I struggle with this, given it is man written and contains tales that cannot be proven.
If someone has faith could that not be enough?
If this is a ridiculous question apologize but have always been curious, what would be different if the various editions of bibles didn't exist?
Why is their a Hustler magazine? There is a market for it.
not a good point. If i want my earthy goods distributed after my death what do i leave behind? a will. If i have a lot of stuff and i am a locquacious type individual i may leave a video tape and what appears like a small book. My point is that the INVISIBLE god leaves something UNinvisible behind, his book or will if you like, depends on how you wanna read it.
Yes it was written by man. Moses stretched forth his hand and the sea parted then god went before the camp a pillar of flame at night (for light) and cloud (for shade) during the day. Countless other amazing works did god do right up to the book of malachi. Then god gave his only begotten son that whosoever believe in him should have everlasting life.. but how would he do that? A book. When you are in school you read history books, english books, science books and you accept them by faith that they are the right book you need to understand what school is trying to teach you. A book and faith is all you have in school plus a visible teacher. Well christians have the holy spirit which is just as tangible, oh.. and a book, an amazing book actually. An incredible book really, if you have eyes to see and ears to hear and a heart that wants to believe.
I hope this is a better point. god bless you according to his will and purpose in your life according to who god is and what god stands for.
I think this question has been asked a lot. Not only here, but everywhere. Is it ridiculous? No. It is mundane, if you know what I mean. I don't know why there needs to be a bible. I don't no why we don't need a bible either. Quite truthfully- the question cannot be answered. Nobody knows the why or why not's of owning, creating, having, purchasing, reading, etc..., the bible. Hi Kim- that is just how I feel about it. It is kinda like the Jesus/Homosexual thread. I mean, really, anybody here over 2000 years old, who looks a lot like Jesus? That maybe could shed some light of this, and other questions like it?
Because it has some very important truths in it that are eternal. Although a lot of the rest of it is questionable.
Because a whole lot of people regarded the records of their sacred tradition worth preserving in writing and compiling into a book.
You need a book of rules to get more people following your faith,
you have to give them something.
human beings love rules !
Its more than a book it is a way of life when used properly. People need something that tells them how to be good and not just an animal and so there you have it...The Bible! Alot of people now days think they are to smart or have all of the answers and couldn't possibly need something so old. Wisdom is old and there is alot to be learned by the stories from the Bible. Faith is definatley important but if no one ever gave you an idea of what to believe you would be lost... BELIEVE THAT!
So many judgemental and dont even know it.Dont need your judging or your damnation.We need a new idea to save all the nations.Living in sin,hateful for long,confusing the good as to what is so wrong.Children are learning evil is strong peace and love pushed away for to long.Our minds have been changing losing their song. Light been denied to follow foolish ones dawn.
Starting to feel it but where do they go? Lied to for years and movements to slow.The world is talking and through the clouds he shows the light is still there and soon we will know.A peace has been missing and stress ruled the way. The war of the night been brought into day.The waves are all crashing the bees fly away,remember that he promised renewal one day.The times are right now don't lie to yourself.Don't close your eyes long or put your heart on a shelf.There still are ones with feeling abound although it just seems like theres no one around.Resist all the fear and the strife goes away the beauty comes back and lights up the day.The fog on your eyes quickly washes away and inside you know he wants it that way.I call on my God to save all the strays and knock back the games the evil one plays.Our future is bright no stress will be there inside you will know he really did care.Its written and happening right now as we speak.More people understanding what he meant you to be.I wake up everyday and thank him for this and tell him to use me for how he sees fit.Everyday things get better and my prayers have been heard When I think of my passed it seems so obsured.The years that I wasted and wondering why could have been used for good and not just to die.I pray for you all that as you read what I say the light of Gods love will fill you today.Your dreams will come true and your pain goes away and you will call on our father to help others this way.
Written by me
There's a Bible because God decided to give it to mankind; it's that simple.
Or because a group of men decided that teaching people was easier if they had something written they could point to in order to prove a point?
People might be worshiping Aesop or Grimm, instead.
Notice how it has failed miserably in that regard.
Contrary to popular belief among athesits, it has proven them wrong. Not only them but it has proven that all men are wrong.
Not at all. A thinly veiled belief on your part.
But, to give you the benefit of the doubt, where exactly has the bible shown all men to be wrong?
Have you ever told a lie before in your life? if so, this means you are wrong and not perfect. If you say no, then you prove yourself a liar.
What does that have to do with the bible showing that all men are wrong?
I have observed believers here lying all the time to support their belief system. What of it, Sir Dent? Another deferral?
If a person lies, then they can never be trusted to be right. That is a fact and another fact is that all have lied at some point in time.
I can't speak for all believers, but I can speak for myself. I have done my best not to lie to anyone here. Of course there are times when information one use might be found out to be false.
In one of the posts above I admitted that the Bible proves me wrong also. This is where so many fail. They think they are perfect, and in need of nothing. They can have nothing if they want, but I prefer to stand where I do with Jesus helping me along the way.
Lying has nothing to do with the bible showing all men are wrong, SirDent. You've clearly gone well above your head on this one.
Lying is only one small part of it. It is the simplest to understand. Of course, if you think you are perfect, then you should will something to be done to feed those children you seem so concerned about and it will be done.
SirDent, lying need not be defined by scriptures as a moral or ethical conundrum requiring divine intervention to teach us if its right or wrong. A simple experiment will do wonders. Take any particular group of people you deal with and lie to them, take another group of people and be honest with them. The findings shouldn't startle you but let me know what you think of them and what you would do.
Perfection? I look at shapely women and see perfection. I look at rolling green hills with sharp contrasting mountains set on deep blue skies and see perfection. I look at all the wonders of nature, space, the universe and see perfection.
It's all in the eye of the beholder, don't you see, SirDent.
Perfection is not some impossible esoterically spiritual thingy one can never attain, SirDent, it's a state of mind for just being alive.
That's the point exactly, SirDent, the fact that it IS only us who will ever have the will and the capacity to do something to feed them. Jesus, along with every other god purported to exist, are not employing their omnipotent powers they used to create the universe to bring a little "daily bread" into those children short, meager lives.
And, if you ever want to feel and witness for yourself a true and believable perfection, SirDent, it will be the day we as a species take on that noble task and defeat starvation.
But, that day will never come if we keep turning to idle gods for help and thanking them for our own abundance. There is no perfection in an idle god, SirDent.
You miss the point comnpletely. I give up. Not trying to explain it to you anymore.
If you would spend half as much time trying to help those you speak of so much, there would be a lot less starving children in the world. God has given you a gift. Use it however you see fit. Then blame yourself when you see those starving kids.
I think the bible is proof that YOU are wrong!
You are right, it is poroof that I am wrong. This is why there is a need for a Savior.
How is your Mom in law? I hope that you and yours are coping well. Sincerely - that is no fun at all. And I wonder - no offense if you might find some other endeavor more productive and healthy at the moment? I know how that can mess with your head - religion and our differences aside - it is really easy to say something you didn't mean to say when under pressure.
Proof, requires evidence. The ramblings of an insane fairy from a book is hardly proof!
Many of the stories in the Bible can be proven and have been recorded in other history books. The simplest answer to the question posed is That the Bible was inspired by the Lord through the Holy Spirit, it is the history of mankind from start to finish, it is also a blueprint of Gods salvation plan.
Also it is a calander it begins about thirteen thousand years ago and end in the very near future.
No one knows the hour not the angels,only the Father. The Bible is the Word of God the Father and he gave us the Bible so that the good servant would know when to watch for he will come as a thief in the knight.
According to the Bible,
the pupose of the Bible is to come to recognize who Christ is.
It says we must come to Christ to recive eternal life.
If we dont recognize who can is, we can not recieve eternal life
God is wanted to leave for mana written record of Who God is what God is all about and what God has done and is doing for mankind. The bible is Gods written record written by the hands of man but His thoughts His ideas his words.
i agree faith is all that is needed.
Sadly, the history book (what some call Old Testament) never suggested a religious pretense, by a lifestyle based on faith, then law, then rulers(kings), prophecy and back to faith again.
The 'new portion' was added for no apparent reason accept to connect Judaism with what Roman & Greek mythology dubbed Christianity. Thus, it enabled them to keep control over the masses and create a hysteria on both sides of the coin.
If no 'edition' existed, there would be no religion, no anti-religion, no control -just faith.
great question Lyrics.
I guess I just don't get it, and never will, no offense to those that do
Why? Because we need to be reminded of what's important. In these difficult times it is fast becoming common belief that we are "entitled" to certain rights and privileges. This has started us on a road to apathy. With apathy when we get the slightest hardship we whine and complain that we are being picked on. It then becomes a matter of self pity and self pride. It is in times like these that we need to read, memorize and reflect on the story of Job. That's where we make our comparison between our lives and the paramount characters and events in the scriptures.
The scriptures are often mistakenly believed to be of "dead" words of which nothing can be learned from. However, I assert that the scriptures are a living resource for us. They are there to help us in our living.
The parable of the ten virgins can give huge insight into the doctrine of emergency preparedness.
David and Goliath can uplift and inspire us to overcome those obstacles in life that seem to be overwhelming.
The Exodus and wonderings of the Hebrews can teach us scores about humility and standing strong.
Coriantumr and Shiz can teach us loads about tolerance, understanding and the ramifications, to even nations, of our adverse actions in life.
Faith is not an equal sign. Faith does not remain on a level plateau. It fluctuates according to our personal effort to strengthen it. Faith is as a seed. It must be planted, nourished and kept protected in order for it to grow. Part of it being nourished is our works and the implementation of scriptural doctrines in our lives. Constant study, reflection and implementation of the scriptures is vital to keeping our focus on what's important in life.
There has never been a greater need of the scriptures as now...
but why a reminder if you already have faith in all that surrounds you? To remind you of what? Isn't true faith in the miracles that surround us - for some. Why a book about past events that give no addition to what you must already feel? Respectfully.
Because it's not past events. In order to incorporate the human teachings one must correlate the events, human emotions and learnings contained in the scriptures to those events and human emotions that are taking place in your own life. It cannot be seen as a "history" book but rather a "life" book to apply the learnings from.
As to your other point. It's easy, and has become the fad, to advocate faith in all nature and the things around you. This is good but for many is a means of not diligently searching and learning doctrines currently out there. Nature is wonderful but it is not going to cultivate and nurture your faith. Nurture requires constant learning. That constant learning results in greater humility. Greater humility results in the disolving of pride giving way to new and greater learnings of the world around you and it's purpose.
i have to disagree with you in part.
in this: Enoch, Elijah, Job, Samson, Noah, Moses, Peter -even Lot- never used a book. in fact, if it wasn't for Moses there would be no 'bible'. the lesson is faith.
to read the history and come to the place of faith is good.
but the book really doesn't do it for you.
if you had no books, and could not read -like say you were two years old, could you still understand faith, act on faith, indeed.
so the reminder is not truly necessary should you live according to that single, simple, overlooked, over analyzed word: faith.
childlike faith, my friend, childlike faith.
think of it this way: the Canadian Storytellers. fabulous people btw. They speak their stories, not write them...
I understand, however, there is other considerations. The individuals mentioned were especially selected to carry out the missions given them. They had their own trials in the which they were commanded to keep a record of all His dealing with man. They did so with foresight. In other words they did so with the knowledge that the record would be for the good and use of future generations.
About the children. Until a child reaches the age of accountability they need not repentance. A child is whole. As you said, child-like faith. We are to be as pure as a child in conjunction with our knowledge and willingness to strive toward progression. A child nurtures in faith according to what the parent teaches them, not nature. They have a living example of what they should be. We, as accountable people, are given examples as well even though vast numbers of us fail to adequately study and learn from them.
The scriptures were never meant to be a normal book but rather a living appendage to your own life. That's the meaning of "inspired of God". Something truly inspired has everlasting use and implications but it is up to us, individually, to put forth the effort to instill them into our lives.
they were not chosen by process of selection, but chose themselves to live by faith.
and that same faith we are called to live by, yes?
that is the faith of Abram, Enoch and others.
It was THEIR faith in Him that made those things occur.
As for the book. It is a history book not a how-to guide.
This is one of my biggest issues with theology.
Tor`ah or Talmud called Old Testament by 'believers' is a history of primarily Hebrew society. Very little mention of 'gentile' societies, apart from Egypt & Babylonian.
So again, we really do not need the 'bible' we need to do what we were told: walk by faith not by sight /walk in spirit not in flesh.
i really believe children have it and we lost it...
Isn't it also the largest selling book in the world-most copies I mean yearly?
yep, we sure do need a 'god" thing that orders the murder of tens of thousands of "it's" innocent creations: men, women, the unborn, their pets and cattle ...and...allows the rape of children!
Then to add insult to injury this psychotic "god" thing orders the murder of everyone!....'cept noah, the family and "other life."
Now pls tell me what "sane" human being would desire a "monster concept," like this murderous "god" thing, to exist in his mind?
The "insane!" That's who!
Qwark there is a difference between humans and gods. There is even different definitions for the two words. They are not one in the same.
Man kills. Not God. Mankind.... Huge difference.
You are so right!
This "god" thing exists only in the minds of murderous, predatory man!
So this "god thing" doesn't kill, it just orders the murder and rape of others...
you are right on!
This imagined biblical "god" thing is a psychotic piece-of-work! :-)
I just can't get it either, oh well, been doing ok so far, just wondered about the book, makes no sense, but truly does to others, so to each his own I suppose.
lyrics - First of all .. I want to tell you that I usually avoid speaking in religious forumns because of the ugly comments so many post ... I have no time for ugliness .. it is not who I am. I sense sincerity in this question and I like your heart... So here's a little something from my heart to yours.
In the book of Romans .. God says .. "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of God" When a person picks up the Bible, to explore it ... faith grows in the heart. Faith is not something you can see ... it's like the wind that blows here and there ... not seen but very real.
Love Ya Girl ...
then how was Faith accounted to Abram as righteousness?
He had no bible, no "old testament".
In fact, no one did until the late 16th century.
Dear twenty-one days, I am not an intellectual ... from your comments I can tell that you are dear sir... I may not have an answer to satisfy your intellectual mind ... I will take a stab at it in my simple way ... I do know that the Bible says that God spoke directly to Abraham's during this time. He did not need the written word... the word was with him. HIstory tells us that God gave moses the 10 commandments on Mount Sinai.
It is commonly known that Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible. HIstorical writings have recorded that forty people on different continents wrote the entire Bible over a period of at least 1500 years... most of whom never knew each other.... God tells all scripture is inspired ... meaning God breathed... God moved men to pen His words. O.T. scriptures were completed by 400 B.C. The Greek translation of that known as the septuagint was used in Jesus Day. Don't know if I answered your question??? ONce again ... disclaimer ... not an intellect. Have suggestions of books for intellects ... however .... if interested. KNow of an agnostic and athiest who set out to disprove the Bible by reading it... Very interesting stuff.
Mekenzie, very nice to 'meet' you.
I know this. My point was the Word -which spoke to Abram, Enoch, Adam, etc etc- was not the written words most are familiar with today. Tor`ah or OT was written primarily to explain why faith is more important than law/written explanations & why ritual practices cannot bring any person closer to Him. (our own Hebrew history proves that).
As for the anti-theists/atheists/agnostics, etc what they are attempting is futile. Trying to disprove history & lineage (OT) or existence of Y`shua (NT) is -IMO- silly and a waste of time. History records these events from a few different perspectives, as you said.
My perspective is: 'Okay, read the books if necessary, but more important: live by Spirit'.
Twenty, So very nice to meet you too!
I see that you do believe but that your belief is in being led by the Spirit ... is that correct? It's sometimes hard to communicate through writing..
Here are some thoughts I had after reading your response. Faith is only as good as the object it is in ... and must be validated by truth. not my truth, your truth ... it is THE truth ... which I see as being God's Word.
The Bereans in the book of Acts were commended for searching the scriptures and examines them every day to see if what Paul said was true. They tested the validity of those teaching them. I also thought of 2 Timothy 2:15 "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth."
My premise is believing that God's Word is Holy and He is the ultimate author. 2Peter 1:21 " For these words did not ever come through the impulse of men: but the prophets had them from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit."
I don't see the Bible as being all about rules and laws... though we do need direction .... but it is alot about who God is how He works and how He thinks about us ... He is Father ... It's alot about Jesus and His teachings and his life and His ultimate sacrifice on the Cross..
2 Timothy 3:10-17 ... I believe is a great summary of why we have God's word... 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is God Breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking and training in righteousness so that the man of God may be thoughly equiped for every good work." As I read this verse I just plain .... believe it ... ALL scripture is God Breathed meaning it's not written by mere mortal men but Holy men of old were used by God (who is spirit) to write it down... God Bless YOU!
and you are correct, my full belief is being let by The Spirit whom Y`shua send to lead us into all Truth. Well said.
I am somewhat rigid when it comes to what is referred to as 'the bible', because aft years of studying Tor`ah & the letters of what's called New Testament, the truth revealed was: not one verse, line, letter could truly bring me Life. Only that same Spirit that raised Y`shua from the dead could raise me from the dead as well.
It is challenging to explain this to people -from family to strangers along the avenues of churches, denominations and a brief stop over in the ministry...
Funny, cuz Dean (cheaptrick) called my card on it...lol
We do agree dear twenty that it is the Spirit of God that draws one to God and it is the Spirit that teaches us to observe all things... whatsoever He has commanded us....
Thanks for a good interchange of thoughts... Bless you now as you Walk in the Spirit! :-)
@ Mekenzie ... I agree with you concerning what Timothy said. The only problem with that is that .. Someone coming along afterwards can add to scripture and we assume that this also falls under the quise of inspired word of God
Now let us assume that the beast that John saw rising up out of the sea (Rev 13) would add to scripture and proclaim that this also is the inspired word of God.
According to scripture this is exactly what he is going to do ... (Already has done???)
Yea that too... times and laws. I think that they have been. Gods messenger angel Gabriel said it would be so.
Let me ask.... ??
If I have been properly deceived would I know it ?
You wouldn't either !
So how do we know that we haven't been ?
The beast (REV 13) is goina /or "did" fool most everybody.
Yea I'm asking "EVERYBODY" to ask yourselves. ??
If he has already been here and done that; how would you know ???
We know He Loves us.
We know we Love Him.
We know He is merciful to those who Love Him and who carry a heart fixed on Him.
He has promised to save us.
He's a Promise-Keeper.
If we can't be secure in the knowledge of Him and His promises, we can't be sure of anything.
I say we can be sure of Him. I say we can be sure that we Love Him, because it's not only a possibility that we're one of His, it's a choice we make.
"Will the Son of Man find faith?"
You will have been deceived if you are led to disregard the revealed will of God. Law. What happened to Eve.
Hence the beast cannot change law, only THINK to change times and laws.
That's why we need the Bible. The revealed will of God. Stick to the Bible and you wont be deceived.
and that Jerami IS the question.
how is one to know:
by the work of faith within them, the fruit which they bear.
the prophets reward is what? the fruit of prophecy, the coming to pass of a thing.
the reward of faith is what? righteousness and the gifts of the Spirit.
what is the gift of the spirit: love
thus fulfilling the law and prophets -the Word in you, having unconditional love -one for another; because the seed of faith is measured to all men and each tree shall bear fruit or not. Those that bear fruit prosper, those that do not are cut down and burned with fire, so that a new tree may grow in its place.
righteousness = right doing, just, hence the word justified. So justified by faith.
Abraham's works (obeying the command of God) credited to him as righteousness. Abraham exercised faith in God in his decision.
well said and correct. hence my point of saying: no need for a book called bible.
interesting enough, more and more are seeing this daily.
as another Hubber so emphatically stated: people are dropping out of churches, giving up their membership cards to seek out Purity (righteousness) by that faith.
If you are a person who looks at enigma/prophecy, you'll see this was to come. soon there will be a generation spotless/blameless with no sin found in them -one born fully of water & Spirit- beyond consciousness of sin...
To codify the revealed will of God for education, transmission etc is important.
The founder of the Christian religion grew up in a religion where every boy by time age 11 knew all of Leviticus by heart.
"He hath shown thee o man"
Nature and revelation. Revelation includes Written Word.
Need to exercise faith to see and understand God in nature and revelation.
i cannot fully support revelation via written word, because many instance in Tor`ah prove otherwise. The Word was revealed by Spirit to those from Adam to Y`shua. Take Job, long before Mosaic writing, the Word revealed itself to him by Job's faith.
It is revealed to those who trust the Spirit.
Evidence of the Revealed Will (that is Y`shua in the flesh) is by action of faith, manifesting those things of Spirit -for the sake of the unbelieving, the hearer.
Therefore, hear the Word and do.
Else deceiving one's self and remain a slave (conscious) of sin.
What is a slave to do but what their master tells them?
I think it's a great question. Considering that the Big Three base their beliefs at least partially on at least portions of the varying bibles, it is very relevent.
I think it has a lot to do with the power of the written word, and the lure of it as well. I mean, some people feel a need to write.
If it wasn't the bible as we know it, there would still be a bible, only a different one.
The thing is, I guess, when are we going to put away these childish things.
The bible is to govern and keep people from acting like the evolved animals that they are. Some people are too lazy and dependent to form their own individual belief, so they follow others belief.
I tried to read every post since "my" last one.....
Sorry guys.... The more intelligent that you make yourselves sound; the dizzier I get trying to understand what you are attempting to say.
When will we ever understand that the more intelligent we perceive ourselves to be, the stupider we get.
And bloomin hilarious! Not a single complete thought process! Oh this is beautiful! Gonna hang it on the wall! What a lot of half baked dust this is!
@ Jerami, again, written word has ability and to an extent power.
Timothy and company (who, by all terminology, were gnostic) were told to study Tor`ah in order to speak to the Hebrew 'big-wigs'.
Paul, Peter and John stressed that the 'letter' of the law was what kept all man in prison (which i aptly call the Need To Know Factory). Slaves to the written rule book.
I just had this conversation with someone. Before the written words, men lived by faith -by every word that proceeded from the mouth of the Creator. Every word. Because every word is what framed all the worlds.
Sadly, aft 2000+ years, man still remains sin-conscious.
remove all consciousness of sin & death walk in Spirit. The truth is then automatic, no need to 'learn the truth' because we will be one with the Truth/the Word.
I would have to agree with these things that you have said; not only these but many others as well.
I have been focusing mostly on the prophetic message as written in scripture, for these have revealed to me much of what you and many others have been saying. You may think sometimes that I am disagreeing when I am not. Just expressing the some thing but from a diffrent prospective.
Because God had trouble getting his kids to sleep so he wrote a handful of bed time stories for them, but then other people thought they were real events and took that raw public domain material and made money out of it....shame on all that is holy!
No, there is a bible because a lot of ignorance allowed a few sicko's to control others and dictate their lives to them. It is still happening right here, right now.
I live by rules without any bible drivel.
I don't like rules that involve something that does not exist telling me I need to follow rules like kill everyone who doesn't agree with me.
I have much nicer rules to live by thanks!
Hi Tantrum! The V apparently moved on my keyboard to where the B was!
It does have a certain something now you mention it!
It looks great ! I'm going to call it that from now on !
Cool! You always were a rebel! I love that!
And now I'm also a pitbull.
a hubber who's banned from the forums gave me the name
Hey pitbull! What a lovely name! Religionists do have a way with words.... especially abusive ones!
I don't even know if she was a 'religionist'
But I can tell you that this lady doesn't like me at all !
Everyone loves you Tantrum! She HAS to be a religionist!
But a lot of people don't ! and I like it that way. It's more 'entertaining' !
Same thing happened to me but I prayed and it was miraculously fixed.
Did I mention I have a new computer? Just need to get this bloody new keyboard indoctrinated!
Thank you hokey! You always have an answer to my problems!
It wasn't me. At first I thought it was Him but I realized it was my friends parakeet. Boy was I disappointed!!!!
You weren't commanded to kill everyone who doesn't agree with you. Nobody was. And no Bible verse you dig up as "proof" says that either.
There is no verse that says, "Kill everyone who disagrees with you."
yea those are called man made religions, and you know who are the most affected by them, women
no shit the bible is on line too? I need a drink. But I have no bible - isn't that what it's for? Im so confused.
After I discovered this I had to crack a beer myself. Thought maybe wine would be more appropriate but we do what we can.
A good friend of mine has the centre cut out and hides his oldest Scotch there! Nobody ever finds it!
A friend of "mine" ?? hides his scotch there and nobody has found "my" scotch yet ????
Gives a whole new meaning to baptism dont you think?
Books are printed and distributed so that others may read them. It's as simple as that. Unless the book is ousted by the ever-evolving moral zeitgeist of a particular nation it is available to legally be promoted by others to read.
The Bible is necessary if not just for the fact that it is crucial to understand much of the history of certain peoples, civilisations and their actions including but not limited to their laws, folklore, how certain conflicts came to be instigated and also the literature and art they produced.
...Revelation is not to be taken literally, at least most of it.
Revelation is a warning. It warns us not to be deceived. And if you're meaning a reference to being "left behind"......I don't think that's a literal one-time event at all, and not even a literal event, except on the on-going basis of the fact that the Lord comes for someone (many) every single day. We just gotta be ready. We must keep our hearts fixed on Him.
I think that the timeline that is described in the book of Revelation can be taken literally. A timeline comparison was given in Daniel that also applies with Revelation
the symbols described in these visions (Rev.) should be seen as meaning the same as those same symbols that were seen and then interpreted by Gabriel as in the book of Daniel.
To understand Gabriel's interpretations as given in Daniel while refraining from further interpreting them will enable us to understand the book of Revelation with much more clarity.
But this is just an opinion.
just a reminder: Y`shua fulfilled BOTH the law and the prophets -Daniel included.
some mistake Paul's statement in using the gifts of the Spirit in that they should prophecy. But this prophecy was not of things to come but of the one who had come and fulfilled all-in-all.
At the time that Paul made those statements Jesus had fulfilled all but one prophesy concerning him. His coming again during that generation that he spoke to.
Also Jesus foretold that that Hebrew nation shall fall by the edge of the sword and be lead away captive until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
there is no 'all but one' because He fulfilled all law & prophecy.
the 'time of the gentiles' is also referred to as the time of Jacobs trouble.
what was Jacobs' trouble?
Off the top of my head I would have to assume that this is referring to the times after God told him to leave his homeland.
Or this is to be talking about a great tribulation that Jesus told Peter James, John and Andrew that they were going to endure.
Well, let's look at history. Jacob who is called Isra`el.
Jeremiah speaks of this and states: he will be saved of it.
(the word saved in Hebrew is the same word for salvation we know today).
it is interesting to note that this time period was a time which BOTH Judah & Israel were going through tribulation/trouble. That He would save them both.
Why both Judah (son of Jacob) and Israel (Father of Judah)?
give you a hint: the groaning would be like NO OTHER, but they would be saved of it. What are the groaning of the spirit, like those of a woman in labor...
There were many prophesy directed at that Hebrew Nation that ceased to exist around 135 to 138 AD. These prophesy were fulfilled before they ceased to exist as a nation.
don't want anyone thinking that I'm ignoring them.
It's about time for me to fall down till mornin.
No rest for the weary... gotta go fix stuff on other peoples housed some more tomorrow mornin. so good night ..Yaul.
As stated in my hub about absolutism in religion, the bibles are important because they are like the first math books. The ones that taught us addition and subtraction. Without first learning how to add and subtract we could not ever learn things like algebra, geometry, calculus and so on.
They are not the know all and end all that people want them to be however. We(humanity) have progressed to a level where addition and subtraction are no longer enough, we need new books, books that teach us advanced math, maybe even long division, and multiplication...
In My Humble Opinion...
The Bibles must evolve just like the math books do.
The bible is needed so we can see who is nuts and reads it.
Well I apologise, you are obviously an expert on the subject!
Earnest, proud to be nuts right along side ya buddy
btw what thread is this
This is why we have a Bible. "You have to watch what your doin"
It is "Why is there a bible" ... a fine question!
Nice to see you!
Just in case these guys didn't see it elsewhere. an encore.
Cliff Richard and Larry Norman! Rare Performance two songs.
Cliff doesn't seem to age does he? He looked so fit in this clip.
Though penned by scribe, the Bible was dictated by the words of Christ. It is a living testament of the sacrifice of Jesus, and the standard to live by in order to become true servents of God.
Religion existed before Jesus. Therefore, you statement cannot possibly be true.
And, on another point- Jesus knew Religion's "god" was false.
Religion existed before Jesus, but nobody said the Bible was the scripture for all religions.
The Bible, this includes ALL BIBLES or are you just being foolish for some reason?
Religion's "GOD" concept existed before Jesus. Thus, anything after Jesus deems Religion's "GOD" as false, makes it lies.
Jesus knew Religion's "GOD" concept was a lie.
Is that a better understanding for you? Or does it need to be explained in more detail for you?
God dictated to moses thats why it took 40 days on the mount. Solomon wrote proverbs. Im just naming a few because really you could google this information. Isaiah was dictated to isaiah, lol... the gospel of the new testament was dictated to the disciples of christ, lets see what are the names of the books, oh yah, matthew, mark, luke and john.. thats right, god dictated these books to the people who the books are named after lol. Paul wrote a bunch of books or letters and so did Peter, probably 1 and 2 peter. lol.
need i explain it anymore?
People's memories aren't that good. They had to write it down to remember it all. : )
Back to the original question. A complete answer would take at least a book, and what follows is necessarily from the point of view of the Christian faith, particularly as held and practiced by the Christian community, although others that don't share that faith still sometimes find wisdom in the Bible.
Understanding the Bible depends on understanding the relationship between God and humankind. We can't know God in his essence -- that would require actually being God. We can know him as he chooses to reveal himself to us. This he has done in a variety of ways, but all in and through human experience, culminating in the Incarnation: God becoming human in the person of Jesus. The history of God's revelation of himself is recorded in the Bible, but as experienced by humans. The first transmission of these records was of course oral. Eventually they were written down, some sooner (Paul), some later (gospels, much of the OT).
The writings took many forms: chronicles, moral precepts, compilations of wisdom and lore, poetry, letters, targeted messages, stories told to make a point. Their assembly into a single collection took much time and a great deal of sorting out. The title itself comes from the Greek "ta biblia -- the books," thus more nearly a library bound into a single volume. The belief of the church, here meaning the entire Christian community under the leadership of the apostles and their successors, was that the whole process, from the revelatory events and meditations, to their being passed on orally and then recorded in writing, to the gathering and sorting of the writings, was guided by God through the presence of his spirit in the church, individually and collectively.
The Bible, then, is part of the tradition which is the life of the church. Tradition literally means receiving something passed down, and then handing it on. For the Christian community the Bible is a living source of its faith and life as it tries to respond to God's revelation of himself to humans. But it exists precisely as part of humans' efforts to make that response, by remembering, doing, and then passing on the faith.
I want everyody to know that I'm not as stupid as I think that I am either.
I agree. I have not seen any explanation and very little concern about the starving masses from religionists.
I would have thought the plight of these children would be heart wrenching to everyone!
It is. But nothing commands atheists to give a rat's rear. So why do you care, except to use the fact that children starve as an indictment against believers?
It's an indictment against everyone, especially against people who use the plight of the poor to put down other people.
It's an indictment against your gods who do nothing but serve the prayers and whims of those who believe such nonsense while others starve to death in abject poverty.
It's an indictment against those who thank their gods.
I thought sin was the indictment, because sin is why the world is where it is. God revealed himself to humans, eve said no thanks and adam joined right along, hence the indictment is that animal man makes his own decisions, rules and does what he wants. That's the indictment. The fact that people starve is probably because the amount of money the food for africa corps (for example) spends on administration is outrageous and only a small percentage of food for starving people is purchased. Perhaps a corrupt government is fleecing its people with taxes and depricating an otherwise affluent lifestyle?
Now you blame God but really animal man is pulling the strings. Now you want God to step in and make things as though mankind never sinned, by taking the reigns and running the food for africa corps and your country that overtaxes you. How about god speak to you through his book and holy spirit and you be the holiest person on the planet and do things right! Then talk to me about what god isn't doing properly.
Hey, my God told everyone to feed the poor. If you don't listen, it's your fault.
Why doesn't your god feed them? You shouldn't be getting the lions share of his attention. Perhaps, you and yours are high maintenance, hence he has to spend his time on you rather than feeding them.
I don't remember the chapter and verse but God is said to have proclaimed that when a country has ungodly leaders that the people will suffer. So I guess that the leaders of those countries that so many are starving are responsible for those circumstance that that country is enduring.
Que.... you seem to be doing the exact thing that you accuse everyone else of doing. Blaming God when things don't go the way that you think that it should and taking credit when they do.
You need to admit that you just like to argue.
I once had a child like that.
Some of those leaders are Christians, Jerami, maybe even more "godly" than you.
Of course, your holy book has all the answers. Your devious little god has already foretold such events and relishes in their daily plight, doing nothing all the while.
You don't comprehend very well sometimes, Jerami.
Really? Isn't that nice. Must have been a smart kid.
To some here those children represent a test of their faith, that they were placed here to live and starve for the Mormon's sake.
The Bible fortels of famine and pestilence and war, everyone is aware of these situations including the religionist.
The world only makes sense when taking into consideration Biblical explenation such as sin and brothrly love, forgiveness.
There is to much love for money and not enough love for our brothers and sisters, are we not our brothers keeper and this includes our sisters. The Bible is a book with many sides to it theres a moral and spiritual side the history aspect and finaly the prophetic aspect of it.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
God bless us all.
The bible came about when two rival arms of Christianity met in Rome. An agnostic preacher came up with the idea of combining the old testament with new testament writings that pushed forward his agnostic Christian beliefs. The Catholics took this as a challenge to their authority and so had to come up with a book that also combined the old testament with new testament writings. The Catholic version has survived and is what we today call the bible. The gnostic version as far as I know did not survive though certainly parts of it did. That's it in a nutshell.
too nutty of a shell...no links, no backup, no quotes, no reference points except your own opinion. I give it a 2 outta 10. Your summation of the "catholic version surviving and is what we call the bible", is clearly YOUR opinion and i don't happen to share your opinion. You come across very matter of fact and i am not buying your condensed assumption that the non catholic version of the bible didn't survive. My king james canonized bible is doing just fine, with even the NIV right behind it in sales. I have to order a catholic bible with apocrypha included because it is not on the shelves, and i do have one because i enjoy a good chuckle from time to time.
Your King James version of the bible is based on the catholic version. The Protestant movement was concerned with everyone being able to read the bible and make up their own minds about it. Not until the 19th Century did protestant scholars wonder about the bible's authenticity or looked around for what examples there might still be of writings about Christ that didn't make it into the New Testament.
The King James bible came about when it was decided that the English should have an official state approved version of the bible in the language of the people. There had been earlier English language versions of the bible not that different from the King James but they were not state sanctioned and were generally speaking underground versions. The penalty for having a non-approved English version of the bible was death.
The King James bible is an English language version with a few touches here and there to move with the times and to make King James the first of England and the 6th of Scotland happy. For example they changed for him the line: 'Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live' to 'Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live'. This also went with the politics of the day. King James thought himself an expert on the evils of witchcraft and had even written a book on the subject.
Yes since then the King James bible has been further modernized. At its roots, however, like other Protestant bibles it is based on what catholics decided should go in and what should stay out of the New Testament. As far as I know the old testament writings were not interfered with at all.
By the time of King James not many people would have known much about the Gnostics or Gnostic Christianity. The scholars of the day were fine with Latin and with Greek. They may have also been fine with Hebrew. I doubt very much that they would have had access to documentation either ignored or savagely put down by the Western Church just before the time of Constantine onwards. (Constantine also altered the focus of Christianity when he made it his state religion.)
No. The Protestant scholars firmly believed in the bible as they knew it. They saw their task firmly as simply taking what they have always known as the truth and, being as careful and as accurate as they could while remaining in the king's good graces, presenting it to people who could not read Latin and had very little idea about the Greek language.
Check out The testament of Saint Thomas and also The testament of Mary for two items that did not make the Catholic cut and cannot be found in Protestant or Catholic bibles.
There are other examples. Some bits and pieces of what didn't make the cut survive to this day. Other examples do not. The catholic authorities in the early centuries tried very hard to destroy all documents relating to Christ that did not agree with their points of view. The catholics were strongly opposed to the idea of reincarnation though not all Christians or early Christian documents were so opposed.
For further details look up the documentary Jesus the Evidence. It is also available in paperback form. I know you are comfortable with your own theology and like the Catholics you sound like someone who can't stand the light of what history is still able to show us. Strangely enough it is the Protestants that are at the forefront of discovering the true Jesus.
@Rod Marsden Thanks for a simply stated truth.
What would religion be like today if a diffrent set of writtings had been accepted into the cannon.
When the family tree of religion is examined... We find that all Christian denominations has one Mother.
The Church that Constantine built.
This Church was built upon SOME truth as its foundation.
And it left out SOME truth for whatever reasons that it had.
Thanks Jerami. You got it in one. Those bishops who did not agree with Christianity according to Constantine were banished to the far corners of the empire. Those who stubbornly preached ideas that went against mainstream Christianity in Constantine's empire got the death penalty. Yes the Church Constantine built was based on some truth and had some truth as its foundation. And as for what was left out or put down as blasphemous, well, we can follow some of the politics but not all of it. The Catholic or universal church did a pretty good job of destroying what they felt had to be destroyed and it has only been in the last 200 years that scholars have tried to piece together the remains.
Exclusivity club(bible thumpers use it like a club)
Hey Earnest, I know this isn't on topic, but are you planning on staying at 69 hubs?
I struggle with this, given it is man written and contains tales that cannot be proven.
If someone has faith could that not be enough?
what would be different if the various editions of bibles didn't exist?
hi lyricsingray, i have to disagree with you strongly.
how can u have faith without the Rhema Word?
what u read n understand is only Logos word, which has no life
but only head knowledge.
there is a big difference between a living word and a printed word, between a breath-given Word and an ordinary spoken word.
whether there is a bible or not, that's not the main issue.
for our modern convenience, like washing machine n a coffee maker,it is the same whether i make my own coffee with my hand or use the machine; it tastes almost the same.
it's the same whether i hear the Word direct from Jesus's mouth at the mount of olives or hear the preacher preached or read for myself from the bible..it tastes n sound the same.
the difference is how i hear n receive it in my heart, as a Rhema Word or a Logos word.
the bible says...
"in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God"John1
to my dear sister,this is what i like to say to u...
God cares for you. You must turn to Him always, depending on Him.
He'll surely help you; He'll never fail you.
His love endures forever. You're very precious in His sight.
You're special to God. He accepts you as you are.
His love for you is Agape love, a fatherly love.
He's gentle and longsuffering.
He even counts every hair on your head...really!
He sends a guardian angel to protect you when you sleep,
even wherever you may go.
Your well-being is in the centre of His heart.
If God is your father, you can be sure He'll take good care of you.
Although you cannot see Him with your natural eyes,
He is always there watching over you,
for our God never slumber.
So get to know your heavenly Father by reading His Word -the bible -
about His love and nature, and all the great promises He has prepared for you.
His love for you is so great, that when His presence touches you,
you'll melt and just cry...because it's beyond expressions.
So the Lord is saying....
Knowing Me just by My name
and knowing Me truly,
like knowing My feelings and My character
are totally two different things.
Reading the bible with true understanding
Do not use human strength to think,
but allow Me to open your heart,
open your mind
to new revelations and discoveries.
There're many truths in the bible
that mere human eyes cannot see.
I desire your undivided and true love from your heart,
and not something you've to do as a routine
in order to please Me.
What really matters to Me
is your heart and feelings towards Me.
Everybody has done something bad in his/her life.
Apostle Paul also did many wrong things that hurt My heart,
but still I not only forgave him but used him for My kingdom.
I see things differently.
What are bad can become good in My perfect time and will.
I just want people to come back to Me,
and be with Me, to dwell in My presence,
and have fellowship and relationship with Me.
Therefore walk your life together with Me.
People tend to leave Me out of their lives,
because they don't realise how much I actually notice them,
and care and love them.
I AM not some dictator being stuck to My throne,
sitting in heaven and doing nothing.
On the contrary, I AM always alert,
and ever ready to talk to you
if only you give Me the chance.
My child, be simple, have a little faith,
and only believe,
and you'll find it easier to draw closer to Me.
Our souls are cleansed through obedience to God's truth in God's Word.
You purify yourself by obeying the truth,
obeying God's voice in God's Word.
The truth of God's Word has life, gives life and nourishes life.
Wrong attitudes in our hearts make us
lose appetite for the pure word of God.
When we stop feeding on the Word of God,
we stop growing, and we stop tasting
the grace that we find in the Lord.
Obedience is a constant dependence on a moment by moment fellowship with God.
It is trust in God's will.
It is joy of hearing God's voice, which gives the strength.
God's voice gives power to obey His Word.
The heart of God is in His voice, in His Word.
Thanks for listening.
May God comforts you and strengthens you
by His Spirit and through His Word.
May your mind be enlightened by His Word,
and His peace and assurance be with you.
ok that qualify' as a hub, seriously im too sleepy too read that much josh
give a gal a break ok?
why don't u read it in two or three sittings.. instead of cramming it all into one quick read. You are a bit nuts arent ya. No wonder you cant understand the bible if your reading habits are like you say they are. There's a thing called study or meditation.. not the meditation of the world which wants you to empty your mind of all thoughts, you may have already done that, but a meditation where you ponder, mull over, get the words into your head and think about them, lttle by little, line upon line... slowly with purpose. It is actually a pretty good post, better than the cheap one liners we get in here from our usual people who think they know it all.
She happens to be a friend, and I don't think you calling her nuts is justified.
I've written two hubs recently, both on "Ignorance". One is a poem. Thank you for asking.
LOL Considering your profile statement, that is rich.
So - I take it you are yet another one here just to spread the hatred? Great..........
sorry lyricsingray, a beautiful name.
God really loves u.
Give Him a chance n see your life changed forever.
sleep well n sweet dreams
more importantly, how do they make the paper that thin!
by exquisitestill 8 years ago
I love the bible, enjoy reading many scriptures but when things get rough I always turn to one scripture...Jeremiah 29:11 "I know the Plans I have for you, declares the Lord. Plans to Prosper you and NOT Harm you, Plans to give Hope and a Future".So what Scripture gets you through the...
by retellect 2 years ago
Why are the Gospels so important to the Christian faith?
by grinnin1 7 years ago
I'm just interested in the answer to this question. Sometimes I think we become so defensive about what we believe (I've been following some particularly nasty threads this evening) that we stop asking questions, close our minds, and forget the big picture. Belief and faith are a part of my...
by Grace Marguerite Williams 3 years ago
Why do some people actually contend that the bible is the word of God when any logicalperson knows that the bible has been interpreted, reinterpreted, written, rewritten, and even altered by men according to the suited purposes of the religious authorities at a particular time?
by Motown2Chitown 5 years ago
I am often puzzled by the behavior of those of us who insist on an always literal interpretation of Holy Scriptures - especially the Bible among Christians. Why insist that Scripure must be interpreted literally and adhered to as the infallible word of God while at the same time rejecting...
by nightwork4 7 years ago
why are some people on here obsessed with god?every question they ask or answer has to do with god. is this an obsession or are they trying to prove their love and faith?
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