The Name Jesus

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Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago
The teaching that the New Testament was originally written in the Greek language is not only false but deceptive. The Hellenization of the Church not only produced a corrupted New Testament, but caused a Greek deity to displace the true Messiah. This was the work, or deeds, done by the Nicolaitanes in the early days. This is now perpetuated by the Christians in these latter days, since they are the offspring of the sect the Savior condemned (Revelation 1:6 and 15).
Many people think that we are just trying to establish another cult, but let us examine the facts. It is admitted that the Yahshua never heard Himself addressed as "Jesus Christ," not even when Greeks went to Philip and said, "We would see the Messiah" (Holy Name Bible). The Greek proselytes knew Him as "Yahshua," and as the Messiah: "Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other NAME under heaven, given unto men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12). The name "Jesus" was never applied to the Savior during His lifetime, nor for nearly 300 years after His death and resurrection, but was substituted for Yahshua the Messiah after the Greeks took over the Church and killed off the faithful followers of the Lamb of Yah. They displaced Yahshua the Messiah with their Greek deity, Zeus the Kristos and called him Ie-Zeus (Jesus).
The Nicolaitanes infiltrated the early assembly and finally took over the policy-making. They had overcome the resistance of the saints, who were contending for the faith. They had opened the way for Jezebel, the ancient symbol for seductiveness, to come in and seduce the servants of Yah by saying that the Ie-sus Kris-tos (Jesus Christ) was the Greek translation of Yahshua the Messiah. This ruse was so successful that it has now deceived all the nations of the earth. It is not to be wondered, therefore, that the Scriptures charge Babylon, the Mother of Harlots, with committing fornications (embracing the different religions and deities of the various nations) and mixing their doctrines, which is "the wine of her fornications." She has made all nations of the earth drink and has made drunk all the people.
--By A. B. Traina
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you are saying what I think that you are intending to say... I couldn't agree any more. Sounds a lot like what I've been saying; though you said it more eloquently.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It probably says what you think it does.
  
  Though this will upset certain groups..it's not why I posted it.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Everyone of my hubs are on this issue.
  The New Testament has been tainted.
  The Church that the Roman Empire built kept enough to the truth as was necessary to get everyone to agree to it; and yet subverted as much as it could get away with.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's not false
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If I am not a fan of yours yet, I am now. This is so well said. Truth is more important than feelings people. So, don't get your feelings hurt if the truth has challenged what you know. Read up on it and come to your own conclusion.
  
  Peace to all.
  Sooner.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your kindness and wisdom to actually extract something from this. I wish all could be like you. People who disagree should start their own threads stating their sides...but on these forums it is all about attack.
  
  Yahshua experienced attack and death because he came with a more enlightened message which others did not understand.
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  paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friends
  
  Jesus did not come with a different message than Moses or Jonah or Noah or Adam; the Message was in essence the same for their people, the world over; the Creator- God Allah YHWH is one, so believe in Him and worship Him; and don't worship "me"- the messenger prophet.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He did come with a different message and a different purpose. He was pure. Moses, Noah and Adam were not. Adam was the first to sin and every man and woman to follow has "fallen short of the glory of the Father". He was the pure sacrafice for mans sin. Yes it was prophesized that He would come. That does not mean he is a prophet. there is a difference. None shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven except through "Me".
  
  Sooner.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I understand this..He brought Moses law and fulfilled the law...However, it was presented with light upon it instead of mystery. Most could not understand what he was saying. To them it was a new message..even Blasphemy..they even accused YahShua of trying to take away from the law.
  
  Moses told them (due to their hard heart) to go ahead and divorce their spouse..Christ said only for fornication was divorce OK..this was a hard saying for them.
  
  He taught those who only abode by the strict code of the 10.Commandments..that they were to also love because love causes us to fulfill the law.
  
  He expounded the law and made it more clear..but others did not hear what he was saying. ..or didn't want to because what he said was harder for them. Now they learned that they had to love others..the hardest thing for humans to do.
  
  Christ wanted us to see God the Father and to worship the Father.
  
  You might want to read my hub on Christ..part I and part II
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  karobiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nice post but my problem with it is this, i don't understand what you want to achieve with the issue of name variation, whether Yahshua or Jesus christ, the most important thing is who this personality and His messages represent is what matter. Because there is one thing that I know as the name move from one nation to another there must be a slant variation of pronounciation and spellings and all that. so belove the core thing should be what should be of paramout important. Thanks
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
I think that a lot of people needs to be shaken up cause everyone NEEDS to understand what I think that you are saying and that would be a good reason for saying it,
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's why I posted it.
  
  "You shall know the TRUTH, and the truth shall set you free"
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  cheaptrickposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your Absolutely Right Deborah,it will set you free,
  But it always Hurts like Hell First!
  The latest stuff I've been reading is a Dictionary of sorts that defines the personified aeon's of the original Gnostic's whose works have been dated at around 40 CE.when I read the Gnostic Bible the stories become crystal clear as to what Christ revealed to them.I Highly recommend the Gospel of Thomas,made me Speechless!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Dean. You have a lot of knowledge and express yourself very well. You are also very correct.
  
  What better way to take away people's spiritual power then to teach them untruths.
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  dugger62posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Romans 1:25 bout covers it also.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think I agree
  Romans 1:25 KJV
  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen
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Faybe Bayposted 15 years ago
It's true, but predating that is Horus, who was "the son of God" too, so no matter how you slice it it comes down to "what's in a name?"

The Jehovah's witnesses say God won't even hear you if you call him any other name. Yeshua, is the name Joshua. The reason this name is left out is because there was a Joshua in the OT and none in the church wanted confusion. Hebrew's won't even write the word God, only G-d as they consider that taking his "name in vain".

At least no one knows where we live so we won't be crucified for stating the fact that regardless of name, he was not born on December 25th didn't rise on Easter, and had no bunnies with baskets, running around giving eggs to children!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My husband is Hebrew. When you see someone writing G-d..it's not a Hebrew..Hebrews write it IHVH..God is an English word.
  
  In Hebrew Christ's name is Yahshua..Non Hebrews write it Yehshua.
  Yah is God's name and Shua is Salvation..so Salvation in God's name.
  
  The name does make a difference..There is only one name which is above all others......Yah..Yahshua.
  
  Plus the name Ieous or Zeus is a completely different teaching..
  
  The name Yahshua is powerful and therefore has been perverted to keep the true power unknown to most.
  
  Joshua being the same as Yahshua is another false teaching.
  
  Yah is the name..Shua is the action or attribute.
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  WizardOfOzposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  By no short distance Deborah, you take the cake the most fanatical and self righteous poster I am yet to come across.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OK. and?
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  WizardOfOzposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  the . at the end of the sentence and the long period of time where I did not make any further comment should suggest to a clear thinking person that there is no and.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I guess I meant another person calling me names, means nothing to me.
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  WizardOfOzposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't calling you names for names sake, I was using the most fitting words available to say what I had to say. If you see me as just another person calling you names then maybe you should look at the common denominator.
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  Justine76posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't see any names, other then Jseus and stuff like that...
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I will be sure to tell the Rabbis of Chabad that they are not Hebrew, Deborah. They didn't get that memo. Particularly the late Rebbe Lubavitcher.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hebrew does not spell out the name either, if I am not mistaken.
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  dugger62posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Revelation 22:18-19, the last and most severe warning in all Scripture, states clearly about one so arrogant as to intentionally change YaHuWah's Word; that "his name will be taken out of the Tree of Life
  
  Romans 1:25
  
  יהוה study the tetragammaton
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  Dan Smithposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The idea of changing names to avoid confusion seems odd to me. It would be hard to imagine more confusion in the Bible surrounding names. Simon called Peter. Saul converted to Paul on the road to Damascus. How many John and James are there in the new testament? Personally it makes it hard to follow, and I'm reading the NIV.
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
But everybody already knows the truth just ask um.
I'm visiting out of state family so will be on and off of here more regularity for a day or two
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
Faybe Bay There may not be a bunny but I know thee is candy for the kids. I tell them it is just candy.
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Lady_Eposted 15 years ago
Interesting...
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JeanMeriamposted 15 years ago
Good post Deborah. I had read about this years ago and always found it interesting. My husband actually dared to ask a pastor about this subject. It did not go well.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Many people won't even refer to his Hebrew name...I'm not sure why not.
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  dugger62posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Acts 4: 17 , Acts 5:28
  
  May YaHuWah and His only begotten SON YaHuwShuwa bless you and yours-
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SOLA ADETUNJIposted 15 years ago
Deborah,I strongly disagree with ur post.That name may sound different in different languages.But the name "Jesus" invokes great power beyond comprehension.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OKie dokie.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You might want to read Numbers 22-36. The true prophet of God, Balaam told Balek how to defeat Israel and he spoke of the latter days (though God ordered Balaam not to curse them). Balaam told Balek to send his women to seduce the children of Jacob and Israel so they would split into different tribes and beliefs.
  
  I am giving you a link so you can read about this. Remember when it speaks of the name Jesus Christ..it is not speaking of the true son of God Yahshua Messiah...It is speaking of Ieous (Zsus,the supreme god, the son of Cronus)...
  http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:h0L … &gl=us
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Power given by thousands of years of social construction, perhaps?
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, the above, in response to: SOLA ADETUNJI
  
  Just pondering things over in this thread
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's because Zeus was a God..there are many gods.
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  dugger62posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  SOLA ADETUNJI,
  
  The name does not change ever change any language-
  
  as for the "word " jesus, it only invokes YaHuWah's anger
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sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago
Well thats all news to me I knew the name Yahshua but I wasn't quite sure where it came from. My brother-in-law taught himself Arameic so he could do his own translation. He felt there was some things that didn't make sense I'll have to ask him about this. Nice thought provoking post! Deborah where do you find this stuff? Does looking for this information interfere with making cookies because if you put this kinda effort into cookies they would surely be divine.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have:
  
  To Say To You...
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  great
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paarsurreyposted 15 years ago
Hi friend Deborah Sexton

I have counted 9 points in your informative post, OP. The first point is:

"The teaching that the New Testament was originally written in the Greek language is not only false but deceptive."

I agree with you. Jesus and Mary were Jew and their language was Hebrew and Aramaic and hence the Word of revelation recieved from the Creator - God Allah YHWH; must be in Hebrew and/or Aramaic.

Jesus was sent for the Jews and he was not sent to the Gentiles; in fact he forbade his disciples to spread his teachings in other nations ; but later Paul and the Church violated Jesus' clear instructions and under one pretex or the other "in the name of Jesus" they made it for the Gentiles and still later for the whole world very cleverly.

I agree with you that to say that the NTBible was originally written in the Greek language is not only false but deceptive.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks Deborah Sexton

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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paarsurreyposted 15 years ago
The fifth point of Deborah Sexton:

5. It is admitted that the Yahshua never heard Himself addressed as "Jesus Christ," not even when Greeks went to Philip and said, "We would see the Messiah" (Holy Name Bible).

Hi friends

She is right; I find following from the Wikipedia:

The proper name Jesus, sometimes referring to Jesus of Nazareth, the central figure of the New Testament, is attested in English from the 12th century (spelled Iesus or Ihesus), transliterating the Greek word Ίησους (Iēsous), from the original Hebrew Yeshua.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_(name)

There is however a slight difference; wikipedia mentions it "Yeshua" and not "Yahshua" as given by our friend Deborah Sexton.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Thanks
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nice info, paarsurrey.
  
  If I may ask... (paarsurrey, Deborah, anyone)
  
  In narratives where Jesus' acts and behaviors are told, when Jesus supposedly speaks, didn't he most often ask that people do as he was doing - not - "speak what I have taught you?"
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  paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend mythbuster
  
  Thank you for your appreciation.
  
  NTBible is not written by Jesus; it was not even dictated by him; further it was no written under permission and authority from him.
  
  Anomymous books were named as Matthew, Mark , John and Luke; and named as such to add some creduilty; under influence from clever Paul and his Church. It has nothing to do with Jesus; for his reason oriented teachings or his acts.
  
  If one find any contradiction and ambiguity; it is better to accept the one which is closest to the reason to start with.
  
  I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  spot on. absolutely.
  he did not evoke a name or title, but expressed the power in being a Doer of the Word/Work, not just a reader/heaer only, thus decieving the heart. Those are the things of procylites, teachers of the law and masters of slaves to sin/death.
  
  and emphatically instructed us to be/do the same.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There you are again.
  
  The teachings said to use the name. You can follow me from thread to thread saying I am wrong..but it is in fact you that is wrong...
  Stop teaching falsely.
  
  If the name YAH isn't important..is it OKAY to pray in the name of Lucifer?..your teachings say it is.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  it does? Boy are you misinformed.
  
  a. how do you know what 'my' teaching is, you do not.
  b. who is following who? it is a public forum.
  c. praying in ANY name is forbidden, as it is idolatry.
  
  We are sanctified by Truth and are to worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth. The Word IS Truth. The Way, Truth & Life. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us...the only begotten of the Father, full of Grace & Truth. No one goes to the Father, but through the Word. His name is the Word of Elohim. (rev 19.13)
  Whatever you ask in my name, that my Father will give to you.
  
  I cannot make it any plainer than that.
  Perhaps you attempting to pinpoint a particular USE of the many attributes of titles (names), as did the Hebrews of old to evoke His power. That is modern day "name it, claim it" new age mumbo-jumbo. I'll have no part in that, thank you.
  Again, you know this, so please save that for 'religionistas' and stop all this nonsense.
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  paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Deborah Sexton wrote:
  
  is it OKAY to pray in the name of Lucifer?..your teachings say it is.
  
  Paarsurrey says:
  
  Hi friend Deborah Sexton
  
  One should pray to the Creator- God Allah YHWH; as did Jesus and Mary. One should pray to none else other than Creator- God Allah YHWH.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you saying I don't?
  And aren't there teachers? If no one is taught how can they learn?
  
  The letter of the law and the spirit of the law are both needed.
  
  Unlike Twentyone days who thinks only the spirit of the law is needed.
  
  Yahshua said he did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it.
  Not only that but he made the law more clear.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Many think it is Yehshua..but Yehshua does not contain the true name of God..Yah..
  Yahshua is the true name.
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Paper Wolfposted 15 years ago
Okay. You may want to throw the young Churches battle against gnosticism in there as well. That in fact probably had more to do with the dogma of the Catholic Church than Hellenism. In fact, it is most likely the battle against gnosticism moved the Church to a more Hellenistic position than it would have achieved otherwise.

Protestantism was a move in the right direction, but has carried some of the dogma with it. To Deborah's point: anti-semitism has colored the Bible translations and left most Christians without the benefit of the Hebraic roots of their faith.

Paarsurrey: Thank you for an Islamic perspective of the New Testament. I do not agree with your intent, but I appreciate your input.

Mythbuster: Your point is well taken.
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  cheaptrickposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am Gnostic and Yes the Gnostic's were Heavily Influenced by the mid Platonions.The incorporation of Logic and the personification of emanations[Aeon's]confused the Orthodox leaders.They brought the heavy weight Heresy hunters in to the persecution because most Gnostic's were Within the Orthodox church.The Scrolls discovered at Nag Hammadi in1945 are absolutely the Reverse of what the Orthodox heresy hunters quoted in there writings.
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kessposted 15 years ago
Twenty One, It is pleasant to see your very thoughts come out from the mind of another.

Nevertheless I feel constrained to write still.

To focus and dispute over the name of the individual is to make the same mistakes that are prevalent in all false religion including christianity.

What are the names that men give to the Christ?
Jesus, Yahshua, son of david, Joseph, son of belial etc. Etc.
Some good some bad but attributed to the son of man.

Now consider the name that The man applied to Himself.
Christ/messiah, the way, the truth, the light, the life, word of God, God. All attributes of the Son of God.

These are all spiritual attributes of Himself for He mostly referred to himself not merely as a man but as an invisible Spirit.

Those who see him only in the flesh, as the son of man, will focus on the things that He has said and done and thrives on perpetuating that knowledge, not seeing that is not the ultimate intention of The Christ, though it is allowed for a time for a purpose.

Now those who are true believers are those who possesses the mind of The Christ, and would focus on the Things that the Christ is saying and doing in the present, within themselves.

They have no problem applying all the Spiritual attributes of the Christ to themselves for they know these things to be true within themself of themselves.

So we see through the Christ works in His Disciples by given them the knowledge of God, life, and themselves that did not come through fleshly channels, but via The Spirit within only.

So finally if one focuses on that other men have written and have said and done whether they be good of evil, that one have not yet begun to know the Christ.

For the Christ is the always present within him to know, to speak, to do.
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tantrumposted 15 years ago
Do you sell Jesus as well ?
You've been reported for spam
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Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago
In Exodus chapter 3 Moshe (Moses) met The Creator on the mountain. Moses did not know His name. So when given the task he asked " WHAT IS YOUR NAME" Exd. 3:13-15 - "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come to the children of Israel, and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you; They shall ask me, what is his name? What shall I tell them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, that's what you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent you. And God said moreover to Moses, that is what you shall say to the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you: THIS IS MY NAME FOREVER, AND THIS IS MY MEMORIAL UNTO ALL GENERATIONS."

Now a closer look at this in the original Hebrew reveals an amazing MIS-TRANSLITERATION because the rule was not followed. The scripture was TRANSLATED instead of TRANSLITERATED AND TRANSLATED. The name of GOD is Strongs number 3050 which is transliterated YAH. The Strongs number used by most scripture for YAH's (God's) name is 3068 and 3069 YAH VEH or YAH VAH. In English the mis-transliteration commonly known is Jehovah or YAHWEH. There is actually no "W" or "J" in the Hebrew language. The "W" is a "V"and the "J" is a "Y".

The root word for the second part of the word YAH VEH is Strongs number 1961. The "VE" or "VA" part in Hebrew means 'unseen'and 'to be honored'. The "H" designation adds the meaning 'eternal existent one'. 1961 'VEH' has it's roots in 2088 'VH' and 2063, which means "THIS" or and "ONE". From this we can see that mistake was that YAH VEH was translated from the 'VEH' and not given it's original TRANSLITERATION of the NAME of God "YAH". This mistake was most likely because of Jewish superstition to not speak the name of God or that the translater did not understand that YAH was a name. The most ancient of words, still used in praise today is Hallelujah. We do not say HALLELUYAHWEH or HALLELUYAHVEH, we say HALLELU YAH which means 'praise unto Yah'. We find proof that this is God's name in Psalms 68:4 "... Extol (praise) Him by His NAME YAH". So when Moses met The Creator he asked "WHAT IS YOUR NAME" and God told him "I AM YAH, TO BE HONORED, THE ETERNAL EXISTENT ONE"..." THIS IS MY NAME FOREVER, AND THIS IS MY MEMORIAL UNTO ALL GENERATIONS". In case you haven't checked lately this is still forever unto all generations. So God's name is YAH, Strongs number 3050. The other things are added TITLES to lend reverence, praise, and honor to The Creator's name.

We can further prove this by the corrected translation and transliteration of Matthew chapter 27 verse 46 and 47: "And About the ninth hour Yah Shua (Jesus) cried with a loud voice, ELI YAH, ELI YAH LAMA SA-BACH-THA-NI? That is to say My God, My God, why have you forsaken me? Some of them that stood there, when they heard this said, This man calls for Elias". Elias is Strongs number 452 which is the same as EliJah or ELIYAH. Those that were unlearned in Hebrew who stood by thought Yah Shua (Jesus) was calling on the prophet Eiljah. In the King James version the YAH in ELI YAH is missing. ELI which is preserved in this translation in Hebrew means MY. 'YAH' I have added back in because it is evident that it was there originally. Yah Shua (YAH's salvation), was saying "MY YAH, MY YAH". Had that not been what he was saying then those who stood by could not have misunderstood and think that he was calling for the prophet Eliyah. The scripture makes the interpretation clear in the translation 'That is to say My God, My God'. I believe that it was placed by Matthew there so that when men made this mistake that the Holy Spirit could reveal the truth to mankind. In the day the prophet Hosea spoke of. The day that YAH would remove the names of Baal out of our mouths.

Read the works of Daniel Merrick
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Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago
To say we do not need to know God's name is incorrect.
We should be sanctified in the truth and Prasie HIM by HIS name, Yah (John ch.17).

Yah Shua when he spoke the name of His Father Yah. John Ch. 17:6 reveals the very nature of salvation in Messiah's prayer: "I have manifested Thy name...". Again in John Ch. 17:11 " ... Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are".

John 17
11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

26. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
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Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago
LOL

I have to hand it to you guys. Not one agreement other than the occasional meaningless platitude from the Mormon or the Gnostic Kristian (oxy-moron lol) who knows everything. But I was reminded why I decided the whole kit and kabooble is nonsense.

Basically - none of you know anything and cannot even agree what it is you are talking about - but - you are prepared to fight about it.

Ahhhh......... religion.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Actually I do know what I am talking about.
  
  It is you who is blind.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  Regurgitating the same nonsense I was regurgitating 35 years ago is not knowing what you are talking about.
  
  And the ferry to Italy is not the ferry to France.
  
  Look forward to meeting your husband soon. And how many degrees is it now?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You've never even seen views like mine much less regurgitating it.
  
  I have no interest in you or your thoughts.
  
  By the way..I saw MarkKnowles website and on Facebook. I see why you hate so much
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Aww - and there you are again. Regurgitating. LOLOL
  
  Must admit - you have mixed up several different, conflicting, contradictory approaches. But ain't nuthin new. Ancient Greek anyone? LOL
  
  Hate?
  
  A mirror perchance?
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Becareful Mark, stupid is as stupid does. You know how that goes.
  
  This one cannot argue a debate without aggression, lies, slander, or false accusations.
  
  If you notice, your thread was the only real one to actively oppose the posters taught process. So instead of being a good sport, and intelligently debate their findings to you- they chose to slam your name and business instead.
  
  Whats the definition of a hate-mongering, troll?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now, are you calling me a stupid hate-mongering, troll?
  
  Don't call me any more names directly or indirectly...
  
  YOU are the words YOU speak.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did I mention any names?
  
  Don't get involved in my 3rd hand conversations.
  
  You lay out a lot of rules for other hubbers in this forum, why don't you try following them. For example, Mark isn't to speak of you in third person. Well ditto back to you. You are not allowed to converse with me at all. Better yet, you are not allow to converse period.
  
  It is time for someone else to spout some insanely stupid laws back to you. Give you a dose of your own...!
  
  Practice what you preach. You quote scripture like you are God himself. But your hate-mongering with those who oppose your views, is the definition of trolling. The shoe fits in this case. Deal with it.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've never stooped to your level. However I will if you wish. I promise you won't like it.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you have any real friends? You sure seem to smell the sky a lot. Just my worthless view of things.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well - looks like we agree for once. Seriously - this one is particularly unpleasant. Her husband is going to come and chastise me when they do their grand tour of Europe though - so I will be getting some exercise this year.......
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You don't live in France..You live in America.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't talk about me to someone else in the third person.
  You don't live in France. I don't believe you. I am good at knowing people...
  
  Once you said that I'm not married..
  Your making a big deal out of being married and visiting Europe
  shows you think this is a big deal yourself..so you must not be married nor live in Europe.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't lose any sleep.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  True, it is worthless.
  I have many friends, but in real life..not on the internet.
  
  Did I ask you for anything?
  
  Seems everyone can dish it out but can't take it..who do you guys think you are?
  Everyone here is rude so I mirror it back. It's what you see in that mirror that you don't like...It's called the shadow self.
  
  I tried to offer truth so now I dust my feet...
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Funny and witty! I suppose fresh grad docs part like the red sea when you walk through the hallway.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Another one attacking me and feels He/She has the right. Not seeing your own self righteousness...nor your lack of knowledge...
  
  Yes and the trees and flowers bow....Do they for you?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I asked you a friendly question in a totally neutral manner and I get "This what I have to say to you.........................."
  
  Look if I didn't like you or Thought you were stupid I wouldn't bother with you. I was curious about your source because some of the things you say, they seem odd to me, but not offensive. I was just having fun trying to keep it lite. The cookie comment was some friendly teasing, nothing more. If you can't bake cookies who cares? It was a weak attempt at a joke, sorry.
  
  You need to back off a little and not be so sensitive. I have no problem with you except your attitude and I just don't get it.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Spot on Mark! Spot on!!!!!
  
  It is hilarious reading through some of these post.
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  *gives big man hug, kiss on both cheeks* ... Mark, I've been to some baptist business meetings that would give you more fodder than you've EVER seen on hub pages, but I gotta tell you, the way you fight about religion ... you'd fit right in.
  
  Of course, you wouldn't be allowed to speak to the people you fight with in the liquor store. Because since baptist don't drink we don't speak to each other in the liquor store ... but with your vehemence and sarcasm, I don't think anybody would notice that you were actually arguing AGAINST the bible.
  
  ('cuz it's not like we listen to each other any way! Hell man, we fight when we agree!)
  
  So, really, I think you'd fit right in.
  
  Peace man!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Finally - some one gets me.
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  NIMBYposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mark Knowles, you seem knowledgeable about the bible even if you have decided to talk down about christianity. I am guessing you dislike the christian religion largely because you've read a lot of the bible. Is there anything you think that is of value in the bible? I've seen your sarcasm here and, on one hand, enjoy it very much - on the other hand, I can see the harshness of the points you make through sarcasm (ouch) but all in all, is the bible worth anything more than, say, a good, heavy doorstop to you...?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Se my other response
  
  There are things to learn - but - not what you want them to be.
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  Dan Smithposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, I've read some of your other postings. You tend to blame religion for people killing each other. Honestly, even without religion people will still find a reason to kill each other.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So removing one reason will not help huh? Great defence of religion though. LOLOL
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What is immeasurable is the number of people not killed because of religion. I could make a whole long list of people who aren't dead because I believed that even though they needed killin' (a valid defense in all 50 states I might add) it would displease God.
  
  There are people walking around alive today because I didn't kill them because of my religion.
  
  Of course, if you DO manage to convince me there's no God ... MWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How true !!!!
  Bet ya there are a few more lists that can be added to yours.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Damn - hadn't though of that.
  
  But - I need a comprehensive list to consider this as evidence. Names, addresses, and means of death not carried out. Plus - of course - proof that these people themselves did not and will not go on to commit some heinous crime in the future and we would have been better served removing them from the gene pool.......
  
  The invisible super being should be able to email me a list. I will check the spam folders extra carefully.
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
I do not know what the whole truth is. No one does.
I do know or at least I believe that I know; that there cane be but one "WHOLE TRUTH". If everyone in the world gets to have their own interpretation of what that whole truth is ????
everyone gets to be at least a little bit wrong.
And being puffed up in our own pride, seeing only those things that are incorect in our own eyes... everbody is goina argue. .. For ever and for ever.......
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
neither part of the law is needed -it is only for those who need repentance.
For if we still cling to the law than He has died in vain!!

The spirit of Life is the Teacher, sent to those who ask and then are anointed of Him.

We do know the Truth, since it is in our hearts to fully know those things freely given to us by Him. It is the Spirit who testifies in us that He is Lord of All. And the Spirit is Truth.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You don't even know what being under grace means.
  And if the life is in the teacher as you say, Then why disregard his words and teachings?
  
  Contradictions in every sentence..
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  show me the contradiction, then.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  21- ignore that poster. You are not the one with far reaching contradictions.
  
  They must have been looking in the mirror, when they were writing that post to you.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  will do!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No..when I look in the mirror..I only see my beautiful face and slim curvey body...
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  paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Deborah Sexton
  
  Please don't mind. You are such an intelligent person.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have to consider the sources.....
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  paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friends
  
  Paul did away with Law; to derail true teachings of Moses and Jesus.
  
  Paul was a clever enemy of Jesus and his teachings.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you are twisted.
  Saul could not abolish what was not his to abolish.
  So both Saul & Moses served the same Master -The Word of Elohim,
  one by law the other by Grace.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He abolished the way of the Jews. He rewrote God's law, and added some of his own.
  
  I would not say Paul was an enemy of Christ's. I'd say that Paul was more power hungry, more than anything. He had a lustful heart to make his religious interpretations doctrine, and to hell with the rest of it.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Some interp's maybe, but he did not abolish Judaism.
  His version of it maybe -since he was an avid student- even killing believers because of that zeal.
  but after his many encounters outside the safety net of both Rome and Jerusalem, I think he came to the place where he could only go one way. So he turned to Peter and maybe tried to reach out to John -who was exiled. His last attempt was in Rome itself -which he was warned a few times not to try, but did. Gotta hand it to him for gonads.
  His writing strikes me always as urgent, as if he was constantly under his own scrutiny and looking over his shoulder.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He abolish the Jewish ways of those following Christ. He did.
  
  I never meant he abolished Judaism completely. I thought that would have been a given. I was talking about the direct correlation of Paul's workings to that of Jesus.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Totally Ridiculous
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You have no idea what you are talking about.
  The law, God's word..is God.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Matthew 4:4
  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
  
  John 8:47
  He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
  
  By trying to do away with the law (God's word) you are trying to do away with God..good luck with that.
  1. John 1:1
  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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Pandoras Boxposted 15 years ago
Funny how the people most assured of their own enlightenment are such puffed-up balls of pride.

This is wisdom, morality and understanding? No thank you.
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  NIMBYposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Pandoras Box....
  
  A question for you (I know it's aside from the ORIGINAL theme at the top of the thread but then, so are most other comments going on at this point lol)...
  
  Asking because you mentioned wisdom, morality and understanding...
  
  Do you think that, despite the fact that people cannot seem to get along in conversations about meanings in the bible, do you think there are still words of wisdom and morality in scriptures that we are capable of understanding. ??
  
  I am asking because I have read a lot of bible material and think that even if it can be proven that Jesus did not exist or that the words are not all of purely divine nature, a lot of good writers and well meaning people attempted to put reasonable principles for living in the scriptures.
  
  Just wondering if we are putting personalities from the bible foremost and scrapping about who said what...before getting down to understanding the lessons in the bible.
  
  just trying not to be a puffed up person here. It's really frustrating to try and gain any 'insight' from certain threads when they [threads/conversations] just turn into p-ssing contests, so to speak...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know this was not addressed to me but I think I have a reasonable answer.
  
  It seems to me that after 2000 years of pissing contests - a belief in god/jesus invariably ends in conflict/wars over interpretation.
  
  Maybe the lessons in the bible are not what you think they are. The lesson I have learned is that believing in something that requires faith alone and does not actually exist - is a dangerous mistake. It is very hard to back down from this irrational belief - and because it is an indefensible position - one's only recourse is aggression and attack.
  
  See - history.
  
  No - no morality we can learn. It is based solely on the carrot and the stick. But - the carrot and the stick are invisible and when it comes down to it - no one actually fears the stick or believes the carrot.
  
  See- history.
  
  How about we learn the lesson we can and start developing our own morality based on it "being the right thing to do" instead of the invisible super being's wrath after death?
  
  What do you think? Think we can learn from 2000 years of conflict - or are we destined to fight over this until the end times?
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't matter, there isn't anything in the bible in regards to wisdom or morality that we can't figure out for ourselves. All the bible does is provide controversy and absolutism where none are required.
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  cheaptrickposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not technically proficient enough to pull up individual comments but I do recall reading one where our supreme atheist said"I am a Witch without the rituals"so he dose have a religion.
  Another poster stated"No enlightened person would waste there time in the forums"Hypocrisy and wisdom....The venom in this thread is exceptional.
  Bottom line for some people is a desire to improve themselves.How they go about that is there business.I don't see a justification for the viciousness Ive read here.
  Let the attacks begin...or even better,just ignore this post.
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ditto the excellent response of Mark Knowles'.
  
  Sure there's widsom in the bible, lots of it, mixed in with all the hate-mongering, genocidal hissy-fits, jealous rages, and general lack of understanding, tolerance, self-responsibility and forgiveness exhibited by "the Lord", not to mention a usually abysmal dearth of any sense of real joy or wonder with our exceptional lives as they simply are.
  
  There's wisdom in most books, but we don't pretend they're from a god and fashion our worldly outlooks on transforming ourselves into little flawed models of a flawed prototype from 2000 to 4000 years ago.
  
  People have always sought out knowledge and wisdom -to the best of their ability. Or not. My question is why are we stopping at the wisdom level of men who died millenia ago.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your words and attitude speak volumes of your intolerance as you call other people names.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah..so people who are enlightened are suppose to allow people like you to run over them?
  Not going to happen.
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tantrumposted 15 years ago
And all in the name of Jesus !
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yahshua!
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  Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Bless you, need a kleenex?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are so funny.
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  dugger62posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Deborah you are correct- don't let them get to you
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. At least one person here (you) sees/knows the truth.
  One person here who claims to be a Kabbalist is now joining in showing me hate and says I am showing rage. Thinking they are above all.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, actually not. Instead In the name YahShua.
  
  Just trying to share some knowledge.
  
  However it appears here on Hubpages, everyone knows everything already. Everyone or most feel it's OK to call me and others names, belittle, be condescending etc..yet I'm suppose to sit and smile?
  
  If I don't I am again called names, belittled (well they try) and I'm spoken to in a condescending manner.
  
  Should I bow down?
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Richieb799posted 15 years ago
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this post, it is very interesting.. I just remembered something I think I read in Revelations once, doesn't it say something about 'people who channge any part of this book will have the plagues unto them doubled'
Lol I'm not good on scripture, Itend to remember small parts lol
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
"Do you think that, despite the fact that people cannot seem to get along in conversations about meanings in the bible, do you think there are still words of wisdom and morality in scriptures that we are capable of understanding".
==============================

Jerami thinks.. I believe that there is wisdom is scriptures.
BUT the only way that it can truly be seen is when we keep our incredable abilities of intelectual INTERPRETATION out of it.
Do not read more into it than it actually says.
This is dificult because of many hundreds of years that interpretations have been taught instead of the written word.

Richieb799 That was the closing statement for the book of Rev.
I would think that when we "Interpretate" the prophesy of scripture we are doing just that. Changing the meaning.
We can read it and follow the guidelines that Gabriel has given us when he delivered the interpretations to Daniel's visions.
These interpretations can be used when reading Rev.
For instance the leopard being interpretated as representing Greece in Daniels vision can be understood likewise in the book of Rev.
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Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago
WizardOfOz wrote:

By no short distance Deborah, you take the cake the most fanatical and self righteous poster I am yet to come across.
_______________________

This isn't calling me names?
You're so innocent.
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  WizardOfOzposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you were a shopkeeper and I called you a shopkeeper, should that be an offense?
  
  You are a fanatic, I am sure you are aware that your fervent beliefs are not garden variety. So far as self righteous, well, history speaks for itself Deb. I don't think a day goes by if you are on these forums that you do not blow your top at at least a few people. You claim to have the truth and your weapon of choice is the bible which you again, claim to have the Only interpretation that is the truth.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm Deborah not Deb.
  I never blow my top as you say. I speak bluntly to those who come in and feel they have a right to say nasty things to me.
  
  I started the thread to share..others came in to fight.
  I mirror people back to themselves. When I stand my ground, folks don't like it. When they say jump, they want me to ask How High?
  When I don't ask how high and I tell them to go ahead and jump themselves, I am labeled.
  
  Since I am not a fanatic it is calling me a name.
  I don't use MY Bible..I use their Bible to show those who believe in the Bible how it contradicts what they believe. You think you know me and you probably even think I am a Christian, which would be wrong.
  
  Let's take a look at you now. I am no more a fanatic or self righteous than you. You can't see it because people like to think they have a right. Since your first post/reply to me, you have stated your opinions and have pointed out MY FLAWS over and over..how are you so different? Amazing how people don't even know themselves. You're not a fanatic or self righteous in your desire to tell me what a bad person you think I am? or how wrong you think I am?
  
  Try to remember, I started this thread to share some knowledge. Not to be self righteous, but to give. That was my intention.
  
  However, I, like Israel will fight back when attacked.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is it me, or does anyone else see a bad habit forming?
  
  This chick is so over the top and way out of line, with almost everyone she comes in contact with at hubpages. What a mess of crap this is. She drives people to madness, then wonders why everyone "picks" on her.
  
  "However, I, like Israel will fight back when attacked." I like Israel will fight back? So now she is a country?
  
  Crazy I tell ya, c r a z y! Its embarrassing to think that she has a license to type.
  
  Suck it up lady, you bring this crap on yourself.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Though it is very obvious, don't blame me for your insanity.
  Anytime you speak, I think, What's she/he rambling about again.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  go IE its you're birthday! woop woop!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, supporting this shows how enlightened you are.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you have no idea what I was referring to, so please do not make assumptions. And if you need to, at least make them accurate and projected from the proper source of information.
  
  For your information, "Deborah", all your 'petty remarks' aka 'mirroring' shows exactly the same useless indulgence-deluge as the others you so adamantly defend yourself against.
  
  if you are truly above it, then why constantly feel necessitated to defend positions/expressions/opinions -in any form or fashion?
  
  Yes, there is some grit between myself and your projections, but at least I maintain a respectful discord -even if livid by certain statements. Should you think my replies are personal to you, you are mistaken. As for enlightenment, it is more useless chatter of the mind...
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Like calling me sorceress and a demon..lots of respect.
  And I'm not to defend myself..but you're here defending yourself.'
  This is exactly what I am saying.
  And who said "I'm above it"? I have a long way to go. However I am trying.
  
  Not once have I gone to a thread and started calling people names the way you and others have. I have also not gone to a thread and started talking to one person while putting someone else down as Cecil has.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well Deborah, you know. You don't need to explain why you are "better" or "nicer". Just don't get personal too much, because it diverts an interesting topic to your feelings and people hate high maintenance types.
  
  You know, we're all just exploring what we know here. And a student of the Kabbalah is not a literal student. It means you are learning the many aspects of Kabbalah. One will always be a student of the Kabbalah. Those who are Kabbalists were also students of the Kabbalah but had learned so much that in their Death, they became respected as an authority. They are not the ones who called themselves Kabbalists, it is those who wrote about them.
  
  My hubs and my knowledge is an offering. It is a way to give back the many things I learned from my mentors.
  
  I am not your enemy. I just think you need to dial down with the "self" reference as a response to a discourse and maybe they will focus on your discourse instead of your reactions.
  
  Again its an offering. It's up to you to accept my goodwill. I have nothing but goodwill for you Deborah. I just find you a little reactive and that's ridiculous for me. But I really hope you just learn to banter without taking things too personally. You can put a person in his place without necessarily putting him down, you know. Some people I've exchanged mean banter with are in fans list.
  
  Take it easy and just relax. It's a forum for insomniacs and chattaholics.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Stop continuing to tell me what you see about me. I am not interested in your opinion. You continue with your constant off topic items and agenda. Who do you think you are? Yet I am the self righteous person in your eyes?
  You don't need to teach me the Kabbalah..teach yourself. I know what being a student means. and what you meant.
  
  You have hijacked this thread..with your opinions of ME..speaking to others about me as though I am not here.
  Nothing from me is reactive. I am just putting you and the others in their places. Big difference.
  
  Instead of trying to improve me..improve yourself. You think you know all the answers and reply to everything everyone says...You have to prove to the world you feel you are smart...trying to convince people of this. Yet some of your remarks..show just the opposite.
  
  If you come back with a reply stating what you don't like about me.or what you think my problems are .I will report you to Hubpages for hijacking, continuing with your remarks though I have asked you not to and for personal attacks.. you are allowed to reply to items of interest..anything else is attack.. you may want to read the rules.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i'm sorry, it was an attempt to include you in the discussion. That's all really. If you could see my face. None of the hostility you project is mine. seriously. I am a very placid person with a lot of stomach for male banter.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I understand "sorceress". James is speaking from a historical notion of "sorceress". I have an idea of the extent of this guy's knowledge. You really are delving in forbidden use of the Tree of Life. But let that not offend you but inform you. It is only forbidden because it has tendency to distract from the meaning of the Tree of life.
  
  Being offended by such things Deborah only means you don't know your own beauty.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, you now make me a bit nervous Cecilia. in my head!
  True, my use of the term sorcerer refers to the practice of ritual whereby a learned scribe evokes spiritual practices/potions/spells(prayers) etc, to seemingly bring about solidification of an event which then becomes an acceptable action and belief process (ex. the priests of baal, divination, tarot, astrology -where the use of locations of planets and reflects of light to/from those units of energy- are used to determine the course of ones life; a false entrance to purity).
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't be silly. It was obviously what you meant, because in truth I was thinking that, but held back knowing she is a bit reactive.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're a Kabbalist and you don't know that the Tarot is related to the Tree of Life? That the planets are also? That the Wise men in the Bible were called "Wise" because they were Astrologers?
  
  Now, I can only assume that your knowledge of the Kabbalah is surface with no deep understanding.. just words you've read and quote. Like writing Spanish by using a translator and not knowing what each word is.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I do know it intimately but I used the Tarot to gaze at my own mind not to tell the future. They are meditations.
  
  It's occult use imposes the reader's consciousness on another. The Tree is not meant to be used this way. It's meant to reveal that you and I are aspects of the Divine.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What forbidden use of the Tree?
  Because he states I am a sorceress you come up with this?
  
  How dare you to continue. I study every branch of the Kabbalah not just one. You do know there are different systems? As long as your aim is to see God there is nothing forbidden..
  
  It was forbidden to those who would use it incorrectly and hurt themselves by doing so. It is not deemed forbidden for any other reason. Now your are teaching duality..instead of unity..Good and bad instead of just being...Now, I know you are not a practicing Kabbalist..just a pretender.
  
  There are no forbidden uses unless it is done to hurt someone...and that is just so it doesn't come back to you. However a true adept..can deflect even that.
  Now if you are accusing me of this..state it..so I can get this reported.
  
  The Hebrew word that was translated as sorceress was poisoner..people use to buy poisons from them to kill their enemies..when it was translated from Aramaic/Hebrew it was translated wrong. There is nothing wrong with using magick to effect your life.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  They are trying to get you in a fight ! LOL
  It's happening all the time with you. Don't answer !! LOL
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Deborah Sexton,
  
  Here, you state that you study all branches.
  
  I've been reading at your hubs, trying to learn more...but would like to know if there are separate "Traditions" for studying Kabbalist material.
  
  A different way to ask, I guess, is: are there different schools of thought on the matter, different approaches of study? And if so, which school/tradition/approach do you identify with?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, several 4 of them..but in the unwritten Kabbalah there are many secrets not revealed to people who have not learned the other branches.
  I found the best way is to learn (not just study) them all and decide which one resonates with you. Most agree the Unwritten Kabbalah, which deals with the sacred Tree of Life is their choice.
  I teach Kabbalah mostly with the unwritten Kabbalah..But I also teach and use all of them...
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  By your definition/explanation, what is "learn" vs "study"?
  
  You mean - it's a 'Practice,' right? Like an active thing? If so, how does one begin? Just to start reading the doctrinal and philosophical material?
  
  The Unwritten Kabbalah - isn't that imparted to a worthy student through a sort of mentorship, something like that?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There are many Kabbalah uses and practices from differing schools of thought:
  
  Kabbalah Magick would be from
  1. Crowley
  2. Anatomy of the Body of God author Frater Achad
  
  mystical texts of a spiritual nature
  Medieval
  - Shimon Bar Yochai (the Zohar)
  - The Sefer Yetzirah, (The book of creation in theory and practice by Kaplan)
  - The Bahir
  
  Modern Kabbalah
  -Isaac Luria
  
  New Age
  Madame Blavatsky
  
  I personally study medieval Kabbalah and Torah, which is also Kabbalah but the Oral one.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There are a lot of ways to study the Kabbalah. But you're not going to really learn that on a hub. Kabbalah hubs can only lead you to Kabbalah.
  
  You're asking something of no importance.
  If you were a Kabbalist, you would know this.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not a Kabbalist, therefore I'm asking about this. Thx for your input.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you're interested in Kabbalah, start with the Zohar.Real Kabbalah is something you'll have to find for yourself. All the clues are in the Books. You'll have to find them, and put them on practice on your life. A teacher can help, but that's not all.
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  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did Jesus ever fight back?
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know you asked Deborah this, and she doesn't believe Jesus is God, right? But it got my attention. Hugely interesting question. I had a hub started about it, but didn't find the right way to finish it....
  
  I say yes He did, with words. Not with sword, except the sword of His mouth.
  And He evaded the Roman soldiers at one point, until His time came to lay His life down.
  But then, His goal was to die for mankind.
  
  I believe our goal as Christians is two-fold---to die TO our sins with Him.....and to live for Him. Balance. Since we're not God, but Jesus is, and God in the Old Testament was/is a God of war..... and God doesn't change. Is that a possibility? I'd welcome anyone's insight into that...
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, many times. He got angry, he lost his patience etc. The scriptures tells us to anger and not sin. This means to show anger but be in control of it. Calling people names shows a lack of control.
  
  John 2:
  14. And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
  15.And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
  
  Matthew 15:
  7. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying
  
  Matthew 17:17 reads, “Faithless and perverse generation! How much longer must I be with you? How much longer must I put up with you?”
  
  He rebuked Peter, calling him Satan. Matthew 16:23. He rebuked James and John for wanting to call down fire from heaven to burn up the Samaritan village. Luke 9:55. And He rebuked the eleven male disciples for not believing the women’s testimony.Mark 16:14.
  
  John 2:3-5, “And they ran out of wine, since the wine provided for the feast had all been used, and the mother of Jesus said to him, ‘They have no wine.’ Jesus said, ‘Woman, what do you want from me? My hour has not come yet.’ His mother said to the servants, ‘Do whatever he tells you…
  
  YahShua made it very clear we were not to judge others, not even to call someone a fool because names are destructive, demeaning, and abusive. Matthew 5:22. A little further on in the scriptures, Jesus explains why. Mt. 7:3 reads, “Hypocrite! Take the log out of your own eye first, and then you will see clearly enough to take the splinter out of your brother’s eye.”
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  In Matthew 16:23 calling Peter an "adversary," not saying Peter is "Satan." In Jesus' time, "adversary" was a known concept... not sure that "the persona of Satan" was the 'known' concept of "the being/entity of Satan."
  
  ie: Matthew 16:23: "Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
  
  try: "...get behind me, adversary - you are a stumbling block to me [...]"
  
  In context, it doesn't make sense for Jesus to call Peter by the term "Satan" as we know the term in our modern world...
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  paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friends
  
  The scribes are confused here; they mention Peter as Satan. They mention at other place:
  
  Matthew 16:18
  And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
  
  The scribes are not trustworthy; Bible should be read with a lot of caution.
  
  If Jesus was to build a Church on Peter; then he should have not referred to him as Satan. This seem to be a mischief of the scribe writing it.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know that Satan and adversary are the same. I have stated this many times. I speak Hebrew. However because many Christians here use the KJV..I wrote what was written in that version.
  When I have said before that Satan means adversary, I have gotten the same reaction..that I don't know what I am talking about because they feel Satan is Lucifer.
  
  What difference does it make? Peter was still rebuked.
  
  The question posed to ME was, did Yahshua ever fight back and the answer is YES.
  
  The only time the Messiah did not fight back was when it fulfilled the prophecy written about him. He did not try to stop what God wanted him to do.
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  paarsurreyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friends
  
  It is wrongly understood that Satan/Devil was once Lucifer- an angle; it is wrong.
  
  Satan is one who disobeys; so Satan never obeyed God Allah YHWH.
  An angel is who always obeys God Allah YHWH; so Lucifer was never an angle.
  
  For angel/s I quote from Quran:
  
  [16:50] And whatever is in the heavens and whatever creature is in the earth submits humbly to Allah, and the angels too, and they do not behave proudly.
  [16:51] They fear their Lord above them, and do what they are commanded.
  
  http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=49
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are disobeying many other gods, you must be Satan.
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Dont insult the Satan. He is much smarter than this weirdo
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ms. Sexton, you've referenced my post concerning the word "Satan" in another post...I wasn't aware that you would feel this post (about word meaning, in context) is meant to prove or disprove anything you're saying. In fact, it supports the (your) post it follows where you mention Jesus' anger. It's plain that Jesus rebuked Peter, feeling that Peter's mistake/misunderstanding was adversarial in nature to the beliefs of Jesus.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  really we cannot control what people do, but how we react.
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
ps, not to throw more wood on a dysfunctional familiar spirit fire, but the name -if any- is "Yod" not "Yah" or "YHWH", etc.

These are names scribed by MAN to understand the nature of Him who is All in all. I think that sums it up.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  *nodding head*
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  why are we talking about deborah's rage in relation to Jesus again?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not. Merely pointing out the "ob" ( hahahaha, gotta love Hebrew ). and superseding titles of fear, law and humility, into the full monte of Grace.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i know and my mindset was american idol and tim urban doing a surprisingly good performance tonight. how ironic that we are talking about Jesus and then it became about Israel fighting back the name-calling and ---wha?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  talk about perspective.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  From your statements I know you feel YOU are above God's law.
  However you might want to read this anyway.
  
  Matt. 5:22. But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My rage? Because I try to show truth?
  Who are you to judge me. How are you different?
  Are your insults Godly?
  How about the attacks on me because I wanted to share?
  
  How do you uplift their hands against me and think you know truth?
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't this a rather oppressive and non-critical way to discuss things?
  
  I'm addressing you, Deborah Sexton, but please don't take offense. I'm just posting in response to YOU because this is the thread you started in the forum...and I'm seeing a very "reactive" Deborah Sexton at this point in the thread.
  
  Regardless of right or wrong bases of knowledge, the way in which information is conveyed is always important, in my opinion. You'll gain no supporters or even 'listeners' while using oppressive methods and terms and while you're separating people of your own accord into "us" and "them" and "I" vs. "all you mistaken people" - I know you haven't used that exact phrase but this is what you've effectively conveyed...
  
  In the "tone" of your posts, you're not 'informing,' but providing "elite" and 'uncommon' knowledge on very controversial topics...it might be considered 'high-brow' show tactics, according to some people - but if you were to provide a different tone, along with some links/references where people can read about the language bits you're drawing from (since these are very much at the base of your points - the "words"), people might understand the language/name stuff you're suggesting.
  
  Repeating YHWH means: "meaning, according to DS" and IHVH means: "meaning, according to DS" many times isn't explanation and proof, it's more like doctrine...
  
  Otherwise, technically, 'high-brow' renditions of uncommon knowledge is oppressive, too - like an "inside joke" or something - it can be viewed with criticism and thus, create barriers in discussion.
  
  Suggesting that others are 'this way or that way' or that they have 'this or that' attribute of character is also very oppressive...it's not just you doing this - it's how this thread is going with a number of people throwing in sarcasms, baiting each other, etc...
  
  Again, I'm just putting this message out and associating it to you because this is the thread you started... actually, we're all being quite disrespectful here - or at least those are who are engaged in baiting, offense and defense word-sparring, ridiculing, downtalking, insulting, distracting from the main topic, etc...
  
  *shakes head* <---- because I'm sure I've either just P+ssed someone off or set myself up for ridicule in posting this but it's really upsetting to see human beings argue in this way...
  
  It's not a plain argument in here...as with in many other religion-belief topic threads, it's a word-WAR in here. People are doing their utmost to oppress each other, slam each other mentally, emotionally and spiritually down...
  
  And here I thought the way OUT of all the wars and away from spiritual, emotional and mental oppression was going to be through the creativity of words and through communication between human beings...
  
  I must have read all the wrong books and had all the wrong teachers, I guess...
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your tone is full of rage when it is unnecessary. There is no need to write as if you're riled up when I know you are really entertained by all this. Otherwise, why bother, right?
  
  The rage is coming from somewhere else vented here, in your safe place where you can lash back at people you don't have to see face to face.
  
  And I know you think its IHVH, but then I is a variation of Y just it is a variation of J. There are really just 10 letters. Do not get petty with the name. It is inappropriate for a teacher of the Kabbalah.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  everyone here is passing time. waiting to go to bed. waiting to see if someone took the bait. The Gd topic is a stage. The real topic is the Self.
  
  It's all about you, so to speak. And with everybody thinking that it is really nothing more than a conversation with oneself. You can react to criticism angrily or act honestly, meaning be entertained. I thank everybody here for keeping me company when my family is sleeping and I'm finishing my last cup of of tea.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ceci,
  the Yod is the FIRST and LAST 'dot' in Hebrew script. The point of all beginning/end. Every letter. So, even if a name is attributed to Him, it always begins/ends with the Yod.
  
  The character represents the single point from which all things come. To me, that would be 'God'.
  
  { ps, i haven't watched more than 10 minutes of television in ages, so i am a little slow there. lol. }
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yod is the tenth letter of the Hebrew alphabet and rhymes with code. It is not a name.
  It's also not YHWH..it's IHVH. another
  It's the Tetragrammaton. There were no vowels back then, just consonants.
  You think you know all and you know NOTHING. You prove this daily.
  Keep calling me a woman with a familiar spirit and I will write the owner of hubpages a long letter.
  Your insults prove you have no idea who God is.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Was I speaking to or about you, no. so have a nice day.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I started the thread and can post here. You and Cecil hijacked this thread. All just to call me names. Have you read the rules about hijacking? Calling folks names?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you see what you're doing right now?
  I went through the last 10 posts in two threads and all you are doing is mirroring and rebutting useless banter. Why?
  
  "you hijacked my thread"
  
  Its not your thread, it is a thread on Hubpages.com
  Seriously.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  When you reply please look to the left....read the rules...Then read on another thread about this. People banned for hijacking.
  
  Are you still speaking of my topic?
  Then you hijecked the thread..
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Name calling?
  So you calling people stupid, know nothings, etc is any better?
  Really? And what name did I call you -Deborah Sexton"? (which is not even your name).
  
  For such a proud woman, peppered with titles, you come off quite insecure, when people challenge or dispute your position?!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  wow first time, i read you actually snap at someone!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  When did I say someone was stupid or knew nothing?
  Show me.
  
  Now I may have talked back after being told in public that I have familiar spirits or that I am a sorceress
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
Brenda, you are a delight. But I can't help but ask why you STILL partake of milk and cling to the old rugged cross when you know HE IS RISEN?
I can see the sorcerer and her followers fornicating in the temple, but you who has such great passion for Him, still neglecting the gift given to you freely...
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps my gift is humility before Him. Not before mankind, but before Him.
  I am only dust without Him.
  
  Who says that's only milk? Because it's a thing that many cannot maintain nor reach. It took Job a long time to do that, yet he was a righteous man all along!
  
  I seek not the Spirit because I already was given that the day I got saved!
  If I need more filling, He will pour it into me or spoon it in when He sees I can hold it! That way I won't choke on it as many others do who seek knowledge.
  
  And I will add that all knowledge is not wisdom.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  humility is not fear, love. humility is knowing He was before you and makes you strong, yes? Indeed, humble yourself to be lifted up. But once lifted up, can you remain at the feet of an empty cross, search an empty tomb or even stare into the sky? Of course not.
  you must now put on the robes of righteousness, put on the armor of faith and let the Spirit restore what was.
  
  It is milk. For the meat of Truth makes one able to actually "do" v. believe they can do or want to do. else, where is your testimony? You know You can do through Him -and Him alone. Why do you not do as He instructed? What knowledge do you need? If the vessel is already prepared, the wedding feast prepared, should you not eat what the Master has prepared for you? Else He will be insulted and give your portion to the dogs, who are not worthy to eat from His table...
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But indeed I'm one of those "dogs", a Gentile willing to eat the crumbs from His table...any crumbs. For it is all still as exotic as the first taste!
  
  And I'm not worthy to do those great miracles you mean.
  My ego wouldn't handle that power properly. I daresay no one's will, or very few! And so we're back to square one, with me kneeling at the empty Cross in remembrance, lest I forget and think I'm more than I am. Lest I forget what He did for me.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  indeed, but when you eat, you are filled yes?
  who made you unworthy? not He nor your consciousness.
  so then, divide the truth correctly and accept that grace which is.
  Even if you were to 'think' you were, the spirit in you would keep you from such things taught by men to deceive you into slavery of doctrine and law.
  To forget who you are is to forget you are saved by Grace through His Faith. So do this in remembrance of Him. Now, come BOLDLY to the throne of Grace and be the one He predestined you to be. He being FIRST OF MANY tells you and convicts you so. This is the humbling of the Spirit -to remind you whom you were made from, saved by, and are to be!
  
  { am getting extremely joyful over here!!!! }
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am....pondering this, James.
  Soul-searching; spirits-testing.
  
  I've often said I was born for such a time as this (this current day in which we live.) But I say that about every Believer. We're all destined to fulfill His purposes, IF we will just say Yes to Him.
  
  I don't analyze that purpose very much for myself. He controls that. I'm only a vessel. A much-Loved one; a child of the King! I am Highly Blessed, similar to how Mary was blessed (as all Believers are!) But still a vessel whose heart is set on worshipping only Him, for eternity. And pointing the way toward Him while I live; a burden for lost souls.
  
  I'm a simple person. I have to keep it simple.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  morning Brenda.
  Hope you saw my replies as an encouragement not a rebuke.
  
  Yes,I do believe it, wholeheartedly.
  We are to be transformed.
  I don't think about the 'miracle' side so much; more so the spirit-mind-body experience. This has gotten me into much trouble with ministers, churches, friends and strangers alike, preacher, proselytes, demon chasers, practitioners, and more...
  
  Yet, many are beginning to come forward with this, which really surprises me. Even in this group there are a few. And of course there will always be those who force the law upon the worn-torn, tired, afflicted and oppressed, weak in faith-heart, to keep them in bondage; slaves to the knowledge of sin. Heaven forbid believers should erase their minds of the knowledge of sin, law, death and renew their entire being to Grace!(sarcasm )
  
  Grace came before the laws, fulfilled the laws and restored all things.
  
  Have a great morning!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes James I did see it as an encouragment.
  But sorry, I'm not buying it.
  
  Spirits tested. More posts read of yours read. Lotsa pondering. And I came back to the same conclusion-----God is God. I was born to worship Him, not be Him. All things are NOT God. He is a real being, albeit Spirit.
  When He said He is Alpha and Omega, He didn't mean He's in all things, just that He has always BEEN and will be and that He MADE all things.
  He is not a result of some abstract explosion. Neither are we humans.
  Your words would seem to make Him out to be a neutral piece of...something....that we can grab at our whim and take whatever we want from it. You're preaching some "new age" philosophy that I'm not going to feed into, no matter how well-meaning I believe you are.
  
  He is worthy to be worshipped! He, in the form of Jesus, died FOR YOU and me. I will not forget that. I wish you hadn't.
  
  If my purpose is to ever work miracles, God will work them through me; it will not be I who works anything; it will not be I who calls anything into existence, for only HE can do that.
  The miracles to be focused on are those of salvation. That's what He came to do, and it's what His followers should be striving for and pointing others toward.
  
  Tell Tom Cruise or John Travolta or Joel Osteen or whatever famous people it is that you cater to, to repent and come back to their first love the Lord, if indeed they ever knew Him...
  
  ..And if not, you will miss your calling if you don't point them toward that empty Cross.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He did no such thing, brenda. He did not die for James. That's Paul's guilt propaganda. Jesus dying (as myth, not as history because there are some sources that say he did not die that day when he died, there are even accounts that Judas did not betray him...anyway let's stick to the persistent myth) is a metaphor for the seed planted on earth and raised up as a tree. A source of life. The tree theme peppers Jewish literature because a tree is very important in their doctrine. The writers were using existing symbols to communicate his role in raising consciousness or bringing awareness.
  
  Jesus was punished by the court on account of being "a son of god"-- namely a sorcerer, as it was termed then. There were a lot of sorcerers in his time. But he was not misusing the Tree of Life for magical purposes. He really got the gist of it! He was able to let the Father Reign in him. so, he says "The reign is at hand." and remember when he said in a controversial reading of the Torah "today the scriptures are fulfilled". ofcourse he was misunderstood. What he was declaring is that that day Gd reigned in him. He was not an animal but a godlike being, walking with awareness. He was claiming being intouch with his godself. Now the romans, being indoctrinated in sons of zeus and aphrodite, totally scrambled the semetic metaphors with theirs and the rest is ---well, a deepening of history into myth. Myth to project our psychic needs to.
  
  He actually called himself The Son of HUMANITY. Meaning that which came from humanity.
  
  I know you feel a personal relationship with Jesus and that's good. That's better than feeling lost and alone. But the personal relationship has to deepen. Like in the case of your husband. You can't stay in prince charming/princess mode with him. You have to grow into something else. Something more honest and more substantial so that people like James, or Mark or myself don't rattle your faith. Because it is not faith anymore. It's certainty that you know what you believe. That its founded upon a rock and not sand.
  
  Defending your world view is natural. But also, try to see that every one has a world as valid as your own.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda, you mis-see my efforts.
  The totality of all things IS Him.
  So no matter what ideology man can muster up, the Truth is evident.
  Are we that totality? Certainly not. Should we worship Him? Absolutely.
  Not with our words or thoughts or feelings or limbs or good deeds -but with EVERY FIBER OF OUR BEING.
  
  To do so, we MUST put on the robes of righteousness and BE THE IMAGE HE DESIGNED US TO BE, not some prefabricated, hokus pokus, doctrine of MAN. Temples, tablets, statues, books, bangles, banter, beads and prayer chains, etc etc.
  
  This is always my reference to Grace. This IS Grace.
  The Word fulfilled in us, not what humans THINK the word is.
  But rather what the Word made you to be.
  This is the dividing line between that thing called life & death.
  
  This is why I keep saying there is no such thing as G/god, because the notion of it, defiles who He is -everything. This is Spirit. Once anyone grabs hold of the Truth, without personal interpretation, everything changes.
  
  The abilities revealed by Y`shua are nothing really. Raising the dead, feeding the multitudes, healing, etc. All these things are natural to the true creation we are.
  
  I know you are stuck in thinking my expressions are some New Age philo, but they aren't. If it was, people would be flocking to it -like they are most religions/sciences and practices of law.
  
  Ponder this: Enoch walked WITH Him. It never says enoch thought he was Him at any time.
  did Enoch worship Him? Yes.
  did Enoch love Him? Yes.
  did Enoch listen to him? Yes.
  did the fullness of the Word live in Him? Yes.
  did the spirit within him become so full of light that he couldn't remain on a sinful planet? Yes.
  
  So nothing anyone says or does relates to him, the only one able to supersede it was Y`shua, who did it to restore us to perfection in Him. Can you see that as a NOW event? This was the whole point of his manifesting. He told us and showed us who we are, what we are to do, think, etc and most amazingly, what we wil look like when we unite ourselves with Him.
  
  We know there is more to Life than sitting humbly at the cross, waiting for the blessed sky to part.
  
  Remember the talent parable...
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What is "knowledge" and what is "wisdom," if there's a difference?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not Brenda..but you have replied to me about what I have said to others.
  Of course there is a difference in Wisdom and Knowledge.
  
  On a mundane level
  Knowledge is something learned, information obtained.
  Wisdom is good judgment of that knowledge. Being Wise
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for the clarifications on "knowledge" and "wisdom," Deborah Sexton...
  
  If I referred to you as "Brenda" at some point, I do apologize. The question about difference between knowledge and wisdom was an open question - perhaps I should have specified that it was open to all to answer.
  
  I replied, yes, to you, Deborah Sexton, about what you've said to others... and likely, offense was taken to what I posted about 8-10 posts above, however, you haven't addressed what was posted above.
  
  I have enjoyed many of your posts in the past, Ms. Sexton, and most have been insightful, respectful posts throughout many threads in the forums, in my opinion - however - I believe I'm seeing you struggle here and lash out with defensive stragegies and such. I was pointing out, in the post higher up, that you're resorting to oppressive tactics in "argument" and these are causing further damage for getting your points across.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I replied to you above???
  I'm sorry but I don't care what you think of me. It doesn't change who I am.
  
  You might want to read the above replies to you that you have overlooked.
  Pay attention to the bold letters.
  
  I didn't say you called me Brenda..where do you get that?
  I was stating though you replied to Brenda, I was answering anyway.
  
  See here is the problem. No one cares to take their time to read and understand what is being said.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Deborah Sexton, I was assuming from the defensive tone of yours I'm detecting late in this thread that you may have thought I mistook you for or mistyped Brenda instead of your name and offered the apology as a matter of showing some respect - just in case I DID mistype something...
  
  I understand your clarification now.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh - more clarification... I answered/responded AS I made my way down the page... your response is below...
  
  I admit, I do get a bit confused at the threading, but had been diligently re-reading and searching as I progressed down the page...
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure how you are viewing the forums.
  Go to the top of this page and you will see "Threaded" or "Chronological"..click on Chronological and your view of the forum will be better. I think it defaults to threaded which can be confusing.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. I was in 'threaded' view. I've switched to "chronological" and you're right - much easier to sort out.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Critical thinking and discourse STOPS as soon as we beging "defending" from personal POVs while forgetting to draw upon the critical knowledge (and possibly cite sources or make further explanation) we hold that provides our strong POV...
  
  Not trying to 'trash' on you, Ms. Sexton...just showing what I see going on in your 'discourse.' I would sure like to see the more objective, informative posts I began to get used to from you over the past couple of months (I didn't "hang out" much in the forum before about February) rather than 'defenses on personal attacks,' 'blanket segregations' of "those people" and "we who believe in this" and all that sort of stuff.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  To be honest, I like who I am and I am tired of people telling me what to do and how to answer. I am not a child.
  
  Stop ridiculing me and remove the beam from your own eye.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've conveyed nothing to ridicule you, Ms. Sexton. I apologize if you feel I have been ridiculing you or if you feel the need to tell me you are not a child. I'm responding to clarify things you seem to be misunderstanding in my posts.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You need to stop with your name calling and you need to do it now.
  You like to hide behind the internet because you think you're safe.
  You have no idea what you are talking about and accuse others of still drinking milk.
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  Rajab Nsubugaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are we yet to have a Deborah Bible? 'Lady!' you don't have to answer to everything here, I suppose it is the only way to keep it civil. In my country aspirin is costly!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I started the thread and the attacks are against me.
  Who are you?
  Who said you have to read what is written?
  Cure your headache by going away.
  
  Since I am giving from the existing Hebrew Torah there is no reason for a Deborah Bible..However the one you believe in came from men..so how would it be different.
  
  Not interested in learning? Then there is no need to read.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah! Back at ya.
  
  YOU've been reported.
  
  Stop calling me a Shemale! I don't have a dick lady, so get over yourself. And "DO IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
  
  (((I see you are playing nicely again in the forums today.)))
  
  You are disrespectful. You are rude. I'm don't have a pecker, but big boobs. SO now you have insulted me for the last time.
  
  You best get your act together, and best "do it now."
  _____________________________________________________________________
  
  How did I do everyone? Pretty good huh?
  
  I felt stupid as hell just then, but maybe she'll get the point.
  
  Maybe.....
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL More information than I ever needed to know, IntimatEvolution.
  
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  THanks!
  
  She is always calling me a guy. So I just tried to put a spin to her own accusations and stupid word play.
  
  I thought I did a pretty good job at acting the part.
  
  By the way, you are my hero! You never did any insulting either. Her childish games, hateful monologue and her idle threats need to go away and be stopped. I myself am getting pretty sick and tired of your threating remarks. She acts like she is some sort of tough guy, coming to beat you up over the Internet wire, "if you don't stop it now."
  
  It is getting out of hand and extremely detrimental to the hubpages community forum. Look at her hubber score. It says it all.
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I thought you were a guy too. Not by your picture, but by other standards.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  interesting...
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I, too, felt the posts in this thread had turned into a very detrimental, visible display of bad behaviors in the HubPages forum...
  
  Thanks for your support, IEvolution... I'm doing my best to read through the threads with a critical eye and manage my own temper well before I post - so that I don't post the same types of angry/oppressive words as I am reading so often in here.
  
  Actually, I LIKE TO read about and consider beliefs that do not coincide with my own current beliefs...sometimes I learn to be less rigid in beliefs I hold or find unexpected truths in other belief systems that I don't generally adhere to. I discuss "the controversial" all the time... but with peers who are OKAY with being reminded to use good form, respectful language, etc.
  
  What I find very often is that if I "take on" another person's beliefs for just a little while - and suspend my own for just a little while - I find out a great deal about SIMILARITIES between belief systems....... however, this never happens (the recognition of similarities) when I am in "reaction mode." Understanding how beliefs and principles are the same - before entering other arguments about differences - always helps me stay a little calmer when there are oppressive statements going on - and things that appear as "hate speech."
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I love the topic of "Jesus" and study "Jesus Narratives." I was previously impressed with Ms. Sexton's indications of knowledge of word origins and things of that nature...
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It is ashame that ugliness gets in the way......
  
  If we don't learn for one another about why we feel this way or not, then we as individuals become dumber for it. The key to enlightenment and understanding, is through knowledge. However, some people are very crafty on turning factual knowledge into a side show of unpalatable rhetoric with their demeaning character insults, false accusations, and threats. In other words, when ugliness gets in the way.
  
  Have a good evening. I'm off to watch the boob tube with my son.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Another thing, except to get your butt chewed out by Debbie ole'girl for not calling her Deborah Sexton.
  
  What a joke.
  
  Night myth- have a good one.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Enjoy the boobtube with your son. Thx for the notes.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Back as me? I didn't say anything to you, so how can it be back at me?
  Your statement that I have been reported..is that suppose to frighten me? I have links to your posts where you say the most vulgar things..here where even children can read them.
  No one called you a shemale. Those are your own words after I said you have two identities..
  Look at your dirty language in this thread. Did you report yourself? I don't know of any self respecting female who would be so vulgar around others.
  If Hubpages doesn't want me here then they need to give me time to remove my articles. I will post them on my own website.
  
  Don't order me around as though you have authority over me. Nothing you can say or do, means anything to me. I have said nothing to you. I have told those who say I am a sorceress and have demons to stop saying it. I didn't threaten anyone, I demanded it. Because someone else doesn't have the same beliefs as me, doesn't mean they can say I have demons.
  
  I'm disrespectful and rude? I certainly don't respect you.
  
  You absolutely make me shake in my boots...with your vulgarity that is. Look at the things you say here.
  Insulted you? Show me where I have done that..please..
  
  I best get my act together and do it now? WHO ARE YOU? Again nothing you say means anything to me.
  
  Yes, I got your point...but not the way you think I did. Now go insult someone else..because that is what you do. You push people and it is rare anyone responds to you. Have you noticed that? I wonder why?
  ______________
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This from a women, who snips and copies other peoples work, and claims it as her own.
  
  Hey Debbie dearest, thought you promised to never comment back to my posts! What happened? You said you were not going to comment back. I guess you lied. Darn!
  
  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  I guess we all can officially add liar, to the long list of personal characteristics, that starts with plagiarist.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  When you come in here lying about me and slandering me, you better be able to back up what you say.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  More idle threats!
  
  Like that's original.
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
remember:

possession IS nine-tenths of the Law.

You are NOT under the Law, but ARE of Grace.
Time to shake off the golden or rusted chains of bondage, because He set you free.

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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So ... one can only be possessed if they are under the law? (90% of the time)
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  :p Yup.
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Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago
Mythbuster

Isn't this a rather oppressive and non-critical way to discuss things?

I'm addressing you, Deborah Sexton, but please don't take offense. I'm just posting in response to YOU because this is the thread you started in the forum...and I'm seeing a very "reactive" Deborah Sexton at this point in the thread.
_____________________________________________________

In reply to your long post to me here: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/39650?page=7#post935651
At least scroll down and read the BOLD words.

It didn't start out that way. However the ones here who are attacking me have put hours in following me from thread to thread...
Calling me names, misquoting me etc...
Why don't you search for these endless posts..I'm pretty tired of it by now.
How long would you not talk back? Not long, you would either disappear altogether or do as I have..mirror them back

No, you're not seeing a reactive anything. I have chosen to respond the way I have. I don't react out of control. I mirror back to those who come in and try to stiffle others through name calling.

Never once have I said anything because of right or wrong concepts of truth. It is the attacks..the hate shown to me.
I don't care if someone believes me or not. I am not looking for supporters. However as a matter of fact I have gained over 11 new followers due to my posts. There are people who would like to know something other then the same stuff they have heard over and over for years and years.

In my tone? Yet the other people's tone in your opinion is excusable? All that tells me is you believe what they do and would like to stiffle what I say.

So you don't feel someone should present ideas that aren't the norm? and you don't feel there is anything wrong written in the New Testament and words don't matter? Yet in the other post to me you state Satan means adversary (which is true) hummm strange. So words are important when you want to use them to prove I am wrong. I got you.

I am stating what IHVH means in Hebrew not what it means to me.
You do know there are mistransliterations and translation of language. NO?

If it was common knowledge why would I present it?
Oppressive because it is uncommon knowledge? So you don't believe in teachers?

I'm saying that people have this and that attribute character? Did you not read where I am said to have familiar spirits and even worse..from thread to thread each time I speak? And aren't you saying I have certain attribute characters? Yes, you are. Now no one has addressed you or called you a sorceress or devil but here you are saying I have a problem..wow! So actually, it is me who is allowed to fight them back. Yet what right do you have to say those things about me?

Everyone is disrespectful but you?
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I was sure I clearly conveyed that many of us (not excluding myself from the general 'group' and I didn't in my other posts, either) are not engaged in decent discourse and that the thread has turned into a bunch of oppressive, attack-and-defend posting.
  
  I was also sure I conveyed my understanding that I see you being attacked in here...and suggested that an oppressive tone undermines decent discourse. I have in no way said to stop stating your beliefs. I have in no way, anywhere, said that words don't matter. I'm not sure where you get this from. I've never once stated that any other negative 'tone' of conversation is okay while yours is not.
  
  Yes, I surely do believe people should express ideas that are not the norm - the agreement in this is why I come in to read posts at the forum, however, ideas expressed with oppressive overtones and tactics are not very useful. Of course words matter - and so do the more overlooked items of tone...
  
  Yes, I do know there are mistakes in translations of Scriptures and all sorts of things... in an earlier post, I merely said if you provide more information about those details, rather than just your word/statements, more people will understand you. Probably more people will take you seriously and learn from you if you provide slightly more information than "these letters have this meaning in another language" especially when those letters represent/stand for the "Higher Power" so many people keep scrapping about.
  
  Why have you qualified another of my posts in this way?:
  
  "So you don't feel someone should present ideas that aren't the norm? and you don't feel there is anything wrong written in the New Testament and words don't matter? Yet in the other post to me you state Satan means adversary (which is true) hummm strange. So words are important when you want to use them to prove I am wrong. I got you. "
  
  I wasn't aware that I was using a tidbit on the word "Satan" to prove you wrong, Ms. Sexton. I believed I was pointing out that, in context, words have meanings that we must pay close attention to. If we "interpret" everything non-critically and according to the handiest explanations, we aren't going to get down to many "truths."
  
  DS: "I got you." You got me? What's that about?
  
  This part is most interesting to me:
  
  "I'm saying that people have this and that attribute character? Did you not read where I am said to have familiar spirits and even worse..from thread to thread each time I speak? And aren't you saying I have certain attribute characters? Yes, you are. Now no one has addressed you or called you a sorceress or devil but here you are saying I have a problem..wow! So actually, it is me who is allowed to fight them back. Yet what right do you have to say those things about me? "
  
  Did I mention anything about 'familiar spirits' related to you? No, I did not - why would you bring this distraction in to your post?
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I don't think I've been disrespectful. I keep wondering why you think my words are disrespectful.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mythbuster
  In my reply to you above..I gave you an answer to each of the paragraphs in the link I provided above.
  Below I will post what you said and my response to it so you can see why I said what I did.
  It's going to be long but you wanted to know why I said what I did.
  
  Yours will be in black and my reply in blue.
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
in all honesty, I have been looking for the "works of the Nicolaitanes" as it is written in the bible. Interesting because it says God "hates" their works, and so I wanted to know what their works were. I read your post yesterday and researched what you have said last night. Very enlightening. I will never call him Jesus again. His true name is more important than the traditional and pagan associated name of man.

Sooner.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Nicolaitanes are the ones that change God's word..it is not really a particular people..it can be a people, a religion, a nationality.
  
  In Numbers..Balak wanted Baalam (a true prophet of God) to curse Israel. So Baalam asked God to allow this. God told Baalam no and that if Balak requested him to go to him again, not to go.
  
  Balak sent his men again to ask Baalam to go and curse Israel..Once more Baalam asked God about it. (which didn't make God happy)
  
  To make this short. Baalam had to bless not curse Israel.
  
  He did however tell Balak how he could cause Israel to lose favor in God's sight..and he stated it would manifest most in the latter days.
  
  So Balak listened to Baalam's plan and sent the women of his tribe to seduce the Israelites..and cause them to marry into them...
  After a while Israel turned away from God and started worshiping Balak's idols... and fell from God's favor...Israel was also divided.
  
  In other words what happened is that the Israelites became indoctrinated by seducing spirits and they believed a lie..
  The same as it is today...The Greeks/Romans/ and churches have changed what the words says and because of the confusing text, it has created many false religions..through false Bibles.
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Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago
From your post to me: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/39650?page=7#post935651

Mythbuster
Isn't this a rather oppressive and non-critical way to discuss things?

It didn't start out that way. However the ones here who are attacking me have put hours in following me from thread to thread...
Calling me names, misquoting me etc...
Why don't you search for these endless posts..I'm pretty tired of it by now.
How long would you not talk back? Not long, you would either disappear altogether or do as I have..mirror them back

I'm addressing you, Deborah Sexton, but please don't take offense. I'm just posting in response to YOU because this is the thread you started in the forum...and I'm seeing a very "reactive" Deborah Sexton at this point in the thread.

No, you're not seeing a reactive anything. I have chosen to respond the way I have. I don't react out of control. I mirror back to those who come in and try to stiffle others through name calling.
Now remember you stated you were ADDRESSING me not others, but me.

Regardless of right or wrong bases of knowledge, the way in which information is conveyed is always important, in my opinion. You'll gain no supporters or even 'listeners' while using oppressive methods and terms and while you're separating people of your own accord into "us" and "them" and "I" vs. "all you mistaken people" - I know you haven't used that exact phrase but this is what you've effectively conveyed...

Never once have I said anything because of right or wrong concepts of truth. It is the attacks..the hate shown to me.
I don't care if someone believes me or not. I am not looking for supporters. However as a matter of fact I have gained over 11 new followers due to my posts. There are people who would like to know something other then the same stuff they have heard over and over for years and years.

In the "tone" of your posts, you're not 'informing,' but providing "elite" and 'uncommon' knowledge on very controversial topics...it might be considered 'high-brow' show tactics, according to some people - but if you were to provide a different tone, along with some links/references where people can read about the language bits you're drawing from (since these are very much at the base of your points - the "words"), people might understand the language/name stuff you're suggesting.

In my tone? Yet the other people's tone in your opinion is excusable? All that tells me is you believe what they do and would like to stiffle what I say.

Repeating YHWH means: "meaning, according to DS" and IHVH means: "meaning, according to DS" many times isn't explanation and proof, it's more like doctrine...

I am stating what IHVH means in Hebrew not what it means to me.
You do know there are mistransliterations and translation of language. NO? If it was common knowledge why would I present it?
Oppressive because it is uncommon knowledge? So you don't believe in teachers?

Otherwise, technically, 'high-brow' renditions of uncommon knowledge is oppressive, too - like an "inside joke" or something - it can be viewed with criticism and thus, create barriers in discussion.

So you don't feel someone should present ideas that aren't the norm? and you don't feel there is anything wrong written in the New Testament and words don't matter? Yet in the other post to me you state Satan means adversary (which is true) hummm strange. So words are important when you want to use them to prove I am wrong. I got you.

Suggesting that others are 'this way or that way' or that they have 'this or that' attribute of character is also very oppressive...it's not just you doing this - it's how this thread is going with a number of people throwing in sarcasms, baiting each other, etc...

I'm saying that people have this and that attribute character? Did you not read where I am said to have familiar spirits and even worse..from thread to thread each time I speak? And aren't you saying I have certain attribute characters? Yes, you are. Now no one has addressed you or called you a sorceress or devil but here you are saying I have a problem..wow! So actually, it is me who is allowed to fight them back. Yet what right do you have to say those things about me?

Again, I'm just putting this message out and associating it to you because this is the thread you started... actually, we're all being quite disrespectful here - or at least those are who are engaged in baiting, offense and defense word-sparring, ridiculing, downtalking, insulting, distracting from the main topic, etc...

*shakes head* <---- because I'm sure I've either just P+ssed someone off or set myself up for ridicule in posting this but it's really upsetting to see human beings argue in this way...

It's not a plain argument in here...as with in many other religion-belief topic threads, it's a word-WAR in here. People are doing their utmost to oppress each other, slam each other mentally, emotionally and spiritually down...

And here I thought the way OUT of all the wars and away from spiritual, emotional and mental oppression was going to be through the creativity of words and through communication between human beings...

I must have read all the wrong books and had all the wrong teachers, I guess...

Everyone is disrespectful but you?
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mythbusterposted 15 years ago
Halfway down the page on page 9, Ms. Sexton, I have adequately replied...and am still quite puzzled at your oppressive, now aggressive tone, and that you've thought me disrespectful.

I've made two or three apologies in the midst of all this 'communication' with you, at points where it seems there could be some misunderstanding or misinterpretation - and still - you perceive of great faults or inclinations against you that I am continually committing.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You stated you were addressing it to me and all through your post you stated it was me who was wrong.
  
  What I wrote is not new, it is from a post I made a couple pages back..this post http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/39650?p … post937298 is a combination of my post and your post a couple pages back. I posted it so you can see where and why I made my statements...
  
  Now are you saying that in this post of both your words and my reply, you don't see you have said anything insulting...Click on the above link and read again..what you said first and I responded to. Your puzzled about my oppression. Look where you stated IHVH according to DS..and all the other things you said to me.
  
  You may have apologized but I haven't found it and words spoken don't return void. Words always do what they were sent out to do.
  
  This is my last reply to you about anything. Take care.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, Deborah Sexton, I do believe it is wrong to post such oppressive comments and - without piecing together a ton of various posts between you and I, which you have now done already, I thought I was very clear in my original post in this thread. Your methods of communicating here are oppressive and your points about the name of Jesus and other closely related arguments in this forum-thread are taking an unnecessary second place to all the post-digging and insinuations, "baiting" and "defending" going on as of late.
  
  I'll quote from my own original post just one more time in case I have been unclear, hoping, of course, that you don't find this disrespectful:
  
  "It's not a plain argument in here...as with in many other religion-belief topic threads, it's a word-WAR in here. People are doing their utmost to oppress each other, slam each other mentally, emotionally and spiritually down..."
  
  It would be nice if some critical thinking occurred soon here.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I wish I read this before I wrote the other posts. Deborah seems to crave to be taken seriously. But you can't demand respect from people though. You can inspire it by respecting yourself. I see Hubpages forums as social laboratories. You see instantly what behaviors will most likely attract insults. I have had my share and it is interesting what people respond to and how. So people who get picked on here, get picked on in their work place as well or their social circles. Maybe not as blatantly, though. If you get it, you get it. If you don't you just make a total fool of yourself then you wonder why nobody respects you.
  
  Rule of thumb is, you behave badly, people are going to behave badly around you. Jesus said something like that but in the positive. ya?
  
  Kabbalah simplified for the lower class citizens of Jerusalem. It was the rave, what can I say?
  
  we just like to set right the Deborah in all of us. we all have this side, otherwise we wouldn't even bother with her. so cast the first stone, ya?
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "Kabbalah simplified for the lower class citizens of Jerusalem. It was the rave, what can I say?"
  
  What is meant by this, ceciliabeltran? Could you message me or send/post a link so I can learn more about this?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, ok. I don't know where to begin. but i will try.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, I do not see anything I've said that is insulting, Deborah Sexton. As well, I've already apologized a number of times while sustaining many sorts of distraction and deflection tactics from your posts.
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Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago
I'm amazed at how people see themselves..as flawless. Yet scripture is right when it says our own words will judge us. It also says when people judge another, they judge themselves. Because with whatever measure we use to judge another..we will be judged with the same.

A lot of people like to try to be the boss of others as though it is a position given to them.
Yet I see people getting all puffed up..while they tell someone else they are puffed up...They chase you for hours to tell you over and over how wrong you are and to show you your flaws.

One important thing to do is to know yourself. It takes a lot to admit we need to change ourselves..before we can tell someone else to. That's the mote. People hide their flaws from themselves and then start to look for other peoples flaws...This helps them to feel better about themselves. Sad but true.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  More deflections and distractions.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am interested in the name, the picture and the comment. I'm going to see your hubs. You do know that myth plays an important part in human awareness?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you taking them too seriously. They're just most likely bored or entertained by the bantering. If you don't want anybody to pick on you, then ignore comments you don't like. You know that right?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And yet you reply to everyone's...wow
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  that's okay, I don't get riled up. I enjoy the banter. I ignore comments that are insulting and then they just go away. then it becomes positive banter of people who disagree on many things but have formed mutual respect. This can happen by the way.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's because you didn't start the thread that got averted (hijacked) and no one called you a demon.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've started forums but have not so far inspired anyone to call me a demon. The worst I got was "woowoo" and sweatie pie which is I'm beginning to like.
  
  why would you be offended by "demon" when you are not? You are not a "demon". so? who cares? demons are rejected daimons. The demon is an angel bearing a message you refuse to hear. Hence the malevolent face, it is a frightening truth that insists on being heard. If somebody calls you a demon, it means you reached a core truth that that person rejects. People you anger are actually those who care about your opinion. It's true. Otherwise why would they bother.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  she is insisting I spoke that she was a sorcerer and demon -which I did neither. familiar spirit ideology around her, I don't deny it. Especially when folk attempt to justify their position by quoting books -inaccurately I might add, to attempt to pile coals on someone elses head, when their own head is on fire.
  
  But again, my sight tells me there are issues far exceeding that needed attention. It is the only reason I bothered.
  Agreed, some do care, which is why I comment. But taking things personal, then deflecting to 'nana nana boo boo' just made me shake my head and say good luck chuck. Over the years I have found pride, beauty, self engaging concepts to be a mask of something very painful in people -be it abuse, neglect or some other primal conscious/neurological misfire...
  
  This applies to any side of the Ism and those who claim anti-ism.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think you understand what I meant by that and the language I used. Its just a way to tell her that the dark things have light hiding inside them. All we have to do is choose to see them.
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  Obscure Divineposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, no... Cecilia is talking about serpents again. Woot-woot!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey obscure, my demon's back ( and I mean that in the most loving way!) It's too early to be an insomniac!
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  Obscure Divineposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm, this much is true! Oh, almost forgot, Hi!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I inspired being called a demon?
  
  Wrong, he said that because of my beliefs. He said I had familiar spirits.
  
  Now, leave me alone.
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
a little advise D-Sexton and I'm only saying this because I've been there.
Don't defend yourself. A non believer only wants to knock you off your horse and then "fight" at ground level or mayby even play in the mud. Problem is, they have every advantage. For a long time I volunteered with juvenile delinquents who had a program that enabled them to practice a religion of their choice. Some get it, some don't. But many in here remind me of the mentality we find here.

For example, I was called a racist many times. But I am not racist. In fact juveniles maintain segregation within the institution and fight other races continually. Its just one of a thousand cards that someone can pull out that has "nothing wrong with them" nor any sense of self awareness.

In those situations- utter silence is their worst enemy. They are not interested in what you are talking about and I am not interested in what they are talking about. they only want to bring you down so that they can find fault in you and then publically identify your error. So, no defense. If you call someone what they are, just appologize and then ignore them. Better yet, don't call them out.

sooner.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  yeah, tried this. She doesn't take advice.
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
by the way, i really did learn something from this post. If you effect one person in a thousand you win.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah - but you haven't learned that you affect 1000 the opposite by acting the way you do. And it is not a competition. Which - you will never get.
  
  LOL at the nonbelievers attacking Sexton LOL - Quite the opposite. Still - listening to others never was your strong point was it?
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
Exhibit A.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just cannot learn anything can you? Even when I am trying to help you - you have all the answers.
  
  How is teaching the peasants about Jesus coming along? Are they scared that Jesus will send them to the bad place if they don't believe?
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yahshua, please respect that I call Jesus Yahshua now as per above. sooner.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  I don't care what you call him. And where I come from - you earn respect. Another lesson you don't care to learn.
  
  Still - you would have been proud of me - I helped a religious family who's son I converted to truth get over his death. The healing was wonderful when they realized he was actually dead now and they would not be seeing him in heaven. The denial was powerful, but they all feel able to join the real world now their blinkers are off. The two younger girls go off to college prepared to live life to the full instead of being scared of Jesus.
  
  I hope you will respect my decision to call your imaginary friend Jesus still?
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  please explain "you earn reaper"
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I hope you're joking.
  I can't imagine any "religious" family (at least, not any family that believes in God) that would let you near their child, much less allow you to "counsel" them about eternal matters. Or did you "convert" him on the sly?
  
  This post of yours has got to be the horriblest one yet.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  oh I wouldn't judge him. anyone who cooks very well has a soul
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
I'm an excellent listener mark. what would you like me to know?
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
The children teaching is going well though. Thanks. They are really receptive to truth and its refreshing what young bright minds are capable of.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am sure they are. It is best to brainwash them as young as possible. Loyola was clear on that. And the child abuse continuities. I am sure your god would be very, very proud of you. Dear me.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just as you are very very proud of yourself.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Aww another attack that is actually a compliment? 'least I am honest.......
  
  Anyway - what is not to be proud of? I am a fine specimen of homo sapien. At the moment I have a a sinus infection and am a little heavy for comfort since I quit smoking, but - it doesn't get much better than this.
  
  Sorry that bothers you so much.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No it is not an attack. It is illustrating a point that a religious person projects pride to a diety, and you along with other atheists own it. There is nothing different about you and a religionist. You are just dispensing with the projecting and owning your actions. A religionist would do it in the name of a god.
  
  Pride is pride. You could be god conceited, but really you are just conceited. In your case, you just own the conceit as your own. This is ok. I'm just saying its the same energy. Same sound different letter so to speak.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As usual - you are missing the point.
  
  I do not claim to be a humble servant of Jesus.
  
  It is a matter of honesty and intention.
  
  And I do it on purpose. Dear me. Do unto others...........
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I did not miss your point. I ignored it. I am illustrating that really you are no better than religionists because you operate on the same psycho-social premise. Namely I am better than you. It is okay to do this, just as long as you know everyone does this. There is no need to deny you are proud of your "awakening". It is for you a positive step towards your empowerment. But for many religionists, religion is a positive step towards empowerment.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah no - you are sadly mistaken as with everything else. I am not particularly proud of anything. Plus - I disagree with you that religion is a positive step towards anything.
  
  Please read a few history books and see the behavior of the believers - on the whole - not all, but enough to be a continuing damage to us. Remember the memes that you so desperately wanted me to grasp? I understand them only too well, and it will take generations of people like me to rewrite them so that we can leave this nonsense behind. If you believe that sort of stuff.
  
  But it requires active participation because the status quo is so strong. Live forever if you do as you are told? Powerful stuff. Fear driven. Fear is probably the strongest of all emotions. And the unhealthy aspect that dominates religion is not going to go away all on its own.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you in that it had catastrophic effects to the human psyche. But it was a struggle you see. Many luminaries from which religion came from ironically were trying to educate people that we are powerful beings in our own right, much much more than we think.
  
  The human consciousness is just not ready to accept such power. It is very difficult to accept that yes, this is what we have to work with and we will die trying to survive.
  
  I wouldn't blame it on religion. You practice Aikido right? In my old dojo, they almost religionize Morehei. And the belief in heirarchy and the power mongering, the japanese sensei sucking up just shows you that what begins as an enlightening tool for empowerment gets corrupted if the receiving cup is not ready.
  
  SO in this way, religion is the interim stage of human consciousness for true human empowerment. The focus should be to allow people to come into awareness in their own time.
  
  I do however agree with you that religion, particularly western ones impact our understanding of our nature.
  
  It did however bring tentative order in various communities enough for people who are more aware to emerge from the rubble.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps. Regardless - it will not go away on its own and I personally have decided that getting rid of it is a worthwhile expenditure of some of my time. I have tried doing it the other way and it does not work. Really. The moment you mention the word "god" people have allllll their own ideas and preconceptions.
  
  It needs cauterizing and that is a painful process that we are undergoing right now. It is not possible to avoid this step in the process. Even the bible says so.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well as with anyone about to commit suicide, you validate before you lead them out of the ledge. saying don't jump only makes them want to do it more just to prove a point.
  
  Just like telling Deborah she might be wrong, makes her even more glaringly wrong. It's a shame she does use head a lot. Lot of love put into her hubs. Wish she would just learn what it all means and apply it.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am not speaking to them. I may as well bang my head against a brick wall. But - these are open forums and anyone is free to read them. Memes.......
  
  You think I could persuade Brenda that she is not going to live forever because she attacks homosexuals as an abomination against god?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh geez really? She's probably fighting gay fears! I hope Brenda sees that Gay men really can't get it up even if they tried. And believe most of them desperately try.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well Mark, the us against them is very chic in the religionist circles. True awakening calls for compassion, you cannot rise above it if you judge. It's very hard not to judge stupidity. But I always remind myself that I am stupid in math too, so yes you could be stupid in one aspect of intelligence and brilliant in the next.
  
  They are just struggling to make sense of it as well but having a lot of fears in their psyche are holding on to the fear that keeps them from understanding what they are reading or hearing. But for those who try to find the truth, they do. the brain is just made that way, you seek you find. you ask you get an answer.
  
  Jesus was onto something there, and I mean this in the most non-religious way. But you can apply it in religious terms and it still works, ya? Truth really comes in many perspectives.
  
  Those who are afraid to see themselves though get lost in verse chapter this and kabbalah that and torah this and yeah i gotta pray five times sort of loop. These religious hooplah were meant to help us see ourselves and our nature...but as this lady once said (don't remember her name) "You cannot say unto another, here come to the light. For each comes in his own time and readiness.
  
  You can only celebrate the light in your life and other people who are ready will see the light through you."
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  One man's burning bush is another man's dim candle. I am doing it the way I see fit at the moment. I have done it differently in the past and will do so in the future.
  
  You might be surprised how many people write and thank me. There is something to be said for pushing some one into a corner and then allowing them the space to lash out at you.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh you have your own methods. No I'm not surprised. I believe you.
  I just think that you need to be there, your face should be there and your voice. So that the receiver feels your good will.
  
  But devoid of all that, you come across differently in forums.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Forums are a different space that is for sure, but - people often see what they want to see regardless of the space. I can usually spot the intentions - even through the clouded forum medium. And am quite happy to apologize on the odd occasion I get it wrong.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, it is an interesting view of human dynamics. And there's no need to apologize (to me at least, if that was meant for me though I think it was in general). I find differing views soon converge on a universal agreement of basic human truths.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If Jason livelonger couldn't make me believe a lie, you sure can't, Mark. Shameful that you'd brag about getting a young man to believe it.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I very much appreciate the mention of memes here, Mr. Knowles - and the association with the status quo. Such a simple notion, disliked and fought against by - Oh! The status quo...
  
  Thank you for inserting this HUGE TRUTH
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  the status quo is a bad habit of man literally. We like to free our cortex so much we relegate even choices that affect our survival to our lower functions. This is the status quo. "I don't want to study what I already know" that's the reptilian brain talking, the snaky snake side of the mind.
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  Obscure Divineposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't be hating upon the damn systematic cold-blooded reptiles; Geez!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  he he, i'm not hating them, obscure. just using the metaphor to activate a meme regarding snakes, serpent devil.
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  Obscure Divineposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, okay then. Thanks for, as they say, the "shout out." The term 'serpent' just sounds so nice; coiled with love and all that good stuff...
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no the meme is re-activated.... lol
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have a sinus infection too but I think its just the change of weather in general. lots of warm weather viruses came back to life. If you've been smoking for 6 years, you'll get back in shape in 6 months. Your cells are covered with nicotine and it was protecting you from outside attack but as you quit smoking (while weakening it), your cells having not formed its own protection due to the nicotine will be vulnerable to viruses and germs. But it will learn that it does not have that substance coating it anymore and will form its own. Heavy dose of folic acid and zinc will thoughen you up!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  6 years? I wish. 36 years - and the last 6 months have been hell. LOL - Ill with one thing or another the entire time.
  
  But - I wanted to quit smoking before I hit 50.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  well studies show that if you started to smoke after 19, you'll be fine. It becomes quite a struggle if you started earlier. You'll be fine. That's just two years of discomfort versus the years you'll add to your life. Just know that the downside is normal and you're headed towards a more sustainable health.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL Maths not your strong point then?
  
  50-36 = 14 I actually started when I was 13 - so yes - it has been a struggle but I am turning a corner.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No its not. I didn't even bother. Yeah, you're screwed. hahahaha
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  Oh well. As a matter of interest I wear a gold ankh.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I see now. You're a gyptian! Raised from the crypt of the unconscious. See, I am too. But I came from another pyramid.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Different alien Daddy you mean.......... LOL
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Different meteor soup, so to speak.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah - haven't quite gotten to that point then?
  
  You will, you will..........
  That was cruel.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No i have entertained that point, but i choose not to represent it as I have no valid opinion on that matter.
  
  What's cruel? Oh brenda fighting gay fears? Why is that cruel? All external battles are expressions of internal ones.
  
  I am being nice to gay men. They really really can't get it up and to say they are evil because they have a biological aversion to women even if they are socially pressured to marry them is just not reasonable.
  
  I am sorry brenda, I was just taking Mark's word for it that you want gay men to marry women they don't love and sleep with the driver on some nights.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You should take Mark's word for NOTHING concerning me.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I apologize once again. I was just lazy to do my background check. Will visit your hubs to see what you stand for and respond appropriately.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks.
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
ahh, you changed it. "you earn respect". yes, I know that phrase. for a second there I thought you were fantisizing about being a reaper. grim thought.

so you have some converts? what about their calling?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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Deborah Sextonposted 15 years ago
For the non-Kabbalist and/or non-Hebrew..There is no such thing in Hebrew as a J.

Also the I is there because that is the sound of Y in pronunciation When it is at the beginning of a word or name.

I am closing this thread now.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well - I for one want to offer a big thank you. despite slt's assumption that it was non-believers "attacking" you - I needed a reminder of why I feel the way I do about (all) your religions.
  
  So - Big Thank You. Great Fight. You could cut the condescension with a knife at certain points. Wonderful stuff. I am absolutely certain all your respective gods are pleased with the level of aggression and ill-will generated.
  
  Once again - BTY.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, sorry to disappoint you. This was the Christians and those who feel they believe the Christian doctrine that were so angry at me.
  What non-believers were here but you?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is what I said. slt was mistaken when he said "A non believer only wants to knock you off your horse and then "fight" at ground level or maybe even play in the mud." But - he is not a good listener. He even thinks that translating the bible to mean that inter-racial marriage is against the word of god does not make him a racist. LOLOLOLOL
  
  And I don't think I said a word until the embers were already dying.
  
  Once again - Big Thank You. I love watching religionists fight over who knows the Truth. Validates my personal opinion of the whole invisible super being thing. Great stuff.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The statement of Non-Believers can mean those who don't believe what was written in the thread. Many got angry because it went against their beliefs, therefore non-believers.
  
  My beliefs are about Archetypes not religion. My idea of God isn't the same as you think it is. You might want to venture to my Kabbalah hubs.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No thank you. I spent some time years ago studying the Kaballah amongst other esoteric doctrines and disciplines and have come to my own conclusions about these things.
  
  In any case - I do not really care for the "vibe" I get from you and have not seen you say anything that resonated with me so far.
  
  But - thanks for the offer. If I change my mind, I know where to find them.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, my vibe? What about yours?
  I've never found anything of contribution from you, only ridicule.
  I find this extremely funny.
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  Rishy Richposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But I dont find it funny. The only thing funny here ...is a woman filled with Tons of Sex (Sekston)
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  precious...my precious. Cast the ring of power in the fires of mordor.
  
  But it is my precious...NO!
  
  All of today's religions are from a great one we do not even remember clearly today. It gave birth to the Brahmins, the Vedic Aryans of Hinduism which led to buddhism, janism etc.
  
  Judaism is an offshoot of Egyptian beliefs, just as Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. For the love of Christ, I was baptized to worship a Jew! yeah? (Odd that the priest who married me to my husband call Jews Christ killers. I mean, what? You think the Irish were there to defend him at that time? The Irish were busy fishing!) So I wouldn't do the NOSE on Christians either. I mean we are all copycats at some point in History, right?
  
  Moses is Egyptian too, raised Egyptian and taught Egyptian. The ANKH is the One God for the egyptians no? The ANKH is actually the female genitalia. It is mother worship, which is in some kabbalistic commentaries the source of the idea behind the name YHVH (hebrew is YHVH, IHVH is Septuagint--greek) --the G-d that is around us. It's female, masculinized due to the early Semitic belief that a woman is the source of evil as a way to demonize ISIS. But these are just names. We were worshiping some invisible womb-like power ever since our brains towards our foreheads and higher up the crown. It is a recurring phenomenon in myth. It was a natural bi-product of the evolutionary development. (Or if Deborah's beliefs are your taste, we were created to believe in Gd because the brain is designed that way)
  
  Totally misunderstood teaching about the CUP, though. The rejection of women as an authority is just an illustration of how evil is not clearly understood. Evil is a cup that you pour good into. Yes, we are the ones who pour good into it. The act expands our knowledge of good.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Who was speaking to you?
  I posted that to someone else.
  Yet your advice to me is not to read other's comments.
  
  I started this thread and you guys hijacked it which is against Hubpages rules.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My advice to you was not to bother with comments that are meant to insult you. Don't bother with them or just pick the ones that you find further the discussion towards greater understanding of your thesis.
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  exhibit B is a perfect example of one of the most desperate cards pulled. Blatantly falsifying information.
  
  thanks mark for giving two examples so early in the morning. At this rate you might go through the whole deck today.
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can see that you enjoy the process of the fight. (You stir the pot well enough) ...
  
  However, there is a minor logical flaw in this statement (granted it's an off handed comment and not a logical argument...)
  
  Taking it out of the God/Invisible Superbeing/Flying Spaghetti Monster realm...
  
  In my younger days I had a very low opinion of Nelson Mandela. Why? Three reasons. 1) What his enemies said about him. 2) What is followers did in his name that he didn't authorize. 3) My own lack of understanding of the intricacies of the situation.
  
  When Nelson Mandela came to power, he proved to be, in my opinion a TRUE statesman. He put the good of ALL the people in his country above his need for personal revenge and retribution. He was nothing like his enemies said. And he was nothing like his followers acted.
  
  The point is that the reality of who Nelson Mandela is was not at all related either to his enemies or his followers.
  
  And I had to see Nelson Mandela for who he really was to discover where I was wrong. Everything his followers did to dissuade me from my well founded opinions simply convinced me I was more right.
  
  And if the existence of wine and single barrel jack isn't proof enough ... I know I won't prove anything to you!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I had the same opinion about Karl Marx. He had a romantic idea that was born out of a hate and distaste of an idea, so no matter how noble the intent, the motivation exploded as today's communism. Karl Marx's idea that Man can change history (as opposed to studying it and building on it) is a tantalizing offer and it does stand on a universal truth, hence it resounds. But communism as a an idea forced upon people instead of an something that one does out of volition is just as oppressive as the industrialization he detests.
  
  Same sound different letter.
  
  I do have an understanding about what Mark said. Sometimes, its funny watching children fight over who gets to be six first. It's ridiculous, yah? But they will all get to be six at some point, but some will always get to the next age ahead of the rest. And when they're older, the ones who were victorious for being first to get older will be the ones moaning over it.
  
  My point is, atheism just like theism are clothes we wear to ward off our personal fears about ourselves, like clothes ward off rain or wind or mud. Some wear pink, some wear black. But everyone is seeking to penetrate the truth, seeking to bring some good into their lives and others. Some will be more effective than others, some will just get the opposite of what they want because they don't understand it.
  
  The Name Jesus is a good starting point. Because Jesus is a name. A name from which we project many things that are within us and sometimes do not recognize.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Well - how about I put it this way:
  
  There is no evidence of an invisible super being (single barrel aside - which is a persuasive argument).
  
  The only "evidence" I have is a bunch of people claiming there is one.
  
  They have and continue to spend an awful lot of time proclaiming that this super being loves us - and have spent the last 2000 years killing each other and all sorts of other infamnias to prove this love.
  
  Ergo...........
  
  Seriously - I have made inquiries and He is not in.
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A buddy of mine wore a shirt to church. It said, "Beer is proof that God exists and He loves us." - Ben Franklin
  
  A very nice church lady asked him if he thought that was an appropriate shirt to wear at church.
  
  He asked, "Don't you respect Ben Franklin, one of our founding fathers?" ...
  
  "Uh, Yes"
  
  "Are you saying God doesn't exist? or that He doesn't love us?"
  
  "Um no, that's not it!"
  
  "So, it must be the beer. You know beer has about the same alcohol content as wine. Jesus turned water into wine. Is there a problem with the beer?"
  
  "Um, um, ... " Then she walked away.
  
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  American beer?
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure ... Ben Franklin did spend a lot of time in Europe. I understand that 18th century American beer was a lot different than today's. My time machine is on the fritz again, so I can't check it out right now.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah - well that might make more sense. Bud light is proof positive that there is not a god and He hates us.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  it seems your argument is, because people are evil, Gd does not exist. so the perspective is people are evil? Is that the thesis?
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think it's that Bud Light is evil ... Just in case, though, I'm not taking any chances, I've never tried it.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  reality is a construct of the observer, that's all I'm saying. It's a scientific fact.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So - if a man expresses an opinion in the woods where there is no woman to correct him.......
  
  Is he still wrong?
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Every woman I've met, answers that question, "Yes" ... so ...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So - reality is not the construct of the observer.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Funny! You can argue it that way or you could look at it this way.
  
  A fly would see you differently than say your ex-wife. To the fly, you're a giant with many heads that always smells like food so it wants to land on you all the time . To your ex-wife, you're the guy who used to sleep beside her smelling like a mixture of garlic and anchovies, so she divorced you.
  
  (this is not actually you, it's an example)
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My ex wife saw me as a huge pile of cash to be exploited. In reality, I didn't have that much ... but she saw it that way.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Guys who are good at storing money always attract women who will spend them....next time you go on a date, use poetry.
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There once was a man from Mobile
  Who spent too much on a meal
  He said to his date
  The restaurant is great!
  She just saw something to steal.
  
  You mean like that? I wrote it myself!!!
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  For those of you who don't live on the Gulf coast ..
  
  Mobile is not pronounced MO-bull
  it is pronounced Mo-BEEL
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i thought it was pronounced : Mo Bile? jeje.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  or
  Oh I ain't got a barrel of money
  maybe I'm ragged and funny
  but we'll travel along
  singing our song, side by side.
  
  then, go the gym get washboard abs, get some hair,wear tight pants and learn how to salsa and then date slightly older rich divorcees.
  you'll save money and then she'll even support you.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ok back to Jesus.
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, of course, all I have to do is completely alter who I am so she'll love me for me! Got it!!!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Lol, just saying. You start with money, you end with no money.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Neither of which affect reality reality as opposed to perceived reality. And neither of which affect my perceived reality.
  
  I squished the fly and do not have any ex wives. Quite a lot of ex girlfriends, but that is a whole different story and several different perceived realities, none of which changes the fact that is doesn't get much better than this.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  wha? you perceive your reality from your senses right? Your senses send the message to your brain and then your brain decodes this based on your understanding of it, and then that's what you perceive as reality.
  
  You probably haven't gone to Pat Pong in Bangkok. To the new tourists, the girls dancing in clubs there are hot eager asian women. To us who've lived there, the reality is they are Katoys, men who got altered.
  
  So to the poor straight american who got kissed by a Katoy, the reality is a hot dancing asian chick gave him a long passionate kiss. To us by standers, the guy just got a brokeback mountain moment.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My perception of reality has no bearing on actual reality.
  
  No matter how hard the Amerikan tourist kisses the Katoy - he will still be a Katoy.
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And when he discovers the reality, he will probably be grossed out and humiliated, too.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Got caught by a ladyboy in Germany many moons ago.....
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  true, but then perhaps it will remain as dreamy till the day he dies.
  
  Just like other constructs:
  
  Jesus is the son of G-d
  All men are evil and there is no god.
  In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth
  Ra, Harmakhis, the Great God in his boat.
  Parusa can only see by means of the mind.
  Or Jesus is (what did marine say?)...
  Or Deborah is Hebrew but not those who say G-d or IHVH (like for instance the the Rebbe Lubavitcher in his published book Tree of Life, or published author Rabbi Tzvi Freeman, or Rabbi Cohen of the Noahide who deals with the white house for the Noahide in laws. NO...they are not Hebrew, just Deborah. Because they would never ever use IHVH, they would not do that, they prefer to say Hashem) (oh and yeah I know you're reading this)
  
  The name Jesus is not Jesus but Yeshua/Yahshua.
  
  Constructs.
  
  In our exchange of constructs we grow in ours. If you reject a construct, you are not expanding your reality but limiting it so you can protect what you already comprehend. But if you regard another person's construct, add it to your own, using logic and your insight to ascertain which part of the construct to discard and to retain, then your construct grows. You become more aware.
  
  On the other hand....constant rejection of logic and facts to protect a construct that feels comfortable only limits your construct and actually limits you from growing as a consciousness.
  
  So the name Jesus, is a construct. Deborah has a construct based on her being Hebrew. Brenda has a construct based on the inspiration that she experienced. Mark has a construct based on his-errr--ideas. James has a construct based on his studies. I have a construct based on mine. And we're all meeting here, assembling our constructs, in order to expand our awareness.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  None of which change reality.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Of course not. Because all human perception of reality is limited to that stasis of consciousness. We have had this converse before, no? Maybe it was someone else...if so, my bad.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not Hebrew.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you're jewish. same-o.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not Jewish/Hebrew.
  Both my mom and dad's great, great grandparents came from England.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, then how could you be married to a Rabbi? Are you not Jewish too now?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Ceci!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi James! I was in Central Park today. The weather was great!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am not Jewish per se but my ancestors are Gabay. the Gabays guide readers on the correct phonetic reading of the Torah, which is interesting because I was naturally drawn to the phonics of Hebrew. My ancestors' name are that of Levites, Shepardic Jews from Catalan driven to exile in the then colony of Spain. My DNA source on the maternal side is also proven to have Semetic origins. But I am many things and came from many places. We are who we choose to be now.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not Jewish/Hebrew.
  Both my mom and dad's great, great grandparents came from England.
  I'm a white American female..with light brown hair that I streak mostly blond and I have brown eyes...light skin that tans dark.
  I'm about 5 ft 4..and slim....I am older then I look..I look younger through my genes and I have never smoked or consumed alcohol...except 2 glasses of champagne once a year at New years.
  I take a sip of kosher wine at communion.
  I have never done drugs. I have never worn base makeup because it causes acne, large pores, blackheads and wrinkles....I eat right and exercise.
  
  Anything else you need to know???
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, why with all the positive traits are you so insecure? You are so fragile people are questioning if you are emotionally stable. I'm sure you are not as fragile as you seem. You probably are very sheltered by your parents who treated you like a princess and it was hard for you to assert your adulthood because they wanted to protect you so much. Your husband is probably a knight in shining armor type, very nurturing and calm. You have probably never been in the company of men engaged in sports, never been a group of males as their buddy, usually surrounded by adults who always want you to be nice and say nice things. Being patronized so much by the adults in your family who question your every choice your deepest desire is to become finally an authority who is never questioned, yes?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  and if I'm not mistaken, the youngest in the family of all girls.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  *ouch*
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ? why ouch?
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "ouch" because it seems you've gone out of your way to voice a lot of assumptions about a person in a questionable way.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I "know" and I "sense" and "ouch" as defined to Cecil isn't the ouch you meant.
  
  It was more of a gleeful ouch..please don't deny this..better yet..don't reply.
  
  Please know that these people can't admonish me.
  
  These people accuse me of things as they point their fingers, yet if they looked closer, they would see, it is a mirror they are looking into and seeing only themselves.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  well, i do it for a reason.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Must you?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  observe how she changed
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Or, she was busy and had to go to work? Why don't you speak directly to her, not around her? Why do you discuss her with me? Or others?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Because this her forum. She opened this topic. I don't do that outside of this forum.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Still, speaking "around" her just because she opened the thread isn't exactly respectful, is it?
  
  I have had my own disagreements here but have not deliberately attempted to goad or "bait" anyone here as it appears others are doing.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you are a good person mythbuster, and I should take that as good advice, see you in another forum
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  .
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh...have you changed your ways, then, since you baited me in a thread I posted?
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't bait you, Ms. Durham - I tried to have a discussion with you and you took offense. I realized I could never get a point across to you, so I stopped trying to.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Every single thing you have stated about me is so incorrect, I am sitting here laughing.
  
  In another post, you accused me of feeling rage. If I felt even a little rage..mountains would come crumbling down. ..
  
  You have this picture of me in your mind of being frail, fragile and helpless. Wow...if you only knew.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  well, its the best way I can picture you, because the alternative would be as you put it quite the opposite.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You guys are too obvious! Trying to get Deborah ?
  
  What a joke !
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Tantrum.
  
  Yes, she thinks I am frail,fragile and helpless.....right...
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't get involved with in this kind of 'fight'. They're trying to make you banned.
  They're so obvious that it's a laugh. You just go posting your stuff. If one of these guys comes to stir, just don't pay attention.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So, I shouldn't turn them into the frogs they wish to be.?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just let them be. They'll get tired of going after you and will go and find a new victim
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think like this, I don't even know how to get anyone banned. I like Deborah, really. I just think she's just over-reacting to the things I say. Maybe I should change my language.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  NO you should stop speaking to me and about me period...
  I'm not interested in your opinion of me.
  I am not interested in your take on the Kabbalah or anything else.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, I will talk around you with great care. It was a good topic.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  When 3 or 4 different hubbers come together after you, you know it's a hoax !
  This kind of thing always makes me laugh. ! Poor people !!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You know, I didn't even think about this...teaming up on me.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  They do it all the time. I see it everyday. they did it to me once.But not anymore. I made it clear I know what they're about. LOL
  There are about 2,3 different of groups of hubbers that do this.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Tantrum...Have a great day.
  
  I have a get to work late day. I don't start till 9 am.
  A patient canceled their own surgery at the last minute.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh I see. I assure you, James, me and Mythbuster we here purely to chat about myth, religion and philosophy. We are here to explore what we know and find people who have other perspectives. We are on research mode for our work and forums are a good way to get to the attitudes of people. Deborah has good topics and knowledgeable. But you almost cannot get into a discussion with her because she gets angry with disagreement or if you offer a contrary source. But how do you get a discussion to grow if you just agree all the time?
  
  So I'm still trying to get a discussion from her and hopefully she'll respond to my questions about the discussion soon.
  
  I asked her what her take on "CONSTRUCTS are and she ignored it. preferring to engage in the personal discussions. So by taking her route of interest, I get some level of discussion like her saying that:
  
  "Magick is not evil, the use of Kabbalah for this purpose is okay if you're not hurting anyone". A topic grew out of that. See, that's a piece of knowledge, worthy of discussion.
  
  My take on that as in the case of invoking a name such as YAHSHUA is that it is a distraction from the intent of the Tree of Life which the Jesus archetype stands for.
  
  Jesus himself was called "a son of god" which is a term they use for sorcerer and he was tried in the court sentenced to get whipped because of this. But he is not a sorcerer, he was a seeker of truth, of essence.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please do not speak for me... I have already engaged in my own conversations with Deborah Sexton - with some problems, I might add - but I will sort those out myself, if it is possible and I would rather you not speak as if you know how I feel because it is obvious you do not.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am just saying you're not evil person teaming up with me to get her banned, mythbuster. We don't really have an agreement to do that right?
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I would not make such an agreement - that is correct.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We're not, I'm not teaming up against you. I want to discuss Kabbalah with you, not a lot of people have your level of differing perspective from mine. If you would just stay on topic and have a little gut for my countering opinion.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are fragile. Fragility is when you bruise easily. Come now Deborah, no one is after you. We all want to talk to you and share what we know, so you can give your take on things. But because you've been reacting angry, you create a chain of reactions that are angry as well. I am trying to reach the side of you that is logical, because its there.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yet you show no logic at all.
  Even making Kabbalah duality instead of unity..that says so much..
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Tantrum,
  
  Deborah is a magician. I am not. I am a philosopher. A magician will look at the philosopher stone and find uses like turning anything into gold or finding a formula for immortality. A philosopher would throw it away and say, philosophy turns the mundane into gold and that's what makes a person immortal.
  
  I am not picking on her. I am reaching out to her. Because she needs to see that we are not enemies.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your definition of "CONSTRUCTS" is so far off
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's a good start of a discussion. Why is that? How would you counter that argument? My opinion comes from very recent discussions we had (TED conferences) with Richard Dawkins but also was discussed years ago by physicists in discussion with a famous Spanish Kabbalist.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  so who is judging reality correctly when we all have mind maps and constructs? The truth is if you're human, your reality is based on you construct.
  
  TO the american guy, he went to bangkok and kissed a woman. that is his reality. To me and my husband, that is a man who seriously need to travel more often to Bangkok.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am not trying to judge reality "correctly" - it is what it is. I am aware that my perception of reality does not necessarily conform to actual reality and is colored by the filter which I view it through. I am also aware that I do not observe the bulk of reality and therefore it is not filtered through me. I am not that important.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  there is no god because men are evil is your construct. don't you think you need to expand the construct and challenge it? see if you find that men are not evil "therefore there is no god" will still follow the logic.
  
  It is just playing on your logic as you stated it. I know you probably have more on your mind regarding the matter...But just push it a little further outwards to further my understanding of your certainty, if you will indulge me.
  
  If men are not evil, but are in fact good, and evil only because they do not understand our construct or their construct is very limited, then will that mean that there is a god? and the name of Jesus could possibly bring good to the people who believe in it?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  Please do not put words into my mouth. I never said that.
  
  Thanks.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  well, i'm lazy to do the deborah maneuver and copy paste everything. but i'm pretty certain that the thesis is, religion is bad because religious people did bad things...and the wars, the wars surrounding religion. i said so is your belief people are evil so there is no god and you said sometimes a cigar is a cigar. maybe you didn't say it. maybe i just thought you did. just the same, my point is where is the there is no god coming from other than the sins of man and religion.
  
  because underneath larger concepts is a personal one. (and if i may press the horn to say excuse me in advance) could the theme 'there is no god because religious people are assholes" a more personal experience, like for instance parents more than an actual global thing?
  
  it usually is a more inner thing, that is the source of the construct.
  
  Could the religious parent construct (I'm assuming ofcourse, it could also be exgirlfriends or mean teachers) be limiting your appreciation and understanding of what other people find joy in?
  
  Like Brenda's Jesus, Deborah's idea of herself as a whatever, Like James' Unified nongod/God, like my archetypal G-d,
  are they invalid because it does not fit the believers are dodos and do stupid things like say "I love Jesus" construct.?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  None of the above. Too many assumptions on your part.
  
  Sorry - no cigar.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  at least I know what beliefs are not and that makes it more interesting.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I copy and paste everything? You need to stop saying things that are untrue. Don't say anything about me again. These are all personal attacks and against the rules. Drop using my name. You stated you are a Kabbalist in your hubs, but I find this to be untrue. A true Kabbalist wouldn't make petty remarks.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You wrote this: "A true Kabbalist wouldn't make petty remarks." Yeah, you definitely did. But that is what you do..., you live your life a lie, and are completely ambiguous to your incredibly dysfunctional social behavior.
  
  Furthermore, are you aware of the term HYPOCRISY? Because your hypocrisy knows no bounds. The fact that you actually wrote, "A true Kabbalist wouldn't make petty remarks." comment, is the most ridiculous thing I have ever witness. Why? Because it came from YOU. "Petty remarks?" You are the Queen of petty remarks. Better yet, YOU would be the perfect "poster child," for the Association of Petty Remarks.
  
  Terrible. And it didn't stop there. NO! Your hypocrisy was then followed by more childish behavior, amongst an undertone of an Idle threat yet again. Incredible.
  
  You know what Debbie Dearest, I've given this some thought just now, and I have to admit that I feel sorry for you. Sorry- might not even be a strong enough word. Pity..., yeah that will do.
  
  I pity you for your low self esteem, and childish mindset. It must be exhausting trying to keep up with the rest of us. I cannot even begin to imagine how hard it must be for you. You know my brother had terrible, social behavioral problems. But even he........, eventually grew out of it. Wow- sad. Really, really, sad.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Adding you to my hero list, IntimatEvolution. There's only one other person on that list. Oh wait - that's you.
  
  #1.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, so she is saying at least some of what you want to say to me, but you refrained yourself? Good idea.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, that's right, Ms. Sexton - I'm in agreement with much of the assessment IntimatEvolution outlined - where behaviors are concerned.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm Deborah not Ms. Sexton. In Reality my last name is Hebrew since I am married to a Hebrew.
  
  I'm sorry, do you think your opinion of me means anything?
  I won't lose even a wink of sleep.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You think I'm offering my opinion of you as a whole? I've tried to be fairly consistent about remarks concerning behaviors, not your person as a whole. I refer to you as Ms. Sexton because in the course of following material in the threads, you've said your name is Deborah but your last name, Sexton, is attached as a safe handle to keep your identity secure. Therefore, I post to the persona you're exuding in the forums - which, I believe, is probably slightly different than your true self or is just a representation of part of you.
  
  Also, in my background, use of first name is reserved for situations whereby people are friendly with each other and, frankly, it's very apparent that you and I aren't exactly fine chums in here. The use of a title at all ("Ms.") is meant to convey at least a measure of respect in addressing you, while - according to context and particularly where we are disagreeing, use of your first name in argument with you is, in my culture and from my background - it's actually a sign of intense and outward, visible disrespect.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you had come here to discuss the topic instead of to point out what you deem as my "Character flaws" things wouldn't be so bad.
  
  I have always used the pen name Deborah Sexton because it is associated with my work.
  
  Your pen name is Mythbuster and you haven't stated you want to be called anything else. However I have. You calling me Ms. Sexton after I asked you not to, does not show respect as you have indicated.
  
  Please do not continue telling me what you think is "wrong" with me.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've never stated what I think is wrong with you, Deborah Sexton. I've tried to be careful in pointing out behaviors, bad arguments.
  
  Anywhere I've mentioned character things, I've made a 'suggestion,' that you might be feeling a certain way, thus responding in a certain way (again, about the behaviors, not your personal character).
  
  If I've slipped up a time or two, well, would it not be excusable just one or two times, considering I've attempted to converse reasonably with you, for the most part...while receiving orders and flack back from you at every turn.
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  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "If you had come here to discuss the topic instead of to point out what you deem as my "Character flaws" things wouldn't be so bad."
  
  Things wouldn't be so bad, Deborah?
  
  I don't feel responsible in any way for your bad behavior. I didn't make you behave or respond badly. In fact, I attempted to clarify and qualify my statements as best as possible so that it was your behavior and 'tone' of posting I commented on, not your overall character, not your religious views, or anything in your personal life.
  
  At first, the only thing which might be considered the least bit personal was that I qualified a "suggestion" that you might be feeling "reactive" to posts...but I see now that every post you make is well thought out and perfectly rational, sound and, Deborah, quite obviously within the bounds of every human show of respect to every individual you engage in discussion with.
  
  My mistake...certainly I was mistaken and do apologize for assuming that you might have human reactions in the threads when controversial, questionable items are posted in a thread you started. I will not make these mistakes again.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I do not call myself a Kabbalist. (Rabbi Cohen would laugh out loud) A student of the Kabbalah is what I always say because you cannot call a rocket enthusiast a rocket scientist. A Kabbalist would be the Rebbe and the Arizal.
  
  What i meant was, when you want to refer back to statements a person you're bantering with you copy paste everything they say. I was lazy to do that. There is nothing wrong that. Nothing wrong at all.
  
  We didn't hijack anything, you just stop talking. You said you closed it, but people still want to talk about it. You should see this as a compliment.
  
  But you're acting really I don't know...fragile. I suppose you really are used to a lot of praise and positive feedback that you can't handle war of words or discourses. It's really really not about you, you know.
  
  I am using you as an example because you have etched your unusual overreaction into this thread that it became like a running joke. You react to EVERYBODY, even those who are actually not hostile towards you.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Copy and paste? I hit reply so you weren't speaking of copy paste.
  
  Also hijacking is what has happened here...I was going to stop posting here because of the hijecking that took place..
  
  If you were here about the topic..it's what you would be commenting on, but it's not. You have averted it to your aganda.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're a student? Yes some Kabbalist will teach that but not in all Kabbalah systems.
  
  If you are a student? how can you be teaching?
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly, reality is what it is, despite our perceptions or our constructs, which have nothing to do with reality but are more a reference for our purposes.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i agree, ( though i am concerned with your name and picture )
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I must say, this is hilarious.
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  Obscure Divineposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm, I'm definitely religious about drinking beer. Damn, I'm thirsty right now...
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  the correct number will be within 6000 years.
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, it's not; it is much longer than that!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  agree...i digress.
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  Obscurely Diverseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, you just showed up Kindergarten class with 3rd grade knowledge; woot-woot!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  well i wasn't talking about just Hebrew, as hebrew got the letters from egyptian phonics. all human phonetic sounds emanates from 10 sounds.
  
  a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
  
  a e h - force-like
  
  b p f v - expression
  
  c k q ch x g - recieving
  
  i j y - deliberate action
  
  m n w - flow
  
  r - motor
  
  o u - space
  
  s sh st z - lowest realm
  
  d t - end (as in DOT)
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  if you just study hebrew you wouldn't understand hebrew as a language completely
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Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago
Dear me. What a short memory we have. The very first day you arrived and I warned you that cutting and pasting great swathes of copied content from another website would get you banned. Next thing I know you are accusing me of stealing work from other people and telling me your husband will "chastise me" when you come to Europe.

But - you accuse me of lying about living in France, so that should be fun finding me.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh I could kiss you. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXxxxx.
  
  Funny, funny, funny stuff. I'm sure you noticed there is no comment yet.
  
  Funny, funny stuff.
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I remember the first time I was responsible for getting mark banned. 14 days worth of nasty-grams in my email. Not worth it really but he is true to himself.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well at least he is "true."
  
  He doesn't lie about himself.
  He doesn't copy and paste other peoples work into his hubs, and calls them his own.
  He doesn't change his positioning for anyone.
  He doesn't make nasty THREATS to hurt or harm people.
  He doesn't make idle THREATS at all.
  He doesn't pretend to know everything.
  He always offers up reasons to his decisions.
  He always ask fair and reasonable questions.
  He is reasonable when confronting his opposition. He never expects more than what he gives.
  
  Yeah sooner, I'm damn proud to associate and call myself a fan, of someone with that kind of intelligence and moral character. I have a very hard time believing that you were harassed by Mark. Mark and I have had our BIG differences, and he never once harassed me.
  
  Furthermore, if you were to tell me that my life depended upon the intelligence of either Debbie dearest or Mark Knowles, I'll take Mark Knowles.
  
  For one thing is certain, even if he didn't know the answer to my life saving question, at least I would honestly know where I stood. That is call Integrity, and Miss Hatefulness, doesn't have an ounce of it.
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Intimate
  1. He doesn't lie about himself.
  - thats noble
  2. He doesn't copy and paste other peoples work into his hubs, and calls them his own.
  - again good
  3. He doesn't change his positioning for anyone.
  - even when he knows he is wrong. I agree
  4. He doesn't make nasty THREATS to hurt or harm people.
  - You should have seen him in the thread I started about Dawkins calling his troops to arms. I swear he polished his guns
  5. He doesn't make idle THREATS at all.
  - Actually he is unable to hold his temper and it reminds my of the chunky kid who takes his ball home when he doesn't get his way.
  6. He doesn't pretend to know everything.
  - are we talking about the same person?
  7. He always offers up reasons to his decisions.
  - never seen that once. Really
  8. He always ask fair and reasonable questions.
  - "Spagetti headed monster in the sky" questions. Really?
  9. He is reasonable when confronting his opposition.
  - That comment alone is why I don't do drugs.
  10. He never expects more than what he gives.
  - nobody could dish out that much poop. he wins.
  
  I am glad you like him. I do too. I just see more clearly. As far as him saving your life speach, he is a net buddy. Don't get toooooooooooo deeeeeeeeeeeep.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh dear me.
  
  I thought bearing false witness was a sin punishable by eternal torment. Still, as I always say - you guys do not actually believe do you? Lying for jeebus again.
  
  The only honest thing about this statement is that you were responsible for getting me banned.
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TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years ago
It's true...I think Mark apologized for calling me "sweetie pie" once, after we agreed not to call each other names anymore.

It has recently come to my attention, Mark, that we are both celebrating around 6 months of non-smoking. Congratulations!!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Congratulations back, 6 months over on the 15th.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mine on the 16th! How cool. Keep up the good work!
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Brenda Durhamposted 15 years ago
I read one of your hubs. Very interesting.
But most projected-scientific knowledge is lacking in wisdom about the very thing it tries to explain.
You left out Faith. Where does your faith reside; do you have faith as it's called?
You don't have to answer! Your civility toward me here and your hub just caught my interest.....
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Faith is a special topic that deserves a hub on its own. Faith as used then is very different from how we use it now. Faith as in "If you have faith as big as a mustard seed" is speaking of Certainty of the essence of what you know. Faith now is more, if you don't have evidence you have to believe anyway. Certainty is not a belief, it is a knowledge and trust that what you see and feel is valid. hence the mustard seed,it is so small, yet it contains a tree.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  the difference is so minute but the implication is great, like the gps saying "turn left" or "exit here". sometimes a 10 degree turn leads into a totally different spot in your brain (or your language, your soul mind)
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
The best part, he acted like he didn't get banned. He told all his cronies that he was on vacation. haha. what a miserable vacation- anxiously waiting to get unbanned. sign me up.
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
Jesus is just a faith hustler.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Uh-oh.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You interjected that into a very intersting conversation that was taking place...
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
my final answer is ANY name that invokes or evokes entity of G/god is idolatry and breaks every commandment -the first ten and the new one. Why? because there is no such thing as G/god.

The One who is all things is not a god. get it?
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey 21! I was just leaving, but when i saw this I had to ask you a ques b for I went. You don't believe in God? I thought you did. Not that it matters, but some of your posts indicated that you did or that you do. What gives?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi love.
  I believe in "Creator" -which is all things. Not a selected/selective human consciousness/consideration of a deity (G/god). Which is why, it seems, I have trouble explaining it to people. The term G/god is translated B/baal from many human languages/communications.
  
  He is everything -the entire universe came from His mouth- is/are His words. Imagine that. From ultra subatomic particles to infinite measures of galaxies; every nook n cranny is Creator.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Despite my best efforts not to use the term G/god, I sometimes do.
  Religion et al, get caught up in titleship and ritual, which bugs the buggers out of me. Just because He did certain events through a certain method, others assume a totality by that method/system.
  
  Am I making sense.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I think I am getting what your saying particularly when my book title is Creator's Method, which is precisely about that. except i'm not sure if you mean exactly what you mean. Or my meaning is getting confused with what i think you mean.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I completely understand.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  interesting take
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avannahposted 15 years ago
i love jesus
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's nice.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  well in that case, jesus loves you
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
bingo.
all elements of consciousness are structures of thought/perception, which 'enlighten' aka induce awareness of those elements.

The Ism itself.
In the Ism, there is and is not G/god.
The Ism is our own limitation, slaves to consciousness, reflected by our constant need of that consciousness -in any form, relationary parallel- in an attempt to reason/explain/accept/reject/stimulate/satisfy -ad infinitum- that parallel.

Outside the Ism, is Life.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I love that word..., ism.
  
  Hi 21!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Howdy!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi 21,
  
  are you saying that if we let go of constructs, reality will find us?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  even better, we become consumed by reality, purity.
  
  these constructs aka the Ism are two archetypes of consciousness:
  
  one of life alone; one of sin/death.
  this was the adamic inception.
  
  ironically, it is now a good thing he has them both, so neither consciousness can limit him. This is what I see as the 'salvation factor'. The settling of two minds within the human. Resetting -if you will- the machine, the tool, the absorber and reconnecting the projective (spirit) & reflective (body) light.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Philo knows this well, except sometimes we dilute it into Duality between romanticism/sensation v. classicism/reason.
  
  My argument is that the collection of active consciousness is the new age philo -called Quality, which seems to comfort the two sides and attempt to 'balance the equation'. But even united, they lack purity.
  
  {ps, this is all in my new book: Quantus Philo, a critique of free will }
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  yes i see this,I see what you mean, but neuroscience overlapping it.
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  Obscure Divineposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Cecilia: I'd say you should "think" less and "feel" more. From there, your thoughts (without thinking) can flow in a seamless fashion that leads closer to a state of universal awareness - without all of the dependent book quotes & research that you seem to have a fetish for. Then again, it's not fair for me to say, since I've tapped into the unknown via a matrix grid of insanity, a while back. ...Still recovering from interstellar shock, ya know. I think you could over-analyze a cheese sandwich, at times. Ha-ha!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Deleted
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Obscure Divineposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm glad I triggered a better response.
  You're assuming again. The projection/reflection concepts can be applied to nearly everything - no big woop, there.
  You need a beer!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  yikes its there....grrrrr...need to stop posting things at 3 am in the morning.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  as you probably know, i do not drink alcohol. and ofcourse there's no big woop. a rat can have transcendental visions.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you need chamomile tea...so you'll sleep and I can delete my 3 am morning posts before you read them...darnit I can't delete the darn dream sequence post.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is your problem right there.
  
  Prolly time for bed?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  my problem is i need to cut paper for my daughter's birthday party tomorrow, and here I am bothering myself with forum banter!
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  Obscure Divineposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's not coffee, dear.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  geez you're awake. what are you a zombie. I just deleted three posts because i thought it was too corny, now i think you read them.darnit
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  Obscure Divineposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I liked them and wished you would have not deleted 'em. Oh well...
  I'm usually sleep deprived 5 days out of 7, and I was just checking in at half-time. I'll be back in the morning, incase you want to post some more cool sh*t.
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
i draw the picture from both sides to show that neither of the Ism can assume totality over the other -no titleship. They were originally the same, then divided, now reunited.

Quantum physics and spirituality align to prove this point.
The roof on the house, being Quality, can now limit the deluge and sort of dry out the soggy siblings while 'protecting' them from the ever constant light shining. No doubt it is a beautiful house, a marriage to envy any other. But in the end, its still just a house and everything outside of it is real, more real than any illusion in it.
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  Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, what the believer will stoop to support a belief system, amazing!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ...and what a supposed non-believer will do to justify their sarcasm. The wheels on the bus go round and round...
  
  um, btw, what belief system are you mentioning?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  funny how the term "believer" of atheists is used in the same derogatory way as a christian fundamentalist's "nonbeliever".
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Twenty One Daysposted 15 years ago
Is that an acceptable, over-the-top level of insecure narcissism, justified by your finger pointing and pouting about what toys belong to who? Really.

Yes, it is all about you. All of us are in kahoots, silently, in the most putrid, deviant shadows of digital literature just to form a Forum Jihad against only you.

Hub Pages ou akbar!!!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's hijacking and personal attack.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Then perhaps either go back to the topic you started, report all the people who did this evil thing to you or let it go. Apparently, no one is taking it personal apart from you. So by pushing the issue, you are presenting the notion of bait/switch in the hope to have those people banned, etc. which ultimately does you no justice.
  
  just a thought.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Obviously, you're taking it personally.
  
  See way back when you first attacked Joel and I took up for him, you have been following me from thread to thread..You've been stating how wrong I am. Each time I have posted something..there you are saying just the opposite.
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mythbusterposted 15 years ago
Back to the original topic:

"Many people think that we are just trying to establish another cult, but let us examine the facts."

Before the facts on the topic of Jesus and name, does anyone have the context of this time frame? Which people have felt this cultish thing was/is developed? Was this idea processed in ancient times or it is a modern invention? During the Hellenization period, or what?
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