FYI, there is a convention of atheists in Melbourne Australia in 2 days. Here is a direct quote from their webpage...
"The bigger we can make this convention, the stronger the signal it will send to Australia's religious and political institutions that atheism and secularism are forces to be reckoned with."
See you in Melbourne!
Why do I call it a CHURCH? Well, they are organizing themselves in direct opposition, IE the same as, only at the other end of the spectrum.
This should be fun (dah ) I mean, Interesting.
Because you don't know the definition of a church?
Hey - thanks for promoting this dj. I will spread the word.
You are - of course - misusing the word "church," but that is only because you cannot conceive of anyone NOT having a religion and mistakenly call lack of belief in an invisible super being "religion."
Sold out I see. Lots and lots of people sick and tired of listening to you guys huh? Great.
I am surprised you did not know about it. Heck, I expected you would have been a delegate.Maybe even a guest speaker. (for your zealand committment are legendary.)
"Misusing the word church"? I don't think so. You do know what it really means, ye?
Ah well - this might come as a shock, but it is all my own personal stuff and I am not a member of any organizations.
I see where these guys are coming from though and it is about time we stood up to the BS from religions.
Like I said - you would not understand that my lack of belief is not a "religion," because you cannot understand that some of us do not subscribe to a "religion."
No "religion" - no "church".
Oh and the whole difference between REAL Christians and them other ones. Easy - the moment you quote the bible at me - you are one of them others.
Here are my thoughts ... The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
If the atheists/secualrites oppose anything that is not of the spirit then they are doing us a favor, however much we may dislike it/them or being told we are not living up to our ideals/beliefs. Their motives may not be pure, but they are not necessarily wrong. If, as in Habbakuk, God can use the Chaldeans ...
However those who actually oppose true love, joy etc. will be utterly doomed to failure ... after all, there can be no true law against true goodness.
So perhaps our response should be, at least internally, are we, in fact, in actual fellowship with the Spirit (as evidenced by our fruit) or are we maybe fooling ourselves into thinking we are "right" just because we can make "correct" doctrinal statements.
I assure you that the reason so many people are rejecting God is, at least in part, because there are so many misrepresenting who He is in their lives. If I say I love God, whom I have not seen, and I show hatred for my brother, who I have seen, then I am a liar, and deserve to be called on it.
I don't expect non-Christians to have Christian values. I do, however expect it of those who call themselves Christians. Jesus said, "Why do you call me Lord, if you don't do what I say?"
So, it's not truly my concern what the atheists do or say. If I say I believe in freedom of speech and freedom of assembly, that has to apply to those I disagree with.
General rule of thumb ... do what you know is right, don't do what you know is wrong, let God handle the rest.
Nice to see you BD.
Long time since weconnected. I have missed you (really)!
I agree with you on this.
In fact, I agree, (in part) with the atheists gripe(s). In my own way, I oppose religion, and just about all it stands for. However, this point is ALWAYS missed by our learned(?) atheist hubbers. They still cannot see the diffrence between, "Christ followers", and Christians (as defined by religious, church attending unbelievers) I'm not sure I can ever express what I am actually trying to say.
Blindness, I think that describes it, no?
Hey DJ! Good to see you too!
If it is, in fact, blindness, then may of those of us who call ourselves Christans do them a disservice by scorning them for it.
As I was driving, I stopped at a traffic light. On the curb a couple of lanes over, I saw a blind woman standing next to a bus stop. A street cleaner (which evidently had the sound of a bus) was stopped in front of her. She kept tapping her cane on the street cleaner, and of course, no bus door opened.
How cruel it would have been for me to ridicule her for not knowing the difference between a street cleaner and a bus.
The light turned green, and both I and the street cleaner moved forward.
Ironically, the bus stop was in front of a church.
I don't understand, can you explain why you feel atheists' motives aren't pure?
Again, why would you think atheists are opposed to true love, joy etc? Atheists take joy and pleasure in the world they live in, and in their fellow human beings.
In both cases I said if ... Meaning that like anyone else I cannot know somebody's true motives. But even if it's a worst case scenario ... I'm not going to sweat it.
I just read this this morning and realized it sounds very abrupt. I posted this from my iPhone last night and it was getting frustrating because it kept suggesting words I didn't mean and so I just cut it short.
My original comments were primarily directed at Christians who get all worried about atheists in the first place. And I was actually making the point that most do, in fact, like goodness joy etc. But in those cases of those who do not ... If God does, in fact, exist, He's big enough to handle the question of his own existence, and if He does not ... eh ... I find that notion to be every bit as irrational ... but I can't expect that everyone has had my experiences.
You call it a church, because you want Atheists to argue with you.
I find it funny ! LOL!
More of the same !
that's why I don't come to religious forum more often now.
There's no point in arguing with people ignorant of what Atheism stands for !
Sorry to dissapoint you. I don't really want to argue with anyone.
But I don't back down just because you/they bring it to me.
I'd much prefer if you (all antagonists) would just stay out of my threads.
Ye, Ye, I've all the "we are free to comment wherever we like" tripe more than once.
Doesn't stop you of being an ignorant on what refers to Atheism.
So, you start a thread to "antagonize" others and then wish they would stay out of said thread because they are "antagonized"?
Neck bolts not screwed in tight enough?
Yeah, I would have to say that sounds fairly threatening too. I tend to think that religion, or non-religion for that matter, should be thwarted on no one. I just wrote a hub a couple of days ago entitled, "Religion Is Not Necessary," wherein it explores the statement made by Albert Einstein once that a man's ethics should essentially be driven by sympathy, education, and social ties; religion should not need be the basis for that. In the piece I give my take that really what we have when we talk about relgion, atheism, science, whatever, is a conundrum. We can't answer definitively whether God exists or does not, so...we have to keep an open mind. Believe in what we believe is right, but also be willing to concede that what we believe can also be false.
It is a complex issue to be sure.
Although, I strongly disagree with their points of view, I do celebrate their liberty and agency to choose their own paths in life and their right to congregate.
I hope you all have as much an uplifting time at your convention as we, Christians, do at ours. I really mean it.
I am an atheist, and though this is a 2 day convention I can see where you get it is like a Church. However, it's maybe more appropriately an Atheistic Mass though it might focus on discussion more than the prayer and rituals at say, a Catholic mass.
Atheism to me is the belief in no divinities. It is having faith that there is no god. Though I don't think this is technically a Church, as mentioned, it definitely is similar.
I don't see a problem with atheists even having a place to meet and share thoughts, which is like a Church and its Mass-a gathering of faith and sharing it. However, that would be ironic for the atheists who denounce organized religion fully.
anywhere they said they're going to oppose Christianity ? then why this insecure feeling of calling it church ?
ahhh, finally. Gog v Magog. Interesting indeed.
"we're comin` out, guns blazin`" -Al Pacino, the Devil's Advocate.
just to add a bit more:
"..I'm here on the ground with my nose in it since the whole thing began. I've nurtured every sensation man's been inspired to have. I cared about what he wanted and I never judged him. Why? Because I never rejected him. In spite of all his imperfections, I'm a fan of man! I'm a humanist. Maybe the last humanist..."
"Eddie Barzoon: take a good look.
Because he's the poster child for the next millennium!
These people, it's no mystery where they come from.
You sharpen the human appetite to the point where it could split atoms with its desire, you build egos the size of cathedrals, fiberopticly connect the world to every-eager-impulse, grease even the dullest dreams with these dollar-green gold-played fantasies until every human becomes an aspiring emperor! Becomes his own God!
Where can you go from there?
Scrambling from one deal to the next, who's got his eye on the planet? As the air thickens, the water sours, even the bees honey takes on the metallic taste of radioactivity -and it just keeps coming! And it just keeps coming! Faster and faster!
There's no chance to think, to prepare, it's `buy futures, sell futures' when there is no future!!
We've got a runaway train, boy!!
We've got a billion Eddie Barzoon's all jogging into the future. Every one of them reading to fist-f--- God's planet, lick their fingers clean as they reach out with their pristine cybernetic keyboards to total up their billable hours!!..."
-Al Pacino, the Devils Advocate.
-what a monologue.
Why would you call it a "church" it clearly says convention. Hmmm.
I don't think this will lead anywhere, it's not exactly a church, would you call any other scientific gathering a 'church'?
Technically, perhaps, as the word translated "church" into English, is from the Greek word ecclesia meaning "assembly," ...
But it's probably not accurate in modern useage. The English "church" is from the Anglo/Saxon "kirk" which originally meant "belonging to a lord" and then grew to mean "belonging to 'The Lord'" and was applied to buildings in which Christian assemblies met.
By the time the bible was translated to English, the word "church" and "assembly" where more or less the same.
I, however, probably would not use the word "church" as it blurs the intent of both the religious and non-religious assemblies.
I would also call this more of a political/common interest gathering rather than a "scientific" one, but maybe that's just me.
I think the use of the word church is/can be correct, but there is no deity to worship in this one. You don't have to worship Jehovah to be in a church. You don't even have to worship to be in a church. You could be in a mass of ppl gathered with like minds, and you're in a church. That is, IF we went by the old language definitions. Nowadays, a church is nearly always associated with religion and a deity and would be interpreted as such today.
What kind of post is this?
Do you just like the sound of your own voice?
Sorry, this is the net, "Do you like to see your face and comments on every page?"
The comment was clear enough. Not believing your tripe is not a religion. You run hubpages now do you?
"I don't believe in fairies. So that is a religion?"
So, just HOW is this relevant to the OP?
Did I mention fairies ANYWHERE?
All I'm saying is, if you are going to post, at LEAST keep to the topic.
If you want to talk about fairies, go start your own thread on them, (please).
I assur you, I will stay out of the thread 'cause I know nothing about them.
and you shpuld dstay out of Atheism as well, as you don't know nothing !
You don't need to mention the word fairy, but that is what you are talking of when you speak of this God. God is synonymous with fairies, Santa, unicorns, Rumpelstiltskin, etc.
So, yes, when talking about believing in nonsense, God and fairies are the same. They don't exist.
aka-dj, it's a perfectly serious post. You're saying that if a group of people don't believe in God, they form a religion called atheism.
What do you call a group of people who don't believe in fairies? Or a group of people who don't believe in unicorns?
Religious people can't grasp the concept that some people can live very happily without feeling the need to have faith in something. Atheism is the absence of religious faith and it doesn't have to be replaced by anything.
Any group of like-minded people will enjoy getting together to debate now and then - if it was a belly dancers' conference, would you say belly dancing was a church?
1. A house consecrated to the worship of God, among Christians; the Lords house. This seems to be the original meaning of the word. The Greek, to call out or call together, denotes an assembly or collection. But, Lord, a term applied by the early Christians to Jesus Christ; and the house in which they worshipped was named from the title. So church goods, bona ecclesiastica; the Lords day, dies dominica.
I would venture to say they are congregating, not necessarily a church because of the definition of church above.
What would you call an invisible impossible entity who is apparently only known to those with a full belly?
How can your fairy be omni everything, yet allow little children to die a horrible death before they even have time to learn about it? Even mere men try to feed the poor and underprivileged, should be a breeze for a god.
It is bizarre to hold these beliefs in a modern age where we actually know things.
Oh that's right .. free will! laughable.
Just make sure you don't read anything written in this century.
To consider a lack of belief as a religion is not logical in any way.
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