IF God said: Why Should I Let You Into My Heaven What Would You Say?

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   dojimonsterposted 16 years ago

   I'm not sure if God will ask that kind of question. I guess he doesn't need to do that.
   
   But, I also believe that the heaven is something that have to be "created" by man, right here on Earth. When you live in a country where everything is peacefull and you got great life (good food, good education god entertainment) and you have the freedom tobe what you want tobe (as long as it doesn't go against the law), now that what i call heaven.
   
   Hell, of course, is the opposite. If you live in Baghdad, Chernobyl or Mogadishu, then you will you know that hell does exist and it is man's  to make it dissapear.
   
   Sorry if it doesn't answer the question

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   topstuffposted 16 years ago

   Because you are merciful.

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   Inspirepubposted 16 years ago

   If someone asked me this, I would point at him and yell "This isn't God!"
   
   While I agree with Doji that Heaven and Hell are here on Earth, I have to disagree that certain nations have a monopoly on either.
   
   There are individuals living in Heaven all over the planet, and right beside them there are others living in Hell.
   
   The outer circumstances have nothing to do with whether you experience the Kingdom of Heaven.
   
   It is within.
   
   Jenny

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   dojimonsterposted 16 years ago

   No offense Mark

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   Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

   None taken. I can take it as well as I can give it. Like it says in the bible:
   
   Do unto others...... Works both ways.
   
   Thom - A pussycat maybe

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   sandra rinckposted 16 years ago

   Aren't dragons sacred and worshiped in certain countries? 
   
   Are you ever gonna share you belief with us Mark.  You got everyone captive by you, but you aren't sharing.  No fair. LOL.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      LOL
      
      I have shared some of my beliefs on one of the other threads.
      
      http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/4214?page=5
      
      But yes I will. Much of it is very personal and I am trying to think of a way of sharing some of my reasons that does not damage me in the process.

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         sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         well can you send me a pm,  I am enthusiastically fascinated by what you are keeping to yourself.  Please!!! 

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   Inertiaposted 16 years ago

   Hi,I liked the answer "because you love me",and I also think it was a god/good question,I dont know any of you but look at all you talking about it.

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   Mishaposted 16 years ago

   It's not fair. We all are dying to know

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   Inertiaposted 16 years ago

   Laughing,I learned this about dragons as a child.
   
   
   Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
   And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called honah lee,
   Little jackie paper loved that rascal puff,
   And brought him strings and sealing wax and other fancy stuff. oh
   
   Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
   And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called honah lee,
   Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
   And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called honah lee.
   
   Together they would travel on a boat with billowed sail
   Jackie kept a lookout perched on puffs gigantic tail,
   Noble kings and princes would bow wheneer they came,
   Pirate ships would lower their flag when puff roared out his name. oh!
   
   Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
   And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called honah lee,
   Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
   And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called honah lee.
   
   A dragon lives forever but not so little boys
   Painted wings and giant rings make way for other toys.
   One grey night it happened, jackie paper came no more
   And puff that mighty dragon, he ceased his fearless roar.
   
   His head was bent in sorrow, green scales fell like rain,
   Puff no longer went to play along the cherry lane.
   Without his life-long friend, puff could not be brave,
   So puff that mighty dragon sadly slipped into his cave. oh!
   
   Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
   And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called honah lee,
   Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
   And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called honah lee.

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    sandra rinckposted 16 years ago

    I went back and read the link you left.  Peter and I don't not share the same awareness of God. 
    
    It seems to me that the universal idea of God is a weak mental God, the God I think about exist or doesn't exist ourside our universal region.  I haven't the slightest idea what it actually is,  I only know that I saw something, it either manifested here, or it came through some parallel, or cross roads if you will, or worm hole, or whateva, but whatever it is or was, was definatly not of this world>

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    Thom Carnesposted 16 years ago

    Well, you might decide to refer to Mark as "Puff" from now on - but I'm certainly not going to!

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    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    That was actually one of my favorite records as a child and I still have the 45 somewhere.

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    Inertiaposted 16 years ago

    Well I wasn't calling anyone a dragon,I just passed a childhood song.It actually says alot about dragons if you read between the lines.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       It says a lot about smoking dope if you read between the lines too
       
       It was some one else who called me a dragon LOL

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    Inertiaposted 16 years ago

    No,I mean,other than the dope,like how can nations fear him?strings and sealing wax,like what was he binding?

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       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I got it - I was joking. And pointing out the other meanings of that song. LOL

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    Inertiaposted 16 years ago

    I was laughing when I posted it,still giggling now,glad to know that I hurt no one.lol
    

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    sandra rinckposted 16 years ago

    I swear, I never inhaled.  LOL!!!

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    Inertiaposted 16 years ago

    Laughing,thank you for the laughter,it was good medicine.lmao

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    Graceful Guardianposted 16 years ago

    I want to start by saying,sorry to mark,I never called you a dragon,I said you spoke like one.And I still think we have no understanding between us,and that might be my fault.I took the night to think about it,and have come to the conclusion that there is probably no wrong answer.
    
    The best answer though that I saw like others before me,was,"Because you love me".
    
    So again sorry,for it was not becoming to squable like turkeys.There is no healing in it.

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       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       No apology needed. In fact, you are pretty accurate I am always questioning both my own and other's words, feelings and "beliefs."
       
       It is not your fault. I do understand your answer and was looking for a less "standard," way to say it. Your answer is the "right," answer as you understand it. And the other believers will understand as being the "right,' answer.
       
       But when you say, "I am unworthy," you do not mean that you are unworthy. You mean that you have elected to accept Jesus as your personal savior and refuse to "murder," him if that means breaking any of the 10 commandments. (which most Christians do on a daily basis.)
       
       As I understand it - According to your beliefs, Jesus died on the cross to allow those who are "unworthy," to be received into the kingdom of heaven. Therefore you say you are unworthy, not because you believe you are unworthy (which you are - but for different reasons than you think) but because this is the "right," answer.
       
       I was seeking a genuine answer from you that makes sense outside of this self-serving paradox.
       
       I will still say though that I am worthy. I leave it to you to interpret that how you will.
       
       And as to the original argument with SirDent, who also says he is unworthy for the same reasons - This thread was originally started in the politics forum and moved here. I made a joke of the fact that my first response seemed silly if you didn't know that and we were having a joke about it. SirDent came in guns blazing to question why we were making fun of such a serious question. (Which was posted by a religious spammer).
       
       Still waiting for an apology by the way, SD.
       
       This question was also posted by some one who knows the "correct," answer.
       
       I am still unworthy.

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          SirDentposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Below is my very first response in this thread. I see no guns blazing.
          
          
          
          I asked for a thought out response is all. If you want to really get into a discussion about who is or is not worthy I can do that. I may even learn a thing or two. Of course it can go both ways. Maybe you can learn a thing or two.

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          Graceful Guardianposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             
          
          Sorry new to quotes
          
          Well we have an agreement,I like that,and I understand what you say.There is no wrong answer.You are worthy,I might be worthy,in some of the ways you stated.So all is good.

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    Graceful Guardianposted 16 years ago

    I guess you have nothing to say,thats ok.I think that this was a good question,thanks for posting it.

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    Inertiaposted 16 years ago

    I agree good question,for we are to question all things,this is how knowledge grows.

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    Inertiaposted 16 years ago

    Well have a good day,signing off

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    ripplemakerposted 16 years ago

    Mark, for some reason I understand you.   
    Yes we are all worthy.
    Unless we are not.
    

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       Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       And it does not really matter at the end

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    SirDentposted 16 years ago

    I am wondering if I should start a new thread, or change the question posed in this one.

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    virtuallymaggieposted 16 years ago

    I would say if YOU don't already know the answer to that question...then I'm screwed anyway!

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       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       LOL - That's the best answer yet.

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    sandra rinckposted 16 years ago

    I would say...How can I be so sure you are God, I mean, the Christains said you would apear as an angel of light and all, so I am just a little suspicious, you know, you could let me in and all, but why are asking?  Is this a trick? LOL.  If I answer yes, will you send me to Hell for being selfish?  LOL

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    SirDentposted 16 years ago

    I'll change the question here.
    
    Why should God allow you to enter into heaven?

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       mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       God is dying to unite with you.
       When you have become desireless he welcomes you with love.
       
       Like Krishan says-When we finally come to our senses we never return to this material
       world this painfull playground we mistakenly call home.
       
       Poet Mohit.K.Misra

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    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Cause we are one

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       SirDentposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Can you explain this please?

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       ripplemakerposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Misha, INDEED we are one.   I like that. 
       In fact, that is our final song in the musical that we will be bringing to Taiwan.

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       Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Oh, I gave mine long ago, somewhere closer to the start of the thread .

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    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Yep, I'm starting from the premise that we were not only created in God's image, but we (everyone of us) are part of God, pretty much like a piece of hologram..
    
    Hold on, I'll find the link
    
    Here it is - it pretty much explains my current point of view http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/4082#post32925

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       SirDentposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I read that post you linked. I am not sure I understand but I think I do. What happens when a piece of the hologram is lost?

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    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Well, I think it can't get lost. As a part of the whole, always connected and contained - it just can't.
    
    Thinking that God can lose something assumes that there is a part of the Universe external to him. It also requires assumption that God is not perfect and almighty.
    
    I don't think such assumptions are viable.

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       SirDentposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Let me try this. You take a child who leaves his family and goes off on his own. He never contacts them to let them know where he is. He dies in an auto accident and is buried cause no one knows he has family elsewhere. Even though he is a part of the family as a whole, he is now lost.

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          Inspirepubposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          You don't need to contact God to let Him know where you are - he always does.
          
          It's like the family has telepathy - they would be waiting at the site of the auto accident to collect him.
          
          It is impossible to "lose" a part of yourself. You can ignore it, deny it, pretend you don't have it, but it is always there.
          
          Like a drop of rain returning to the ocean, we all merge with God - actually it's more like we are waves on the surface of the ocean - if you look across the tops of the waves, they look like separate entities, but they are are still and always connected to the ocean, and part of it.
          
          For someone to be "lost" from God, there would have to be a part of the universe devoid of God that those people could go to.
          
          There isn't.
          
          Jenny

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             SirDentposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             If your right hand offends you cut it off. Jesus Himself made that statement according to the Bible. Can God be in a place but the place yet be devoid of God?

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                Inspirepubposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                I don't see how.
                
                Being "lost" is a one-sided phenomenon - only the human ego thinks it is separate. God never suffers from that delusion.
                
                Jesus made that statement to stress how important it is not to let destructive influences hang around. The process of surrendering one's ego feels like cutting off a limb, or even like dying, but it is essential to first "lose" something (our separate identity) to return to unity with the Divine.
                
                This is why it is referred to as being "born again".
                
                God knows you were never gone. You only thought you were gone.
                
                Jenny

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                   SirDentposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                   I just see things different than you do. God will not force someone to stay attached to Him if they want to leave.

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                      Inspirepubposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                      It's not about force, SirDent. God doesn't force.
                      
                      It's just that you can't really leave something that is Infinite. The Infinite has no edge, so you can't go beyond it.
                      
                      Of course, you are free to fantasise that it has an edge, and that you have left it, or that it doesn't exist at all, or that other people are leaving it ...
                      
                      But that is fantasy.
                      
                      God allows you to fantasise that you are special, and that because of some thing you say or do or think, God will treat you differently from others.
                      
                      But that is fantasy.
                      
                      God allows you to feel small, separate, lost, and lonely.
                      
                      But that, too, is fantasy.
                      
                      When the Light shines, fantasy is swept away, and there is only the Truth, the Way, and the Life.
                      
                      The Light shines for everyone.

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                      Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                      This is why I call myself an atheist. This god does not exist. This god cannot exist. If you are using the word god for what I think you are, this cannot be. There is no breaking attachment. There is no forcing an attachment. There is no leaving. There is no god.

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                         Peter M. Lopezposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                         and
                         
                         I think this is simply a semantics problem.  Obviously no one can escape the presence of an omnipresent God.  But, I don't think that is what SirDent is saying.

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                            SirDentposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                            You are right Peter. There is a place that God will not be and that is in the heart of those who don't want Him.

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                         Graceful Guardianposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                         But then you said in another post "I am Worthy", does this mean you are really undecided of the issue and are just looking for a reason to believe?

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                            Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                            No, I think you missed one of the points I was trying to make. What I am doing is seeking a vocabulary that makes sense to both myself and people such as yourself without resorting to quoting scripture The moment I do that, people assume I believe, or I am undecided. I have decided and been fairly clear as to what I believe. There is no god.
                            
                            Every time I make a reference to the contents of the bible, or use the words and interpretations of the bible to make a point, I am accused of believing or being undecided, because there is an assumption that because I have read and studied the bible, I should believe. LOL Nothing could be further from the truth.
                            
                            Despite what some have said, the bible is available to all. Believers, unbelievers and outright antagonists.

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                               Graceful Guardianposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                               Mark Knowles wrote:

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                               sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                               LOL, I was having a bad day/week. 

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                   SirDentposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                   I am responding regarding what I made bold above. If everything is God and/or with God how can there be destructive influences?

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                      Lifebydesignposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                      It's like a comparison, if we can't experience destruction and negative influences, how will we know when it's constructive and good and so strive for it and choose it? black/white, knowledge/ignorance, day/night. The choices and freewill are ours. To make the decision obvious ('Hey there, its God speaking listen to me people') would negate the freedom of freewill that we've been given. So in making a decision you want to make sure you have the right information.
                      Anyway, to go back to your question why would God let me in heaven? There's no quarantee I believe it would depend on the choices I make here in this life. I believe though I can appeal to His mercy and forgiveness, and meantime I keep working on making my case a strong one for access.

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    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Oops, now I see where I lost you.
    
    Give me a little while to try and put things together, and I'll get back to you with clearer explanation of my thoughts.

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    sandra rinckposted 16 years ago

    It's all good Misha, you have a "Jesus" heart,  everyone goes to Heaven.    Why because I love you, you love, me God loves us and Sir Dent too and cause I asked God already if everyone can go, and God gave me a big loving thumbs up, and said, "that is why I love you soooooooo much." 

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    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    LOL Sandy you are the best I still owe explanation of "a part and the whole at the same time" concept to SirDent, though

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    futonfraggleposted 16 years ago

    Wow Jenny, very concise. I totally understand where you and Misha are coming from.

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    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Thanks Jenny, you always give a hand when I need it
    
    SirDent, I can't say it any better than Jenny did.

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    sandra rinckposted 16 years ago

    I think, Sir Dent, that you entire outlook on Jesus and God would change if you believed and prayed to God, that all man would be saved.  Know that all prayers are answered, because you said, whatever you ask will be granted, and believe that it will. 
    
    So I prayed, I prayed with all my heart and soul that all man will be saved. and you know what, if you tell me that God will not, whatso ever answer this prayer and grant that all man shall be saved, then God is a liar. 
    
    Life is easier if you can just accept that God will save everyone.  I made that wish to God the one above all, and I know he keeps his promise.  He promised whatever you ask you shall recieve, and I asked and I know I will recieve.

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       patkagmakposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Deleted
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          Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Hmmmm...Not sure why you are taking part in such a discussion then?

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          Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Why are you speaking then?
          
          Proven himself capable LOL
          
          You like that God is the eternal judge. You must have been following the rules and be pretty sure you are going to be saved then. No surprises for you huh?
          
          What do you mean by saved anyway?
          
          Or did you just drop by to tell us how it is?

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    Inertiaposted 16 years ago

    Maybe in thought this is why there are so many threads in the mother thread of parallel universes,so that you may chose one thing but in the end,you are not lost you are found when you chose to return to the center/God.

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    Graceful Guardianposted 16 years ago

    Well have a good day all!

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    Inspirepubposted 16 years ago

    In this context, of course, there is no actual destruction, merely the destructive illusion of separateness. Jesus exhorts us to "cut off" anything which offends our sense of connection, even if that something is so close it seems to be a part of us. Of course, again, you don't actually "cut" anything actually "off", since we are all one. It's a metaphorical statement.
    
    In this case, since you are insisting that actual separateness and complete annihilation of a part of God is possible, you would qualify as a "destructive" influence. You are trying to convince us that destruction of souls is possible, and that God does it.
    
    However, there is a place in God's Universe for people who do that. I, myself, wouldn't cut you off. I personally think the whole reactive "cut it off" conversation is either a misrepresentation of what Jesus actually said, or a record of Jesus having a bad day.
    
    Given that Jesus also said a lot of other, much more tolerant and inclusive things, I am inclined toward reading this as a later misinterpretation.

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       SirDentposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       And where might that place be or what might it be called?
       
       Jesus forgave sins and tolerated sinners, but He never said sin was good. Lots of people use the woman caught in the act of adultery to try and prove that Jesus tolerates sin, but they miss what He tells her afterward. He said, "Go and sin no more." He forgives and will forget sins, but we must not go and sin more.
       
       If this is not what you mean please enlighten me to what you mean by tolerance of Jesus.

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          Inspirepubposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Actually, Sir Dent, when I said "people who do that", I was referring to people like you.
          
          Even though you display intolerance, judgementalism, and superiority, I believe there is a place for you. I believe that you will be forgiven. I believe that you will be one with God, just like everyone else, even though you are clearly bent on spending a large chunk of your life preaching fear and separateness.
          
          The world needs people who preach fear and separateness, just as much as it needs people who preach love and unity.
          
          There is perfection in complexity.

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    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    SirDent -
    
    Some one asked me why I do not believe in god and I have to say, your interpretation of what consists of god is one of those reasons.
    
    Especially when people start to suggest that not only is there a place god will not be, it is dependent on a particular behavior from myself. Such as suggesting that by not following a set of rules, I am saying I do not want Him. This immediately brings into question the omnipresence of god, and his loving and accepting all people as they are.
    
    My 10-year-old brain could not cope with such a massive contradiction, and that's around the time I decided there was no such thing as god.

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       SirDentposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       That is your right and choice to do so, Mark. I have never attempted to take away anyone's rights or freedom of choice.

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          Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          No, but you have suggested that making certain choices will cause god to leave me. I am not scared, because your god does not exist.
          
          What I really meant to say was "Thank you for showing me the way. You have helped convince me there is no god." I feel much better.

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    Inertiaposted 16 years ago

    I think it should be talked about,that is how knowledge increases,that is how we make choices, if we have no knowledge on the subject we can not understand the hype.I never found a conversation on the father/God that didn't have more answers to look for after it was once asked.

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    Graceful Guardianposted 16 years ago

    I also believe that God should be talked about,you can never learn enough,for there is always more to learn.
    
    Now I will leave you to your discussions for I seem to have a knack of quieting.Have a good day all.

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    Graceful Guardianposted 16 years ago

    I'll check back tomorrow,for I am limited on my cpu time.

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    Inertiaposted 16 years ago

    I understand what you are saying.Like this forum conversation,Sometimes talking can make an unbeliever believe,and some times it can make a believer not believe.Kind of ?

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       Inspirepubposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Sometimes people who call themselves believers don't actually believe.
       
       They have just used religion to move the boundary of their fear so they feel personally safe, and can project the "danger" as a problem for "those who don't believe".
       
       True believers have no fear, for themselves or for others, because they know we are all forever and always safe.
       
       For those who REALLY believe, there is no terrible fate after death - not for anyone.
       
       Perfect love casteth out fear.
       
       Jenny

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    ripplemakerposted 16 years ago

    Hi Jenny, what you say is so true.  Separateness and fear have caused many people to believe in a God who condemns...which is very contradictory when we say God is love...pure and unconditional. 
    
    And yet again, there is perfection in the imperfection....as you say in all its complexities. 
    I realized that when we stop fearing, then we can start truly living.

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    Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years ago

    By the way I like your answer Inspirepub

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    Graceful Guardianposted 16 years ago

    Well that didn't work,so I will post my thoughts straight out.
    
    Thank you For clearing the air and saying you are an anti-christ and an anti-god person.This leaves me room to say from a believers point of view that the seed of such an evil doer is not to be remembered or taken to heart or taken to mind or taken to spirit.
    
    And for one full moment of time there is total understanding between us.
    
    Now I also know that this will not win me any fans or such but I truly ain't out for them,And I understand you have greatness in your anti-god community,so this means them as well unless they are tring to find god,and not tring to take any from him.
    
    Thank you for your truth.

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       sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Do you believe that people who don't believe in God or Christ are evil doers?  If Mark is an "enemy" aren't you supposed to show them love anyways?

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          Inertiaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Do you love god or anti-gods?

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             Inertiaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

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          Graceful Guardianposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Well if I did not love my enemy I would not have said thank you,but the spreading of evil and that is what they are talking and trying to make more unbelievers,that is wrong,and I had to state that,I will not take the words to heart,mind or spirit.

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    Inertiaposted 16 years ago

    If you truly believe in God,nothing can sway your belief,and that is the truth,not letting evil into the mind was said in some form by all believers,for evil has many guises and he will take the very elect,so watch therefore that none make you stumble.Be steadfast and strong of heart.

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48. 0

    Graceful Guardianposted 16 years ago

    Men have been trying to tell about god,before the scriptures,and before men took the words and made many versions of what they thought god said,they are only messengers of the word,and sice the dawn of time they have been persecuted in one way or another by the unbelievers.

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       sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       It is more like persecution for the belief in God, that doesn't fit what one feels is true.  You should go back and re-read what Mark says about God. 
       
       If his disbelief is because of the lack of proof whether in the behaviors of people who call them selfs believers or lack of proof therof, then why is he to blame or why would he be dambed by the actions of those who believe to push him to a non-belief in God. 
       
       I do see what you mean by not taking it to heart though.  Your right, we shouldn't take it to heart, but I don't believe that a non belief in God is spreading evil. 
       
       I think it is more like people who believe in God using Gods name vainly to aquire control, as if by making one believe will win you points with God.

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49. 0

    Graceful Guardianposted 16 years ago

    You can not serve two masters for you will either love one and scorn the other.

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    knolyourselfposted 16 years ago

    Actually I serve many masters and don't mind a bit, 'cept not those I would scorn.

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