Why is the Pope getting involved in US Politics by sparring with Donald Trump?
Saying Trump isn't a Christian is a very decisive statement
You kind of have to look at this from a larger picture than just the quote. And if I am not mistaken it was not directly saying "Donald Trump is not a Christian" - it was saying that the United States must have open borders and anyone who thinks otherwise is not a Christian. A small distinction but worthy of politicians and the Pope is one, no doubt.
If you do not believe in one of the accepted catechisms is essence you are not a Christian by Catholic standards. Note clearly that is a capital C. catholic church (small c) means universal belief in Christ. Some folks who are from certain denominations and baptized there cannot take communion in a Catholic church because....
So is Billy Graham a Christian to the Pope?
One has to remember that Catholicism is communistic. I do not mean that at all derogatorily. A Utopian society would be communistic. A rich Catholic must give until it hurts so that the poor are provided for. (too bad the mechanics do not work that way but the effort is made kind of)
No I am not Catholic. And neither is Donald Trump. In some views like the Popes that pretty much makes us protestant and the bottom line is still that the Catholic church kind of thinks less of us as possible Christians.
(I do not dismiss concordances here - but)
The Catholic church is not "Communistic." The church merely believes in helping the poor. That was the essence of the Pope's response. And frankly, he's right about Trump. Anybody who acts like Trump doesn't have a Christian bone in his body.
Wow you and the Pope judge others beliefs. Well you are in good company.
Helping the poor, you got to be kidding. The catholic church gets billions of dollars a year off the backs of the poor. the church is filthy rich and the poor never see any of it.The catholic church is the only one that has it's own bank.
Savvy, so what you are saying is that to be a Christian you have to act a certain way? Only God knows ones heart and no matter how "Christian" one acts none of that makes a person a Christian. Christians are still sinners, everyone.
I don't trust the Catholic church and I sure as heck don't trust the pope or anything that comes out of his mouth.
Thank you, Eric. TSAD, are you saying you like Trump? I am saying he's a jerk. As for the Pope, he was asked a general question about borders and he answered. Look up PBS News Hour. They covered it in detail.
The Catholic Church is by no means communistic, it's hierarchical. A true communistic structure has no leader this is the opposite of the Church of Rome.
As Trump is concerned. He's a power maniac. And those are dangerous man.
SD Like Trump?that's a relative question,over any Democrat for pres I like him.My point was because someone doesn't act like they are a Christian doesn't mean they aren't&who are we to make that judgment?Ask the thief on the cross next toJesus
TSAD. I am not saying that Christians should never get angry, etc. Merely expressing my dislike for Trump because he supported Hillary, Kerry and partial-birth abortion. He is not a Republican, in my opinion.
But you said he doesn't have a Christian bone in his body, that's a judgement u really can't make.I agree with you although who hasn't flip flopped.Thing is before entering politics Trump was a pragmatic businessman,he may now be principled
TSAD. Yes, I did make a judgment and I don't apologize for that. It is necessary to make value judgments on anyone who is running for president. Trump is not principled, All one has to do is listen to him speak for 3 minutes or less to know that.
Not talking about value judgments,I'm saying know one knows a person's heart,only God so when it comes to whether he is a Christian or not who are you(or I)to make that judgment?Where do you draw the line?Must he have your amt of good works?
KingdomCome, your statement is false. At 1.4 billion in donations for the poor, Catholic Charities is one of the largest charitable organizations in the U.S.http://www.forbes.com/companies/catholic-charities-usa/
Lets assume for the moment you are correct. What does the Catholic church do with the rest of the 315 BILLION dollars a year.
I know KingdomCome, they used some of it to build a wall, with armed guards. Are there any bridges at the vatican? hmmmm maybe the Pope should be thinking about building bridges and not just living behind a wall, a wall with armed guards?
savvy- It's most difficult for the poor to get treatment free at catholic hospitals. Catholic hosiptals total revenue about $ 251 BILLION a year.
www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/12 -catholic-hospitals-arent-doing-much- for-the-poor That only the U.S.
Instead of concerns about walls maybe the Pope should deal with something he could actually solve.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleani … iapas.html
Because he is a busybody. Seriously, some people recognize him as a world leader, and any world leader is going to have an opinion on whom he or she can work with. I don't think the Pope thinks Donald Trump would be a President who would duly honor him with compromises, so he needs to make sure that the Catholics don't vote for Trump. Therefore he will judge whether or not Trump is a Christian.
The religious rhetoric coming from one so prejudiced in religion should be relegated to the Peanut Gallery. Heck, by his standards, I'm not a Christian. (How's that for political correctness?) He can criticize all he wants, but his opinion on our borders shouldn't be any influence on our President's actions on national security. We, not he, are the ones who have to live in this country. He lives in a glass house with a steel cage around it (figuratively speaking), therefore, he doesn't have to worry about everyday personal safety. The rest of us are not so privileged.
+1,000,000,000,000!!! The hypocrisy of the Roman Catholic Church is beyond astounding. Popes NEVER DO THAT WALK. All they can do is DO THAT TALK, just saying!!!! Continue MizBJ!!!!
This comment does not depict the actual conversation that took place. This comment is a prejudicial opinion which has no basis in fact whatsoever.
I don't think the Pope is out to fight Trump nor messing up with US politics. He was asked for his thoughts. And the biased media pursued his statement like hounds. He just came from Mexico and we all can guess what that government and people were saying. I am confident when he is well-rested, the Pope will be out with clarifications.
"A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian," Francis said in answer to a specific question about Trump's views. "This is not in the Gospel."
Above is the actual quote from the Pope. Google pictures of wall around the Vatican. I'm guessing the wall is 30-40 feet high. The Pope is a fine one to talk about walls as he lives inside them himself.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/18/pope- … sive-wall/
Why is the Pope doing this who knows the politics behind so many of his statements. His statements are not scriptural but his opinion. He seems to have forgotten the walls he lives behind. He seems to have forgotten that Jerusalem had a wall around it. He seem to have forgotten that the temple when it was still standing had a wall around it.
Walls and bridges both serve the purpose they were made for, the problem is that knowing when to have a wall or a bridge is out of the Popes paygrade.
there are born again Christians who are still sitting in Mexican jail cells, because they refused to convert to Roman Catholicism! I have not heard the Roman Catholic Pope Francis utter a single word about this.
That nonsense is coming to a city near you, in the future. Convert or else!
If history serves me correctly the Catholic church is responiable for the deaths of 50 "MILLION" people during the dark ages. That don't sound "christian" to me. I wonder what the pope at the time thought about that. Hummmm.
Okay, did you know that the Crusades was actually a response to radical Muslim takeover? The Left would have you believe that Christians are evil. I doubt somehow that the number is 50 million.
Trump can't bad mouth the Pope, there are too many Catholic votes he is concerned about, and the Pope knows it so he can imply all he wants to.
I don't know. He preaches not to judge and then judges. Also, the Vatican has walls all around it. So I guess it is non-Christian too. Let me make this clear. People who want strengthened borders are NOT intolerant to people from different countries coming into the US. They are intolerant to illegal aliens. It is a slap in the face to American citizens and legal immigrants (who did things the right way) to have people sneak in the US and get free stuff. That's like having to let people cut in front of you in line and then be told that they deserve it. Another thing that I want to point out is that Trump, for all his faults, wants to make American safe. He, and a lot of other people, do not want unvetted people, possibly terrorists, coming to this country. When the Muslims take over, and they plan to take the Vatican, and impose Sharia Law on the land, I don't know what to tell the Pope. He seems like a nice guy, but something is off about him. He made a video saying that all religions worship the same god, which is against scripture. To quote the pope himself, "Who am I to judge?" Remember, he did say that.
You know the media has blown this out of the water misquoting the Pope and falsifying the headline, but then that IS WHAT THEY DO! No surprise.
CNN - Pope suggests Trump 'is not Christian'
(CNN)Thrusting himself into the combative 2016 presidential campaign, Pope Francis said Thursday that GOP front-runner Donald Trump "is not Christian" if he calls for the deportation of undocumented immigrants and pledges to build a wall between the United States and Mexico.
Is that what the Pope said??? I don't think so, the Pope NEVER said that Trump was not Christian and I quote the Pope who said this to journalists who asked his opinion on Trump's proposals to halt illegal immigration.:
"A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not the gospel,"
Does Trump think only about building walls? CNN wants you to think so but tell me who knows what Trump is THINKING about? Maybe God does but I am sure certainly no one else knows if he is or isn't thinking about building bridges.
And if he is THINKING about building bridges (which what politician doesn't) well then according to the Pope it sounds like it is OK to think about building walls. This is a simple logical inference from what the Pope actually said, and therefore he never said or even implied that Trump is not a Christian. He merely said anyone who thinks about building walls only and not building bridges isn't Christian.
How does that even apply to Trump? Does the Pope know what he is thinking? No, and neither does anyone else.
What the Pope said was rhetorical and I believe even he didn't mean that Trump fulfilled those conditions and therefore isn't Christian, but meant more like a warning that someone like Trump should ALSO be thinking about building bridges, and Trump isn't stupid, a smart businessman like him knows the value of building bridges.
Bottom line the media is to blame for this fiasco although I suspect the Pope worded what he said shrewdly knowing how the media would spin it. Whatever his comment was meant to do it made a point not an accusation at Trump though the Pope had to know the media would make it an accusation at Trump, unless he was born yesterday (probably not of a virgin? :-).
"A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not the gospel,"
Francis said in answer to a specific question about Trump's views.
No kidding, exactly what I already said. What is your point? Is that all you read? or did you read my answer at all? looks like you didn't even.
Well, I read your answer, and I still say who cares what the Pope thinks. He lives behind walls in his on empire and doesn't have to live in this country. Trump shouldn't care either.
I agree with you on that Miz Be but when you say who cares what the Pope says, the obvious answer is THE LIBERAL MEDIA because they look for anything they can spin into a lie to use to smear their opposition just as they did here.
MzB & T....Really! Who does CARE what the Pope says? Not I. I've had more than enough bosses, authority figures & leaders to last forever. I hope no one minds if I just use my own brain & abilities from here on in!
This pope is a socialist, and he's seeking to use religion to promote his politics, in this case, open borders.
The irony is that Democrats don't see a problem with religion in politics, as long as it endorses their views.
Bush was a strong believer and he acted and used his believe to justify his war in Iraq. He saw it as a crusade. thanks to him over a 100.000 innocent people are bombed and murdered. That's what you get if religion comes into politics.
False. The decision to go to war was a unilateral decision involving the UN and Democrats. Saddam had broken his treaty with the UN numerous times, thus the decision to enforce war. All parties had the same information about WMD, as well.
Absolutely the truth SD,&when BO took over he continued the policies Bush had in place despite that he opposed them before getting elected.Democrats always want to blame anybody else for their own behavior. can never even share responsibility
What does Bush or Obama have to do with the current question?
True, TSAD. And for anyone interested in the truth, UN Resolution 1441 ordered S. Hussein to comply by 12/07/2002 or "face serious consequences."
Well Ralph, some people have what is called Bush derangement syndrome like the person who had to bring up Bush, best address your comment at him.
Maybe it is God using the Pope to warn America from making a mistake of historic proportions that would have catastrophic results for the entire world.
Maybe it'sSatan using thePope to make people think it'sChristian to have open borders&invite drug traffickers,rapist &other criminals to illegally enterAmerica&help destroy it.A wall is a mistake of historic proprtions?Tell that tothe vat
I have been to the Vatican several times. I have never seen a more walled in place in my life. Maybe it is to keep the Cardinals in like a prison. But it looks like a Medieval prison on the outside. The Pope is definitely hypocrisy on this one.
Just a thought-
Maybe the Pope didn't mean it in a very literal way. Maybe he meant that the U.S should not exclude everyone from their country like Donald Trump suggests. Not actually build bridges. Be more open is what he's trying to say, maybe.
I know that when I give my answer, there will be hundreds, if not THOUSANDS, of people condemning me for what I believe...
But I really do not care what people think.
The Catholic religion/faith, is in my opinion, the oldest & largest cult in the world.
they have their own rules/laws of the church; they tell their people to confess to the pastor(The catholic pastor is called father, but I refuse to call anyone but GOD "father") not to GOD, you are to treat the pope & all the others like they were gods or something...
The pope has no more authority to judge Mr.Trump's faith that you, me or anyone else born on this planet in the last 1000 yrs.
Everything the catholic church has done since the beginning of time, they will have to answer to one day.
Ever heard of "JUDGEMENT DAY"? it is coming folks...ready or not, like it or not, every single person except Jesus Christ will one day bow before GOD & answer for all the wickedness they have done. Myself included.
All I can say is, the sooner the better, I shall welcome him with open arms.
C true that the Catholicism has doctrines shown not to be supported by scripture,probably most egregious of which is their doctrine that anyone believing in sole fide is anathema,in the pews they don't even know it though&many r Christians.
I'm not the Pope's defense attorney nor spokesperson. I'm actually not even a member of his flock. However, a simple common sense response to your question is:
The Pope can hardly being accused of "getting involved." He was asked a question or encouraged to offer his opinion. He offered up the only opinion that the world would or should EXPECT from the POPE. It's his JOB to represent the Christian world.....not side with Donald Trump.
It also seems like a stretch to use the term "sparring." The Pope did not speak directly to Trump, one on one, face to face. There was no back & forth interaction between the two men, thus, NO sparring.
From what is apparent, his own Catholic fans don't even listen to him nor follow his rules. The reality is, if the Pope wants Christians "To not build walls but to build bridges" for illegals & ISIS to cross so they can kill every INFIDEL in sight, I suggest he tear down the enormous wall around his comfy Vatican and build a bridge for ISIS leading directly to his elaborate HOME in Rome. I wonder what he'd say about that?
I think Pope has no interest to interfere in the US politics. He has just given his statement according to the activities of Donald J. Trump. Please note that Pope didn't utter any negative words about other contestants in the US president election. As Trump's activities does not support by the Christian religion or faith, Pope boldly said that he is not a Christian and as a religious leader it is his duty to tell others that the Christian religion doesn't allow anybody to hurt other communities.
Misplaced priority is when religious authority brings politics into religion.
1. I have to vehemently disagree with Mr. Dierker that the Catholic Church is "Communistic." It has (in theory), a "supreme leader," but that's about it. Even the doctrine of infallibility is waning.
The Church is monarchial in nature, and strongly anti-communist. Yes, there were Catholic liberation theologians in the Americas during the 70s/80s. But that's long over. Although it administers to the poor around the world, it is far from utopian. Anyone who grew up Catholic would laugh at that statement. A rich Catholic does not have to give at all. There is no pressure to tithe (we don't use that word anyway). One is expected to give to the Church if they can. My wife and I get envelopes at the beginning of the year, but that's it.
2. For the Pope, inclusion is important. Regardless of my feelings about the border, we have to be humane and it's always good to have a respected person, regardless of their religion, remind us of our shared humanity.
I feel weird defending the Church, but I must clarify comments about it from those who never experienced it.
I agree the Pope said nothing wrong&he didn't say Trump isn't Christian.The media has said that he did because the media journalists,liberal atheists to start with,have an agenda to say anything to smear anyone who opposes the Democrats.
You take communism to mean the arch enemy USSR and China. I meant it to be an expression of communal religious treatment of wealth. I think the vogue term now is religious communism. In Peter's time just communal living and sharing.
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