Christians Let's Debunk the Horus Hoax and Tell The World About Jesus

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   glendoncabaposted 15 years ago

   Atheists are looking for evidence to attack the story of Jesus and have been all over the internet saying that Christians stole the myth of Horus.
   
   Here is a good article which debunks the lie.  Read it and comment:
   
   http://www.pleaseconvinceme.com/index/I … Horus_Myth

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      Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I started a thread about something like this too. I wanted to continue on the subject, but the thread got hijacked.
      Here is the link to the thread. You might want to read it (At least my first post).
      http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/39650#post918309

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         Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         It is amazing how so many people can come to the same conclusions for entirely different reasons.
            Looking at things from totally different prospectives and coming to the same conclusions.

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            Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            No one is coming to any conclusions are they? Mrs Sexton is merely regurgitating the same things we all read as children and the religionist who started this thread is upset that there are people who don't believe in Jesus and one of the reasons they don't is that the myth was "borrowed" from previous religions.
            
            "Primates often have trouble imagining a universe not run by an angry alpha male."

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               Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I look it kinda like this
                 Many decades ago a Raccoon came out of the woods and to my great great grandfathers barn. It did what raccoons do!
               
                  Last week a Raccoon came out of the woods and got into my workshop.It did what raccoons do!
                  
                 When I told this story to my brother, he did not believe me. He thought that I was just borrowing the story from my grandpa.
                  I know that it wasn't the same raccoon! But it may have been related!

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               Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Obviously, you didn't read my thread. No one learned that as children
               
               Try reading something before commenting.

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               Deborah Sextonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               None of that is what I believe.
               
               Who is the primate...........

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Aww - I never said you believed that. You should try reading things before attacking other people.
                  
                  Yes - we are both primates - whether you deny evolution or not - you are still a primate. Sorry.

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         glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Just when we have debunked the Horus thesis, you have to come along with the name game.  But worthy of attention.
         
         The Greek grammar has dative locative and instrumental cases for looking at what it means to be in the name of Jesus.
         
         Another hot potato issue in Christendom.  We can talk about it some more.

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      SpanStarposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Believers do not worry over things men do for this world will not last and in the end only one truth will be relevent.  There only one real concern you don't won't to be wrong on judgement day because that mistake will live with us forever.  People didn't believe Jesus when he came to show us the way and so it's not surprising they still don't believe.  My recommendation is to continue in your faith and speak to those who have ears to hear because I think people believe you can choose between Heaven and Hell but the reality is mankind is on a fast track to Hell and faith in Jesus is the only tick off this train.  If one doesn't get that ticket the choice is made for them.

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      getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      So can you document Jesus' existence from other sources of his time, other than the bible?  If so, please send me the link, or else it is highly possible Jesus never existed.
      
      Right now, I would just as soon believe in Horus as I would Jesus.

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      Will Bensonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks Jerami.
      
      So as not to hijack the thread, here's the OP:
      
      Atheists are looking for evidence to attack the story of Jesus and have been all over the internet saying that Christians stole the myth of Horus.
      
      Here is a good article which debunks the lie.  Read it and comment:
      
      http://www.pleaseconvinceme.com/index/I … Horus_Myth

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         Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I do not know what to think about the Horus=Myth.
         And I realy do not care.
           I just know of those miracles that I have seen and experienced. I know that there have been interviening power/entity that I have been exposed to.
         
         I can only suppose that this was the God that the OT speaks of.  Wether you say that this is God or the devil, or whatever else that you want to call it/him; this is who/what seems to be wearing me like a pendent around his neck.
             It seems that life goes better when I say thanks to the God of Abraham.

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      Beelzedadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      But, the article doesn't debunk anything. It merely states this is true and that is false without providing a single source.

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         glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Dig deep and eventually you arrive at http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html
         
         
         Where you will find
         Links:
         Encyclopedia Mythica: Horus
         Egyptian Mythology: Horus
         The Eye Of Horus
         Horus: He Who Is Above
         Tektonics: Horus, Isis, Osiris
         Egyptian Book of the Dead

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   earnestshubposted 15 years ago

   OK lets debunk it. What are we gonna do with the rest of them?

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      glendoncabaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Check researchers who have debunked them all.
      
      Then turn to the True Light.  Not the 25th December idolatry.
      But to Creator.

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         pisean282311posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         now u may say it was coincidence but how can u reject something which was in psychic of ancient people much before christ..that doesnot make sense to me..humans exist since thousands of years..first temple found has been 11,500 years old and who knows we may find temple beyond that times too..so why do u want to call something hoax which might have been matter of faith for someone?...religion does exist since humans became curious species who could think...naturally questions like why are we here?..who brings sun every day ..what happens after one dies started coming in brain and religion came along with it...so came god like horux and many others in every nation where people started living...where civilizations came early , religion too came early in those nations...

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            mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I really like this response!

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               blake4dposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               MB now correct me if I am way outta line here. But all culture begins more or less at the point of 25000 to 6000BC, depending upon if you are a Jew, Hindu, Xstian, or a Martian. None of those calendars sync rightly with the planetary orbits, nor should they for they are based on a solar calendar year. Even the Mayan calendar had to compensate in the Long count for solar and lunar events that both allowed tracking of incraments of time in sections. My point is, aren't all God s Goddess and changing of such forms in history more related to the fine tuning and keeping track of the planetary ages, and not actually meant to be new Bird Headed gods or Goat Gods, or Three Piece zoot suit wearing Gods, hell the Maya worshiped two things we know for sure, the Plumed Serpent Quetzalcoatl, and the still reigning king of the Amazon Gods - Cocaine. They probably kept such strict clockwork of time to make sure the next yearly crop of dope was on time and potent. Thats what we use the atomic clocks for today, to syncronize our ICBN / MIRV luach codes and to calculate the proper timing for wetlands, farmlands, and attempting to predict the weather...why because Gods die when people do not have medicine, drugs, and stimulants. Show me any God that has lived more than a century in an environment that did not grow some kind of narcotic or caffine. Gods are first teacher plants in shamanism, then they become animals that we eat with the plants in sacrifice, then they become people who fish or hunt the animals we eat, then the super Gods with the really good dope connections (ie wine making, gold mining, and opiate producing...) they get arrested by armor plated cock blockers like the Romans, and if really lucky get put on a cross just before a mediterranian earthquake in three days. Man Jesus was lucky as a Kentucky derby Four leaf clover, you can't buy that kind of publicity today.
               
               But what again is the point, he died to mark a digital sync code in time,. He is a calendar reference, all gods, servants of gods, and probably the BIG Googlly God baby himself, are servants of the light. And maintainers of the sacred calendar. The Jews, the Himdus, the Vikings, the Occidental East, even the primitive Dogun and Aboriginals of today spend all day long doing mostly what,, counting the clicks of the dung beetle sun moving by. And counting the constellations, telling the ancient stories that are told at the time each comes along....
               
               In review, God has one prize possession or coveted one. The Big Idiot Golden Rolex of the Perfect Mind.
               
               So it is my guess that on 12/21/2012 that if any Mayan spaceships shiow up, there can only be one explanation. That they are scheculed to wind all the clocks...since we forgot how to read the owners manual for the Earth wheel.
               
               OMG WTF  -  WWJD
               Blake4d

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                  mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  I just came across this, blake4d but it's been sitting about 16h 'til I noticed it, so let me think on this for - oh, 'bout 12 more hours! lol
                  
                  Partly, it seems you're commenting on "fate" here and a lot on the purpose or motives of deities, while the response when I said I liked a post from very early in this thread was about my liking the inclusion of the concept of human perception in the world during ancient times...
                  
                  I'll think about this s'more tho'

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         earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Or a better idea, look at the 40000 year old Australian aboriginal culture. Oh that's right, we have to start compressing those carbon 14 dates! Wottalottarot!

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            Audreveaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Wottalottarot
            - is that a town in country Victoria?

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               earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               It could be. We have some beauties! ... and lots of white ants.

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   earnestshubposted 15 years ago

   Jesus!
   
   

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   Jeramiposted 15 years ago

   IF" God has been around forever why does anyone become surprised to find out that he has been attempting in MANY ways and MANY different times to explain himself to many different civilizations.
      We do not know how many civilizations might have come before us. For all that we know, whole civilizations may have transcended to a higher plane of consciousness.
      Some people think that this may have happened to Atlantis.   
   
     I know nothing;  That doesn't that it can't be.

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      skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Is god jobless ? why he needs to show himself if he created the universe. he can create many civilization and destroy them in seconds right ? is he sadistic or feeling lonely to show his own creation with help of civilization stories ? come on, how much free time he got to entertain his own species huh ? Just because civilizations assumed some creator doesn't mean there has to be one.

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      getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      Geez, God sure doesn't sound omniscient.
      
      Attempt, TRY, TRY! 
      
      Seems he would get it right the first time, lest he's not omniscient.

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   Jeramiposted 15 years ago

   skyfire wrote 
   Is god jobless ? why he needs to show himself if he created the universe. he can create many civilization and destroy them in seconds right
   ======================
   jerami  said
     I think that it is more of a desire than a need to show himself.
     If you planted a tree and it grew horizontaly instead of toward the sky; Would it be sadistic of you to cut it down and plant another?
     And if it did grow as it is suposed to; would it be sadistic to cut it down and harvest it when it reaches maturity?
    
      Does the shepherd visit his flock?
      And desire to be recognized when he does visit?

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      skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Lol,now you're trashing concept of prophets,religion with this reply.

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         Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         And how is that ???

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            skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Simple, first you're assuming god is not interfering with that prophet and religion concept just trashes. Then if you assume god interferes then free-will,prophet concept is again useless.

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               Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Jesus often spoke of "THE HARVEST" 
               I can see this kinda like any farmer that harvests timber.
               To harvest the trees that grow streight up toward the sun for they are good for lumber.  The crucked trees are taken to the paper mill.
               
                 They are all good for something.

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Makin' it up as you go along - same as every one else.

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                     Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Making it up as we go along.....
                        Same as everyone else.
                     
                        Yea I confess.    Everyone is doin it !
                       You, Me, the All of the Sock puppets, etc.
                        
                             EVERYBODY'S DOIN IT  !!!!

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                        Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        Yup - Makes a joke of the whole "I have the word of god" thing doesn't it? Which is why I am an atheist. I do not have an answer and am not daft enough to think I will find one in a book.
                        
                        But you go right ahead.

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                           Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           It seems as though EVERYONE is making Jokes.
                           And reading more into what everyone is saying than what they are saying.
                           
                              Before anyone decides wether the bible is true or not; they should first find out what it says.
                           
                              For centuries people have been teaching and believing multitudes of Personal interpretations of the written word.
                             These have been so heavily implanted in the subconcience mind that it is difficult to see past them.
                             I ocasionally profess that I believe something in particular to be true. BUT
                             I attempt to stick with  professing that ...
                           "This is what is actually written"  To analize what is actually written when misconceptions and personal interpretations are removed.
                           
                               Then and only then should we decide if we want to believe it.
                               When the uninterpreted version is seen; it is much more believable

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                              Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              Well - I resent the implication that I have never read it - and I am laughing that you think you have the correct interpretation when I have seen you interpret it instead of reading what it says.
                              
                              What is actually written? Oh - you mean actual days - not trying to "interpret the meaning" and when it says "two by two" you think there was a actual boat?
                              
                              It is not even slightly believable - unless - like you - you have already decided there is a god. In which case I am certain it will back up your convictions - no matter  the interpretation.
                              
                              You are prepared to pretend that you are reading the written word of who exactly? King James?
                              
                              Dear me.

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                  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Nice story. If this is harvest then free-will doesn't make sense and same goes with religion and prophet. Think about it, any farmer needs prophets from within crops ? besides farmer don't need to buy love from his crops as his farm is unlimited. So here prayers from crops gets scraped.

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   blake4dposted 15 years ago

   WWJD indeed.

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   lovemychrisposted 15 years ago

   WORSHIP OF THE SUN, NOT THE SON
   
   Christ warned that in the time leading up to his return, the masses would be exploited with false teachings in His name (Mat 24). The same condemnations He made of the hypocritical Pharisees in Matthew 23 can be directed toward modern Christian churches for teachings that are contrary to the scriptures (Mar 7:7, 2Jn 1:9).
   
   The Church is indistinguishable from the pagan priesthood of Babylon. The parallels fill books such as "The Two Babylons" and "The Papal Worship Proved to be the Worship of Nimrod and his Wife," ( A. Hislop.) The Catholic Church claims its authority supersedes that of the Bible, as demonstrated by the Pope's title "Holy Father" (Mat 23:9).
   
   "Vatican" translates to "prophetic serpent." The Pope wears a fish-shaped hat identical to the Babylonian Priest of Dagon, the fish-god. Cardinals dishonor Christ by covering their heads while praying (1Co 11:4).
   
   Catholics worship the pagan goddess Diana/Athena/Hecate/Semiramis/Ishtar/Isis/Ashtaroth by calling her Mary, "the Queen of Heaven" (Jer 7:18, Luk 11:27-28).
   
   Protestant denominations are quick to condemn the widespread iniquity, idolatry, and scriptural violations of the Catholic Church yet refuse to acknowledge that they are equally guilty (Joh 7:38, Mat 7:4). At least Catholics and modern pagans openly admit their defiance of the bible.
   
   Most Protestants uphold the Catholic tradition of a Sunday Sabbath, in opposition to God's fourth commandment to worship on the seventh day of the week (Saturday). Sun-day worship of the sun-god (Helios/Apollo/Lucifer) was the custom of pre-Christian Rome.
   
   PAGAN CUSTOMS AND SYMBOLS
   
   All Christians celebrate Christmas (Osiris/Nimrod's birthday, the birth of the sun-god), the modern equivalent of Rome's Saturnalia (Satan-alia). Witches sacrifice a child at midnight Christmas Eve and leech emotional energy from the Christians' "holiday spirit."
   
   The tree is a symbol of Nimrod and forbidden by God (Jer 10:12). Santa, a scrambling of "Satan," is a false god for children who usurps God's power to judge sin. (www.met.org.za, www.macquirelatory.com/Santa Is Satan)
   
   Easter is the astrological fertility celebration of Nimrod's wife, Ishtar. In pre-Christian times, the cross ("T") was an idol to represent the virginally-conceived sun-god Tammuz (Eze 8:13-14, Heb 2:16-17).
   
   The cross and the "X" symbols (as in Xmas) both represent the sun and the zodiac, as does the circular communion wafer.
   
   Church architecture is based on pagan fertility symbolism. Steeples are obelisk-shaped (phallic symbols) resting on vaulted naves (female womb). The word Church derives from the goddess Circe who represents the circular moon.
   
   *This next part relates to the link that Deborah gave*:
   
   Christ's name could not have been Jesus, as the letter "J" did not exist until about 1500 years after His resurrection. It is YASHAYAH, Hebrew for "savior" (Hos 2:16, Act 26:14, Luk 1:47, Mat 21:9). The name YASHAYAH was translated into Greek as "Iesaias" and then to "Iesus" by the Vatican.
   
   The Jewish faction helps obscure the true name of the Son by calling him "Yeshua" in Modern Hebrew. The "oo" sound came via Greek influence and is not found in ancient Hebrew, which had only one neutral vowel sound.--Will Newman
   
   *The same article also mentioned something that intimate evolution has talked about*:
   
   David Livingstone maintains that, like Judaism and Islam, Christianity has been corrupted by occultism. He says the Apostle Paul abandoned the teachings of Jesus exemplified by the book of Mathew, and replaced it with an esoteric interpretation of the occult idea of the sacrificed god dying for our sins. "As Paul's cult spread throughout the Christianized world, the Early Church was eclipsed."
   
   *And more from Newman*:
   
   "Christ told his people to repent and forsake their sinful ways (Mat 9:13). He did not command them to form a religion in his name or to build a multi-million dollar church while the poor slept on the stoop."

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      Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I do not understand how facts such as these can be ignored.
      
        I have come to these same conclusions by reading the bible only.  It is all right there wirtten in the pages of the bible if one is looking for it.
        The story of Jesus has been corrupted.
        Jesus Christ (YASHAYAH) has not been.

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   Will Bensonposted 15 years ago

   I like to avoid the religious forums but, like most hubbers, I have this morbid fascination with them. Anyway...
   
   Question: Why would a supreme being give special knowledge to a "chosen few" and condemn those who, through no fault of their own, didn't receive this knowledge (religious dogma)?
   
   If God wants people to believe in him, why not manifest himself, as in the stories of the OT?
   
   My take -- there may be a supreme being or there may not. If so, I believe he's interested in how we live our lives, not in what rituals we practice.
   
   No offense intended, just my thoughts.

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      Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with that !!!
      
        Religion took a wrong turn and a 1900 year old prophesy says that.. that will happen.

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      SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I wonder how many times God did manifest Hismelf to some, but most refuse to believe it to be true?
      
      As far as giving knowledge to a select few, His Word says he gives knowledge and wisdom to all men liberally but only if they ask for it.

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         Will Bensonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         SirDent -
         
         Good points.
         
         I just have a problem with the whole "Loving-father-throws-his-creations-into-hell" concept.
         
         As for Horus, I've heard stories of how modern religions are revised stories of earlier beliefs and there certainly are similarities. I have no opinion on ancient history and mythology since I'm not very well versed in them.

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            SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            When you say a loving Father throws His creation into hell, you misquote what is actually written.
            
            It is sin that is cast into hell. If I was to hold onto my sins and not allow God into my life and then I die, I would be cast into hell because I wanted the sin more than I wanted God in my life.

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               Will Bensonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               SirDent -
               
               Let's assume there is a force powerful enough to create the universe. Would this incredibly intelligent being create far inferior beings (us) just to test them?
               
               Would he create a place like Hell?
               
               For me, there's a big disconnect in the concept of a God with a mean streak.
               
               I believe that religious people are trying to the best of their ability to make the world better. I also believe that making the world better is what counts, not religions.
               
               Thanks.

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                  SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  God created everything and it was good. Man made the decision to not follow God's instructions. The first temptation that came along, he fell for.
                  
                  When you assume things, you speculate. We could speculate all day and night on one thing about God, but it is still not right. God does things that we do not understand and we never will in this life.
                  
                  A loving God would make a way out of the sin that man fell into.
                  
                  
                  
                  Hell was created for the devil and his angels. It was never meant for man to go there. Man decides for himself where he ends up. God made a way for man to not go there.

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            SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            All the stories that everyone spreads is a product of a book written by one Gerald Massey. Not sure when he wrote the book but it was in the early to mid 1820's.
            
            The other thread even says the info was gotten from gerald Massey.
            
            According to mythology, Horus' mother's name was Isis. She was not a virgin and Horus' father Osiris was killed and his body cut into pieces. Isis found Osiris' body parts and put him back together excpet for his penis which she did not find. She made one for him and Horus was concieved.
            
            Originally there was no mention of a virgin birth in writing nor in pictures. There is much more but that is just one thing debunked.

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               Will Bensonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Weird story...poor Osiris.  Bummer.

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   earnestshubposted 15 years ago

   

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      SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Evolution: After the big bang which was caused by umm... nothing, the universe formed. One planet (EARTH) was just far away enough from a bright star that it cooled enough to sustain life and sludge formed. When the different types of sludge formed, life happened.
      
      It was all just a freak accident with no help at all from anyone or anything. Of course when you get down to it,  everything came from absolutely nothing. Makes perfect sense doesn't it.
      
      I wonder how they tell the age of the earth. It wasn't that long ago it was in the millions of years old and now it is billions.

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      aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      The original and best... though I appreciate your efforts with photoshop!
      
      John

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         earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Never photoshopped a thing in my life, hopeless at it. This came ready made.

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         skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         You need photoshop for this ? lol

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    

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    aguasilverposted 15 years ago

    Yep, God loves you Earnest!

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       earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I hope you didn't do any damage to yourself coming up with this little gem!
       Personal attack. personal attack! Do not fear I don't report things like this, not worth bothering with
       
       Pathetic!

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          aguasilverposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Earnest, how could you interpret a simple friendly bit of humour as a personal attack, table tennis is like that, you hit the ball, and someone hit's it back to you.
          
          John

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    Will Bensonposted 15 years ago

    Anyway...there is room for everyone's viewpoints on the subject. No one has a lock on the truth.
    
    The Bible doesn't mean God exists; the suffering in the world doesn't mean he doesn't.
    
    We are all in love with our own opinions but we sometimes forget that, no matter how sure we are that we have the "absolute" answer, all we have is our opinion. (No matter how strongly held).
    
    This clip illustrates what happens when someone is sure he/she is absolutely "right."
    
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXsVKbHY_T0

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       mythbusterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Loved this video! Thanks for posting, Will Benson.

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    aguasilverposted 15 years ago

    Still a reasonable effort from someone who has just started out.!

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    Yes thank you for that Benson. The other one is very good too!
    
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF3yb1g30Io&NR=1

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    Mark Knowles  wrote
      Well - I resent the implication that I have never read it
    ====================================
           (You seem to resent a lot of things-)
    
    
    ====================================
      M.K. said ..    and I am laughing that you think you have the correct interpretation
    =================================================
       I guess you can say that a non
    interpretation is an interpretation
    =======================================
    
    
      M.K.  wrote  ..when I have seen you interpret it instead of reading what it says.
    What is actually written? Oh - you mean actual days - not trying to "interpret the meaning" and when it says "two by two" you think there was a actual boat?
    ==================================================
           I don't  "recall"  making assertions concerning
           the flood other than to say it could have happened.
           I mostly keep to the topic of prophesy. 
           Like everyone... I may have sliped up a few times and
           said something that I should not have said.
    =========================================================
    M.K. said ..It is not even slightly believable - unless - like you - you have already decided there is a god. In which case I am certain it will back up your convictions - no matter  the interpretation.
    
    You are prepared to pretend that you are reading the written word of who exactly? King James?
    
    Dear me.
    =========================================================
    
            I am not trying to convince non believers to believe
            anything.  I am attempting to show believers that read 
            the KJV of the bible some of the interpretations that I believe should be understood exactly as writen. If they say that they believe what the bible says, then they should believe what is written that Jesus said.
    I apologise if that offends you.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       No - what offends me is the 2000 years of wars caused by people showing each other how they "should" be interpreting the bible.
       It always comes to this when one of you think they have a better interpretation than everyone else.
       
       Now you are hedging though. As believers always do when questioned about the veracity of their book.
       
       If it is to be taken exactly as written - surely you believe the story of the flood? But you are saying now "it could have happened"? What happened to reading the book as it is written?
       
       Far as I know - Absolute nothing at all was written by jesus in the bible.
       
       I am not offended by you in any way Jerami. I find your beliefs ridiculous - and some what offensive - assuming you are a follower of the bible. The bible I find offensive in the extreme and am shocked that people still follow it. Although - it is fair to say - like you - no one follows all of it - they pick and choose.
       
       What else do you think I resent Jerami?

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    I have to pull myself away from the computer for a bit.
    I have to sit down and work up a couple of  estimates.
    
      Poor people gotta make a living.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Some of us poor people make our living online - hence spend all day in front of the computer

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    You are not reading what I an writing.
    
       I have never said that I believe everything that is written in the bible.
        Where did you get that from.
        I said that I believe 2nd Peter 2:10
      "Knowing this first, that no PROPHESY of scripture is of any private interpretation".
       Any statements concerning prophesy that I have ever made, I attempted to understand and express as uninterpreted as is possible.
       When doing this the many many falshoods of "THE CHURCH" is exposed.  This is why the church insists upon everyone having their right to their own Interpretation. 
       
       And by the way when I made the comment about "poor" people having to work.. I was simply stating a truth!
       I was disrespecting my self for being "poor" and not being smart enough to make a living on here.
       But if you want to be offended by that comment ??????OK   ???????

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       What makes you think I am offended? I too am a poor person. I make my living online. Which is why I am always around.
       
       But - hey - you think I resent a lot of things as well.
       
       Which CHURCH is this?

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    Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago

    So Jerami - just to get things straight
    
    You do not believe the bible was written by a god
    
    You do not believe in god
    
    You believe "some" of what the bible says
    
    But you really, really think that you have a better way of interpreting the prophecy in the bible by just reading what is written - but this does not apply to anything else in the bible.
    
    That right?

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       getitriteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       
       
       ...however, he is trying very hard to convince himself.

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    Mark Knowls said   
    So Jerami - just to get things straight
    You do not believe the bible was written by a god
    
      I believe that Ezra re wrote the OT as best as he could around 450 ish BC.
      The NT was a selection of writtings that the Church that Rome built assembled and called the "only inspired writtings" to be included in their cannon.
    ===============================================
      M.K.   You do not believe in god
    
        I believe in a higher inteligence and more powerful being than what we are. He/it has an intrest in what goes on in this plane of existence that WE are currently residing in.
      If you want to call Him/It God you may.
    =======================================
      M.K.     You believe "some" of what the bible says
    
           I would say that this is accurate.
    ================================
       But you really, really think that you have a better way of interpreting the prophecy in the bible by just reading what is written - but this does not apply to anything else in the bible.M.K.   
    
        I am saying that to ignore the prophetic timeline that is clearly stated in the book of Daniel 9:23 thru 26 is not doing justice to the prophesy as written in the scriptures.
    
       This verse as does all of prophesy of scripture has no private interpretation. 
       To believe that in not applying my own interpretation to these words of prophesy is better than all Interpretations of man?
       I suppose that I am saying that.
     
       As far as everything else that is written in the bible?
       For now I will have to let that take care of itself.
    I don't think that we can clearly understand the rest until we get prophesy right. 
       I'm still working on that.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I see. And do you think "we" can get prophesy "right"?
       
       Of course you do. Not sure what this all has to do with the fact that your ridiculous religion was stolen from a cobbled together collection of other religions.
       
       Exactly what is the point of everything you have said and why do you need to believe in a higher intelligence that has an interest in what goes on on this little flyspeck of the universe?
       
       Are we important in some way? If so - How nice for you.

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    Mark Knowles...
       I see. And do you think "we" can get prophesy "right"?
    
       
       I don't know if ya can or not?  I seriously doubt it with an attitude like this.  Do ya want to get it right?
    ==================================================
    M.K. ...
    Not sure what this all has to do with the fact that your ridiculous religion was stolen from a cobbled together collection of other religions.
    
       I do not know why you do not understand simple language ?
    or are you just looking for a button to push?
       I do not have a religion. I have a belief based upon my observations that YOU nor MYSELF are the grandest thing in the universe. I believe that there is an inteligence greater than we are.
    ===============================================
    M.K. Exactly what is the point of everything you have said ...
    
    
         As I said earlier (remember) I am talking to believers, in an attempt to discuss the posability of their seeing a diffrent view of scriptures if we stoped making our own interpretations from those things that we read in scripture. And to question those interpretations of any and all humans that tell us what we are suposed to believe that they say.
    
       Why does that bother you so much? 
       If we discussed these things we might come to a conclusion that is not as distant from yours as they currently are ???
    
      We might agree that you and I  "may not be" the grandest things in the universe????

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Yes - we agree that we are nothing special. Why doe sit bother me? What - That you think you can tell the future by reading the bible and want to teach the other believers that they are doing it wrong?
       
       I just go a step further - you think you have an answer. I do not think I have an answer.
       
       Yours is the way that causes wars.
       
       Do you have an answer for me? I think you must have with that attitude. Now tell me the answer so we can fight about it
       
       I assume you cannot be bothered to read anything I write either. There is no god. There is no such thing as prophecy and I am not arrogant enough to think I can tell the future by reading a book.                                               
       
                             You are apparently. Like I said - good for you.
       
       Still - what does any of that have to do with the thread we are on? That your ridiculous religion was stolen from an earlier one. And -  no matter how many times you tell me you do not have a religion - I say you are fooling yourself if you get your information from the bible. You have religion, Jerami.
       
       You did not think of any of this for yourself.
       
       You got it out of a religious book.

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    I am sorry  I forgot to answer the last question
    ======================================================
    Are we important in some way? If so - How nice for you
    
    
       Actually we are not so important. 
    A lot of things that are not so important are sitll nice to have until they become more trouble than they are worth.

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       tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       
       hi jerami ! LOL!!

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          Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Good morning Ms. T 
          just having my first cup of coffee.  I'll be waking up in a few.

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    Pandoras Boxposted 15 years ago

    Did they debunk it yet? I confess, I'm not reading the thread, but I'll be watching for the big announcement in the news...

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    Mark Knowls wrote   
      That you think you can tell the future by reading the bible and want to teach the other believers that they are doing it wrong?
    
    Jerami said...
    I don't recall telling the future.  I have often said that "IF" Christians are going to stand up for the bible that they should read it as it is written.
      And according to what is written in the bible all of prophesy has ben fulfilled except for a couple of them.
      I did not foretell how they were going to be fulfilled.
    
    ==========================================================
    M.K. ..   I just go a step further - you think you have an answer. I do not think I have an answer.
    
      The only answer that I think that I have is to read scripture as written if we are to swear by it. 
      kinda like the Jack and Jill story..  the book says they ran up the hill regardless of my wanting them to have ran around the hill seven times, the words in the book are still the same.
       I know that to be true!
    =================================================
    M.K. said   Yours is the way that causes wars.
    
    Do you have an answer for me? I think you must have with that attitude. Now tell me the answer so we can fight about it
    
        Does "IT" belong to me ?  Beliefs do not cause wars.
    Wars are caused by power hungry people, and hungry people that want those things that belong to others.
      These people may hide behind the name of religion.
    Yes, at the height of power of the "Holy Roman Empire" the Church did attempt to take over the world.
      This was power hungry men sitting on top of the Church that caused the wars. Power hungry men do not have to hide behind anything but they do.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       OK - Religion does not cause wars.
       OK - Beliefs do not cause wars.
       OK - Religion has not been used to control people to fight wars.
       OK - Religious beliefs do not cause conflict.
       
       Still - what is important is that you defend your religion.
       
       Right?

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          Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I believe that you know that Faith is something that everyone has. We all have free will to put that faith in anything that we want to.
             And I agree that it is not a good thing when that faith is turned over into the hands of any "Religion".
             
                    Religious people and non religious people cause wars.
                    Economics causes war. Hunger causes war.
                    the idea of ethnic cleansing causes war.
                    All kinds of predigest causes war.
          
               Religious authorities cause war
               Political leaders cause wars.
               Kings in the past has started wars over Love of a woman.
          
               I wish that there was a way of stopping wars,  I don't think that there is any way. 
              Attempting to stamp out peoples free will to have faith is not the answer

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             Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I am not trying to "stamp anything out."
             
             I am trying to have a rational discourse and point out the fact that your irrational beliefs cause wars. But - you seem intent on defending those beliefs.
             
             Getting rid of religion and nationalism by reasonable discourse and breaking down the memes we have created for ourselves is one way of starting to stop wars.
             
             This is a step in the process, which must necessarily include any and all artificial rationing of resources including that disgusting invention - money.
             
             I know, I know - an unrealistic goal - but you have to start some where and I have chosen "ridiculous faith based beliefs that belong in the bronze ages."
             
             I could just have easily chosen "racial hatred" or "central banks."
             
             One thing at a time........

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    eastelmhurstposted 15 years ago

    I'm so happy to have found this thread.  As a strict Catholic I find it sad that so many people believe all the lies that contradict the Church's claims.  Many of you seem to mean well but too many are just spouting anti.Catholic lies.  I shall be keeping track from now on.

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       Pandoras Boxposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I warned you all about vatican spies.
       
       And you guys said I was crazy...

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          Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I don't think he is a genuine Vatican Spy.

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    Mark knowls...
    I am trying to have a rational discourse and point out the fact that your irrational beliefs cause wars. But - you seem intent on defending those beliefs.
    
      Jerami said  ...back in the mid sixties I heard both sides of the racial issue speaking very similar words to each other.
    ======================================================
      M.K. said ...
    This is a step in the process, which must necessarily include any and all artificial rationing of resources including that disgusting invention - money.
     
    
    
      Jerami  wrote ... I do not wish to bebunk the belief in a supreme being.
    That would be sidesteping the issue.
       We need to have several legal analist and a couple of literary masters to read and analize what the prophesy are actually saying and much of the hysteria would be removed from Religion.
       Then and only then will you see a clear picture as to what you are actually fighting.
    
       You can not see what the tree realy looks like until the leaves fall off.  The leaves in that instance is the multitudes of "INTERPRETATIONS"
        When we can not see past centuries of interpretations, we can not see the origional message.
        By attacking Religion as a whole; It is as if you are chaseing a ghost.
       Or whipping the fog, this may seem productive; but it is not. There is comething in the background creating more fog.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Yes - I have seen you arguing with other religionists that YOU have the right god and theirs are merely misinterpretations. There  is a right god and a wrong god according to you. And some how you think you can magically get to the original message?
       
       And the ironic thing is - I am telling you what that is.

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          Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          The irony is;  it is as if we see each others mouth moving but we can't hear a dang thing the other is saying.
          
             We all got the same God. There is only one. There are just too many concepts of this one.
          Christians have the same book But no one understands it the same. Islam has one prophet but they have too many perseptions of his teachings for them all to be true.
             I'm sudgesting that we from the Christian prospective, begin trying to understand the scriptures at a place that we are told to NOT have personal interpretation.  Establish a common foundation before we begin studying those verses that personal interpretation might apply.     
          
            Why is that so radical?  Asking others to look at the same thing from a diffrent prospective.
            I thought that this is what we are suposed to do on forums such as this.
             You are doin it;  Can I do it too???

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             Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Sure - defend your ridiculous beliefs all you like. You have apparently convinced yourself they never cause conflict so - why not?
             
             Odd that you cannot see that I am not saying the same thing as you at all. I am saying we need to put down this ridiculous notion that there is a god and stop fighting about it.You are saying YOU have the correct notion of this non existent god and every one else has it wrong. But - this would never cause conflict (unless you read a history book. )
             
             There is no god. All the time people get the idea that there is - they will fight about it.
             
             This is called religion.
             
             Divisive, irrational, nonsensical, religion. Protestant v Catholic. Catholic v Gnostic. Muslim v Christian. etc etc etc.....
             
             But - take that way from you and what do you have?
             There is no god. All the time you imagine there is -= you will fight about it and feel frustrated that everyone else doesn't understand it the way you do.
             
             You have the right interpretation. You are right. I hear you perfectly Jerami. I hear exactly what you are saying. I totally understand what you keep on saying. You know what the bible says - every one else is screwing it up. You know NOT to interpret it (some of it) every one else is getting it wrong. If they would just stop interpreting it - they would understand what you know and they would know god properly. The correct God. The christian god. The King James interpreted version number 39889 correct god.
             
             "We all got the same God. There is only one. There are just too many concepts of this one."
             
             Rubbish. There is no god. See how that is why there are "too many concepts of this one"?

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                Buck Steinerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Hello Mark, I see you're still at it.

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    Jeramiposted 15 years ago

    I see the conflict... until I give up my opinion someone is going to keep coming up and telling me that my opinion has no worth compared to theirs.
       
       Thanks for showing me the light.
       As soon as I stop voicing my opinion there will be peace in the world.
       As soon as everyone stops fighting back there will be peace in the world.
       Very insightful.
     
       No matter who I talk to.. It is always the other guys that are causing the conflict.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       No. That is not what I said at all. Not sure it is worth restating it either.

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    SirDentposted 15 years ago

    The Horus hoax is just a hoax to begin with. Gerald Massey wrote a book and made many outlandish statements in his book. This is where people get so much information from. They believe what Gerald Massey wrote simply because he wrote it.
    
    There never was a parallel until Gerald Massey wrote his book.

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       Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I believe that.  It gives some people imaginary ammunition that makes a lot of noise. It might scare the birds away but doesn't bring home any meat to put on the table.

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          SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Imaginary ammunition is what atheists use against Christians. IE, there is no god!

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             Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Speaking of imaginary ammunition..............

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             getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             \
             
             This is one of the most bizarre statements I have ever read.  You don't realize just how far from reason you have drifted.

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                SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                How far have you fallen from the Lord?

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                   getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   
                   
                   SirDent,
                   
                   I think it is beyond insane when a person who believes in an imaginary being arrogantly accuses others of using imaginary ammo.  If you haven't noticed, one does not have to imagine that there is NO God.  That is self evident. 
                   
                   If nonbelievers are using imaginary ammo when they state "there is no God" why have you not fired back with absolute proof of your imaginary divine entity.  You have nothing in your arsenal except delusion--extreme delusion!
                   
                   Yes I have fallen away from "the Lord" because the Lord is an absurd concept, plus I no longer suffer from insanity.  In fact I deny that there is a Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a joke!   BLASPHEMY!

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                      SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      
                      
                      No amount of proof will suffice. They don't want to know God, so they deny Him. They deny history. Proof has been shown and they still refuse it.
                      
                      Whatsoever you sow, so shall you reap. I will not answer any more of your comments.

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                         getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         
                         
                         GOOD! You make no sense anyway.  I could just as well be talking to the wall.
                         
                         In parting, let me say, you still have offered no proof of anything. 
                         
                         Adios

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       Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       The same can be said for Moses.  He wrote a few books with no one to vouch for the contents.  Believing Gerald Massey's books are no different than believing Moses's.  One is no more factual than the other!

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    sabrebIadeposted 15 years ago

    I looked around quite a bit, and outside of Gerald Massey and those who followed his work, I don't see any evidence that Horus parallels Jesus.
    I checked out Dr. Zahi Hawass (who most people consider the greatest Egyptologist in the world) and looked up his writings on Horus and saw nothing like what Massey had written.
    Now don't get me wrong, Dr. Hawass has had more than a little controversy around him as well, but I think had he seen any parallels he would have written about it.
    Mainly because a lot of people contend that he's a media hound, and that would get him a LOT of press.
    
    The person that stirred all this up recently (as far as I can tell) is Acharya S.
    That's the pen name of D. M. Murdock and she wrote The Christ Conspiracy.
    
    If you want to get a copy of The Christ Conspiracy, you can go to the publisher's website Adventures Unlimited Press and get it there.
    While you are there, you can also check out other books they publish like:
    2012: MAYAN YEAR OF DESTINY
    ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE UNDEAD
    BIGFOOT ENCOUNTERS IN NEW YORK & NEW ENGLAND...
    
    You get my point right?
    
    Now don't get me wrong, I LOVE fringe science as much as anybody else.
    I like the paranormal, UFOs, cryptozoology, all those things.
    But you cant really use a book written by a person that was kicked out of a UFO conference for disagreeing with another speaker as...well...as Gospel.
    
    BTW, on a similar note, back in 1827 a librarian named J.B.Péres wrote a book about the parallels between the Greek Sun God Apollo and Napoleon Bonaparte, concluding that Napoleon was a myth and never existed.
    http://www.tektonics.org/lp/nappy.html

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    ceciliabeltranposted 15 years ago

    the son of god myth is a recurring phenomenon in human consciousness. It is present in all cultures.
    
    so, its probably true metaphorically speaking.

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       Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Not unless it is suggested by others.  And I'm not sure all cultures had such a concept.  Some are extinct and others have never been heard of. 
       
       Female goddesses and their daughters are probably represented somewhere down the line.  Having a better god than your competing city over in the next kingdom was a thing of pride and a cause of war in some cases, just like today.  These gods were another way to get visitors to their cities.  Sometimes the kings were gods and their sons became kings and therefore, gods themselves.
       
       More empirical and financially economic than a "recurring phenomenon in human consciousness" it seems to me.  You have to understand how superstitious these folks were.  No telling how many natural disasters are reported as miracles in the Bible.
       
       Almost any one of us could go back to the times mentioned in the bible and convince those ignorant folks we were gods.  The priest of many early civilizations were the most educated of the bunch.  They knew when the proper time to plant and hunt was.  But the more who knew this knowledge, the weaker the power the priests had over the people.
       
       It's all about power over others.  And many still fall for it.

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    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    Well said Randy. One would need to be clouded with ideology not to see that.

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    RichardSpeaksposted 14 years ago

    St. Augustine, wiser that most who have commented here including me, once wrote that miracles do not happen in contradiction to nature; they happen in contradiction to our understanding of nature. He knew that nothing supernatural exists. He pretended it did, but he knew better. The entire Church has known better since the beginning.
    
    A supernatural deity is capricious, easily angered, wrathful, and only claims to love you if you obey the rules. But that kind of god must be rebelled against, just like the Founding Fathers rebelled against King George. Many considered that blasphemy, what with the divine right of kings and all, supported by that kiss ass St. Paul, who said that rebelling against the authorities was the same as rebelling against God. I mean, really! If we had paid attention to that, there would be no US and no free speech. Thank God for Lucifer, the only character in the Bible with the balls to stand up to the Great Dictator.
    
    Is there a God? Who the hell knows? But I know this: If there is, it isn't the God of any book. It isn't a God who allows 99% of its human creation to go to hell. It isn't a God who needs blood sacrifice. And it definitely isn't a God that goes by the name of God. (For you insistent Christians, check your Old Testament. Naming God as God or Christ or Jehovah or ANY name is considered blasphemy. "Thou shalt not take the name of the lord thy god in vain" doesn't mean don't say goddamn. It means don't name the creator anything, including the proper noun God, which is actually a title, not a name. Ask any good Jew. They'll tell you that YHWH deliberately has no vowels to keep you from pronouncing a name and then being guilty of blasphemy, a crime punishable by death in the OT. See how silly all this is???)
    
    Finally, the Horus myth is as valid as the Jesus myth. Dying and rising savior gods is as old as humanity itself.

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