had to get their camels to get down and crawl through). I then ask them how much do they really know about the bible. It's more than reading it, to know the bible requires studying it, its history and more. Oh, the "weeping and gnashing of teeth" I experience.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting. You make a lot of sense. The Socratic method works for varied results. I give pause and wonder if the Bible only speaks to the discerned as you describe.
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  Readmikenowposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  My policy is...if you're going to quote the Bible, know the Bible. Simply reciting scriptures you've read shows me nothing. Often they are taken out of context. Know the history and then you start to understand the real meaning behind it.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  If our friendly "Bible Thumpers" followed your advice they would be well advised to give it time and let the good news soak in before spewing like they would any reference book. For me it is just plain interesting and fun to learn about the good book
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  Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  And that is why in Luke 10:18 where Jesus said I saw Satan fall like "lightning from on high" it sounded just like BARAK O BAMAH.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Read: Did the Bible loose the moral of the story after all translations? Ex: "Eye of a needle"camel or (if perceived) person going thru needle, still "hard!" I then ask, do u not blv in Holy Spirit & HE can "lead & guide 1 into ALL truth?" WA
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  jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  After many translations, Norine, you have inherent translator bias. Happens when u translate from one language to another, let alone through several before English as the Bible has. So, yes, the moral of story has changed - 2 fit the time of translat
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  Rich kelleyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "To fit the time of translation"
  I would add to fit their religious doctrinal beliefs as well. The one with the money and power for the translation can guide it's meaning. The history of the King James translation is a perfect example.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Let me tell u guys the "secrets" of discerning chgs of Bible! 1) Holy Spirit guidance; 2) Matt 18:16; 3) Deut 19:15; 4) 2 Cor 13:1! As they chgd Matt 28:19 & added I Jn 5:7-8 to "witness," Holy Spirit reveals!
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Why worry? Unless u don't believe Scripture? Did not Jn 16:13 say HE would "guide us into ALL truth?" U don't "believe?"
  U ALL "talk" a good "talk," but where is your "belief?"
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jerrycarmanposted 8 years ago
When I quote from the Bible I am giving thefacts so you ca live by them.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  To continue , she was arrogant, haughty, till one day the principal kept calling her class, three times from the intercom.She was out as usual until he just made a special trip to her class no teacher the whole hour.
  Jesus knows everything .
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Amen! FACTS!
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  Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting Diane of your experience with your sister , no one should be vexed because they know something, then the thing is ,the person could have wrong information. Why don't you also have your own private study as solid evidence. They are free
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Pete: U wouldn't know a "Christian" if 1 came up & bit u on ur behind!
  Looks like Eric doesn't either! U can "run" but u can't "hide" fm TRUTH in WORD!
  Unbelieving Hypocrites=SATAN!
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tsadjatkoposted 8 years ago

Eric, odd that you should bring this up, because more often than not the people I run into who quote the Bible as their argument are ATHEISTS! The Pharisees were like atheists!

Very strange that a people who admit they do not believe in God, especially the God of the Bible, often describing it as fantasy and make believe, so often when stumped by a logical or factual rebuttal of their "belief" or unbelief (however you want to put it, because it actually does take way more faith to believe in Atheism than to believe in God and the Bible) revert to quoting scripture, always out of context in their belief that it somehow, in their twisted minds demonstrates a point they want to make.

If one believes something like the Bible is a fictional story book why would one choose to put any stock in anything written in it even to try to build a case of whether it is true or not based on what is written. And every time they do this they fall into a trap, that they have not studied the Bible, certainly not with the aid of teachers to explain what they may not understand (same people go to universities, they don't become scientists or engineers on their own) nor considered the verses they choose in context of the entire Biblical text, the times and cultures in which the verse was written and what the last word on it is in the Bible. (for example Jesus didn't mean you should self mutilate when he said, "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you;...If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you;..." in context it is more clear the point Jesus is making is it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell but this example demonstrates how Atheists don't search the scripture for the truth and only pick and choose out of context verses they can imagine it makes their point, when according to them it is fantasy anyway - not sane nor logical and certainly not scientific which is another thing they like to hide behind, science, by picking and choosing what "science" they approve of to make their point.

Another thing Atheists do, since they have no authority such as God to cite, they have no basis for absolutes like morals, so they attack scriptures that refer to judgement for evil such as hell imagining in their twisted sense of "logic" and "love" God needs to scare you into his fold. Who are they to judge the creator of the universe and how he created it?
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting answer. For some reason atheists quoting the Bible does not seem wrong to me. There is faith and there is knowledge of the Bible. One does not require the other. Certainly there are degrees of understanding and one should recognize it.
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  tsadjatkoposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "One does not require the other." We don't need theBible?How in the world did u come up with that?Show where,cause blind faith is not in the Bible,I quote"without faith it is impossible to please God,""Study to show thyself approved unto God
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Easy buddy. There are plenty of Biblical scholars that are not Christian. Especially Jewish ones.
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  Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Barack H. Obama said "Be still and know that I am God!" without citing chapter & verse.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  That is amazing. But it does not surprise me at all.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Who is this Kevin & where does Obama fit in? GOD! Take it easy man ur roots r showing! The ONLY TRUE WORDS spoken r fm Bible & IF u don't believe that, u r not a TRUE WORSHIPER!
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Sgt Prepperposted 8 years ago
The Bible is God's handbook for life. The gospels provide the "good news" of forgiveness and salvation through God's ONLY begotten Son Jesus.
The prophets and John the Revelator give us a glimpse of what to expect in these "last days". Kenyan-born Obama is the Antichrist & Jesuit Pope Francis is his False Prophet. Allah is just another name for the devil. So get ready for The Rapture and the Tribulation.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Very fascinating. I am sure you have exact scripture to back up your prophesy.
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  Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  My favorite verses are quotations of Jesus. He said "You must be born again.", " The poor will always be with you and you can give to them whenever you want.", " When a strong man well-armed keeps his palace(or homestead) his goods are in peace."
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Those are cool verses. It is interesting to get a glimpse of your point of view.
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  Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Ephesians 6:12 provides the key to what is happening in our government and banking. In Luke 10:18 Jesus said out of the blue "I saw Satan fall like lightning from on high." BARAK means "lightning" & BAMAH means "on high". John 3:16-18 is good t
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Kev: If he is the anti-Christ, he's not doing a very good job but allowing what "the people" want! Rm 13 "Let every soul be subj unto the higher pwrs.For there is no pwr but of God; the pwrs that b are ordained of God." Now what, Kevin? Rd ALL!
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Oneironautposted 8 years ago
In my opinion, I would say that the only way someone can be in line with the message of Jesus and quote scripture in a judgmental way to other people is if they, themselves live 100% in accordance with the teachings. Good luck finding one of those people.
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  Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  So a cop who cheats on his wife shouldn't be allowed to arrest murderers? Where will you spend eternity? In Heaven with the virgin-born, Son of God, Jesus the Christ OR in hell with the Kenyan-born son of a pornstar Obama the Antichrist?
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  Oneironautposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  A cop who cheats on his wife arresting a murderer has zero relevance to anything I said. As to where I will spend eternity, that is not your question to ask me.
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  Sgt Prepperposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  How can a cop who doesn't live a perfect life give out a speeding ticket with a straight face? I am a sinner lost, but for Jesus, telling others the only way to eternal salvation.
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  Oneironautposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Policing is a job. Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and even atheists can do the job. If the job does't require Jesus, then doing the job shouldn't be compared to being "holier than thou." A cop without God is a cop. A cop outside the law is criminal
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "in a judgmental way" says it all. Remember the cop is not the judge. Quoting the Bible can be fine -- it is how it is done that really matters.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  U need to learn WORD! I find no man in Scripture 100% but JESUS! Good luck in your belief!
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Kiss andTalesposted 8 years ago
Mt 4:4 But he answered: “It is written: ‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah’s mouth.’”
Quoting scriptures can be a good thing of reminders and proof of the truth, and acceptance of God.
while some people find it unnecessary
Then we have to go back to Jesus example did he quote scriptures,
yes.
But as you have mention so did the religious hypocrites for their own selfish reasons.

Also to note satan quoted scriptures as well notice .
Mt 4:6 and said to him: “If you are a son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written: ‘He will give his angels a command concerning you,’ and, ‘They will carry you on their hands, so that you may not strike your foot against a stone.’”
Satan also repeated this scripture to Jesus. From the book of Psalm.
Ps 91:11, 12 For he will give his angels a command concerning you, To guard you in all your ways. 12 They will carry you on their hands, So that you may not strike your foot against a stone.

The scriptures are a reverence that is a gift from God to assist us
Ro 15:4 For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope.
True anything in the wrong hands can be abused,
But the word of God will save our lives
Even if it should cut like a sword to the inner intentions of the heart. We must listen so we can live throughout eternity.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Just to share , example I had a bad example of a high school teacher, she would not teach , but leave students to read assignments, leave the class room and return before the bell would ring. What did we learn from her ?she gave students F's.
  And--
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "True anything in the wrong hands can be abused," U ought to KNOW! Nasty little demon, throwing rocks & hiding hand as usual! U r only here to lose souls (Jn 10:10) but using the WORD of GOD is unforgivable!
  GOD "sees!"
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  Kiss andTalesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine you are the only one here saying things, calling people fools, ignort, demanding people to study , give book, you are the one that is acting out what you are calling others, not once have I called you the things you say. Not example of Jesus
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine do not be sad if I delete your comments, it is just my personal taste. You called me Satan and now K&T little demon. Those are just over the top.
  So do not feel bad.
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  jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric - screen shot them first, if you are deleting them.
  Nor - your behaviour and name calling is in fact losing souls using the word of God - not gaining them. I wish you could see that, but sadly you don't.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Jlpark, I just went ahead and picked the ones -- that I hope Norine would be embarrassed about later. I did not alter the thrust of her position in any way. No one could miss her point.
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  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  It should be noted that Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians. They even have their own Bible, New World Translation. If it is noted that Norine takes that position, it shouldn't lead anyone away from Christ. They don't believe Jesus is God.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  k&t: Did u notice I posted 2 wks ago & u followed 7 days ago? Record will reveal! U're the devil's advocate looking 2 find err in Holy Spirit!
  Diane: I agree w/u Diane! K&T is your JW, not I! U guys need to read Is 59:8="No judgment!"
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dianetrotterposted 8 years ago
It does no good to use a Scripture when there is no way to connect. For nonbelievers, most don't really care. For new believers, they require foundation (milk before meat). If someone said, "I don't need to go to church. I'm not a bad person." I would say, "It is not about being a bad person or a good person. No one is good all of the time." I would then quote Romans 3:23: "For all have sinned and fall short of God's standard." Then I would explain that God knows that it is impossible for us to be perfect. He loves us and forgives us when we ask for forgiveness.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Well put Diane. We need to keep it "faith age" appropriate. Love will handle that if we allow it.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  No need to lead someone into "twisted doctrine!" Still sin!
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  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Who is the fool?
  Proverbs 18:2
  A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.
  
  Proverbs 29:11 A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Diane: ALL that have been "bewitched" with "twisted doctrine" as JESUS stated in Galatians Chapter 3!
  Prov 18:2 does apply to u guys "no pleasure in understanding..his opinion," so does Prov 29:11 "to his spirit"
  I repeat WORD so who's the fool?
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  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Norine, thank God no one is taking you seriously. I have never met a Jehovah's Witness to be as mean spirited and arrogant as you. Thank God no one is paying attention to you.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  D: They will WISH they had! Being "RELIGIOUSLY CORRECT" will NOT save 1, only TRUTH in HIS WORD!
  U wish I was JW!
  IF u had Holy Spirit discernment, u would KNOW!
  U need to "go back" & "WAIT" (Acts 1:4); otherwise, LOST!
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delleaposted 8 years ago
I question your salvation for a couple of reasons. First, the crucifixion is the result of God's decision to allow his pure son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for the sins of humanity... the Pharisees etc supposedly using scripture to judge Jesus was all part of Jesus' path to the cross, it was not the "result in the crucifixion". Second, if you claim to be a Christian (or at least a believer in God) yet you aren't basing your own life and decisions on what the Bible says then you probably aren't "saved" at all. If you claim to be a believer yet you choose to love others without reading, believing and understanding what the Bible says about how to love others... I'm sorry, but you're not a true believer. God is the creator of the universe and everything in it; love is only a very small needle in that haystack, so if your "faith" is based entirely on love alone then you are already lost.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Very interesting answer. You have very clear stated views. It is good to hear other people's opinions so thank you for sharing yours. Judging what is in another's heart is very bold.
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  tsadjatkoposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  It's true Eric,onlyGod knows one's heart&He hasn't appointed anyone to be the judge of 1's heart.Because 1 fails at practicing Christianity doesn't necessarily mean they are not a C.but if there's reason to doubt theres reason to examine1self
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  dianetrotterposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Arthur, I just read your feature hub and left a comment. I will follow you. There is a tendency for people to want to make everyone Christians whether they want to be or not. It is a free will choice and God forces no one.
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  Ericdierkerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  It is cool TSAD I just listened to a sermon yesterday On Paul's writings to the Corinthians about how we are all part of the same body, though each very different. I hope my head learns from my feet.
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  Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Eric: Do u know what "part of the same body" means? ON ONE ACCORD! 1st Cor 12:12 "ONE SPIRIT" "..SO ALSO IS CHRIST" = ONE SPIRIT, not Father, Son, & Holy Spirit but MORE & THAT SAME (ONE) SPIRIT!
  I Pet 3:15 "ALWAYS ANSWER Q" if not, UnChrist
  reply report

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I hesitate when I hear of see someone quote the Bible as their argument. I thoug

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I hesitate when I hear of see someone quote the Bible as their argument. I thoug

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