Why Does God Allow Us To Suffer When Going Through Trials?

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tim kennerposted 14 years ago
Suffering draws us closer to God, God could say the word and all our toubles would go away. It's through struggles that are true self comes into light and we either turn to God and trust in Him or go the other way and get drowned in defeat and discouragement. Why do you think God allows terrible things to come upon us, Is it because He is cruel or is it to see where are hearts are at and what we will do if hard time befall us?
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  The Ropeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, don't buy into that type of god.
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  Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Why does God allow some people to suffer their entire lives though they've repeatedly shown they have a firm belief in him?
  
  Why do some people cause pain and suffering to others yet lived charmed lives themselves?
  
  And let's not forget the "why do bad things happen to good people?" question.
  
  I don't think the answer to any of those has to do with God wanting to know where our hearts are.
  
  I think life is just unfair and that's all there is to it.
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have been really going through a dark side of the moon as it pertains to spiritual warfare and by no means would i consider myself special or think God is cruel and agree with you that it has to with the heart and His eternal plans for us
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you are sadly missing out on an opportunity to become a better person. Turning to a non-existent god in times of trouble (as many do) merely holds you back from developing as a person.
  
  Deal with these issues your own self and do not imagine there is some one else there "allowing" you to suffer. Suffering is part of life - do not fool yourself it is anything but.
  
  It is not the suffering that is important but how we deal with it. Some people never sugffer a day in their life, others suffer constantly. The fact that you choose to blame a god for this suffering is odd to me. It is what it is. You either learn to cope and grow - or you do not.
  
  I hope you can learn to deal with it and grow.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where is your proof that God causes suffering? BTW, I have experienced extreme suffering in my life, but it did not draw me closer to God. In fact, it made me understand the real truth-that God is manufactured by our imaginations.
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not causes, allows. Nothing happens aprt from His allowing it to. I appreciate the fact that suffering in as much as it pertains to me has drawn me closer to him. If things were awesome all the time I know in my case i would drift away.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  God is omnipotent. You make him sound passive. He either causes everything to happen, or he is not God. If he is allowing suffering to happen, then who is causing the suffering?
  I know-SATAN! Your God could stop Satan at anytime, but choses to let him do whatever he wants. Does this really make any sense? Maybe your God should stand up to Satan.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  get it right: two words: FREE WILL.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  THAT ANSWERS NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  That might make sense to you, but that's still nonsensical. Your representation of God is foolish beyond belief! Can't you see that some mentally derainged, power hungry psychopaths from the distant past wrote this {devine} crap. It's too obvious.
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  classicalgeekposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We were all granted free will. This includes the freedom to associate with those who would hurt us, and the freedom for people to hurt other people. If God intervenes to protect some, others are spared the consequences of their decisions. Like every loving parent in the world, God must allow us to learn by experience, choose to grow and develop in character (or not), and sometimes that means letting your children discover for themselves that if they play with fire, they will get burned.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  [/b]
  
  i have no idea.
  
  there's a difference between struggling through adversity to learn life lessons & build character and another to slowly starve to death in a land of famine. how does the starving person "learn" from that or "become a better person"?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe the lesson there is not for the starving person to learn, but to teach to those who are materially better off.
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  Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That would have to be one heckuva lesson.
  
  It would have to be one heckuva god too.
  
  "Sorry starving person, you gotta die cuz I wanna teach Mr. Welloff a lesson."
  
  No wonder Satan gets converts.
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  quicksandposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  makes sense although I "refuse" to agree!
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  i'm sorry i know you were being serious but that actually made me laugh. there are "materially better off" people all over the planet who don't give a rat's a$$ about starving people.
  
  that's like a parent keeping an emaciated kid chained in a closet starving to death in order to show their fatter, unhungry kids to appreciate all the twinkies they have.
  
  oh boy.
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  thevoiceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  this the problem when this childish fighting over choice just feeds hate of life
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Study a refiner's fire.
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you, will do!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tim, He 'allows' because we do.
  what man sows, he reaps. what he asks is given to him.
  some might say, "Who would ask for trouble?". Everyone does. The thing we think on the most, comes upon us. For as a man sees/thinks is how he will be.
  all knowledge has been given to us, nothing secret, no thing hidden.
  this is the Covenant. With Him, In Him, Through Him.
  
  why man labors in vane is the true question.
  like a woman giving birth, these troubles man brings upon himself. It is his free will in motion and the fruit of his own labor. we labor in mind, when we already know. we labor in spirit, because we already know that Spirit.
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well said, just what I needed to hear, kinda against the ropes and really needed that, thanks.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Suffering through things will cause us to drop or let go of those things that cause us to suffer. For instance, if we put our hand in a fire and get burned, we will suffer through until the burn is healed, but we will not put our hand in it again.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  turn up the soil of your heart, remove the stumbling block. the field, in the cold of winter or the heat of drought, will be cleaned and those things dried up. the land will build its character, prove its strength/perseverance, in readiness for planting. when harvest comes, it will bring honor to many.
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  caravalhophotoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's Karma...learn from your trials
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  bojanglesk8posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because there is no kind God.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nor any other for that matter.
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  Beth100posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you really think that it is God who allows terrible things to happen? Perhaps it is the person who allows it to for varied reasons. Without life's lessons, we, as individuals, would not learn, grow, change and adapt our lives. Non-adapting living organisms will become extinct over time. God is not cruel, unkind or uncaring. We, as a people, have chosen to be or to follow one of many paths that were presented.
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Pearldiverposted 14 years ago
Clearly You Will Become Closer.... If You Direct Your Question at the Relevant Party.... Don't you think?
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Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago
It is to make us stronger and to show and prove to ourselves that we can do whatever it takes to survive.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
In business it is said that A persons true character does not show when everything is going their way. Their true character is exposed when nothing is going their way.
A person sees their own character during their own times of trouble. We should be honest with our selves during those times.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Good nite yaul.
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Rochelle Frankposted 14 years ago
If we didn't suffer-- it wouldn't be a trial.
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pct52posted 14 years ago
God demands people follow him on their own free choice, trials are one way to test for that free choice.
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donotfearposted 14 years ago
"What may seem hurtful to our flesh now, will create growth in our spirit later." As said by Pastor Josh Lee, Cornerstone Assembly. today! I knew there was a reason I wrote this down in church this morning! Take it & run with it.
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  done! thanks
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Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago
I don't know why God allows suffering. The laziest thinker would rant and say if God was really God he wouldn't allow suffering and therefore there is no God. But suffering is a human condition. It could be that when you experience suffering it makes you stronger as someone has said before but it also may help you maintain a sense of empathy for the misery of others, and keeps you humble. I think people who suffer can also teaches us perhaps how to handle suffering with grace, humor, courage.
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  Loves To Readposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are so right about the fact that until you know sorrow and suffering you can not have empathy for others.
  Remember, Adam and Eve knew no sorrow until they took all mankind with them when they disobeyed God. Just as it was then Satan still causes suffering in our lives. God will not force us to do anything against our will. He waits patiently for us to call on him. Then and only then will He show us the way to find our real walk in life.
  Yes and through these trials we can help and guide others. Something you can't do if you have never had experience.
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kessposted 14 years ago
We live where there is the intermingling of Light and darkness.

The light causes up to perceive the way of Darkness as it contrast with the way of light.

Darkness has only one way and it cannot change, it is the way of suffering and death, and these things are accomplished while in the flesh, the living form of light within darkness or Spirit within flesh.

As long as we cling to the things of the flesh, there will be suffering and ultimately death, for the flesh must die and predestined to be so for it came from darkness and will return.

If one clings to this flesh an attempts to alleviate the sufferings of the flesh, he too will be caught up therein and adds to the suffering, rather than helping, though outwardly one may have that perception.
For such a way perpetuates the deceit of darkness who love light for it's own benefit.

But if one were to cling to the Spirit then that one Can truly alleviate much suffering of those in darkness while helping them to see the light of the Spirit.

So when we see suffering outwardly, we must recognise that it is the same darkness within ourselves we must first overcome by the Spirit light.

And unless We overcome darkness by that Spirit, we would be powerless to achieve any meaningful suffering around us.

But while in the flesh there is nothing else left to do but overcome by the Spirit, all the works of Darkness, within and without .
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FranyaBlueposted 14 years ago
After every hardship comes ease.

Every time you are made to suffer it takes away a sin that you would otherwise have to pay for in the afterlife.

And in most cases, suffering seems bad today but by tomorrow your laughing again.
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Greg Cremiaposted 14 years ago
If God makes us suffer so we can be closer to him, then why does he punish some people by not making them suffer.

Not everyone in this life suffers, some people have never experienced suffering. Has God already doomed these souls by not giving them suffering?

Most of our religious leaders live in luxury. Are they doomed for not suffering?
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  1) I don't think that God makes bad things happen to people. If God is holy and good, is seems impossible that He would use evil -- for this would make Him unholy and not-good.
  
  2) I think that God can use trials to bring about good. It's not that He creates bad things, but He uses them for good. It's important, in this case, to distinguish "bad things" and "trials," because not all trials have their root in evil.
  
  3) I would not agree that most of our religious leaders live in luxury. I recently heard that statistic that the average youth pastor in the Church of the Nazarene (a Protestant Denomination) makes $12,000/year. I don't think that this is too much different across protestant traditions. Although there are some mega-churches that have staff that make a lot of money, the average church size in America is somewhere around 100 people or less. These pastors are probably making $20-50 thousand a year including benefit packages.
  
  4) The ammount a money one makes does not determine to what extent a person suffers. Most every one experiences death of loved ones, loss of a job, relationship hardships, moving away from friends and family, etc.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  #3 - Wow! I wish I made that kind of money. I put in untold hours as a church leader and without pay. It is written to beware of ministering for pay. I do so glady and would never think of accepting any kind of payment.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Time for a quote from the "loving god!
  
  "I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers. Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin. There are no survivors to even tell what happened. I thought, 'Surely they will have reverence for me now! Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won't need to strike again.' But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn." So now the LORD says: "Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations. For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them. All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy. "On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together. My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings. (Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT)
  
  Nasty neurotic little god!
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can you please explain how this fits in to the rest of the book of Zephaniah (considered a prophet)? Also, how does this fit in with the rest of Scripture?
  
  Taking a single verse or passage from the Bible without providing the context of the entire narrative of how the story of God intersects with the story of humanity is like taking a single note or measure from an entire overture. It doesn't make sense and it might seem to sound like something entirely different than the composer desired.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why don't you remove RELIGION from Jesus' teachings?
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It has to be there before it can be removed.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But, he wasn't teaching religion? He despised the church. He knew that religion's "god" was a false idol. Yet, you follow Jesus' words that are IN religion.
  
  His teachings are not religion or even religious. His teachings are mixed up in the primitive language of his time. Which was mostly religious based, because of GOD-Kings, mystics and oracles, that lived at that time.
  
  Remove Jesus' work from religion.
  
  His teachings contradict that of religion.
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe that we are having a diffulting understanding one another because of different understandings of the word "religion."
  
  I will propose two understandings:
  
  Religion could be understood as the rules and regulations established in order for an individual to live in a relationship with some kind of deity. In this case, religion is based on a legalistic understanding of "dos" and "don'ts" that are centered around an institutionalized structure.
  
  On the other hand, religion could be understood as the sociological culture that exists within a specific theological tradition. This understanding of religion is based on the actual theology of the group its teachings. It does not necessarily center around specific regulations.
  
  ------------
  
  Jesus rejected the first definition of religion. Rules and regulations do not put a person in right relationship with God.
  
  However, Christianity could be classified as religion in the second sense. It is an organized structure centered on the teachings of Jesus. It is not, however, centered around rules and regulations or "dos" and don'ts"
  
  When reinterpreting you last comment in light of these two understandings, I would maybe agree with you. Jesus rejected religion based on regulations. I follow Jesus words in religion in the second sense -- a Church that lives in light of his teachings instead of rituals, rules, or regulations.
  
  Also, to reinterpret my comments based on these definitions: I already understand Jesus teachings with the absence of religion in the first sense.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There are hundreds of hate filled bible scriptures like this. I am simply pointing out that you would have to be as mad as a whistling kettle to believe any of it!
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know.
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is a conversation that would require a great deal of conversation that can't really take place in this context.
  
  A good starting point is this: The Old Testament must be interpreted in light of Jesus Christ and the New Testament. These verses are understood in a new light when viewed through the perspective of Scripture as a whole -- especially the new promises brought forth in the New Testament.
  
  Secondly, one must understand the covenant relationship between God and Israel that is threaded throughout the enitre Old Testament.
  
  Again, as I already said, these "hate filled verses" taken out of context are not as "hate-filled" when they're a part of the entire overture of Scripture.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In or out of context, what entity would write such insane psychologically unsound crud!
  I have found that "context" is whatever religionists want the bible to say.
  Omnipotent yet psychotic? It is to laugh!
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It seems that you have made up your mind about God and Christianity. It seems that I could be as logical and truthful as possible, yet would not sway your opinion or break-down your presumptions about God, Christianity, or Scripture. Although I could continue in this discussion with you, I do not believe that it would move you in any direction.
  
  I hope that someday you will know this all-powerful, loving God.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I doubt your understanding would be much use to me. I will believe in a god in a heartbeat with even one bit of proof. Who would not? Eternal life? Count me in.
  Trouble is it is all neurotic tripe!
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you are looking for evidence. There is quite a bit of evidence that points towards the existence of God.
  
  If you are looking for uncontestable proof, there is none and won't be until Christ returns. If there was uncontestable proof then everyone would believe in God as a matter of cognitive fact. A person's relationship with him would be based simply on cognitive knowledge and not a matter of the heart.
  
  God looks for more than ascent. He desires trust.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In 2000 years despite all the prayers and all the hype, not one prayer answered, no improvement in the world, just religious wars and hate. Not one iota of proof. Doesn't this ring any bells?
  No belief has less evidence than religion, it relies on it's self for proof.
  In other words, you have nothing, nilche zip.
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If that's the proof you are looking for I have tons of proof. I know dozens, maybe hundreds, of prayers that have been answered. Also, I could provide thousands of pieces of evidence that show how Christianity has made this world better.
  
  I also could provide evidence outside of Christianity for Christianity.
  
  For some reason, I think I could provide all such evidence and you still wouldn't believe.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have no evidence at all outside the religious tomes that indoctrinated you. None.
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like I said. I can provide the evidence, yet you will not believe it.
  
  You wanted answered prayers:
  I know people who, after praying, were healed of their cancer. I know others where we brought back to conciousness without medical or physical assistance immediately after someone prayed.
  
  You wanted the world to be a better place:
  I know of thousands of dollars and hundred of Christians being sent and working in Haiti right now to help the injured, sick, and homeless.
  I know hundreds of hungry people in metro-areas fed because of Christians.
  
  You wanted evidence outside the realm of Christianity:
  There are archeological finds that prove the accounts of Scripture. There are historical documents written by non-Christians the prove the existence of Jesus and the impact he made on the entire Roman world. Not to mention that all anybody had to do to prove that he was not raised from the dead was to provide his dead body -- yet this was impossible, because there was no body to be found.
  
  I could go on. But I do not think that it would do any good. You will not believe regardless of what proof I bring you.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You provide heresay, conjecture and unproven answers to prayers the same as all religionists. No proof, or evidence.
  You show me a case of answered prayer and I will show you a lie or deception
  You reckon prayer cures disease?
  I don't think so!
  My religious friend got cancer, prayed and died.
  I got a more serious cancer and lived. So what?
  That does not prove that not having a religion saved me from death does it?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hi earnest, how bez dem fairies down there? jeje
  the golden rule my friend: don't hub angry!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't get why you think I am angry?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  humor, Earnest. It's called humor -sarcastic, maybe, but nonetheless.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, I cannot recognise humour or sarcasm in your statement.
  I messed up the post. This was to TOD.
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am sorry to hear about your friend. I don't know why God heals some and not others. I lost my 9-year-old cousin in a car acccident. I don't know why things like that happen. I am sorry.
  
  --------------
  
  I think that I have proved my point. You explicitly stated 3 areas where this is no proof the existence of God -- prayer, the betterment of the world, and extra-Christian evidence. I provided some evidence in all three categories, but you sought to explain them away.
  
  You will not believe regardless of how much evidence I bring. And, like I said before, there will not be any proof. God desires trust, not just ascent to facts.
  
  Perhaps the conversation cannot go any further than this.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you have proved your point with your examples, then why have I not proved mine with my example.
  I remember what he told me. ( I got cancer before him.)
  He told me that if I let the surgeons at me I would die. I am here 15 years later, he died in a couple of weeks from a lesser cancer with his whole family praying their hearts out.
  If you don't want to know I understand. Nothing must be allowed to question the sky fairy! I could provide this sort of proof all day!
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I do understand. My grandpa died even though many people were praying for him. I have experienced other situations similar to yours. That fact is, I have questioned God about it. I don't understand why he heals some supernaturally, heals some through medical science, and others he allows to leave this earthly life. I don't know. This does question God, and I am well aware of the question.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Prayer does not work, there were studies done on this will only null results. If prayers were answered, no one would die of cancer, or didn't that occur to you?
  
  There are Muslim, Jews and atheists doing the same thing, this is not proof of anything other than the compassion of mankind.
  
  None of that is any evidence whatsoever. Do you know the meaning of evidence?
  
  You haven't provided anything at all other than rhetoric. Real evidence is not rhetoric.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, your statement here now tells me that you don't understand Jesus' work. No problem.
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please clarify.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for not beating around the bush, Earnest!
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h.a.borcichposted 14 years ago
In my life I have experienced personal growth yet it has rarely happened during times of ease.
Sometimes the suffering is a consequence of my poor choices so it is a learning experience.
There are times I thought I was able to take care of anything and everything, but I was brought to a place where I had no choice but to trust God day to day.
And I too have experienced random suffering - not a consequence nor a punishment, but just a fact of life experience.
All the ways of suffering have a benefit when we choose to see it that way.

Preemptively...I cannot explain about the suffering children, those who starve to death nor the mind of God so please don't throw that at me for responding. Holly
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  progameposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very wise answer - by far the best answer to this question h.a.borcich
  God does not bring suffering - we are the ones that brings the suffering onto ourselves, through the choices we make everyday.
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thirdmilleniumposted 14 years ago
There are millions of things we do not have answer for. It is futile exercise to find answer for everything. This is one of those things, that is all. No use blaming God
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Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago
He's not saying God causes suffering. He's asking why God allows it.
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Ohmaposted 14 years ago
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
It happens because we are alive. The will to survive is not an attribute that the beleivers can monopolize.
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Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago
If there is a god and he intervened at every turn, we would learn nothing at all. We would be bored for eternity and bitch and moan to each other about it. Which is likely why we came to this earth life anyway. So now we're here bitching and moaning about how hard everything is because we're afraid to take responsibility for our actions.

Can't have it both ways. Victims learn nothing unless they learn they are not victims. All our decisions, thoughts, actions and choices brought us to this moment. If you don't like where you are in this moment, change it. Stop waiting for someone else to bail you out.

Whether there is a god or not, we are still responsible for learning what we need to to create our own happiness. Depending on someone else for happiness is codependence and victim thinking. Sharing your happiness with someone else is natural and a wonderful experience.
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CMHypnoposted 14 years ago
You create your own life and are responsible for your own thoughts and actions.

If there is a god, I suspect that he/she would have better things to do than send problems our way.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, we bring enough problems upon ourselves and each other.
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  Will Bensonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That pretty much sums it up for me too.
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Dave Mathewsposted 14 years ago
It wouldn't be much of a trial if there wasn't some struggling to go along with it. Do you simply expect to sail through to the finish? I think not.
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cheaptrickposted 14 years ago
It all depends on Which God your talking about...
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Frank Menchiseposted 14 years ago
Even though you try to explain the reason why we have to suffer for God, I believe that we suffer because it just happens and God has nothing to do with it; humanity has invented all this just to find excuses for themselves.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Okay?

However, I'd like to point out something many also overlook. Religious leaders, do what for who?

Definition you provided? Mine- religion is a business based on a code of ethics bound to a higher cause.

Yes, it gives a code of conduct for living, but belittles and degrades humanity, so much so, it is literally crushing society.

If you say you understand Jesus' work without religion. I'm glad for you. The liklihood, is slim. But, if you say so.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
Learner, i must admit you are well prepared if anything.
and in some 'odd' form I do appreciate Cag's position, in that the man & being of Y`shua Adamic & Y`shua Moshiach thoroughly encompassed that of religion (law) and enigma (prophecy), filling it beyond consideration. Why? So man would no longer be captive, enslaved by these idols, ideas, ideologies.

However, as i have argued much in these hubs and at the doors of many temples, so long as men attempt to prove what they already know, attempt to grow what is already grown or attempt to build what is already built into the fiber of their being, the longer they will be enslaved to that limitation.

for too long i have seen believer after believer 'say' so much, with such passion and conviction, you would think they were ministers themselves. but after the fluff and music fade, in the actual minute they consider being like Him, they fold their robes -like the teachers of the law.

perhaps, just perhaps you will be one to break out of the golden chains of salvation and into the kingdom that is yours already, embrace the One who called you a brother and bring Him a gift, as a friend does another, beyond thinking -beloved.
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Twenty One Days, I must admit, you speak so criptically that I can rarely understand what you mean. I think I have all but your last paragraph de-crypted. Could you enlighten me?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  no, because then you would still remain in the 'need to know' realm, your mind/thoughts.
  
  the Spirit is life, the letter of the words kills.
  you think you believe in Him, good -even demons believe.
  
  you think you are saved. but you thinking enslaves you to sin.
  for as Adam was clothed / righteousness, not of man and was deceived into thinking -even to believe- he needed to know, to journey to find the truth.
  thus he became aware, conscious that he was all together unclothed/unrighteous. He became a slave to his thinking, his logic and reason.
  before this, he lived in abundant life -one with Him. Y`shua taught this from day one. This is the mystery of faith revealed, yes?
  your faith has saved you. That faith is beyond consciousness of sin. Faith is to see yourself as righteous and BE THAT RIGHTEOUSNESS.
  
  ...always learning, but never coming to the knowledge of the Truth -understanding/being that Truth.
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are an interesting one. From reading your profile and a few comments on various formers, am I correct in saying that you are some-what of a combination of universalism, spiritualism, and humanist?
  
  I definitely understand your ellusions to Genesis & Romans in the text above, yet there is a part of your comments that do not quite express themselves as explicitly as your biblical references. This is intentional, I'm sure.
  
  Quite interesting
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  actually, non of the three.
  interesting you would say that though.
  helps prove my points.
  
  all knowledge is finite -a relationary parallel of the need to know. humans were not created to need to know, they already knew.
  The Word designed us this way.
  
  Though, as one of my hubs suggests, the two Mystics religion/science, sensation/logic, romantic/classic wife/husband have recently reunited to form Quality. Believing they can co-exist, find peace. Indeed, a New Age. The child they will spawn is too horrible to even consider...
  
  So, while you seek Him in temples of stone and paper and they seek him in the skies, build machines to take you beyond the stars or find that 'secret' energy called spirit,
  
  I will enjoy my Father and live in His righteousness.
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You believe this all to be true, yet you do not identify yourself. You use titles like "the One" and "The Word" which are both connected to Jesus Christ ("the One" is used in Mark, among other places and "The Word" especially in John, but also in Hebrews and a motif throughout all of Scripture) yet you never explicitly identify Jesus Christ as your Savior.
  
  If you claim him to be, I can't help but wonder why you do not idenitfy your beliefs as what they are. If you believe them to be true, it would make sense that you would like to share them with others in a way that can be understood.
  
  If you do not claim Christ as your Savior, I cannot help but question your echoes of the Christian Bible in almost every sentence you type.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  'christian bible', wow.
  
  you know, i had the blessing of studying Torah with a real rabbe.
  He and i both knew that the Word -Who, by the way, has the Name Above all names -which no one knows but He- is Everything. Him coming as flesh, crucified, buried, descended, resurrected and ascended was the gift to SHOW man the way, not 'tell them' the way or 'prove them' the way. He is the living Proof of who we are to be. So long as you continue to label things, you crucify Him again and again.
  
  I am sorry to be gruff. Just bugs me to see how the flock have been blinded by the false shepherd and false prophet.
  
  you say, I am saved, yet accept death.
  you say, I am free, yet still a slave to sin
  you say, I know Him, yet your heart is far away.
  you say, you have all, yet have nothing.
  you say a lot, like the rest.
  
  in the lyrical words of the band: Children of the Consuming Fire: your just a modern pharisees
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is much that could be said in response to this. You seem to be against argument, persuasion, or even discussion yet you take part in these same activities simply be participating in these forums.
  
  You will not call youself a Christian, because you dislike titles, yet the name itself means "little Christ." The One, the Word, who's Name is above all other Names, said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" is none other except Jesus Christ of whom I am a follower.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  if you truly are, good for you.
  your words, here, tell another story.
  
  ps, it is not 'little christian' it is the 'anointed ones'.
  pss, this title Christian was given to men BY men at Antioch -you know- where the pagans lived & built their temples to Diana/Artemus. And not long after Rome adopted 'Christianity' as its new god so to keep a civil war from happening...
  
  anyway.
  
  off to begin a new day in rest.
  cheers Learner, Sir Dent, Earnest.
  enjoy the days.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  May have been convinced that the term Christian is a dirty word. Atheism and other systems have been railing agianst this title for centuries.
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  The Learnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  perhaps.
  
  and with this, I also say goodnight.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please, by all means, elaborate.
  
  I listen much more than i speak/write.
  
  correct, nor do i call myself a Hebrew, a Gentile, a Slave, a Macedon, an Englishmen or Sort-of Legally Naturalized American.
  
  Hezboullah, Smez-boullah.
  
  Be a doer of the Word, not just a hearer only, thus DECEIVING your OWN heart. (i.e. just because you quote the books doesn't mean you know the Author. Even lucifer quoted the books, even Judas was a follower.) Beyond this He emphatically stated not to worship Him, yet millions do no matter the 'denomination'.
  
  What separates you or any follower for that matter from the aforementioned? I do not see it.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Lam 1:19 I called for my lovers, but they deceived me: my priests and mine elders gave up the ghost in the city, while they sought their meat to relieve their souls.
  
  Those who go it alone and refuse to fellowship with others, will find themselves alone in the end. God has never changed. They werte to meet in the Old Tastament as they are to meet in the New Testament.
  
  Lam 1:1 How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how is she become as a widow! she that was great among the nations, and princess among the provinces, how is she become tributary!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes, and it is also better to live in the corner of a house than with an argumentative wife...
  
  i like you SirD, no need to quote books, we are to BE the Living Word.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes but we cannot be the living Word if we do not know the Word.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Word is near you, IN YOUR MOUTH & HEART, not a paperback, shine gold-black cover, with red print and a glossary.
  He is in you. the One Who is the books -all of them inspired by Him- is in you.
  Close the novel, listen to the Author.
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scheinandrasposted 14 years ago
people learn through suffering
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(Q)posted 14 years ago
Suffering? Are you serious?

You know nothing about suffering, none of us do.

25,000 children starve to death each day, their entire lives are nothing but suffering with no joy whatsoever. Their parents watch as their children die in their arms helpless to do anything.

The so-called good Christians here always seem to forget that while they munch on their three meals a day.

Suffering? Ask your Jesus why he allows that kind of suffering while you grow fat on your ignorance and selfishness.

Suffering indeed.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So why aren't you do anything about it?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess the same can be asked of you too? And, yes, if you want to turn it around on me too?
  
  However, all my work is toward helping people. So, I guess that answers the question. Now, it's your turn?
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is that what you call it?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, you think you're funny. However, I do help people physically in my community.
  
  Again, what you are you doing? It sounds like NOTHING, but talking a good talk. So, you cannot walk the walk? Is that what you're really saying?
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I won't prick your delusions. No, I don't do anything and I don't rant at God or help mankind either.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't rant at "GOD" either. It doesn't exist, nothing to rant at, even if I had a rant.
  
  I don't have any delusions. For the last 10 years of my life, I've had more clarity and understanding about life, than you could ever imagine.
  
  I believe you when you say you don't do anything. You're too selfish to think outside yourself, long enough to give a damn.
  
  Get a life.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rant alert
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  See - this is one of my issues with the christian religion. They are taught that they do not need to do anything.
  
  And on the odd occasion that they do decide to do something - it invariably ends up being preaching the word or pointing fingers at pregnant teenagers.
  
  I personally think spending some energy destroying this religion and a belief in an invisible super being is a good way to spend some of my time.
  
  I am doing something.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  code rant
  code rant
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'll agree. The religions that have ties to the "GOD" concept is hurting society. So, feel free to destroy it.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the almighty mark knowles will personally see to the destruction of the christian religion
  
  delusion alert
  delusion alert
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not alone sweetie pie. There are millions of us sick and tired of your hypocritical, hate mongering religion.
  
  Or did you think it was just me?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have the same thoughts on religion, anything I can do to help others see the end of it is a good thing.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'd rather let them still believe in it. I find the posts very interesting !
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  End of false religion ? I hope so.
  End of faith in God? Never happen.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, to the stupid, bigoted atheist/agnostic, it's the same thing.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What's the matter flightkeeper? Frightened that your fairy will be seen for what it is?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ah, four-of-ten is it, Earnest? The 'crew' lol.
  you guys should start a new 'street gang'.
  I don't believe in your god/your jesus but i am going to bash them both, cuz i ran out of fairy dust to smoke.....LOL
  
  talking monkeys
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  More like embarassed for you that you keep asking senseless questions. Poor thing.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing senseless about not believing in your sky fairy.
  You remind me of the water dousers.
  Like to submit your fairy to a double blind controlled test?
  Even with absolute proof that it is a pile, every single douser will tell you they are still right.
  No proof, no evidence in 2000 years orta do it, but we are dealing with the super scared here.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OH This is good. You don't believe in super sky fairies, but you believe in referencing the water dousers that you don't believe in either.
  
  Oh I'm having a good time, but I have somewhere to go. Good-bye atheists and agnostics, try not to trip over your own feet.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pathetic!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  how's the fairie farm, Earnest? oh, pathetic i see.
  
  talking monkey
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you calling me a monkey?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  missed the "S" there fella. typo.
  but interesting how you smart folk do not like being called names like, pathetic, crazy, nut-so, yet repeatedly do so to others.
  funny, i thought the rules of engagement were equal to both sides.
  
  i feel that porch thing coming on again....
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you actually read any of the posts?
  As in your case, I was simply replying to personal abuse.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh I'm so hurt NOT!
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're attempt to mock Mark is only showing your ignorance. You don't realize, it's not JUST Mark who is in the game. There are millions of others who are also out to destroy it.
  
  It is a hoax. Religion is a lie. Has been for many centuries. And is no longer in the best interest of society.
  
  As I've already shown, in a different thread, your sad religion has made your a selfish person, which is in direct violation of what you're specifically taught not to do.
  
  Your sad religion teaches you to be selfless, without pride, yet you are selfish to the core because of your misplaced faith.
  
  Again, you place funny faces to mock. Yet, your individual actions of baiting Mark and myself- shows you are of low moral character or don't even know what morals are in the first place.
  
  So, who is delusional? Sounds like you are actually.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no, I have mocked the intentions of mark knowles. My life has no meaning. Nooo Nooo say it isn't so.
  
  His million (in his mind) followers who see the evil God, have been insulted. But not to worry, Cagsil who helps (in some kind of fashion) mankind will make sure that no bigoted atheists or agnostics will become stupider (because how further down can you go?) and affect their morality.
  
  MWA HAA HAA HAA
  
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Morality?
  
  I am familiar with your type of morality.
  
  And no - I have no followers. I am meeting more and more like minded people though.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Correction, please replace in previous post:
  
  "His million (in his mind) like-minded (HORRORS!) people who see the evil God, have been insulted. But not to worry, Cagsil who helps (in some kind of fashion) mankind will make sure that no bigoted atheists or agnostics will become stupider (because how further down can you go?) and affect their morality (with a question mark)."
  
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How nice to see ignorance.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As you never fail to see and tell EVERYONE, Cagsil.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did you receive an answer from Jesus yet?
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why should I receive an answer from someone you think doesn't exit? Are you acknowledging he exists? Tsk. Tsk. I would never have thought you'd ever acknowledge that Q.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did you receive an answer or not? Why can't you answer this simple question?
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because the question doesn't make sense. Duh!
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it does. However, you probably won't answer this question simply due to the fact that you won't receive an answer from your god. The answer is clearly a paradox.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  rhetorical Farley.
  you don't want an answer, you want to get your fix.
  
  talking monkeys
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well if you knew the answer why did you ask the question? For a smartie, you really don't make a lot of sense!
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, you won't ask your god why he allows children to starve to death, is that what you're saying?
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I thought you just established that there is no God. You are too confused.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, you won't ask your god why he allows children to starve to death each day? Yes or no?
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is there an echo chamber in here?
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A simple yes or no will suffice.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh please, nothing in your life suffices, that is clear.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I ask the lord that question for you.
  He said that you were suposed to take care of that.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then, by HIS answer, we are all to take care of ourselves and HE does nothing. He does absolutely nothing for you and nothing for me. He allows those children to starve to death because it is not his problem. Correct?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe he thinks we're too much !.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  much too, we are, think he, maybe (yoda voice).
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is this the way aliens talk ?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  only Q Knowles Cags & Quark know for sure, love.
  ps, nice ink, real or just a random internet photo?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Guess
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  tough to tell, looks like ink.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Q, how did you manage to stick someone else foot in your mouth. lol
  
  If none of us -including yourself- knows anything regarding suffering, and you have no inclination of 'Jesus' in any fashion other than religious conjecture, can you honestly dare utter that kind of -how did you say it to Learner- rhetoric.
  you are a walking oxymoron.
  
  ( just has a flash of the movie prophecy in my head where the 'devil' which you also don't believe in, called humans talking monkeys. )
  
  you care not of this 'Jesus' yet openly bash this non-existent god who apparently has inflicted all this suffering on the humans???
  
  long awkward pause...
  
  to say you are angry because of suffering, is fine.
  to blame another human, even to a point acceptable
  to condemn an entity you otherwise do not believe exists makes you look silly. Goes for any other anti-theist or atheist.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  While I know it's extremely difficult for many Christians with reading comprehension problems to understand these simple concepts, although I suspect they do and must in turn deflect from the original concept in order to sound intelligent or perhaps they just like reading their own words.
  
  The claim was made in the OP that people here suffer from some form of mental psychoses and wonder why their gods allow them to suffer. The claim was not made by a non-existent god, it was made by humans. Did you understand that or would you like me to explain it in single syllable words?
  
  My post is towards those humans who seem to believe they are suffering, but really don't know what suffering is all about as they are well fed, have a place to live, and obviously access to computers and the internet. They have all these things while thousands die every day from starvation, hence their suffering is irrelevant and they should be ashamed of themselves to even talk about such nonsense.
  
  I'm sorry that your reading comprehension skills are not up to an adult level. Perhaps, some remedial reading courses are in your future?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Q,
  
  two words for your simple a@@:
  
  Rhetorical Farley!
  
  ps, so now you know who is and is not a 'christian', really?
  again -rhetorical Farley.
  
  you make me laugh more than Knowles, Cags and most recent Quark combined.
  
  your points don't even make a point, even if they could, they would not be sharp, just rusted hackneyed regurgitation of what you 'think' is your supreme need-to-know.
  
  LMAO!
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm perfectly aware many are unable to respond with intelligence and integrity and must resort to ad homs when they don't comprehend the words in front of them.
  
  I get that.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Let's talk about integrity for a moment. You have written almost constantly about starving children, yet, I see you still own your computer which could be sold and a few fed from the proceeds.
  
  That is the real Ad Hominem. It is also lacking in integrity.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Once again, the reading comprehension of many here is abysmal, to say the least. Or, are you deflecting because you are ashamed of yourself?
  
  Have you asked Jesus why he allows so many to die every day? What did he say? I really want to know the answer to that question?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  a jesus you don't think exists....remember genius.
  rhetorical need to know....
  
  LOL.
  
  talking monkeys
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's merely another deflection from answering the question. It doesn't matter what I believe.
  
  If you believe your Jesus exists, then you should be able to get an answer that is clear, concise and accurate.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  rhetorical, Atheist, you don't care if 'my' jesus exists...remember, your logic has all the answers. so why ask a question you know the answer to already.
  
  come on monkey, monkey, monkey
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know the answer, that's the point. Will you ask your god why he allows thousands of children to die each day?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what god? you say there is no god but yourself. maybe you should ask yourself then.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, you won't ask, either? Yes or no.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  who am i to ask? you?
  remember, you do not believe in this god nonsense as you stated many times. no one to ask then, sorry. If it is to ask you, then look deep into the mirror and ask yourself, yes or no.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He saves as many as will come to Him.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Prove it.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ask Him yourself with a sincere heart and you will then know.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm asking you.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You asked for proof and I gave you a way to find the truth. I cannot explain it to you.
  
  All I can say is this, if you want the truth, you will find it in the way I wrote. If you don't want the truth it just doesn't matter does it.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You could have just said you copped out as that's exactly what you did. Just say so rather than stringing people along. If you knew, you would explain it. Simple.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why not just go ahead and do what I wrote? If anyone copped out it was you. Why? Maybe because you are afraid you have been wrong all these years?
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How can it be wrong to understand that Christianity is a myth built from almost identical previous myths? You're asking me to suspend my disbelief and accept the myth.
  
  Why would anyone want to do such a thing?
  
  I have found the tales spun by Aesop and Grimms to be more believable and intelligent than Christianity but still don't accept that animals can talk.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yup yup, sureeeeeee.
  at least retards know the difference between ice cream and I scream. apparently, you don't.
  btw, if you are sooooooooo intelligent, soooooooo enlightened wanker, why do YOU care what they do or what god they believe or what prayer they pray or the result of it? You are supreme to it, you say. You are a junkie, an hollow, shallow, empty intelligent crack pipe, looking for a fix.
  
  i don't pity you, nor loathe you.
  nor will i miss you when your superior glucose & static electric unit melt back into the earth you came from.
  
  talking monkeys.
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cindyvineposted 14 years ago
Because he doesn't have cable TV and it's amusing to watch!
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cosetteposted 14 years ago
wow, Mark has 2,515 followers?

that blows my mind. anyway, carry on.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No mark has 2515 like-minded people.
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cosetteposted 14 years ago
haha you're feisty, Flightkeeper!

i just fanned you.

well, ciao for now.
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Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago
Okay, I didn't expect that. Thanks Cosette. Ciao

I'm going too.
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Shealy Healyposted 14 years ago
This is a good question. So many individuals walk away from spirit when difficulties come into their daily lives. I have done this in the past. Now, today I have learned to hold on and ride out the lesson and know from experience that this too will pass.
Shealy
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Ann Nonymousposted 14 years ago
I go through my entire life questioning each unfair circumstance with these two words, "Why me?" but in reality, I should be asking, "Why NOT me?" Am I any better than the next person that I do not deserve to have some hardship in my life?

And it's not as if God pours trials down upon our head, then sits back and relaxes. No, we live in a unfair, imperfect, world, where sin dominates. But that doesn't mean God isn't in control or isn't aware of what's going on. We can become more than our problems by God's grace and life on earth isn't eternal....that's what Heaven is for...

Now Heaven, there is a perfect place....
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
You must believe in one true god, and get that in your head
cos if you don't you won't live on after you are dead
So be afraid and live in fear for all your useless life
frighten kids, scare the neighbors even scare your wife.
fear will keep them all in line it's written in the book
...... or grow a brain confront your fear and stop being a crook.
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(Q)posted 14 years ago
It's clear the believers here who have 'responded' lack the integrity and honesty to answer a question they know will shake the foundation of their beliefs. They will flood these forums with their opinions on what their gods will do, but when asked to provide an answer to a simple question, they turn to childish behavior and insults.

What is truly saddening about this is that they'll return to promote their god and all the good he allegedly does every day for them, while they and their so-called gods blissfully ignore the plight of others.

This mindset is what has been destroying our societies for centuries and continues to have a stranglehold on the weak-minded and the gullible who are unable to view the world beyond their own hubris.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  conjecture, rhetoric, lies, unprovable logic.
  
  a god you don't believe in cannot be the substance of your argument, nor the supposition of a mindset you know nothing about.
  and certainly a world you know nothing about.
  
  rhetorical Farley
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, religion is conjecture, rhetoric, lies and non logic.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  this forum states God, not religion. perhaps you cannot separate the two. Or you are genuinely just looking to put-down or point fingers. In which case, makes you the same as those you prey on.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The believer will always turn to deflect away from their intellectual dishonesty by making the claim that their beliefs, which they hold higher than any other ideology or person is not a basis for argument when they themselves use exactly the same beliefs to support their arguments.
  
  They use the same kindergarten playground logic by stating no one knows their mindsets when their mindsets are clearly displayed for all to see.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (Putting on my professorial voice)
  It's clear here that stupid bigoted self-important narcissistic atheists and agnostics don't like being pricked but like to do the pricking and get really upset when it's done to them.
  
  It's so sad that these hyper self-aware atheists and agnostics foist their truth on the entire hubville forums and are so mad that there are still people who don't believe in their vision even as they enlighten the rest of us with their fabulous vision of what life is really like.
  
  The mindset of these self-inflated ego types have occurred in previous times and have terrorized villages and whole cities and even whole countries. Examples are Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.
  They are unable to comprehend that normal people think they are wackos.
  
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  bingo.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hilarious!
  How inflated does the ego have to be to believe you are being noticed and protected by a dead guy from a 2000 year old book written by psychotics? In the mean time, while your fairy is busy finding your car keys, the rest of the world is ignored by this god?
  It is easy to see where the megalomania begins!
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Aah, yes your vision and interpretation of the world that majority doesn't believe in and you insist that we should have. No wonder you know that fancy word megalomania.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is that even English? Like I said megalomania!
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh dear, did you want to come up with your own language too?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How massively disingenuous of you! Your statement makes no sense.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I can't help you. Your mind is so lofty it seems.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just like the Inquisition.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Inquisition right after the Muslims were driven back from Spain? From what I've read of that part of history, it doesn't fit Tantrum.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  why not ?
  they were wackos as well. And Self-inflated ego types terrorizing villages all over Europe and America.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  From what I've read they were fearful that there were many Muslim sympathizers who lived in Spain who were trying to undermine the current gov't. It was harsh I agree, but I think they were defending their kingdom from the invaders.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you know what the Inquisition was ? They not onlywent after muslims, Jews and Catholics who where or scientists or astronomers, philosophers and anyone who discussed the Bible. and What about the Witches ? And Joan of Ark ? Giordano Bruno ? Galileo ? Etc. ?
  and Salem ???
  all killed in the name of God
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tantrum, I think you're reading one side of the Inquisition and it's the very anti-Catholic side. There were reasons for portraying the Catholic Church in a hateful way and I'm not really qualified to explain the points of it.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course you aren't! There's only one way to see the Inquisition. And that's all the dead for nothing!
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very well Tantrum, ignore my attempts at explanation.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what explanation ?
  You say you're not really qualified to explain !
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're right!
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tantrum, if all types of government is the same to you and you think that you will have the same rights and priveleges, then you're not going to care about whether you live under an Islamic kingdom or a Christian kingdom. I do and I do think there are differences between the two which is why I don't look at the Inquisition the way you do.
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  wordscribe41posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who are "normal" people anyway?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey !! nice 2C U !!
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  wordscribe41posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Right back at you, tantrum.
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  wordscribe41posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was referring to this "normal people" quote. Sorry, can't get used to the new forum setup...
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  go to 'Chronological in the right top and you'll be OK
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  wordscribe41posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahhh... Thanks. Feels like home again.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi wordscribe! Nice to see you!
  Hi Tantrum!
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hi earnest!
  still fighting against the Sky Fairy ??
  
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  wordscribe41posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Earnest!!! Fantastic to see you, too.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Childish name calling and laughing at others instead of offering answers to those who seek them demonstrates the lengths and breadths believers will stoop to protect their infantile beliefs when all it does is demonstrate their lack of thinking skills and intellectual honesty.
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  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Intellectual honesty...you're funny!
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
Q, i am not trying to be a d!k.
I am merely pointing out the obvious,
and doing it exactly the way the rest do in here to the believers.

you clearly have stated quite often and aggressively that you and the 'crew' do not believe in ANY of the notions of religion/deity nor the elements of them -thought, reason, documentation, ritual, expression, etc.

so why do you continue to ask questions/make statement or argue points you think are non-existent or irrational?
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
God, the master underachiever!
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I think that God leaves these things up to those people that are troubled by them, to do something about it.
If it bothers you, you should set up a fund, make collections, anything constructive to help the situation.
But if you are shaming for the sake of shaming, then shame on you.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  *sigh*
  
  You just don't get it, Jerami. How many times does one need to explain this to you? Do you understand English? Do you know how to synthesize information? What is your problem?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How many times does one need to explain this to you?
  you ask? ... I guess until it can be explained properly.
  Do you understand English? You ask ... Sure
  Do you know how to synthesize information?You ask ...
  to synthesize information is imposible when there is none is given.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then, please don't bother responding. Thanks muchly.
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
I am not a Christian...but through suffering comes valuable learning experiences....and character building opportunities....
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
So god made us, and the devil, then blames "sin" on both!

The neurotic loons who wrote it obviously knew even the ignorant would not buy a sky fairy, thus all the threats in the OT.

The question should be asked. Why would an omniscient, omnipotent entity need to make threats and demand to be worshipped?
The biblical concepts are far too ridiculous to be taken seriously by anyone not indoctrinated into this madness.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are assuming that because God wants something, God must "need" it. God doesn't need worship from us. We need to worship God. There is a huge difference.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If god does not need to be worshipped why does it demand worship on fear of torture and a horrifying death?
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PrayerWarrior101posted 14 years ago
Brothers and sisters, please consider the following.
My boys came home from school stating they were going to beat up so-in-so. “Why?” I inquired. Because so-in-so said blah blah blah about you. My reply was “I don’t even know so-in-so and I do not want you fighting with them, it is obvious that so-in-so does not know me.” Then from within my spirit, “That’s exactly how I feel, it is obvious they do not know me, and I don’t want you fighting with them”
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harceeposted 14 years ago
The question may have varied answers since we are either atheist, christian or in other religious group. as long as my belief is concern, many should take into consideration the following factors to answer that question.

1. God allow us to suffer or experience pain to let us be aware of what we are doing. Imagine without feeling any pain, will you able to differentiate bad from good? of course not!

2. True believers of God are always put into test in order to strengthen our faith. It is like determining true gold from a fake one by putting in on fire.

3. If we will never experience sufferings, we will be satisfied to this world and eventually fall in love in it to the case that we will be too attached in it. God prepared second life for us believer where there are no sufferings

4.God allow Satan to make suffering to test Christian.

5. The most important answer is this: there are things that are keep and only knows by God, therefore they cannot be explained or understand by humans. (Deuteronomy 29:29)
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
The only explanation that I can think of for all of the mystery that is in the world would be;... We have been living in the 42 months that the beast that is seen in Rev. 13 was given to blaspheme the Lord.
Religion says that a day in prophesy is a year in our time. I think it is a bit more, but lets go with that. 42 months would be 1260 years. For this 42 months of the beast, God is not intervening in worldly affairs. The beast is allowed to tempt and torment the people of the earth.

If a day of prophesy is a year some of the time, it would have to be so all of the time. ???
If this is true, that the 42 months had begun long ago, this would explain everything.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That would be the devil that god made right?
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Marliza Gunterposted 14 years ago
there are two reasons...one...as a testimony unto the evil one..as in the day of Job...second...to teach us obedience...unto death...those who love their lives..will loose it...those who hate their own lives (comfort) unto death..shall find it...
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well that explains it! I should give up a wonderful life full of love and children's laughter, and be controlled by an invisible sky fairy cos if I do I will get another life! You people really need some help!
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
By the way didn't your god make everything? Why not just make sane people!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thenz youz woodz notz bez herez. jeje
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rytntytposted 14 years ago
God is omnipotent, an all energy entity and we are Him manifested in the physical world. We dwell in the 3rd dimension, the last dimension, the most dense. In this dimension we don't float, we walk, we drive vehicles, we run, we have to utilize other manifested objects in order move our bodies. We don't communicate without moving our lips (some people do, the ones that have exercised those gifts), but we have forgotten the ways of which are birth-right. We have forgotten because if we did happen to remember ALL of what we are, are souls would not be so eager to come to be manifested on this dense ASS BACKWARDS earth. Not to mention that we couldn't handle all the truths that we have so convienantly forgotten.

I feel that we Gods fingers (in a sense), All of us, even in other dimensions. And we are all sent out to experience different things, different existence, perspectives, trials and tribulations. Energy can only creative, energy cannot experience what is physical, tangible.

Remember God gave us "free will" for a reason.You decide to go left, well there is a set of circumstances that go along with that decision. You decide to go right, there is a different set of circumstances that go along with that decision. Once you have made a decision and you are then on that path, it is all about how you experience your experience, the decisions that you make from that point to the next point, and so on, and so on... It's like playing one of those virtual computer games. You know how all the players can actually get know one another, communicate, but they are all trying to win, to make the best moves in order to win the game? No, it may not make sense if your looking at it from a "Adam & Eve" stand point. There are no accidents, everything happens for one reason or another, because of decisions that you made, Karma, Fate, destiny, but there is never an unexcusable reason why things happen in your life or in this world. Everything is accountable for.

I used to cry myself to sleep wondering why God was bringing these trial to my door step, "what have I done to deserve this,?" I would ask. Then one day out of the blue something in side me said, " because you are a strong enough soul, and you will be able to benefit from this life lesson that I have place on your path." SO HANDLE IT!! (the voice didn't say that part, but.....)
Anyway, God doesn't put anything on your path that you are not capable and able of handling. You may have to dig deep, sometimes way deep, but I gaurantee you that at some point you will learn so much more about who you REALLY are, and what your ALL about, and that in itself will inspire you to better for you, your family and for your God.

Thank you
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