Why do Christians women utilize the 'sin' of abortion the most in the United States?
This question is in response to the ignorant questions asked by Christians whose hearts are breaking over us supposedly uncaring humans 'murdering babies'. I have had it with being accused of being a heartless human when such hypocrisy exists. Source, guttmacher: seven in 10 US women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other). The abortion rate for protestant women is 15 per 1,000 women, while Catholic women have a slightly higher rate, 22 per 1,000. If abortion is wrong, why do they do it? Why do they need a law to refrain from this sin?
Murder is murder no matter who commits it. Sin is sin no matter who does it. I should probably think that at least some of the women cited are nominal "cultural" Christians who identify themselves as as "Christians" on a survey but who don't make any real effort to live out the Christian worldview.
So far your argument appears to be an example of the tu quoque logical fallacy.
I think you should try to understand why it is that the human fetus has personhood and thus a right to life that supersedes any rights that mother might have over bodily autonomy.
I understand the 'personhood' of babies; and I understand that souls do not enter a fetus (which has no personhood) until the body is capable of doing so - often shortly before or after birth. Your religion creates hysteria & division from ignora
Yes, guttmacher.org - the information is a few years old. I have had a few Christian friends have to make this choice - and more chose abortion than not because they feared their parents more than their God. Why? This is the reason for this question.
You're still not focused on the question of whether or not the fetus is a person. If your friends believed that, then I don't think they would have elected to follow through. I'm still convinced that your statistics are misleading.
Those statistics can be found in other places if you don't like the source I used. Do a search. They will vary slightly. These girls KNOW what they are doing when they go in for an abortion. They have been taught all their lives how wrong it is...
I think the womans life supersedes the growing fetus. It is dumb, cruel, and economically ruinous to have a child unwanted. It can be prevented, and should be. Here, have this child, then watch it die by gunfire, bomb, starvation. That's OK with god!
Back to my solution-there is only one true way for 100% no abortion:either have no sex--Yeah right, men will go for that.Or force vasectomies on all baby boys.When they want a child, they can have it reversed. No public funds used:Forehyde amendment.
Leslie, that's an interesting point. I wonder how men would react to every woman on the planet abstaining from sex. We'd probably see just as many abortions but as a result of rape instead of just an oopsie. Sounds great!
Hmm, forcibly sterilizing males is fascist....forcing females to give birth is "godly"...I can clearly see the problem here. Like said, it's 2016. My daughter is not a brood-mare. And if you want zero abortion, my way is best. But that's not it,isit?
Well yes, that's what I said. Vasectomy. Travis turned it into forced sterilization to demonizing my words. They're good at that here. Careful, soon you'll be told you enjoy killing babies. They really stop at nothing.
Hmm, try this: my body, my decision. My private life, not your business. Or do we amend the constitution to allow your religion into my bedroom? How about my career? How I raise my kids? Does separation mean nothing? Founding dads thought so. So do I
But it's not an undebatable stance. You have to understand that not everyone considers terminating a pregnancy to be murder. You're free to hold that opinion but you're not free to impose it on everyone else.
How am I imposing my view? I'm not forcing people to have abortions. I actually would never have an abortion myself, I wouldn't feel comfortable with it. But that's me. I've no interest in saying everyone else should feel the same way.
Sure, whatever. If someday it's somehow proven that a fetus can be considered a conscious, viable being from conception then you go right ahead and say I advocated mass murder. Until then, I'll defend a woman's right to make choices for herself.
Views can be imposed regardless of whether they are right or wrong. I do have a criterion. Does a fetus in Nigeria suddenly become a person by being viable in the U.S.? Does flying back to Nigeria take away that personhood?
That's fine for you.....but still, things happen that cannot be expected. I say leave it up to the woman. Trust her to do what's right. How in the world is this not the norm? Partial birth is necessary. Women die.
No, I've already said I don't have an exact point of 'personhood'. I don't think a fetus is a person from conception, I think it happens sometime btwn then & viability. W/o knowing exactly when I think it needs to be weighed w/ a woman's rights t
I've given birth 3 times, and I can't explain it. How bout yourself? I know...why don't you explain it to me! Explain the working of the universe. Explain to me the mystery of creation. I'll wait.Meanwhile, I'll trust my experience over your beliefs.
Sperm has unique DNA. Shall we prevent masturbation? The nuns used to say it made you go blind.i know- let's control every waking moment of every person's life so no one offends your views on what constitutes life.You don't like masturbation?yadayada
I thought we covered that already. An egg becomes a person when the woman says it does. That is the way of this world. That's how the Creator made it. No amount of arguing will change it. I accept my role in nature. You have no say. Sorry to burst it
Lol, then a 2 year old child isn't a person unless the mother says that she is. You're just repeating yourself now. If you have no salient criterion for personhood then you have no basis for participation in this discussion.
Oh oh course travvy.i wake up everyday and see if I feel my kids are people. Makes it hard when they ask for food, cause you know, why do things need food? When they were in my belly, I just "knew" when it was real. Still waiting 4 u to explain it.
You said that personhood is conferred by fiat of the mother. Stands to reason if you can give it you can take it away. See how absurd your position is? I think that even Aime can see that your position is ridiculous. Still no salient criterion I see.
Oh I see, so YOURE going to give it or take it away, huh? Yeah that makes sense in travvy land, not the real world.The life or lack of which is in my private life is absolutely none of your business.The buck stops there.End war,if you care about life
Truth is that it isn't up for anyone to decide by fiat. Science tells us that at conception we have the creation of unique individualized DNA. I kinda like it when you call me pet-names Lezzie- what are you single, divorced, widowed, married?
Really? That's what every Republican elected since 2010 has done. The men in robes and monkey suits have decreed that women do not have the right to self determination. Treat them with derision. Kind of like you have treated me. Surely u expect same?
We don't have a relationship travvy. We don't even reside on same plane. And I've had run ins w your type way too often around here. It's unbelievable to me this Ignorance still lives. Separate America!
Oh trav, trav....u know you'd never stoop to embarrass yourself w someone like me. One who believes in the laws of nature, has respect for women, and believes in them. Further, someone who's actually experienced what you pretend to know about! Oh no.
Travis, I've already said I don't think there's 1 moment/event that makes a person. It's something more than a cluster of cells but happens before birth (imo). But ppl have their own ideas and I let them.
Then I don't think you have a very good idea of what personhood entails if you don't know what the criterion for personhood is. Maybe you think that personhood is conferred when someone "feels like it"? waiting for any reason why you disagree w/ me
Do you vehemently oppose the killing of all animals and insects and plants and every single living organism on the planet with unique DNA? If that's all that's required for personhood then I hope you've never stepped on an ant. Because murder.
Couldn't resist alliteration. Your language alludes to moral and mental life, but as a criterion for personhood you must point at the creation of unique blueprints, not any arbitrarily selected stage of progress along that development.
You are wrong. It most def goes in stages and any woman whose been pregnant knows it. That's why Christians women can abort, because they know it's just a collection of cells. Unique? Yeah OK, but certainly not a baby.You are arguing from guesswork.
But any stage of development selected is going to be arbitrary. Did you decide your kids are still persons this morning or did you abort them with a kitchen knife in their sleep? Who is saying that the embryo is a baby? No. Person? Yes.
Person, no! Let me ask you. When you eat your scrambled eggs, do you say "I just ate a chicken"? Or do you know it's not a chicken? But it is a fertilized egg. Same thing. To thinking individuals, not reactionaries. Common sense. Not religion.
Are you going to care for kids who are already here? Do you want to pay more taxes to support free public education, support for unwed mothers, free child care, free all inclusive medical care for children and pregnant/recovering women?
Catherine, God said He knew Jeremiah before he was born so that blows your soul theory, doesn't it and Eric, I do not know what bible you study from if indeed you do and if you are a pastor you should read the rules for that. All my best.
That only brings up another can of worms. I no more believe that the bible is 'the word' of god; than I believe you have the right to force your harmful, narrow-minded and divisive views onto me. Expand your brain, and one more time - READ the ???
There are millions of babies who had no right to speak out and say, "I want to live!" I prefer adoption to abortion since so many great couples are waiting for a baby to adopt. Abortion not only ends a baby's life but the women who've had abortions suffer from emotional problems all of their lives. A mother and her baby's heart strings are attached. I know women who have had abortions over the years who suffer from chronic depression. I just don't think abortion is the answer. Why not put the baby up for adoption instead? At least then mom is innocent and has no blood on her hands.
The woman has emotional scars because Christians insist that she has done something wrong and make her feel guilty. That religion runs on guilt, it is such a crying shame. But, WHY do Christan women who believe like you CHOOSE abortion? That is the ?
Quakers (American Friends Service Committee); Lutheran Church in America; Presbyterian Church; Reorganized LDS; Unitarian Universalist; United Church of Christ; United Methodist Church; the Episcopal Church; the Christian Church and more
Leslie, I lost a set of twins in a miscarriage - and you're right. Should we be angry at 'God' for 'murdering' our babies? That is a very good point. I bet Christians have a perfectly logical explanation for it. I, for one, can't wait to hear it.
Sorry to hear that Catherine. My daughter had a hard time w it. Life is not for the faint of heart. And Christians really have no answer for anything. They can only be responsible for themselves, and lead by example. Actions, not words.
Thanks. I had a hard time, too - was depressed for months, despite my views. Abortion is often a hard choice because it is made to end a SWEET yet overwhelming life commitment before it begins. But, that is the choice many make for holy wrong reasons
I don't ever think it's a wrong reason. It's her life. No one else has to live it, why does anyone think they have the right to tell her anything?? It's egotistical GALL. I'll fight anyone on this issue, Pope himself! Snip the peepee if care so much!
You missed my point because there is only so much room. I meant that Most Christan women choose abortion for the 'wrong holy reasons' - guilt, shame, rejection, etc. 'Regular' women make the choice for themselves without as much pressurized judgement
Oh yes.That's even sadder.I hate that so many women go through life with their head down.This is flipping 2016. I cannot BELIEVE we are still fighting this fight.It's medieval.Meanwhile, it's become normal for men to take a pill so they can have sex!
No one has responded to this part of the question... Is 'God' a murder when a woman miscarries a baby? Should we be angry with the Almighty when this happens? Some people believe this sometimes happens because the BABY is making a choice...
Just because one says they are affiliated with a faith does not mean they are genuine. Lot's of people profess to be Catholic but never go to church or pray or even open a bible. Abortion is used because women who have sex (often unwed) and don't want to be inconvenienced by having a child. So they take the easy way out so they can party on as usual. Others may have other reasons, like the baby won't make it to birth anyway, or is horribly disfigured. But then again, it's not their place to decide who lives and who dies--that is for God only. There's always adoption!
And yeah, if you condone killing a developing baby, it being brutally murdered before it even has a chance to live, then yes, you are heartless in that aspect.
I say bombing it to death, burning it with white phosphorus disfiguring it with depleted uranium is heartless.And by it, I mean a real living breathing thinking human, not a fetus being formed. Women have rights-your approval not necessary, nor asked
I know it when I feel it. And it takes a while. Just ask women have done all thru out time....you should be asking when did abortion become a crime? Because god does it all the time. So how bad can it be? Really. Use some sense, not wild ideology.
It's not emotion, it's nature. I've had 3 pregnancies. I just knew. And I would love to know why god abortion(nature) is accepted, but woman doing it is a crime. Female cats let born kittens die if they not right.Males stay out of it. Learn something
Abortion is a natural occurrence. It happens all the time, with or without the intervention of man. The fallacy IS bringing your laws into it. It's a private matter, not an exercise in crime and punishment. When do we make war illegal? I'd be for it!
You're right, Travis - just because something is 'natural' doesn't necessarily mean that it is good. Pro-choice folks do not believe that abortion is murder. The fallicy is you forcing your beliefs onto us via a law designed to impose those beliefs.
Glad to hear you agree. But you're pretending that you aren't forcing your view either. If the official position is that abortion is legal, then the official position is that the fetus isn't a person. You're advocating your view too.
Yes, and you'll notice why I am within my question: shrill, hysterical Christians accusing me of murdering babies - and wanting an OLD, needed law changed - while their religion contributes to the most 'baby deaths'. Fix Christianity: less abortions
I don't need criteria for 'personhood'. I simply do not believe that the soul of an unborn baby enters the body until after 3 months - sometimes long after. Many people believe something similar. Your belief should not supercede laws for choice.
then you don't know what a person is. 3 months is an arbitrary criterion. Why not 5 years after birth? Your belief should not supersede basic human rights. "Don't believe that slavery is moral? Don't own slaves then" that's the logic of your argument
To a certain extent that is true. There are still parts of the world that have slaves and I can't do anything about it. The US fought a civil war over that issue with the Christian ideal that slavery was ordained by god on the frontlines. They lost.
Nope. I am done talking to you, Travis. YOU are EXACTLY the type of person that I wrote this post for. I know many good Christians; and most don't realize the affects their unbalanced views have on others - and can change. People like you are stone.
Choice is choice. We all live by and answer for our choices. It's odd that you can't live with that. Because you should look on my twitter feed. All the death going on in Yemen, Syria, Palestine. But thing that concerns you is women! Jealous? Or what
Being affiliated with a religion does not mean that a person has a personal relationship with God. In our society, children are not taught to have integrity, which to me means living according to one's conscience. Rather, people are given the impression that everything is relative, including right and wrong. If we do not value human life, then what do we value?
1st set of statistics in the question is all women who consider themselves to be affiliated with a religion; the 2nd set is women who actively attend church - yes, there is a difference. So, only a few 'devout' Christians should make laws for us all?
Another good point. Fix your religion - THEN you can start on the rest of the world. Because your definition of 'sin' and my definition do not agree - not even sort of. IE: *I* consider people like you to be 'evil' - if there is such a thing.
Here's a thought: Maybe it's some of the adherents and not the thing that they are supposed to adhere to... The mass murder advocate calling the person against mass-murder "evil" is the cherry on top of this hypocrisy sundae.
I've been through this situation with my friends - too many of them. I'm not evil. You are evil for your harmful dogma and not listening to the truth I am trying to get across to you about WHY Christians choose abortion so often. It's heartbreaking.
Yes, its awful the place religion puts women in. Always subjugated. Always lesser than. Oh sure--they love their mommas, but ONLY as momma. What about before they were momma? What about their soul-desires-dreams? Caretaker and help-meet is role.OBEY.
Obviously, given that atheists comprise about 5% of the population and everyone else has probably attended a church while growing up, and consequently counts that particular religion as an "affiliation," it would make sense that less atheists are getting abortions than everyone else for the sheer reason that there are less atheists in the U.S. than there are people who are "affiliated" with a religion, whether they are religious or not---and many of them are not. As for the thing of hiding a pregnancy out of shame, that isn't accurate at all. This isn't the 1950's. The majority of women get abortions because it is convenient and they don't want a baby right now. Shame of sin probably happens 1% of the time, if even that. The "shame" idea is something that atheist prefer to believe, but which has no merit as an argument, since that reason is actually quite rare. As for pro-life individuals, it is there right to believe in the sanctity of life just as it is your right to believe whatever you believe.
...so if you're daughter got pregnant before marriage by a guy she doesn't love, it wouldn't bother you at all? And you can confirm that all other religious households wouldn't be bothered if it happened to them?
I'm on phone, can't copy, but just google "abortion restrictions since 2010". It actually started in 2000. Operation Rescue told Bush he owed them for putting him in office. Religious right not above bribery. Elected Bush, removed Howard Stern.
They sure do not list them, they just make a claim to further their agenda -- Guttmacher Institute Women's rights Organization The writing on this does not delineate. One would need formal legislative analysis training to make sense of it.
Guttmacher states: "The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby (73%); that she did not want to be a single mother
Read the vanishing abortion clinic, Bloomberg. And savvy, please tell me why this medical procedure a woman wants is any of your business? Its been deemed a right under the constitution, and we used to be protected under 4th amendment.not youbusiness
That's exactly what I'm saying. It's not your business unless you want one, and then good luck getting one, depending on where you live. It's a medical procedure, wholly between woman and doctor. No church allowed.
It is the business of nations, actually. You act like you're trying to get an abortion right now and you can't find a clinic. Just look at China---13 million abortions per year has backfired, and now they're having serious financial problems.
You forget they forced people to have abortions.1 child rule policy.Some people here want to force women to give birth. 2 sides of same coin.And China had economic reasons for it.Here, it's ideology. We are multi-nation/religion.Must be secular gvt.
China's economic problems are the result of the abortions. Not enough young people to work and to create new innovations. No nation should become blasé about abortion & no one is forcing women not to have abortions in this country.
Sorry nice lady. I was born after my my mom came to my Dad (a doctor) for an abortion. I ain't perfect but I have four perfect children. Yes breathing life into this world is a wonderful thing. And being adopted I can attest to it.
savvydating, as a woman, HOW can you be so out-of-touch and comprised of 'wishful thinking'? 'Affiliated' religious women include teens and single daughters of Christan fanatics - they are not so far removed from you and are in your sights every day.
Woman can't control their bodies then yes they should have to give birth if it does not endanger their lives. There are waiting lists wanting these precious little babies. They deserve that...at least.
Again, REread the question... This is not the same debate about abortion that we've always had. The question is NOT whether abortion should be legal or illegal. It is WHY do so many women who believe life happens at conception chose abortion?
Catherine, I have simply stated some plain facts here. If you take issue with facts, that is your perogative. If you want to target Christians, that is also your choice. If I see that someone has construed the truth, I'll correct it.
Facts? No one is pushing women to have abortions in this country. Yes, you are right. They are trying to force women to give birth against their will. That is what I'm fighting. Self-preservation in the face of religious dogma and rule.
What if the married couple doesn't want kids? Signing a piece of paper doesn't make one capable of caring for an unwanted child, not to mention it's easy enough to get a divorce these days, it's no guarantee that both parents step up/stick around.
savvy-China set a limit on # of children. That's not happening here. Different situation altogether & I'm not laughing at abortion, I'm laughing at the notion that ppl should be forced to have kids "for the nation"
Savvy, you didn't state 'facts' you stated your erroneous perception - and that is SO wrong and harmful for you to do. Your attitude combined with shame is one of the reasons why Christian girls HIDE this 'sin' in the first place. Wake up!!
Our soul teaches us when we are doing wrong that is why there is shame which is a good thing because after awhile many (like many here) block this out just like people with no conscience,cold hearted, whatever you call it. Some call it rights.
Yes, that is part of this question, aside from why Christian women use abortion the most - why do Christians feel such a need to judge when Jesus commanded you NOT to do so? Who do you think you are calling me cold-hearted and without conscience?!!
I stated facts. Period. The issue here is that some want to defend the destruction of a fetus and blame it on the 95% of the population who might be affiliated with a religion, as if that makes the other 5% more righteous for aborting their babies.
That is not the issue at all. The issue is Christians trying to tell me what to do in my private life, against the Constitution, liberty and just plain respect. You have every right to your beliefs, you have zero right to force them on me. Simple.
savvy, I think you are confused. Opinions are not facts. I gave a source for real statistics - where are you getting your 'facts' from? Read this and tell me that this stuff does not happen in your church. http://hub.me/ak9PR
First of all most Americans are Christian so that might explain that if what you say is true. Why, is because the government encourages and pays for it in most cases and then there is the ones waiting to buy baby body parts that keep it going too. Why do these clinics not have classes discouraging abortion? Strange isn't it? Most Americans are against abortion but are still forced to fund it and I hope the next administration will completely separate birth control and health issues for women instead of tying it all together to get what they want out of it. Surely they look to profit and have no compassion for these women or they would warn them of all the consequences emotionally and physically of pulling life from a womb and destroying it.
The government does not 'encourage' people to have abortions; and most Americans are NOT against it. You've been listening to someone; and you need to be thinking for yourself. Try rereading the question, answers and responses again - and listen.
Oh yes, can't go a day without buying me some baby parts. Completely not for medical research that only researchers are allowed to buy, I just buy them for the giggles thanks to the abortions the gov isnt allowed to fund.
Actually, the number of Americans who identify themselves as being neutral or not-religious is growing. I imagine that trend (documented by the Pew Foundation) comes from people turned off by the hateful stances of the rabidly religious right.
I tell you where I got them within the question - and you can do a search. This question is ALSO based on the experiences I have had with my Christian friends. I wish people would STOP dismissing that part because that is the MOST IMPORTANT part.
Abortion is not just a thing for American christian women. It seems to be part of society all over the world. Except in a few cases of rape, I have never understood why some one would get pregnant, and then decide to terminate it. The means by which one gets pregnant is known to all women. In fact there are numerous ways to prevent unwanted pregnancies, including the emergency contraceptive. So how does a pregnancy skip all these measures and end up in a situation that requires abortion? I think women have to do a little bit more in order to bring down cases of abortion, because it can be a life altering experience.
While I agree that everyone should be using birth control, it's not 100% effective. I've known multiple women who got preg using BC. They don't take emerg contraception b/c they don't know when theirs hasn't worked. Will always happen to some.
Guess who also knows how to get pregnant?Men.Guess who usually wants the sex,even if by force?Men.Guess who can have foolproof way of ending abortions?Men.Vasectomies as birth control.100% effective.Do it NOW.IF that's what this is about,wich it isnt
Pathetically asked question. Seems like you are watching a lot of anti Christian propaganda. I don't know Christians who act as you and some of the people responding here are saying. Muslims are anti abortion too, but, I noticed that you are not upset with the fact that not only do they think that you are heartless, but, they think that you are worthless.
I have NEVER heard a Christian say that anyone who murders an unborn child is "heartless". I do here them saying that its wrong, which, if you put propaganda aside and admit the truth, killing a baby is wrong. We really need more people who are willing to take responsibility for their actions instead of, as you have done, get mad at people who point out what is wrong with it. I don't care that you are sick of being reminded of the wrong-doing of murdering, I guess I care about the victims who cannot answer back, "well, I am sick of being killed before I get a chance."
Heartless & worse. This question is VALID and based on EXPERIENCE with Christian peers and statistics. It is scary how small-minded and assuming so many of you are. What a crying shame that so many girls have to live with such ignorance and misog
What is a shame is so many kids having parents or teachers like you instead of bringing them up with morals and conscience. Parents who misbehave in front of their kids and show no good examples but have them having sex before they even become teens.
Based on the topic of this question, you would be referring to Christian parents raising their kids without morals or conscience? Every one of my Christian friends who chose abortion LIVED a full Christian life with their devoted parents.
This is a very simple question. They are not really Christian. One does not murder an innocent child in the womb, the very womb that God has placed that child in. They do not know who God and they use this as a 'label' but this has nothing to do with God. You can stand in the garage all day long and call yourself a car. It doesn't ever make you a car...not even a matchbox.
because what is called christian today is not what it is in scripture. Today it means a "church" member. But it was originally a name for disciples of Christ. A disciple of Christ says and does ALL Christ says to do because he believes Jesus is God's leader. Church christians do what the man/men leading them believes so there are very few true disciples of Christ because the people have been taught to follow these apostate men. ask the average church member what their religion is they will say i am a baptist or lutheran or the name of their particular "church" Jesus says if your love for me is not so much greater than that for ANYTHING OR ANYONE else that your love for the other looks more like hate, then YOU CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE. The "church" system has destroyed what was Christianity and turned it into christianity, a work of man with out the influence of God. Only those that have cast aside the teachings of men and have learned TRUTH from the Holy Spirit of God who was sent to bring us All truth and follow Christ the Son of God, who is the Lord of this final age of man, have remained true to His description of what a disciple of Christ must be. Wake up people, repent, be born again. be baptizes in water, in the Holy Spirit, and follow Him only as led by the Holy Spirit. John 3:5-8 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
From 'Nicodemus Comes to Jesus in the Night' (1/4 way down) thru next 12 headings in my 1st spotlight article, the harmful view of the pagan church's 'salvation' concept within Christianity is debunked. Reason for God's pagan 'bridge' toward end.
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